Ultimatum

[Jessica1983]

That's it I have to make a choice now I'm due to start counciling just waiting for my appointment to come through for my first session but my wife has seid if I can't stop were finished she can't cope with it anymore on any level

[Jenniferathome]

Your wife needs to join you at that appointment. She doesn't understand that she is asking the equivalent of "don't have blue eyes" or "don't lose your hair."

[Shiny]

Maybe you should suggest that your wife is the one who needs counselling? In my 50 year journey with this "condition" or "hobby" and nearly everyone else who's a member of this site knows as well, you have a better chance of changing your eye color or blood type than you have of banishing this particular affliction. This is something we're all stuck with, you live with it. If your wife can't come onboard with it, that's her problem, not yours.

[Mykaa]

I can relate to some degree to both sides of the fence, but if she truly cares about you I'd think there would be some want to understand you and like Jennifer says she needs to come with you, anyone who does this has to see at some point it doesnt go away. I know for my own happiness I finally understood this.

[Meghan4now]

Jessica,

Sorry to hear this. I know it's difficult, and there is some sympathy for spouses that feel deceived or angry about crossdressing. I have also received some push back.

But an ultimatum is a challenge, and usually backfires on the one issuing it. Maybe not immediately, but down the road. Is she really that uncompromising? Is she willing to live in a relationship with a serious sense of resentment? Are you? Any idea why this is the last sraw? Is it really even about dressing, or is it other factors, and this is an easy excuse. You both need to confront yourselves, and not so much each other. Remember the direction the relationship takes is BOTH of your choices, not just yours, not just hers.

Good luck.

[Jessica1983]

I told her about 3 years ago and acceptance has gone down more along the way it's not her fault she wants a man not some one who is both I should have come clean at the start she is very open to others just not her husband being one it's hard I have to kids as well so I don't want to leve them to I will ask her about joint council it may help thanks for listening

[Alice Torn]

For every story about a wife accepting this, there seems to be one or more about barely tolerating it, and one like your story. Still single at 62, here, never found an accepting lady in my age range. Hoping she will agree to go to the counseling too.

[JeanTG]

Joint counselling will probably be necessary. There are two factors here: one, she has to recognize as Jennifer said, she is asking you to "not have blue eyes". The other is that sexuality is pretty deeply imprinted on our souls, as are our sexual likes and dislikes. Accepting you totally as femme in a sexual relationship, isn't likely to work for her either. And it's just as much you asking her not to have "blue eyes". What turns her off, turns her off, and there's not much you can do about that. So it becomes a case of "it's not all about me", and learning to respect each others' boundaries. If you want the marriage to last, you need to be the man she married. If she wants the marriage to last, she needs to allow you an outlet be it DADT, or panties only or whatever. She also needs to learn to trust you all over again because apparently you kept it from her for years. You need to both work this out, and then you need to respect those boundaries scrupulously; both of you will have to compromise. There are times in life when it's appropriate to step on the brake pedal before hitting the wall. This is one of them.

[Stephanie47]

From reading your previous comments on this site you would like to be able to stop wearing women's clothing because of you wife's non acceptance. It's not uncommon for a woman to be accepting and even supportive of gays, lesbians and transgender men and women, but, NIMBY, not in my back yard. I'm approaching 70, and, I thought I would be able to stuff my desires into the box of women's clothing and put it in the back of the closet. It did not work. I suspect it will not work for you either.

I hope you're not approaching counseling with the goal of shedding any and all desires to cross dress. I think counseling is fine to sort out who you really are and to live with it. I think your wife is approaching counseling with the idea your desires need to be broken, like training a dog not to pee in the house. Go for several sessions alone, but, then have your wife also attend. She needs to become informed so she can make a decision based on knowledge.

You cannot stuff the genie back in the bottle once she is out of it.

[Molly James]

Hi Jessica,

Sorry to hear of you being given this ultimatum - it is one I dread myself to be honest. Here's hoping the counselling does the trick & your wife begins to understand this isn't something you can choose to switch on or off.

Molly.

[Jessica1983]

Thanks again we have a lot of stress on us because one of the children has special needs and is hard work but other than this we don't have any other problems so it's not that she's useing it as a easy way out if I stopped that would make it better but I've tryed
That's why I'm going to try the counciling first I don't get to dress often only maybe once a month when there all out but I think about it all the time i have tryed compromise but that dosent work it's just the thought of it makes here unhappy some times if she thinks I've been dressing she's unhappy

- - - Updated - - -

I would like to thank u all for your help and listening

[Katey888]

Jessica - I feel for you, hun, I really do... :hugs:

I hope you can convince your wife to try a joint session - it may help, but it may not...

By the tone of what you've said I get the feeling this isn't going to be an easy process for you - if you possibly can, be prepared for a lengthy process of counselling and the possibility that there might not be a happy ending for both of you at the end of that process... In which circumstance, you have to think of yourself and your children. Do you have any other support available? I'm thinking of a local support group that might help you find something of what this means to you...?

It may seem negative, but "Prepare for the worst and hope for the best" isn't always a bad way of approaching these sort of times...

Fingers crossed for you... :bighug:

Katey x

[Teresa]

Jessica,
It sounds like your wife's outburst is a spur of the moment comment, It's what she would prefer to happen but underneath she probably realises it's not possible.
No counsellor is ever going to attempt to make you stop, you can't change the fact that we're wired differently , many were born like it, we have to accept that fact and come to terms with it before you wife can begin to.
I was in gender counselling with Relate which was closed down through an overspend so you are lucky if you have NHS funding, I wouldn't do it any other way with my wife's lack of acceptance .
Make the most of the sessions and be totally honest without holding anything back, they are there to help you so give them all the help you can.
At the moment you can do no more to appease your wife, you know the outcome if you try and stop dressing, all you can do is be as suppotive as possible as a husband and father. I do feel for you, I have an autistic granddaughter so I I know how difficult it can become.

Also don't be afraid to come to the forum and vent or rant most of us have been in similar situations so a few kind supportive words can go a long way.

[JenniferR771]

Jessica,
I had a similar ultimatum 15 years ago. I went to the counselor, but he was in the same clinic as my wife's counselor..and...he had a similar viewpoint. Essentially, that I was a sexual deviant and needed to be cured. He told me to purge. But he knew almost nothing about cd--he borrowed books from me. Later I shopped around on counselor's websites and found a better counselor. And later we found a joint counselor. He was not much help. Look at the websites of all the counselors in your area and read between the lines very carefully. You don't want old school guys.

[Shelly Preston]

Hi Jessica

Ultimatiums are never a good thing as they normally dont work

Does your wife know you are going to counselling ? If she does, she may be thinking this will give you the answers on how to stop. I would think the counsellor will suggest your wife either speaks with them on there own or with you both at some point. Hopefully this will give her a better understanding of your needs.

[Rachael Leigh]

Unfortunately many women can't cope with our desires or our choices or even if this is part of us it makes it even more difficult because most just won't agree that we can't stop.
I have tried to help mine understand but in the long run I just don't think she will and you know what so be it I've got a lot of other things in my life I don't get either it's life and we just move on. I hope she can somehow accept at least a small part of this for you and it will improve for you

[Tracii G]

So she is at the point of accusing you of dressing even if you haven't ??
That sounds like she is trying to pick a fight IMO and if you say you haven't she will say you are lying and if you say yes well you are in trouble.You can't win either way is what I'm saying and she is guilt tripping or playing you.
Sure sounds like she thinks YOU have a problem not her.

[ReineD]

I agree with Jennifer. It would be nice if your wife went along with you. This would help her to recognize this is an issue for both of you to tackle (reach a compromise) rather than just have you stop entirely. Also, if your wife thinks that the crossdressing turns men into women, she might benefit from speaking with a professional who can explain the difference between the crossdressing and transsexualism or gender fluidity.

I hope you don't mind but I saw a post you made some years ago where you seemed obsessed with the CDing in a way that would indicate you had trouble achieving balance. Even if you don't dress frequently, if you think about it all the time your wife may feel the pull away from the family. If this is the case, it could be what your wife objects to the most. Maybe to her, the CDing is something that is so powerful that it takes her husband's attention away from her and the family. I may be wrong, of course, but if this is your wife's objection, you would need to find a way to balance it all in your mind, and your wife would need to recognize that you need some time and space to crossdress but that this needn't take away from your willingness to engage in being a husband and father.

On the other hand, some people are against the CDing for religious reasons and if this is the issue then I'm afraid that religious objection is the hardest thing to combat.

[Meghan4now]

Sure sounds like she thinks YOU have a problem not her.

Uhhhh, I am pretty sure that this is the general attitude by most muggles, even if they are tolerant! Beside the fact that most people think that about most disagreements!

[Jessica1983]

Hi thanks again I've made her look bad here sorry for that it was not what I wanted to do she knows it is both of are problems and has been trying to accept it but feels she can't not it's not out of the blue I did think it would come to this I will start the counciling but spoke to them today and can't start for acouple of months so I'm going to try private and once I get started I will see if she will join me

[JenniferR771]

It happens. Sure--she married a masculine man and wants to be with a man. However, you married a pretty woman. Now, there is a good chance that her hair is shorter, makeup is rare, she is 10 pounds heavier and she owns more jeans than you. Is it possible you have more heels, prettier dresses and more pantyhose? An ultimatum is a negotiating position. She wants counseling. Hopefully she will soon be educated about cding. Perhaps she will understand it better, and appreciate you as a person. And you her. Play nice. Find a counselor who is gay.

[Teresa]

Jessica,
It's very hard trying to work round your wife and not make her look bad, I had this problem with my counselling sessions, My wife just told me it's my problem and for me to sort it out. This is very difficult when they don't want to be involved or talk about it, I felt I couldn't move forward because I kept hitting a brick wall. It's always been the reason why I wanted to know as much about my CDing as possible , I could try and fully understand it myself so I could come to terms with it and accept myself. If I then could talk to her I could at least explain it. It turns out that the best thing I did was to go out dressed to a social group, I think it proved to her that it wasn't something I was making up. If I had the courage to go out the door dressed and drive to meet other members of the TG community in a public place like a hotel then it must be something strong enough to overcome any fears I had of looking like a woman.
She is also far more accepting of my shopping , I asked if she would help in anyway but she refused, again knowing I have the courage and confidence to do that has made her realise that I'm prepared to do that to satisfy my CDing needs.

Like most Cders this doesn't happen overnight, it takes a few steps forward and often a few backward ones. She may eventually do what your wife said and tell me she's had enough. We did nearly separate and she realised what she was losing but we both discovered how much it was going to hurt us and the rest of the family, she needed my support as the husband and father and now grandfather. I will add that it's not easy, that's still true and I'm twice your age.

[NicoleScott]

That's it I have to make a choice now

No, you don't. It's her ultimatum so it's her choice to do what she threatened, or not..

[Sometimes Steffi]

When my wife first discovered that I was a CD, she told me to see a therapist and "get fixed".

Fortunately for our marriage, our minister told her it was no big deal, that it was just a form of arousal. As I've said here many times, we still have a DADT relationship 9 years later, but at least the minister talked her off the edge of the cliff, so to speak. We saw a therapist together for a few months, and decided he wasn't helping. I then saw a therapist on my own for several years. But the main thing that therapy accomplished was to empower me and absolve me of guilt. Great for me; not so great for my wife.

[MelanieAnne]

but my wife has seid if I can't stop were finished she can't cope with it anymore on any level

So here is the burning question: Can you give it up for the rest of your life? If you can, you will be the first!

Women who give ultimatums are accustomed to getting their own way. What will be the next ultimatum? You only have one life to live. I'll leave it there.

[DianeInMilwaukee]

I guess I must be one of the lucky ones. My wife knows all about me, it was actually the first thing I told her about when we met. She's ok with my femme side, although she's never seen me dressed. I don't want to push the issue though.

[marlacd]

I sat here mulling this over. Just for a moment, think about your wife wanting to become a trans-man. Suppose she started doing the changes necessary to become one. But we stayed male. The prospects aren't very appealing, once you wrap your mind around it.

Most women, (Or at least all of those I've ever met in my life) have this idea that if they had some sort of mental breakdown, or contracted cancer that would make them loose certain parts, we'd stick by them, and help them deal with the aftermath. They, I believe do expect that from us.

But us having identity issues? No, that's not acceptable. We're supposed to be strong, and hide our disappointment. And, just because you showed mental weakness, we'll just heap a bit more on you, so you can really feel miserable. Because you didn't want to be a strong man.

Yup, this is a can of worms that nobody wanted to open.

[DianeInMilwaukee]

I sat here mulling this over. Just for a moment, think about your wife wanting to become a trans-man. Suppose she started doing the changes necessary to become one. But we stayed male. The prospects aren't very appealing, once you wrap your mind around it.

Most women, (Or at least all of those I've ever met in my life) have this idea that if they had some sort of mental breakdown, or contracted cancer that would make them loose certain parts, we'd stick by them, and help them deal with the aftermath. They, I believe do expect that from us.

But us having identity issues? No, that's not acceptable. We're supposed to be strong, and hide our disappointment. And, just because you showed mental weakness, we'll just heap a bit more on you, so you can really feel miserable. Because you didn't want to be a strong man.

Yup, this is a can of worms that nobody wanted to open.


That's why that even though my wife is accepting, I don't have any plans to let her meet my feminine alter-ego. It would change the way she sees me.

[ReineD]

Most women, (Or at least all of those I've ever met in my life) have this idea that if they had some sort of mental breakdown, or contracted cancer that would make them loose certain parts, we'd stick by them, and help them deal with the aftermath. They, I believe do expect that from us.

But us having identity issues? No, that's not acceptable.

You need to compare apples with apples.

I'm guessing there are as many wives who would stay with husbands who have mental breakdowns or penile/prostate cancer, as there are husbands who would stay with wives who have mental breakdowns or breast/uterine cancer.

Identity issues are entirely different. Sexual and gender identity are fundamental building blocks of who we are as humans and it is very difficult to change one's sexual attraction. This doesn't mean that wives cannot accept, but the ones who do need to be appreciated, and the extent to which they can accept needs to be respected.

[MelanieAnne]

That's why that even though my wife is accepting, I don't have any plans to let her meet my feminine alter-ego. It would change the way she sees me.
Absolutely! It's that picture of you dressed as a woman that would forever be etched in her brain.

[Jessica1983]

Hi thank you all for your help I have a lot to think about roll on therapy

[Jenny22]

That's it I have to make a choice now I'm due to start counciling just waiting for my appointment to come through for my first session but my wife has seid if I can't stop were finished she can't cope with it anymore on any level

Hang in there, Jessica! Ultimatums sometimes really back-fire on the giver. If you put her feet to the fire, she may agree to at least a DA/DT agreement, not to lose her life partner and the father of her children. Hugs!

[marlacd]

You need to compare apples with apples.


Identity issues are entirely different. Sexual and gender identity are fundamental building blocks of who we are as humans and it is very difficult to change one's sexual attraction. This doesn't mean that wives cannot accept, but the ones who do need to be appreciated, and the extent to which they can accept needs to be respected.

I agree with you on that. Now, lets go one step further. Obviously CDing ruins sexual attraction. My ex ruined the attraction I had for her. Instead of being the small cute blonde that was agreeable, she became a belligerent, mouthy, redhead that put on a hundred plus pounds, all before she had any sort of inkling that I was a CD. I had my urges parked and under control for 18 years prior to her changing. I might have handled the weight, but not the red hair. I personally couldn't stand it on her. I never had any attraction towards redheads, going back as far as when I started liking girls. In talking with her about it, in her words, I was supposed to put up with it. Everyone else said it looked good on her. So, my opinion didn't matter, as far as she was concerned.

[Lee Andrews]

I'm sad for you Jessica. I hate reading these posts and I can't imagine what is like to have one levelled in my direction. The closest I've come is a very nice "can you cool it for a bit" from my SO.

[xNicolex]

:( This is really sad, you have to be you if you suppress your femme side you'll end up miserable, counsellors, quacks, shrinks, they are all the same if we crossdressers dont understand why we feel the need to do what we do then how can they? do what you feel is right not because someone is forcing your hand. good luck.

[char GG]

Hopefully, you wife will join you in your appointment.

Could there be more to the story than your wife just pronouncing that she "can't cope anymore"? Did something happen? Typically there is some kind of catalyst that causes someone to blow. Obviously I don't know you or your wife but you may want to explore both of your feelings a little more to find out what happened.

I may be wrong, but I doubt that the ultimatum was just thrown out there out of the blue.

I hope you both are able to come to a reasonable compromise.

[Jessica1983]

Hi thanks every one for your help I will see how it goes and keep you posted thanks

[ReineD]

I agree with you on that. Now, lets go one step further. Obviously CDing ruins sexual attraction. My ex ruined the attraction I had for her. Instead of being the small cute blonde that was agreeable, she became a belligerent, mouthy, redhead that put on a hundred plus pounds, all before she had any sort of inkling that I was a CD

But again, apples with apples.

There are as many women who put up with husbands who've gained weight as husbands who've put up with heavier wives. There are as many women who put up with bald husbands as men who put up with women who've changed the color of their hair.

I'm sorry that your marriage deteriorated. Maybe this is why your wife feels the way she does about the CDing. And maybe the deteriorating marriage is why you felt a lack of sexual attraction to your wife as her body changed with age. When the basics are gone, it's hard to be supportive of the package.

[MelanieAnne]

I don't understand the need or desire for therapy. What is the purpose or goal. If you are going to therapy to be cured of crossdressing, save your money. It ain't gonna happen. The only purpose for therapy might be to reach some kind of DADT agreement, or level of acceptance. But no one is ever "cured" of crossdressing. And suppressing it will likely lead to depression, and resentment, and possible health problems due to the constant stress of suppressing it. Before starting therapy, you both need to ask yourselves, why are we doing this. What result do we seek? Otherwise, you are just throwing your money away.

[Alice Torn]

Sad, to say, many people think you cam just quit CDing, and never do it again. I sent an older lady i rented a room with, photos of me dressed. She told me she did not like it,a nd i was wrong, and should stop. She then sent the photos to a close older lady friend, telling her what was in the envelope. My friend said she would not even open the envelope, and did not want to see me as a woman, but only remember me as a man. On the phone, she scolded me, telling me I am a man, not a woman!! She seemed open to understanding gays some, but not this!! She married a "normal" man, who was married a few times before, and we never talk anymore. It seems some GG's and other "normal" people, only look at our "perverse" problem, and ignore all the other parts of us.

[JulieC]

I guess I must be one of the lucky ones. My wife knows all about me, it was actually the first thing I told her about when we met. She's ok with my femme side, although she's never seen me dressed. I don't want to push the issue though.

I got to a point in my life where I'd seen the spectrum of acceptance/non-acceptance in the women I had been dating. I made a pact with myself that I would inform any woman I was dating for more than a couple of months, and I would stop dating any woman that was not accepting. I was not going to live the rest of my life punishing myself for being who I am.

To the original poster; I say the response above to highlight something; If...if...you end up getting divorced, in your future dating life do not accept non-acceptance. You are who you are. You can no more change the fact you _need_ to crossdress than, as others have said, you can change your eye color. It's who you are. There are plenty (and I do mean that...plenty) of women who will accept you crossdressing. There's levels of acceptance, to be sure. Some women actively encourage it, want to see it, be part of it. That's few and far between, but there are many women who will accept it enough that you can be you. In terms of numbers, think of it like a bell curve. There's a top few % and bottom few %. At these extremes are total acceptance and total rejection. Most women are somewhere in the middle-ish of the curve. Everything else being healthy in the relationship, a considerable number of women will at least tolerate it. Don't ever accept anything less.

For your current situation, a counselor who understands transgender issues is far better equipped than one who does not. Your wife has to come to grips with the understanding that this isn't going to change about you, and you can not give it up. Recognition of that is step #1. Following that, some understanding of compromise, of limits, of borders has to be developed to create a world in which she can live, and your femme alter ego can live as well.

[Jessica1983]

Hi thank you all for your help I'm goner see how this all plays out I will keep you posted