Is the Lack of Practicality a Contributor to a lack of Acceptability?

[Sarasometimes]

Some years ago I went and got a pedicure at a regular salon en-femme and I was going shopping after, so before I had her polish my toes I went to change into toe-less pantyhose to cover my leg hair. We had been talking frankly about crossdressing and her big challenge was understanding why a male would go through all the work, effort and at times discomfort to dress like a woman. Some other stylists at weighed in too. This was all done very respectfully but all of the GG's said they had the same challenge to understanding it. My tech admitted that she wears high heels that are uncomfortable but that they make her legs look great. She also said there is no way should would wear pantyhose unless required for a formal affair or great job! The stylists even added that if society didn't expect women to have stylish well kept hair they think few clients would still spend the time and effort to do so. They said that if it wasn't for the societal expectation to be fashionable a lot of what we wish to do would not be done by many woman.
I tend to think that if, for a lack of a better word, logic was on our side to a greater degree I think more would say OK, make sense. Your thoughts?

[Rachael Leigh]

Yes I've heard and read this a lot that many women would just prefer a pair of jeans or slacks no makeup and just tie up their hair.
Yes they are expected to look nice and well kept.
So for us who dress and go out why do we do it if many women think it's easier to be a man?
I'm not sure of a good answer here but I know that going thru the things we do that gets us ready to go out is fun in its own way and since I mostly dress to blend into the current look I just enjoy doing it because I like the fashion and the styles more then men's clothes

[Pat]

Interesting premise. I can't say I buy it. I think the lack of acceptability sits squarely with being a male adopting a female role. It probably doesn't matter if it's easy or hard to do.

I think your reason for doing what you do is different than a natal woman's reasons for doing it. You're not just meeting society's fashion expectations, your making a connection to your inner identity. A cisgender woman's identity is basically fully engaged at all times -- it doesn't matter what she does, she's a woman and to the extent she has cultivated it, she's in touch with that identity. I think the reason we crossdress is that we're using that as a springboard to contact the feminine side of our identities and as such we do it for a much different reason and probably would continue to do it even if women around us abandoned the particular behavior. I often see people on here loudly proclaiming that they *only* wear dresses and decrying a world in which most women don't. I believe the issue there is that the dresses key into their identity and they can't make the contact they need by wearing jeans. (So naturally, they feel nobody should wear jeans. It's human.)

[Chelsea B]

I think you are spot on, Jennie.

[Sascha Marie]

the grass is always greener

[sometimes_miss]

the grass is always greener
I don't even know how many of us seriously believe that. I don't. Being a woman includes all kinds of problems that men don't have. We're different. We have different things to deal with in life. Going from male to female is simply an exchange of one set of problems, with another. The big difference is, in how we feel about ourselves.

That said, I don't think the OP's idea has much to do with why people don't like men crossdressing. To me, it all comes down to what is expected of us. When we try to emulate females, they see us as refusing to accept the provider/protector male role in society, and all the responsibilities that come with it, and that makes them uncomfortable. Next, add in the widespread homophobia that men have. THAT'S what upsets them.

[Leslie Langford]

It seems to be a truism that women - when they do dress up - dress to impress other women as opposed to the males around them, the only notable exception being if they are on the lookout for a potential mate or else have a "hot" date lined up. Beyond that, they tend to default to "soccer mom" or "minivan mom" mode and prefer to wear what is deemed comfortable to them, irregardless of what others may think and how unkempt they may appear overall. One walk through Walmart or the like, or down any suburban or small-town street is all one needs to do to confirm that impression. These days, fashionably dressed women are only to be found in the downtown cores of major cities where a professional, business-like office look is still de riguer, or else at a formal event such as a wedding or a fund-raiser.

And before anyone jumps all over me accusing me of offering a sexist or misogynist world-view, let me stress the fact that I feel the same way about the way men dress these days.

As a society, we have dumbed down in the way we tend to present ourselves nowadays, and to my mind, that slippery slope started in the 1960's with the hippie-inspired counter-culture, "do your own thing" attitude that first took hold back then. This was exacerbated by the God-awful fashions of the 1970's, and reached its logical conclusion in the 1980's and 1990's with the adoption of - first - "casual Fridays" in most office settings, and ultimately, "business casual", which was code for dress however the h*ll you want, and feel free to ditch the white shirts, ties, jackets, pressed slacks, skirts, blouses, dresses, pantyhose, and heels etc. In other words, treat going to work the same as going to the beach.

Add to that the prevalence of tattoos and piercings today, as well as a culture of "me, me, me" along with an "anything goes" style of dressing, and that is what we have evolved to now. And God-forbid that anyone expresses a negative opinion about the way someone else presents themselves because that would be - horror of horrors! - an act of "shaming", and besides, who are we to be so "judgey"?

So yes, standards of appropriate dress are next to non-existent for both sexes these days, and in answer to the OP's specific question, that is also why most women these days have abandoned traditionally female clothes and opted for wearing casual - if not slovenly - attire most times. What they seem to have forgotten in the process is that men are visual creatures and are generally strongly attracted to the distinctly female form with all its enhancements including "sexy" attire. This includes figure-hugging skirts and dresses, a hint of cleavage, as well as shapely legs enhanced with "killer" heels - in other words, the types of things that cry out "vive la difference! Or as French crooner Maurice Chevalier once put it " Thank Heaven for little girls, for little girls get bigger everyday...Thank Heaven for little girls, they grow up in the most delightful way..."

If the aim of women these days is to fly under the radar in terms of looking attractive to the opposite sex, dressing in shapeless sweatshirts, track or jogging pants, scrunching their hair up into a ponytail and burying it under a ball cap as well as wearing the ubiquitous flip-flops, then they are certainly going about it the right way. We crossdressers "of a certain age" well remember the days when women took more pride in their appearance and went out of their way to look attractive. In dressing the same way (and yes, in some ways it is a fantasy) we typically aim to recreate that image by proxy.

[deebra]

Going back to the OP's post women do it to be pretty, desired, and have more control over men, look better than other women and look ten times better dressed with makeup than they would without. LOOK OUT, here comes a lot of screaming from the GG's.

- - - Updated - - -

Leslie, you nailed it, you said it much better than me, I agree with you totally, You have just won a new panty and bra set, it will be in the mail tomorrow.

[Meghan4now]

Thinking about the OPS premise, I would say practicality has more to do with logistical challenges of cds. Like getting ready for a night out after work? Travel time through traffic, an hour and a half to get ready, then go out, and make it home at a reasonable hour. Even if you CAN do it at home!

I think if there is a link between practicality and acceptance, it's from the resentment of spending time and money that your mate sees as a total waste, and therefore selfish.

[Julie Gaum]

Jennie and Leslie covered the interesting thread nicely --- well done girls
Julie

[Melissa Rose]

Getting dressed up whether causal, business, semi-formal or formal is nothing special for most women because it is part of their daily norm while for cross dressers it is a special treat. Anything beyond casual takes various amounts of work. My current and past work places (office environments) have dress codes with the current one being more dressy than the last one. Many days I would rather throw on jeans and a t-shirt or a sundress and sandals since I really do not feel like doing my hair and makeup and putting together a work outfit. While I do like looking nice, some days I do not feel like putting in the effort. This is really getting to my bottom-line is that many women do not understand wanting to get "dressed up" by choice because it is sometimes tedious, a requirement and/or take extra effort. However, a lack of understanding does not necessarily drive a lack of acceptance. There are plenty of social behaviors and personal philosophies others do not understand, but they are totally accepting or tolerant of it.

[Rachelakld]

If you strip all the BS from womens fashion, and the female had zero drive to "look pretty" I'm sure they would all be dressed in T-shirt & jeans and have number 4 hair cuts, ie same as guys.
Practicality in the biologicaly sense (for health & hygene reasons), both sexes SHOULD wear skirts

[susan54]

I think we have another UK/US split here. In Scotland I work in a sector where there is not a dress code. Despite this more of the women dress smartly than the men and most wear skirts/dresses and even heels and they have girls' nights out where they go all out with dressing up. It is clear that the women are dressing for themselves and for other women, not for men. They are having fun with their clothes in a way that menswear does not really permit. Though I would love to be part of this dressing up for work I would not want everything that goes with it - I have the luxury of cherry picking the best bits and I do exactly that. Most importantly I do not have to conform to a magazine's idea of what I should look like - I am lucky that I look good in a dress but I have a lot of sympathy with any woman who does not meet these expectations, because they are judged by this by some others in a way men are not. I might be in a minority on here in envying women only in respect of their clothing choice and sometimes - like the woman forced to wear heels at work - it is not a choice. I reckon a crossdresser has the best of it sometimes and many do not realise this. Having lit this blue touchpaper I will now go to bed!

[Nikki A.]

Sometimes wearing a dress or a skirt can be practical especially in the summer. A nice sundress can be cool.
Unfortunately a man in a sundress sticks out like a sore thumb (in my opinion) and so we go further to further blur the lines. If it were acceptable I would love to be able to wear a skirt and be a guy. Of course on the other hand I do enjoy transforming myself into Nikki and looking as good as I possibly can at times.

[sometimes_miss]

If you strip all the BS from womens fashion, and the female had zero drive to "look pretty" I'm sure they would all be dressed in T-shirt & jeans and have number 4 hair cuts,
Gee, other than the hair cuts, (wifey usually tied it back or up in bun), you just described my ex wife and most of the women on my block. Kind of a shame that we've all lost the desire to look good on a regular basis. I admit that for about 10 years, I had made it a point to wear nice stuff, but have of late regressed into wearing casual vacation/beach wear every day whenever I'm not working. Now I feel bad.....

[Pat]

There's kind a disturbing undercurrent of thinking that women's reason for existing is to look pretty. It's not. Putting that burden on them is adding a dress code to daily life and I've never been to a place where having a dress code is a positive experience. It's not their job to be your entertainment / fantasy object. (Nor is it mine, when I'm presenting female.) I can't speak on behalf of women but I can say when I dress up I'm doing it for myself. Sometimes that means I'm dressing to please myself over the effect I'll have on others, but it's always just for me. From conversations with representative women I'm pretty sure it's the same for them. If you think others should be dressing to please you, like you're some kind of god or sultan -- especially if you yourself are not looking like James Bond -- I think the problem is in you and not in the person who's just trying to enjoy their own life.

[Sara Jessica]

Nicely said Jennie. I'll add that it is sad that some men cannot see the beauty in women in spite of what they might be wearing. I don't know about the rest of the world but in SoCal, I see women who absolutely rock the jeans/t-shirt/flip-flops or workout-wear on a daily basis. And my SO makes such a cute soccer mom. With all of the running around she does in her extraordinary effort to give our children her best every day, it makes zero sense to expect her or any other woman to go all out, just to be some sort of visual stimuli for men.

[audreyinalbany]

I've got to agree with Sara Jessica here. There seems to be an underlying current here that women ought to go out of their way to be visually appealing to men's ideal of a 'sexy' woman. It's curious that this thread started as the OP observing that genetic women don't understand our desire to 'dress up' as women and here we all are wondering why it we don't understand genetic womens' desire to dress like normal people.

[Sarasometimes]

Sara Jessica You hit on my point in your post with the quote "it makes zero sense". My question/point is that if it made a lot of sense for human to dress as women and men's clothing/presentation instead "it makes zero sense" would men choosing to wear women's clothes be better accepted since it make logical sense to do so?
I must admit that since many dresses and certainly skirts are more comfy in the hot weather and men aren't encouraged to wear them that puts a hole in my concept but I still think that the preception that presenting/dressing female is more involved and certainly the grooming aspects are much more time/effort intensive.

[Stephanie47]

I think there are two things going in this thread. Why do cross-dressing men go through all the efforts women go through to present as a woman, when it can be a laborious undertaking. I have read on this site for years going out attired in women's jeans, a top, casual footwear and minimal makeup. It seems to me that attire would blend in with the women at any store or just walking down only Main Street. On the opposite extreme is dressing to the nines, even being extremely closeted with nowhere to go. Societal expectations govern how any woman or man is going to dress. Is a cross dressing man is going to have her paints done while wearing jeans and flipflops, I'd say that still is a presentation of comfortable attire. Showing up to get her nails done while wearing toeless hosiery, dress, slip, panty and bra, wig, makeup, forms of all kinds, and, looking like a woman headed off for a night on the town, then may that is a good question.

Of course, what the salon worker cannot understand is why we do what we do anyway, whether it is a soccer mom presentation or dressed to the nines. Me? I truly do not know why I do what I do, but, if I am going to do what I do, then I want to emulate what I love to see a woman wear and present. I will never wear women's jeans. You find me a la June Cleaver doing my domestic chores in heels and a dress. My personal choice.

As to how men and women dress in general. There is a difference between a casual look, and, something that looks like a dog dragged it home. Clean clothes over ratty torn up jeans. Combed hair over messed up hair. Clean face and hands over filthy unwashed skin. A smile over a frown. I know few women who go to a stylist on a regular basis, yet they look attractive and desirable.

Now Sara is from the Northeast. I'm originally from the Northeast and had the sense to escape the hot and humid climate. Where I live now a hot day is 75. Nights are in the fifties. I unfortunately do remember my days as a young cross dressing teen trying on my mom's clothing in the summer. Ugh! I do remember my mother cursing the heat and humidity and the temperature humidity index. A dress, bra and slip, maybe a girdle, makeup? Ugh! and more ugh! Those were the summers of minimal attire, whether as a man or a woman. My environment. Totally different. A woman can wear a nice dress and light makeup and not sweat at all. No cursing the beautiful summer days of 75, and, cool evenings. There's nothing sexy about any woman sweating like a stuck pig with the weather kicking in at a THI of 100.

[Lorileah]

Of course, what the salon worker cannot understand is why we do what we do anyway, whether it is a soccer mom presentation or dressed to the nines. In reality, it isn't any of their business so it should no matter. I am sure they have clients who do a lot of things they don't understand

[Rhian]

It's the complete opposite where I work. In the summer both sexes dress fairly formally but I would say the men edge it slightly. Then in the summer the uniform rules seem to disappear for women who turn up in fairly casual summer clothes while we are expected to suffer in our pants, shirts and ties.

[Teresa]

I also feel Leslie and Jennie have basically got it right.

It is surprising that girls working in the beauty industry were saying this, I guess it's just a job to them after a while.

I will add a conversation I had with my wife while sitting having coffee in a shopping centre. We were three levels up watching the shoppers and I commented to my wife about the lovely clothes shops around the centre but looking down at the women shoppers I did ask where do those clothes go because no one looks remotely smart at all ? She thought it was a good point but couldn't give me an answer.

[Kate Simmons]

I dunno. I'm guessing it's just that we like to be pretty sometimes. :)

[Alice Torn]

I do not notice many GG's being stylish or with nice hairdos. I see MANY with hair cut very short, especially around the ears, wearing t-shirts, sweatshirts, jeans or capris or long shorts, and running/walking shoes. A number of women i have befriended, none owned dresses or skirts. When there is a rare lady all dressed up in a dress or skirt, hose and heels, and nice kept non short hair, my radar goes on! At Walmart today, i saw zero GG's in dresses or skirts, not one. I am a fan of vintage things, and the way women dressed 50 yrs ago or more, . I have a 40 yr old car. I guess i am biased toward bucking the trends, and like to present as a modest, yet wow! lady, even if it does take work, and not always very practical. That breeze on my legs, and up my dress is not so practical, but feels so nice!

[Sarasometimes]

Thanks for all of your replies but i think the thread has drifted. I make no inferences that women need to dress for men or need to get dolled up to look sexy or beautiful. My point is simply if dressing in a feminine way was more practical then dressing in a masculine way would society be ever so more likely to appreciate men taking advantage of those features?
The salon workers were just sharing their views in an open, friendly discussion. I have heard similar comments here from GG's and SO's and wives being quoted as asking "Why would you want to go through all the effort to look pretty if society doesn't want or expect you to do so."

[Meghan4now]

Sara,

I agree, this thread has gone off topic from your original question. I will reiterate and restate my response.

I believe there is a weak correlation, but one nonetheless. One of a mates objections is that CDING is a waste of time and money. If it were practical, there would be one less objection. However it is only a strong objection if significant interference with finances or relational duties and quality time is resultant.

Otherwise men and women do impractical stuff all the time with less or more objection. The impacticality probably has no bearing on acceptance by others that have no relational investment.

Well tthat's my opinion today anyway.

[Nikki.]

Interesting premise. I can't say I buy it. I think the lack of acceptability sits squarely with being a male adopting a female role. It probably doesn't matter if it's easy or hard to do.

I think your reason for doing what you do is different than a natal woman's reasons for doing it. You're not just meeting society's fashion expectations, your making a connection to your inner identity. A cisgender woman's identity is basically fully engaged at all times -- it doesn't matter what she does, she's a woman and to the extent she has cultivated it, she's in touch with that identity. I think the reason we crossdress is that we're using that as a springboard to contact the feminine side of our identities and as such we do it for a much different reason and probably would continue to do it even if women around us abandoned the particular behavior.

I think you've nailed it....I've been trying to get my head around this but I believe you're spot on..

[Janine cd]

Alice, I agree with you totally. I love the retro styles and can never grow tired of feeling the soft touch of my skirt against my pantihose. I love wearing 50's styles clothing' especially the lingerie.

[Alice Torn]

Leslie, I could not have said it better than you did! Right on, your whole post! i have said that American women over 40, many simply do not want to look sexy or attractive, looking like sex objects, and part of me cannot blame them not wanting lots of unwanted male attention. Sad times. As we see so many people into vintage cars, and airplanes, becaue of dissatisfaction with todays cars, and planes, so i believe some CDs go for the vintage older look, even in not so practical,or convenience wise.

[Katya@]

I am with Jennie 100%. I do what I need to do to make a connection with my inner girl part. Everything else is secondary. Practical part is not important within reasonable boundaries. If men were wearing skirts from the beginning of times, I wouldn't wear one to make that connection. It wouldn't work. Only at the early days of CD, any woman cloth article was enough. Not enough these days. I need skirt, dress, etc, not T-shirt and jeans, even if they had a label "women jeans". It is a contradicting thought. I want men to be allowed to wear skirts yet I don't want it to be a unisex clothes. It is practical, comfortable and great like a t-shirt and I will wear it for comfort but I will need something else to reach that inner girl in me. And this is what many non-CDs, and heck, even some CDs, don't understand. It takes a lot of self searchinh to understand it.
I realized that my wife didn't understood it either as was evident when I was comming out to my in-laws. She new about my CD but didn’t realize the true meaning of this to me. She now understands me better.

[Sarasometimes]

My post was not intended to be a discussion about how women dress and if they should be more "dolled up". If dressing female/femininely was less involved, more comfortable and had better functionality than masculine clothes would society better understand/accept men dressing that way.
Put another way, my sister was the first class in her high school where girls were allowed to wear jeans. A big reason it was allowed was the argument that in cold weather the girls would be warmer for the walk to school. There really aren't many similar arguments to support men wearing women's clothing.

[CarleyR]

We crossdressers "of a certain age" well remember the days when women took more pride in their appearance and went out of their way to look attractive. In dressing the same way (and yes, in some ways it is a fantasy) we typically aim to recreate that image by proxy.

I think Leslie is right. How women dress has changed. But my primary point of reference is not what women do today.

[Vickie_CDTV]

I suspect it was the pantyhose that got her going. American women absolutely hate pantyhose and think they are uncomfortable torture devices... even GGs who will wear sky high pointed toe heels (figure that one out!) I have never met a GG (in real life) who liked wearing pantyhose, even a little. It is always one of those things GGs site about not understanding why men dress.

[EffyJaspers]

"Why would you want to go through all the effort to look pretty if society doesn't want or expect you to do so."?
Working in Walmart as one of the lowly associates.... I would say plenty of women are attractive in normal wear. I would also say some may have laxed in actual clothing style but their bodies underneath are rocking, checking out the butts in those sport pants or leggings/yoga type clothing is lovely. They have natural appeal without trying, not that you know if one has tried or not to look presentable. To those that have given in to leisure and comfort (extra weight and spandex clothing) it's their choice, but I will hold a grudge accidentally (but still intentionally) checking our their booty!

On a related note, ARG, i check out even old lady booty because with pants nowadays its so easy to be tricked with a quick glance until you realize the age of the rest of the body! They can look good to start so easily!

[Sarasometimes]

Vickie,
You may be onto something with the pantyhose. I remember all made comments about hating pantyhose and they also included voluntarily wearing a bra as something they couldn't grasp. they also said that heels hurt at times but the pay-off of great looking legs and making the outfit is worth it in their eyes.

[Alice Torn]

Sara, In colder weather, especially biter cold, practicality for both GG's and CD's or TS, would be cold weather clothes, like heavy pants, insulated snowsuits, sweaters, heavy winter coats, and boots. Survival dicates! I forgot to mention tights!

[Pat]

American women absolutely hate pantyhose and think they are uncomfortable torture devices...

Really? You're empowered to speak for all the women in the Americas? Awesome.

[Sarasometimes]

jennie, i agree that Vickie over stated things when she included all american women but she is likely right that many do strongly dislike wearing pantyhose.

[Nikki A.]

Honestly, if I had tanned totally nice legs I'd ditch the pantyhose. But I don't and they make my legs look nicer.
Besides being from an older generation, I was raised in an environment that women always wore stockings or hose and if you went to church you always wore a dress, no pants or shorts. As a matter of fact, the religion that I was raised in still strongly frowns upon women wearing pants to church, although they are quite liberal in other ways. Even guests that attend ceremonies are told that a dress is very much required.

[sometimes_miss]

I think that the lack of practicality issue is mostly because a lot of women seem to think that crossdressers wish to adopt female attire, dress and behavior, all because they believe that we are doing it all, in an attempt to adopt what we erroneiously believe to be an easier life. After all, that's pretty much why THEY try to adopt men's type lifestyles, because they think it's easier. Men's clothes are simpler and looser, and don't attract unwanted attention to their bodies. Women don't put anywheres near as much importance on how the opposite sex looks, so they think we shouldn't, either. So, they see men's life as 'easier'. So when we want to wear tight underwear with thin elastic, straps that can stick into the skin, tight outerwear that has to be constantly monitored to avoid 'exposing' anything, I can see how they might be assuming we're trying to shirk our manly responsibilities.

Vickie_CDTV wrote

American women absolutely hate pantyhose and think they are uncomfortable torture devices...
then Jennie-cd wrote

Really? You're empowered to speak for all the women in the Americas? Awesome.
C'mon now, we really have to stop being so picky about using quantitative words like all, some, many, few, etc.. We get it. You like to pick apart other people's writing, just chomping at the bit to find something that doesn't fit EXACTLY how you think it should be written. Please, please, give it a rest. The rest of the world understands that MOST people commonly speak in generalization, so how come we have so many people here who can't accept it?
OOOO OOOO OOOO, YOU DIDN'T USE ANY OF THE QUANTIFYING WORDS LIKE SOME, MOST, FEW, OR MANY, SO THAT MUST ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, MEAN YOU MEAN ALL, RIGHT????
Give me a break.
But I agree with Vickie. I don't know many women who like wearing pantyhose or stockings. .

There's kind a disturbing undercurrent of thinking that women's reason for existing is to look pretty..
Yeah, I get that complaint a lot on other forums. But it's not that it's their reason for existing. It's that men predominantly are attracted to women of best childbearing age, and women USUALLY do things like dress and use make up in an effort to appear as a woman of that approximate age. As far as I know, there aren't a whole lot of women trying to look elderly, or prepubescent; most aim for 20-ish if at all possible; if not, as close to the 20's as they can. Of course, I'm going to get arguments from a few of you who will yell and scream and stomp your feet complaining that middle aged women are not trying to look that young FOR ANYONE!!!!! that they are dressing for themselves so they can feel good. However, what they are doing IS not coincidentally the very same thing as someone who IS trying to look like she's in her 20s. So what the reason is, is irrelevant, because the end result winds up being the same.

Nicely said Jennie. I'll add that it is sad that some men cannot see the beauty in women in spite of what they might be wearing..
I really don't think that's much of a problem. Most guys can see right past the fashion designer named outfits or even baggy work clothes, and focus on what they think the woman's body looks like.

[irene9999]

It's ironic that a lot of the things as crossdressers enjoy women don't like because they're an inconvenience (pantyhose, heels, tight/revaling clothes, etc) but they don't like it because it's always there. If they weren't allowed to wear those things they would probably have a better appreciation for them I guess

[Vickie_CDTV]

Really? You're empowered to speak for all the women in the Americas? Awesome.

I am not speaking for them, that is what they say themselves.

[Lorileah]

After all, that's pretty much why THEY try to adopt men's type lifestyles, because they think it's easier. Men's clothes are simpler and looser, and don't attract unwanted attention to their bodies. Women don't put anywheres near as much importance on how the opposite sex looks, so they think we shouldn't, either. So, they see men's life as 'easier'. So when we want to wear tight underwear with thin elastic, straps that can stick into the skin, tight outerwear that has to be constantly monitored to avoid 'exposing' anything, I can see how they might be assuming we're trying to shirk our manly responsibilities.



Wow...reach much? You really believe that? If that were true then women's clothing would not be seen except in sexual places. I think your think is totally off base.

I love how so many here think women's clothing is uncomfortable, sexual, inconvenient. And yet, you all like to wear it. You think men dress like slobs and then you apply that to women in men's clothing also (oh boy...Madonna in a suit, Annie Hall, women in men's boxer, most women in men's T-shirts.)

Sorry but I totally disagree women do it to NOT be noticed. And I disagree that women don't care what others wear.

[Robin414]

On a lighter note, purses are incredibly practical (especially MK purses 😊 )

[sometimes_miss]

Wow...reach much? You really believe that? If that were true then women's clothing would not be seen except in sexual places. I think your think is totally off base. I love how so many here think women's clothing is uncomfortable, sexual, inconvenient. And yet, you all like to wear it. You think men dress like slobs and then you apply that to women in men's clothing also (oh boy...Madonna in a suit, Annie Hall, women in men's boxer, most women in men's T-shirts.) Sorry but I totally disagree women do it to NOT be noticed. And I disagree that women don't care what others wear.
Like Vicky wrote, "I am not speaking for them, that is what they say themselves."

[CONSUELO]

It would take an entire book to delve into all of the issues raised in this topic. I have no answers but I do have some questions and some observations. If it is true that women would much prefer to "dress down" than to "dress up" then why the following
-Why the large number of women's fashion magazines as well as an entire fashion industry with shows and columns in newspapers? Why has this not died away?
-Why the large women's clothing departments in stores and the huge amount of women's fashions that are not only changed every season but every year?
-Why the proliferation of women's beauty shops and nail salons? In Houston there must be one on every corner?
-Why the luxury goods houses that almost exclusively sell very expensive accessories for women's fashions, like the BIRKIN bag which you have to order and wait a year for Hermes to deliver?

Why do I take so much time to dress in corsets and stockings and heels and flowing dresses on and on? Because it gives me great pleasure to see the final result in the mirror. When I see pictures of Theresa May (UK's Prime Minister) looking beautifully dressed and groomed in every public appearance she makes, I want to look as well turned out and as well groomed as she does.

When my late Mother went out in public she would take great care in dressing and grooming. Why? I know it is because she took great pride in always looking smart and elegant.

It really needs a book.

All women like to dress "comfortably" from time to time but when it is "time" they will go to great lengths to look as perfect as possible.

[Lorileah]

Like Vicky wrote, "I am not speaking for them, that is what they say themselves." OK, I will need citations on that. Hearsay and innuendo. Not admissible

[sometimes_miss]

OK, I will need citations on that. Hearsay and innuendo. Not admissible

Why not? Seems it's ok for everything else here. Otherwise we'd need a whole department of fact checkers. Most of what we have here, is personal opinions. Even when outside sources are mentioned, few of them are more than other people's opinions, or unsubstantiated studies of limited numbers of test subjects. Besides, most psychological work that has been done is not done in controlled studies, as lifetime experimenting on humans is pretty much not allowed anywhere in the civilized world.

[Alice Torn]

Consuelo, I believe there must be women in some areas that are upper crust, who buy the expensive fashions, bags, and shoes and accessories. But in blue collar, low income areas, and farming ares, like i live at, it is more the teens , and on their prom nights, doing it. Around my age, 62, i do not know of one that I am acquainted with, that dresses up, unless going to church. Many i have known, told me they won't wear a dress or skirt, or bathing suit.

[Sarasometimes]

The comment about purses being practical has merit. It would be interesting to see if they really caught on, would men have a hard time finding their keys? What things would men collect in their purses?
Would there be "a men's" "What's in my Bag" posts on you tube?