Full-time cross-dressing

[Mirya]

Does anyone here do full-time cross-dressing? Or know of anyone who does?

By that I mean someone who dresses as a woman all the time, 24/7, even for work, for many months on end (and maybe indefinitely?). But not intending to transition medically (no hormones) and not transitioning legally. And still identifies internally as a man, and not a woman.

What do you all think about that?

I'd also be very interested in hearing from anyone who has done it, or if you know of anyone who has. Thanks!

[MarciManseau]

I've been full time for over 10 years now, don't even own one thing male. I work every day as a woman and live with my GG GF, Julie, who has never seen me any other way. I took hormones when I was younger but no more, and I did have my name changed legally. I have no plans for SRS as both Julie and I like how I am now. I don't identify as a man though, and I don't think I ever have. Feel free to msg me Mirya if you need more info.

[flatlander_48]

One point about 24/7 and work. The company from which I recently retired did have gender expression built into its HR policies. But, as written (as of 6 months ago, anyway) it was intended for people who were transitioning and not periodically going back and forth in expression. I don't know how common that is, but it could be a deterrent.

DeeAnn

[Pat]

But once you say 24/7 then you're saying the person won't be "periodically going back and forth in expression." I think your company policy would handle it. The question would be could the managers handle it if you had no intent to identify female (which was another part of the OP.)

I'm pretty solidly "crossdressed" all the time these days, I'm starting hormones, I don't ever expect to go on to surgery nor do a name/document change (unless they start offering "transgender" as a choice on my driver's license.) I don't really consider what I do crossdressing since I can pretty confidently state I'm dressed correctly for whatever-the-heck-I-am. ;) I don't know if that's what the OP is looking for, but I can say such people exist.

[flatlander_48]

What I said related to this passage:

By that I mean someone who dresses as a woman all the time, 24/7, even for work, for many months on end (and maybe indefinitely?).

Point being for months on end, but what if it wasn't indefinitely and there would be a return to the original presentation. That could be an issue as well as the concept of being gender fluid and having some sort of periodic shift. Unfortunately, I don't have intimate knowledge of why the policy was structured that way.

Anyway, I made the comment because some may want to do 24/7 but their situation forces a compromise.

DeeAnn

[Pat]

Ohmigosh, DeeAnn -- kinda makes my head swim a little. I'm thinking of someone transgender living in the closet, at some point breaking free and coming out to their management, then after going through a work transition deciding they were wrong and having to be closeted cisgender because the people at work expect them to crossdress. :doh: What scares me is because it's possible to envision it, there's probably someone doomed to live it.

[flatlander_48]

Yes, I don't know why the policy was written that way, but it would seem that it would be some pretty unusual circumstances. Curious...

DeeAnn

[Teresa]

Mirya,
If I had separated from my wife my intention was to shape my life around dressing full time, I can't say what that would have evolved into but I felt then I was being totally honest about myself, yes I do accept my life currently is a compromise, I have to live up to my family commitments so content myself with going out once a month to meet others socially.

[NicoleScott]

I can't imagine how someone who identifies as a man would crossdress 24/7. Makes no sense to me.
I had the chance. For three years straight I took a week-long vacation at a time-share in Florida. Due to school and work other family members were unable to go, and since we paid for the week, my wife said go, have fun, and she knew I'd be taking all my crossdressing gear. So I went. I dressed up every day, usually twice a day, morning and evening sessions lasting several hours each. I could have stayed dressed except for showering and shaving, but I didn't. I love to transform, and when I do, it's everything over-the-top. But I'm a guy and enjoyed my guy time as well. It was never in my mind to be en femme 24/7.

[Jaylyn]

I don't think I'd want to do it full time. I got to dress three days once to the max every morning and I stayed dressed all day, this was at my house and I actually could stay dressed all day. I tried but found I enjoy just dressing when the urge hits and staying dressed till my want to is gone. 24/7 is not in my radar. Dressing for several hours at a time then putting every thing away is more me.

[grace7777]

I can't imagine how someone who identifies as a man would crossdress 24/7. Makes no sense to me.

Nicole,

My thoughts exactly.

I hope to be able to be en femme all the time, but then again I do not identify as a male and am looking into hormones and someday would not rule our srs in the future. If you want to be en femme 24/7 then you are much more than a crossdresser. If you like being male too, then I would think you would also want to express that part of you.

[Mirya]

I found an interview with someone named Rich Kleckner. He says that he is a full-time cross-dresser and has been doing it for 6 months in a row. He says that he identifies as a man. In fact he doesn't even have a femme name (or at least he never mentioned it during the interview). But he dresses as a woman full-time. He goes to work while dressed. He even goes to baseball games while dressed. Yet he does not seem to have any intention of transitioning medically (no HRT) nor transitioning legally (no name change).

I don't know if I'm allowed to link to other sites, but if you're interested in listening to the podcast interview, do a Google search for "Rich Kleckner and Brian Parra" and it should be the first result that shows up in the search. Brian Parra is the man who hosts the podcast and is interviewing Rich.

I found the interview fascinating and would love to hear what other people in this forum think about it.

[Teresa]

Mirya,
The transition has happened in their minds , they are content with that, I can't answer for myself but I wanted to run a painting group, so being dressed full time and doing that was my dream and my intention.

[Jenniferathome]

I've been full time for over 10 years now, don't even own one thing male. I work every day as a woman... I don't identify as a man though, ....

So Marci, the question was about cross dressing full time. You do not identify as a cross dresser, do you?

[Pat]

I can't imagine how someone who identifies as a man would crossdress 24/7.

There's slippery a concept there... "identifies as a man." If you are male sex and fully identify as a man for gender, you'd be cisgender and except for actors or people being coerced somehow I don't believe there are cisgender men who would voluntarily put on women's clothing. So probably what you'd have to settle for is someone who does not (fully) identify as a woman, or only identifies partially as a man (i.e. is non-binary.)

The second thing is you may be overloading some assumptions onto the term "crossdressed." For example, when I say "I'm pretty solidly 'crossdressed' all the time these days" I'm saying that I am always wearing what are traditionally considered women's clothes. I'm not necessarily dressed as fully as I would be if I was trying to be perceived as a woman, I'm dressed in what I consider a pretty "authentic" (my gender counsellor's favorite term) non-binary presentation. In my mental model, it allows me to access my whole personality at once rather than serially choose between the "male side" and the "female side." But that makes my identity some kind of non-binary, i.e. not identifying as male.

People are complex, life is strange and the transgender umbrella casts a wide shadow. Maybe there are people who identify male and crossdress 24/7 but it's hard to imagine there aren't some caveats to that description.

[Sabrina133]

Hi Mirya,

Like Marci, I am full time. I am on hrt but have no intention of getting bottom surgery. I am married to a woman who loves me this way so no changes. While I have male plumbing, I consider myself a woman. WHen i was hired by my current firm, i was hired as a male (as I was presenting as one, albeit a very feminine one) but I was very upfront with the hiring manager that i was considering (at the time) transitioning. I was told as long as I was not transitioning, i was required to adhere to a male dress code (I work in a very tradition bound profession). Once i started HRT and the changes became obvious, i was allowed to dress and present as female. IT has been 2 years.

If you want to PM me about it, pls feel free.

Bree

[Lorileah]

So Sabrina...they said as long as you weren't transitioning and you started HRT and now you dress...are you breaking the rules they set? You are, in their mind, transitioning.

I also have to question the use of hormones and remaining a "male". Seems contradictory to me. A male would not want female hormones.

[Mirya]

Thanks everyone for the responses! But I want to clarify that the initial question was if anyone is, or currently knows of a full-time cross-dresser who:


identifies as male
does not do HRT, and does not plan to ever do it
does not do a legal name change, and does not plan to ever do it
wears female clothing (skirts, dresses) all the time, even at work.
no feminizing surgeries of any kind, and no intention to ever do so


It seems that this Rich Kleckner person is the only one that does it... which makes me wonder if he even is a crossdresser at all. Even though he claims to be a crossdresser, maybe he just doesn't realize what he really is. Maybe he's actually a non-binary gender identity of some sort.

[rachelatshop]

Hi Mirya, By all definitions I understand if a male subject wears clothing which is clearly identified as being clothing only normally worn by cis girls or women, then that male is indeed cross dressing and has nothing to do with his reason for wearing the female clothing.

[UNDERDRESSER]

I don't know if I count? I wear skirts full time, pretty much. Have been doing it for over a year so far. Sometimes hosiery, as far as I know, no-one knows what sort of underwear. Tops are just men's shirts, t-shirts, and sweaters. I am looking for a Summer dress, but I find that harder to make work, as the fitting is just off, and I have no need or desire for something that shows of or exaggerates breast that I don't have. The skirts are mostly fairly simply cut, and often get called "kilts" or "manskirts" despite being quite clearly skirts to me. I am experimenting with different looks, and stuff that is a bit more soft and floaty. I asked permission at work before doing so, "How do you feel about me wearing skirts or kilts?" "Go for it!" was the answer. So far I wear men's shoes, I have bought some simple mary-jane type shoes, but haven't actually worn them out. If in my own mind it just doesn't work as a menswear, I lack the confidence to wear it out, even if I think the look works for me. I shave or buzz cut my hair, lately I have added some hats, fake leather cowboy hat, or a straw fedora for the sun. Nobody from management, and hardly any of my co-workers has asked why. For all I know management thinks it's a TG thing, and technically, you could view it that way, but I don't identify as TG, or gender fluid, just male with a liking for unconventional and comfortable clothing.

What astonished me was so few people even mention it. I get comments from customers about once every two weeks or so on average. Negative comments or serious disapproving looks I can count pretty much on one hand. Most comments and questions come from women, and they are overwhelmingly positive. Just this last week I had to walk past 3 guys doing some landscaping in a front garden, and was somewhat relieved that they either didn't notice or ignored me, when 4 more guys, who looked even more redneck and rough types got out of a truck in front of me as they came back from lunch. Said hi, and nodded to them, definitely saw startled looks and surprise on their faces. I was wearing a knee length denim skirt and t-shirt, it was pretty hot so I was walking up the hill at a steady pace. The guys were all wearing shorts or cut offs, some were without shirts. As I got past them all I heard the last one who had been looking down at something say "He's wearing a dress! Is that a dress mate? Is it comfortable?" Turned around and said to the last guy who was standing there looking somewhat stunned, "It's a skirt not a dress and yes it is" I don't think he heard me properly and repeated "Is it comfortable?" "Yes, very" He shook his head and turned around to go back to work, possibly thinking that he would have preferred to be in a skirt, as the work looked hot and sweaty. That was one of about 3 situations where I had thought there might be some grief, but they were all non-events.

[Sabrina133]

So Sabrina...they said as long as you weren't transitioning and you started HRT and now you dress...are you breaking the rules they set? You are, in their mind, transitioning.

I also have to question the use of hormones and remaining a "male". Seems contradictory to me. A male would not want female hormones.

You ask some very good questions.

For work and daily life - I live as and see myself as a woman. My wife and I simply do not desire to change the plumbing. As we are discovering today, the world is not binary. It works for us and I am allowed to continue working in my profession in my chosen gender identity.

As for HRT and remaining male...kind of like my first answer. It isn't in the plumbing, it is what is in the mind.

[Mirya]

Underdresser -

Thank you for sharing! I loved reading about your experiences wearing skirts! And I'm really encouraged by all the positive (and neutral) responses you've received from so many people.

May I ask what part of the world/country you live in, to find such tolerant people all around you? That's awesome!

[Lorileah]

You ask some very good questions.

For work and daily life - I live as and see myself as a woman.

As for HRT and remaining male...kind of like my first answer. It isn't in the plumbing, it is what is in the mind. So you disqualify yourself from this discussion. And good luck with the plumbing part if you are using enough hormone to make a difference.

The OP wants to know if anyone considers themselves a man (all the time even when dressed or dancing with the other CDs at the club) and dresses 24/7. I would still preclude anyone who is taking any hormones from that list as you aren't saying a "man" but going for something in between

[CherylFlint]

Tried it.
Too darn much work.
At first it was a blast, but when it started to not be fun anymore, I went back to just having fun.

[UNDERDRESSER]

1
Underdresser -

Thank you for sharing! I loved reading about your experiences wearing skirts! And I'm really encouraged by all the positive (and neutral) responses you've received from so many people.

May I ask what part of the world/country you live in, to find such tolerant people all around you? That's awesome!Calgary, Alberta. (Canada)

[MisterEgurl]

http://www.laweekly.com/news/brian-and-debbie-mccloskey-he-wears-a-dress-shes-fine-with-that-4431752

There's a guy named Brian McClusky who is openly full-time and works as a librarian...

[Pat]

What an awesome article! Thanks for posting the link.

[Tina81]

In addition to the link above on Brian McClusky, there's a story that NPR did called, Longtime Couple Found that Clothes Didn't Make the Man.
http://www.npr.org/2015/04/03/397089146/longtime-couple-found-that-clothes-didnt-make-the-man

I think these two articles help spouses/SO understand why men like to crossdress.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's a follow up story on Sissy Goodwin (NPR Story Corps) who moved from Montana to Oregon:
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-wyoming-cross-dresser-20150404-story.html