How many of us are struggling with being FORCED to be " Closeted ?

[sweetvici]

I believe my " case " is unique, But I want to know, How others cope with wanting to dress more but for whatever reason you cant. My story ; After my Divorce, I decided that it would be best to just sell the house ( Mostly because I could NOT afford Mortgage payments on one income ) And for the first time in 25+ years I became a Single Bachelor. If that wasn't enough to test my limits, I also had to become a renter for the first time in 5+ Years. A single bachelor/ renter, it seemed like overnight!! I had a real hard time dealing with that. The only real bonus was, All our children were grown up enough to make it on their own. I was a single Dad for 5 or so years, The youngest of our four children was 15 at the time of the Divorce. My oldest Son moved out of " The Family House " as did My Daughter , Who got Married Within 1 year. Anyway, After the youngest Son moved on with his life, And moved out, I was a Single Dad With an EMPTY NEST, and with no financial help to maintain the Home, I was forced to sell or lose the property to Forclosure.I sold as quickly as possible. Now I'm a Bachelor/Renter.It was ROUGH. But wait theres a light at the end of this tunnel !! I didn't make a real big profit from selling my dream home, My savings was depleted, My Ex was making plans to Marry the man who she cheated on me with, And My job required me to travel a surprisingly close path as her and that ( BLEEPITY BLEEP ) Man frequently " Carried on in " But despite that, My job was my only bright spot, Until I got brave enough to go through some of the boxes from the old house. I found my " Stash of Bras, Painties Etc. The Ex tried to accept my dressing desires, But eventually, it was not something she was able to get excited about So began my feelings of shame And packed it in the back of my storage And my soul.But there it was, And WOW, It woke up a side of me that I had hidden from for about 10 years! Long story short, I became obsessed with exploring my female side again. I went out in pubic, And eventually to some Crossdresser friendly bars and really enjoyed my new life, For about 6 months. Looking back, I think it was an escape from the fact that for over half of my life, She ( My Ex ) and Our Children Were my life. I saw her AND HIM, Every day, Every where I went, Because of my Job, I seemed to be in places she and I shared and some that her and I called " Our special places " But now she was there with HIM. The Company I was working for lost several contracts, I lost a big portion of my Income, And I just decided one morning while drinking my Coffee, That's it! I'm outta here! I got my training, Turned in my" Notice " sold most of my remaining possessions and became a Truck Driver. I haven't been back to Sacramento, Ca. In 14 years! However, I didn't like being " Cooped up " in a truck 10 months out of the year, So I came " Home " to Montana. I've been back for about 11 years, And now I'm LITTERALLY unable to leave, Mostly because I haven't the funds Or anywhere else to go. But as much as I love this State, If I were to admit I have a Female side, I would be TARRED AND FEATHERED!!! I live with ANTI EVERYTHING roomates, And in a ANTI EVERYTHING Society. I'm not critical of Christian beliefs, But these folks are so CLOSED MINDED, That I think , For the most part, I would be wise to stay in my closet. I have heard some HORRENDOUS ideologies about what should be done to ANYONE who even APPEARS to be, What most in this particular area consider to be gays. I have not been afforded the opportunity to get all dolled up in 12 years.How do you cope with simular life situation. If you have to go through something like I live ?

[Nikkilovesdresses]

I can't begin to relate to your story Vici, my life is a playground by comparison; just want to say how much I admire your uncrushable spirit and your lack of self pity.

You say how much you love Montana, but you're accepting some heavy compromises by being there. You've proven you can up-stakes and resettle, so why not move somewhere Vici can spread her wings? What's keeping you there?

Hugs, Nikki

[~Joanne~]

Thats a lot to take in and personally, myself, I wouldn't be in that situation. Your EX has put you through hell and back again so getting away from that was a good move but to land into another situation (when it comes to you being YOU) I would most certainly be up and moving again. I know it's easier said than done due to financial reasons but it would be the goal first and foremost in my life right now if I were in your shoes.

I wish you the best of luck.

[Lana Mae]

Glad to see you got away from the wife!! Montana is a definate no-no for LGBT persons!! As bad or worse than HB2 NC, where I live!! I am also in the closet for now!! There are some LGBT safe places in the state though!! Not sure if Montana has any!! If you are or become able shoot for Portland, Oregon or Seattle , Washington both LGBT friendly for the most part!! Best wishes moving forward!! Hugs Lana Mae

[Ressie]

I kind of got lost on the timeline of your story. Was Sacramento your home when you were married with children? Living in a small town in cowboyland isn't good for crossdressing. I would have thought you were making good money as a truck driver. It sounds like you were unable to save a portion of your income for some reason. I know what being in poverty is like. It takes money to do just about anything.

I think many of us can feel threatened by the more redneck types in our families, neighborhoods etc. Going out dressed in a (more accepting) nearby town is the answer for many CDs.

[Jenniferathome]

Vici, I live in Idaho. Not the hotbed of trans nor gay rights and I am NOT forced into a closet.

There is hate and haters everywhere, but there are also college towns that actually have gay people, trans people, etc. Billings or Missoula will have open mined people because young people are, generally, open minded. But I think you are imparting on others, feelings they do not have. The world is not out to get you. Mostly, the world just does't care. Don't allow yourself to be trapped by a perception

[Sarah Beth]

I cannot at all relate to your situation as it relates to your marriage and divorce and all those issues. But Montana sounds a lot like rural Kansas to me. Where I live you had better not be seen as different in any way shape or form. I own my own business and I have people who do business with me because I am too "liberal" for them because I was friends with a gay person who lived next door to me. He finally had to move because he had trouble even buying groceries because someone was always trying to start something with him over it. Some years ago there was guy who lived here and one Halloween he got dressed up as a woman and went with some other people out doing what is called "trick or drinking". After that night he got so much flack from so many people and the name calling he left town. I wish I could leave here and go somewhere else but I have parents who are ninety with no one else to look after them.

[sweetvici]

Thanks for your input Sarah Beth, That is the Exact mentality that is rampant in this area, Don't get me wrong, 99.9% of these people dont even think, They just " Jump into action " In a crisis situation, Like the Big Wild Fire ( Roaring Lion Fire ) That sprung up 7 days ago, Near where I currently live, It's Near Hamilton, Mt. 8 miles from me, In Corvallis. There's actually a Waiting list for volunteers willing to give freely thier time, equipment, use of thier property for displaced animals, Empty bunkhouses, spare bedroom, money etc.! But those very same people would just as quickly, " Jump into Action " to Ostracize a Crossdresser, Transgender, ETC.

[Jenniferathome]

Vici, you are an hour from Missoula.

Here is a link showing that the UofM is talking about LGBT rights: http://news.umt.edu/2015/09/091615ally.php

Where there is a college, there are open minded people. This is not to mean that a cross dresser will be embraced like a homecoming queen but you won't be tarred and feathered. You have to do you part and OWN it, if you go out.

[Alice Torn]

SV. Thanks so much for sharing! ican relate some. as I am trying hard, to find another place to live, that is affordable, where my brothers and sister cannot locate me. They have mad my whole 62 yrs very painful. I lived around Seattle, then was forced to move 2000 miles to assist my dad, when my toxic older nazi twin brothers were arrested. I did not think either would be out of the big house, but after two yrs, one was released, and came back here, and it has been all drama for over 4 yrs with him and my sister and dad, all toxic members of a "fusion" family. My dad died last month. and i told them all, i have put in 6 yrs being here for my dad, and i plan to move on, as soon as i can find a place further away. Family was meant to be a good thing, and it can be, but too often, it is an emotional living hell, and being the baby, i am always talked down to. If my brothers found out about my dressing, it would be extremely more difficult for me here, as this is a small town area, where gossip spreads fast. Money is sadly the problem getting anywhere, too often. I have ads in newspapers and craigslist wanting housing. i do not want roommates ever again, but the high cost of rentals forces us to have roommates, too often. I wish every law abiding person could have there own land, and cabin. i had roommates almost catch me dressed several times in the past. I thought about moving to Montana, too. If somehow i do. maybe we could meet. I live in Illinois now. I love the landscapes of Montana, but its a long shot for me. I hope somehow you can move to a more tolerant area, too. Redneck folks have some very good qualities, but when it comes to CD, gays, TS, most are not nice about it. Some may be.

[sweetvici]

Ok, I can see, a quick clarification is needed here; Yes I lived in Sacramento, California for about 15 years. Of that time, About 7 years was spent on me being in a state of mind that denied me, And I even felt shameful for desiring to have a Female side. As I somewhat eluded to, That was self inflicted, It had absolutely NO bearing on my Divorce. About a year and a half coping with the divorce, And fighting my desire to do something illegal to her new F*^} ( Opps I meant Fiance ) oh, and a sidenote here, AND I AM IN NO WAY PREJUDICE. But 6 months after I leaft California, I got a call from my EX, She told me that he , ( Her New Husband ) Emptied out thier JOINT Bank Account, For a total of OVER $ 42,000.00 And an unknown amount from his PERSONAL, PRIVATE ACCOUNT ! And had gone back to Mexico " To be with His REAL WIFE " !! Sorry but, DARN KARMA is GREAT !! And, NO, TRUCK DRIVERS, for the most part DO NOT make alot of $. Federal D.O.T. Regulations and ELECTRONIC LOGS have made it all but IMPOSSIBLE to make it a lucrative proposition in " Modern " times. Back in the 60's you could make good money, But that was 50+ Years ago. And , ( I'm almost done " Rambling on " ) When I decided to" Come Home " To Montana, It was at the NUMEROUS pleading Phone calls of my Mom, And Family.... Mostly Mom, But at the Time, Dad's Health was failing and Mom wanted me HOME to be with her and Dad, To keep Dad from over exerting himself and take over the duties of caring for the House, Property, ETC. So I came Home , I had forgotten the realities of Montana life, Especially financially, And by the time Dad ( Sadly ) Passed, And my " Family " Sold off all his and*Mom's possessions, And eventually put Mom in a " Retirement Home, 200 miles away, I*had been officially " Off The Grid " For too long to Find a Viable source of " LEGITIMATE, ON THE BOOKS " Income, So now I am in " Servival mode" and basically a self employed, " Off The Grid " Horticulturist.

[CarlaWestin]

Well, Vici. As stated in your original post, you benefited from 'grabbing the bull by the horns'.
And, being single would probably give me too much Carla time.
Of course I would try to deal with it the best I could.
:straightface:

Is there any way to support yourself without the roommate?
You gotta' enjoy life while you can, ya' know.

[arbon]

I think your fears are worse then reality. I used to have similar fears where I live small town Idaho where I transitioned but I lived to tell the tale. And I have bee through your area several times sense visiting other trans women up there. Two of my best friends live in Missoula one does not pass well we go out and do stuff. I've actually been considering moving there like it so much.

I used to be around the types that talked about about lgbt to the point of even wanting a hunting season guess what ? Bunch of cowards at the end of the day and they leave me alone. Others changed their minds and attitudes because of me.hard to hate someone you personally know. And when they see the guts it takes being you they know they have nothing.

[Pat]

Life's been an adventure so far, sounds like. ;) But you are making choices -- you're not being "forced" to be in the closet. I only say that since it might help you feel better if you acknowledge that you're making the choice. And it's your choice to make. When you're one of us there are costs to coming out of the closet and costs to staying in -- seems like there's no choice that comes for free. Good luck.

[sometimes_miss]

Kind of glad you wrote this thread today, sweetvici; I've been considering retiring to a more rural, less expensive location. You reminded me that I really shouldn't, as most rednecks aren't known for their compassionate nature regarding us 'deviants'.

[sweetvici]

This is my response to ( sometimes_miss ) Please don't make a life decision based on my personal perspectives/experience, Given better circumstances, I am sure that I would have a HOLE DIFFERENT list of experiences to share. There are aspects of this rural setting that I would NEVER trade for a life away from here.Missoula is not that far away from where I am, And there are lots of avenues there for our type of" Self expression. Unfortunately for me, My personal life and circumstances, Just prohibit My exploration currently. I am sure in time, That will change. A person just has to be EXTREMELY discrete in these types of areas where PHOBIAS and Paranoid, people that WONT except anything they dont understand.Fear of the unknown is a common factor in their lives. And I just accept that, And hope for the day that I can have the best of all the living here does have to offer.Peace and quiet are wonderful aspects of this area. No law enforcement Helicopter's fly over this area along with less pollution and a number of other qualities that we are afforded here. Just punting out, There's always going to be adjustments/Sacrifice involved ANY WHERE we choose to Call HOME !!

[arbon]

You like so many cross dressers build your own prison walls then say it is everyone else's fault you you can't be who you are. I say that from my own experience, from having broken out of the walls I built.

[reinasblack]

Some places ,some areas and some people are not friendly with CDing,transsexuals are transgender.

Even in Hollywood i ran across a restaraunt with a Arab are Muslim guy more then three times.
Hollywood is mostly accepting except for a few places

There is a new club on Hollywood Blvd with a name called GenderF**k and the owner does not want it there.

[sweetvici]

While it's true that " Sometimes we are in fact our own worst enimies " It is also true that it is NEVER prudent to put ourselves out there in known hostile environments, So arbon, While I truly appreciate all opinions and input, You need to understand that some things in life are best left alone. I am not for a second gong to even so much as consider throwing myself to the wolves that factually live in large concentrations in my area.

[Tracii G]

If Coming out is not a good idea don't !
You can loose the nasty roommate or two and get some better ones too.
Most people could care less what you do with your life and how you live it so dressing is really no big deal to them.
Friends well that can be different and we all know that.
I live in central Kentucky and we have tons of good old boys and rednecks and they don't give me any problems 99.9% of the time.
In fact I have run across a few big burly good old boys that enjoyed my company a few times as a date and not a sexual encounter mind you.
I see guys in gay bars that wreak of redneck you would never expect to even drive by a gay bar much less go in one.
Saying you are forced in a closet is caused by you not someone else.

[GBJoker]

Count me as another forced to stay in the closet.

Edit: I would explain my situation, but last time that didn't work out so well.

[sweetvici]

I figured I would get a lot of people who have been ( For whatever reasons ) through some of the experiences I have. THANKS FOR RESPONDING.

[arbon]

You need to understand that some things in life are best left alone. I am not for a second gong to even so much as consider throwing myself to the wolves that factually live in large concentrations in my area.

why say you are FORCED in the closet? You choose it. And you have Missoula right there which is a great little city with a lot of trans people! but....

You can stay in your closet and cry and complain about it how unfair it is or take some control of your life and be happy.

[Megan G]

Arbon is right on the mark, not one of you is FORCED to stay in the closet. No one is and telling you that if you come out of that closet they will....whatever

Every person here has the ability to choose how they need and want to live their life. It's called free will. Yes there are consequences for each decision you make. Yes if you come out someone might tease you, call you names, attach you or even worse murder you. But those things happen daily even to people who are not CD's or TS's. You could also loose your friends and loved ones because of it, again a consequence of an action.

At the end of the day people who are in the closet have chosen to be there for any number of reasons. And yes they can be very good reasons but your in the closet because you CHOOSE to be there and stay in there.

[Tina_gm]

I too live in a not so accepting area. Maybe not quite as intolerant as where you live, but its pretty rough here in my town. As others have said, you feeling trapped or forced into a closet is of your own doing. Having said that, I make the choice to stay in the closet. My life overall is a good one. It is a life I do not want to see altered to any great extent. But I do have the choice to alter it. In many ways, those of us who struggle with the choice to alter it set ourselves up by creating our life to not be very accessible to gender variance within ourselves. Then later on we have to make a harder choice to alter our relationships with the people we know and love, and perhaps relocate, or just cause a lot of upheaval in the life we have. But still, it is a choice, and if you feel at this point in life it is worth making, then you should.

[PretzelGirl]

I will be another that says you can only choose to be in a closet. Heck, I live in ultra conservative Utah. It took a member of this board to take me out of my house and show me that it can be done to get me going. At that time I realized that all the walls keeping me in my house were constructed by me. Yes, coming out of the closet may have repercussions. Life has repercussions with everything we do. You have to decide what is important to you and if it is important enough, you will tear the walls down. Do you want to love life or regret the years you have lived?

Self imposed prisons are the worst...

[Lorileah]

and how did that work out for you Sue? :)

People complain that "they" as in the neighbors, the town, society (add jobs, church, the pet dog) make them stay hidden. All those things are things that if you all stood up and said enough, could be changed or minimized. But it's easier to stay in the closet. Well, easier for everyone around you, not so much for you.

[Jenniferathome]

I think it's funny how everyone thinks they live in a "non-accepting" location.

To offer some perspective, I have never seen a cross dresser in San Francisco nor anywhere in California unless we were out together. I have seen more cross dressers in Idaho (3) than in California! My point is that we cross dressers are still quite unique. The average normal has not seen a cross dresser in real life. Every occasion is a unique experience for them.

I think acceptance by the normals is based on them having an understanding that the world is not just full of normals. This does not mean that I will be welcome anywhere I go, but I certainly do not expect to be tarred and feathered. I think our attitude while out is the primary influencer in being "accepted." The normals may not get it, but if you behave like you belong and are comfortable with yourself, the people around you feed on that.

[Tina_gm]

I think one of the biggest factors about being closeted is need. Obviously, someone who is TS and feels there is no other way to live a happy peaceful content life than to in some way live as the woman they identify themselves as being. So their "need" pretty much dictates there be no closet. For CDers it varies greatly. How good is your life other than the gender variance. If life generally does not have much to hold you back, then not much to lose. If it does have a lot to hold you back, then the "need" to express the gender variance is the deciding factor.

Regardless of where someone is on the spectrum of TG, just about all of us do go through acceptance and discovery. From there our lives branch off in different directions. Most of us will have to alter our lives to some degree in order to fulfill whatever our needs our for our authentic selves gender wise. The higher the need, the more it is worth making alterations to the life we were living once that process of acceptance and discovery starts, or at least starts in earnest anyway.

It isn't always necessarily cowardice that keeps someone in the closet, it can easily be a good life overall combined with a need that is not as strong as some others.

[Jenniferathome]

...It isn't always .... that keeps someone in the closet, it can easily be a good life overall combined with a need that is not as strong as some others.

Then one is not "trapped" or "forced" into a closet, are they? The OP is clearly stating something quite different. Vici desperately wants out, but claims to be "forced into a closet."

[Tina_gm]

True Jennifer, but in their current situation, not the past but definitely the current one, it would appear she is not really all that trapped. I think she is frustrated, but the need is not so overwhelming that she finds a way out of the closet. If and when the need becomes strong enough, she will find a way out. We can offer help of course, if anything just to let people know that the situation is not as dire as it may appear. And helpful ways to be able to be out, yet not drastically alter their life in the process.

TS women will and have transitioned when it means the end of a marriage, job, their friends and family..... because the need for them to be authentic is strong enough that they go ahead with this. Whereas the CDer often has the closet because the need to change their life, not even anywhere near as drastic is not there. Frustrating as it may be at times, but it isn't a true need. What I really am just trying to convey is that we sometimes can accept whatever our limitations are, and that keeping the life we have and want intact is not always just cowardice.

[arbon]

But those very same people would just as quickly, " Jump into Action " to Ostracize a Crossdresser, Transgender, ETC.

I'm curious - say me and my girlfriend stopped in Corvallis for the weekend to do some fishing or something, and these people realized we were queer as hell and jumped into action against us. You see it happening, what would you do? Stand and watch silently? or would you stand up for us?

[PretzelGirl]

and how did that work out for you Sue? :)

Everybody needs a Kathi Lake to get confidence! I have never had a problem. Perspective is an amazing thing.

[Pat]

You have to decide what is important to you and if it is important enough, you will tear the walls down. Do you want to love life or regret the years you have lived?

:yt: Testify, sister!

And yet, I can't help but think that we're not bringing news to the OP. We're not saying anything she doesn't know internally. Maybe she's looking to shake things up?


I think it's funny how everyone thinks they live in a "non-accepting" location.

I have several times had people tell me how unaccepting the area I live in is. It's freakin' Massachusetts! I'm out walking around living my life and "fooling" exactly nobody. But they have the fear in them and it makes them seek reasons they can't be free and the common reasons are often "stranger danger" or a life that's going to tailspin into destruction. Nobody can prove it won't happen, so that's where they focus. My heart breaks for them, but my advice is always the same -- if you feel that you have to hide, then hide. Do what's "right" for you. But be open to changing your view.

[GBJoker]

It is unbelievably frustrating to hear people say I'm "choosing" to stay in the closet. I've had guys tell me they'll rape me the second they get me alone. Females say I'm disgusting and need to be removed from society. And this is a majority of interactions. The rest are indifferent. That's "forced" as far as I'm concerned.

Should I be looked down upon for not being willing to take some damage to "further the cause" or whatever? I don't know. I don't care. I'm not going to change any time soon.

[arbon]

I thought you were already out of the closet Joker?

[PretzelGirl]

I don't think anyone as said anything about furthering the cause. The only thing furthered by getting out is your own well being. You can paint a scary picture, and many of us get it, but being in the closet is totally a choice up to the point someone hog ties you and throws you in it.

[Lorileah]

Wow Joker. Where do you hang out? Maybe you need to go somewhere else. I have never ever been threatened like that in any form. And although on occasion I will will get some sideways looks, women don't tell me I need to be removed. What kind of area do you live where people can be so vehement?

[GBJoker]

Arbon: To those I've known for more than a decade, yes. To any new people? Definitely deep in the closet. And I highly doubt I'll ever come out to any one I meet in the future.

Sue: Threat of violence is force. The examples are obvious.

Lorileah: School, work, bars, restaurants, etc. Places every one hangs out.

[Sharon B.]

We all build some type of wall around ourselves and are afraid to knock it down for whatever reason.

[PretzelGirl]

Fear is a powerful thing. I get it. It is tough to overcome and the longer it is around, the more it grows without additional reasons for it to be more. It still comes from within.