Mind your Ps & Qs

[Nigella]

This thread is in direct response to those who believe they have the right to espouse "experience" but just do not have a clue.

This is the wording used by the Crossdressers.com website to identify its purpose
#1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends.

The TS forum is a sub forum of Crossdressers.com and is defined as
This section is for all members to post in, however, topics are restricted to Transsexual specific items and for Transsexuals to share their experiences.

For the purposes of this sub forum a Transexual is
An individual who is changing their assigned birth gender permanently to that of the opposite.

This has everything to do with gender and nothing to do with clothing, accoutrements etc of the opposite gender.

Another sub forum of this website is Male to Female Crossdressers and is defined as
This section is for those interested in discussing all areas of male to female crossdressing.

Cross-dressing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-dressing) is the act of wearing items of clothing and other accoutrements commonly associated with the opposite sex within a particular society, it has nothing whatsoever to do with gender.

By definition this makes TS's binary in their gender. This sub forum has no place for those who argue that they are gender fluid and try to give a personal experience on the issues of being TS, this also is the same for those who are "straight forward" crossdressers.

Your personal opinion should be respected, as long as you make it clear it just an opinion. To put it simply, if you are not TS, your "personal experience of "TS specific issues" count for nothing. This is a tough life for a large majority of the TS community, they need REAL LIFE experience, not fantasies.

[Jennifer-GWN]

:go: thank you!!!

[Rianna Humble]

It would appear that we are getting a small number of members trolling here or claiming that we are being nasty to them because they don't agree with the definition of transsexual.

Like numerous other regular members of this forum, I too have gender-non-conforming and non-binary friends. In real life, of course, they would be the first to say that their experience is different to mine. It helps no one when certain people to try to change the definition of what it means to be transsexual.

We are not being nasty here, all members are welcome to contribute when it is appropriate, but if a member starts a thread and asks for (for example) TS responses, we will only go by the forum definitions to judge whether a member's post is appropriate.

However, there are only so many hours in a day and unfortunately, the moderators and admins cannot currently devote 96 hours a day each to this forum, so we do need members to help us by reporting inappropriate contributions and by refraining from feeding the trolls.

Help us to help you. If you are unsure about something Nigella and I are normally only a PM away. It is better to ask than to get upset.

[GretchenJ]

Makes total sense to me!! Thank you for the post, luckily I claim to be an expert in nothing :)

I DO know that I am transgender (but closeted ) , my condition is greater than those of a crossdresser, but know I can not speak of expert advice for anyone who is TS or need advice only fro a TS. I will still offer my support and an ear for anyone who needs to vent, someone who is in pain, or someone who wishes to share some good news.

Maybe some day down the line an TG forum may be created for us "tweeners"

thanks much Nigella!

[KymberlyOct]

Thanks Nigella and Rianna and thank you again for your work. As someone that is just starting to transition I look for the advice of people that have lived it to provide me info so I can reach my own conclusion. To that end I appreciate the more senior members that call BS when it seems appropriate. At the same time there has been IMHO unnecessary bickering between members. I hope that these are just a bit of a dust up and that members can take a breather before posting a reply that has a lot of attitude or defensiveness. The more senior members are hanging around to help us. I for one don't want them chased off by people giving them unnecessary headaches or grief. JUST SAYIN.

[STACY B]

:yrtw::yrtw::yrtw: Yea,, Now the Queen has Spoken,, Bout time,, I agree 1000% there is no Deviation from what is going on here,, It is what it is and that's it !! You gotta conform to the one thing that is going on here and not get away from the subject and try an sway people to your ways,, Like she said ,, Changing from one gender to another period.

[PretzelGirl]

I thank you for the clarity Nigella and Rianna. For all, it isn't that I don't want to hear from everyone, but speaking authoritatively on TS related topics really requires experience. I probably have been more combative lately than I ever have been. Between all that is going on in my life and watching friends bail from here, I certainly was putting up the defenses (sorry Kym, I am not normally that way). Not many hang around after completing transition so building up that experience, when lost, takes some time. This isn't something that just one person's thoughts give you all they need. The breadth of input is important.

Likewise, I was participating in this subforum long before deciding to transition. I had one member that would constantly yell about my posting. The difference is that posts never were stating what it was like to be TS but were either questions or messages of support. And I clearly stated where I was at so I didn't misrepresent myself. It is an easy thing really.

Our community (from the umbrella perspective) is very large and diverse. As someone who works all the time in the community, I speak to being transsexual. I get into spaces others haven't been in before. But once there, I don't try and talk about the experiences of non-binaries, youth, parents, etc as those aren't my experiences. I get attention with high level statistics and introducing topics and then ask to bring in people with those experiences. There is too much going on here for anyone to be an expert in all areas. So we need to open doors for others and allow them to speak of their experiences.

[PaulaQ]

So there is no place for non-binary trans people to discuss their gender identity and expression thereof on the forum here?

Wouldn't it solve some problems possibly if they had a sub forum? I ask with all due respect, in the spirit of reducing conflict.

[GretchenJ]

So there is no place for non-binary trans people to discuss their gender identity and expression thereof on the forum here?

Wouldn't it solve some problems possibly if they had a sub forum? I ask with all due respect, in the spirit of reducing conflict.

To be perfectly honest and frank and somewhat of a relative newbie, at first I mixed up TG and TS when I first came here and started posting. When my "condition" was limited (or I thought it was ) limited to crossdressing, the cd site and the sub sites contained all the information and support and advice that I was looking for.

After I found out I was actually TG, after some enlightening sessions from my therapist, I was looking for different information and advice based upon mostly gender fluidity and dysphoria. I post sometimes in the TS forum because some of the members there where where I was at before they transitioned full time, as well as in the CD section.

i was a member of Safe Haven for a while, but quickly learned that this did not match my current situation and unenrolled

Not to give you guys more work, but I think that Paula is 100% correct, that a non binary or TG sub forum may help reduce the conflict that occurs from time to time in that people think that they are TS but they are not. The Cd forums would act on the physical level (clothes, makeup, deportment, outings, interactions, marriage, etc ) , whilst this new forum could deal with the emotional issues dealing with gender dysphoria, balancing two lives, etc.

Just my opinion, and by no means looking to stir another debate

Gretch

[PaulaQ]

BTW, given the thread title, I thought I was in trouble! ;)

[Nikki.]

another vote (are we voting??) for a new subforum. I'm not TS, but have a wobbly gender compass that is sometimes more wobbly than other times, and CDing is a means to an end, not the end. Just not that interested in 90% of the topics in the CD specific forum, and while I find it interesting, don't fit in this forum :)

[Nigella]

Maybe some day down the line an TG forum may be created for us "tweeners"



So there is no place for non-binary trans people to discuss their gender identity and expression thereof on the forum here?

Wouldn't it solve some problems possibly if they had a sub forum? I ask with all due respect, in the spirit of reducing conflict.



Not to give you guys more work, but I think that Paula is 100% correct, that a non binary or TG sub forum may help reduce the conflict that occurs from time to time in that people think that they are TS but they are not. The Cd forums would act on the physical level (clothes, makeup, deportment, outings, interactions, marriage, etc ) , whilst this new forum could deal with the emotional issues dealing with gender dysphoria, balancing two lives, etc.

Just my opinion, and by no means looking to stir another debate

Gretch


another vote (are we voting??) for a new subforum. I'm not TS, but have a wobbly gender compass that is sometimes more wobbly than other times, and CDing is a means to an end, not the end. Just not that interested in 90% of the topics in the CD specific forum, and while I find it interesting, don't fit in this forum :)

I knew that this particular point would come up :)

There appears to be a mistaken belief that this website is dealing with gender issues. I was quite particular when I pointed out the differences between the Male to Female forum (M2F) and the TS forum. One is to discuss the act of wearing the clothing of the opposite gender, for whatever purpose, the other is to discuss the issues of changing gender, two very different issues. The website overall is not a site for discussing gender issues.

If the moderators of the M2F allow the discussion of gender in that forum, so be it, this post was to point out that enough is enough, gender fluidity has no place in the TS forum and that there is a need to share REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE.

Having typed all that, we do have a forum (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?6-Forum-Issues-Help-and-News) for discussing the website
This is where you can ask the staff any questions you may have about the forum. All site news and announcements will be posted here.. If anyone believes that there is a need for a forum for discussing non binary gender, feel free to start a new thread, however, be aware that a good case would need to be presented, not just a desire.


BTW, given the thread title, I thought I was in trouble! ;)

Like it :)

[Pat]

OK, so I'm taking hormones, under care of a gender counselor, enduring electrolysis but because I'm not claiming to be binary I have nothing to share? Got it. Thanks.

[Nigella]

What you share on this forum is up to you, it is quite clear that the forum is available for all to post in. This is not about sharing, it is about REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE (RLE), by your post you have RLE in the areas of gender councelling and HRT, electrolysis is another matter as this is not TS specific and has no place in the TS forum anyway.

[Rianna Humble]

OK, so I'm taking hormones, under care of a gender counselor, enduring electrolysis but because I'm not claiming to be binary I have nothing to share? Got it. Thanks.

It is this kind of confrontational tone rather than reading and understanding what is being said in the thread overall that can easily become problematic.

As Nigella has stated, this forum is open for all to post in about Transsexual issues (see the definition that will be applied in the forum sticky). If you are replying to a thread and wish to contribute something from your experiences in real life, then your contributions will not only be welcome but also helpful.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Yes

i hope all posters take the time and care to actually read posts and understand them before responding ...i have made that mistake and i watch out for that...

I hope lots of non binary people post.. its helpful to explore experience and highlight it for folks that are unsure and questioning.
I beleive non binary gendered people are a mix of searchers and questioners, and people that have figured themselves out just like transsexuals...