Assuming a CD is Homosexual

[JanetM.]

Greetings all. I am a straight male who has over 25 years of closet crossdressing. I venture out solo in public on rare occasions and when away from my hometown. I'm happily married and have no interest in males. When dressed as Janet, the rush and excitement of being someone totally different is exciting and addictive. My question is pretty basic: Why do most people think because someone crossdresses they are automatically gay? I always believed gay guys were interested in guys and not women in short skirts or tight jeans. If anything, I would think a homosexual female would be more attracted to a male crossdresser; Does this make any sense? The idea that all crossdressers are interested in guys is not logical to me. I think if you wanted to develop a relationship with a gay guy, you would need to ditch the fem clothes, wear your muscleman shirt and Old Spice aftershave. I hope I am not offending anyone here. I have the greatest respect for all of you but I'm just curious how you think others perceive you; I know it really doesn't matter.

[Pattie]

Precisley what I think, I am not Gay or Bi. I like women, but I have no interest in getting married or going out with any body on a date. I do go out with close friends to Night Clubs, not glbt ones but very nice and couple friendly.

[Dana44]

Janet, Crosdressers don't think they are gay. Only the bigot's do say that out of ignorant and curse every one else with prejudice. But you will find that most like ninety nine percent are heterosexual. Most others that I have met perceive me as a woman or a feminine male.

[Tina_gm]

Why does this question always pop up as some surprise or non understanding of why people in general think this way. 1st, what is the way in which most people have seen a male dressed as a woman? A drag queen, and let's be honest about this, almost all draq queens are very very gay. I am not going to say ALL, but the truth is, a big majority of them. Where do you find drag shows? in gay bars mostly... Where is it that CDers go that they usually feel safest? in a gay bar. We are part of the LGBT. The 1st three letters stand for same sex attraction. In movies and television, crossdressed men have been portrayed as gay in just about every case. Look for transgender porn and.....

I could go on using examples about this. How is it not obvious that people are generally going to conclude this? all sign point to yes on this as for what people have seen or experienced.

[Meghan4now]

Well, GM is of course spot on (as usual). I like to think that it is similar to lots of people being afraid of my dogs. The latest dog, I'll cut them slack on. She's a German Shepard, and a very pleasant and playful dog. But strangers are scared. There experience says police dog, guard dog, ferocious. My old dog was a Malamute, sweetest dog alive. Blind in one eye. But when she would escape (often) and have a field day in the neighborhood, certain neighbors would be terrified by "That Wolf Dog". Other dog owning neighbors knew her and would laugh. Their schnauzer or scottie was a lot more ferocious.

[CONSUELO]

Forget about categories and stereotypes. Cross dressers and gays are spread across a wide spectrum of sexual likes and orientations. I know gays who do not find cross dressers interesting and other gays who do. I know cross dressers who are gay, others who are bi- and many who are only interested sexually in women.
People tend to pigeonhole others. It's easy to do and avoids the necessity of thinking and communicating. Does it really matter?--NO

[Alice Torn]

Often, CDs dress as attractive women, and what gets guys attention, usually? Attractive women. Janet makes an interesting point, in wondering why lesbians are not more interested in very feminine looking CDs. I would guess many lesbians are looking for the butch look lesbians, but some aren't. Some look for traditional looking feminine lesbians. Maybe when they find we are really crossdressing males, they quickly drop interest.

[Karmen]

I think a lot of people who don't know anything about crossdressing really automatically think that crossdressers are gay men who have female role in the gay relationship.

[Tracii G]

That assumption has been around forever and its not likely going to change.
Most gay guys I know are not remotely interested in a guy that CDs but do tolerate them in primarily gay bars but trust me they will talk about them and make light of them.
Just not to their faces of course.
I would love to find a guy that would be cool and not mind me being transgender. Gay guys don't understand TG ism as much as straight people so their reaction is pretty much the same.
Karmen that line of thought really bothers me when people say that. Why does one have to be the male and one the female in a relationship?
Its ignorance again because a gay man wants a man not a woman but people just don't seem to get the concept.

[reinasblack]

The stereotype that a man does manly stuff and a manly man/macho man is not into girly stuff unless he likes men. Also in the public view of things like social interaction ,men dress up as women to attract men.

Its simplifier to define a man as gay who crossdresses.
Men who like transsexuals as gay is simplier.


There is an article called
The chaser chaser
Defined as gay men who dress up as TS/CD to attract men who want a CD/TS.

[Karmen]

(edit @Tracii)

I don't know why, but probably because they look on any relationship as a copy of usual heterosexual relationship. I noticed a few times already that when people I know commented on gay couples, the one who looks more femine, is much smaller or act more softly, is automaticly labeled as a "female" in the relationship.

[LilSissyStevie]

Crossdressing has a long association with homosexual prostitution going back to ancient times. The drag queen tradition grew out of that. Most straight dudes didn't care as long as it was a reasonable facsimile of a female. Besides, you weren't homosexual unless you were the receiver. The concept of "gay" is very recent. Until the 1960's gender expression and sexual attraction were tightly bound together. Look at this from a historical viewpoint and then it makes sense.

[Teresa]

Janet,
I'm going to pick up Gendermutt's comment about media portrayal , so many depict CDers as very camp, lisping and gay. I sometimes wonder if they venture into the real World before they write the scripts !

As for the question, the assumption is if you dress like a woman you must have all the aspects of a woman and so prefer men. Some people find it hard to see beyond that. It's the point I make about tossing in more labels, we may understand them but the general public on the whole doesn't. If I tell someone I'm bi-gender and prefer women are they going to get it ? Maybe or maybe not, you'll still have to try and explain where the dressing comes into it. The same goes with dissuading people you're not gay, so what do the clothes mean, who are you trying to attract ?

[Tracii G]

The whole dressing to attract a mate thing is another misconception that people have.
My ex asked me once so when you dress as a woman who are you looking to attract a man or woman?
When I said neither she had a hard time understanding because of the old pre conceived notion that CDers are after a sexual encounter.
I explained it and she said Oh well that makes sense I just never looked at it that way.
I explained so much to her and now she totally gets it which is nice.
I would not want to be married to her again tho' thats for sure.

[Sarasometimes]

Being included with GLB doesn't help with stop the misconception and the media and meat-headed macho men help keep it going. I'm strictly heterosexual. Gender and sexual attraction are seperate and unrelated as all here should know.

[char GG]

Often, CDs dress as attractive women, and what gets guys attention, usually? Attractive women.

Simply put, I think people who don't know anything about CDing assume this. They seem to think CDers dress like women to attract a man - therefore, gay.

I'm not saying that is correct but it widely believed by non-CDers. My husband gets this question all of the time and are quite surprised to find out the he is married. They are even more surprised if I'm with him and find out that I'm his wife.

[Tiffany Jane]

We walk through our lives among others that paint pictures for us what social convention dictates us to believe is true. And when we feel differently than that in our own self on our own time it makes us second guess ourselves. By second guessing ourselves, we give power to those who we feel would be judging of the way we wish to express ourselves knowing they have already determined how we will be accepted through their discussion of things they cast their opinion on that we may take a likeness too.

It is the beginning of social anxiety that develops inside, believing we already know the outcome to our place among society. Not by having been judged ourselves, but judged through the experiences of others. It is the strength of an individual to be part of society regardless of what we know or believe the outcome will be, because we know in our soul the answers to questions others may not take the time to ask or blow off telling us we are in denial.

It is the shadow of secrecy in which others see crossdressing as that allows their mind to question what else lies in the dusk of the closet.

Having found myself in the middle of the gender spectrum, it is the same social expectations that I have heard for years that allowed me to build a masculine fortress for my feminine side. Now that I am trying to tear the wall down and let myself be seen for the third gender I am, it still is difficult to know what people expect to see when I meet them, yet in many ways, they knew the whole me and didn't have a visual reference point to associate with all of me.

[BillieAnneJean]

I go OUT enfemme in public a lot. I get asked that most every time. Frequently the person will go on to ask me questions about some relative, friend, neighbor, or co worker. I don't mind. Think of those interactions as a way to educate the public that we in the broad trans category are accessible, open, friendly, and non threatening. Who knows, you may be helping a gay or trans person you may never meet.

[docrobbysherry]

Why r we so homophobic in the States? Even here at cd.com u see many protesting that they r straight. Who r they trying to convince? This "attraction" stuff is WAY more complicated than most folks understand.:eek:

Example 1:
I KNOW I'm straight. But, does that mean I'm not ever attracted to other dressers? No. There r a few that r so fem in their demeanor and nature that even if I'm not attracted to them, I'm intrigued! And, men that come on to me in a pleasant but persistent manner have flattered and interested me. Would I ever be alone with any of them? No. Because if we got past flirting, their parts turn me off! But, I can't deny the attraction.:o

Example 2:
There r quite a number of members here, and T's I've met in person, that swear they r straight but r attracted to other T's. Some say it's only when they r dressed.
I've met a number of men at clubs that claim to be straight but date dressers. :straightface:

The overwhelming number of T's I know online and in person say they r straight. I've met quite a few dressers who r bi but very few that say they r gay.

If I were u? I'd say, "Never say never". Because in the rite situation and with the rite person? In the end, U CAN'T HELP WHO U R ATTRACTED TO!:devil:

[Kate Simmons]

I wouldn't assume anyone is anything myself. There are always exceptions to any so called "rules" of behavior. Sometimes we are just people being people. :)

[ReineD]

I think it’s because people mostly live among and are accustomed to seeing heterosexual relationships. Although the gay community has made great strides in the last 20 years and gay men and women are more accepted now in many pockets of our society than they ever were, most people live and work among predominately heterosexual people. And people tend to read what they are familiar with into other people's motives.

… and so it’s a question of comparing apples to apples, the logic being that if women are attracted to men, then a man who wants to present as a woman must also be attracted to men ... especially if he dresses the way a woman would, who does want to attract a particular man.

[MichelleDevon]

I think this presumption is simply symptomatic of the general lack of knowledge about crossdressers that has been discussed elsewhere. I agree totally with the original poster that it seems utterly illogical to infer that because we dress to look feminine we must therefore be gay. If one were homosexual and seeking to attract another homosexual guy why on earth would you dress to look like a woman - this surely would be the least likely way to attract such a person.

My wife's immediate reaction when I finally told her about my crossdressing was to ask if I was gay. You might think that, after more than 25 years of marriage, she wouldn't feel the need to ask such a question but that merely serves to highlight the ignorance of people about us a group. So the onus is on us to educate "them out there". Ignorance often leads to bigotry in my experience so the solution to so much of the badmouthing and prejudice is to increase public awareness and knowledge of crossdressing.

Having said that, however, it is, of course, seldom so clear cut. I had always maintained that I was 100% heterosexual but...I find myself open to being attracted to some of my fellow crossdressers, even though I may know that they are really men. It seems that the brain is able to side-line that bit of information so that I can kiss, cuddle and "play" with another crossdresser. But that only happens to me when that CDer is in femme mode - meeting in male mode leaves me unmoved. Clearly the brain is in some way over-riding the knowledge of gender and saying this woman interests me. Whilst I have not had gay sex with a CDer we have certainly "played" very intimately!!! Does that make me gay? No, I don't think so - bi-sexual possibly.

Funny old life isn't it?

Keep enjoying it, I will

Michelle
xxx

[Krisi]

Janet, Crosdressers don't think they are gay. Only the bigot's do say that out of ignorant and curse every one else with prejudice. ...........

It's very wrong and insulting to say or think that anyone who thinks a crossdresser is gay is a bigot or ignorant. That's first question my wife (and many other crossdresser's wives) asked when I told her I was a crossdresser. My wife is far from a bigot and I think most normal folks are not bigots. They are not "ignorant" either, it's just that crossdressing is not something most folks are familiar with except for an occasional TV show or movie and it's not something they concern themselves with until they find someone close to them is one.

For the OP - We are crossdressers here so we aren't in a position to answer the question of why non crossdressers think crossdressers are gay. You would have to post your question to a group of non-crossdressers.

That said, there seem to be a surprising number of gay people on this forum and they don't mind talking about it so maybe we are gay and just don't know it.

[sometimes_miss]

Often, CDs dress as attractive women, and what gets guys attention, usually? Attractive women.
That's it in a nutshell. I'm not sure why there's any confusion about it. Women's outfits are almost always designed to accentuate the female body, and the primary reason is to attract a mate (whether anyone wants to admit that or not, it's been going on for at least 6000 years so I'll assume it's still the primary reason). The argument that many women love to give, 'I dress for myself, I want to look good, I'm not going to all this just to look good for some man!' is simply discarded by the fact that what women think makes them look good, just coincidentally is also the exact same look that attracts men. So whether it's their goal or not, that's what they're doing.
So when a guy goes through a lot of trouble to dress up like a woman, learn to talk like a woman, change his body mechanics to resemble those of a woman, it's a pretty easy conclusion that he's trying to be sexually attractive like a woman, and that means to be attractive to men. Now, what is the goal of being sexually attractive to men? Is it to feel the soft female clothing? Nope. Is it to feel the cool breeze on our legs when it's hot out? Nope. Get back to the simplest reason: it's to be sexually attractive to men. That's how the rest of the world reasons it out. They see us doing all the things that someone would do in order to be sexually attractive to men. So that's why they think that way.
Next, you have the big problem of explaining to those folks 'Then why do you crossdress, if you're not trying to attract men?'. And most crossdressers cannot come up with a decent reason that outsiders can understand. The explanations of how much more comfortable womens' clothing is simply doesn't make sense to ANYONE except another crossdresser; why? Because women's clothing is generally NOT more physically comfortable. Women who want to be comfortable do not hang around in corsets, bras, garter belts and stockings, wearing high heels. They don't wear all kinds of jewelry, spend an hour on their hair and make up to sit on their couch alone watching 'Real wives of Hooterville'.

WE DO. So it makes no sense at all to the outside world. They will not comprehend that WE feel more comfortable wearing all that stuff because we have a psychological need to do it, and we feel psychologically comfortable when dressed as women. Why not? Because of the old homophobia that's drilled into our heads from the moment we're self aware as children. For a boy, the worst possible thing is to be girly in any way. It's the biggest insult you can call a male, to infer that he's feminine.



Wondering why lesbians are not more interested in very feminine looking CDs.
Again, it simple if you look at it from a GENUINE woman's point of view (and that may include TS women as well). The sexes look for different things when looking for a mate. MEN are primarily concerned with appearance. WOMEN are not, they have a different priority list of what's important in a mate. The confusion only goes to show how so many men still 'don't get it', or maybe hear it, read it, but simply refuse to believe it. After all, if he's primarily interested in looks, that must mean everyone is, right? Again, NOPE.

Why r we so homophobic in the States?
Not just the states. While not always as militant 'anti-gay' as much of the red neck contingent, the homophobia stems from how we evolved. Tribes depended upon it's males to behave like males, and accept their responsibility on the battlefield as willing to defend themselves and their mates to the death. A breach in the line of battle could result in destruction of his tribe. So, remembering that the female sexual position is submissive, it is assumed that someone resembling a female in behavior or looks, would want to be submissive as well. Being submissive is not congruent with being a warrior.
Also, a male who is homosexual might be seen as a danger to the other soldiers, as if he forms a romantic relationship with another soldier, he might be more inclined to leave his post to go defend THAT soldier rather than stand his position and maintain the defensive line, again making his tribe more prone to being defeated by an enemy.

you see many protesting that they r straight. Who r they trying to convince?
They're trying to convince both themselves and others, because deep down inside, they cannot accept the possibility that they actually ARE attracted to men. You see this over and over; guys here writing about how they find men attractive 'but only when I'm dressed as a female'. They create an entire other personality in order to distance themselves from any homosexual feelings or behavior, even to the point of writing, 'Oh, that's not the 'real' me, that's [fill in the blank with their chosen female name]'.


This "attraction" stuff is WAY more complicated than most folks understand
Not really. We only make it seem complicated.

I KNOW I'm straight.
Yeah, that's what we all say. Here's Ron White's perspective on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTGXSdg0hEY


I agree totally with the original poster that it seems utterly illogical to infer that because we dress to look feminine we must therefore be gay.
I disagree. I see it a perfectly logical from a laymans' point of view.
then

I had always maintained that I was 100% heterosexual but...I find myself open to being attracted to some of my fellow crossdressers, even though I may know that they are really men.
And there's the perfect example of denial right there. Then they come up with all the excuses in order to distance themselves from the fact that they are attracted sexually to men, here:

It seems that the brain is able to side-line that bit of information so that I can kiss, cuddle and "play" with another crossdresser. But that only happens to me when that CDer is in femme mode - meeting in male mode leaves me unmoved. Clearly the brain is in some way over-riding the knowledge of gender and saying this woman interests me. Whilst I have not had gay sex with a CDer we have certainly "played" very intimately!!! Does that make me gay? No, I don't think so - bi-sexual possibly.
Let's face it; if you are turned on by the idea of having sex with a male, those are homosexual feelings. We can make all the excuses we want. It's fooling NO ONE other than ourselves.


We are crossdressers here so we aren't in a position to answer the question of why non crossdressers think crossdressers are gay.
I don't know, I don't think being a crossdresser stops anyone from being smart as well. I'm sure there are plenty of geniuses that are crossdressers. The old saying that you can't understand something if you are 'too close to the problem' is baloney. A smart person knows when there's something that might interfere with their train of thought, and does their best to compensate for it.

That said, there seem to be a surprising number of gay people on this forum and they don't mind talking about it so maybe we are gay and just don't know it.
Some are, some are not. A big problem we have is that so many are so terrified of finding out that they really do have homosexual feelings, that they won't even try to find out why they feel that way. They just want to chalk it up to 'I was born that way' and leave it at that, happily wanting to have sex with men but thinking that by creating a female person to apply those feelings to, relieves them of any connection to those horrible, terrible homosexual feelings.

We have to get over it. There's nothing wrong with being gay. Or bi. or liking whatever kink you enjoy. It's not our fault, we were brought up that way. But we're now adults, and can accept reality, even if those we know and love, aren't yet able to. So sometimes we have to stay in the closet, in order to 'keep the peace' with those OTHER homophobic folks.

[Lorileah]

once again semantics and definitions

ig·no·rant
ˈiɡnərənt/
adjective
adjective: ignorant

lacking knowledge or awareness

Don't confuse ignorance with stupidity. Ignorant people can learn. You are ignorant if you don't understand something.

[Meghan4now]

Lori: Ding, ding ding! Correct!

Now excuse me while I round up the three crossdressers that just escaped through the front door.

[CONSUELO]

Following up on Lorileah's comment on ignorance, we should all remember that we know so little about this enigma we call cross dressing. The psychologists don't really understand it despite their many, though admittedly rather limited studies, and we tend to base our opinions and "knowledge" on our personal experience and those of a few others we might know well.
It is any wonder that most of society does not really understand us when we don't really understand ourselves. We should all remember to practice some humility in the face of such overwhelming ignorance (that is, "not knowing).

[Helen_Highwater]

The question is:

Why do most people think because someone cross-dresses they are automatically gay?

It's because historically gay men have been portrayed as effeminate. You don't have to have seen the recent film about the Kray twins, Legend, to know that this is a gross distortion. Gays like any group of people are drawn from a broad cross section. However the power of the media leaves an indelible mark upon people's psyche. Even the recent film, The Dallas Buyer's Club, portrayed a Trans character as a drug dependent sex worker.

It's hard to think of a positive role model that's been portrayed by the mainstream media that accurately depicts, and I hesitate to use this phrase, what the average CD'er is actually like. Let's face it, it's not going to be box office to show someone who works a nine to five, comes home to a wife and 2.5 children, and then goes out in a dress to have a quiet drink with others while wearing a dress before going home to go to work like everyone else the next day.

[Meghan4now]

Helen, you have a point, but I So want to see that film!

[paranoidfish]

An ex was fine with my cross dressing until I started to wear breast forms, she immediately leaped to the conclusion that I wanted to transition to a woman.

[Jacqueline Vivaldi]

It is 2016 and I believe that the biggest problem that we have is we still make a big deal of the "Gay" concept. I think that we should realize that all people are different and have many gender orientations. We don't need labels anymore. This evolves throughout ones life and we should be very natural about our evolution. In my mid forties, I realized that wearing a dress made me feel very special. In the following years, I learned all of the important things in becoming female. I did all of the physical things to make me look and feel feminine. I pass very well, but the important thing is that I feel like a woman, period. I am attracted to men, because I feel so feminine. It does't make any sense to ME to do all of the things to be female and not be fulfilled as a woman. Not all trans women feel that way, and that is perfect for them (if they have truly given considerable thought to the question of who they really are.).

I think that a good course for us is to be natural and very thoughtful in finding out where we are on this rainbow, and we should disregard the biases of nomenclature. It is to me so delightful to look glamorous, walk down the street with a handsome man, gently holding hands while we have dinner; and if there is a many faceted attraction, I think that it is logical and reasonable and exciting to fulfill your feminine self.

Understand yourself and be your self, whatever you are.
Jacqueline

[Tina_gm]

Jacqueline- you stating your attraction to men because you are so feminine.... and what about feminine women who are attracted to women? are they not still allowed to be feminine too? and what about masculine gay men? Maybe they still like to feel masculine yet are sexually attracted to men too.

FWIW- I do believe that when it comes to people within the transgender spectrum, there IS a higher percentage that in some way or another has same sex attraction or at least curiosity/fantasy of it. It also appears that TS women are far more likely to have attraction to men. Although there are plenty who still are attracted only to women even after every available way there is of transition and some continue their marriages.

[ReineD]

Janet makes an interesting point, in wondering why lesbians are not more interested in very feminine looking CDs.

That's because lesbians are into women. A male who wears women's clothing is still male.

[CONSUELO]

I endorse what Jacqueline Vivaldi posted. Its time we got over this labelling nonsense. Gay, bi-, hetero- whatevero- Just be yourself and treat others kindly.

[Tracii G]

Alice because lesbians are only interested in women like reine said.
The level of homophobia here is actually higher than you would think.
I am done with labels and all the goofy I feel so girly in hose threads.

[Jacqueline Vivaldi]

Just to respond to Gendermutt- It has always been my belief that all of us have a position on the Rainbow of diversity of genders, and for me, I love the position that all of us take relative to our sexual or non-sexual behavior. If one has given due thought as to who they are currently (this may change with time), I find it is beautiful that we involve ourselves in any sexual behavior so long as it is not harmful to others or OURSELVES.

Secondly, It has been my observation from several forums that Trans women generally state that they have no interest in sexual relations with men. This is OK with me, but I find it hard to understand from where I stand. My problem (a little one).

- - - Updated - - -

To AliceD and Rein Torn's points. I think that when I am really dressed up and looking good, I am a woman,and the thought never comes to me that I am any kind of man. Secondly, I have wondered why gay men are totally disinterested in attractive Trans females. The reason is that they like men just as lesbians like girls. That is just fine. The really shocking things that I have observed by my time spent in public places, mostly from bars, is that absolutely normal women are extremely attracted to me. Even in the presence of their husbands, they simply can't , in a subtle way, keep their hands off me. There is our rainbow again, and I love it.

[krissy]

my current wife i have been married to for 38 years used to be with women before me, said she loved being with women but after the night i met her she told a girl i know she wanted to get with me in my mind i was like this should be a win win . boy was i wrong the first time her and her friend did me up after they finished i couldn't be leave how bad-ass i looked she freaked out told me she didnt want to ever see me that way now Im in a dadt relationship it sucks.but i thought i had it made with a girl like her because she liked girls but alas didnt work now i face going out to meet others like me where were all the help and support back then i missed out on so much

[Nikkilovesdresses]

I can see that the average hetero guy would look at a male CD and in the simplistic way many of them regard females, think, 'They must be trying to attract me, therefore they're gay'.

What's more interesting is how women perceive us. I have far less intuition about their perception of us.

Reine??

[Ashley090]

I think one of reasons is that people asume that one person in gay relationship having a "female role" and when see CDer they asume that he/she is that one with fem role. I guess.
Also there is thing about creating labels for anyone out of ordinary. In my country, for whatever reason, any guy who do anything little bit girly and not exactly asociated with males is called out as gay no matter sexual orientation or gender or sex.

[ellbee]

I can see that the average hetero guy would look at a male CD and in the simplistic way many of them regard females, think, 'They must be trying to attract me, therefore they're gay'.

It's the same thing that shows the difference between how women & men view yoga pants/leggings, for example.


GG's: Comfy, soft, convenient, versatile, cute, no see-thru issues, how they fit, long-lasting, how they perform while exercising, etc.

Men: Woohoo! :confused3:

[Mayo]

The stereotype that a man does manly stuff and a manly man/macho man is not into girly stuff unless he likes men. Also in the public view of things like social interaction ,men dress up as women to attract men.
These are actually two different things, though they are related. Masculinity is often very tightly constrained, meaning some things will generally cause you to lose your 'man card' instantly - one of those is MSM (men having sex with men), another is crossdressing. And if you aren't a man, then you must be a woman. If you aren't physically female, the next closest category is gay man (who are commonly thought of as 'effeminate', or woman-like - see how that works?).


FWIW- I do believe that when it comes to people within the transgender spectrum, there IS a higher percentage that in some way or another has same sex attraction or at least curiosity/fantasy of it. It also appears that TS women are far more likely to have attraction to men.
It has been my observation from several forums that Trans women generally state that they have no interest in sexual relations with men.
I'd agree that the percentage of bi/curious people is higher in those who are gender-nonconforming. I'm not sure about same-gender-attracted (referring here to pre-transition/assigned gender), but given our inability to accurately estimate the percentage in the cisgender population, even a doubling would still be difficult to discern (e.g. from 2% to 4%). That said, I agree with Jacqueline - my impression is that trans women are more likely to be attracted to women (remember also that gender identity and sexual orientation are not necessarily dependent on each other).

[ellbee]

"If you aren't physically female, the next closest category is gay man (who are commonly thought of as 'effeminate', or woman-like...)"


That's only because those gay males who are like that are simply more "visible" & obvious to pretty much everyone. They're probably more likely to be "out," too.


But if those who think that way would ever step foot in a gay bar/club? I think they'd be in for a bit of surprise -- there are a lot of big manly dudes out there who you'd have no idea were gay! :eek:

[Mayo]

That's quite true - gay men, like men in general, come in all types. I'm talking about the common stereotype of gay men, though - the one that specifically presents gay men as non-masculine/effeminate.

[Michelle Girl]

It's the same thing that shows the difference between how women & men view yoga pants/leggings, for example.


GG's: Comfy, soft, convenient, versatile, cute, no see-thru issues, how they fit, long-lasting, how they perform while exercising, etc.

Men: Woohoo! :confused3:


Hi Laura,

I'm afraid I don't agree with your comment here. It implies that only men derive some kind of sensuous pleasure from female clothing and that women don't. That for women the clothes are somehow neutral and are only cute or practical and don't provide any other form of pleasure, whereas for men it's "woohoo".

It perpetuates a myth even amongst many crossdressers that only guys enjoy the sensuousness of women's clothing. If this were the case then women would simply confine themselves to the same old dull, scratchy garments as men.

There is a highly respected text by Efrat Tseelon called the Masque of Femininity. It is part of a Female Studies course in my local university and in it she concludes that many women experience a low level sexual charge or sense of pleasure from the clothes they wear, not just the special sexy clothes that may be worn on a special occasion. (This work entails interviews with hundreds of women on the essence of femininity and it is very accessible).

In my view there is nothing intrinsically feminine in this pleasure. It is a human sensation shared by female and male alike. We, of all people, should avoid assigning binary value to clothing. Men and women are different of course. But not THAT different. It is just generally more permissible for women to wear such clothing because women and women's sexuality have not traditionally been a threat to society.

I will perhaps open a separate thread in the Gender / Non binary section of the forum, where I think this probably fits, rather than take this one off topic, if it is something that members might wish to explore further.

[ellbee]

Weird, but after reading all these blogs by GG's, as well as their GG-readers' comments, as well as hundreds of Amazon reviews, very few women sexualize this stuff.

Men, however (assuming non-CD hetero), almost always tend to sexualize them.


Anyway, looking forward to your thread elsewhere! :)

[Lacy PJs]

I believe that another reason why most people "assume" that crossdressers are gay is that is the image put forth in many areas. If you search on something like crossdresser sex, you hardly ever find a male/female couple with both of them dressed. It is almost 100% gay sex with one partner dressed.

No doubt this will be a controversial comment on this forum, but I also think that some grounds for that belief comes from forums and websites just like crossdressers.com. Look at some of the subject lines here and you will see that not all of us are heterosexual. While this is in no way intended to be accusatory of those individuals, it does suggest that crossdressing for some people is an expression of far more than their interest in strictly dressing in the attire of the opposite sex.

Lacy PJs

[ellbee]

I get the impression that CD'ers are somewhat more likely than the general population to be gay or (more likely) bi / bi-curious -- but the overwhelming majority are hetero. I've read anywhere from 80-90% are straight... and the amount of posts re: wives/GF's far out-number the "gay threads."


And for those who might (want to) fool around, they may be more inclined to hook up with another CD'er, as they might view that as "less gay." I could be wrong on that one, though.


Anyway, a 1 in 5 or 10 shot of a CD'er being gay/bi? Yeah, wouldn't want to put money on that by assuming that they are, because that's a losing bet.

[Eryn]

Back before I understood TG issues I assumed that MTF crossdressers were gay.

When I became a crossdresser I realized that crossdressers weren't always gay.

Now that I've transitioned, I am, by definition, lesbian.

Go figure! :)

[suzanne]

You have made the mistake of expecting to find logic in the realm of human dynamics. Not possible when there is so much shrillness around LGBTQ issues.

When I was a teenager in the seventies, the three letter F word was bestowed on anyone who displayed behavior or appearance outside the bounds defined by the unwritten rules of masculinity. To this day, the bigots still apply this rule, although the word itself is rarely spoken out loud.

There has been a lot of public education since the seventies, mostly around gays and lesbians, thanks to their coming out en masse beginning decades ago. At some point the majority realized they knew someone personally who was gay or lesbian so they slowly refrained from viewing them as some kind of alien threat. Nowadays, there is the increased visibility of Trans men and women, and with it the assumption that those who crossdressers are merely in transition or contemplating it.

Crossdressers haven't yet reached anything like a coming out tipping point, and may not for some time. Firstly, there appears to be fewer of us. But another reality is that the goal of many crossdressers is Passing, or blending in with the female population and becoming invisible. I don't blame anyone for that; it can still be a hostile world out there, but at the rate we are going, general visibility may never happen. So you can expect most of the muggles to have some confusion about our true nature and which category we need to be crammed into.

[EffyJaspers]

One of my favorite bands, placebo, has a bisexual androgynous male singer and a bassist gay male. The bassist likes specifically Latino men, and the singer likes women with small tits + boyish and men that are very feminine. What does this have to do with your take on the stigmatization of CDs are gay? ---> Everyone has preferences that do not neatly fall in line with straight or gay black and white scenarios.
My friend accidentally found out and his response when I asked him to keep it a secret --> everyone is different, doesn't bother me. ... sadly i was ashamed of it and never really hung out with him much, though i should.
Preferences shape the our world view, so everyone views you different. Read the stories posted throughout here, you'll see.

[MelanieAnne]

Why do most people think because someone crossdresses they are automatically gay?

This is the reason so many, including myself, remain in the closet with the CDing. While the assumption that we are gay is completely wrong, you are absolutely correct that MOST people think that way! And therein lies the problem. And I don't see it changing during my lifetime, because MOST people have no interest in looking into it and enlightening themselves.

[ciel64]

Personally I think there are a lot of reasons why people might assume a crossdresser is gay, but these are the two that pop into my head.

The first one is the sexualisation of femininity, a good example of this is if you see a man wearing boxers or regular underwear in catalogue or moving, it's a lot less focused on and sensationalised than when there is a woman in lingerie with frills or lace, this also plays into how the female body is generally more sexualised. For instance anybody with breasts in western cultures is expected to cover their nipples, and in general at the bare minimum wear more clothing than your average male bodies individual, so of course since articles of clothing that most women wear are feminine and women are sexualised you end up with the things being associated with them being sexualised.

And the second point, which kind of ties in with my first point is that people, assuming that the crossdresser is crossdressing for sexual reasons, and that the person is crosdressing femininely, that they were doing so to attract someone who is sexually attracted to something feminine (a straight man), of course i'm generalising but I imagine that's the general rationale that most people have behind such a belief.

"they want to become women so they can have sex with men" because they only point of being a woman is to have sex with man. <sarcasm>

and of course visa vesa.

personally though I think whether an individual who is a lesbian whould be more likely attracted to a feminine/androgynous/crossdressing man would depend on how they define there sexuality.

[MelanieAnne]

The point is that most people have no incentive to look into what we do and learn something about it. Which is why we are always going to be perceived as gay by a substantial number of people. Crossdressing is not a subject for discussion in schools or colleges. So no one, except maybe people with a CD family member are going to come in contact with a CDer, or have any incentive to look into it. That is why I feel it will never be widely accepted in my lifetime.

[Tiffany Jane]

I only know one gay man who dresses feminine publicly. He is married into my family. I mistakenly assumed the same, that if he did and I did, then people would think the same of me. It took me a lot of soul searching to realize one person's expression does not equal my own.

[Periwinkle]

I'm gay, but my crossdressing has nothing to do with it. And vice versa. I was crossdressing before I even knew what it meant to fall in love or be attracted to someone.