Are there Cross-Dressing women

[Judy-Somthing]

So I've been Cross-Dressing off and on for 50 years and I've known other guys who have Cross-Dressed but I don't know of any women who Cross-dress!

I don't mean women who feel they're men but women who like to dress as men now and then.

[Rachael Leigh]

I would say their rare but if a women puts on a mans shirt for fashion, is that Crossdressing ah yes the big debate

[franlee]

It's all according to what standard you draw the line at. I see it as every woman I know CD's to some extent and it is just a non-issue. And if the same level is used to judge a man it would go over the line. But who cares?

[Alice Torn]

Gorgeous avatar Judy! Yes, I worked with one, who would not wear womens clothes. later rented a room from her, and she still would not own womens clothes. i offered to buy her a dress once, but she was offended. I think she knew i cross dressed.

[ellbee]

Oh, you've got some GG's who might wear a piece or two, like their BF's jeans or flannel shirt, on occasion.


And then you've got the GG equivalent of a drag queen... :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL6hLnn0FAI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL6hLnn0FAI

[redtea]

There aren't any CDing women. Just Women who dress in "mens" clothes.

Mens clothing isn't "Mens clothing"

It's "Unisex" clothing and womens clothing

Men lack a "lace" for it to stand out as mens only.



Because of this I enjoy CDing and breaking the unfairness that is mens clothes :D

[Christina Page]

Prior to WW1, women didn't wear pants. Only men wore pants. But gender roles changed and fashions with it. These days women can dress like men, especially causal attire, without anyone batting an eye.

We live in a patriarchal society. Women that dress and/or act like men are seen as lifting themselves up. But men that dress or act feminine are considered to be demeaning themselves.

[Lorileah]

Oh for the love of Pete. People the majority of women who wear men's clothing aren't cross dressers. That's style. There are women who dress in men's clothing who have no intention of doing drag. They look and act as men. Some will "pack" even. Some will draw on facial hair. I am sure there are some who will wear fake beards and...OMG :eek: wigs! Yet they are women and they will let you KNOW that from the get go. It amazes me that so many here think cross dressing is just a guy thing...it's more blatant because so many try and make it a sexual thing. Why don't you notice more of them? They don't wear things that are sexualized. I dated two women who wore boxers. Yes that would be like you all wearing panties. However they didn't go around saying "Man I feel like a MAN"

So rule for this thread. The next post that says women cross dress all the time and get away with it will be the last post here. This is a no whining zone

[Leslie Langford]

Fair enough, Lorileah, and I also "get" the mantra that ReineD keeps preaching all the time here to the effect that the alleged men's clothing that women wear isn't really men's clothing because it is specifically cut and tailored to fit their bodies. So yes, they technically aren't crossdressers in the truest sense of the word because they've made those styles their own. Or so the rationale goes...

That still doesn't explain their apparent fascination with men's clothing in the broader sense. You know, the obsession with "menswear" as the fashion industry calls it, the concept of "borrowed from the boys" that is often referenced in describing a new clothing line that draws heavily from typical men's fashions, "boy shorts", "boy cut jeans", or even "the boyfriend jacket" etc., etc.

Aside from David Beckham occasionally wearing a sarong or Jaden Smith modeling quasi-women's wear, I am not aware of any men's fashions that ever successfully drew inspiration from traditional women's clothing. And those few that tried..."manti-hose, the "murse" - or even Kramer's (of Seinfeld fame) comical/satirical attempt to launch a "man-ssiere" or "bro" for those unfortunate males afflicted with moobs...all those attempts fell with a dull thud, never to be heard from again. Same for men's cosmetics. What non-crossdressing male wears foundation, "guy-liner" or paints their nails unless they are named Steven Tyler, Prince, or sing in a boy band...?

So yes, borrowing fashion ideas from the opposite gender and making it one's own is alive and well. Trouble is, it's largely a one-way street, and certainly as far as mainstream acceptance is concerned.

[Teresa]

Judy,
If you exclude F/M TSs it's difficult to answer, some women just can't do girly. My daughter had this conversation with me after I showed her some pictures of me , I don't fully understand it it because she has a good figure.
Lesbians may dress butch, is it sexual ? On the whole women wear men's clothes or similar because they know it's more practical, OK they may secretly enjoy it for some reason, a man's shirt can be made to look very sexy, a member who has now left from Australia proved that point with some very nice pictures.

There's no reason why a woman shouldn't have the same trait as us and does crossdress , but we may put the same label on her as we get, she must be gay !

Clothes designers do trade on the boy look very often and it often sells out, is it because they are frustrated CDers ? They must know there's a certain appeal in their clothes, but then they are often designed by men.

[Micki_Finn]

I can say yes. I have a friend. She usually dresses in pretty "masculine" attire, but at other times she specifically dresses to present as a man.

[Sarah Louise]

There's a woman in my office building that wears men's clothing. And no, I'm not talking about trousers and shirts that are cut differently to fit the female shape. What she wears is clearly bought in the menswear section. She also has a cropped male haircut and doesn't wear make-up.

She has a lovely smile and I'm sure she would look very pretty in a dress, but hey-ho, I don't suppose she cares about that one bit.

[ReineD]

There are women who dress in men's clothing who have no intention of doing drag. They look and act as men. Some will "pack" even. Some will draw on facial hair. I am sure there are some who will wear fake beards and...OMG :eek: wigs! Yet they are women and they will let you KNOW that from the get go.

The birth-females I've known who do this are either FtM TS (identifying as men), or some variation of non-binary such as agender or genderqueer and/or they're in a lesbian community with a feminist bent and they object strongly to society's sexualization of the female. And so some of them do make a point to buy specific men's clothes rather than just jeans and plain tops in the women's departments that every other woman wears. There was a TG group on campus for some years, now defunct for lack of funding unfortunately, but the majority of members were birth-females (a few were TS) who thought a great deal more about their gender identity and how they fit into it than the average GG. Still, out of a campus of 20,000 students, there were only about 20 members.

But, I do agree with you - we don't have the millions of websites catering to FtM "crossdressing" like there are for MtFs for the reasons you say ... it's more sexual or taboo for men with all the cute things to match. Whereas if women who are not LBTQ shy away from the more traditional female fashion trappings, it's for political, feminist reasons and not, as you say, either for kicks or because they feel they have partial male identities.


Or so the rationale goes...

That still doesn't explain their apparent fascination with men's clothing in the broader sense. You know, the obsession with "menswear" as the fashion industry calls it, the concept of "borrowed from the boys" that is often referenced in describing a new clothing line that draws heavily from typical men's fashions, "boy shorts", "boy cut jeans", or even "the boyfriend jacket" etc., etc.

Lol Leslie, we're had this conversation so many times. It may be difficult to understand, but the boy-shorts (that actually make a woman's bottom look perky), boy-cut-jeans (I mostly see boot-cut-jeans), boyfriend-jacket, etc, are just marketing buzz words that harken back to the days when it was a badge of honor for a high school girl to wear "her" boyfriend's letterman jacket. It was a romantic thing that indicated she was "his". In reality, all these items of clothing have lines that women find are appealing on themselves. They know they are buying women's clothes and frankly, they buy these clothes because they like the color, cut, fabric, comfort, or whatever, whether they are called boy-anything or not.

What GG actually looks at what's printed on the label when she shops for casual clothes in the women's department, to make sure the item is "boy-something". I sure don't. I don't care if it's called a boyfriend sweater or not. If it looks good on me and I like the color and fabric, I'll buy it. And, there are lots of jackets, sweaters, jeans, etc that look the same as the "boy-things" labels, and they're not labelled "boy-something" at all. They're regular women's clothes, just like the "boy-things". :)

[ellbee]

Why don't you notice more of them? They don't wear things that are sexualized.

But comparatively speaking, isn't women's clothing designed to be way more sexualized than men's is? :strugglin

[ReineD]

Only if she wants to buy into this. :)

There are plenty of other options if she doesn't.

[ellbee]

Oh, I understand that.

It's just that it seems there's way more of it on the women's side of things, than the men's.


And I agree with Lorileah, that apparently many CD's do either consciously or subconsciously make it into a sexual thing when choosing their wardrobe. I'm actually trying to stay away from that as much as I reasonably can these days, but it can be difficult to resist sometimes, at least to a certain degree.

[Kate Simmons]

Women don't usually have time for that nonsense unless they are performing. :battingeyelashes::)

[Jeri Ann]

Ellen DeGeneres?

[josrphine]

Hi Judy , I go to the local casino Hard rock almost every Sat from 9 to about 5. Well last Sat. I sat next to this very nice older women. She had a dungere shirt and pants, also all of her jewelry, no make up so her age 76 did show. We talked and when she found out from me that I was 75 she was amazed. She told me I looked better as a women, to my self I said an you. We played and had a nice time. She gave me her phone number an said to call her. I find that women love to sit next to me at the casino and talk, it s fun . Jo

[ReineD]

It's just that it seems there's way more of it on the women's side of things, than the men's.

Well, it's because of the age-old, "the birds and the bees".

Men are wired to sow their proverbial seed, they're visual, they're attracted to sexy ladies, and women know it. Throughout history you'll see evidence of women's fashions that place some (or all) of their physical assets on display. ;) And so the women who want to attract men know just how to do it ... they'll buy all the sexy things you mention.

Guys don't have to dress sexy by baring their shoulders, legs, or choosing outfits that emphasize their bottoms, abs, or pecs. Although some women do appreciate looking at buff guys at the beach or gym, what primarily attracts us are different things, like self-confidence, capability, power, a sense of humor, intellligence, etc. And so there isn't a huge demand for men's day-wear or evening-wear that sexualize him by clinging to or bearing his legs, chest, shoulders, waist, butt, etc. (outside of the gay community). Women generally aren't wired to sexualize men like men sexualize women, or gay men sexualize gay men. Does this make sense?

[Lana Mae]

My daughter except at work wears men's pants and unisex but in men's sizing tee shirts. She identifies as a female but is asexual. She does not like the way women's clothes are cut and refuses to wear them. She has only been in a dress 4 times all special/formal occasions. Lana Mae

[deebra]

So ReineD, reading your last paragraph in thread #20 if a man wants to dress sexy as we know some women can and do and they have all these sexy clothes to enhance in a sexual way their body parts and they do attract men when dressed as such, if a man wants to dress sexy what is he suppose to wear, if sexy women's clothes attract him wouldn't he be drawn to wear these? Self confidence, capable, etc. just doesn't do anything in a males mind when it comes to being and presenting sexy but girl clothes do (not all men, just CD's). You have presented a scenario that seems one sided and unfair to men, women can dress sexy with ALL the sexy clothes they can pick from but none are available for men. Is this the reason men become crossdressers? Men's bikini under ware offer little compared to women's abundant choices. Explaining further, a man dressed in nice slacks, shirt, haircut, clean and neat does not compare with the sexyness that cleavage, tight short dresses, heels with nylons, lingerie do. Does this validate why some men would want equal treatment to women by wearing some of their sexy clothes to feel and look sexy when there aren't equal choices for men?????? Your reply please.

[Meghan4now]

Well there was this one episode of "Sex in the City", where Charlotte did for a photoshoot, and it was a big turn on for her. So I suppose there probably ARE some that do, on occasion, maybe for halloween, Jack Sparrow (which is like a double negative anyway).


Oh Crud. Did I just relate a "Sex in the City" episode? Ok, the truth comes out. I'm really a guy pretending to be a girl, pretending to be a guy, pretending to be a girl. What could be more fluid than that? Or am I a Butterfly?

[ellbee]

Reine,

The original premise from Lorileah was that CD'ers are a lot more noticeable than GG "CD'ers" because the 1st group oftentimes wears clothing that is sexualized, (whether intentionally or not) -- while the latter group doesn't.


And my whole thing is, that it's difficult to get away from that! Reason being, there is *so* much out there that could be considered sexualized when it comes to women's clothing, that it's almost impossible to avoid. (Okay, I'm exaggerating a bit, but still. ;) )


Take a simple pair of yoga pants, for example, which is what I was wearing last night in this thread earlier. Yeah, they drape from the knee, down... But they are tight through the thighs & butt. I don't necessarily wear them to look sexy, but rather because they're comfy as all heck. These are just yoga pants, for crying out loud, LOL! Yet arguably, they're still sexualized.

And take it one step further... If you don't want VPL (visible panty line) while wearing them, what's a gal to do -- go commando? Eww. However, a thong will alleviate that. But isn't that, in itself, sexualized, as well?


How about a simple top to go along with those yoga pants? If a CD wants to help minimize her relatively broad shoulders, a scoop-neck or v-neck can visually aid with that. But now she's showing off some sexy skin!



Speaking from current experience as I rebuild my wardrobe from scratch, it can be really difficult to get away from all this, even when simply wearing some things whether to enjoy some comfort, to help a bit with passability or mild GD, or whatever.

It really is a no-win situation. :(

[Jackie7]

As I've posted elsewhere, my wife occasionally dresses as a guy, binds her breasts, stipples some beard shadow, packs. SHe doesn't do it for the complicated reasons that I have for cross dressing, but rather for fun and solidarity with me. SHe reports extremely surprising responses from other people. EVen when she is presenting as the schlumpiest sloppy guy in tee shirt and baseball cap, women defer to her and treat her as if she was a guy, even close friends who absolutely know the difference. HIghly amusing and strange.

[CynthiaD]

I have a female friend who habitually wears masculine-looking clothing. On Halloween she usually carries it one step further an wears a male suit and a fedora. Nobody thinks anything of it.

[ReineD]

You have presented a scenario that seems one sided and unfair to men, women can dress sexy with ALL the sexy clothes they can pick from but none are available for men. Is this the reason men become crossdressers?

No, although I understand why YOU became a crossdresser. You're attracted to looking pretty (yourself), so of course you'll think it isn't fair. But, it's perfectly fair to the guys who are not interested in presenting as women, which is the majority of men out there. And since they know what women are really interested in, they're more than happy to focus on appearing self-confident, capable, smart, etc.

That's simply the way it is and has always been Deebra, you can't change the rules of attraction that have existed since the dawn of man, just because you prefer different rules ... a man will look twice at a woman if she shows legs, or some cleavage, or has a stellar butt that is emphasized by what she has chosen to wear. In comparison, he won't look twice if she is wearing loose, baggy clothing. Women, on the other hand, will look twice at a guy who is dressed confidently, has a pleasing, self-assured look, perhaps an easy smile, looks smart, looks successful (according to her particular definition of success, which is different for everyone). They won't look twice at a man who looks like a slob. Women are attracted to different things than men are, the men know it and dress accordingly. And men are attracted to different things than women are, women know this, and they dress accordingly. Like I said, it's about the birds and the bees for people who are in the market for partners.


... until middle aged and older when lots of people enter the next life phase, and dressing to attract becomes less important, especially for someone in an established relationship. Right? How many grandmas do you know who dress like sexy 25 year olds. lol



The original premise from Lorileah was that CD'ers are a lot more noticeable than GG "CD'ers" because the 1st group oftentimes wears clothing that is sexualized, (whether intentionally or not) -- while the latter group doesn't.

But there is no "latter" group. (Other than the minority of LTQ women), GGs who dress casually in flannel shirts and jeans are not crossdressers. People notice crossdressers because they are not accustomed to seeing men who attempt to look like women. The women who wear flannel shirts and jeans are not attempting to look like men.



And my whole thing is, that it's difficult to get away from that! Reason being, there is *so* much out there that could be considered sexualized when it comes to women's clothing, that it's almost impossible to avoid. (Okay, I'm exaggerating a bit, but still. ;) )

Take a simple pair of yoga pants, for example, which is what I was wearing last night in this thread earlier. Yeah, they drape from the knee, down... But they are tight through the thighs & butt. I don't necessarily wear them to look sexy, but rather because they're comfy as all heck. These are just yoga pants, for crying out loud, LOL! Yet arguably, they're still sexualized.

Here's where we differ. First, I have no trouble finding clothes to wear that don't sexualize my body. Second, in my day-to-day wear, if my pants are thin and reveal my butt to the point where panty lines show, I wear a longer tunic top. Or if they are tight pants and my top doesn't cover my butt, I make sure they are made of much thicker material like denim. Go to any mall on a Saturday and look at the average woman over the age of 25 (don't look at the young ones who of course are more apt to want guys to stare at them, with the word "pink" emblazoned on their butts for example :)). And tell me how many women you see who dress to show off their butts, on purpose, in a way that they know you would find sexy.

And yes, of course there are fit women running at the park wearing tight fitting sports bottoms or yoga pants, and tops that expose their midriffs for cooling. And yes, since they're running, guys will appreciate seing all their body parts bounce. But these women are keeping in shape for themselves, they're not out there to see how many men they can entice by wearing sports clothes while they're running, and quite of few of them would feel put off if they caught a guy leering at them.

[Lorileah]

Pretty sure I said that anyone whining about "women can but we can't" would end this thread.

thus...