When will the "box" no longer be needed?

[TracyDeluxe]

Reading the posts here, a good percentage of them concern, for one reason or another, "hiding". When will the need for that end, will it ever end?

I think I posted in another, unrelated, post that it would never end, that we will never be fully accepted, that the human brain is hardwired to not accept us. Now I wonder if I was wrong, but I also wonder how that, acceptance, could come about?

I think I know how it won't be done, and that is by "hiding". I know all the reasons for hiding, and they are very good reasons, indeed. But didn't gays have good reasons for hiding? Didn't blacks have good reasons for not rocking the boat prior to the civil rights movement?

Point is, if we, as individuals, keep hiding, we will never eliminate the need for hiding. I am not pointing fingers here, I am certainly not one of the braver ones.

But it's going to take soldiers in the trenches to free us, IMHO.

Rambling in the night, sorry.

[stephanie2005]

i agree fully with u tracy and i too wonder when we will no longer hide i do go out quit often enfemme and no one around here really pass atention to me but i hope we can get enough brave souls to the point we can do something like the gays did i mean if we had enough ppl willing we could march on washington like the blacks did and if we do start a movement it will be hard for a bit liek it was during the civil rights movment but in time i think if something of this nature did take place we would be as accepted as the gay and there would no longer be a need for hideing. i am what soem call a brave one cause i dont think twice about going out dressed but iw as told by friends that knwo my fam i look just like one of my sisters except diffrent color hair but we do need soem soilders to get in there and fight for us and if a movement ever gets started i will be at the front of the pack tryign to help all my sisterhere and around the world......



stephanie2005

[Adnama]

Good question.
But is anything that is considered to be not 'normal' actually ever fully accepted? I don't think so.
So even if we went out in force and tried to make general society accept us, how far would we actually get?
Would be nice though....but somehow I don't think it'll come about in my lifetime. So for now I'll continue to hide and sneak out occasionally........
:chained:

Amanda

[Yes I am]

Am I the only one that thinks that people might be just as, if not more put-off by the sneakiness and deception of those of us who dress than they are by the mere sight of a dude in a dress?

[GypsyKaren]

Well, I for one am through with the "hiding" game for various reasons and such. Basically, I guess I feel that there's nothing wrong with being myself, it's certainly nothing to be ashamed of. I really don't care if others have a problem with anything about me, I don't need anyone's stamp of approval to live my life as I see fit, especially since it really has no effect on anyone else. So I'm in a skirt, so bloody what? You know, whenever I go out, I see so many people that are so obese they can hardly walk, but I don't care, if that's how they want to present themselves, then let them. I guess I kinda want the same in return.

Another reason I refuse to hide anymore is because I paid my dues, now it's my time. I've always done for others instead of for me, always put everyone else first, so now it's payback time for myself. All I'm doing is things that make me feel good about myself, I don't think that's asking to much out of life. If I want to go to work in a steel mill with pink nail polish on, I'm going to, it's my turn, so there!

Before anyone gets there dander in a bunch, I do take into account the feelings of my wife Kat. I never say, do, or wear anything that would cause her to be embarrased. That's never really been a problem, as I do act like an adult when I go out...in other words, I know what I'm doing and what I'm all about, so I'm never out of control.

I do not consider myself to be a "soldier in the trenches". I've fought my share of battles for others, I'm just not interested in doing that anymore. I think it's time for the youngsters to pick up the torch, if that's what they want. I just go about living my own life, let everyone else worry about theirs.

Karen

[Yes I am]

Well, I for one am through with the "hiding" game for various reasons and such. Basically, I guess I feel that there's nothing wrong with being myself, it's certainly nothing to be ashamed of. I really don't care if others have a problem with anything about me, I don't need anyone's stamp of approval to live my life as I see fit, especially since it really has no effect on anyone else. So I'm in a skirt, so bloody what? You know, whenever I go out, I see so many people that are so obese they can hardly walk, but I don't care, if that's how they want to present themselves, then let them. I guess I kinda want the same in return.

Another reason I refuse to hide anymore is because I paid my dues, now it's my time. I've always done for others instead of for me, always put everyone else first, so now it's payback time for myself. All I'm doing is things that make me feel good about myself, I don't think that's asking to much out of life. If I want to go to work in a steel mill with pink nail polish on, I'm going to, it's my turn, so there!

Before anyone gets there dander in a bunch, I do take into account the feelings of my wife Kat. I never say, do, or wear anything that would cause her to be embarrased. That's never really been a problem, as I do act like an adult when I go out...in other words, I know what I'm doing and what I'm all about, so I'm never out of control.

I do not consider myself to be a "soldier in the trenches". I've fought my share of battles for others, I'm just not interested in doing that anymore. I think it's time for the youngsters to pick up the torch, if that's what they want. I just go about living my own life, let everyone else worry about theirs.

Karen

Right on!

[Jasmine Ellis]

Good question dear. But I 'm not going to answer this one just incase I get my toe's stood on and my fingers cut off.....:D

[ReginaK]

It's probably not going to happen for a few reasons:

1. Too many of us are happy in the box. They don't want to rock your boat and as long as you don't rock theirs, they'll happily hide in that box. "As long as I can wear my panties under my suit with no one knowing, I don't care." is a line that pretty much sums up those types of people.

2. There isn't enough self-respect among us. How many times have you overheard some derisive conversation about TG people and didn't step in to tell those people how bigoted and ignorant they were?

3. Fear. We're all afraid of something. Some are credible fears like, "Will I lose my job?" Some not credible at all like, "What if Shirley Ann in my mother's bridge club finds out?"

To put it bluntly, we shouldn't take off our balls to put on a skirt. We can't cower in corners under the "woe-is-me" banner. We have to stand up and be proud of who we are.

People only think we're not normal, not because of our clothes, but because normal people don't walk around in fear of being themselves. Normal people don't hide things from their friends, wives, etc.

I'll be the first to say i'm not the most out person as my family still doesn't know, but everyone else does. Friends and enemies alike. And thoes who know me, will gladly confirm I don't take any guff about it. Any person who calls me a faggot, says i'm confused, or a freak is going to regret in some way or the other.

And you know what? More and more people have started to accept me. And even those who don't accept me, respect me enough to keep their mouths closed around me.

:sb: Stepping down..

[Charlene Marie]

good thread Tracy. Hiding forever, in my humble opinion is a terribly way to live our lives. If we have to hide in our own homes thats something I feel must be delt with early on. that topic and been exhausted and I think we all agree it comes down to being honest with the person we love and requires lots of understanding on both sides and meaningful conversation.

[maid phylis]

dear gypsy karen i really agree with you 1.000 %.since i have been going to my cd group cdi in new york city i have been going there and back all prettied up and riding in the subway to get there.i leave at around 3,30 in the afternoon and i am always wearing something nice.when i get to my stop i have to walk around five big blocks till i get to our apt so everyone can see me and if someone looks a little longer all i do is give them a big smile .i have been going to cdi for five years now and four of them have been fully dressed/love phylisanne0.02 :balloons: :cheer: :gorgeous: :GE:

[Rachael Warren]

Well, I for one am through with the "hiding" game for various reasons and such. Basically, I guess I feel that there's nothing wrong with being myself, it's certainly nothing to be ashamed of. I really don't care if others have a problem with anything about me, I don't need anyone's stamp of approval to live my life as I see fit, especially since it really has no effect on anyone else. So I'm in a skirt, so bloody what? You know, whenever I go out, I see so many people that are so obese they can hardly walk, but I don't care, if that's how they want to present themselves, then let them. I guess I kinda want the same in return.

Another reason I refuse to hide anymore is because I paid my dues, now it's my time. I've always done for others instead of for me, always put everyone else first, so now it's payback time for myself. All I'm doing is things that make me feel good about myself, I don't think that's asking to much out of life. If I want to go to work in a steel mill with pink nail polish on, I'm going to, it's my turn, so there!

Before anyone gets there dander in a bunch, I do take into account the feelings of my wife Kat. I never say, do, or wear anything that would cause her to be embarrased. That's never really been a problem, as I do act like an adult when I go out...in other words, I know what I'm doing and what I'm all about, so I'm never out of control.

I do not consider myself to be a "soldier in the trenches". I've fought my share of battles for others, I'm just not interested in doing that anymore. I think it's time for the youngsters to pick up the torch, if that's what they want. I just go about living my own life, let everyone else worry about theirs.

Karen

Cracking post Karen!

I am only 13 years behind you but am taking up the torch! ;)

[Julie Avery]

There does come a point in life where the children are raised, and relationship questions in the empty nest once again concern just me and you. And mortality rears its head, "if not now, when, if not here, where?" That's where my first marriage ended, through my own fault. Shame on me, if I failed to learn from all the pain involved in that, to be open with others during the process of selecting a partner, at my age.

[Butterfly Bill]

No soldier is going to free you. You 'll have to do the freeing yourself. In fact, the freeing is not necessary, because you're already free, as you will discover when you just do ut.

[Maria D]

Well said Bill.

As for 'good reasons for hiding', I think fear is the main one. But it's not a good reaon, there are none. It won't take soldiers, it'll take weight of numbers to make society, and this community, realise that we ARE free. One gay person saying 'I'm here, I'm queer, get used to me' doesn't do much. Several hundred thousand people repeating that, makes a difference.
One woman on a bus, on her own, won't make a difference. A whole section of the population making a statement, makes a difference.
If you really want change, don't wait for soldiers. Imagine how much pain and suffering, for CDs and partners, could be avoided if we could be open and honest.

[JoannaDees]

Oh gawd! It's scary trying to push the boundaries. Heart pounds, head says all kinds of things ... and then that teen girl says something hurtful.

I think that it can slowly change, and all don't have to be on the front line. Some will, and that will be enough. Although, you know how society works, it fluctuates back and forth. Who knows how far things will go, how far they will swing back, but the hysterisis will eventually settle into the right thing. Right now, here in the USA, I fear so much the Moral Majority, fueled by that buffoon GWB2.

But take heart, science and knowledge will liberate all in the future. Not in our lifetime of course, but some day.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

It's the Catch-22: many of us aren't willing to come out until society is more tolerant, but society won't become more tolerant until more of us come out. And few people want to be first.

I seriously doubt the people are hardwired to not accept us. Women have radically changed their role in society -- despite commentary at the time that they were doing something (like working outside the house) that was contrary to nature. Look at the progress gays and lesbians have made in only a generation or two. And there's plenty of surveys showing that the acceptance of homosexuality rises as age decreases -- essentially young adults have grown up seeing public gays and lesbians so it's generally not a big deal to them.

With the internet enabling t-folks to realize they're not alone, I suspect we'll see more people outing themselves when they hit retirement and the worries about how being outed might affect their livelihoods go away.

And let's not forget there's intermediate steps. I'm "public but not out." Maybe one of these days I will be fully out, but in the meantime, going out in public means that people are seeing a CD. Let's be honest, most of us (including myself) aren't going to be mistaken for GGs in up-close interaction. But my experience is that people are generally willing to treat me as if I were a woman, since that's how I'm presenting myself and I'm not acting like it's a big deal. In other words, I act like I deserve respect and I usually get it.

Will crossdressing ever be perceived as "normal"? Probably not. But acceptably eccentric? Yes. It's interesting to me that we're seeing clues that this is happening. For example, the T-mobile commerical involving a crossdressing son that was discussed awhile back. (For those who haven't seen it, the father is more upset by his son's cell phone bill than his crossdressing -- and the father is so upset about the bill that he also overlooks his daughter's straight-A report card and the other son driving through the garage door.)