This TG thing in the media isn't doing us any favors.

[Nicole Erin]

I been at my same job for a few years now.
Very seldom got called "sir" and just have not had any real bad experiences. I mean if I got called "sir" twice in one week, it was just a bad week.

Though I have not been lazy about my presentation (still do hair, makeup, use female voice, and dress well) it seems lately I get "sir" about twice a day lately. Of course it is always men who do so.

I don't know if it is because there seems to be this flood of talk in the media about transgender stuff lately and people are getting tired of hearing about it or maybe people didn't think about it before but now they do and are not sure how to react to us...

Often times I just say, "it is ma'am" and they are like, "Oh I am sorry..." in a sincere enough tone.

The ones who are tired of hearing about it - Do they maybe feel the need to challenge a label, kind of for the same reason a kid in a Honda civic thinks he needs to try to race every car that is actually fast? Or maybe how a weight lifter hears from pencil necks about some other guy they know who is 10 times as strong? Or how someone might tell a martial artists, "Oh but I know this guy who can kill someone with his pinky toe!"

Like peoples' precious egos are hurt so they have to try to put someone in their place? Maybe the general public had few problems before but now that it is widespread news that we exist, some folks just want to discredit our efforts?

[Gerrijerry]

my honest feeling is stop taking notice of every word that people say. So many don't even think about who they are talking to. or how it effects them. Personally I don't care if they call me her she mam or sir etc.

[Jesse Six]

A friend of mine, a cis woman, has an illness that had caused her to lose all her hair completely. She's in her 40s. She gets people sarcastically calling her 'sir' now, and it never used to happen.

Yes, the assholes seem to be coming out of the woodwork.

[Georgette_USA]

At times I do see your opinion/thoughts. Yes there will always be bigoted people or others with different views that want to inflate their own egos by downgrading others. That is not likely to change.

40 years ago so few TS around people didn't even question ones presentation.

With all the new media presence on TG/TS people are probably looking at each other more often.

As far as not doing us any favors. It is making society look at the whole issue. There are some that have been waiting that may have the presence to seek out others.

Maybe it is time for society to see that TG/TS are not strange but just regular people.

[I Am Paula]

It really doesn't help that 22 states want us dead, or banished.

[GBJoker]

It also doesn't help that we get so many benefits and protections that most don't. It's very easy for me to see where the frustration is coming from.

[Lorileah]

:eek: What? We get benefits and protections others don't? I wish I knew what those were. Really Joker, where do you get this stuff?

[Nicole Erin]

my honest feeling is stop taking notice of every word that people say. So many don't even think about who they are talking to. or how it effects them. Personally I don't care if they call me he she mam or sir etc.

Usually I do alright with not worrying but I guess my confidence isn't perfect yet.
Life enjoys testing our patience from time to time.

[GBJoker]

Lorileah, if you're going to respond with a sarcastic or mocking tone (I don't even know which, but it's clear you didn't even spend two seconds considering what I said), then I'm not going to waste my time explaining.

I say this with all the irony on the planet: Put yourself in some one else's shoes for once.

[Melissa Rose]

Ummm, what are those benefits and protections? I sure in heck have not been aware of or received any unless I am completely blind to them or missed out on them. I am not being sarcastic or mocking. I truly have not experienced or know of any so an explanation would be appreciated.

[Periwinkle]

Melissa, it really depends on what state you live in. If you live in the United States, that is. Like in Washington state, anybody who is TS is protected by the law and they can use whichever bathroom they feel matches their gender identity without much confrontation. Except from the occasional jerk. It's also pretty easy to find doctors in this state. Even the more conservative half of the state isn't too bad. There's also college scholarships specifically for those who are TS.

[Nikki.]

Except Joker wrote we get so many benefits and protections that most don't. No one is denied the use of a bathroom. Unless you're TG and want to use the one that matches your gender indentity(in some states). Outside of income limitations, everyone can find a doctor. There's no special privelege conferred to trans peeps in those areas. Anti-discrimination laws are not a privelege; they aid in(but are not a panacea) reducing unequal treatment.

[arbon]

It also doesn't help that we get so many benefits and protections that most don't. It's very easy for me to see where the frustration is coming from.


What in the world are you talking about?

[Lorileah]

Lorileah, if you're going to respond with a sarcastic or mocking tone (I don't even know which, but it's clear you didn't even spend two seconds considering what I said), then I'm not going to waste my time explaining.

I say this with all the irony on the planet: Put yourself in some one else's shoes for once. No honestly. Explain (if it isn't worth your time, then it wasn't worth throwing out to start with). Was your first post sarcastic? What benefits and protections do we get. Really, I want to know. What EXACTLY do Transpeople get that isn't already given to ...I dunno, white males? OH yeah, I considered everything you said. Maybe you are talking how some people get frustrated when they think they are losing rights? But they don't lose them. They KEEP theirs and others get the same. So I am eagerly awaiting your response. Go ahead.
Melissa, it really depends on what state you live in. If you live in the United States, that is. Like in Washington state, anybody who is TS is protected by the law and they can use whichever bathroom they feel matches their gender identity without much confrontation. That's a protection? Seems like that is really EQUAL rights, no?
It's also pretty easy to find doctors in this state. Even the more conservative half of the state isn't too bad. There's also college scholarships specifically for those who are TS. Wait, still don't see a benefit. So, it's a benefit to be able to get scholarships? It's a benefit to find a doctor who will do the job they get paid to do? Even if we talk minorities, that is an equal thing. Still not seeing how TGs get benefits. Is your point that some states have better TG benefits and protections? That is true. And that is because not enough TGs actually stand up. You know what would be a benefit? If we were treated JUST LIKE EVERYONE else.

I still call BS on Joker's first post

[Julogden]

Possibly has something to do with an increasing tendency toward intolerance of LGBT people that many Americans are espousing nowadays.

[Tommie.]

Nicole... to repeat some of the wisdom i have read here explains at least to me that people must define all things to have comfort in their daily surroundings.... if their definitions of others does not accept trans or other minorities, then they have a response, which can have a full range from good to bad... curious friendliness to outright calling someone a 'deviate' (as has happened to me on more than one occasion at Walmart). Their lack of knowledge seems to be related to their culture and the response to each person's nature. Media raising the awareness has caused people to look for the new 'phenom' and begin to grapple with the definition.... hence when they see someone they suspect as trans they respond with calling 'sir' to help themselves cope.

I have gotten lots of 'sirs' lately too which have an elevated level of emphasis which strikes me in some terms as passive aggressive behavior but that interpretation can be my fear of being made, singled out or identified.... although i can't really complain as i can't pass.... but the frequent 'sirs' do sting me a little too. I would like to take the best high road that Gerri suggested but the SIRS get old lol.... huggs.... tommie

[Debglam]

Ok ladies & gents. The black helicopters are watching me so I can only tell you this once:

Here is how you get your special trans benefits and protections. . .

Next time you are at your ATM, cancel the transaction but then quickly type in "8675309." The screen will show "Do you want to end this TRANSaction?" Just like that. When you see that, you know you are in. If you then type in your Social Security Number, the screen will show "Thank You, TRANSaction complete." Done.

Within 5 business days, an unmarked panel van will pull up to your residence and deliver an envelope containing:
1. Certificates for free GRS and FFS at the hospital of your choice;
2. A complete set of official identification with the appropriate gender marker;
3. A "Get Out of Jail Free" card;
4. Guaranteed employment for life;
5. A copy of The Beatles album, that when played backwards explains why you are trans;
6. A black AMEX card with all billing to go to the state of North Carolina treasury;
7. I'm not sure what else. The trans illuminati time traveller had to beam back to Ork before zie could tell me the rest.

This post will self-destruct in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. . .

[arbon]

Right special benefits and privilege!

[PretzelGirl]

Joker, it amazes me how you behave in this forum. You come in here and constantly complain that no one understands you and then you throw tripe like this out. Do you know why laws are passed on behalf of the marginalized? So that they can get a little closer to being equal. Note that I didn't say equal. What next? Do you want insurance companies not to pay for cancer treatment because you don't have cancer? Coverage is for everyone.

Bathrooms are for everyone. Same thing.

Restaurants or any other business cannot discriminate. It is simple. You don't like it? Don't open up a restaurant!

Have you really found a scholarship for being trans or are you just stacking the bullshit up?

And finally, if cis men have problems getting care after being rape, then we need to fix that. I don't understand how we always compare things and then say someone shouldn't have something because we created an emotional comparison. All people should be listened to and treated and helped if they say they have been raped. Period. If there is a shortfall, you don't take it away from the others, you fix the problem.

You are either not trans or you have some serious internalized transphobia going on there.

[KymberlyOct]

Thank you Sue.

And Joker - from reading many of your comments on this forum I can't understand why you continue to bless us with your insights. You have stated many times in many ways that you are not accepting of yourself and discussed purging and no longer visiting this site. Please learn to love and accept yourself and then maybe you can do the same for others. But I do thank you for reminding me that I should strive to do those same things to a greater degree myself.

Sorry to everyone else for making it personal and I will not do so again on this thread. Joker if you want to discuss PM me but I promise I will be much more harsh.

[Zooey]

GBJoker... I'm practically a TERF by most of the "trans community's" standard, and having spent a lot of time talking with them, I can tell you that even the TERFs don't support many of the arguments you are trying to make.

I would love to talk about who DOES support your arguments, and why I think you're completely full of it, but those topics are generally not permitted here.

[GBJoker]

I have been rattled and surprised, to say the least...

First off, insults won't convince me of anything.

KimberlyOct: Because various other LGBT clubs and transgender forums have asked me to leave for having a different opinion than every one else, leaving this website as the sole remaining place where I can talk about transgender issues. I don't recall where I've stated I don't accept myself though. I accepted myself 8 years ago, when I came out of the closet. I'm not going to PM, because PM's don't seem to be working for me.

Zooey: I'm not sure what a "TERF" is, so I'm not sure how to respond.

Nicole Erin's OP seemed to me to be asking for theories on the backlash towards transgendered peoples in today's society. I postulated a theory. That's it.

[Zooey]

TERF: Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists

See also: Google

[Sara Jessica]

Good gosh Joker, what a horrific load of horse #*@^.

All those words and so-called examples mean nothing. I cannot think of a single instance where a trans person is granted a single advantage over anyone else in society. No one is asking for anything special or over-and-above. Like any oppressed group, living to play on an equal field is sure a nice place to start.

Yours is low hanging fruit when it comes to refuting a premise. In the immortal words of fIREHOSE, Another Theory Shot To Shit.

[Lauren B]

Because various other LGBT clubs and transgender forums have asked me to leave for having a different opinion than every one else, leaving this website as the sole remaining place where I can talk about transgender issues.

Not that you aren't entitled to your opinions, but if enough people pile on you for them, maybe it's time to question them? Personally, I find them borderline offensive. This stuff you're saying is like saying 50 years ago that black people not having to sit at the back of the bus meant they enjoyed special privileges. Society is only beginning to treat us like human beings; that doesn't equate to getting special privileges in any universe. You don't get to say the kind of stuff you're saying and not expect lots of backlash.

[Megan G]

By your own admissions if I remember correctly you came out Joker and then did not like the backlash so you ran back to the closet.

If you ever decide to come out and live your life authenticly in public full time then and only then do you have the right to believe that we receive benifits and protections above and beyond what cis people get. Get some RLE and then come back and rethink it..

[Krisi]

........... What EXACTLY do Transpeople get that isn't already given to ...I dunno, white males? .........

In many states, protections are written into law for "minorities" and these often include transsexuals. If I (as a white male) kill you, it's classified as a "hate crime" and I can get extra penalties. If you kill me, it's just simple murder, nothing special. A white male can get into trouble if he refuses to hire a transsexual or rent a room to one but a transsexual can refuse to hire a white male or rent him a room because he is not a transsexual and that's OK as far as the law is concerned.

White males are fast becoming the "minorities" as far as the law is concerned.

What really needs to happen of course is for everyone to forget about race, gender, sexual orientation, "transness", etc. and just treat each other like people. Just people.

With the government keeping track of people by category and setting quotas, this is not likely to happen anytime soon.

[arbon]

Poor poor poor white dudes are just so oppressed...

It is horrible!

I've been on both side of the fence as that white guy that did not have to worry about discrimination and all that fun stuff.

and as a trans woman been very educated what discrimination and harrasment are really like first hand.

Dont give me that white guys are getting a bad deal crap.

[Lorileah]

Hmm, Krisi. So white males are suddenly getting treated like they treated everyone else. White males make up 31% of the population so technically, if every other demographic joined into ONE, yeah they'd be the minority

Now shall we discuss "hate crime"? It is a defined a "hate crime as a “criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender's bias against a race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, ethnicity, gender, or gender identity." It does, in fact cover EVERY race, religion... But let's go beyond that, don't you think that some who murders someone over race, religion... deserves extra punishment? For the murder victim, the are just as dead, so it doesn't help them. But it would keep someone who is hateful off the streets longer. I don't see it as a benefit. A benefit would be a force field that prevented being injured or murdered to start with.

IF we didn't have discrimination and hate, we wouldn't need hate crimes

[Rianna Humble]

In many states, protections are written into law for "minorities" and these often include transsexuals. If I (as a white male) kill you, it's classified as a "hate crime" and I can get extra penalties.

I think you misstated your case here, possibly typing too fast to notice that half your sentence was missing:

If you kill a TS person, and the authorities bother to investigate your transphobia and having bothered to investigate that can be bothered to charge you with the additional crime, and if the jury does not buy your Trans-panic defence, then you might be convicted of a hate crime and if it gets that far, then you might get a further sentence to run concurrently with the main sentence.


If you kill me, it's just simple murder, nothing special.

A typical misrepresentation of equalities legislation by someone who wishes to pretend that they need to be more equal than others.
If someone kills you because you are white cis male, then that is covered by the same hate crime legislation as if you murder someone for not being white or for not being cis.


A white male can get into trouble if he refuses to hire a transsexual or rent a room to one but a transsexual can refuse to hire a white male or rent him a room because he is not a transsexual and that's OK as far as the law is concerned.
Again a typical misrepresentation as quoted by haters the world over. If I refuse to hire you because you are not transsexual, then that comes under the same discrimination as when you refuse to hire someone because they are not white cis male.


White males are fast becoming the "minorities" as far as the law is concerned.
By repeating the same clap trap that all the hate organisations offer to justify treating people who are different from them less well than they would treat someone who is not different, you give the appearance that you actually believe this rubbish or worse that you could be one of those haters.


What really needs to happen of course is for everyone to forget about race, gender, sexual orientation, "transness", etc. and just treat each other like people. Just people.
If everyone were to do as you suggest, then there would be no need for legislation making it a crime to treat someone less well on the basis of those characteristics.

[Nicole Erin]

Damn I do not know how but it happened, see photo...

So let me sneak this in before the inevitable happens...

So here in my town, there is some 18 year old kid who shot and killed a 50 something year old female art teacher.
This teacher was not TG, just an everyday GG, sitting on her porch.

Why did he do it? Mistaken identity. The kid apparently thought it was some guy, yes, some guy who had ripped him off (probably materials for bible study, yeah right.)

I am thinking, "Who on god's green earth is gonna mistake a 50 year old feminine looking woman for some guy?" This woman could not be mistaken for a man no matter what.
It was not a hate crime, just some punk ass thug trying to get even for theft.

So here a GG gets mistaken for some guy. That is not how they worded it but that is supposedly how it happened. When I heard I thought, "Just how dumb is the general public?" Suddenly i didn't feel as bad over a few idiots calling me sir.

As far as "special rights" - I think every sector of society has certain privileges AND disadvantages specific to their own group.
Yet, every group thinks they are being discriminated against. ANY given person has no shortage of reasons as to why their life is supposedly more difficult than the rest of us. The fact is - the real world does not discriminate. It wants to shit on ALL of our parades regardless of age, gender, color, nationality, body weight, height, hair color...

[Suzanne F]

Krisi
I am so sorry that you have to endure these hardships of being a white male every day. Especially one that hides in his house wearing women's clothes all the while knowing your good ole white male friends would despise you if they really knew who and what you are. We have faced those men and told the truth. We aren't fighting for our rights as much as we are fighting for people's rights like you. Go spout that shit off with your buddies, but remember the women in this forum know the real you. We hate that you would be despised. We hate that you have to hide. We hate your buddies false sense of superiority. You have never lost anything because you never risked anything when it comes to gender presentation. How in the world you think you can come in this section and comment like that defies logic. Maybe you should warn your white male friends that the transexuals are banding together to take their rights away. Oh, you can't even tell them that you know us can you?

[Deborah_UK]

:yt:

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[jentay1367]

Yet, every group thinks they are being discriminated against.

Ironically, they are. If everyone could mind their own damned business and quit worrying what everyone else was doing, the world would be a much better place. As John Donne so eloquently stated, "ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for the..... (and to paraphrase a bit,) no man or woman is an island". It will be lovely when we can all get along, till that day though, we trans women deserve to be protected from predatory haters that have the power (mainly white males) to make us miserable...or much, much worse, merely to support their phobias, beards or pathetic hatred. To fail to see our right to live unfettered lives is myopic at its best and miserably ignorant at its worst. For Joker to come to this forum as one of us and espouse that attitude, well...that's social suicide. I think an apology is owed to us all. It would show your position was poorly considered and I'm sure that most here would see that and accept that people say things sometimes that are said In haste. Been there myself an...well, there by the grace .......and all that.

[Nigella]

Done and dusted