Deep thoughts on cross dressing.

[trisha_anne]

I have been reading some of the recent threads on the forum and a few thoughts came to my mind. I don't mean to step on any toes here but do you girls ever wonder if we are looking too deep for answers. That just maybe the answers to our questions are right there on the surface. That just maybe if we would stop digging so deep for the hard to define answers that maybe we would be happier. This is just a thought.

I have always asked myself the tough questions like "why do I cross dress?", or "What made me this way?" I was just thinking that the answer may in fact be "because". A childish answer to a tough question, but just maybe the right one. "I am a cross dresser because I am," no need to dig deeper just accept my self and move on. Some of you may be already at this point, but it has just dawned on me that I am who I am and I am happy. With this issue behind me I can now move on and better myself and use my mental energy on positive things rather then on the things that just can't be simply answered.

I hope I haven't bored you to tears with my thoughts but I have come to this realization and talking about it brings closure to the issue. I have you all to thank, because with out you (CD, TG, TS, and GG's) all sharing your thoughts and experiences, I would never have been able to have this experience.

[windycissy]

I agree that a certain serenity comes with acceptance of who we are. After all, the Serenity Prayer asks for the wisdom to know the difference between the things we can and can't change. Everything I've read says that if you have the crossdressing bug, no amount of therapy, hypnosis, etc. will shake it. If you can channel your dressing into positive experiences, and not allow it to wreck your relationships or self-esteem, you will have done more than cope: you will have added a new dimension to your life that few others can understand or share. Ask Windy (http://snurl.com/askwindy)

[CharleneCD]

Trisha I couldnt agree with you more. No one truely knows why we are the way we are. I leave the asking of that question to the psyches who need studies for their papers. For me I just simply look to the other people on this forum and know that I am not alone in my desires.

[AprilMae]

A good thought. I gave up figuring out why I do it. It feels good and I enjoy it. That's enough reason for me. To those who say it's strange, I say (Paraphrasing George Carlin), hitiing a little white ball, chasing after it, finding it, and hitting it away again...THAT'S strange.

[Cathy Anderson]

wonder if we are looking too deep for answers. That just maybe the answers to our questions are right there on the surface. That just maybe if we would stop digging so deep for the hard to define answers that maybe we would be happier. This is just a thought. You make it sound like an either-or situation.
Can't a person look for deep answers sometimes, and other times just relax and go with the flow?

> rather then on the things that just can't be simply answered

That's a second issue. So there are two you've presented:
1. would we be happier if we stopped looking for answers
2. there are no answers

Why would one suppose there are no answers? If science finds a "TG gene", is that an answer, or part of one? If one studies transgenderism in other cultures or other even other species, does that contribute to our self-understanding? If not, who do we study other cultures and species concerning other behaviors? Is TGism the only area where we should not try to scientifically and philosophically understand ourselves?

Who's to say that the effort to "know thyself" is not some unique quality of human beings? After all, our species is termed "homo sapiens."

Cathy

[Cathy J]

I'm very much a senior citizen and have , of course, been a crossdresser most of my life. When I was a wee tad I was quite concerned I was a "queer" or worse and hadn't a clue of why I had these feelings. I didn't dare tell anyone about me either. So I went ahead and followed my heart.

I Married and helped rear a family and all the while kept my secret. I am now to the point where I've found (thanks to this forum and other sources) more or less what I'm all about. I can't stop. I don't want to stop. I enjoy it more everyday with less and less sexual emphasis.

My SO is still in the dark. She would come unglued if she knew that I had these tendencies as she considers me her male role model.

Stll, I dress almost every day, even if for a short while. I always get dressed totally fem and tuck for the best possible look and feel. It's wonderful. In fact I'm totally en-femme right now. WOW!!

Bottom line.....relax, enjoy and don't sweat why.

Lotsa Love,

[jill_4]

The sentiments expressed by Trisha anne are right but it is how we come to those sentiments,some of us agonise for years putting it away in the closet and pretending,'I don't do that',but it is like denying your birth or death,when you come to the realisation that it is part of you and learn to live your life to the full.you find that true contentment.I'm there at long last.
;) ;) Best Wishes Jill ;) ;)

[Anita Mae GG]

I think you are who you are because you were destined to be that way. I don't see it any different then many things in life such as:

why is Venus Williams a natural talent at tennis and I am not?
why is my husband a man and I am a woman?
why do i enjoy working in the yard and building things and the neighbor hates it?

It is all relative here. We were all born with our own unique personailites. They make us who we are. So to say I am a crossdresser, transgender, transsexual just BECAUSE I am...is dead on correct. We each have our own traits for a reason...because we were born that way.

If we weren't all different in our own special way this world would be boring. I don't see someone being a crossdresser,gay, lesbian, straight any different than I see somone who is a carpenter, pilot, bus driver....etc.....we ALL have uniqueness some is more excepted by society than others but we all have the special something that we enjoy and are good at and makes us feel good.......

[Alexandria]

Ever since I was really young, I had a taste for women's fashion. In fact, it wasn't until last year when I was introduced to the world of crossdressing by my GG friends. Before that I always had the impression that CDers were really just homosexuals in disguise (was brought up by a very conservative religious family) until I began asking questions.

The very first day I put on a dress (with help of my GG friends) I felt great. We went to a drag show late that night, and dressed entirely en-femme, I recieved many compliments of how I dressed. I felt accepted and comfortable. It was the start of a new life.

While I can't specifically say one person is "born" a CDer any much an artist is "born" artistic. I can say there are experiences throughout life that help shape the individual into who they are. To deny the new persona is like saying "I've spent years training to be a great artist, but my work isn't accepted and understood by the masses so I'll quit now and stick to my day job". Just do what you love :).

[Sophia Rearen]

I have always asked myself the tough questions like "why do I cross dress?", or "What made me this way?" I was just thinking that the answer may in fact be "because". A childish answer to a tough question, but just maybe the right one. "I am a cross dresser because I am," no need to dig deeper just accept my self and move on. Some of you may be already at this point, but it has just dawned on me that I am who I am and I am happy. With this issue behind me I can now move on and better myself and use my mental energy on positive things rather then on the things that just can't be simply answered.

I hope I haven't bored you to tears with my thoughts but I have come to this realization and talking about it brings closure to the issue. I have you all to thank, because with out you (CD, TG, TS, and GG's) all sharing your thoughts and experiences, I would never have been able to have this experience.

Trisha Ann,
Conratulations, you have been down the road to self acceptance. Of course, it is easier for you to say, "because I am" because you have travelled the road. It's the journey, not the destination. Many, many cd's are not "there" yet. The road needs to be travelled by all of us. Some take the highway, some take the scenic, the long, the roundabout way. But, we all need the journey to accept ourselves for who we are. Yes, it's easy to say, " I am a crossdresser, because, I am" then again, it's not.

In regards to thanking us here, do we all realize that this forum is part of the journey? Without the deep thoughts and insightful threads, what would our road look like?

[kwebb]

Lord knows I must be the queen of deep introspection. Anytime someone says anything remotely resmebling TG or CD and I am within earshot I swear up-and-down its some deep message from the pit of the universe to either unnerve me or empower me.
I have often times in life thought it was the result of some evil demon, or sickness. And looked at trying to stop as some big cosmic battle between being a "good" man and an evil or bad/defective one. There are times when I still do.

If its one thing I've noticed of those who have been down the same road before, they did not accept it until they simply started to look at it from the perspective of ,"its simply something I like to do, nothing more , nothing less". I'm not quite there yet. I still let friends and people I know on a regular basis classify it as some sort of weirdness. Sometimes I think they are right and its me who's got the problem and need to change.

Still struggling.

[Miriannah]

Oh, I've come to this very realization long ago. ;) I do it because I like how it feels, looks, and because I am simply bored of the simplicity and repetitive nature of manclothes. There's no deeper, hidden meaning to it. To me, it's just another part of what my personality enjoys, like video games, foul humor, and various other forms of artistic expression.

Yes, I just called crossdressing a form of artistic expression. :)

[Cathy Anderson]

I was introduced to the world of crossdressing by my GG friends...I put on a dress (with help of my GG friends) I felt great. We went to a drag show late that night, and dressed entirely en-femme, I recieved many compliments of how I dressed. I felt accepted and comfortable. It was the start of a new life.
Well, obviously enjoy your relationships with your GG friends. It's nice that you're in an artistic milieu where such experimentation is viewed positivey.

But a caution seems only fair to mention: it is not unheard of that too much of this sort of thing (GGs dressing and telling a male how good he looks) can tip a regular or psychologically androgynous guy too far feminine.

It is possible that many GGs have (due to all kinds of ways that masculine society exploits women, etc.) an unconscious urge to see men feminized and de-masculinized. It might not appy to your situation, but it's worth thinking about (though, in keeping with the thread, not to an excessive degree).

Since you're new, you probably didn't see a post I made a few weeks ago mentioning the artist Marcel Duchamp and his crossdressing. The article can be found here:

http://www.toutfait.com/issues/volume2/issue_4/articles/graham/graham1.html

Cathy

[Raychel]

I think you are who you are because you were destined to be that way. I don't see it any different then many things in life such as:

why is Venus Williams a natural talent at tennis and I am not?
why is my husband a man and I am a woman?
why do i enjoy working in the yard and building things and the neighbor hates it?

It is all relative here. We were all born with our own unique personailites. They make us who we are. So to say I am a crossdresser, transgender, transsexual just BECAUSE I am...is dead on correct. We each have our own traits for a reason...because we were born that way.

If we weren't all different in our own special way this world would be boring. I don't see someone being a crossdresser,gay, lesbian, straight any different than I see somone who is a carpenter, pilot, bus driver....etc.....we ALL have uniqueness some is more excepted by society than others but we all have the special something that we enjoy and are good at and makes us feel good.......


Very well said. My thought exactly. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Lilith Moon]

It is possible that many GGs have (due to all kinds of ways that masculine society exploits women, etc.) an unconscious urge to see men feminized and de-masculinized.
...or they may have a very conscious urge to do so, like certain GGs in here :cheeky: ..but, either way, so what ? Seems like fun to me. 0.02

[TGMarla]

If its one thing I've noticed of those who have been down the same road before, they did not accept it until they simply started to look at it from the perspective of ,"its simply something I like to do, nothing more , nothing less". How true! It's much like Sophia said, it's part of the road to self-acceptance. Once you stop obsessing about it, things get much easier. I still have days when I'm a bit preoccupied by the thought of getting home in hopes of dressing for a while, but the consuming obsession over it is nearly gone.

I am a crossdresser because I really enjoy wearing women's clothing and emulating women. It's not because of some childhood trauma, or an overbearing parent. It's not because I feel inadequate as a man. It's not because there's a woman inside of me screaming to get out. (She doesn't scream...) It's because I like it.

[Cathy Anderson]

Seems like fun to me
I didn't mean to suggest not having fun. I just raised it as a possibility to consider.

> or they may have a very conscious urge to do so

21-year old women are in general not exacly renowned for having a high degree of conscious awareness of their motives. :)

>...but, either way, so what ?

Because one doesn't want to be socially reinforced and/or unconsciously manipulated by other people into potentially becoming a person other than who you are meant to be.

my .02

Cathy

[Emma Brownings]

I have always asked myself the tough questions like "why do I cross dress?", or "What made me this way?" I was just thinking that the answer may in fact be "because". A childish answer to a tough question, but just maybe the right one. "I am a cross dresser because I am," no need to dig deeper just accept my self and move on. Some of you may be already at this point, but it has just dawned on me that I am who I am and I am happy. With this issue behind me I can now move on and better myself and use my mental energy on positive things rather then on the things that just can't be simply answered.


Hi Trisha,

:iagree: Having reached the ripe old age of 59, I can honestly say that I now accept myself for what I am. I still don't know why but what the hell, I am happy, I have a supportive wife and I have the money and time to indulge my femme side.

I must admit it hasn't always been that easy and without my wife's insistence that the reasons didn't matter, I may still be full of destructive doubts and questions. My wife's favourite phrase was 'it's not doing anybody any harm so why not enjoy?'

I doubt whether any of the theories put forward by 'deep thinking' and usually 'well meaning' analysts will provide satisfactory answers for all of us. After all we are all so different, both in the needs we have and the stage we have reached on our CD/TV/TGirl journey.

[Cathy Anderson]

I doubt whether any of the theories put forward by 'deep thinking' and usually 'well meaning' analysts will provide satisfactory answers for all of us. After all we are all so different, both in the needs we have and the stage we have reached on our CD/TV/TGirl journey.
A rather unique appeal of the Jungian psychological framework is precisely it's emphasis on individuality. In fact, the desired state of psychological attainment is called "individuation."

It's not a one-size-fits-all approach. Rather, it's a framework which posits certain things (like anima, shadow, Self) which are helpful conceptual tools for each person to think about their own situation with.

The human race has reached a point were non-conscious living doesn't work. Islamic terrorists operate at that level. Bush and Cheney operate at that level. Jerry Falwell operates at that level. And so do we if we cannot ask "why do we do this?"

Am I saying anything especially controversial by merely suggesting a middle path between no introspection and excessive introspection?

Cathy

[ladyelaine]

Dear All. I liked the point about individuation, and the Jungian framework in there somewhere. I especially liked the first post about keeping it simple and framework is a pleasant enough word for simplicity.

It's nice to have the reassurance of structure, and the common place is reassuring, but I think the need for communicating does get to the deeper meaning, even though that is not the end all and be all. Otherwise, we'd be dancing on the head of a pin with all the other Angels.

Elaine

[Amanda T]

Trisha Anne: I wish there was something I could do, or know, or take, that would eitherr let the genie out of the bottle, or exorcise her completely. This never-never world I presume most of us live in is for the birds --- all 57 years of them (well, only been dressing for 45). A simple or complicated answer would go a long way to greater understanding, by me and my beloved wife. She does not understand, hates the thought of my dressing, and refuses to deal with it or talk about it. So I am left sneaking around whenenever she is not home. So dearly wish I could come out to someone understanding, and interact in a "normal" way. Sometimes, I think if I could do that, and get used to it, it would all go away, or be so customary it would be unremarkable. No such luck on either count, so I just enjoy this community the best I can. Some (a lucky few), seem to have understanding (tolerant?) SOs. For the rest, instead of the Secret Garden we're the "secret burden." There is no health worker we can safely tell, and no medicine we can take -- unless we are willing to potentially be jettisoned by all we love.

[Sophia Rearen]

Hello! Trisha Anne, are you there?
2 days and 21 replies and no follow up from you!
I for one would like to see your thoughts.

[trisha_anne]

My apologies to you all who have posted here. I am a very busy individual so I don't get much time to check the forum. Didn't mean to make any one angry at me, I just work a lot.

First off I never meant that we would be happier if we stop looking for answers per say. It's just sometimes I think some people, including me, dig and dig and dig for an answer to the tough questions until we make ourselves miserable. To me it is not important to now why I am the way I am; it is important that I am happy the way I am. I came to a realization that I was happy and digging for answers wasn't making me happier; in fact it was down right depressing me. As far as the point of there are no answers, I don't believe that either. I may not have been clear on this point and for that I apologize, but I was saying that looking for those answers was no longer important to me. Quite possibly I am to the point were I wouldn't care to know why I am the way I am. Some have a "need to know" type personality, while I do not.

It was this point I was trying to convey, and share with the rest. I was merely thinking that sharing this might help some. I am not so naive as to think it was the beat all end all solution to anyone's problems.

[Sophia Rearen]

It's just sometimes I think some people, including me, dig and dig and dig for an answer to the tough questions until we make ourselves miserable. To me it is not important to now why I am the way I am; it is important that I am happy the way I am. I came to a realization that I was happy and digging for answers wasn't making me happier; in fact it was down right depressing me.

I may not have been clear on this point and for that I apologize, but I was saying that looking for those answers was no longer important to me. Quite possibly I am to the point were I wouldn't care to know why I am the way I am. Some have a "need to know" type personality, while I do not.

It was this point I was trying to convey, and share with the rest. I was merely thinking that sharing this might help some. I am not so naive as to think it was the beat all end all solution to anyone's problems.

Trisha Anne,

Thank you for your follow up. Having read this, I ask you, don't you feel that it was the process, the road, that you travelled that got you to this point? Had you not gone through that, to the point of depression, could you have come up with the same conclusion?

Myself, I went through years of what you described to come out with the same outcome.

[trisha_anne]

Trisha Anne,

Thank you for your follow up. Having read this, I ask you, don't you feel that it was the process, the road, that you travelled that got you to this point? Had you not gone through that, to the point of depression, could you have come up with the same conclusion?

Myself, I went through years of what you described to come out with the same outcome.


That is a good question Sophia. I must honestly answer you with "no", I believe it is my experiences in life and the trials and tribulations that I went through that made me, me. I have used my years of depression and learned from it. Plus this forum my wife and friends have all contributed. It is just that when I finally realized what I was doing to myself, I thought to myself, wouldn't have been great if I could have just accepted myself in the first place. Of course that answer is yes, it would have been much better then the depression and the questioning. I hoped that sharing my revelation with others might help some. I hoped that sharing my experience would save some people from so much depression. It is my biggest regret that I couldn't have figured this out earlier so as to better enjoy myself and my time enfemme.

As my father once told me, "It is the journey that makes a man." So yes I believe that the process was a big part of who I am. Maybe I have been a little conflicting with my answers. I have said, "wouldn't we be happier if we skipped the depression" and now I have told you that the depression and the hard ship made me a better person. But still maybe my experiences will some of those who haven't reached the point of acceptance that you experience and that I have just discovered. It is part of me, but does everyone have to suffer through this to make it here?

[RenaCD]

Trisha Anne thank you your a class act and I'm sure that this thread will be a help to others as you hoped.
I too feel that it's time for me to stop with the questions and just be who I am and thats a big jump.
That sense of being has come with the acceptance of my wife and the peace of mind that nothing else matters.
I could go on and on about the road to this place of self-acceptance, but I won't I'm there and it's great!

Thanks Again Great Thread
Hugs All Around Rena

[trisha_anne]

I am glad that I can help Rena. I hope other will find something of value in this and any other threads on this forum. I am glad I found it. Now I feel that I have to contribute to repay those who have come before me.

This is a wonderful site lets keep it going.:)

[Kimberley]

Hi Trisha,
An interesting question and maybe in some cases it is true that we seek too many answers. For many others (myself included) the questions are more pertinent in discovering where on the spectrum we are and how we are going to go forward. We are a polymorphic lot.

I know I am a CD. I also know I am TG but to what extent? I have very strong TS identification but in that there is much confusion over values, lifestyle etc.

So, seeking answers should be an exercise in self discovery through the experiences of others. It is for me. In seeking answers we also gain more close contact with others either in the forums or through messaging.

[trisha_anne]

Hi Trisha,
An interesting question and maybe in some cases it is true that we seek too many answers. For many others (myself included) the questions are more pertinent in discovering where on the spectrum we are and how we are going to go forward. We are a polymorphic lot.

I know I am a CD. I also know I am TG but to what extent? I have very strong TS identification but in that there is much confusion over values, lifestyle etc.

So, seeking answers should be an exercise in self discovery through the experiences of others. It is for me. In seeking answers we also gain more close contact with others either in the forums or through messaging.


I see your points. I believe you are right. Some questioning is needed. I was mearly suggetsting that maybe we get too obsessed with finding the answers to our questions to the point where we drag ourselves down. I myself was so focused on finding the answers for so long that I made myself misrable. I found myself asking over and over "why am I this way." It was when I finaly realized that by continuing to dig for the answers I was keeping myself from self acceptence. The relief I felt when I was finally able to say "I am the way I am because that's me, I am a crossdresser", was tremendous.

I can see the self questioning is important to discover the if you are just CD, or if you are TG or TS. But after finding the answer to this I found that I obbesed with the "Why." This tends to be the harder question to anwer. And like I stated above I found that continualy searching for the answer was tearing me apart and keeping me from accepting myslef. Often times, I have found, that defining who I am is easy; explaining why can be very difficult and to some extent there is no one easy answer.

[Cathy Anderson]

And like I stated above I found that continualy searching for the answer was tearing me apart and keeping me from accepting myslef. Often times, I have found, that defining who I am is easy; explaining why can be very difficult and to some extent there is no one easy answer.
I understand. Maybe we've all gone through that.
But it doesn't have to be an either-or thing--perhaps one can accept where we are currently, yet still ask questions. One can ask without without doing so "continually."

Asking questions only becomes a problem if we put pressure on ourselves to find immediate answers.

Humility helps--to accept that, in a sense, one is *not responsible* for knowing what's going one with oneself. In other words, I think it is helpful to continue to try to understand oneself--the alternative is to be a slave to one's "unconscious". But one is not necessarily responsible for the results of those efforts.

Perhaps I am "supposed" to be a CD, or perhaps not. I try to keep my mind open to both possibilities--to be indifferent, as it were.

If answers are not forthcoming, I don't get frustrated, but accept that it's not for me to know right now.

But I have to ask, because there's a lot of ways to deceive ourselves.

Cathy

[trisha_anne]

Asking questions only becomes a problem if we put pressure on ourselves to find immediate answers.


Here you make a good point. Actually a better point then you probably realized. Patience is not one of my good points. I have never been the type to just let things go undecided and leave them hanging. I am the type that always has to tie up loose ends. I know that learning patience sooner in life would have saved me some anguish.


But I have to ask, because there's a lot of ways to deceive ourselves.


You are right there as well. I have found that I will tell myself anything to make me happy or to forget about a problem. But I stand by what I have said.

[Sophia Rearen]

That is a good question Sophia. I must honestly answer you with "no", I believe it is my experiences in life and the trials and tribulations that I went through that made me, me. I have used my years of depression and learned from it. Plus this forum my wife and friends have all contributed. It is just that when I finally realized what I was doing to myself, I thought to myself, wouldn't have been great if I could have just accepted myself in the first place. Of course that answer is yes, it would have been much better then the depression and the questioning. I hoped that sharing my revelation with others might help some. I hoped that sharing my experience would save some people from so much depression. It is my biggest regret that I couldn't have figured this out earlier so as to better enjoy myself and my time enfemme.

As my father once told me, "It is the journey that makes a man." So yes I believe that the process was a big part of who I am. Maybe I have been a little conflicting with my answers. I have said, "wouldn't we be happier if we skipped the depression" and now I have told you that the depression and the hard ship made me a better person. But still maybe my experiences will some of those who haven't reached the point of acceptance that you experience and that I have just discovered. It is part of me, but does everyone have to suffer through this to make it here?

Trisha Anne,
Thanks for your reply and your honesty. I understand completely your desire to help, that's wonderful. That's what this forum is all about. But, I tend to agree with you when you say,"maybe i have been a little conflicting in my answers". When was your relevation? If it was just last week, I'd suggest giving your impatient brain a little time and maybe revisit this question at a later date. Maybe then you'll realize that road needed to be travelled to get to your destination, self acceptance.

[Ms. Donna]

Maybe I have been a little conflicting with my answers. I have said, "wouldn't we be happier if we skipped the depression" and now I have told you that the depression and the hard ship made me a better person. But still maybe my experiences will some of those who haven't reached the point of acceptance that you experience and that I have just discovered. It is part of me, but does everyone have to suffer through this to make it here?

In the forward to his book The Twilight of the Idols, Neitzsche makes the following observation:

War has always been the grand sagacity of every spirit which has grown too inward and too profound; its curative power lies even in the wounds one receives.

And a maxim he shares with us:

increscunt animi, virescit volnere virtus.

which translates as "The spirit grows, strength is restored by wounding."

I share these because while our lives might have been happier sans all the angst, would they have been better? I don't know, but I do believe that we learn and gain strength through our conflicts.

You ask, do we all have to go through this? The answer is yes. Some more - some less - but we all have to. It's a learning process - and much like you can try and teach your children what to do and not to do, some things still need to be lived in order for them to become real to an individual. Being TG in society today is one of those things.

I was real close to suicide by the end of high school. Not that I was majorly depressed, but I just didn't see the point of living with the conflict and angst for some sixty-odd years longer. After 'rethinking' my position on suicide, it would take me some eighteen years before I got to the point of self acceptance. During this time, I rationalized, denied and whatnot in an attempt to 'understand' myself. In the end, however, I feel that I am in a better place because of it all.

There is no better 'therapy' for us that the exchange of experiences. We are such a diverse lot that we all can learn and grow by sharing with each other. I know that I would not have reached the place where I am had it not been for others sharing in their experiences - both good and bad.

Love & Stuff,
Donna

[Sophia Rearen]

Donna,
One Word, Powerful.

[gennee]

I agree with Cathy J. I am in my mid fifties and never had the desire to crossdress until last summer. I have been dressing ever since. I am a closeted Cd but I'm at peace with it. I wear something feminine every day and dress up when the occasion permits. I dress because I love to. Enjoy it and have a good time.

Gennee

[Cathy Anderson]

Hi Donna,

Thank you for your observations. And good, quotes, too!

Another possibly relevant idea of Nietzche is his distinction between the Appolonian and Dionysian elements of human nature: Dionysian = wild emotion or sensation, and Appolonian = calm reason.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birth_of_Tragedy

American men seem extremely dominated by the Appolonian. But if Nietzche is correct, the Dionysian has to express itself somehow--maybe CDing is an outlet for that.

If so, this suggests, perhaps if ones dominant male personality can find more ways to express the Dionysian, there would be less need to crossdress.


Patience is not one of my good points. I have never been the type to just let things go undecided and leave them hanging. I am the type that always has to tie up loose ends.
Trisha, I know what you mean. I think a lot of us have this and similar issues. Maybe one reason we crossdress is to try to grow and learn concerning such things. Perhaps our female "alter ego" has, among other things, a compensatory, instructive function; it lets us experience, experiment with, and learn feelings, emotions, attitudes, etc., that, for whatever reason, we exclude (unnecessarily?) from our male personality.

Maybe others have also noticed how common is the "bad boy to good girl" motif in transgender fiction; perhaps this literary theme has a deeper meaning. This idea fits with the suggestion that sometimes it is the most masculine kinds of men--soldiers, policemen, etc.--who crossdress.

Cathy

[Ms. Donna]

Hi Donna,

Thank you for your observations. And good, quotes, too!

Another possibly relevant idea of Nietzche is his distinction between the Appolonian and Dionysian elements of human nature: Dionysian = wild emotion or sensation, and Appolonian = calm reason.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birth_of_Tragedy

American men seem extremely dominated by the Appolonian. But if Nietzche is correct, the Dionysian has to express itself somehow--maybe CDing is an outlet for that.

If so, this suggests, perhaps if ones dominant male personality can find more ways to express the Dionysian, there would be less need to crossdress.

Hi Cathy,

Good connection!

Neitzsche views the Appolonian as indicative of mankind in a declining state. By surrendering to 'reason at any cost' and a constructed arbitrary morality, mankind has become decadent, turning it's back on the very instincts which are the most strengthing and life affirming. The Dionysian, which on one level can be viewed as 'wild emotion', is more of an acknowledgement of and a return to those life affirming instincts which, in a 'reasonable' and 'moral' society are seen as wild and immoral.

To expand on the concept of the Dionysian - again from Twilight of the Idols:

For it is only in the Dionysian mysteries, in the psychology of the Dionysian condition, that the fundamental fact of the Hellenic instinct expresses itself - its 'will to life'.
...
In the teachings of the mysteries, pain is sanctified: the 'pains of childbirth' sanctify pain in general - all becoming and growing, all that guarantees the future, postulates pain... For the eternal joy in creating to exist, for the will to life eternally affirm itself, the 'torment of childbirth' must also exist eternally... All this is contained in the word Dionysos: I know of no more exalted symbolism than this Greek symbolism, the symbolism of the Dionysian.
...
Affirmation of life even in its strangest and strenest problems, the will to life rejoicing in its own inexhaustibility through the sacrifice of its highest types - that is what I call Dionysian, that is what I recognized as the bridge to the psychology of the tragic poet.

The tragic artist is not a pessimist - it is precisely he who affirms all that is questionable and terrible in existence, he is Dionysian..."

To tie this all in, we are raised in a society which by its very nature teaches us that those feelings and drives which are the more life affirming are to be surpressed. For us, the need, the drive, to be true to ourselves - to embrace that in us which is most life affirming - is so surpressed and oppressed that it reaches a point where it can no longer be contained. Our self realization and acceptance is for all intents and purposes a psychological childbirth and one can not experience it without the associated pain. "all becoming and growing, all that guarantees the future, postulates pain..."

It is the pain of our becoming that is the affirmation of our life.

Love & Stuff,
Donna

[joni-alice]

there are no answers,

only questions.
(all the rest is commentary, as they say)


hugs,
j-a:cool:

[Cathy Anderson]

.. we are raised in a society which by its very nature teaches us that those feelings and drives which are the more life affirming are to be surpressed. For us, the need, the drive, to be true to ourselves - to embrace that in us which is most life affirming - is so surpressed and oppressed that it reaches a point where it can no longer be contained
This is so important!

I wish I could communicate it, first, to other CDs.

But also to wives. Wives can become so distraught. They wonder what is "wrong" with their husband. Or they blame themselves. But it might be closer to the truth to see the problem as being with modern society, and it's singular emphasis on the Appolonian.

I suspect that nearly everybody in modern society suffers from this in some way. CDs merely have their variation.

Cathy

[Ms. Donna]

Hi Cathy,

Thank you so much for making this connection. I have been working on a manuscript and have been struggling with exactily how to tie in Neitzsche's views - which have become the basis for much of my own personal philosophy - with the whole transgender experience. I know the connection but have been unable to articulate it until now - this has helped with that greatly.

I'll say it again, we all learn and grow through sharing as a community. My thanks go out to all.

Love & Stuff,
Donna

[Rachel Morley]

Hi Trisha Anne,

This is a great thread....very thought provoking :)

I know for myself, I used to struggle with the "whys" and "wherefores" of my crossdressing. I don't know if it's just the nature of the individual (especially a logic driven male individual) or in my case, the engineer in me wanting to find the route cause, but until I met my wife Marla, I was always trying to analyze it and in fact I was on the verge of going to a councilor about it because I wanted to get to a place where I could live my life without crossdressing being some pleasurable sin. When I was dressing I was happy - afterwards I used to feel so guilty about it all.

Anyway, after many many long hours emailing and speaking on the phone with Marla (she lived in the US and I in the UK at the time) not only did I fall in love but I came to realize that it didn't matter "why" it only mattered "how" by that I mean how I feel about it and how I let it impact my life. Obviously having a wife who actually likes it and wants to participate in it goes a huge way to making it easier for me to accept my crossdressing and myself. I have a lot of empathy for girls who are having a hard time accepting this part of themselves.

If we can somehow stop feeling that we have to live up to the expectations of society, our friends, or family or anything else that says we should act (and dress) a certain way just because we are biologically male, then I believe this is the way forward. There have been a lot of good points raised here and I agree with all of them...TG Marla, Sophia, Cathy, to name just a few.

For me, when all is said and done, it's just a way of "being nice to myself". Some people like a long soak in the tub, others like to eat chocolate chip ice cream, me .... I prefer to wear something soft and feminine to make my day.

[Alex R]

I'm new to the forum so hi.

This thread has really grabbed my intention in that coming out to myself at the turn of the year I've been wondering why at 49 it's taken me so long to finally conclude that I am a crossdresser and happy to be so. Albeit, one who is in the closet; have a family I don't want to hurt.

But why do I need (and not want) to do it. I've concluded - or at least I think I have - that it's that I'm attracted to women who dress really well and stylishly that I want to emulate them. By doing so both comforts me and makes me feel good.

Strange no doubt to many people but something I feel comfortable with and as one subscribre to this thread has already mentioned the road is probably more important than the destination. Life is not a dress rehearsal! (Please pardon the pun).

[sallycd8]

I am a 60 year old crossdresser and have dressed most of my life......I used to sak myself WHY but now I just thank God that I DO. I can never explain to anyone who doesn't dress the feeling of being completely at ease when dressed. I have found no other way to leave the confusion and hassle of the world behind than to slip into fem clothing,sit back and breath deeply.
So don't ask WHY just enjoy..:cheeky:

[Cathy Anderson]

...the feeling of being completely at ease when dressed. I have found no other way to leave the confusion and hassle of the world behind than to slip into fem clothing,sit back and breath deeply.
This suggests two levels at which one can address the question "why do I crossdress?"

At one level, you crossdress to (1) be at ease, (2) leave confusion and hassle, and (3) sit back and breathe deeply. To some extent, that is an explanation itself.

At another level, we can ask why crossdressing has those effects.

Even if we cannot answer the second question, I think there is some value in exploring the first, more proximal one.

I don't know if I'm making a useful point here or not.

Cathy

[sparks]

Cathy you are sounding very professional! Keep it up!

I've been asking myself alot these days Why would a man want to wear a bra? I've nothing (unfortunally) to put in the cups.
My answer tonight anyway is because it makes me feel feminine and sexy.
Plus it's just plain fun!

I simply can only dream for Size C.

Thanks anyway

[JoannaDees]

Many times I have used that "because it's just the way it is" thought to get peace. The battles still return though.

[melissacd]

I believe the why is simply that for much of our lives we have not been true to who we really are. We are caught up in and believe the artificial constructs called male and female, masculine and feminine. We are tricked into believing that there are two and only two states and that biology and gender are synonomous. They aren't.

What I believe we are really doing is trying to get back to our proper set point. We were born a certain way, our upbringing taught us to ignore how we really felt inside and comply with the artificial settings created by society and yet inside we knew something was not right and we have been spening the rest of our lives trying to get back to where we started.

That is why so many of us feel so good when we finally connect with our feminine side. It is not necessarily that we reject everything else, we just begin to understand that this is who we really are, this is who we have been all along.

When all of the theories and labels and postulations are thrown aside, it simply comes down to - be yourself - you already know what that is.