Crossdressing and submission

[adrienner99]

It's probably a minority, but I am curious about "submissive" crossdressers. I see this theme in crossdressing literature all the time. Understanding why we crossdress is difficult enough, but to understand this "subset" of men who enjoy various levels of submission is even more elusive.

And I am not trying to be judgmental or critical at all. I am simply trying to understand it. And yes, when dressed I do have a lot of submissive fantasies myself.

So my questions are: If you are a submissive, what do you feel you get out of it? Why do you feel you are wired that way? And how is it connected to crossdressing?

Perhaps also...would you call yourself submissive when in male mode? Or are you agressive, confrontational?

[sometimes_miss]

So my questions are: If you are a submissive, what do you feel you get out of it?
What I would get out of it (if I could find a somewhat dominant female who was interested in me, which I've never found), is the release from the responsibility for the success of the sex, and the responsibility for the performance required to bring the other person to orgasm. Think: if you have difficulties staying hard through a session often, it creates an enormous amount of stress. In order to 'perform' as a male usually does, it takes a lot of mental gymnastics to do that, while imagining that I'm doing something else entirely.

Why do you feel you are wired that way?
I was molested as a kid; essentially, an older boy turned me into his girlfriend. Having a seven year intimate relationship in the role of a girl, the feeling that role was what I was supposed to be 'stuck'. I only feel normal when behaving as a female during sex. Problem is, I'm not attracted to men, and very few women enjoy always being the 'top'.

And how is it connected to crossdressing?
As above, I was dressed as, (he supplied the outfits he wanted me to wear) and behaved as, (he told me what to do) and felt I was supposed to be a girl for all those years. Apparently when that happens during certain stages of personality development, it can become a permanent part of who we are. I'm not saying it happens to everyone; but it apparently happened to me.

I can't tell you why other crossdressers might prefer being submissive, though it would of course possibly be related to the fact that females are usually the 'receptive', or submissive person in sex, while the male is usually the active person.
It's the old story; a man has to know all the things to do for sex to happen. A woman doesn't have to be good; she just has to be there.

[Micki_Finn]

Can't really tell you as I'm not really that way but I've seen it run the gamut from a certain old fashioned "women's docility" to "FORCE ME TO DRESS UP AND FEMINIZE ME AGAINST MY WILL AND HUMILIATE ME" so unique snowflakes and all that. Ask those questions of 100 different people you'll get 100 different answers. Also, to address your last question: One can be "aggressive and confrontational" in male mode or in vanilla life or whatever you wanna call it, but still be sexually submissive in bed.

[Tracii G]

SM so you say this older boy turned you into his girlfriend?
You must have known the boy was gay but you say you aren't attracted to men but yet you did the deed with him? Why?
You must have enjoyed it to some extent I would think.
As far as being molested as a kid as you grew up it would have been normal to despise any part of submissive sex with whoever and be more geared to being the dominant one.
As a boy I engaged in things sexual with other boys and really liked it so early on I knew I was attracted to guys but never got into a situation like you did.
Having someone force themselves on me is not something I would put up with.

[Periwinkle]

I'm pretty submissive, but it has absolutely nothing to do with my crossdressing. I can't even think about doing something sexual while dressed without cringing a little. It makes me feel very uncomfortable for some reason.

[Micki_Finn]

Tracii, I don't think victim blaming is appropriate here. Questioning a sexual assault victim why it happened is absolutely uncalled for.

[OCCarly]

I am not submissive myself but I have a few thoughts.

I think Sometimes Miss has a point about being able to cast off the responsibility for the enjoyment of the sex and having to figure out how to give the other person an orgasm. Being totally taken care of is a pretty nice vacation from a high stress lifestyle.

And there is undoubtedly some overlap into forced feminization. To me, forced feminization is kind of like a guy saying "Kings X, I'm not really a crossdresser, someone made me do this." Again it is a way of taking pleasure without having to deal with the responsibility.

[nikinylons]

For me, dressing instantly makes me submissive which provides a perfect balance to my dominant male life. According to my wife, that balance also makes me much easier to live with lol

[Dana44]

I never thought of myself as submissive. Women have told me that I am easy. For me, I am comfortable with females. And while out and about I am with her. I am very social and easy to talk to. But all in safety. I do not like confrontational people and stay away from them in male or female mode. But for me it is not submissive but easy to be. .

[Katey888]

So, Adrienner, if you have a lot of submissive fantasies what do you feel you get out of it...? :)

I think your observation that you see this disproportionately in CD literature is correct - but what you see in literature does not necessarily make it representative of reality... I would suspect that this surfaces in literature simplistically to support the stereotype of: male=dominant, female=submissive and as we are expressing our feminine side then to really be entirely embracing femininity-ness (or at least the stereotype of that) then we would - or should - be expressing a more submissive persona. Simply, it's an over-compensation.

As a group, I'd guess we probably do fit the stereotype (steps back amid howls and masculine grunts declaring machismo is possible while wearing 5" platforms... yeah - whatever... :doh:) For me, I don't think I really change just through dressing, but I do admit to loving women who know what they want... :o and I have a lazy streak a mile wide... :tongueout

Katey x

[Alice_2014_B]

I sometimes wear a bondage collar when en femme.
Granted that it's a universal symbol of submission, that's about as far as it goes.
:)

[Lana Mae]

Not submissive at all! Hugs Lana Mae

[Alice Torn]

For a very long time, i have felt that i would be the rather passive submissive one in sex. I always felt most women were terrified and turned off by sex. My sister is one who never wanted a man or sex, and othersi knew were also "frigid". So, i felt that my maleness was predatory, and i have striven to be non aggressive about it. When dressed up, i feel like a rather submissive dolled up lady, with some limits and boundries, though, a little assertive, yet rather submissive. I think if i were married, the wife would have to be dominant mostly.

[TrishaLake]

Sm, I feel exactly where you are from because I have been in the same place. From what therapy and some weeks in arizona taught me, is once that is burned into as a child you tend to look for that(simple explanation I am sure). I am usually not submissive, enjoy life as a man who knows he also has a female side. My overall preference would be to be submissive in bed most of the time as well. I just find that is my space for sexual activity. I can be versatile to be please so done else but that is my preference. (Boy I had to choose my words carefully for this one).

There is nothing to be ashamed of , that is what I learned later in life. Be you!

[ellbee]

I suppose it depends on what kind of context? :strugglin


For example: Sex?

A girl can always be on top, controlling things that way.

And yeah, most also have at least some teeth. :D


Who's the submissive one, again? :devil:

[CONSUELO]

I am submissive sexually, especially when dressed. i was this way with my BF and I have had sessions with DOMS that were extremely satisfying. Why am I this way? I have no idea any more than I understand why I am a fetishistic transvestite. It's all a mystery.

[Tracii G]

Passive /submissive ?? How does that work Alice?
MIcki I was not victim blaming it was an honest question and not asked with malicious intent.
I am truly curious thats why I asked it.

[Alice Torn]

I have male penis shame, Tracii. Felt guilty about being predatory, as the women i have tried for, were terrified of sex, and i was taught as a kid that sex was bad. So, i am the more passive one, semi submissive if i ever get into a relationship, but assertive enough to set boundries. I am a mess!

[Tracii G]

Thank you Alice I understand now.

[sometimes_miss]

SM so you say this older boy turned you into his girlfriend? You must have known the boy was gay but you say you aren't attracted to men but yet you did the deed with him? Why?
The whole story is in my bio, link is in my sig. Feel free to read it and learn all the answers to your questions. In the early 60's, the most common use for the word gay, meant happy. The generally accepted use of the word to mean homosexual wasn't widespread at that point, though it might have been used in some areas.

I was 7 years old. I knew nothing about sex, and had zero sexual feelings or desires. You make the typical mistake that many adults do; you have assigned adult knowledge and mental capability to children who have not, and will not develop that for many years. Remember, we're talking about kids of an age who still believed in santa claus and the easter bunny.


You must have enjoyed it to some extent I would think.
This is the most common statement you hear from child molesters; that the child would not have done it if they didn't like it. It's how they justify abusing those kids.


As far as being molested as a kid as you grew up it would have been normal to despise any part of submissive sex with whoever and be more geared to being the dominant one.
I have no idea where you get that idea. Perhaps some classes in psychology will help you.


As a boy I engaged in things sexual with other boys and really liked it so early on I knew I was attracted to guys but never got into a situation like you did.
How old were you? How old were the other boys? For me it was a six year age difference. He was older, smarter, and supposedly wiser. I did as I was told.


Having someone force themselves on me is not something I would put up with.
Typical macho response. They rarely have to force themselves on you. They convince you that it's something that you should do.


Tracii, I don't think victim blaming is appropriate here. Questioning a sexual assault victim why it happened is absolutely uncalled for.
It's ok. I'm used to it. I worked though all this decades ago. Asking questions helps people learn. Even a lot of people with doctorate degrees are ignorant to all this; they simply never studied it. When I did my child psych rotation, even then it wasn't discussed to any length. That's a primary reason why it's still so common; people don't know it's going on under their noses. Mental health professionals know that in the recent past, anyway, one in four girls is subject to sexual abuse, and one in six boys. Look at any children's classroom. At least one of those kids is very likely currently having sex of some kind with an older person. And, they are almost always sworn to secrecy by that older person. It's very hard to get them to tell you what's going on, as far too many people assign the responsibility to the kid for what's happening, just like Tracii does. They have forgotten what it's like to be a child of that age, when you don't have the knowledge to challenge what someone tells you, or the nerve to do so because they are so much older, bigger, and smarter than you are. And if you have to rely on that person for physical protection? You're really stuck. You have no choice. So you do as you're told. And it goes on and on for sometimes many years. So watch the children. If you see something that looks fishy, investigate. You may be saving that kid's life.

[Tracii G]

I'm sorry I asked now but be assured I was not trying to be a smart ass or demean you in any way.
I see my assumptions were not anywhere near correct but thats why I asked I wasn't trying to be mean so I'm so sorry.
As far as my first boy encounters 7 or 8 years old basically pleasuring each other. I new nothing about sex at the time pretty sure the birds and bees story hadn't been told to me yet by my parents.
I get in trouble when I ask questions on this site but I am a very curious person.I guess I need to stop being that way and leave.
Thanks SM I feel like shit now so if I made you feel like shit I'm sorry.

[sometimes_miss]

I'm sorry I asked now but be assured I was not trying to be a smart ass or demean you in any way.
No offense taken. I realize that most people simply don't know.


As far as my first boy encounters 7 or 8 years old basically pleasuring each other.
Interesting. Shortly after I was taught to masturbate him, I tried the same thing on myself, but felt well, nothing. While I have read about boys who masturbated at early ages, I can't identify with it, as I didn't have any sexual feelings until much later. It was a different time, and no one was telling children ANYTHING about sex. No internet, no porn anywhere, nothing. TV was sterile, married folks slept in separate beds on TV back then. Sex wasn't ever talked about.

I get in trouble when I ask questions on this site but I am a very curious person.I guess I need to stop being that way and leave.
Thanks SM I feel like shit now so if I made you feel like shit I'm sorry.
You have to remember that the site's owners are somewhat legally responsible for what gets mentioned on here. So they have to be careful about what winds up in a forum that anyone can read. If you cross the line, they'll let you know, the mods watch pretty closely.
No reason to feel bad. We learn by asking questions. I remember well what it was like, having teachers and others make me feel stupid for not knowing stuff that there was no way for me to know. So I don't castigate others for it. 'Ask and yee shall learn'. One other thing; if you ask someone something and they make fun of you for not knowing, and then don't tell you either, it's often because THEY DON'T KNOW, THEMSELVES. So they just pretend that they do, and try to make it difficult for you to ask them again, to hide that.

[Tracii G]

My boy experimentation time was in 1960 so yeah times were much different then.
I'm all for asking questions no matter how crazy they may sound because that is how you learn. I try to answer questions when asked and not judge people for asking.
These days people are super sensitive and take things the wrong way on here that I'm afraid to ask sometimes.
I obviously upset you and I didn't mean to I just hope you can forgive me.

[Lily Catherine]

It's a disproportionately common trope in crossdressing literature, and I do see it manifest on this forum as well.

I am not particularly confrontational as much as I try to be; I'd rather seek out a harmonious solution as much as possible. When I'm not being assertive, there will be times where I'm being admittedly apathetic.

As regards sexuality, I'm genuinely unsure, with all due respect.

[Mayo]

I tend toward being submissive/passive, in that I'd rather someone else take the initiative, but it's not a cause/effect thing with my CDing; it is, however, likely that in my case at least the two traits stem from the same root personality traits.

[rachael.davis]

I think the passive / submissive crossdresser being "forced" into femininity is sort of a very male thing, it only works if you find femininity demeaning rather than glorious. I hope I haven't offended anyone with that statement, but it's where I've gotten to in transition.
but if it floats your boat make sure you find a cute little sailor outfit to wear http://www.pinuppassion.com/images/pinupg8.jpg

[dolovewell]

I am not submissive at all. I am not gay. I am not a sissy. I have zero, zero, zero, zero interest whatsoever in men. I have no interest whatsoever in doing anything remotely sexually with a guy. None.

I hate the stereotype that because I crossdress, that must mean I am gay, or I am a sissy, or I am open to having some kind of sexual contact with a guy. Not the case. Wish the creepers who reach out to me in PMs and such would understand this. I actually consider it to be insulting, when some creepy guy contacts me and thinks that for some reason, I am a sissy or submissive or gay or open to any kind of sexual relations with a guy. I don't even give them the satisfaction of telling them to piss off - I simply block and ignore.

[Tracii G]

Oh I'm sure you have offended some Rachael.
dolovewell I totally get what you are saying and you have every right to speak your mind.
People think because I'm gay I am a sissy or submissive and its just not the case.I don't like those PM's either.
Being forced or shamed is a kink I just don't have and its not some male "macho" thing at all.
I don't think I could ever let someone"control" me.
I think it stems from one of my older brothers that always tried to hold me down and restrain me.
The more he tried it the more I would fight him.

[sometimes_miss]

I think the passive / submissive crossdresser being "forced" into femininity is sort of a very male thing, it only works if you find femininity demeaning rather than glorious.
Not so at all. It's simply a way of removing the feeling of being responsible for wearing girl clothes. Lots of men feel bad about doing this not because WE think wanting to be female is terrible, but because we know everyone else thinks we should; or are you unfamiliar with the derogitory comments that athletic coaches and drill sergeants make, calling their players and recruits sissies, girly, ladies, and other more crude comments, etc., to insult them in front of all the rest of the 'real men'? While we think being a girl is wonderful, we are told otherwise by, well, pretty much everyone. That's how our society thinks of us. And we know it.

But I don't look for an outfit like you chose; I like this one: 267897

[Lisalove1976]

I am totally submissive while dressed, I think it had a lot to do with just letting go of all macho isms, responsibilities ect...

Wanted to be the receiver and not the provider if that makes sense.

[Krisi]

Tracii, I don't think victim blaming is appropriate here. Questioning a sexual assault victim why it happened is absolutely uncalled for.

I don't see any "victim blaming here". There comes a time when being "politically correct" makes it impossible to exchange information. If you don't want to talk about it, don't post it.

Personally, I would wonder why someone would let someone else "molest" them for seven years.

And to answer the original question, I am not "submissive" during sex, while dressed or otherwise. Not dominant either. Somewhere in between.

[atxpantyboy]

I really enjoyed reading your well-written post and responses, sometimes_miss. I'm a pansexual submissive crossdresser (I self identify as a sissy) and have pondered a lot how about much the two are connected. I love M/M sex and tend to have a lot more of it than I do with women when I'm single and just hooking up, but have mostly been monogamous when dating women. I only date women but enjoy the full gender spectrum sexually. With women I can be dominant or submissive, or a 'switch' I suppose. In a perfect world, I'd probably be about 50/50 Dom/sub in a M/F part-time cuckold relationship. But I am exclusively a submissive bottom with men. And I also think it is for the exact reasons you stated - As a bottom, I am no longer the person responsible for making someone orgasm per se, so I am free to enjoy the moment and the sensations without any anxiety of 'am I pleasing my partner?'. Though I enjoy the experience and sensations immensely, I usually stay completely flaccid when having sex with men and only later on, usually by myself reflecting on the act, do I focus on my own orgasm. Since I am not really physically or emotionally attracted to men, I have always wondered if my bi/gay tendencies were more of an expression of my submissive desires than sexual preferences. And being a sub with men has taught me to be a much better top with women. By putting myself in their place, I feel like I have gained some insight into what is pleasurable to the bottom/sub.

[rachael.davis]

Not so at all. It's simply a way of removing the feeling of being responsible for wearing girl clothes. Lots of men feel bad about doing this not because WE think wanting to be female is terrible, but because we know everyone else thinks we should; or are you unfamiliar with the derogitory comments that athletic coaches and drill sergeants make, calling their players and recruits sissies, girly, ladies, and other more crude comments, etc., to insult them in front of all the rest of the 'real men'? While we think being a girl is wonderful, we are told otherwise by, well, pretty much everyone. That's how our society thinks of us. And we know it.


I think we're saying the same thing. If you think of feminine as demeaning then "ladies" is an insult. I'm probably rossing a moderator line but I taught very traditional martial arts, naginata is a woman's persuit in Japan - I used "ladies" in that class because everyone was.

[ellbee]

"And being a sub with men has taught me to be a much better top with women. By putting myself in their place, I feel like I have gained some insight into what is pleasurable to the bottom/sub."


+1

I have definitely learned some additional "do's & don'ts" this way, where otherwise I would have never been able to experience that first-hand. :)

[LilSissyStevie]

For me the relationship between crossdressing and submissiveness became obvious once I understood that they were just different themes within an overarching emasculation fetish. One can be a crossdresser without being sexually submissive and one can be sexually submissive without being a crossdresser but manly men are neither. My first sexual fantasies, before I even knew what they were, were of the female domination type. Watching re-runs of Sheena:Queen of the Jungle when I was a little boy was porn to me. I would fantasize about being her monkey. lol! Later, at puberty, I came across some "gay" literature about older boys who dressed up younger, weaker boys in girls clothes and used them sexually as girls. It turned me on to imagine myself as an effeminate little fairy although I had no attraction to other males. The connection between them is that they are both emasculation themes. But just because someone is aroused by one theme it doesn't mean they are aroused by just any emasculation theme. But TG, femdom and gaydom literature is peppered with this stuff. But the theme that is common to them all is emasculation.

[JenniferMBlack]

So my questions are: If you are a submissive, what do you feel you get out of it?

In a true dominate submissive relatiinship the submissive gets pleasure from serving their dominate. Also the domanate will be sure and take care of the submissive needs.

Why do you feel you are wired that way?

Don't know how to answer this one. Why is anyone how they are?

And how is it connected to crossdressing?

In literature it is connected to crossdressing g because it is assumed females are the weaker gender, and by crossdressing that makes you weaker.

Perhaps also...would you call yourself submissive when in male mode? Or are you agressive, confrontational?

As a bi I am submissive with men domanate with women, mostly because I have not found a woman who has taken on the domanate role. I won't say wearing woman's clothes makes me submissive though.

Part of the problem in society is poeple think a man can not be straight and submissive, it is reflected in many of the coments here as well. It always suprissess me when poeple think a blanket form for everyone in any type of group, it is never one size fits all no matter what you are talking about when it comes to humans.

[Lorileah]

this is getting way close to the line for this site. Closed