Hormones

[jennifer0918]

My friend who is transgender informed that she stopped taking hormones. Her transition was coming along but her complain with them is the mood swings and she states it's driving her crazy.My question is this is this a normal reaction ?and is it a good idea for her just to stop?things I noticed is she looks like she has a 5 o'clock shadow and her voice sounds deeper.any comment

[karla2016]

Precisely those two things that you mention are the two things that DO NOT change when the person is under HRT. So her five O'clock shadow is herself and her voice maybe she has a cold.

Karla

[Georgette_USA]

HRT shouldn't affect voice or beard. If she had Laser/electrolysis, the beard should have been removed already. If she hasn't had all that done, she could/should continue with that.

The mood swings were part of the reason I stopped HRT 7-8 after SRS. I was on a combo of Estrogen/Progesterone, in a similar to female monthly cycle. My OB/GYN could not see a reason at that time (1985) to continue.

Maybe she needs to have her Endo modify her levels.

[jennifer0918]

Precisely those two things that you mention are the two things that DO NOT change when the person is under HRT. So her five O'clock shadow is herself and her voice maybe she has a cold.

Karla

Ok Karla I had no idea. Thanks

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HRT shouldn't affect voice or beard. If she had Laser/electrolysis, the beard should have been removed already. If she hasn't had all that done, she could/should continue with that.

The mood swings were part of the reason I stopped HRT 7-8 after SRS. I was on a combo of Estrogen/Progesterone, in a similar to female monthly cycle. My OB/GYN could not see a reason at that time (1985) to continue.

Maybe she needs to have her Endo modify her levels.

Thanks for the advice, I will mention it to her my concern was that was maybe harming herself by not taking the hormones that were prescribed to her.

[Krisi]

As a general rule, one should not stop taking prescription medicine without consulting one's doctor. If the medicine was causing problems, she should have talked it over with her doctor.

Maybe she changed her mind?

[Jesse Six]

I have heard of people stop taking Progesterone because it's been associated with depression / anxiety, but they would continue Estrogen.

[Rianna Humble]

Maybe she changed her mind?

Or maybe the reason she gave was the truth rather than what other people would want it to be.

[grace7777]

If the hormones are driving her crazy, then stopping at least temporarily may not be a bad idea. My recommendation would be for her to discuss this with her endocrinologist.

[Carlene]

It seems that your question is more about whether or not it is a good idea to just stop taking her hormones, than it is about why she wants to do so. If that is true, then, if she chooses to move n that directio, the means of doing so should be discussed with her doctor. The introduction to hormones is generally done by prescribing them at lower levels in the beginning and increasing dosage over time. It seems logical, that there might be reasons to retreat from hormones in a similar fashion.

Carlene

[LeaP]

It's a second-hand recounting without sufficient detail to even speculate. "Hormones"? Which? In what combinations? Other meds? Anti-androgens? Strengths? (Can't discuss dosages here anyway.) Administration type? Other medical issues? "Mood swings"? What kind? How often? Other symptoms?

Etc. Not a useful thread.

[jenn_devilz]

HRT shouldn't affect voice or beard. If she had Laser/electrolysis, the beard should have been removed already. If she hasn't had all that done, she could/should continue with that.

The mood swings were part of the reason I stopped HRT 7-8 after SRS. I was on a combo of Estrogen/Progesterone, in a similar to female monthly cycle. My OB/GYN could not see a reason at that time (1985) to continue.

Maybe she needs to have her Endo modify her levels.

I gotta throw my 2 cents in! Personally I have been on HRT for almost 2 months. I've already noticed my beard growth has slowed quite alot and its easier for me to get my voice higher for a more fem sound. Personally I believe that it all comes down to genetics, and how healthy one is. I eat healthy including all the food groups and also exercise regularly. Most people think I'm in my early 20s and I'm actually 32. Also you should NEVER stop taking ANY drug without consulting your physician. The first few weeks were a ride for me but everything settled. I have my days of full on bitch mode but they arent' often. It also helps I have patience. I still get a day here and there with some slight dysphoria but then I just keep thinking that I am beautiful and the world is beautiful and it keeps my mood above the clouds :) Oh and I'm Jenny by the way!

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I forgot to mention I have not done electrolysis or laser on my beard yet I just shave my face as close as I can and roll with it. I don't care if I'm "clocked" I am in transition and if other people have an issue they can keep it to themselves. The moment you stop and forget what others think is the moment you can spread your wings and fly with all the other beautiful birds :)

[LeaP]

Oh please ...

Beard growth and growth rates are the province of voodoo science and shysters, in the same category as baldness treatments.

Voice is a function of physical characteristics - vocal chord spacing, size, and thickness, physicality affecting resonance, etc. Period. No hormone treatment reverses any of these.

[PretzelGirl]

Getting advice on hormones from those not on hormones is not helpful.

The recommendation is always the same when it comes to something like this. Ask the doctor. There are many different delivery methods and we don't know her levels. Both can affect feelings either by being at the wrong level or too much swing between high and low levels. Only a qualified doctor can help on this one.

[jenn_devilz]

Oh please ...

Beard growth and growth rates are the province of voodoo science and shysters, in the same category as baldness treatments.

Voice is a function of physical characteristics - vocal chord spacing, size, and thickness, physicality affecting resonance, etc. Period. No hormone treatment reverses any of these.

I beg to differ. Baldness is brought on by genetics and testosterone. I've been logging my process, everyone reacts to drugs differently than others. Medication for some reason interacts with my body at a much higher level than some which has is drawbacks as side effects are much worse for me. I dunno, I'm sorry you disagree lol but it is what it is :) I never get sick either and haven't had a flu shot in almost a decade. Explain that one.

[PretzelGirl]

What does not getting sick have anything to do with beard growth? It is science that taking HRT doesn't change your voice if you are MTF. Testosterone thickens the vocal cords and it is irreversible. This is why FTMs have their voice drop similar to puberty. Their vocal cords thicken and lower their voice. We have to train. You are either practicing at a higher pitch (voice is more than pitch incidentally) or you are sensing something that isn't there. If you are getting a better voice, good for you, it helps. But it isn't the HRT.

[Teresa]

Jennifer,
I had this conversation with a TS at one of my meetings , in fact she's brought the subject up a couple of times, it is a balancing act, and it can take time to get it right . Lets face it you're basically male taking medication to alter some of those characteristics, side effects are almost inevitable as with many medications, often we hear people say they came off prescribed drugs because of the adverse side effects . I've found antidepressant side effects as bad to deal with as the depression itself, in the case of hormones you may have to live with them or get them reassessed if transition is to continue.

[jenn_devilz]

No lol I don't mind the side effects they are just intense for me. I've been down the antidepressant road twice and never walking down it again. That stuff did nothing good for me. I just stopped worrying about the things that gave me stress. Now I'm stress free no worries etc etc.

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I did some research and there are others than felt the same after starting HRT so I'm not the only one that feels this way. It's also science to question everything and continue to research and retest theories or question theories. Also the fact there are drugs being made to make people live longer lives I find it seriously hard to believe our bodies cannot be fine tuned and react to medicines differently. I also have played music for the majority of my life and am finding it easier to reach higher notes while NOT taking any HRT this was not possible. Again I question EVERYTHING! Science is ALWAYS evolving like life. :) We will just agree to disagree at this point lol no worries

[LeaP]

I said baldness treatments are voodoo science. I know what causes baldness (and it's more than genetics and T). There's some interesting research going on. Nonetheless, surely you're not so literal that you failed to see the rhetorical point?

Your vocal cords are what they are as a male-bodied person. Voice training helps a lot. Slog on.

People "feel" all kinds of things on hormones.

[I Am Paula]

I would not recommend starting, or stopping hormones without an endo in your corner. Perhaps she needs a more stable delivery system (patch). She needs to see her doctor.

[PretzelGirl]

I always like when experienced people state their experience and a new person comes in with their pipe dream *that goes against science* and says "we will just have to agree to disagree". This translates into "I am not going to listen to those who know what they are talking about because my way sounds better".

For everyone considering transition, listen to the folks who have been down the road. It is for your own mental well being. Dysphoria is nothing to mess with and setting unrealistic expectations will clobber you. This is tough enough already without you thinking that a magic pill will give you a woman's body and voice in three months or less. What you are instead doing is taking hormones to normalize your thoughts and feelings. Then you are just you after. With whatever body.

Don't set yourself up for failure...

[Krisi]

Getting advice on hormones from those not on hormones is not helpful..

I disagree. Your doctor is giving you advice on hormones and is probably not on hormones him/herself. Many people study these things and have the advantage of research and studying many different people's experiences, not just one experience. Hormones and other medicines can have different affects on different people.

So I'm not on hormones but my advice is for here to consult with her doctor about the problems she is having with the hormones. Is that not helpful?

[Nigella]

Getting advice on hormones from those not on hormones is not helpful.

The recommendation is always the same when it comes to something like this. Ask the doctor. There are many different delivery methods and we don't know her levels. Both can affect feelings either by being at the wrong level or too much swing between high and low levels. Only a qualified doctor can help on this one.

Just to ensure that the context of the quote used by Krisi is not misunderstood.

[LeaP]

The point is credibility. It's generally over-attributed to doctors. As it happens, most of the real expertise (not knowledge per se) in cross sex hormones administration, as it's off-label usage and very poorly-studied in the academic sense, is in a subset of the trans population itself and in a relatively small handful of doctors with sufficient practice exposure. It's a rather confusing mix of the applicability of known science, it's extension - frankly, by assumption, observation, convention, and speculation. There IS NO BODY OF KNOWLEDGE that accounts for the effects in peer-reviewed form except at the most marginal of margins.

My best recommendation is to undertake serious study yourself, establish a real partnership with your provider, and be prepared to represent (bring in) the collective experience of the trans population as needed.

The good news is that convention works well for most of us. That collective wisdom I mentioned, however, is that the exceptions rarely accelerate one down the happy path. Regarding the semi-miraculous voice capability: Felicitations and happy day! Congratulations! Wondrous news indeed!

A person once jumped off the upper observation deck of the Empire State Building only to be blown by the wind onto the lower. Hopefully they didn't then go about dismissing warnings against jumping. Nor is there sufficient to stop advising the would-be hormonistas that MtF voices are not affected. So sorry.

[KellyJameson]

In my own personal experience and what I have witnessed in ALL other transitioning women without exception. There is a great deal of emotional instability that follows you throughout the transitioning process and beyond. It was of course always there and was and is the very thing you are trying to escape so that you may survive and thrive.

After transitioning you fit well into your own mind, or at least I do, but you still have the often difficult challenges of fitting into society at large.

In my opinion it is not possible to say how much the hormones play in shaping or affecting ones state of mind. They absolutely have an effect but there is so much else going on that they are only one factor among many.

There are many stressful experiences in life. The death of a loved one, divorce,illness, job loss, ect..

Transitioning in my opinion is equal to any of these experiences and often because of transitioning you experience those other stressful examples.

To lay everything at the feet of the hormones and blame them and than stop taking them without the express consent and involvement of the doctors and psychologists whose care she should be under is irrational and could exacerbate the instability that must be there already that compelled transitioning in the first place.

Transitioning is a treatment process to cure an illness. You don't stop and than expect to recover your health and you don't start unless you are sure the illness existed in the first place.

Your friend is either not transsexual or putting herself in great danger by not being willing to do what it takes to become healthy.

Those who identify as transgender change to escape the rigid confines of the gender binary. A transsexual moves toward the binary to become the opposite of what they are. Be sure your friend understands the difference because her/his life depends on it.

[LeaP]

+10, Kelly.

[jennifer0918]

I give up my best advice to my friend I refered her to Howard Brown clinic in Lakeview and have her talk to a professional. THanks ladies for all the info.

[Eryn]

In my HRT, I've not experienced any wide mood swings. If anything, it has moderated my mood swings. The effects are very subtle. I can't say anything about beard, as most of it was removed already. Body hair deceased markedly. Male pattern baldness reversed a bit, but not completely.

That's one data point only, YMMV, LSMFT, etc.

[LeaP]

I think mood swings, at least at a level of concern, are a huge red flag that hormones are not right for the person. Eryn, like you, I found them stabilizing. In my case, very much so.

Viewed another way, T blocks and E unblocks emotions. Trans men find relief in the former. Most trans women, the latter.

[Starling]

My experience, too. Like mother's milk; worst day of my life when I had to stop. Can't wait to get back on, if I'm able.

:) Lallie

[immindy]

Much has been said in response already but thought I would add my personal experience. I have been on hormones consistently now for almost 4 years but prior to that I had started and stopped twice with 3-4 month periods in between . I can assure you , at least in my case, Hormones do not eliminate beard growth but did slow it down significantly for me. Personally, I have had no major mood swing differences just a calmer feeling over all for me when on them verses not being on them.

[Krisi]

First of all, why not invite your friend to join this forum and ask her questions directly.

Second, aren't mood swings normal for a woman? She might be getting there and just doesn't realize it.

[Kate T]

I have literally sat down crying because I was so overwhelmed try to choose a bra early in my transition and the sales assistant was a twenty something who looked more interested in her Facebook than helping me. And I've broken down crying over a clients dog being hit by a car and dying before I could do anything to save it (not that I could have saved it anyway the injuries were so severe). And I've been astonishingly and ecstatically happy just sitting down having dinner with my partner and our kids. And I have also had intense waves and marked pleasure just at the thought of my partner holding me.
I don't know if I would call them mood swings as opposed to just everything is now so much more intense and less dull. Those things would have given me the same feelings before just not as intensely.
All that being said I absolutely love it. I love the intensity of it. Even the sad stuff. I would never give up my HRT voluntarily. I think as others have suggested if HRT is affecting your friend that badly then perhaps they should get reassessed by their doctor + / - psych to make sure this is the best pathway to make them happy.

[MarieTS]

Yes, Kelly--good point about "the challenges of fitting into society at large." Yes, that was my biggest challenge, i.e., penetrating the gg barrier to establish female friends-- particularly if you weren't stealth during transitioning and/or following SRS. Compared to that, mones were a piece of cake. A few adjustments perhaps, but easier and more forgiving than the social aspect.

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OMG, so sorry. My above post was for another thread, Ooppss :eek:

[Vickie_CDTV]

It is anecdotal, but I know plenty of TS over the years, and spend a great deal of time with some of them when they first transition and go on HRT etc. It seems many, probably most, I have known have those mood swings in the beginning. They may get weepy at times, which seems to happen early on. Some also complain of a mental fog, some of depression, but not all. The ones who were once type A males can even get pretty aggressive at times (a couple even scared me once.) Again this is anecdotal... but I have plenty of experience around TSs in both as friends and as a professional.

HRT will not affect the beard like it can some body hair. If it did, I (and many others) would be out of business.

[LeaP]

Note: This response is pure anecdote ... but it's mine, so at least I can attest to it 100%

HRT is said to free the expression of emotion, not create or distort it. That squares with my experience. I used to suppress without a thought - whatever and however I felt. I felt something, I killed it. Simple. Now I have to choose to hold back (i.e., from being open), and suppression isn't a major factor any longer. I get weepy on occasion. I get "gooey," as I call it (lovey) on occasion. I'm happier more often than ever. Alas, I still get depressed, too, even with ADs. Can't avoid that, though, it's more inherited than gender-related. Even so, the positive impact that HRT has had on my depression issues is hard to over-state. Still, none of this considerable change falls into the category of "mood swings." I'm not feeling things differently. Rather, I'm freed to experience the emotions that were always there and not suffering the fallout from suppressing, channeling, and compartmentalizing them.

I'm far less volatile. No explosions. No shutdowns for weeks at a time. Quick to recover from everyday issues. Less reactive. More open to change. Manic episodes are fewer and lesser in intensity. Less aggression and "quicker" (as opposed to never) to apologize when I offend. And I try NOT to offend or be abrasive, which used to be the norm. I've found I like people (that was new).

Again, no "mood swings," which is minimally a negative term when not actually pathological. I guess there are two uses, though. One that terms a more open emotional expressiveness such. The other an intrusive, uncontrollable and unpredictable change in emotional state. Anyone experiencing the latter might revisit whether HRT is appropriate. I wish people would stop using the phrase for the former.

Mental fog? This can be a side effect of anti-androgens, particularly Finasteride. Aggression in a MtF on HRT is a HUGE red flag. It's expected to a degree in FtMs.

It took me a while to truly, fully stabilize on HRT. It's complicated ... There are some immediate, minor mood benefits (for most people). T coming down is a relief. But behavioral change takes time. Emotional and psychological integration takes time. Feeling natural while feeling like yourself - which is fundamentally how I experience HRT - takes time. Overcoming life-long fears and reactivity takes time. Emotional damage doesn't fade overnight ... if at all.

Getting back to the OP theme of discontinuing HRT, I stopped 2-3 times for a week to 2 weeks. Each was in a fit of pique where I wanted to just say F*** it all because things were too hard. What I've learned about stopping is this: A) Things get really, really bizarre after about a week! B) I learned to take advice to get over myself and just take the meds I require. My biggest issue continuing HRT these days is logistics - my inability to get to my doctor for an exam and blood work. No insurance (unemployed), she's 800 miles away, and the local doctors who prescribe HRT aren't taking new patients.

(4 years on HRT last August.)

[jennifer0918]

Thanks to all on the recent responses to this thread,I came to believe that my friend is dealing with some serious demons and her blaming it on the hermones was her escapegoat.A lot of you have posted some good facts and I appreciate your comments and toughts.

[ElvenPrincess]

I really appreciate all information you are sharing about hormones. I'm just about to start and your comments really help me to understand better what to expect.
Thanks. :)

[jennifer0918]

11 princess I like to ask question to inform myself and this forum is very helpful good luck on your journey

[JohnH]

What does not getting sick have anything to do with beard growth? It is science that taking HRT doesn't change your voice if you are MTF. Testosterone thickens the vocal cords and it is irreversible. This is why FTMs have their voice drop similar to puberty. Their vocal cords thicken and lower their voice. We have to train. You are either practicing at a higher pitch (voice is more than pitch incidentally) or you are sensing something that isn't there. If you are getting a better voice, good for you, it helps. But it isn't the HRT.

I'm living proof that M2F HRT does not raise the voice pitch. When I get up in the morning my speaking voice is like Sylvester Stallon and my singing voice is in the oktavist range just like a deep Russian basso. My trying to sound like a genetic woman is a lost cause. However I no longer have the masculine scent and I have become fairly busty (bra size 40DD), and I get ma'amed frequently even when I am dressed in drab.

[Pat]

On the topic of HRT side-effects / is-it-just-me? questions -- the charts all mention skin smoothing/softening and in hindsight I suppose I should have anticipated this, but am I the only one who finds this lovely, soft, smooth skin to be unnnervingly fragile? I've never been a graceful person, so I bump into things a lot. And when I use tools, I just go at it -- it's how I learned. But lately I take off my shirt at night and find my arms scratched or take off my jeans to find my shins showing signs of abuse and when I try to remember anything that might have happened out of the ordinary I just can't come up with an answer. I mean, I'm pretty sure the answer is I no longer have armor-plated male skin. But it was a surprise to me that this beautiful skin is not scuff-resistant. ;)

NB: I'm not talking about damage that would indicate a serious medical problem -- unmotivated bruising or the like. Just things that seem to indicate my skin is less resilient than it used to be.

[natasha]

Me too Jennie........I fix trucks now and fabricate things. Many times I have bruises and wonder what the heck I did to get that. :eek:

[jentay1367]

I suppose the whole tender skin thing is at least partly why women are gentler and little less bull in china shoppish. You learn what you need to to get through this life.