Do you see many other CD'ers out in the *true* wild?

[ellbee]

I'm not talking about around Halloween, or at LGBT clubs, or at CD meet-ups, or whatever. Of course we'll pop up a lot more around those times & locations.


I'm talking about the regular, everyday, "vanilla" times & locations...

At the grocery store on a normal Tuesday evening, at the mall on a Friday morning, over at your post office, at the airport, whatever.



To be honest, I really haven't. From what I recall, it was only one time, years ago, when I was a kid. One of those double-lane drive-up teller windows at the bank. My mom & I were in one lane. I look over at the other lane, and there's a guy (maybe in his 40's?) with long-ish natural hair, wearing some sort of bright floral women's top. I think there was something else about him/her, too, but I forget what. Make-up? Nails? Voice?

I couldn't tell you if they were partial CD'ing, a TS, or what. But it was definitely something along those lines. And that was literally the only instance I "saw one in the true wild." Ever.


Actually, scratch that. Just remembered: Make it twice. :D

I was at the mall, probably a teenager at the time. And I see a college-aged guy acting loud & obnoxious & goofy, strutting around & wearing something obviously-femmy... Want to say like a mini-skirt & neon bra or something. And a bit behind him were a group of guys around the same age who, from what I gathered, actually knew him, also acting loud & obnoxious in order to get people's attention. I got the impression that it was some sort of fraternity hazing thing going on, as there was a college really close by, and I seem to recall it was around early autumn.


Okay, twice. That's it.


Now, granted, I can be a bit of a workaholic, *and* a bit of a home-body introvert, which I suppose limits my exposure to this kind of stuff.

But still, should I be seeing more CD'ers out there? Because I really don't. And I've got a pretty keen eye, so I don't believe much, if anything, has gone undetected.


So, what's your experience been with this? Have you seen many of us out there in the *true* wild?

[dolovewell]

When out shopping, never

But on a daily basis when walking downtown I see at least 1 or 2 every day

[Alice Torn]

I would say a few times a year, i see one, possibly.

[Ressie]

Not often, but I just saw one today at Burlington coat factory. She probably had me pegged too since I never left the ladies dept. and walkd up to the cashier with two items! :)

[Alice_2014_B]

I saw one today at work at my temp. civilian job (grocery store).
He was not attempting to appear passable, just a guy in a matching skirt and top.

:)

[josrphine]

Hi Laurababa, Come to the hard rock casino in Tampa Fl . I am there almost ever Sat. all day . Come over an say Hi an i will take you to the buffet for lunch or dinner. Jo

[lingerieLiz]

I saw one today. As I walked out of a store in a strip mall. She was walking toward the store and turned around as I walked through the door. Was over dressed which is what caught my eye. Older person white hair, jacket in 80+ degrees. and a very short mini skirt. At first I thought it might be an 80 something yr old woman. She seemed tentative about going in anywhere as she walked back and forth. About the time she got to the store I came out of she would see someone else coming out and turn around. It occurred to me that she was trying to get back to the other side to other stores.

[Tracii G]

I see them occasionally but I'm sure there are some that look like GG's that I miss.
I don't go out looking for them either.

[Teresa]

Laura,
Before going to meet others I recall seeing two.

One was on a trip to SF and I was sitting on the side seats of the cable car at the bottom of Market Street and looked down to see a perfectly dressed coloured woman she was enjoying the moment, somehow the smile we gave each other said we we both on the same page.

The other was in a grocery shop in the Lake District ( UK ) she was waiting to check out , very nicely dressed but I could see her getting more and more nervous as she waited , I wanted to catch up with her to have a word but I was too far back in the line .

[AnnieMac]

hmmm, maybe about only 5-6 times did I ever see what I was sure were cd girls out and about. Perhaps I may have seen more, but if they passed so well I wouldn't have noticed.

[CarlaWestin]

When out shopping, never But on a daily basis when walking downtown I see at least 1 or 2 every day

And this is why I think about retiring in Portland.

So, I live in Las Vegas. Supposedly a CD beehive. I've seen a few CD folks on vacation. An occasional transgender person.
And, the ever present lesbian couples that the male/female roles are clearly defined. Lot's of talk about LGBT acceptance and such.
But, there really isn't any kind of saturation. I see more of us in LV here on this site.

[dolovewell]

I used to live in Las Vegas and would much rather live there than Portland. I hate it here. I hate Seattle too, so I just want out of the region in general. Hopefully I will be moving in the next 6 months or so

[Pat]

It's a funny thing... I rarely see TG people out and about, but the people around me see at least one every day. ;) Seriously, in the last couple of years I've seen a few of us out daywalking. In the decade before that I saw maybe two. It could be that we're starting to come out or it could be the well-known adage that you never realize how many yellow cars there are until you buy a yellow car. I hope it's the former.

[IleneD]

Denver/Boulder Colorado, DoLove. Colorado.
Good climate. Great scenery. Very open. Jobs.


I used to live in Las Vegas and would much rather live there than Portland. I hate it here. I hate Seattle too, so I just want out of the region in general. Hopefully I will be moving in the next 6 months or so

[NancySue]

Yes, I've seen a couple, one yesterday at (surprise) Walmart... very obvious. I believe I've seen many that I don't "read" because they blend in so well. This is my total objective. I study the local fashion climate to determine what to and not to wear. I do miss high heels and hose, but they do draw attention. I do not want attention. I sense others do, which is OK if that's their objective. My wonderful wife helps too. Sometimes, I wear too much eye makeup or a too bright red lipstick. I always appreciate and follow her advice. Being "read" would not be a good thing. For this reason, I mostly go out of town. Even though my wife is supportive, she worries about my being outed, i.e. flat tire, police, auto accident...things that might happen, no matter how careful I am. With all awareness, I need and continue to go out.

[barbara gordon]

I had three sightings this past week . One was at a dermatologist office where I saw an incredibly beautiful cd/t girl , next was at central park where I saw a cd/t girl riding a bike around the road loop - I was biking also but in drab . And next was at DSW where I was trying on shoes . I was dressed when I was at DSW , we made quick nodding eye contact but chose not to get into a big greeting or conversation , as we were both apparently more focused on the thousands of shoes !

I have been thinking about this a lot lately , looking at the whole experience from both sides - as drab or as dressed


I have been seeing more and more cd and tg girls out and about during daytime routines and errands . I can say its happening on an almost weekly basis . I live in nyc so the odds might be better than in a smaller town i guess.
often it happens when i am not dressed myself , but it has happened while I am in cd dress also. . There is always the question of wether or not approach her , I think its not really appropriate in most cases to make a comment about it unless i am dressed also. I have been thinking of making a business card or something for when i am in drab ,that says something like "I am like you too", or "i am a crossdresser too" or something to that effect . with my girl email added .... just thinking about what the best way to do this can be . I like to interact with people when I am dressed , but i don't think all cd girls feel that way when they are out daywalking.

[DutchCarla]

Only once at one of those Swedish furniture things. She behaved like a real bitch...
Might say more about me though: simply not aware enough about my surroundings. I'm an extrovert tech - meaning I will look at the point of YOUR shoes.

[Lily Catherine]

Exactly once in the "vanilla world", in broad daylight. Passable, although I'm not sure whether CD/TS. Not that that should be of concern.

[Rachel Morley]

In and around "vanilla" locations where I live, hardly ever. I think I've seen maybe half a dozen in the last 10 years mostly at the mall.

[sara66]

I have only had one sighting were I was sure. She was with her wife walking together, they moved like a couple, if you know what I mean. She look me n the eyes with kind of a surprised look. I just smiled and they moved off. There have been other were I was not sure. This is a testament on how well some of us can blend. With the Thousands of us out there we should see move of us out and about.

Sara

[Tracy Irving]

I read this thread last night. Knowing I was going to spend the day shopping with my wife, I decided to keep a watchful eye for anything suspicious. We went to a gas station, outlet mall, some big box stores and ate lunch at a sit down chain restaurant. The results of my observations are as follows: exactly zero noticeable cross dressers. I might need better cheater glasses.

[Nikki A.]

I've seen a few Cds around, but I wonder how many I may have missed because they didn't stand out or I wasn't paying attention. There are some of us that look so passable, that you would never guess. I know one girl who lost a Halloween Contest because they didn't believe she was not a girl (yes she looked that good).

[Dana44]

I have seen a few at Walmart. One was a couple and she looked happy with him. And a few others, some non-binary type also.

[Lorileah]

Define "CD". Do I see trans people? I dunno, never looked for them. Nunnamybusiness. Do they wear name tags? Of course I dunno what is in anyone's mind so... Have I seen transpeople? On occasion...but then again, I'm not sure, they may have been people who dressed a bit different than those around them, or people who for some unknown reason looked more masculine or feminine than the average person. Do you go hunting transpeople? It's sorta like deer, you don't see many until they run in front of your car and you have to swerve. How many 5'5" people did you see today? And when you say "CD" do you exclude the TSs like me who are out daily? Do you need 6" heels?

[ellbee]

Sorry, but I'm one of those hyper-observant freaks. I always instinctively absorb *all* my surroundings (people, places, things, sounds, actions, conversations, vibes, whatever), no matter where I am or what I'm doing.

So, no, I don't intentionally go "hunting." I was born this way. ;)


I feel my OP made it pretty clear that I wasn't sure what was going on with the person at the bank. And the guy at the mall? Do legit trans-people typically act like that in such a particular situation? Come on, LOL.


Yes, my thread was started because of all these *CD'ers* here who go out & about, wherever & for whatever reason, into the vanilla world, who then subsequently share their stories & sometimes even provide photographic "proof."

Naturally, the question arises: How often do others see this?

That's all. :)

[Micki_Finn]

See men in women's clothing around this neck of the woods, but I don't know that I'd classify all of them as trans/CD. A number have appeared to be of questionable sanity/lucidity. Do we count the guy on the train in a dress yelling about the Nazi conspiracy and hitting himself in the head?

[Allison2006]

The first one I can remember seeing was probably better than 17 years ago. Don't think I've ever seen one locally since then. Last couple of times I've been to Vegas I've seen quite a few though, and not just on Halloween.

[Teresa]

Just to take up Lorileah's point, no we don't know where they are on the spectrum, as she says it's none of our business.

At my social group we don't know where others are on that spectrum and we don't ask , if they choose to talk about it is up to them, this is why we all call ourselves by femme names , we must respect the TSs among us , the great thing is we all get along fine, there's no demarcation as sadly happens on the forum from time to time.

[IleneD]

The few times I've been "out in The World", I'm pretty certain The World can spot me, even on my best day.
I'm not too good at spotting others in the wild. I know of one F to M tran who works the local grocery, but nothing M2F TG/CD that I can recall. I was air traveling recently and my normal habit is people watching (amateur anthropology - love it), and I was observing closely. I didn't spot a one, but I saw lots of great femme clothing I'd like to find.

[ReineD]

I live in the midwest. I travel regularly to the East Coast and to Montreal, and I visited the West Coast - Seattle and Vancouver - last year. We also travel internationally (in the last five years, we've been to Europe a few times, Turkey, Japan, and Morocco), which also involves layovers at a variety of major hubs throughout this country.

I can count on one hand the number of CDers I've seen here and abroad in the last 5 years, outside of TG friendly places or outside of specifically meeting a community member in the mainstream somewhere. And it's not because I scurry along too busy to notice others. I'm a people watcher.

The truth is, there is a small percentage of the population that does this, and an even smaller percentage who are out there in public and crowded spaces. We have a friend locally who has transitioned and she is of course out everywhere. But, she doesn't look male and so no one would read her (she is 5'6). Other than our friend and my SO, I've seen only two other TGs: one was at the post-office (I believe she had transitioned) about 7-8 years ago. My son asked me if she was a man. The other was a CDer at a department store, shopping with her wife, about 5 years ago. When I glanced up, she caught my eye and scurried behind a display. We used to have a very well attended LGBT club in town that is now closed but that had fabulous drag shows every weekend. We used to go there A LOT, and during all our times there, I have never seen another CDer. There were always 3 or 4 drag-queens though, the friends of the entertainers. You could just tell they were drag queens and not CDers, from their exaggerated makeup, hair, etc. But people like my SO? No. Not once.

[Teresa]

Reine,
Maybe some of us are getting very good at it ! I might say this in jest but there could be more than a grain of truth in it.
The online tutorials on makeup for both genders must have made a difference in our presentation. Some can't get over the hurdle of a man in a dress, while others have to be viewed fairly close up. I only noticed the two in my reply because both were dressed too well for their surroundings, a woman overdressed also stands out as you well know .

[Sallee]

I have seen trans people or maybe bigendered or non binary is a better word. But a CD I mean a man or woman trying to pass as the other very seldom. BY CD I mean some one like me who goes out dressed as a woman with the intent of passing as that. I have been read a few times that I know of heck maybe all the time but no one seems to notice. So I am sure there are others out there that I don't notice because I am busy with my stuff and they look pretty good so I am not really sure of their birth gender.

[Karen RHT]

I'm not one to pay much attention to those around me while I'm out in public, but I do notice anomalies. Well dressed women in particular. :) During my working career, I travelled extensively. Naturally, I did pay more attention when in unfamiliar surroundings. I'm retired now, approaching 70 years of age. Looking back, I could probably count on one hand the number of times I believed I saw someone cross dressed in public.


Karen

[Maria 60]

We were just talking about this yesterday at a friends house, it was less intense then last week when I lost it on my friends wife. But last night it was more about how everyone had a crossdresser viewing story. Most of them were at shopping malls. I haven't seen one for about a year now and that was also at a mall.

[Ressie]

I've spotted 4 or 5 CDs in the last year and they were all out shopping, all within 50 miles of my home. Two were shopping for groceries, the rest for clothes.

20-25 years ago, I only spotted one out shopping. And I used to go to malls a lot back then!

[Allison Chaynes]

I work at a VF store, and while I don't know if I have actually seen anyone presenting as another gender, we very often (at least once every other day) have either males shopping for women's clothing or couples buying the same items in very different sizes. I use the employee discount to shop for myself, but everyone here assumes I'm buying for my wife or mother. The one associate I was out to left a few months ago.

I only know of one occasion where a male owned it and told my co-worker that he was looking for a certain panty for himself. That's about the closest I can tell you I have come to seeing a fellow CD/TV at random in real life outside of Halloween.

[Valery L]

I think I have seen many of them. However, I do not notice them because they are incredibly good in their presentations so I mistake them for GGs.

[ReineD]

Reine,
Maybe some of us are getting very good at it ! I might say this in jest but there could be more than a grain of truth in it.

Certainly, if someone is on a full dose of hormones and androgen-blockers, keeps the weight down, has grown out the hair and doesn't have male-pattern hair loss, has had electrolysis, in short, has done everything that transitioners do like my local friend, then I agree. My friend does not read as a male but then she has also had some FFS.

But, this is extremely rare among CDers who have not taken all the rigorous steps that transitioners take.

[ellbee]

The truth is, there is a small percentage of the population that does this, and an even smaller percentage who are out there in public and crowded spaces.

I believe this is the fundamental reason why many of us *don't* see others out there very much. (Of course, I'm sure there are pockets of geographic exceptions... And I sort of hate "playing that card," but it is hard to deny that reality.)


It seems like some tend to over-estimate the percentages of those who CD, just as others can sometimes over-estimate the numbers of other tiny groups.

And on a forum like this, where one might expect someone to be that much more apt to go out in public -- yet according to one recent sampling, maybe a bit more than half actually do go out? You just took that tiny number & practically halved it. Not to mention that some of those might simply only do the "non-vanilla" thing (e.g., Halloween, LGBT clubs, CD meet-ups, etc.).


A minuscule number, indeed.

[ReineD]

And on a forum like this, where one might expect someone to be that much more apt to go out in public -- yet according to one recent sampling, maybe a bit more than half actually do go out? You just took that tiny number & practically halved it. Not to mention that some of those might simply only do the "non-vanilla" thing (e.g., Halloween, LGBT clubs, CD meet-ups, etc.).


Also, there is a possibility that some say they go out when they don't. There's no way to check and some members do use this forum as a toned down form of SecondLife (the virtual world game).

[Jenniferathome]

...I travel regularly ...I can count on one hand the number of CDers I've seen here and abroad in the last 5 years, ...

My experience as well and I'll wager I travel a lot more. We are rare in the wild, vanilla, locations. In my little town of Boise, I have seen three cross dressers out in the mainstream (not including myself). I have seen NONE in California! And none in any of the 15 countries I visited this and last year. This is just an exercise in simple statistical probability. None of us should see many cross dressers.


...The online tutorials on makeup for both genders must have made a difference in our presentation. ...

Teresa, it's not just about "presentation." Clothing, and accessories can be perfect, but that won't hide an adam's apple, or large hands, square jaw, etc. So, I think it's impossible that I simply didn't notice as I am a people watcher just like Reine. We've developed skills through eons of evolution to recognize the difference between men and women. We all can do this in a fraction of a second. If it were really just presentation, wouldn't every trans person simply blend in?


I think I have seen many of them. However, I do not notice them ...

Huh? You can't do both. This defies the immutable laws of the physical universe.

[dolovewell]

Having worked at a Victoria's Secret in college, obviously I saw my share of crossdressers. And this was a VS store in Texas, not San Francisco or another place one might imagine crossdressers are more common.

I would see about 3 per week on average. One time a group of 3 crossdressers came in together.

Regardless I do not think the "I never see crossdressers because they do such a good job I don't notice!" angle is a valid one, for the reasons Jennifer and Reine have stated.

[Becky Blue]

Here in Australia.. quite often, probably once every 2 or 3 weeks and I am not the most observant person

[Robin777]

Years ago I was at a used clothing store in Toledo, Ohio and a group of 3 or 4 came in. I knew they were CDer's as it was a saturday night and they were very overdressed to be in a used clothing store. My wife gave them a strange look as she could tell by the way they were acting. They were very easy to spot. We just kept shopping and If I remember correctly I found a dress. The other time was a couple of years ago and she was very elegantly dressed and was shopping at Kohls. She blended in very well. I might have seen others over the years, but I didn't notice.

[SarahSerene]

I think I saw one recently at an airport (I was in drab, and this is within the last month or so). I was going down the escalator and she was going up. What caught my attention was an usually short skirt for the age she was presenting, and wearing nude nylons with open toe'd shoes (gasp!) Not being critical here though - where what you want! But something about her presentation choices did not seem to blend, and perhaps I had a little more eye for it than the average person.

She made eye contact with me - maybe looking at people to see if she had been read? No one around her seemed to notice.

[Loveday]

Yes, but only two.
1. A CD going to Dollar Tree that it took me a few minutes to figure out, something wasn't just right.
2. A TG person in Kroger taking their bottles back. She is a friend of a friend on FB that I had seen pictures of.
Any others have completely fooled me.

[Rachael Leigh]

I can count on one hand those I've seen or at least thought were, and as others have said for many and yes even those of
us who dress if your looking for them maybe you see more but honestly when your out in boy or girl mode are you looking, or are you like most your out doing your own thing and don't pay attention. Which for most of us who don't pass means we probably dont get noticed much either so maybe you have and just didn't register because of such a brief encounter

[Fiona123]

Only two that I can recall. One elderly gal at the co-op and one young woman working the checkout desk at the library.🌺

[Krisi]

The only crossdresser I've seen in public was my own reflection in a store window. That tells me that either there are very few crossdressers in public in my part of the country or that they are all passing and I don't notice them.

I did see a transsexual at the beauty school once. She was a student. I say she was a transsexual because she had actual breasts (implants, I presume) and that's a little much for most of us crossdressers.

[Jenniferathome]

I think I saw one recently ....

She made eye contact with me - maybe looking at people to see if she had been read? No one around her seemed to notice.

Sarah, I would suggest that it is more a case of "no one around her seemed to care.​" And this is a huge difference. So many cross dressers think that because they are not explicitly called out somehow, they have gone "unnoticed" that they have passed as a genetic woman when in fact, most people do notice but just don't care.

[ellbee]

I totally agree that wording/phrasing is important. :)


And I'll take it even one step further...

Many people notice; some of those don't care; and some of those actually *do* care, but weighed the risks & rewards and decided not to directly respond to the CD'er due to potential various consequences directly affecting themselves, in doing so.

(Furthermore, yes, sometimes people actually do respond, and in a variety of ways, whether positive or negative -- consequences be damned.)

[SarahSerene]

Sarah, I would suggest that it is more a case of "no one around her seemed to care.​" And this is a huge difference. So many cross dressers think that because they are not explicitly called out somehow, they have gone "unnoticed" that they have passed as a genetic woman when in fact, most people do notice but just don't care.

Great point, and I fully accept that correction! :)

[Mickitv]

Great question. I don't think I really look for a CD but I am sure that I have seen them and have on occasion, if the circumstances are right, spoken to them.

[Rachael Leigh]

While out an about today I did notice someone I passed in Walmart gave me a long look and I'm sure I was read but as is usually the case nothing said

[Julie 29]

No I can't say I have ever seen a CD'er out in the general public before. I go out in the general public en femme, when I get the chance to. I don't get it. seeing that the Chicagoland area is very accepting of Transgender Community.

[emilyanne]

I once saw a gal at my local grocery store. She looked good. I am very observant but that was the only time.

[Valery L]

Perhaps most of the people we see in the streets are crossdressing, but they are so good in their presentation that almost nobody notices that they are crossdressers. In that case, we are like a subset of crossdressers that is not good enough for this D:


Huh? You can't do both. This defies the immutable laws of the physical universe.

I should say, I think I have seen many of them. However I did not notice they were crossdressers, since they are incredibly talented.

[ReineD]

Valery, you're young. :)

And I agree, I think it is easier for younger males to pass, although I think that only the super good-looking males can do this ... you know, the guys who have the classic baby-face like Justin Beiber's face. I have sons about your age and even though they don't crossdress (believe me I would have noticed if they had when they were teenagers), you could put my youngest son in a wig and makeup and there's no way that people would know he was a male (except for his height). He really is that gorgeous. I know, I'm his mom and biased, but he really is.

Anyway, the average age of members in this forum is middle-aged. By that time, the male body has matured to the extent that it's really hard to not look like a male, despite the wigs, makeup, breast forms, pads, etc. This is simply the reality.

[ellbee]

The good thing about having a baby-face as an adult is that there's a good chance of keeping that throughout your entire life, at least in some form or another.
My father's father had one his whole life, even when he was in his mid-80's. :confused3:


Also, the greater the number of older family members who also have baby-faces, the better your odds of following in their footsteps. My mom, her siblings, and their mom all have/had one even much later in life. And fortunately for me, I definitely take more after that side of the family. :battingeyelashes:


But yeah, everything still gets tougher as you age. If I had kept my weight steady/gradual, instead of yo-yo'ing a few times, which I believe had a bit of a negative impact of male aging, I think I would have been that much better off in terms of staying "pretty," longer. But, can't change the past! Consistently taking care of one's self as much as possible in all kinds of ways definitely helps. Let all that be some advice for those here under 40. ;)

Oh, and it's certainly never too late, either.


Anyway, there's definitely some young & pretty 20-something CD/trans out there. Easier for them, of course. But they're also making them generally taller these days (then again, the same applies to the GG's, too).

But I still think I could pick most of them out of a crowd. Only once was I ever "fooled" (confirmed, anyway) -- and probably would have stayed that way had my friend who knew her not told me. She looked *good*! :o

[irene9999]

I see CDs regularly during the daytime in vanilla places but the reason I know they're CD is because there's something off and don't present all that well, some use a coloured wig for instance or might be very large so on a closer look they do seem to be CDs. There's probably lots of passable CD or trans girls that I see out everyday that don't even register in my mind as being anything other than female though.

[Jenniferathome]

...but I'm sure there are some that look like GG's that I miss...


... Perhaps I may have seen more, but if they passed so well I wouldn't have noticed.


...I believe I've seen many that I don't "read" because they blend in so well. ....


...There have been other were I was not sure. This is a testament on how well some of us can blend...


... but I wonder how many I may have missed ... There are some of us that look so passable, that you would never guess...


...So I am sure there are others out there that I don't notice because I am busy with my stuff and they look pretty good so I am not really sure of their birth gender.


... but they are so good in their presentation that almost nobody notices that they are crossdressers. ...


... There's probably lots of passable CD or trans girls that I see out everyday ....

I am really stunned by and quite curious about this seemingly, widely held notion.

Why would anyone assume there are so many "passing" cross dressers? The evidence provided here is, "because I don't notice them." This is the equivalent of saying that there are Bigfoot everywhere in the forest but we just don't see them. This is the classic, unsupported reply. Uh, yeah, that's one idea. But of course the rational answer in both cases is that we do not see them because they are not there.

Is it that as a cross dresser you want this to be true? That the Holy Grail does exist? Does it change your world if there is no Grail? So odd to me.

[ellbee]

Well, when you put it that way... :laughing: :clap:


Not going to speak for those you quoted, since that's not really my view, anyway. But I'm also not discounting the very real possibility that some can, at the very least, "blend" sometimes -- meaning, they don't personally catch my attention at a certain time in a certain environment (while others might read them just moments later). I'm pretty darn observant, but even with that I realize I can't or don't always get a good look at every single person among a crowd. Or, perhaps it's not fully-lit. Or, maybe I'm just in a big rush or I'm preoccupied with something, and only catch a split-second glimpse from the corner of my eye. Or whatever.

So, do I miss them sometimes? Perhaps. Who knows. Obviously they're not easily & instantly catching my attention in those situations, anyway.


But this definition of "blending" can be quite different than actually "passing."


As mentioned above, the only one in the real-world who has *passed* with me, as far as I'm concerned? I didn't speak to her, which may or may not have tipped me off, but I was checking her out pretty hard & for quite a while, LOL. Never once did I suspect it was actually a CD'er -- I honestly thought it was a hot GG. She did a great job; she looked awesome. And for the record, it was at a fairly-lit hetero club on Halloween, and she was sitting at the bar talking to some guy, so I wasn't really expecting that there, anyway. And no, I didn't have my beer-goggles on. Finally, I didn't believe my friend at first when he told me... but I knew him well enough to know he wasn't BS'ing after I kept pressing.

I bet she "fooled" a lot of guys that night. And probably lots of other nights, too.

[irene9999]

I am really stunned by and quite curious about this seemingly, widely held notion.

Why would anyone assume there are so many "passing" cross dressers? The evidence provided here is, "because I don't notice them." This is the equivalent of saying that there are Bigfoot everywhere in the forest but we just don't see them. This is the classic, unsupported reply. Uh, yeah, that's one idea. But of course the rational answer in both cases is that we do not see them because they are not there.

Is it that as a cross dresser you want this to be true? That the Holy Grail does exist? Does it change your world if there is no Grail? So odd to me.

I forgot to add that I have seen CDs/Trans girls around here who I assumed were genetic females but once I heard them speak I could tell they were trans or CD, so at least visually they were passable. I also see many women who might be CD/trans but there was not enough to say definitively that they were so who knows. I guess what I'm saying is there could be CDs so convincing that you wouldn't even notice

[Rhonda Jean]

Jennifer,

The operative phrase in your statement might be "so many". Certainly there are some members of this board who I think would pass unquestionably. Even more who would pass circumstantially. I've personally seen two pre-op TS who, to me, passed unquestionably, one teenage (crossdressed) boy, and one girl at a local Halloween costume contest (I don't know how she self-identified) who were completely undetectable to me. That's out of a VERY small sample size. Maybe someone else would have known, but I don't see how it'd be possible. If someone hadn't told me, I would have never guessed. I have no problem believing that passable crossdressers exist in numbers greater than you expect. From what I've heard, on Bourbon Street in New Orleans there are a lot of them. In fact, that reminds me of another one at a drag show on Bourbon Street.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

IMHO there are several CD's on this site who would "pass" to me anyway, at first glance at least from a distance, because they look/dress like nicely dressed middle aged women. Now in closer interaction they might not...but someone just walking by might not notice them...even the folks here who know the "Tells".

That said....I've seen more non-binary folks than CD's...and I think that's because the vast majority of CD's have no desire to go out amongst the Muggles...I mean No-Maj... the people who are NOT-trans.

Anecdote. I was once a member of a support group up near Chicago....oh okay it was Chi Chapter when it was still a Tri-Ess group....CGS had their meetings on TUESDAY at that time, or I'd have joined THEM.

Anyway, I got a rep for...well....being levelheaded and mostly self accepting (I still have issues but compared to the average CD back then....it was nothing) I was talking with another member who was suggesting I run for a leadership spot and was talking about the trials and travails of running a CD support group. Basically Herding cats.

Now the meeting place was near a large shopping emporium....oh okay the meeting place is the Double Tree in Oak Brook (don't worry Chi Chapter openly publicizes the location...NOW....they didn't back when I was a member....I think that was one of the changes that caused the rift between Chi and Tri-Ess national), right across the road from Oak Brook Centre, which has a MAC, Sephora, Lord & Taylor, etc etc. Now this member was saying that she'd been trying to encourage members to engage more in public because the world outside the group wasn't all that scary....but nobody was interested.

I said I would be interested, but she said to me: "But Veronica, you don't NEED outings like this, you go out on your own shopping for girl stuff en femme or en boy mode whenever you want to. I've SEEN those little MAC and Sephora bags sticking out of the side pocket of your purse....don't tell me you haven't been over there on your own before meetings" And of course, I had. And then she talked about the various demographics basically stating something like:

"Fetish/few item CD's outnumber the rest, in general they don't go out and have no desire to.
then there's the everything CD's...but plenty have no desire to go out at all.
Then there's the subset of THAT who do go out, but only to GLBT clubs/support groups.
Then there's the subset of That group who go wherever they want...which are a small group, but THEY are the ones that run the support groups and take the most pictures and do most of the talking on the websites.
And about a 1/3rd of THEM are really TS's that haven't figured it out yet or are in the process of figuring it out like you Veronica, so they aren't really crossdressers."

Then she made the common joke that becoming an officer of a support group for crossdressers was a signifier of an eventual transition...and then admitted that she wanted to transition but had made a commitment to her wife as a male and felt obligated to continue that commitment even if she'd rather be female.

And THAT is why you won't see many CD's in public and if you DO see one, there's a goodly chance that the CD in question might not be as strongly male identified as most CD's here.

Veronica