Do women stare more than men?

[Jordan-NH]

So I went out dressed tonight, I don't think I'm a super model but I'm pretty sure I'm reasonably passable. Strolling both downtown and the mall I caught a LOT of women checking me out. And not just quick glances, but almost stares. The I caught would just give the quick glance and look away. Has anyone experienced this before? I've never looked for it before, do the women check out other women all the time or are they just much better at spotting a man in sheep's clothing??

[ellbee]

IMO, GG's are a heck of a lot better at reading us than guys are.

Honestly, I don't believe I've ever passed with a GG before, at least in person (but have in photos) -- yet *have* passed (either confirmed or highly suspected) with some guys in certain settings.


I'm probably guessing the GG's in your case were simply curious and/or trying to figure you out (CD? TS? :strugglin )

Then again, I wasn't there, and wasn't in their heads, LOL.


I would have just caught their stare, smiled & said hi! :)

[suzanne]

Does it matter? We have to accept that we are uncommon, so that person looking at you for an extra second round two may be seeing a CD for the first time. What really matters is their reactions after the look. If they continue their own business uninterrupted, it says our presentation is "No big deal" to them. That's what we want, isn't it?

I feel like my being dressed in public serves two purposes. First, I love my femininity and the feeling of freedom I get just being myself out of the house. Second, I try to dress and act as though I am an ambassador for all my sisters in the crossdresssing community, hopefully showing the muggles we are worthy of respect, not to be reviled or ridiculed or persecuted. So, there may be some looks and even stares, but what what they see is a man who knows how to put an outfit together and is proud of how he looks in a dress, however unusual he may be.

[dolovewell]

I think GGs are better at reading us, but in my experience, men are more likely to stare. I think that's why women don't stare, because they "figure it out" quicker, plus they are more understanding. Men always seem to be confused, hence why they stare.

I know my past 2 trips to the grocery store dressed up, I have been stared at by men to the point where it makes me a bit uncomfortable and just want to burst out "Take a picture, it will last longer". Last week there were 2 guys in the store who would stare at me every chance they got. One was with his wife and the other one was by himself. The store wasn't busy so it seemed like every aisle I went down, so they would be in the aisle too. I wound up behind one of them at a checkout lane and of course he just stared at me multiple times.

Today there was just one guy who stared at me. He stared at me for a few seconds, then went on his way down an aisle. Then he peaked his head back out of the aisle back toward me to get a 2nd look. I made eye contact with him and caught him looking.

I don't know but I just don't understand getting stared at. What are you trying to achieve? You figured out something is off, good for you. No need to keep staring and treat me like a sideshow. No manners or class at all.

It wasn't all bad today though. As I was walking into a Kohl's there were 2 teenage girls to my left who both looked at me and gave me a smile. I am sure they figured it out, but the smile assured me that they had a positive reaction.

For the most part, I have come to embrace stares, as long as you just do it once and its not a long one. What I hate are the people who stare at you multiple times, or gaze at you for way too long.

[Jenniferathome]

My experience has been that women absolutely notice where men tend to not but when a guy does notice, he is
more likely to stare whereas women look using peripheral vision. If a woman is really looking at me she tends to smile and make a comment about my clothes or hair, etc.

[jaimesilvertv]

I agree with Jennifer. And I think most men stare at length once they figure what is going on.

[dolovewell]

Does it matter? We have to accept that we are uncommon, so that person looking at you for an extra second round two may be seeing a CD for the first time. What really matters is their reactions after the look. If they continue their own business uninterrupted, it says our presentation is "No big deal" to them. That's what we want, isn't it?

It is what I want, personally. I don't mind being stared at - but there comes a point where you have done enough staring. Women for the most part don't over-stare. Men do.


My experience has been that women absolutely notice where men tend to not but when a guy does notice, he is
more likely to stare whereas women look using peripheral vision. If a woman is really looking at me she tends to smile and make a comment about my clothes or hair, etc.


I agree with Jennifer. And I think most men stare at length once they figure what is going on.

Both of these mirror my experiences. Women will figure it out quickly - but they will be discreet if they want another look.

Men... they will stare at you like you are the first and only crossdresser they have ever seen and will ever see.

[ellbee]

Today there was just one guy who stared at me. He stared at me for a few seconds, then went on his way down an aisle. Then he peaked his head back out of the aisle back toward me to get a 2nd look.

Sorry to laugh at your unfortunate experience, but... :roflmao:

Gotta admit, that's probably one for your 2016 CD Highlight Reel! :D


Anyway, it's been my experience that men can have all kinds of different stares when it comes to this, with quite a wide range. Sometimes you can tell which type, sometimes you can reasonably assume, and other times you've got no clue what's going on.

Obviously we know guys are visual creatures. And if you make a halfway-decent-looking chick, yet they still know at least something is a bit "off"? Yeah, good chance you're going to confuse the heck out of them, in a number of ways, perhaps even at a deep fundamental level that can shake them to the core. Basically, they expect to see certain things on a GG, which they like. But now that they're seeing those same things on someone who looks to be a non-GG, yet it's still, dare I say, attractive to them??

Yeah, messes with their head just a wee bit. :laughing:

And no, I'm not saying it's intentional on our part, or it's malicious or anything. It just can be an odd & interesting by-product of all this.


Eventually I kinda-sorta got used to all the different stares from guys, for the most part, and even began to recognize & classify them accordingly. Part of me still didn't care for it, at some level. At the same time, it can be a sort of validation, too.



And there was really only one instance where it was just freaky as all heck. I was sitting at a table at a hetero club with a mixed crowd of friends, apparently looking pretty good, according to others, since I can be really critical of my own self. Some guy sitting at the bar the whole time, seemed to be by himself, kept looking at me & looking at me & looking at me, over & over again, with this lustful look on his face & in his eyes. I'm thinking, "Come on, man. Really? Just stop, already." Just the way he was doing it, it's almost as if I could read his mind knowing exactly what he wanted to do, but couldn't work up enough courage, so instead just pictured it in his head, creating his own fantasy, and only working himself up even more. And I'm not so sure he realized I was a guy, either, no joke. Even mentioned it to one of my good gay male friends, figuring he'd understand, and he just brushed it off like, "Ah, whatever, you look good tonight! Of course you're going to get some attention! :) " That's your solution to this? Really?? Um, thanks for your empathy? LOL

Yeah, other instances were a bit weird or creepy or made me uncomfortable. But I was literally scared to death with this one. And I don't scare easily. To make matters worse, he was a pretty tough-looking dude, too.

Anyway, I started to consciously make it a point to sit next to the biggest & manliest of my male friends there that night, and made sure I talked to him a lot more the rest of our time there -- hoping the guy sitting at the bar would notice, figure my friend & I were an item, and just finally cut the crap. He eventually did -- for a while. Then started right back up again a little later on. Kind of ruined what should have been an otherwise fun night for me.


Honestly? Part of me wanted to sneak up behind him when he wasn't looking, put my mouth up to his ear, and say in my deepest manliest voice, "You like what you see, buddy?"

Then maybe give his butt a nice squeeze. :devil:


But decided I didn't want to end up in the hospital that night. :straightface:

[Scarlett398]

When I am dressed as a girl, there is no way you can tell I'm a guy. If I could figure out how to post photos on this site, you would understand..

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Wow, I can't believe they posted one of my replies on this site. I have tried quite a few before and they never got posted.

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Jennifer, you do look really sharp. You're like me in the way we dress and put on our makeup, you can't tell there's a guy in those pretty clothes and makeup!

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Hey girl, Khol's has some of the best tops and skater skirts - especially for the look and price. They always have great discounts and 20 and 30% additional mailings that they send you as well. I feel really comfortable in that store buying my girl stuff. They cashiers are always really nice. I'm always dressed as a guy when I'm in there buying my skirts and tops and the cashiers never give my any kind of uncomfortable looks. I really like the junior's department!

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I wish I could be dressed out in public more than twice a year but that's only the amount of time my wife is out of town on business. She still had no idea I am a cross dresser.

[Teresa]

Jordan,
They really do check you out, they may not be thinking if you're a CDer as much as checking your outfit out , also in my case they appear to have a fixation about legs, that's if you're showing them. I've had so many comments about my legs and how much the wish they had them even my daughter made that comment a couple of days ago.

[CherylFlint]

I’ll say this: women, when they figure-out you’re a guy in a dress, can really go bananas and make a scene: the ULTIMATE YUPPIE.
Beware of them and don’t waste your time engaging them in a conversation, just walk away quickly and get in your car and leave.

[ellbee]

Cheryl,

I probably don't have a ton of experience that demographic, and maybe I've just been lucky, but I've never had an issue with them (or should I say, them with me). Though I have heard they exist, and can make quite a stink about this sometimes. Women's restrooms can be a sore spot for them, for example, from what I recall.


I dunno, maybe it's just me, but I've found GG's, overall, to be pretty awesome with all this with me -- or at the very least, neutral about it. There's only been one acquaintance who, although had never seen me all dolled-up, had found out about it through the grapevine, and she was not very cool with it. Sort of surprising, really, because I had always thought of her as pretty open-minded & free-spirited, *and* she was on the younger side. We still got along afterwards, but things had definitely shifted because of it. Haven't talked in ages, though... Just a typical drifting away. No biggie, ha!



Anyway, I'm wondering if the OP simply perceived the looks from GG's to be longer than they actually were, like time slowed down for her as that happened, and felt like it was going on forever when it really didn't.

Would be interested in hearing more details about these GG stares. :)

[Helen 2]

:heehee:

When GGs stare are me, I'm thinking that they are checking me out with three things on their mind:
- how does that guy manage to look so well put together as a female?
- how can a guy get to be so good at walking on 4" heels?
- How can it be fair that he has better legs than I do?

Okay, seriously now: yes, GGs will 'clock' me faster than guys, but I usually sense a stronger reaction from the (fewer) men that read me than the GGs who (more frequently) read me.

[Allisa]

In my experiences women spot me right off and know but I usually get a friendly smile and we go on our way unless we are looking at the same type of item and shoulder to shoulder, we generally have some type of interaction. I tend to dress a bit above casual because I go from one venue to another and want to present nicely so many times my heels will click on the floor and automatically turn heads, mostly women, so glances and stares are just part of my outings and I keep on going about my day being my self. Ohh yeah I get men stares also but quick 1 or 2 seconds, I know I disgust and confuse them, but that's their problem. Lets face it women are more stylish and looking at other women to see how they are dressed seems to be a female thing, and I'm sure there are other motives to why they look. All in all stares are a part of CDing and like it or not we must accept it and move on.

[Teresa]

Helen 2,
You may joke about those comments but they do happen and I have had them all said to me more than once.

GGs have told me I'm better than them putting a look together, they get slightly envious that we can actually wear heels that high and walk in them and the numbers of GGs who would give anything for my legs. Women do appear to have a fixation about legs, they may not comment on many things to each other but they do notice good legs.

The last comment I received was from a lovely SA who said those legs and knees do not belong to a 65 year old ! I just apologised and said I couldn't hand them back !

[dolovewell]

When I am dressed as a girl, there is no way you can tell I'm a guy. If I could figure out how to post photos on this site, you would understand..

I would be really careful with this mindset. Chances are, people do notice. It's really hard for a crossdresser not on horomones and without any operations like FFS to be able to pass in the way you say "no way to tell I'm a guy". I am not doubting you, all I am saying is not to view it in absolute terms.


Hey girl, Khol's has some of the best tops and skater skirts - especially for the look and price. They always have great discounts and 20 and 30% additional mailings that they send you as well. I feel really comfortable in that store buying my girl stuff. They cashiers are always really nice. I'm always dressed as a guy when I'm in there buying my skirts and tops and the cashiers never give my any kind of uncomfortable looks. I really like the junior's department!

Yeah I am signed up for their promotions, I use the coupons all the time. Not so much into skirts as the rest of the people on this site, I am more of a jeans girl, but I will buy a skirt when the weather gets warmer. Kohl's is an easy place to shop dressed up because its spread out. And why the hell would you want to shop in the juniors department? That makes no sense to me, and honestly sounds a bit creepy.

[Jenniferathome]

When I am dressed as a girl, there is no way you can tell I'm a guy. If I could figure out how to post photos on this site, you would understand...

Scarlett, I think passing as a woman as you suggest is an impossibility. Fortunately, the process for uploading an image is remarkably easy:
1) Post a New Thread
2) Click on the paperclip icon
3) Choose your pictures (files). Make sure the picture size is under 200KB and oriented in portrait mode.
4) Click "upload"
5) Click "close this window"
6) Click the arrow next to the paperclip and place picture(s) in post



...Jennifer, ... you can't tell there's a guy in those pretty clothes and makeup!....

I assure you, they can. I do not pass as a genetic woman



... the ULTIMATE YUPPIE.
Beware of them and don’t waste your time engaging them in a conversation, just walk away quickly and get in your car and leave.

Ultimate Yuppie? What does this mean?

I have never experienced an unpleasant interaction with men but even more so, women. Women always seem to be more interested in learning about me.

[Stephanie47]

Not being a woman my thoughts are only conjecture. I observe a lot of guys staring at very attractive women. That's the operative words...very attractive. If the woman is just another woman in the crowd it seems the woman goes unnoticed. Of course there are men that are vulgar and will make comments whether or not the person is a natural born woman, transwoman or a cross dresser, although I don't know how a man would tell the difference between a transwoman or a cross dresser.

Perhaps a woman is more observant because they are more vulnerable or at risk as an object of harassment or bad behavior. It's difficult for me to assess whether you're passable because I know you're a male. I suspect most women who look at you will correctly identify your gender. Why they would take a prolong look or stare? Maybe the GG's on this forum will answer. My wife makes a lot more comments about other women when I am with her. I don't even notice who she may be referring to. I may have scanned the man or woman subconsciously, but, if he or she does not stand out for any reason it is just another non threatening person passing by. I have seen several cross dressers and the ones I have identified do look like a "man in a dress." There is more to passing than just the "look" and clothes. It's also mannerisms. Frankly, a woman does not have to think how to pass as a woman.

[Lynn Marie]

My experience? I find that women find me non-threatening and interesting, men find me threatening to their manhood and wish their girlfriends weren't so darned intrigued!

[IleneD]

I've been out in public.
No matter how good my make up and make over is, I will always be 6'3" in bare feet (add heels?). If I was a natural GG, at that altitude I would still attract public attention. No way around it.
Of course people look. I count on it.

[Helen 2]

Helen 2,
You may joke about those comments but they do happen and I have had them all said to me more than once.


Teresa....I was not joking! :heehee:
Okay, I was but only because yes, I've had similar comments made to me as well
Hugs
Helen

[Cheryl T]

Could say if women stare more than men. I no longer look to see who's looking at me.
When I'm out I'm just another woman going about her business and that doesn't include watching to see who's watching me. I have far more important things to do.

[ReineD]

The very first time I saw a CDer - this was a few years before I met my SO - I could not stop staring, although I tried not to. Fifteen years ago I joined a small women’s group that met weekly. The first time I went, the CDer’s wife took me aside at the end of the meeting and she mentioned that her husband (who happened to not have been there that evening) was a CDer who had received permission from the other members to be a part of the group. This was a head’s up, presumably so I wouldn’t register surprise, the following week when her husband would be there. I was thankful she had told me.

The following week her husband showed up dressed conservatively, but at a level of dress that was different than the rest of us. We were all very casually dressed in hanging around clothes, without any attempt at looking fashionable. This was a laid back meeting during a week night, in the basement of a church. Her husband was wearing a knee-length skirt with jacket, blouse, scarf, hose, heels, and wore lot of makeup & jewelry, painted nails, and a wig that looked like a wig. What stood out most of all, was the disjoint between what her husband was wearing compared to everyone else, and it set him apart rather than made him part of the group. Also, the voice was off, as a male who tried to disguise his voice. It would have been better to just speak in a normal voice because of course everyone knew who he was.

I’m sure her husband felt he was well groomed, but the fact that he was a male in a male body (despite the forms and pads) overrode everything about the look. Had a woman worn the exact same outfit and accessories, I would have considered her well dressed, albeit over-dressed for the event. But all I could see was a male who looked way different than other males.

I was fascinated. My brain was trying to wrap around the idea that here was a male who was not a drag queen, who certainly didn’t look as if he dressed for fetish reasons, but who wanted to present as a female. I had seen pictures of drag queens and fetish CDers before, and so I understood the concept of dressing for fetish or for show. It took about two weeks and then I got used to my friend’s husband. After a while, I didn’t even notice the clothes, wig, and the fake voice. He was just another member participating like everyone else, but I was never able to think of him as a woman. He was just a nice guy who came to our group and although I didn’t understand wanting to present the way he did, I totally accepted that he was there. I later got to know them better as a couple, and I saw him often over the years in both guy and girl modes.

And having had this experience, I was not phased when I met my SO a few years later. My brain had already wrapped itself around the idea there are males who enjoy presenting as females outside of drag queens or fetish reasons.

PS .. I referred to the husband as a "he", because he does not identify as a woman. He stopped CDing about 5-7 years ago, after having crossdressed since puberty. He is older now, and according to his wife, the CDing has lost its magic. Last time I saw him, he had a beard.

[CONSUELO]

I don't really know the answer to this question but I did notice many comments about legs and that is one thing about which many women have made comments. I have no explanation but as an example I was visiting a female friend and she saw a photo of me in shorts. She immediately commented about my legs. Yet another enigma.

[ellbee]

Thanks for sharing your experience, Reine! :)

And what I think is even more amazing, is that you *did* already have some "warning" & knowledge... You knew it was going to be a guy. You knew it was going to be a CD'er. You knew they had a wife. You knew that he was probably "cool," and not some strange weirdo creep who might possibly do something odd or bad, in that the others were already okay (enough) with it all & already had experience with it. And you would be in a safe environment.

And yet you *still* stared! :confused3:


Now, take all the above away, as with in the OP's situation. These GG's had no idea who she was, what she might do or say, and they were not expecting to see that, especially in such a vanilla environment.

Yeah, I guess I could see how some GG's would possibly stare a bit in such a situation.


Honestly, I've never really experienced that, myself, either, as some others have also mentioned. Did they sneak some glances while I wasn't paying attention? Probably. But I've never had the GG-*stares*.

Guy-stares is obviously a different story, of course. :laughing:

[ReineD]

And yet you *still* stared! :confused3:

Yes I did, because it was a concept that I was unfamiliar with and that I had not seen up close before, especially among people in my circles. My brain was learning, and in order to do that it had to absorb all the details. I did this by looking at him.




Now, take all the above away, as with in the OP's situation. These GG's had no idea who she was, what she might do or say, and they were not expecting to see that, especially in such a vanilla environment.

I doesn't matter if there is prior knowledge or not, for someone who sees a CDer for the first time. They still have to get used to the idea in a more concrete way than just "knowing" in the abstract there are people out there who do this.



Honestly, I've never really experienced that, myself, either, as some others have also mentioned. Did they sneak some glances while I wasn't paying attention? Probably.

There are different things that can affect this. For example, if the CDer is presenting as a male who is wearing only a few girly things, likely the onlookers will take him as just being gay. The concept of effeminate males is certainly not foreign to most people in our day and age. But, if this same CDer would have appeared in public dressed like that 20 years ago, then he would have been stared at. It also depends on the age of onlookers and what backgrounds they have. If they're young and they live in a urban area, they likely are familiar with the concept better than older people in more sparsely populated, more conservative areas. Also, a lot of young people today purposely set out to dress in a more unisex way (devoid of extreme femininity or masculinity), and sometimes the distinction between someone who is making a political statement for equality of the sexes, and someone who is presenting a toned down version of a feminine expression, is narrow.

If someone was curious about your presentation, maybe they did stare without your knowledge. But, most people really are proccupied with their own lives and if you're out at a mall, you might register with a few people, most of whom will think "whatever" and will move on. I reacted the way I did fifteen years ago because it was fifteen years ago and not now, and we were all spending time in a small room in the basement of a church for one hour. lol

[ellbee]

Reine, did he ever notice you staring at him at any point? If so, what did either/both of you do (quickly look away, smile, get embarrassed, etc.)?

Did you two ever talk about his CD'ing, or privately with his wife (aside from the original heads-up)? Maybe just compliment on something he wore?


And no, in my prior post I wasn't knocking you or anything for staring. Just that you did, even when armed with that advanced knowledge, which apparently didn't make a lick of difference, LOL. I would have thought it may have? Guess not! Just trying to grasp the whole concept from the other side... I have enough experience with the guy-stares, but genuinely interested in the GG-stares.

And now that I think about it, I did get the long stares from GG's when showing them *photos*, anyway. They really couldn't take their eyes off them... Maybe meet my eyes for a split-second during our conversation, then quickly back to staring at the pics. :laughing:


Anyway, you say you were fascinated. From my experience, you certainly aren't alone in that. Many GG's can be like that. In fact, some would even *gush* over it! Like, even over the course of the entire evening, peppering me with questions, complimenting me, etc. While that was pretty cool, part of me was thinking, "Yeah, okay, enough. It's not a big deal. Let's move on. You're even starting to embarrass me a little now, LOL!"

But, I also understood that while the whole thing wasn't a big deal *to me*, since I had been at it for quite a while by that point in my life -- it was *to them*, especially considering the only real prior experience they had was, at best, seeing in-person drag queens performing in a show or competition.

[Dana44]

One thing I noticed at the party last weekend was that Women noticed everything about me and opened conversations and I shacked every mans hand and talked to every woman there. But non of the men asked me anything at all. But all of the women seemed to not think it was odd, but genuinely interested on where and how I got that outfit together and the decals I was using for my face. One lady had half of here face done and I talked to her about the makeup and it was nice conversation as she seemed pleased that she was noticed. So I do think women figure it out quicker but do not think we are a problem to them. Where men think a lot differently.

[Jordan-NH]

Very interesting and diverse viewpoints from all. I think, for my personal situation, I'm leaning more towards Reine's story. I shared my situation and a photo with my mother-in-law because I wanted a GG point of view. She said something similar to Reine, I was almost looking too good. It was a night out on the town so I took it up a notch over my typical day to day garb. Even though I was just in jeans, I had the long straight hair that was well style, a rather sexy top and of course the high heel boots. She said that if she had seen me she would have stared just to size up the outfit. This would explain why I've never noticed the stares before now. So that all makes more sense to me, because as a few have said, no I'm not 100% passable, I'm still a guy no matter what, but it struck me as odd that on a poorly light main street people could have ID me THAT easily. So probably a combo of I drew the looks in with my presentation and maybe that lead to further scrutiny and possible identification. I think the lesson learned is, if you dress to get attention, you're going to get it. It just wasn't from the gender I was expecting it from. :) The long and short of it, I still had a WONDERFUL night out, I felt beautiful and sexy and I really couldn't care about anyone's opinion of me. I just like to understand the way people think.

I'll post pics on the photo section in a couple days and you can all judge for yourselves.

[ReineD]

Reine, did he ever notice you staring at him at any point? If so, what did either/both of you do (quickly look away, smile, get embarrassed, etc.)?

Did you two ever talk about his CD'ing, or privately with his wife (aside from the original heads-up)? Maybe just compliment on something he wore?

He probably did notice that I was sneaking glances his way the first few times I attended the meeting. Maybe he thought I was admiring his presentation, I don't know. And over the years I did get to know him better. I did see him dressed many times and I did tell him that he looked nice, although I would never, NEVER have told him I thought he was over-dressing to go to those meetings. I wouldn't say that to a GG there either, if she had over-dressed. But, telling him he looked nice was more about an affirmation that in my opinion he had every right to present in a manner he enjoyed, than actually admiring the outfits. The outfits were OK ... you can tell that someone is making an effort and you can compliment them on this, even if the outfits are not something that you would personally wear. This doesn't mean I thought his clothes were ugly, it just means I felt neutral about them. In fact, I think that most people are rather picky about they wear and they would not choose 90% of the stuff they see out there for themselves. They only buy stuff they really like and that looks good on their bodies. Right? What looks good on one person might not be optimal on someone else.



And no, in my prior post I wasn't knocking you or anything for staring.

I didn't take it that way at all. I know that you are wanting to understand my reaction. :hugs:



Anyway, you say you were fascinated. From my experience, you certainly aren't alone in that. Many GG's can be like that. In fact, some would even *gush* over it! Like, even over the course of the entire evening, peppering me with questions, complimenting me, etc. While that was pretty cool, part of me was thinking, "Yeah, okay, enough. It's not a big deal. Let's move on. You're even starting to embarrass me a little now, LOL!"

It's impossible to know the motives behind other people's reactions, unless they tell you outright. If you notice someone staring, you can take it as admiration of your looks of course (this would be taking the glass half-full which is a good thing :)), but it is likely just curiosity. Most of us are not in the presence of men who choose to present as women and I think it is human nature to try to make sense of it. Now that I'm with my SO, I would never stare if I saw a CDer out in public, because I get it. And I did compliment my friend's husband but I hope he didn't take it as "gushing". I hope he took it the way it was meant, as validation for his effort in a world that often invalidates crossdressers. To me, "gushing" means going on and on about how wonderful they look and genuinely feeling I could look just like them. Which I don't. I'm quite happy with how I look. :)

I know that some women say things like, "you have better legs than I do", and while it is true that a CDer's legs might be slimmer than a woman's (most men's legs are), a compliment meant as overall support and validation does not mean that she wants to look like him. She can't very well say, "I really like your manly jaw and broad shoulders" when she wants to validate his presentation. Does this makes sense? We tend to look at the whole picture, even though we may isolate just one part of it to make an appropriate compliment. But, I suspect that sometimes CDers isolate parts to represent the whole. I believe this is why we see lots of avatars here of specific body parts, but I digress.

[Jenny22]

I think GGs are better at reading us, but in my experience, men are more likely to stare. I think that's why women don't stare, because they "figure it out" quicker, plus they are more understanding. Men always seem to be confused, hence why they stare.

I know my past 2 trips to the grocery store dressed up, I have been stared at by men to the point where it makes me a bit uncomfortable and just want to burst out "Take a picture, it will last longer". Last week there were 2 guys in the store who would stare at me every chance they got. One was with his wife and the other one was by himself. The store wasn't busy so it seemed like every aisle I went down, so they would be in the aisle too. I wound up behind one of them at a checkout lane and of course he just stared at me multiple times.

Today there was just one guy who stared at me. He stared at me for a few seconds, then went on his way down an aisle. Then he peaked his head back out of the aisle back toward me to get a 2nd look. I made eye contact with him and caught him looking.

I don't know but I just don't understand getting stared at. What are you trying to achieve? You figured out something is off, good for you. No need to keep staring and treat me like a sideshow. No manners or class at all.

It wasn't all bad today though. As I was walking into a Kohl's there were 2 teenage girls to my left who both looked at me and gave me a smile. I am sure they figured it out, but the smile assured me that they had a positive reaction.

For the most part, I have come to embrace stares, as long as you just do it once and its not a long one. What I hate are the people who stare at you multiple times, or gaze at you for way too long.
________________

Your "What I hate are the people who stare at you multiple times, or gaze at you for way too long." reminded me of once reading this: 'give them a big smile and a wink,' and they will usually stop staring.

[Valery L]

Yesterday, I had an experience while taking the bus. Since I entered the bus one of two college girls who were talking looked at me, and I sat down in front of them. When I am out I am normally very aware of the reactions of people including stares even when I know that their reaction is none of my business and I should not care about that since it does not affect me (at least in my case it has never happened). Most of the times I think the people around me do not read me or they simply do not care since there are no noticeable reactions. Often, there are some stares but after making eye contact it stops. In this case, the girl that looked at me when I entered the bus and sat in front of them was looking at me a lot. She continued in her talk but it was obvious that she could not stop looking at me, we made eye contact several times. I really enjoyed her attention, she looked mostly at my face but also at my legs when I crossed them, her friend looked at me a couple of times at most, it was very noticeable even for her that the other girl was really looking at me, I pretended I did not care, and used the camera of my phone, where it was more obvious that she looked even more at me when I was "busy" with my phone.

When the bus reached their stop, that girl approached me and told me that I looked really pretty. I just smiled and said thanks. I assume that she read me, but loved her reaction, her stare was not like if she was looking something disgusting, it was full of curiosity (or maybe admiration, that's what I want to think :p), and I also think that she talked to me at the end to make sure that I was a man. I don't know, but I loved the experience. Also, yesterday, the cashier in Walmart (which was also a college girl) complimented me on my hair, I told her in my manly voice that it was a wig, and she just acted surprised and told me that it looks very good. Again, I don't know if she initially read me or if she did not know it was a wig, but loved her reaction.

[Teresa]

Reine,
That is a difficult one, you were expecting a man dressed but you still stared , and for the obvious reason he was OTT, if he had turned up with light makeup and a well styled wig in clothes similar to the rest of you how much attention would he have drawn.

I try to go to my social meetings thinking I'm wearing what most GGs would wear in similar circumstances, but I'm still wearing heels and always a dress or a skirt and my nails painted. My wife has never seen me but I know she would comment either way if she saw me. If I dressed down she would expect me to make more of an effort if I wore what I normally do she'd think I was over the top. That is the big difference between a GG going out and a CDer . I have had some wonderful comments possibly because I didn't blend in, it then evolves into a conversation about where you bought the outfit and how much and how nice it looks . I also feel they stare because they didn't think a man could get it together and look so good, so it's possibly the unexpected. Ok there maybe a a hint that some might even fancy you dressed but that's possibly my wishful thinking and that's also a subject for another thread.

[ellbee]

She can't very well say, "I really like your manly jaw and broad shoulders"...

:roflmao:



We tend to look at the whole picture, even though we may isolate just one part of it to make an appropriate compliment.

I also believe one's legs may be a socially agreed-upon "safe" thing to compliment. While a CD'er might also have a nice butt to go along with those nice legs, oftentimes it's probably not entirely appropriate to say, "Hey, nice ass!" -- which could also potentially imply something different. :D



Anyway, Valery:

I think it goes back to my 1st post in this thread: In some cases regarding perfect strangers, they may be trying to "figure you out."

If one doesn't look overtly like "a guy in a dress," but instead in enough ways that puts one closer to the other end of the spectrum, they still might think the CD'er in question is or was or a guy, but perhaps they're wondering if they might actually be transitioning, or have already transitioned.

And one reason I say that, is because one might not appear to be what *they* consider to be a "stereotypical" CD'er.


I dunno, just my 2 cents on it.

Enjoy the *good* stares & positive interactions! :thumbsup:

[ReineD]

Reine,
That is a difficult one, you were expecting a man dressed but you still stared , and for the obvious reason he was OTT, if he had turned up with light makeup and a well styled wig in clothes similar to the rest of you how much attention would he have drawn.

The wig was well styled, it just looked like a woman’s wig on a man’s head.

This is perhaps going into more detail than the OP might like, but to answer your question, if he had come in wearing what we wore (sneakers, jeans, and loose nondescript tops because it was a meditation meeting), then you’re right, I would not have been curious about his presentation. His appearance would not have stood out, he would have looked just like a regular guy. I would simply have wondered why he was at a women's meeting. :)

Taken one step further, if he had instead presented as an effeminate man with light makeup, pink top, earrings and cute heels, I think I would have glanced at him just as often because again, we don't see a lot of men who present that way, not even gay men. Or had he dressed like us but with breast forms, his appearance would still have puzzled me. We do not see a lot of males wearing breast forms.

But, I don’t think he would have wanted to wear clothes similar to what he wears in guy mode (which is what the rest of us were wearing - sneakers, jeans, unremarkable tops), nor would he have wanted his beard to show. Dressing like us would have defeated his purpose. His point in joining the women's meeting was to have an outing as a woman. Most of the women were his wife's friends and out of respect for their friend they understood that her husband was a crossdresser wanting an evening with the girls, which is why they voted to include him.

The takeaway from all of this is, it didn't matter to us how he dressed. He was a nice guy that everyone liked. This was an inclusive and friendly group, and everyone accepted that he wanted to be there. No one judged him for what he wore, other than perhaps generally wondering why a male would want to dress like a woman, and because I was the newcomer who had never seen a crossdresser before, it took a few sessions before I got used to him. I still wondered why he would have wanted to dress up in heels, hose and jewelry for meditation though.

But, the biggest difference I think was in his perception of the situation compared to ours. Where he might have felt he was having a girl's outing as one of us, in our eyes he wasn't female like us. He was our friend’s husband (a nice guy that we all liked) who had a male body and who was dressed like a girl. This isn't being mean, it's being realistic. No matter how much we might believe and accept that a crossdresser wants to take part in women’s activities and be treated as a woman, we cannot suspend the reality of knowing that he was her husband and male, who as it happens also presented as a male most of the time. He worked as a male and he was known to other community members as a male. Our brains cannot "un-know" what our eyes perceive, even though we may respect that her husband wanted to look different than the other males in our lives. If this makes sense.

[Becky Blue]

Because in my opinion women tend to look at the whole package, the shoes accessories how your hair is done etc. So it is much more likely they will pick us. Many men focus on the body parts they like. So perhaps they stare at your boobs or legs so therefore are much less likely to pick us, specially if we have nice legs if thats their thing.

[Teresa]

Reine,
Thanks for a complete answer , if I may just ask one more question .

You are now in that situation and women must stare at your partner when you go out , are you aware of it or have you just become oblivious to it ? Do you see it as going out with your husband or a female companion, and do you chose the outfit or let him make his own choice ?

Obviously in my situation I attend social meetings with other members of the TG community, if some choose to go OTT, we may think WTF but we don't say anything and the same applies to bad wigs and so-so makeup. The first occasion I did get stared at was when members of a wedding party saw me but then we all received more than a glance. They didn't find it a problem because later in the evening we were all invited to join their party by the bride and groom, the Xmas party is going to be interesting because we will be sharing the room with other members of the public. That will be a first for me, my intended outfit will be a black cocktail dress so nothing OTT and certainly not the Union Jack dress I wore for the Halloween evening.

[ReineD]

You are now in that situation and women must stare at your partner when you go out , are you aware of it or have you just become oblivious to it ? Do you see it as going out with your husband or a female companion, and do you chose the outfit or let him make his own choice ?


Yes, I am aware of people noticing, both women AND men, probably more so than my SO. I don't know if my SO looks at people in the eye as much as I do. We've gone out mostly to restaurants for dinner these last few years, and so whoever notices has to do with the placement of people sitting near us. Sometimes a woman is facing us, and sometimes it is a man. But, not everyone notices the people sitting around them in restaurants and not everyone stares. When people stare too long, I stare at them right back and then they stop. It doesn't happen very often, except recently at a coffee shop, one of the younger staff noticed and I saw them all come out of the back area to have a look at my SO. I gave them a hard stare and then they went away. I don't think my SO noticed. She was correcting papers at the time. And I would never point it out to her.

I see it as going out with my SO. I see absolutely no difference in my SO, no matter how my SO presents. None, other than the fact that my SO is wearing makeup and women's clothing. We talk about the same things, treat each other the same, our feelings for each other don't change. The only difference is that we do not hold hands when we walk if my SO is presenting as a woman, because this would tend to attract attention, which would increase the chances of people looking at us long enough to read my SO. Also, I don't like being stared at.

And no, there's no way that my SO wants my input in deciding what to wear. lol. My SO has got to be the most independent, individualistic person I have ever met. He hates to be told what to do. I sometimes wonder if any suggestion I may make, would be perceived as a criticism of his taste. I don't know. In any event, deciding what to wear is not an issue in our household. I just grab the closest thing at hand, and my SO will choose to wear either the newest outfit or something she hasn't worn for awhile. Or, she often wears the things that I have given her as gifts, except that she remembers which of her pieces I bought. I don't. There's no way that I can remember a top I may have gotten her 5 years go, and so I think this is either very sweet, or my SO has a kick-*ss memory. :D

[Majella St Gerard]

You were clocked, very few can pass muster with the female eye.

[Teresa]

Reine,
I really appreciate you taking the time to reply to my question, it's not that long ago you were giving me the push to go out and be Teresa. Things do move on very quickly I'm asking questions I thought I would never ask and dealing with issues that were never going to happen, the great thing is the World hasn't ended it's just opened up to me, I don't feel alien to it but a part of it .

[irene9999]

During the daytime I didn't really get checked out too much by either gender but at night I found both men and women would check me out, probably equally I would say. Women would tend to fixate on my dress, legs and shoes while guys would a lot of times just check out my legs lol