View Full Version : Filming yourself in public?
ellbee
11-10-2016, 04:30 PM
I was going to entitle this thread "The Elephant in the Room". Why? Because I just watched this video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6uvd0HCW_M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6uvd0HCW_M
Honestly, it does pain me to watch this. (Her proximity of others begins about 1 minute in.)
And feel free to use the pause & rewind buttons. Ouch. :(
That said... :)
I'm still watching a bunch of YouTube videos of those who film themselves while en femme in public.
And no, they are not all that painful. It's actually pretty interesting to watch.
What are your thoughts on doing this? And do you ever do it, yourself?
Exris
11-10-2016, 04:47 PM
No. I see nothing wrong with this.
Not with the girl. I see alot wrong with the public. Looks like Germany, doesnt surprise me. Very liberal law but conservative public.
IamWren
11-10-2016, 04:57 PM
I think I've seen this one before, not sure but I have seen other CDers who video themselves out and about.
It's kinda like when football players watch game tape and try to analyze the plays and where they went wrong.
This video (in my opion) is a really good example of how NOT to blend in. I feel embarrassed for her and I agree Laura... quite painful to watch.
I've videoed myself trying to analyze my walk and it's not a pretty sight. Something I definitely need to work on just like this CDer in the video you posted.
Micki_Finn
11-10-2016, 04:59 PM
The only thing I saw wrong was... I could be mistaken, but was she wearing a garter belt and stockings under pantyhose? PICK ONE! Ok done being judgemental now.
No I don't think I'd ever want to be filmed while our en femme. I usually try to blend and nothing says "look over here! Something interesting is happening!" more than someone pointing a camera somewhere.
JenniferMBlack
11-10-2016, 05:09 PM
I'm going to agree with Micki on the not filming because it will draw attention. That being said if that's what you want to do have fun.
As for the video she is way over dressed for fast food . Other then that I don't see anything wrong.
Exris
11-10-2016, 05:11 PM
She walks no worse than I do. Looks like thats a tip for me.
She is not walking in to a LBGTQ bar. She is out in the open in a Burger King. A freeway one where she can realistically expect it not to be too crowded. But out in the open... possibly subject to all kinds of abuse.
I wont budge from my earlier statement. I think it's very brave. Very very brave. And if there were more like her perhaps Id be less frightened to go out.
DIANEF
11-10-2016, 05:16 PM
Quite like the outfit (though I wouldn't wear it now) but as soon as she started walking, yep, that's a guy. I suppose you have to admire the nerve to do this sort of thing (I know it's second nature for some) but the peoples reactions said it all. As we all know it takes a lot more than a dress and a wig to pass as a girl.
Jenniferathome
11-10-2016, 05:40 PM
The only thing I saw wrong was... ...
The "only" thing Micki? How about these:
1) red stripper heels in day time
2) red stripper heels
3) mini skirt with hose
4) way over accessorized for a fast food joint, even in Germany!
5) Way over dressed for a fast food joint
6) Too scantily dressed for a fast food joint.
This person is the antithesis of blending, which is fine for if that's what they want, but the stares show just how out of sync she was.
As for filming yourself, whatever.
Tracii G
11-10-2016, 06:23 PM
Cute outfit but would have been better with flats or low heels and deff not red hooker heels.
Whats with hose over hose and a garter belt? Shiny hose in this case doesn't look all that appropriate.
dolovewell
11-10-2016, 06:40 PM
I record videos of myself, but in my car or in a dressing room or a secluded place where I can set up my tripod
I would need a wingman to film me if I wanted to be filmed just going about my business out in public.
Stephanie47
11-10-2016, 06:43 PM
I don't know if her appearance is attracting attention by itself or the act of self filming. Wouldn't any person walking down the street with an arm extended with a camera/camera phone catch attention. Of course, not seeing her face I cannot tell if the outfit is age appropriate, even though the hosiery is a little too much. Not so much the outfit as the heels are out of place for a leisurely stroll into a fast food restaurant unless you're accompanied by a troupe of giggly teenage girls. I've watch a lot of these YouTube productions and I'd say they come out better if someone is accompanying the lady. It's kind of difficult to look like you're just acting normal when you need to be so close to a camera. I do give them all high marks for having the courage to do it. The videos of some girls being lead down the street in a French Maid outfit are really over the top.
Cheryl T
11-10-2016, 07:20 PM
The outfit wasn't that bad...IF...you remove the stockings and go bare legged, change to flats and carry a purse, not a camera. It would have been a better exercise if someone else was filming this. Then you could see more "real" responses.
The one that I laughed at was the guy who was trying to look and yet look like he's not looking. So typical of a guy LOL...
A little practice walking would help with her blending as well. She didn't look that comfortable in those heels.
ellbee
11-10-2016, 07:21 PM
Was just watching one from a different girl...
She looked okay, I guess. A lot more blendy than the other, no skirt this time (leggings, but with heels too high, IMO).
Could tell it was a CD'er, but again, the outfit was fairly appropriate & even their body (thin & not too tall) didn't really give them away -- their male-walk, however, was quite evident.
Had her camera running in her car as she walked into a strip mall type thingy. Two GG's (mother & adult daughter?) coming the opposite direction, both spotted her right away from a distance & quickly look at each other. They then both focus on her, more or less staring (which probably would have stopped had she made eye contact). One even obviously looked at the heels (probably thinking, "Oh, hon... Too high!")
As soon as they passed each other? BAM! The 2 GG's turn to one another with huge, long-lasting smiles on their faces. One appeared to be laughing a bit. Hard to tell if one said something to the other. Then one turned her head to get another look. No way the CD'er, who simply kept walking while looking straight ahead, would have known all that if the camera wasn't rolling.
Of course, I also see some other videos where people don't even bat an eye. Were the "bad" parts edited out? Who knows. But honestly, nothing really looks out of the ordinary with those, whether it's appearance, or movement, or behavior, or whatever... Just looks like a regular chick walking around. Maybe not the prettiest face out there, but hey, who cares. Those CD'ers probably wouldn't have caught my immediate attention (negative or positive), either. Perhaps not necessarily a "pass" -- but a blend in my book, anyway.
Oh, and I'm finding these videos by just doing a YouTube search for "crossdress public" or whatever. Like I said, pretty interesting! :)
dolovewell
11-10-2016, 08:44 PM
The whole concept is interesting, and I want to do it myself, but the logistics of it all make it difficult.
You would either need a wingman with a camera, or an expensive wearable camera(which would only capture point of view) or finding creative places to plant your camera down, but the downside with that is that its stationary and you are limited to where you can go. I suppose at a store you could place your camera on a shelf and let it record for a bit. Or like I saw in one video, place the camera on the dashboard of your car and have it point to where you will go to.
Exris
11-10-2016, 09:32 PM
Just watched it again after reading more of your comments.
The Red Stripper heels... yes. Not daytime attire. Tho I have a pair that look very similar... Um...
Age appropriate clothing. @2:30 you see her hands very clearly. The hands are how I judge someones age even when I can see someones face. She is < 30. Mid to late mid 20's if you want me to be more specific.
Im ready to be proved dead wrong tho!
- - - Updated - - -
Using the search term Laura used - I very quickly found a type of short clip I LOVE.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDerNT3XxXg
Out and about with your friends! :)
No deception exactly. They are what they are. Take them as that or leave them. The taller girl in particular I find very convincing. And in the very last portion... getting ona plane dressed.
Think I'll look for more of their adventures...
Nikki.
11-10-2016, 10:32 PM
Jenniferathome
This. Definitely this. Leaving an imprint in the minds of those who saw her. At a nightclub, at night, if she's 25, whatever.
Zooey
11-10-2016, 11:13 PM
For the record, when I've talked about the idea of becoming an unwilling prop in somebody else's fantasy or fetish, this - and especially the video in the OP - is a perfect (non-overtly sexual) example of that. I have approximately zero doubt that this person has at least one video of themselves in the ladies room, whether they've posted it online or not.
The fact that so many of you think the worst thing about this is what they're wearing or how well they pass or not is distressing.
Jenniferathome
11-10-2016, 11:32 PM
Zooey, do you believe you have complete privacy when out in public? You do not. People taking selfies may capture your image in the background. You might be on video from dozens of security cameras. Tourists taking photos and videos might capture you as well. All of us lose privacy when we are out in PUBLIC.
As for the assertion that this person has videos of themselves in a bathroom, that is baseless and says more about you then them.
ellbee
11-10-2016, 11:53 PM
The fact that so many of you think the worst thing about this is what they're wearing or how well they pass or not is distressing.
Why call attention to one's self like that??
Sorry, but she sticks out like a sore thumb.
And it's partly because of that, that she gets the reactions that she does, making it worse for everyone (including herself) than it should be.
I want to feel bad for her, but judging from her other videos, I believe she's intentionally seeking that kind of attention. Hey, whatever floats one's boat? :strugglin
And yes, there are some out there who don't want to blend, but to dress "loud" & differently. That's fine... In fact, it's awesome! I'm a big fan of that, and sometimes wish I could do it. But it's difficult to pull that off successfully -- usually they have the friendly & extroverted personality to go along with it, and as such, makes many people around them feel pretty good & comfortable about the whole thing.
This is not the case in the video.
I'm not "blaming" it all on her, but you gotta admit, she isn't exactly helping the situation, either. And the same could be said about how anyone presents themselves, even when it has nothing to do with CD'ing.
Anyway, the intended subject of this thread wasn't this particular video, per se. Though I do find it interesting.
I believe the bigger story is the filming of all this stuff, regardless who's doing it. I've noticed that it picks up a lot of things that the CD'er doesn't normally catch, especially when watching it in full-screen mode on a large monitor, and utilizing the pause button. As Sue mentioned, it's like an analysis for football players & coaches. I believe people can learn a lot from this stuff.
Zooey
11-10-2016, 11:53 PM
Of course we lose privacy in public. Filming, at least in situations where permitting is not required, is not illegal. Obviously I'm not concerned with being a passerby in the background of somebody's selfie. Security cameras are a necessary evil whose benefits outweigh their costs.
What this is, however, is creepy as shit, and intent matters. This is fetish. If you see a nervous guy filming an elementary school playground with a zoom lens, you reserve the right to be Deeply Concerned™. If you see a man dressed like a hooker filming themselves practicing their "sexy lady walk" in/around a fast food joint you happen to be eating in, where they're also visibly and intentionally capturing YOUR reactions to them, I think you at least reserve the right to feel like you're being used to fulfill a fantasy without your consent.
Lorileah
11-11-2016, 01:41 AM
There is a strong air of exhibitionism there and bringing non-consensual people into your fantasy is wrong. Honestly, if it was a GG doing all that she would have garnered that much attention too. Zooey says it's non-sexual, I disagree, they subject is doing it as a kick or to be noticed. Everything about it screams "hey! look at me!!!" Everyone is judged on first impressions. She got what she wanted (at one point you can even hear her giggle when people stare).
As noted, it's your thing, do whatcha wanna do. I also say don't bring me into your fantasy game and definitely don't bring people of non-consent age (the kids) into it.
And I also ask...shiny pantyhose over garters?
Zooey
11-11-2016, 01:50 AM
Zooey says it's non-sexual, I disagree, they subject is doing it as a kick or to be noticed. Everything about it screams "hey! look at me!!!"
Sorry, I probably wasn't clear on that - I think it's undeniably sexual. My point was that it's not overtly/explicitly sexual in the way some people seem to think it needs to be in order to qualify. Just because they're not visibly diddling themselves in public doesn't mean it's not sexual
Tracii G
11-11-2016, 02:29 AM
You have to admit this is a good example of what shoes not to wear with an outfit like that.
The walk is a dead giveaway to me but hey most of us are no better at it than she is so keep that in mind if you venture out.
If you want to film have a friend go with you to handle the camera.JMO
Rachelakld
11-11-2016, 03:32 AM
Personally I don't give a rats behind
As to sexual, that's your personal interpritation, just as a bit of leg may be sexual to some sections of socity or g-string bikinis may also be (I find minds are the sexy bits).
In this example, yes she in dressed similar to the trans on some of our street corners late at night (and I definately don't think they are sexy at all, I think they are trying to be noticed and make a living).
I bet in 10 years time, this same "actress" will be dressed to blend as more experianced girls do (I used to dress to be noticed 30 years ago, what 18-26year old girl doesn't on occassions).
There are many more "normally dressed" on youtube, some with fun backing tracks, some just enjoying themselves.
If it helps, I'll hold the camera, suggest lighting solutions, help with the story line, editing etc.
ellbee
11-11-2016, 03:38 AM
Here's a lovely one...
Quite the old woofer wearing a belted winter coat. Underneath? Top, waist-cincher, pantyhose & panties.
Read that list again. Um, forgetting something??
Oh, that's right... Go into some clothing store in the back, set up your camera, pace back & forth & look all sketchy, and then flash us -- multiple times. :brolleyes:
No wonder some people are creeped out by us. Heck, *I'm* now creeped out by us!
WTF is wrong with some CD'ers?!?
Valery L
11-11-2016, 03:41 AM
I have seen that video before, I like it :)
Seriously, I do not see anything wrong with it. I mean, I would not dress like that but I respect her choice, she is free to do it and I admire her bravery. To be honest I do not find anything painful about it. It is clear that she does not want to blend in, what is the problem with that?, it is her choice.
And about to film myself, I have done that!, I would share some of my short videos if I knew how to do it. However, I do not film my self very often and I don't draw any attention, like doing it when I am completely alone, or just recording my face as if I was about to take a selfie, things like that because I do not want to draw unnecessary attention. The ideal thing for me would be if someone else filmed me, that would be amazing since I am very curious about how passable I can be when I go out and do my things.
Princess Chantal
11-11-2016, 05:38 AM
One of my friends loves to do the video of herself. She doesn't do it to capture the reaction of those around her, but obviously likes the attention online as she adds tags like "up-skirt" to her videos. Majority of her public outings are with me and my partner, so we may be tending the camera at times while we are enjoying whatever activity we are doing. She tends to do some recording before and or after by herself. Her thing is to show off her legs in pantyhose out and about.
Here's her latest video from the fun we had during the weekend before Halloween. We went to the casino for the karaoke and costume contest (in which my friend Mutt won) then to the lgbt nightclub. You could see me around the minute mark dancing with a group of women that came up to me asking to dance. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E1IMen6p6a0
aprilgirl
11-11-2016, 08:12 AM
Obviously, an exhibitionist here, brazenly out and about merely for shock value purposes. I didn’t watch the video, and have no desire to do so, but the intent is clear. It’s not as if they were trying to blend, or capture other’s non- reactions, to determine if they passed. There is a time and place for everything, and this wasn’t it, in my opinion.
Krisi
11-11-2016, 09:17 AM
OK, I watched it.
First of all, a couple people are reading things into this video that aren't there. It's a self made video of a crossdresser out in public that's been put on the Internet. Nothing more. If you don't like it, turn it off.
Second, although I suspect this crossdresser is proud of herself, she has a long way to go if she is trying to blend in as a woman. Her entire outfit is inappropriate for daytime and for a casual restaurant. Plus, she forgot the most obvious thing, a purse. Unfortunately, when I read the stories members of this forum post of their excursions into the real world, it often looks like they are making the same mistakes. This video makes a good instructional video on how not to pass or blend in public.
As for taking videos of yourself in public, you really need someone else to go with you and work the camera. Even setting the camera down leaves you walking in and out of the frame or back and forth like the first part of this video. I have done that myself and it's pretty pointless..
If you want to record other people's reactions, you can buy an inexpensive video camera (under $100) and hide it in your purse.
mykell
11-11-2016, 09:35 AM
was always amazed how whoopie walked in heels, could only find this short clip but if anyone has watched her movies they might recall, and i dont think she does it on purpose, she just does not know how....
KBrG0khqqno
dolovewell
11-11-2016, 09:39 AM
Wearing clothes that are not appropriate for the occasion is exactly what reinforces negative stereotypes about crossdressers and makes it more difficult for us.
Spare me the "We need to be supportive! Don't judge what a crossdresser wears out in public! We need to be supportive of all crossdressers, regardless of what they wear! How dare you judge what she is wearing! We should be celebrative and positive toward any outfit!" garbage.
Sometimes being supportive means saying "No, bad idea. Don't do that". It also means treating a crossdresser just like you would a GG. I would not look favorably toward a GG that dressed inappropriate for the occassion. Same with a crossdresser.
Out of curiosity I watched more of these crossdressing in public videos on YouTube - it angers me that so many of them are so sexualized and fetishized. I get that your YouTube audience may be looking for one thing, but you are satisfying that audience at the expense of ruining the reputation of crossdressers in the public eye.
IamWren
11-11-2016, 11:23 AM
.... The fact that so many of you think the worst thing about this is what they're wearing or how well they pass or not is distressing.
For the record... I do not believe my comment about not blending in is the worst thing about that video. In threads past though I have hinted my disdain for fetish dressers and was promptly scolded for it and had comments deleted.
After watching this person's other videos, I am certain he is a fetish dresser but more so, gets off on the rush of the exhibition and of people gawking at him out in public than simply presenting as a female and going about your day.
And for the "if that's your thing, fine" camp. No! I call BS on that crap. Like Zooey said, he is using other people without them knowing they are being video recorded for his exhibitionist fetish to get off later. THAT is NOT ok if that's your thing!
I completely agree with DoLove in that people like this reinforce negative stereotypes of crossdressers and reinforce negative feelings toward anyone who is on the TG spectrum who is honestly just trying present themselves in a way that matches their gender identity.
AnnieMac
11-11-2016, 12:17 PM
Ya know, I've read everyone's comments here, and they are good and well expressed. Mine is that it doesn't matter whether we are talking about a crossdresser, or GG out to grab a bit to eat on the road somewhere. When you are dressed that differently than everyone else for a particular location, you are going to attract attention. I can remember myself staring as a reaction to GG's I have seen when they were dressed drastically to attract attention. So CD or GG it doesn't matter much.
The fact that this is recorded to later watch people's reactions changes things also. i think it's one thing to record yourself when dressed to blend, and see how well you are passing at passing (so to speak), used as a learning tool to help you in the future. I think this can be very useful I would think. But the fact that he has on the frilly super short skirt, hooker heels, and especially the gartered stockings, under panty-hose, is meant to attract attention for probably fetish reasons. When have you seen any normal woman dressed like that! That brings a whole big level of creepiness factor to it, and weirds me out, like it would weird out any normal GG. That video makes me want to purge tomorrow (naw, I wont) .
It made me think that the creeped-out reaction we have to this might be some what equal to what our SOs have, when they see us dressed for the first time, perhaps its on that level, I dunno. Gee, I hope this guy doesn't do this often, I'm having a hard enough time trying to get brave enough to go out dressed normally, and hope people won't notice me, or at least accept me. - Annie's Soapbox
I Am Paula
11-11-2016, 12:28 PM
Hey...no one got hurt, and she was having fun. No, she didn't blend...so? Somebody needs to go to Comicon.
Helen_Highwater
11-11-2016, 01:07 PM
I'm torn between on the one hand being a strong supporter of every persons right to present themselves as they see fit as against doing something for the shock value. This I don't see this as a piece of performance art or an attempt to push social boundaries. There's no attempt to really interact with those around other than to say, no not say, yell, look at me! I'd go as far as to call it irresponsible for as others have said it re-enforces many peoples distorted impressions of how the vast majority of Trans/CD folks behave.
Now I'm sure that in the past I've looked in the mirror and seen a fairy princess looking back when I should have seen an ugly sister and in truth non of us know just how she sees herself so again there's a part of me willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. The socially responsible part of me says there are far better ways to present yourself and represent the rest of our community.
And if you do want to glam it up then there's a time and a place to do it
ellbee
11-11-2016, 01:17 PM
Another that made me shake my head...
Younger CD'er, maybe mid- to late-20's. Dressed for attention, but I suppose in a way where she can kinda-sorta get away with it. Her height in heels is a big give-away, but overall looks okay enough. A bit animated in her femmy swishyness, but I suppose I'd rather see that than some hulking man-walk. Also, she likes to ham it up for the camera sometimes when apparently no one is looking, LOL... Definitely engages the viewers.
What's great about her videos is that she enjoys making small-talk with strangers & service people (e.g., at a coffee shop). She's smiling & obviously having a good time, and oftentimes it appears the other person genuinely is, too. Very extroverted type.
Here's the thing: Sometimes the camera picks up the audio if you turn up the volume... And she's talking like freakin' Mickey Mouse!!!
Why, why, WHY?? :doh:
Oh, and something confirmed in her videos that I already knew: If a guy knows you're a CD'er, sometimes he will still check out your butt & legs some more when you're not looking, anyway. :laughing:
Krisi
11-11-2016, 01:18 PM
I'm a bit torn between the two myself.
On the one hand, we have the right to dress as we want to. That includes dressing like a hooker to attract attention and going out as a man in a dress and shocking people.
On the other hand, it does stereotype crossdressers in a negative way and that makes it harder for the rest of us to be accepted or at least tolerated by the public.
ellbee
11-11-2016, 01:38 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aiYDyhxpMk
I kinda like some of starrynowhere's videos & the way she does it. Not the first time I've seen them; actually watched some years ago.
She might wear some shorter dresses or whatever, but it's nothing that would grab my attention in a negative way if I saw her out on the street. She has the blending thing down pretty good, IMO. :)
Valery L
11-11-2016, 01:45 PM
It is not her duty to represent "our community", she has the right to dress as she wants. Besides I personally try to present as the best version of me when I am out, because I want to be treated and want to be seen as any other woman, I do not take any responsibility as an "ambassador" of the crossdressing collective, maybe I am one regardless of if I want to be one or not, and I surely respect everyone that decides to represent our group. However, I do not accept the responsibility since I dress for me and only for me. To have responsibilities as an "ambassador" should not be something mandatory. If someone crossdresses is because she wants to, and as long as she is not doing any harm to anybody, she can dress and act as she wants, that is none of our business.
BettyMorgan
11-11-2016, 02:18 PM
It's interesting that some crossdressers wear clothes that are a version of the girls they had sexualized fantasies about at a younger age. I think if she was a GG, those people would still stare at her.
I think it's important to normalize what we do, to let the world know that there is nothing wrong with us, that it doesn't matter that we wear clothes of the opposite gender, or a blending of genders. So be out, engage in conversations, be positive. Attitudes will change and the "looks" and stares will diminish over time.
I'm sorry but this video doesn't help the cause.
ellbee
11-11-2016, 03:23 PM
If someone crossdresses is because she wants to, and as long as she is not doing any harm to anybody, she can dress and act as she wants, that is none of our business.
Define "harm."
Because I believe that is key.
Yes, I think stuff like you see in some of these videos *is* harmful! These are some of the kinds of things the general public sees -- and remembers, since negative stuff "sticks" way more for way longer -- when it comes to CD'ers. Like others have said, it paints a bad picture for us. And with that kind of attitude towards us, no wonder so many of us are scared to go out!
Could you imagine, for example, that the one who's flashing the camera while in a women's clothing store was caught & busted? Yeah, you better believe that's hitting the news, so a whole bunch of others can read about it, creating & further reinforcing their negative opinion. Do you think that's actually good for CD'ers? Or do you think that's causing some harm?
(As an aside, some of the YouTube comments of that video were actually pushing the flasher to go even further next time. Um, what??)
Seriously, there's quite a bit of sketchy, creepy stuff out there that's filmed -- *and* then uploaded to YouTube. It's like, come on, what are you doing? Are you really getting some weird kicks out of it? How is any of this doing any good for anyone?
And then there's the not-so-in-your-face stuff, but still pretty bad. I don't believe in those cases that it's intentional, but just a CD'er using some poor judgement. Do they even watch their own videos? If so, why are they still making the same mistakes & doing it even more?? I honestly cringe when I watch some of this stuff -- and if *I'm* cringing, then you know that most non-CD'ing others are, too.
BTW, for the record, I see nothing wrong with "looking out-of-place" and/or getting attention in certain instances. For example, a few drag queens hitting a late-night eatery after a show & clubbing. It's not like they glammed it up specifically to grab a bite to eat & make a scene. Yes, they're quite obvious & obnoxious, but if they're having fun *and* can make some others laugh with them, then it's all good in my book.
That Burger King incident? Yeah, no one is laughing. And there lies a huge difference.
ronniegirl
11-11-2016, 03:43 PM
Krisi..couldn't agree with you more...
Teresa
11-11-2016, 04:11 PM
Laura,
If she was waving a large flag she couldn't have stood out anymore.
Did you see any other GG wearing what she did and to be obviously doing a video, if you wave a camera about without looking like she did people will look back to question what you're doing and why .
Her walk wasn't that bad considering the size of the heels, have you seen some GGs attempting that !
I had to smile as more customers realised what was happening at the sales counter it wasn't as much as the Ozone getting bigger but the NoZone !!
I would love to give that a go in a the same circumstances wearing my Union Jack dress
Some made comments about what might been seen on security cameras ! I had an interesting experience when buying some heels in a Next shop, a SA couldn't believe I was trying them on in the shop and called a second SA to take a look she honestly thought it was a Candid Camera stunt, a third SA came to see what the fuss was about and was about to rush off to fetch her smartphone to take some pictures but I stopped her short on that one. I still wonder what the security cameras recorded but then many of us should consider that one.
Stephanie47
11-11-2016, 04:37 PM
Now Exris' link0 at #15 to a video shot by three t-girls is a better way to make a video. First, I think the three are dressed more appropriate and are very passable. With a group going to tourist traps with one of the three video recording as tourists do, this makes a more realistic situation for any outside observer. Many times I have stopped and asked the video recorder or picture taker if she or he wants me or my wife to take a picture of the entire group, so all can be in the shot. We always get a lot of thanks and acceptances.
Zooey
11-11-2016, 05:08 PM
I'm not sure I've ever seen a group of people miss the point so spectacularly.
aprilgirl
11-11-2016, 05:24 PM
That Burger King incident? Yeah, no one is laughing. And there lies a huge difference.
I have to ask, what was the point of posting the "elephant in the room" video, as you initially coined, on here anyway? After all, others here, as well as yourself, have referenced videos where someone was making an honest effort to present themselves well in public. I can't help but think that one of those would've been a better choice. At the very least, it may have garnered some responses to your original question, as opposed to largely being ignored because of....wait for it....the elephant in the room! :)
Nikki.
11-11-2016, 06:45 PM
@Zooey:
I think I get your point and I pretty much agree, though to me it comes down to intent. If miniskirt's intent was to document his exhibitionist paraphilia for sexual gratification and spank material, I agree with you. And if that was miniskirt's intent, then I also agree it is wrong to include unwitting bystanders in their fantasy video. And yes, given the stripper heels and thigh highs, I'm inclined to think that was the intent, though it's possible the intent was for shock value ala Jackass or any of the other thousands of prank videos out there. And so the best thing given the above is to minimize miniskirt's gratification by not clicking or commenting on any of their videos.
ellbee
11-11-2016, 06:47 PM
Zooey, still confused what your solution is, then. To take her camera & smash it? To have people stop filming in public? Yeah, that will go over real well. I believe some countries already follow that practice... Care to move there? Thought not.
Some people here do get it. However, apparently not everybody is as concerned about "being used" in this way. Guess what? People are used all the time in all sorts of ways for all kinds of reasons, sometimes knowingly, and sometimes not. We pick our battles? :strugglin
April, I posted that video because it's quite telling. I originally debated doing so, because of exactly what you mentioned & ended up happening, but went with it in the end, anyway.
I see a lot of people here say, "Nobody notices!" and "Nobody cares!" Well, here's a perfect & very blatant example of that *not* being the case.
And I'm not saying that everyone actually experiences that as much as the CD'er in the video did, for all kinds of reasons. But the camera can capture a *lot* that one misses during the moment with an otherwise limited POV. Tons of videos out there show the same. Objective reality versus a subjective view. :)
dolovewell
11-11-2016, 07:22 PM
People absolutely do notice and anyone who says people don't notice are fools.
It should not be framed as whether or not people notice and instead should be framed as what the reaction is when they do notice. Its impossible to get 100% positive reactions but if you are getting more negative than positive you need to rethink your approach.
aprilgirl
11-11-2016, 07:51 PM
I see a lot of people here say, "Nobody notices!" and "Nobody cares!" Well, here's a perfect & very blatant example of that *not* being the case.
Laura, you have to admit that the subject's primary goal WAS to be noticed, making your example not so perfect. In fact, it didn't prove anything. They had no more intention of blending in as a woman than the man on the moon does.
I just feel that it has no place in the primary forum, a section that ANYONE can access. Imagine a s/o searching for answers, having recently learned a loved one's interests, then stumbling across that thread this morning. Why plant that gawker's view visual in their head, instead of someone that made an earnest effort to present themselves in a respectable manner? Sure, they'll get noticed too, if anyone cares to give them a second thought or glance, but their more likely to be treated respectfully in return.
Lorileah
11-11-2016, 08:04 PM
:thinking: well, since it doesn't violate any rulez so far, yep open forum it is. Now exactly what should be allowed here in your mind?
nd in RE Laurababe's statement as quoted above, when you WANT to be noticed you will get noticed. That was the WrOP's intent, to get noticed. It wasn't to see if she (and why do so many here keep saying "he"? C'mon people the general rule is to use pronouns that match the clothing..yes?> no?). In general, I don't get a second glance in public, so the statement MOST people don't know (don't care) is true IF you don't want to be noticed
ex·hi·bi·tion·ism
ˌeksəˈbiSHəˌnizəm/
noun
noun: exhibitionism
extravagant behavior that is intended to attract attention to oneself. This was blatant exhibitionism, I still say it has a very STRONG sexual component (and thank gawd the WrOP didn't post that). Is it good for the community? Probably not. Is it a "normal" part of the community? Probably not (disclaimer for any GGs or SOs who happen to wander in here thinking that their husband or BF does this when they dress...in this forum it isn't likely) What to do about it? Stand up, come out and talk to your SO BEFORE they wander into this forum and see what's in the public areas.
irene9999
11-11-2016, 08:17 PM
This video is pretty much the opposite of what I like to do when I go out dressed but if this person likes that I'm not gonna judge. The stripper heels during the daytime are gonna stand out no matter who wears them and she pretty much seems overdressed for where she's at.
ellbee
11-11-2016, 08:33 PM
Laura, you have to admit that the subject's primary goal WAS to be noticed, making your example not so perfect. In fact, it didn't prove anything. They had no more intention of blending in as a woman than the man on the moon does.
I just feel that it has no place in the primary forum, a section that ANYONE can access. Imagine a s/o searching for answers, having recently learned a loved one's interests, then stumbling across that thread this morning. Why plant that gawker's view visual in their head, instead of someone that made an earnest effort to present themselves in a respectable manner? Sure, they'll get noticed too, if anyone cares to give them a second thought or glance, but their more likely to be treated respectfully in return.
Um, have you looked at a lot of these YouTube videos of *others* filming themselves out & about? FWIW, I've watched a ton. And trust me when I say that not everyone is after the "blending" look -- or even know what that is or how to go about that, for that matter. And not all of those are exhibitionists, of fetishists, or whatever. They simply think they're dressing perfectly fine. But they're also dressing (& moving & behaving, etc.) in a way that will, in reality, probably garner more looks & attention than perhaps necessary or desired.
*Why* are they filming? I'm guessing all sorts of reasons. Why does *anyone* -- CD'er or otherwise -- ever film stuff & take photos? :strugglin
As for that particular video not belonging here, that's up to those who run this site. If they want to remove it, that's fine with me. Personally, I think it's a perfectly acceptable educational tool to be used in all kinds of ways. Will some see it as too blatant or extreme or obvious or the wrong kind of example? I suppose. But again, feel free to check out any of the other videos (both good & bad) out there. Many will show something similar (in terms of negative reactions from others) -- but perhaps just not as dense & compact & impactful as the video I shared. And of course you're more than welcome to share what you find approving. :)
And your argument of an SO searching for answers? Come on. You realize there's a *lot* "worse" out there on Google, right? Stuff that they perhaps have already seen during their research so far. Just making sure, here. :)
Zooey
11-11-2016, 08:34 PM
Zooey, still confused what your solution is, then. To take her camera & smash it? To have people stop filming in public? Yeah, that will go over real well. I believe some countries already follow that practice... Care to move there? Thought not.
Did I say there's a solution? No, and of course you don't smash their camera. What you can and should do, IMO, is not pretend like really inappropriate shit is suddenly acceptable just because your particular minority group is the one doing it. It doesn't hurt you to be upfront about when your "community" or a member thereof is full of shit; it helps you, by way of building trust.
Just to clarify again... The problem here is not what they're wearing. That's just one component of a much larger issue here.
I still say it has a very STRONG sexual component (and thank gawd the WrOP didn't post that). Is it good for the community? Probably not. Is it a "normal" part of the community? Probably not (disclaimer for any GGs or SOs who happen to wander in here thinking that their husband or BF does this when they dress...in this forum it isn't likely)
I think the fantasy and the energy underlying this exercise is a significantly more regular part of the CD community than some folks would like to believe. The only difference this and a zillion other examples here is that it's on video and in public.
Babbs
11-11-2016, 09:22 PM
two things jumped out at me. too tall to wear high heals and not get noticed as a man and walking like a man when presenting as a woman. i spent hundreds of hours at 3 in the morning in my basement while the family slept recording myself in all kinds of dress; walking, standing, sitting etc., mostly to see myself as a woman. but it then became a learning process watching the recordings over and over and teaching myself what to do and not to do to be as feminine as possible in the most natural way. (which I believe when you put in the effort you feel even better when presenting as a woman). My point is if you want to blend in at all it takes lots of practice, but if you don't care, be like the "guy" in the video...whatever floats your boat...the only problem with that is the ones who make no effort to blend in tend to make all crossdressers more of a freak show than we admittedly already are.
AnnaBMarie
11-11-2016, 09:30 PM
A GG in that outfit would get similar stares given the environment. One thing I noticed right off: no purse. That is a dead giveaway.
Judy-Somthing
11-11-2016, 09:54 PM
Wow you look great, I could never do that!
ellbee
11-11-2016, 10:50 PM
Judy, that's not me! :)
The whole concept is interesting, and I want to do it myself, but the logistics of it all make it difficult.
You would either need a wingman with a camera, or an expensive wearable camera(which would only capture point of view) or finding creative places to plant your camera down, but the downside with that is that its stationary and you are limited to where you can go. I suppose at a store you could place your camera on a shelf and let it record for a bit. Or like I saw in one video, place the camera on the dashboard of your car and have it point to where you will go to.
Anyway, I wanted to reply to this.
If one wanted to record themselves for analysis or whatever (and there's nothing wrong with that, IMO), you could always use the top seat portion of your shopping cart while at like Target or a grocery store or whatever. That way, you can hide & position the camera, and even position your cart. I've seen this done before with a CD'er, as well as stuff like prank videos (but I suppose the latter are a no-no, too, since they are attempting to solicit reactions, while some get a kick out of it *and* potentially make money off it? Shame on you, Allen & Peter Funt! ;) ).
Using a wing-(wo)man might not always be the best idea, for the simple fact that someone else is around, and might skew any kind of authentic & objective results.
AllieSF
11-11-2016, 10:59 PM
Gee April, maybe we should ban a lot of the threads in the general forum section to protect those innocent and helpless SO's. You know, hide the truth from newbies. They are adults and need to understand the breadth and depth of all this. With knowledge comes better understanding. The Admins/Mods have said if a thread follows the rules it can be posted.
Regarding the self video. Each to their own. Some may not like what she did, others, like me, don't really care and see no reason to make a big deal of it. However, it always amazes me that people here looking for acceptance and tolerance have so much trouble giving it to others, especially when many of those who don't like it have never been out of their own closet, or only out to very safe places.
Jenniferathome
11-12-2016, 01:20 AM
...I see a lot of people here say, "Nobody notices!" and "Nobody cares!" Well, here's a perfect & very blatant example of that *not* being the case....
Bad example and this video actually disproves your point. First of all, it is the POV of a cross dresser who thinks no one notices. That's just wishful thinking. No cross dressers are passing as a genetic woman. People notice but usually don't stare, particularly if you are dressed appropriately.
As for "no one cares" look at this video. This person is dressed like a street walker from 1985 and NO ONE says anything, approaches him nor does anything more than stare. If someone dressed like a trollop in B.K in the afternoon gets nothing more than a stare, I'd have to state that is absolute evidence of "not caring."
Rachelakld
11-12-2016, 03:35 AM
So we agree that this video doesn't represent MOST cross dressers, maybe even marginalizes cross dressers?
So we agree there are better videos that better represents cross dressers?
How many vanillas will see it if they aren't searching for it?
Have we, by discussion, made it more of an issue THAN ANY of the BK customers had?
Why have some of us CHOSEN to be offended, when NONE of those directly involved were?
ellbee
11-12-2016, 03:47 AM
Yes, Jennifer, some CD'ers certainly are a bit delusional sometimes, aren't they. ;)
Just because someone doesn't say or do anything to the CD'er via a boisterous confrontation at that moment, now means they simply don't care? LOL
(BTW, that does happen sometimes, FYI. I've been there. And so have others. It's real, my friend.)
Anyway, did we even watch the same video, here? :laughing:
People there cared. If that's not evident to anyone, perhaps they might want to look into this whole social thingy a bit more? :strugglin
Anyway, it always amazes me that when even providing evidence, some still refuse to see it.
And speaking of that, just so you know, *I* was once "fooled" by a CD'er, in the flesh. Repeat after me: I. Thought. She. Was. A. Real. GG.
So, yes, not that it makes a difference either way, really, but some are passing just fine sometimes. And now it looks like you can stop saying that. Yay! :)
Allie,
The more I think about this particular video & individual, the more I realize this is kind of a complex & very gray issue, IMO. There's a lot at play here, and I don't believe there's one correct "answer." But many of those who have posted have brought up a lot of interesting things & excellent points, so many thanks for that!
And now, I must watch some more videos, LOL...
Teresa
11-12-2016, 06:05 AM
Rachel,
I wouldn't mind betting many of us have taken a video dressed like that but in the privacy of our home, I know I have when I borrowed a very short leather skirt.
As for the walk, I commented about GGs attempting it, I saw it first hand on my last cruise, some of the younger passengers were wearing 5"+ heels they didn't walk as well as the person in the video, especially on the sweeping stair case, the only difference is there were quite a few guys waiting on the edge of their seats to catch them if they did trip, that's something a CDer might not be so fortunate about. He would probably be face down hoping the forms were still intact.
While Lorileah said no rules had been broken maybe it should have been posted in the media section. Lets be totally honest it was done for the thrill factor to see how much attention could be drawn. A GG would have attracted as much attention but possibly have not got the WTF looks when they realised it was a guy. I still find it amusing at the check out when the circle became wider when they realised what was going on.
Ok going back to other point it could have been part of a Candid Camera stunt and the public were asked after if they had any objections appearing in the video.
Krisi
11-12-2016, 09:37 AM
"it could have been part of a Candid Camera stunt and the public were asked after if they had any objections appearing in the video. "
I take photos and videos. Lots of photos and videos, especially when I'm travelling. And I'll often post them to Facebook. I don't wait until other people have cleared out of the shot and I don't blur their faces. I don't ask them to sign releases.
Anyone who thinks they have a right to not be photographed while out in public is hopelessly naïve. You can't go to the bank, shop in a store or pump gas without being photographed or recorded on video. If you are stopped by the police, you are on video. Many private citizens now have "dash cams" in their cars and record everything in front of them while driving.
You may not like it but you better learn to live with it.
- - - Updated - - -
I'm not sure I've ever seen a group of people miss the point so spectacularly.
Perhaps it's you who have missed the point. Perhaps the group of people sees this differently than you do.
Jenniferathome
11-12-2016, 10:12 AM
...Ok going back to other point it could have been part of a Candid Camera stunt and the public were asked after if they had any objections appearing in the video.
Sure Teresa, it COULD HAVE been that. I could have been a lot of things, social experiment, plot to overthrow the world, audition tape for Survivor, but we all know it is none of those things. It's a "proof" video of an exhibitionist cross dresser out in the real world.
Lastly, I want to add a rebuttal to the "he can dress any way he wants" crowd. Well, of course he can. We all can. We can also criticize his attire just as freely. If anyone here saw a woman dressed like that, no one would defend her. Anyone dressed that ridiculously opens themselves to wide criticism. And the cost of posting such nonsense as this video is taking that criticism. Does he represent cross dressers in general? Clearly no. BUT... I can promise you that his visual is exactly what the normals think is a cross dresser. When you reenforce one bad stereotype, you undo hundreds of positive interactions. That's just human nature.
NicoleScott
11-12-2016, 10:24 AM
Mixed messages on the forum.
"OK, all you crossdressers must get out of your closet for the cause of greater public acceptance. Strength in numbers! "
"Oh no, not YOU! Get back into the closet. I don't like how you're dressed."
Video subject was well-behaved. Get over it.
dolovewell
11-12-2016, 12:02 PM
So Nicole I am guessing by your logic you would have been completely OK with the guy who came in wearing a swimsuit bikini when I was working at Victoria's Secret 8 years ago?
Ressie
11-12-2016, 12:45 PM
Dolove, you've said that you're a Libertarian right? What about Freedom to dress as one likes as long as it doesn't hurt others? The person in this video isn't infringing on anyone's rights.
dolovewell
11-12-2016, 02:11 PM
Ressie, I don't think anyone in this thread is talking about PROSECUTING someone who is not dressed appropriately.
The argument is more of, are you dressing in a way that will enforce(or reinforce) negative public opinions of crossdressers.
Zooey
11-12-2016, 02:16 PM
Perhaps it's you who have missed the point. Perhaps the group of people sees this differently than you do.
i wouldn't know, because next to nobody has actually addressed the point I've been making. They keep talking about the implications of appropriate or inappropriate dress, and I'm not talking about their clothes. I'm talking about what they did. This is not a video of your group on vacation that happened to catch some people in the background. This is sexual exhibitionism, with the people in the background being used as unconsenting props in this person's fantasy.
Mixed messages on the forum.
"OK, all you crossdressers must get out of your closet for the cause of greater public acceptance. Strength in numbers! "
"Oh no, not YOU! Get back into the closet. I don't like how you're dressed."
Video subject was well-behaved. Get over it.
Again, I don't care how they're dressed. I care about what they were doing. Also, at least for me, you do need to get out for greater acceptance. YOURS though; not mine.
Personally, I don't give a shit what CDs wear in public, because (as is no secret by this point) I believe that gender non-conformance is just fine, I don't believe we are the same, and I don't believe you should reflect positively or negatively on me and my community. That's something I gladly explain to cis people any time the question comes up, so if that makes me truscum/tru trans/transmedicalist/transexual separatist or any of a host of other words that are supposed to be insults, you'll find I don't take them as such.
AllieSF
11-12-2016, 02:32 PM
So, Zooey, I got your original point and wonder do you also post the same comments about trans women and cis women who do the same, and they all do the same thing in various degrees of exhibitionism? Sexual exhibitionism to one may not be that for someone else. Anyway, what one CD did has been done by many others across the gender spectrum. Just look on uTube. Why make such a big deal about this one, or any of them? I still don't get it. We see all kinds of bizarreness in real life all over the world. We see it, maybe shake our heads or laugh and make a comment to those with us, then we forget it and move on. Why do we dwell on it so much here? Contrary to what so many say here, it really does not affect us in the big picture, and we shouldn't let it either.
Maria 60
11-12-2016, 02:44 PM
He's portraying a women but I must say he has pretty big b**ls to do what he's doing. I have to give him credit there, skimpy outfit or not.
ellbee
11-12-2016, 03:15 PM
I'm talking about what they did. This is not a video of your group on vacation that happened to catch some people in the background. This is sexual exhibitionism, with the people in the background being used as unconsenting props in this person's fantasy.
Do you feel it would be equally as wrong if they weren't filming it?
Zooey
11-12-2016, 03:47 PM
No. I would still think it is creepy and inappropriate, but I think when you add the element of video, it becomes a different sort of invasive.
Jill_cd
11-12-2016, 04:18 PM
He's portraying a women but I must say he has pretty big b**ls to do what he's doing. I have to give him credit there, skimpy outfit or not.
Ouch! I found it hard to watch. That being said, I want to blend when out, NOT stand out and have people stare. Maybe she had a devil-may-care attitude and wanted people to stare. Someone's forum signature block says it best: 'It takes a real man to wear a dress'.
silknrachel
11-12-2016, 06:34 PM
Omg, this video sent my anxiety level into the stratosphere.
Nashmau
11-12-2016, 06:43 PM
mhh generally i wouldnt comment on such a thread, but as a german the problem is not how she/he dresses, but where this person chose to do it. it is a rather big ( restingplace i think) near a pretty important (highway) area, at least from what i can see on the video. on these areas there will be prostiution (which btw is legal) and the outfit is exactly what they would wear. so even if the ppl in the video would not see the face and just the back, the first word in there minds would be hooker considering where they are.
an other thing, i thought the reactions were rather civilized, no?
Exris
11-12-2016, 07:11 PM
Nashmau
Interesting - thanks for reminding me about the legality of prostitution in Germany. I'd totally forgotten about that.
So does this video take a suddenly different slant? Is the girl in question... um... projecting and advertising "A rather niche special interest service"?
And the general public's reactions were civilized. Exactly what Id expect in Germany. I havent been there for a few years... but I do get to travel around the EU a fair bit. Germany is a great country with great people. It's just like England... with fewer social issues.
Ressie
11-12-2016, 08:50 PM
A lot of the comments on the youtube comments section are commending her for her bravery. Although others reflect the general consensus here.
docrobbysherry
11-13-2016, 01:19 AM
This really struck a cord with me. Because I took a photo of myself out in public last year one nite on Fremont Street in Vegas. I placed the camera on a closed street stand and took a timer photo of myself. Fremont street, for those that don't know, is a walking only street with enormous amounts of people curb to curb every nite. When the lite shows, live entertainment, and buskers r everywhere.
It wasn't until I saw the photo back home that I noticed the shocked, etc. expressions on the faces of those watching me caught on camera. :eek:
They looked very much like the vanillas in that video. And, that's the main reason I don't go to Burger Kings, Macy's, or any other vanilla day time venues dressed. Because that is how people look at me no matter how conservatively I'm dressed!:sad:
Since some will say I was dressed like a hooker? Well it WAS Vegas. Here's the photo, u can decide for yourself.
268804
Sallee
11-13-2016, 01:34 AM
Well very interesting The outfit is great if your 16 and not a CD. Definitely not blending or passing. but if you are having a good time have at it. That seemed to be the attitude of all so great that is how it should be
Valery L
11-13-2016, 02:28 AM
Yes Sherry, certainly it is because of the clothes, what else could be the reason?...
Rachelakld
11-13-2016, 04:01 AM
I suppose the anti video have a point,
My pop used to always say, "gay men being normalised will encourage men getting married to each other or kissing in public, and society as we know it will slide on down hill very rapidly"........and now we even have cross dressers roaming the streets, what's next, polygamy, men marring their pet dogs, and all that really bad stuff
The world is doomed.....DOOMED!!!
or maybe not so much?
Teresa
11-13-2016, 07:04 AM
Sherry,
The reactions aren't unexpected, seeing Cders in Vegas may happen more than most places but don't forget what you're wearing over the top, not many people have seen molded parts like that, the stares may be partly because they think it's a stunt, some may wonder what gender is wearing it and why .
I'm not condemning what you did just making an observation from the public point of view .
jjjjohanne
11-13-2016, 08:20 AM
Here are my observations about that video:
The image stabilization on her phone is AMAZING!
The people in the video did not mind walking up close just to take a look. I've not encountered such bold civilians.
Standing in line like that for so long would have been very stressful for me!
Did you see the two women at the exit when she went out? Woman A appears to have carefully watched the crossdresser as she walked away. However, woman B never turns around. Woman A did not feel the need to tell woman B.
There were a lot of BMWs in the parking lot, I think.
Did you see the top she was wearing. It looked like a denim top or jacket over another top with shadows and gathering. It's all painted on to a simple pull-over top. I was deceived until I saw the close-up at the end.
Krisi
11-13-2016, 09:47 AM
i wouldn't know, because next to nobody has actually addressed the point I've been making. They keep talking about the implications of appropriate or inappropriate dress, and I'm not talking about their clothes. I'm talking about what they did. This is not a video of your group on vacation that happened to catch some people in the background. This is sexual exhibitionism, with the people in the background being used as unconsenting props in this person's fantasy............
I addressed that point in post #64:
Anyone who thinks they have a right to not be photographed while out in public is hopelessly naïve. You can't go to the bank, shop in a store or pump gas without being photographed or recorded on video. If you are stopped by the police, you are on video. Many private citizens now have "dash cams" in their cars and record everything in front of them while driving.
Ressie
11-13-2016, 11:34 AM
Sherry, you're making other CDs look bad ;) and I love it
Lorileah
11-13-2016, 02:44 PM
While Lorileah said no rules had been broken maybe it should have been posted in the media section. It isn't TG news and while it is from YouTube it is used as reference to a discussion (no different than posting videos or photos from websites in the Clothing section. After further review the ruling stands
Helen_Highwater
11-13-2016, 07:31 PM
an other thing, i thought the reactions were rather civilized, no?
Setting aside the main point of this thread there's one thing about this video that should perhaps be noted. Even though blending in no way shape or form takes place there weren't any pitchforks or burning stakes. Nashmau makes a valid point that no-one reacted with any form of abuse. Granted we don't know what's is their heads.......
BLUE ORCHID
11-13-2016, 07:59 PM
Hi Laura:hugs:, I thought it was another one of , ( THE PEOPLE of WAL*MART ) Videos...:daydreaming:...
TrishaLake
11-13-2016, 08:06 PM
Isn't anyone worried that she went to burger king? That's the part I was not in touch with:) outside of that...I would say dressing down a bit would make it ok....but I would be ok with this
Krisi
11-14-2016, 10:15 AM
She had to go someplace. Why not Burger King?
Rachelakld
11-14-2016, 01:12 PM
McDonalds have nicer coffee than BK plus really nice sour dough sandwitches with chicken & Avo :)
Ressie
11-14-2016, 02:09 PM
I've never been to Germany so I haven't a clue why Burger King. And no, it doesn't bother me. I watched another of her vids where she's walking more in town. Maybe she gets the camera out randomly when out en femme.
deebra
11-14-2016, 02:21 PM
If you can't pass and she doesn't, stay home.
AllieSF
11-14-2016, 03:40 PM
Thanks for all your support Deebra. So looks is all important and the hell with letting be themselves, and of course you are the final judge into who looks good or does not, right?
Krisi
11-14-2016, 06:18 PM
McDonalds have nicer coffee than BK plus really nice sour dough sandwitches with chicken & Avo :)
Given the choice, I would choose McDonalds over Burger King but sometimes Burger King is more convenient.
Regardless, enough people like Burger King to keep it in business.
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