What is your experience?

[Kandi Robbins]

A few things to help set up my question.

No where on this planet do I pass. Never have, never will. But I do present myself well, trying to be classy and dignified and certainly appropriately dressed.

I have only been doing the "full Kandi" for two years, so my experience is limited. I completely understand how it probably was in the olden days (I am quite advanced in years myself).

It seems to me that people are more accepting of my little hobby. I certainly understand that most people are so self-absorbed that they are not even paying attention, but I still believe times are changing (slowly, but changing none-the-less).

I have been out at least 200 times now, probably been to 500 different places, situations, etc... Most recently, through a cherished friendship with a wonderful violinist (whom I met on one of my escapades), I have attended with her (she has been performing) about 5 weddings, dressed as any woman would for a wedding. Each time, I have interacted with either the bride, groom or one or both of their parents and/or the wedding celebrant (while they were thanking my friend for her performance). I even sat on the altar at one of them. Not one single negative reaction, all smiles and warm greetings. Yes, I know they are weddings and people are in a celebratory mood, but still. My most recent wedding was a HUGE dollar affair at The Ritz Carlton as I sat with her and the string quartet (I was the "roadie").

I frequently stop at different bar/restaurants for a bite or a glass of wine. Often times during things like the baseball playoffs (watched the Indians clinch the first round of the playoffs at a bar, in a dress, with a lovely young lady to share laughs with). Regular places, not places I researched to be "CD friendly". Nothing negative and I have more often than not struck up a lively conversation with some one (usually a woman, but not always) near by.

So? Am I right or am I nuts?

[AllieSF]

My experiences are the same as yours, but only include 2 weddings. I am not sure what your last question is about. "Am I right ...?" Thanks for sharing.

[JenniferMBlack]

I have to agree with the more excepting or more tolerant which ever it is. I was out Friday in mixed mode man wearing women's clothes more or less. Not one rude comment odd look or anything negative. I did however get an odd question, at least odd to me. I was asked if I was from Scotland. I was polite said I am of Scottish ancestors bit not personally from there. He didn't seam to be asking in a rude manner or anything derogatory. Just weird because I was wearing a skirt not a kilt or anything that looked like a kilt.

[Lana Mae]

I have been out basically once! I did have one bad look without comment. One confused look. One excuse me in a neutral voice. The rest of the people on this busy city street had no reaction. I did say excuse me once in a low Lana Mae voice. No problems at all!!! It is good to get out! Hugs Lana Mae

[IamWren]

I've never been out in a situation where I've ever interacted with anyone nor where anyone really saw me that well so I can't answer question but I am really curious about a couple of things and maybe JenniferAtHome can give her take on my questions, too.
But I'm wondering Kandi about a couple of things when you present as a female: do you try to use a female voice or just figure (as you said above) you're not passing or fooling anyone so you just use your male voice?

What about female mannerisms, posture and a female walk? I'm really curious if attempting to impersonate a woman as best you can helps with others accepting or if not trying to emulate female mannerisms and a voice and not hiding the fact that you're a man in a dress helps that.

[Stephanie47]

I've been out for evening strolls, but, choose to not interact with humanoids with the exception of Halloween. I think you are fortunate to have positive experiences and no negatives. It only takes one person to wreck your day or week. Sometimes in Seattle, which is suppose to be a tolerant city with very tolerant neighborhoods, things cam be unpleasant. If you look like you belong and act with total decorum I believe most people will just pass you by.

[Allisa]

Never been to a wedding expressing my femme self so no reference point to comment on, and do not go to bars or clubs so again no reference, but have been out to other venues in full femme and only a few instances of non acceptance and very vocal abuse but survived. As to your question, yes and no. Maybe a little loony? after all we all must be a bit nutty for going through what we do knowingly.

[Kandi Robbins]

I'm wondering about a couple of things when you present as a female: do you try to use a female voice or just figure (as you said above) you're not passing or fooling anyone so you just use your male voice?

What about female mannerisms, posture and a female walk?

I mostly use my male voice, unless it is a short response, like a thank you to a cashier or something like that. I believe I walk and use the mannerism of a woman, for me it just feels natural when dressed that way. I personally am not trying to pass, I am simply trying to blend in. I've been pretty lucky to get people to just buy into "me".

My wedding stories are simply an example, I am curious if you find people more accepting in general.

[Wyomingal1]

I tend to agree with the views here that ether people don't care or they are just not wanting to say anything in fear of retribution.
I was out today in fem drab. I had on pants, shirt, and pink nail polish no wig or makeup on. As I was doing my laundry at the truck stop. I am sure people saw my nails but they did not say anything just wanted to say hi to my puppy.

[JustJoni]

I've been out once, to a an LGBT club on the last night of my honeymoon. My wife and I walked to the venue just over two blocks. Everything went really well, smiles from people we passed, a "Have a good time, ladies," from the desk clerk at the hotel. The best was when they were checking ID at the club. We had to technically become 'members' via the cover, and had to produce state ID. The young man taking my ID, wearing a fair bit of makeup himself, kept looking back and forth before handing it back to me. After he did, he leaned in and with a big encouraging smile said, "Have a good time...you are rocking it!!"

But that's the sum-total of my outside experience, except for McDonald's drive-thru a few nights earlier. The cashier simply said, "Thanks ladies," to my wife and I.

[Tina June]

Kandi -
I am like you. I don't pass either, but that does not stop me from going out. No make up, no fem voice, growing my hair out (in that "OMG my hair looks Terrible stage!)
I have had NO bad experiences.

[ellbee]

It's been my experience that most people most of the time prefer not to cause a scene, or be considered rude, or end up in jail, or end up in the hospital, or lose their job, or have their wife/GF pissed at them, or have a falling-out with friends, etc., etc. -- and so, they tend to publicly keep their mouths shut at the time about all kinds of things. ;)

[Dana44]

Kandi, yeah you are aright. Yeah when we o out we have had several conversations with waitress. They seem really friendly. So yes you are right.

[Shely]

Kandi, Sounds like a lot of fun and if i had more nerve i'd give it a try. Who knows maybe I'll get there.

[Rogina B]

I am "out" and really out everywhere,every day. I have to interact with anyone as necessary to do whatever. I come at this response from an out transwoman point of view and I think we are being accepted as having the right to be ourselves. We are "special" and will always be remembered and discussed..So always be polite and be your best !

[Elizabeth G]

I don't have to much experience or but when I have been the response has been indifferent at worst and quite positive at best.

[Rachael Leigh]

Kandi yes for me I've had mostly very positive experiences while being out just in normal everyday venues, like malls and grocery
stores and I've even eaten out once just by myself. All very positive experiences.

I've found that as you say nobody really seems
to care much even once they know I'm male dressed like a women and I'm sure even as I walk they might see a tall women but may suspect not but I do try and blend as much as I can.
Like you though I think most just take it as a part of our changing culture and I too hope it's becoming more accpting

[dolovewell]

Kandi, this is an interesting thread

I myself have been out many times dressed up. I too do not pass. For the most part, I have no trouble being out dressed. Where I run into trouble, is when I am out somewhere that is crowded/busy with a lot of people.

If I am in a store like ULTA or Kohl's, the stores are big enough and less crowded enough to where I can keep tabs on who is in there and where, so if I do get stared at, I at least know where the stare is coming from.

However in a busy place, say for example a mall on a weekend, there are just too many people coming from all different directions to where I can not keep track. So I get really intimidated and afraid and overwhelmed. How do you handle crowds? Do you get stared at at all?

I have not had a bad experience in almost 2 years but its always in the back of my mind, especially when I am around a lot of people. I also think that my youth works against me here. With older crossdressers, younger people are probably less likely to pick on them because of the whole "respect your elders" angle. But for me, I am still young so I feel like younger audiences and people around my age will be more likely to react to me in a negative manner. So when I am out I usually dread seeing "swag bro" types and try to avoid them.

[DIANEF]

I also think that my youth works against me here. With older crossdressers, younger people are probably less likely to pick on them because of the whole "respect your elders" angle. .

On the other hand youth can work in your favour dolovewell. 25 years ago I could probably have come as close to passing as you obviously do, but time takes it toll and there's no chance now. In my limited excursions outside, mainly in my car, I've had no reactions whatsoever, though that may change as I venture further afield.

[AllieSF]

Dolo,

If you can handle the smaller crowds than the bigger ones are just as easy assuming that you are not the center of attention, which I would guess that you are not. Your big problem is probably that you try "to keep track" of everyone. Why? Go about your business, head held high and don't pay attention to anyone. Of course, if you feel that you are in a not so safe area, keep your eyes and ears at attention. If you are continually looking around at the mall, you probably are making way too much eye contact with perfect and harmless strangers. Your self confidence usually comes over time as you finally realize that no one really notices and you are OK being you then and there.

I am not so sure that younger people are more respectful of us older ladies. I actually think that they are worse than when I was much younger. They don't care who they hurt or have fun with. Good luck and have fun.

[dolovewell]

I just feel really overwhelmed in larger crowds because I feel like the center of attention just by being there. A 6 foot tall crossdresser is going to stand out. I feel like every eyeball in the vicinity is on me and its a lot of pressure to deal with.

I know that is not the case, I know not every eyeball is on me and to most people, I am not even a speck in their eye and they aren't even aware of me, but I am a pessimist in this regard.

Yesterday I went to the mall, I was fine inside JC Penney and Macy's and individual stores, but whenever I stepped out into the main mall area I felt completely overwhelmed. I can handle 1 or 2 people staring at me but when I am out in crowds I feel like 30 people are staring at me at the same time even if thats not the case. I dress normally, I don't wear anything that would draw attention. Yesterday I wore a pink sweater, blue jeans, and brown boots with my beige purse with a peachy pink lip - nothing out of the ordinary at all that would stand out.

[lingerieLiz]

I wear mostly women's casual clothes or have been. I've been in situations where it is obvious that I'm wearing a bra and have boobs (I don't wear forms) I wear tops which are easy enough to tell they are women's. I haven't had any backlash. Neighbors like me. Over the years going back to the early 60s I've found that most people accept you if you are friendly and like them. Went to a party one night wearing the same silk top as another guest. She joked about it as if it was two women had done it.

I do get women who glide their hand over my straps to verify.

[Tracii G]

Dolo their are vast number of younger people that have no respect for their elders much less themselves.

[Jenniferathome]

My same experience. Go where the normals go and no issues.

My wife believes that the normals see me as transexual rather than a cross dresser. I think that's a reasonable theory as "cross dresser" doesn't hit the radar as easily as transexual. Certainly, none see me as a genetic woman. I would bet that when people see you Kandi, they think "trans" until you set them straight. By then, you come across as "normal" except for the cross dressing.:)

- - - Updated - - -

Dolo, you're just thinking too much. If you're looking for trouble, you usually find it. Walk about like you would in guy mode and it's easy peasy.

[suzanne]

I'm a Kandi Fan! I go out, not as often as you, but in the same condition; presenting as well as I can and being polite and respectful. I have never had any negative feedback and quite a lot of positive.

Crazy? Not on your life! I'm thinking that when you started going out you were being courageous, and it has since morphed into genuine confidence. Bravo, and many more happy outings!

[immindy]

I go out often as a woman . Maybe I am in a bit of a different category as I am in fact transgender and on hormones but do not live full time as a woman. I am not 100% passable as a woman and suspect I will never be unless I get a bit of facial surgery. But back to the subject at hand . I seem to get very few, if any, strange looks or double takes anymore. So yes, people seem more accepting . I think a lot of it has to do with Caitlyn Jenner and others that have come out . People just think "o I think that's a transgender person " ( even if you consider yourself just a crossdresser or whatever). No big deal to them.

[Michelle Crossfire]

Kandi,

You continue to amaze. Always enjoy reading about your escapades and adventures. Wish i was able to do it to the extent that you can, but life occasionally comes knocking and i have to work. Oh well. I think that i may pass from a distance. but due to my build, probably don't pass. The voice is a tricky thing. I do put the effort into trying, and have help from the wife on fashion and the like, But like you, i enjoy the hobby, as you and my wife put it. Keep up the trail blazing and maybe we will be able to get together on an adventure somewhere.

[IleneD]

I've only gone outside the house fully dressed a handful of times. I'm not certain, but it may technically violate the informal DADT policy of the house. Each time it was a wonderful thrill, which is dangerous for someone like me who thrives on brazen audacity.

I've never had a bad time or ugly encounter. The closest thing was startling a mother with 4 kids as I stepped out of the ULTA store after a makeover. It didn't take long for her to figure out the 6'3" woman in heels and a dress probably wasn't a real woman, and her kids were definitely old enough to figure it out for themselves too. She did an immediate left turn on the sidewalk and scurried her flock aside. No comments, not even from the kids; but an obvious encounter.

Everywhere else has been great.
I've had waitresses buy me my drinks. (Sat at a sidewalk cafe and had dinner alone while traveling).
Spent a lovely evening drinking wine with a woman stranger in a B&B courtyard. And yes, other people and couples strolled by; some paying attention (mostly women) and some not (mostly men, some feigning ignorance of my presence, I believe).
Went to breakfast dressed (beautiful full length blue summer dress) with a personal chef. That went well.
The one shopping trip to Macy's I took was interesting. The Tall Girl did, in fact, attract attention and I had at least 3 SA's approach to ask if I needed assistance (check me out).
My favorite stop was to my local cannabis dispensary (live in CO). The girls know me there, and it was the first time they'd seen me even close to being "dressed". We all had fun with it.

[ellbee]

My wife believes that the normals see me as transexual rather than a cross dresser. I think that's a reasonable theory as "cross dresser" doesn't hit the radar as easily as transexual.

...

...they think "trans"...


I hate to use this term, but if one doesn't look like an "obvious CD'er," then I believe your wife is probably correct, that many out there wouldn't necessarily think "CD," but instead see some of us as TS.

Honestly, if not "obvious CD'er," then I'm guessing many simply think in terms of either "gay," "drag queen" or "Caitlyn Jenner," as that's pretty much the limited extent of their knowledge/experience with this kind of stuff.


Besides, what guy would intentionally go about in Vanilla Land doing vanilla things while presenting as female & doing a half-way decent job at dressing like a fairly normal chick? :strugglin :laughing:

[sometimes_miss]

OK, coming down from the clouds to reality, most people just can't be bothered and just want to get along with their own lives. Having worked with the public now for >40 years, I've come across crossdressers more than a few times, and while the folks I worked with made comments about them to each other, no one said anything to the crossdresser themselves. So it's not like people aren't noticing; it's much more likely that they're simply not saying anything about it. Remember, all those 'people of walmart' pictures, and no one said anything to those folks, either.

Very often, people will see what they want to see, and believe what they want to believe. This is best evidenced by the pictures posted by crossdressers online, where they picked and chose the best possible combination of clothes, pose, lighting and situation, and then tell themselves that they pass.

[ellbee]

sometimes_miss,

At the same time, I think some people, oftentimes it's non-SO GG's or certain gay males or something when it is, are genuinely relatively cool & perhaps even fascinated with it. There are some open-minded folks out there. Heck, one type might even consider it "trendy" or whatever to be accepting, and possibly even "force" themselves to be so.

Not to say all, of course, as there are some who are vehemently against what we do & who we are. I realize some here might not believe it, but there is some actual hate & disgust & what-not out there. Don't think it's not real or simply exaggerated.

And for those in the middle, they might not particularly care for it or agree with it, but not enough to actually do or say anything to our faces at the time, as I mentioned in my post on the 1st page. However, behind our backs might be a different story. Remember, we don't have eyes in the back of our heads, or perfect mind-reading abilities, or super-human hearing, or have the opportunity to be a fly on the wall at some point afterwards.

[Kandi Robbins]

How do you handle crowds? Do you get stared at at all?

With older crossdressers, younger people are probably less likely to pick on them because of the whole "respect your elders" angle. But for me, I am still young so I feel like younger audiences and people around my age will be more likely to react to me in a negative manner. So when I am out I usually dread seeing "swag bro" types and try to avoid them.

For me, it's the more, the merrier! I find I can easily disappear into a crowd. You hit on something here though. I am older and at some point in your life, you stop caring about what others think of you (beside loved ones, of course). You've lived a great portion of your life, you've had experiences and you come to the realization that this is the only shot at life you are going to get, you play with the cards you are dealt and you smile broadly as you are hypnotized by the click of your heels on the marble floor! As long as you are smart about where you are, you really should have no problems. Plus, frankly, I can handle myself if need be. I've been places and done things that foster a survival instinct.

- - - Updated - - -


So it's not like people aren't noticing; it's much more likely that they're simply not saying anything about it.

Oh, I know full well, I am noticed. It's just that I haven't been bothered. I would suspect it hasn't always been that way, but I can't speak from personal experience.

[Krisi]

Someday I'm going to hide a video camera in my purse and record people's reactions as I walk in public. I remember walking in a nearly deserted mall (it was just about closing time) and a middle aged lady was walking towards me. She gave me a really nasty look. Obviously, I didn't pass that night, at least to her. That incident was enough to send me back home. I've learned a lot since then and I might fool her the next time.

When I go out, my goal is not being accepted by the public as a crossdresser, it's being seen by the public as a woman. The problem of course is that we don't know what people are thinking as we pass by.

[Judith96a]

Hi Dolo


I too do not pass.
...
If I am in a store like ULTA or Kohl's, the stores are big enough and less crowded enough to where I can keep tabs on who is in there and where, so if I do get stared at, I at least know where the stare is coming from.

However in a busy place, say for example a mall on a weekend, there are just too many people coming from all different directions to where I can not keep track. So I get really intimidated and afraid and overwhelmed. How do you handle crowds? Do you get stared at at all?


If your avatar is anything to go by then you have a lot less trouble 'passing' than the vast majority of us cross-dressers, certainly less trouble than me!
Any woman with your height and figure is going to attract attention. Tall girls, whether CD, TS or GG don't skip under the radar! I'm 6'1" and love wearing 4" heels and I have a GG friend who is 6'3". Both of us get stared at, for different reasons. The important thing is how you deal with the staring.

Quit trying to monitor the reaction of everyone around you. Unless you are rehearsing to be the next Jane Bond it's a waste of time and will only drive you nuts (and do your blood pressure no good at all)! Yes, you do need to keep an eye out for the groups of bored teenagers but otherwise, while they may be curious, amused or disapproving, most people are far too busy with themselves to be any threat to you.

Besides, attempting to monitor everyone around you will make you look 'shifty' and therefore more likely to attract unwanted attention from anyone whose job it is to be interested in security!

So, head up, chest out and go about your business! And if you should meet someone's stare, smile sweetly and be on your way (regardless of what variety of fandango your tummy may be doing).
And, yes it's easier said than done! That's where age brings its advantages - I.e. confidence via experience!
Relax and enjoy!

[Beverley Sims]

The more you go out the less self conscious you become, with this comes confidence and attitude.

Interacting with others helps in reinforcing your personna.

[dolovewell]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll just keep at it and hopefully gain the confidence I need when out in larger crowds.

I am completely fine in less crowded settings. I just melt under pressure of the larger crowds.

[Valery L]

Since April when I started to going out dressed I have done many things that I never thought I could do. At first I was out with bad choices of outfit, poor makeup skills and without a wig, so I was clearly a boy in a dress, it was only a couple of times before I obtained my first wig, but I did not have any bad experience even when I interacted with SA's, vendors, a cab driver, and one girl who lost the same bus than me. After that, my confidence improved when my makeup skills got better and I had a wig, from that moment I improved each week until I reached a decent level of confidence that has been maintained until now.

I have been dressed in the mall, in supermarkets, in the campus including computer labs, food courts, library, many crowded places, I always take the bus even when it is too crowded that everyone stares at you when you enter the bus and you don't have where to sit, I have been in restaurants, bars, church. Last weekend I received communion for the first time while dressed. I have interacted with people at the church. I have been hit by men, one of them almost rape me... , but besides that, it has been amazing, I cannot recall any bad experience besides some stares which are not common (not the stares that I can notice), I have actually been seen by people who know me without being recognized, and I have tried to do most of my normal activities while dressed. I always use the female fitting rooms and bathrooms and have never had a bad experience. Well, that's all I can remember at this time. To answer the other question, I try to present completely female, I love to walk and to act as a woman, everything comes natural to me while dressed including the mannerisms. And my voice is just an "effeminate" version of my regular voice, I think it sucks and I hate to talk while dressed, but when I have to do it I am fine with it.

[Rogina B]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll just keep at it and hopefully gain the confidence I need when out in larger crowds.


I can cure you quickly ! Get up on a stage in front of them all ! Never will you be so shy again !

[Rachel Anne]

Other than some dry, dry hands, and a awful voice, I'm willing to try one of these days. It really is on my "bucket list"

When I look in the rear view mirror, it's hard not to see what I want to see, pink fog and all, but I'd hope I'm good for within 20'...maybe 18' on a good dress day .

That first step is a doozy, though.

[drobert44]

Put on bra, panties, and wig for first time. Guess I shoulda shaved off the moustache? I had my T girl friend to help, tho. She is totally out, has been for several years. Went to a formal dance at Peoria TG Society meet; very nice and polite people.