What does being a man mean to you?

[Lucy23]

Ilene's "Like I was in a play about Me" and Joyce's "An Epiphany" threads got me thinking about the eponymous question.

I've noticed that you girls here speak of a spark that shines in their eyes, that everything clicks together when en femme. That unless dressed, you feel as a fraud, an observer, or an act you put forward for others to see.

I for one have never felt that way. For me being a man (male) is part of who I am and I like it; I see my dressing as a part that too. And as such, I have never developed a female persona, nor have I felt the need to.

Therefore, I would like to ask you and understand your perspective on it. Does being a man (male) mean anything to you? What about the society's expectations? Is it a hindrance or a gift? Can you say that there is joy in your male life? Is your life bland? Please, feel free to share anything related that comes to your mind.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

I have some really elegant man clothes, I can spend an hour getting dressed. Just don't have the chance to do it very often. I get to wear at least 3 different suits this Christmas incl a black dinner jacket, can't wait. Must be hell having to do that every day to go to work though. Only wish my family weren't so darned conservative- I'd still much rather go Pastel Goth... *sobs quietly*

[dolovewell]

I feel like being a man means being a man.

My male life and female persona could not be any more different.

I only dress up a couple times a week at most. Lately its just been once a week. The other 6 days of the week I am a man.

When I am a man I guess the best word to describe me would be masculine and an alpha male. I am not sensitive at all. I am pretty straight forward, call it like I see it, politically conservative and don't really have a soft side. I am not really emotionally driven. I lift at the gym regularly and maintain low body fat. I have a 6 pack and chiseled jaw line and all of that. I do manly things like watch sports and work on my car. I am 100% committed to my career right now and currently have no interest at all in any kind of relationship with women.

I embrace my masculinity instead of trying to run from it. Dressing up is just me taking a break from being the ultra masculine alpha male type I am, not trying to run away from it or escape it. I like being a man, I like my masculinity. I wish we had more men these days embrace their masculinity. There is nothing toxic about it.

So to answer your question, being a man means embracing the fact you are a man and embracing the roles, traits and attributes that make men, men.

[Louise DK]

I actually really like being a man. I do a lot of very manly things. Im a family man. I work in the auto industry. I have restored several vintage and classic cars, and currently Im building a hotrod. I race my vintage British motorcycle. I play in a rockabilly band, where I get to wear some really sharp, elegant and classic man clothes, wich I like very much. Thats what being a man means to me, and I have absolutely no problem with being a man.
On the other hand, I wish I would be able to embrace my feminine side a little more. I love dressing up as a woman, and I find it puts me in some sort of balance. But I dont go out, mainly because my wife wont allow it, and I really would like to do that. I think it has something to do with confirming that my whole person belongs in the world. So I have more of a problem with finding a space for my feminine side.

Oh. I think you could call me a stereotypical male. Jeesh

[Rachael Leigh]

For me my male side is different then my fem side however I'm not what you would say is a mans man. I've never been into things such as hunting or fishing I really don't even relate to those that do, I've always had a thing for shopping.
I can remember as a kid I loved it when we would go to a mall or such things. As a man I do have a sensitive side and have
never been afaide to cry even, but will hold that back because men don't cry.
So the question what does it mean, I'm not sure I mean if I had been born a girl I'm sure for me it would have been better
but I don't dwell on that and accept what I have and my feminine side

[Laurana]

I was born a man and I'll die a man.

Aside from that it doesn't mean anything.

[suzanne]

I am no fan at all of the currently favored hyper masculine macho image of manliness, typically embodied by GI Joe, the NFL, Clint Eastwood or the Marlboro man. It is unhealthy that our young men and women are subliminally told that this is what a man is like. The best image for a young boy to aspire to is the "good dad". He changes diapers, sits up with sick kids so mom can sleep, plays trucks or dolls whichever way his kids want to and doesn't tell them this way or that is inappropriate.

Me, I'm a Gemini and so am I. I understand the twins Castor and Pollux to be brother and sister the same way I am. One is incomplete without the other participating at least partly in everything I do. As a large, physically strong male, I have experienced the privilege of being the alpha's alpha, but haven't enjoyed the expectations placed on me to take command. With my femininity coming to the fore, I am much more at peace with who I am. It's still about the clothes, but much less than it used to be. Now, when I refer to myself using feminine pronouns I automatically feel more centered and stable, even in guy mode. When I have a dress on, it's definitely better, of course. But nowadays, my femme side understands that there are times when I must act my alpha male role and she can be patient until I can get back to my dress collection.

[Bonnie Chan]

Being a man:
- Physically - I feel rather neutral about my body. I am okay with it, neither like nor hate it. I just accept this as a card I have and I'll stick with it for the rest of my life.
- Socially - There're some perspective that I don't like and like. Not sure what I like specifically though, mostly I just accept whatever society assigns men's role to me. However there's a thing I don't like such as men's expectation to be strong, have to start flirting with girl first (I'm shy with girls and can't really flirt), can't cry, men can't be sensitive, and so on with typical "masculine" traits.

Like dolovewell, I accept and embrace the masculinity I have. But I just don't like the social expectation that it's bad for men to have some other traits (and the same goes with women too I guess.) Ideally, there should be no social expectation in the beginning and let all human regardless of gender/race to define who they are truly without worrying about bad consequences.

- Bonnie

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Lucy:hugs:, Being a macho guy and Crossdressing means that I have the best of both worlds.

I take pride in my appearance in both modes...:daydreaming:...

[Ellie Summer]

The best image for a young boy to aspire to is the "good dad". He changes diapers, sits up with sick kids so mom can sleep, plays trucks or dolls whichever way his kids want to and doesn't tell them this way or that is inappropriate.

Suzanne, you hit a lot of good points and I think this is the part that resonates the most with me. I've thought about this topic a lot over the years and have thought I knew the answers, scrapped it all and started over again a few times now. When I think of who the manliest man I know is, I think of my brother. He in no way fits the marlboro man type. Doesn't hunt/fish, ride a motorcycle, collect guns, etc. He's actually a city boy, but he's a damn good husband and father to his little girl. He loves those girls to death and would do anything to make their lives better. Yes, that's what young men should aspire to be, and not the man who leaves the wife at home to do "womanly" things.
I do a lot of things that society might call "manly", but I generally try to avoid gender terms at this point in my life. I love camping, rock climbing, working with ropes and harnesses, getting covered in mud, spending a lot of time in the woods. My heart rate rises with the roar of a jeeps engine, I love working with tools and fixing things. I'm proud of the work I've done inside my house and out, I chop wood like a lumber jack without a shirt on. But I also take a lot of crap for things that would normally be considered "feminine". I don't care, it's who I am and as far as I'm concerned it's advantageous to me to see life from a broader spectrum. But women can also like camping, jeeps, runnin around in the mud. Are they "manly"? I prefer to just think that we're all people, good or bad.

[Becky Blue]

I am not unhappy being a guy, I enjoy being a father and husband a lot. But I am not into manly pursuits, I don't like going out with the boys. I am mostly indifferent about my body which is slim, but hate my body hair. I think a lot of my though processes and behaviors are more female. So to me being a man is what I am on the exterior.

[Georgina]

I am happy being a man and that is all I am. I love the fact that I can convert a standard motor vehicle into a competition version. I like my circle of friends and am mostly happy with my lot. I also love women's clothes and wear a skirt or dress every evening. This evening I started loading windows into a computer in my male clothes and, after washing, finished it off in a skirt suit.

[Valery L]

It means that I am a meaningless mortal, an advanced but still primitive mammal who does not understand his purpose and which is forced to interact on a daily basis with other members of the same species in a primitive and hostile manner.

[Tracii G]

I really don't like my male side so I try not to be that person.
I wouldn't consider my male side as hyper masculine just raw with a bad attitude.
If I am in 50/50 mode or 'tween' mode My female side is the one I let out.
I may be looked at as male by the people around me but I don't feel like one.

[Kiwi]

I too don't like the way people describe things as "manly". I'm a man (well, male at least) and I don't do many of those things. I'm a vegetarian, I don't drink, I don't care for sports, cars are just something to get from a to b, I will tear up during a sad part of a movie, I am a house husband. Maybe that means my personality is more feminine, but I prefer to think that I am me and not worry what society thinks.

[Lucy23]

Thank you for your answers. And especially that you echoed positive traits men can aspire to.

A reccuring theme I've noticed is that many of you, and myself included, relish what society might call "manly", to borrow Ellie's words. However, I guess it's not only my imagination that to deviate from that image in any way means the same society will scold you. It's as if there is only a narrow scope where a man can fit; we are not allowed to be soft, to enjoy dressing, etc. It looks like a "true" man is better defined by what he shouldn't do. Heck, I've been asked if I'm gay for my colourful choice of trousers.

Although, it's good that it hasn't stopped you from being you.

I really like what Bonnie and Ellie hinted at; that the social expectations of both genders might hurt us in the long run, that men and women might enjoy the same things and the very fact will not diminish anyone's being man or woman. It's a shame...


It means that I am a meaningless mortal, an advanced but still primitive mammal who does not understand his purpose and which is forced to interact on a daily basis with other members of the same species in a primitive and hostile manner.
I take it you don't like being man...? But why forced? Do you feel that there is only a single way for a man to interact with others?


I really don't like my male side so I try not to be that person.
May I ask why?

[BjorkCD]

My two sents is that the most mascuiine thing you can do is to dress up was woman :o

[Bonnie Chan]

For anybody who says you don't like being a man because your male side has a bad attitude, have you ever considered ignoring what the society would think of you and just embrace whatever "feminine" traits that you think it's your true self with your male side? For example, why is it wrong to be a man with sensitive heart who cries a lot when watching a touching movie? Why is it wrong for a man to not like sports and like to knit instead? Why is it wrong for a man to be considerate and sincere with other people?
If someone don't like your personality, then they're not your friends. There'll be people out there somewhere who will appreciate you for being sincere, or maybe for you being able to repair clothes for your male friends.

I personally don't care much what society think of me anymore. The most important thing is I need to be confident with my true self and as long as it's causing no harm, nobody else has a reason to look down on me. If they do, then I look down upon them too for being narrow minded.

Perhaps this may be helpful to somebody who says don't like being a man. I think if you open your mind more and don't care much what other people think, then you'll be able to be happy with yourself, regardless of what gender/race/age/culture you may be in.

- Bonnie

[Lana Mae]

I am a male and that is that! I am daddy to my two adult children! They are accepting but do not want to see daddy in a dress! To my sister in law and my brother in law, I am their deceased sister's husband!! Yes I am a male and as someone said I will die male!! But there is no harm in being feminine from time to time!!!! Hugs Lana Mae

[Periwinkle]

I really like being a man, but I'm just not all that manly. I've always been a pretty quiet and sensitive person. I'm really small and thin, but I like the way I look. It makes me look really cute in baggy sweaters. I like the outdoors a lot, but the only things you'll see me doing out there are reading, bike riding, and photo taking.

I'd embrace my masculinity if I had much of it. I definitely embrace being male. And I'm not even necessarily feminine, as all the things I really enjoy doing are done by many people of different genders. I guess I'm just very ambiguous. But I'm alright with that. Everything I do is completely authentic to who I am as a person. Because of that, I don't feel the need to have a female persona. When I'm dressed, I'm still the same person, just much prettier.

[Tracii G]

May I ask why?

My male side has a checkered and violent past that I wish wasn't a part of me.
My female side helps to keep him in check so I let her run the controls LOL

[Michelle Girl]

What does being a man mean to me? Not a lot. It was just a random accident of birth. I'm neither happy nor unhappy about it. Neither proud nor ashamed.

[Lucy23]

I think if you open your mind more and don't care much what other people think, then you'll be able to be happy with yourself, regardless of what gender/race/age/culture you may be in.
Sometimes I think that men have received too much bad rep for all the hardships in the world, and in the process men are afraid to see, or even admit for that matter, what is good about them. And, I almost feel bad for writing this, but women are responsible for their share of bad things too.

Yes, it is in "our" nature to fight and be violent etc., but that's a pretty narrow description if you ask me. That same energy can be harnessed and be used to amazing things. I mean just look at the feats you have posted here. Masculinity can be a lot things.

[Bonnie Chan]

Eh hmm, Lucy, I'm not sure I quite understand what you're trying to say here. Could you help elaborate more, maybe give some example to relate to?

[Lucy23]

I was thinking about why some of the post were in a rather negative tone, as if the bad is all there is to a man, you know, wars, patriarchy, violence, crime, oppression, all men want is sex, men are immature boors. When I was growing up I heard that if women run the world, all would be well. As if only the female part can be good. When I trained martial arts I was asked why I wanted to fight and that violence is bad. Certainly it is, but try telling that to those who assault you.

Maybe I've jump to a conclusion that the implied negative tone is a result of that a little bit prematurely. If that is the case, I'm really sorry. And maybe it's just me, my occupation (I work in the media), and where I live in that just distort my view of the world. But I'm tired of those stereotypes.

I couldn't shake the feeling that in order to be good you have to shed masculinity. I've tried to suppress that and it led to sadness and depression. Only after I've become more comfortable with who I am I could see that strength could be an asset used in many good ways. That's why I was surprised in a good way that the majority of the posts were positive, and echoed good traits about being a man.

And again, I mean no disrespect to anyone, I was just trying to understand. That's why I'm asking these questions, to gain perspective.

Bonnie, is that better?

[Fiona123]

The label "man" is really innaccurate for me. "Man" implies that I am at one end of the gender binary as well as issues of patriarchy, machismo, and all that. When I dress I am feminine. I have no interest in being a man at least in the classical sense.

[Lily Catherine]

Physically I am undeniably male, possessing a Y-chromosome.
Socially I was raised a son, a brother from someone else's mother, and only recently an uncle. Whether I end up a father is another story. I doubt it both ways.
I 'earned my manhood' (an abstract, almost vapid notion) in conscription, becoming one of many enlisted men - a man in the "other ranks" sense.
For now, I still respond to 'dude'/'bro'/'man' because that is how I appear to those who know me.

Incidentally, I am quite a car geek, although that won't change regardless of how I present, or even if I find transition the most ideal option. I do not take kindly to the heavily fetishised image of 'car girls', but then again I don't take kindly either to the conduct of many 'car guys' either.

[Teresa]

Lucy,
From my age group being born male meant doing the thing society expected of you, having a girlfriend , getting married, buying a house and having a family, hopefully get a reasonable job. To me eventually it's a straight jacket I want to shake off, my Cding started at 8-9 years and was a continuous feeling I had to live with along side my male life .
I don't hate the male life I've lead but I know there's part on my life I've missed and now I'm trying to live it, I enjoy being dressed as a woman as much if not more now and if I had separated I would have modelled my life around living dressed .
To me now being a man means doing certain things I no longer have an interest in , my female side is far more appealing , I've done my duty as a man now I want to enjoy the other side I've discovered.

[Valery L]

I take it you don't like being man...? But why forced? Do you feel that there is only a single way for a man to interact with others?

LOL, my answer was more general, not related with gender. Maybe it was the answer to "what does being a human mean to you?"


When I was growing up I heard that if women run the world, all would be well. As if only the female part can be good.

I think the opposite. Men build the civilization, it has many flaws, but if the species has certain level of civilization is thanks to men.

[IamWren]

This is a fascinating thread and something I've been pondering for years. To be honest, it's because I'm not sure I've ever felt like a man. And I guess it's because of what society and the constructs that have conveyed (up until recently) that a man is tall, strong, dominant, unemotional, unwavering, strict, and a whole host of other adjectives that describe what many might ascribe to the "alpha male". So for that I don't feel like a man in the way most of society views a man.

Now I am most certainly male. I have broad shoulders. I am relatively strong for my short stature. I have facial hair and a somewhat low, booming voice. But those things simply make me male, not necessarily a "man".

I think the definition of what being a man is, is a social construct and as such changes with generations. The idea of what a man was in the 40s is quite different from what was thought of in the 80s and an even greater contrast from what we see from millenials who are in their early 20s and what their idea of what a man is.

I did a search on "what does it mean to be a man" and got some interesting articles that will give some food for thought especially how it relates to dressing. However, I know Lucy's original post asked for our opinion by asking:


Does being a man (male) mean anything to you? What about the society's expectations? Is it a hindrance or a gift? Can you say that there is joy in your male life? Is your life bland? Please, feel free to share anything related that comes to your mind.

1 yes, it does but the meaning of a man and male are two different things to me.
2 I think society's expectations are a construct and place an unusually difficult gauntlet to traverse without becoming an asshole in the process.
3 I think being a male provides ease and privilege that women don't have. In that regard it is both a hinderance and gift.
4 Yes, there is much joy my life as male.
5 Yes, my life is pretty bland but I don't think it has anything to do with being male. I think it has to do with being an accountant.

[IleneD]

Great responses on this thread. I am amazed, and learning a lot.
Looking back (below) on my own thread, I got the Question all wrong. It wasn't about what makes ME a man, IMO. It was about the concept of Manhood and masculinity.
Need to think about this even DEEPER. Ignore my other self descriptive response (I'll leave it up). I need a do-over.
I'll get back with you.
Thanks and hugs. Great question.

[Lucy23]

Looking back (below) on my own thread, I got the Question all wrong. It wasn't about what makes ME a man, IMO. It was about the concept of Manhood and masculinity.
Not necessarily. The original gist of the question was aimed at you and the people here as well. The fact that our ideas, experiences (flying carrier jets? wow!) and lives are reflected with some general idea of what it feels like being a man is probably natural. Each of us have something to share; there are as many definitions of manhood and masculinity as there are men. Awaiting your new insights!


LOL, my answer was more general, not related with gender. Maybe it was the answer to "what does being a human mean to you?" I think the opposite. Men build the civilization, it has many flaws, but if the species has certain level of civilization is thanks to men.
My bad, what else can I say. The perks of having this conversation over the internet? :) And of course it has flaws. What doesn't. And there are men who try their damnedest to make the world better, risk their lives protecting others or take hard jobs to earn the bread. But somehow this fact is taken for granted or gets overshadowed by all the bad. Anyway, my two cents :)


Now I am most certainly male. I have broad shoulders. I am relatively strong for my short stature. I have facial hair and a somewhat low, booming voice. But those things simply make me male, not necessarily a "man".

I think the definition of what being a man is, is a social construct and as such changes with generations.

I did a search on "what does it mean to be a man" and got some interesting articles that will give some food for thought especially how it relates to dressing.
From what I have read over the years many have said in one way or another what there is a difference between man and male. As in to become a man you have to do something (hence the initiation rituals in the past), that you have to gain masculinity. It looks like languages themselves somehow reflect that too in certain ways - English and my native language certainly do - the common phrase "man up" comes to mind. Sue, have you heard about the website called Art of Manliness? And what have you learned from the articles?

[dolovewell]

I was thinking about why some of the post were in a rather negative tone, as if the bad is all there is to a man, you know, wars, patriarchy, violence, crime, oppression, all men want is sex, men are immature boors. When I was growing up I heard that if women run the world, all would be well. As if only the female part can be good. When I trained martial arts I was asked why I wanted to fight and that violence is bad. Certainly it is, but try telling that to those who assault you.


I work in the media too, and especially living in Portland I see first hand feminists who take feminism too far and practically are anti-male bigots, which fuel the fire of the sentiments and attitudes you listed above. Sadly that brand of feminism is starting to leak a bit and become a bit too mainstream. I have no problem with feminists, but once you take it to the level of basically becoming a male hater and sexist against men, you have gone too far.

[AnnieMac]

Well, like many mentioned above, I also enjoyed my maleness, as well as my femaleness. I'm proud of my handyman-side and my love of cars and tinkering with them, but also love how detailed I can get about doing my make-up, and getting completely into my different female looks with everything that requires from the panties to the earrings. I love these "both of me's". Sometimes I think we aren't as much crossdressers as we are tomboys.
However all of this gender talk about where the lines end and begin often gives me a bit of a headache, because I (we) have been living it so long, and honestly when I start reading them I feel a certain degree of sadness.
I think in heaven there is no gender, and the thought of that seems beautiful.

[abby054]

The responsibilities of a father figure are my life right now. I am busy all day, every day, with interactions with many people, most of them younger. My girl cave is the occasional, needed break from this.

A little foolishness now and then is treasured by the wisest men. ~Willy Wonka

[Mickey_43]

I was born a man and I'll die a man.

Aside from that it doesn't mean anything.
Right there is the answer. If I'm doing something around the house, cooking or relaxing, at most I'm still a guy in a dress. When I rebuilt the rear axle for my wife's SUV for some of it I was a guy in leggings. For me, it's not about being something I'm not. Clothes don't make a man, and they don't make a man a woman.

[nikinylons]

I love both sides equally. My wife and daughters love me as a man as much as they love me as a woman. However, I keep it at home and am good with it. I think the main thing our loved ones are worried the most about it being discovered. We have to take care of that and regardless of what we want, we have to realize that it's all about them too. Find a balance and go with what works for everyone around you who knows and protects you.

[Brynna M]

I'm a man who likes to indulge in things reserved for women. Most of the things that really matter in my life would not be that same if I were acting female most of the time. I could not be a husband and father in the same way which would take something away from me and my family. My job as and engineer wouldn't be the same (its sad and everyone I know is well intention ed but their aren't an equal number of female engineers so female interests that bond coworkers are more rare.) My martial arts hobby would be different. saddly people don't always respond the same way to female students and instructors.

I like dresses makup perfume a good Rom com shopping but I also like a lot of things in my male life that would be different and at least different if I were female most of the time.

[Exris]

I appear once again to be an outlier here.

Iv heard comments on "Im an Alpha male". Are you? Seriously are you?

That isnt about flexing an arm once in a while. It is taking control. Taking control and possibly deciding someone else's life future.

If the company needs to cut someone... who do you choose? Your buddy that you shoot pool with, or that awkward immigrant that you dont really like that much? Who do you choose?

I have made that decision more times than I would like to. Once was enough. Several dozens later I still hate it.

How did I get to the position I am now? Honestly? Supporting and suppressing my peers at the same time and not being obvious about it. Brutally attacking "some" above me and saying "that will never work"... then forwarding the evidence to those over them when it didnt.

Alpha males are shit people. Im an utter shit at work. When I hear noises that "this person will resign if they have to work under you" I just hear VICTORY. Then I force them. I make it happen. If they leave.. they leave. I dont really care what they do or say of me.

But if they come to me and ask for a 10 minute... they get it. If they have problems outside of work - even if that will affect their work... I am sympathetic. We all have issues out of work. I will protect anyone that needs a management ear. You need to come in late after dropping your kids off... come in late. You also need to leave early to collect them? ... well do 2 hours on sunday remotly. Go now and I sanction it.

Being Alpha is not about beating your chest all day.

It's mostly about being trusted to make the right decision once youv got there.

[IamWren]

From what I have read over the years many have said in one way or another what there is a difference between man and male. As in to become a man you have to do something (hence the initiation rituals in the past), that you have to gain masculinity. It looks like languages themselves somehow reflect that too in certain ways - English and my native language certainly do - the common phrase "man up" comes to mind. Sue, have you heard about the website called Art of Manliness? And what have you learned from the articles?

Hi Lucy. Yes, I HAVE heard of the Art of Manliness website. It's very, very cool. I came across it a few years ago but didn't keep up with it after a few months. I remember at the time that I loved it and when going back to look at it, I remember why. It discusses things about being manly without being completely misogynistic.

And there in lies the rub about manliness and the millennials' changing definition of what manliness is. How does a male be manly without being an affront to women? I mean, those qualities and behaviors that Exris described are not exclusive to alpha males or men. Women can exhibit those traits as well. It just makes them just as much of an asshole as if a man does it.

With that in mind, I came across an article that, after the PhD psychologist offered her analysis, ended with the question, "Are men being feminized, or are they being humanized?" I think it's a valid question especially if one accepts the idea that masculinity or femininity are social constructs.

[Contessa]

Hi

I consider myself as a feminine male, so to me and me only that isn't a man. A man to me would never let himself wear women's clothing. I said me I believe this. I think that having a penis still makes me male and having breasts slightly changes that. I'm feminine as I have been on HRT for going on three years. I believe that a man will perform as a man. By perform I mean with a woman sexually. Crossdressers do that all the time. How I feel is not the way all should feel I am a transgendered person. That means I am different. No I am no longer a man no matter how as a man I look through my make up. I must Identify as a trans woman all that see me. To myself I am a feminine male.

[Dana44]

Interesting thread, for me as a gender fluid person his whole life, I never felt like a full man. was raised that way and I beat to my own drum my whole life trying to figure myself out. I am male a feminine male but my feminine side is far better than my male side and I seem to tick off my SO when totally male for a while. Yeah the male stuff make one an a-hole and well my fem side is caring and nurturing as well as other good attributes. MY male side does have some good attributes such as compassion, but that might be coming from my female side. so it is slowly blending into one. But I bet the feminine side wins.

[Lucy23]

Yes, I HAVE heard of the Art of Manliness website. It's very, very cool. It discusses things about being manly without being completely misogynistic. And there in lies the rub about manliness and the millennials' changing definition of what manliness is. How does a male be manly without being an affront to women?

With that in mind, I came across an article that, after the PhD psychologist offered her analysis, ended with the question, "Are men being feminized, or are they being humanized?" I think it's a valid question especially if one accepts the idea that masculinity or femininity are social constructs.
That is really a good question, one to which I still don't have an answer. But at least I have some guideposts, and the site has provided some of them - especially their amazing Semper Virilis longform or articles on what it truly means to be an alpha or discussing manliness in relation to historical figures. With that said, I found their articles on dating truly something different than what the pick-up scene offered, to which the term deservedness comes to mind.

I think that being affront to women is at least partially related to those ideas the PUAs spread. I really don't know about the american dating scene (got some second hand opinions from blogs), but around here it's starting to get along the lines of showing "who's the boss", giving the vibe of higher status, do this to diminish her status, etc... and without any of those, you are considered less of man... And maybe even the society if there is only one narrow definition of masculinity.

I would very much like to read that article. Could you provide a link?


I am male a feminine male but my feminine side is far better than my male side and I seem to tick off my SO when totally male for a while. Yeah the male stuff make one an a-hole and well my fem side is caring and nurturing as well as other good attributes. MY male side does have some good attributes such as compassion, but that might be coming from my female side.
Could elaborate more on why you say that male stuff make one an asshole?

[IamWren]

Here ya go.
Are men being feminized or humanized (http://www.businessinsider.com/the-11-nations-of-the-united-states-2015-7?IR=T&utm_content=bufferde7d3&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer)?

[GBJoker]

I'll answer the questions in order they are posed, so as to avoid several quote tags.

1: Yes, it means a lot to me. Lots of things go into how I would define a "man." Putting food on the table for family, being able to fight, etc.

2: Learned not to say anything about that on here...

3: Hindrance.

4: There is no joy in any of my lives.

5: Very bland.

[ellbee]

To me, being a man means...


- I have to register with Selective Service at the age of 18 so I get to be involuntarily drafted to fight & possibly die for this country -- if I don't register, I could get thrown in prison or fined $250K, as well as lose access to a whole bunch of programs & benefits such as financial aid, job training & federal employment;

- I'm way more likely to get injured or die in combat;

- I'm way more likely to get injured or die on the job;

- I'm way more likely to get screwed over in divorce court;

- I'm way more likely to lose custody of my children;

- I'm way more likely to be homeless;

- I'm way more likely to die young;

- I'm way more likely to commit suicide;

- I'm way more likely to have to serve a much longer prison sentence for the same exact crime;

- I'm way more likely for the police to side against me in any kind of situation where they're summoned, even if under false pretenses;

- Half the population thinks I'm a potential kidnapper, rapist, pedophile & murderer, and as such, am immediately & automatically treated as all of those, denying me even a simple everyday conversation as a normal human being

- I'm that much less likely to graduate from high school, to go to college, or to get a degree, simply because of what I have between my legs;

- I have no say in whether or not I want my child to be aborted, or to be put up for adoption, or to raise it myself.



I could keep going on & on about how great it is to being a man, but I think I'll stop for now, thanks.

[Teri Ray]

The question is:

Does being a man (male) mean anything to you? What about the society's expectations? Is it a hindrance or a gift? Can you say that there is joy in your male life? Is your life bland? Please, feel free to share anything related that comes to your mind.

My answers are:

Sure, being a man is who I am. It means I mostly do things men are expected to do. I enjoy who I am as a man.

It appears to me that societies expectations for men have evolved to a point where being rough and tumble or macho is not the only mold for a man. There are roles that men play in todays society that are perceived to be only male but with time those roles seem to be becoming blurred. Being a man for me is being a good person and being a male role model. Tough when needed and empathic when required.

I do not believe being a man is a hindrance, we are one part of a two part system to maintain the human species. Being male is no more a gift than being female.

I do find joy in my life. I am blessed with a great wife, family and friends. Life is a sign wave where some times are better than others. Being male does not influence my being happy or not. I am pretty happy as male. (with an occasional venture into crossdressing)

My life is bland at times and at other times it has been anything but bland. Life presents lots of challenges and opportunities I doubt there is anyone who has a perfect life. Both genders experience the good and bad times. Your gender does not define if you are a good person.

Other stuff:

Being male has perks: I can pee standing up. I never had to experience a period (I understand that is not a fun experience).

I believe that there are people who suffer with gender identity issues that are truly significant (I am not among those). I can only try to understand what they experience. That being said. I believe that gender does not define if you are a good person or not.

[TrishaTX]

I guess I am only like a few on here, I would say I am 60/40 male female. I like being a man , dressing in those clothes suites pants jeans jersey etc, I love playing ball with my son and coaching his teams, I love women and always liked to chase them and now married love being with a women. I also have always had this female side, both in my personality, thought process and especially in the bedroom. I am also both in there but love to dress, feel sexy , vulnerable and complete. I could not be one without the other.

[NewBrendaLee]

To me its someone who isn't true me.

[MarinaSweden]

Being a man is so wonderful when you are together with a woman you love and when you make love to her.

The rest of the time, I love expressing myself as the woman inside me.

[Acastina]

Hi

I consider myself as a feminine male, so to me and me only that isn't a man. A man to me would never let himself wear women's clothing. I said me I believe this. I think that having a penis still makes me male and having breasts slightly changes that. I'm feminine as I have been on HRT for going on three years. I believe that a man will perform as a man. By perform I mean with a woman sexually. Crossdressers do that all the time. How I feel is not the way all should feel I am a transgendered person. That means I am different. No I am no longer a man no matter how as a man I look through my make up. I must Identify as a trans woman all that see me. To myself I am a feminine male.

So I guess I'm not alone here. I always cringe very subtly and invisibly when that word "man" is applied to me. I'm male by all evidence, but I've never really embraced masculinity by any more than a sort of experimentation. When I was growing up, I spent an inordinate amount of time and energy studying other boys and men to determine how I was supposed to act and, presumably, eventually feel. As I once wrote in a song: Once it all seemed so simple/pretty good at playing the role. I'm a pretty accomplished actor and mimic; that's how I learned to cope. Never really grew into the role and found a place that was comfortable; it was always like playing a role or carrying a mask around.

In fact, I believe that the effort of studying and play-acting severely limited my career development and general "success" in life. So many here write about demanding, traditionally alpha careers from which CD is a time-out escape, of being happy "normal" husbands and fathers, of being nuts for sports or cars or whatever. I am very handy and can fix the car or remodel a house, but those are just learned skills that are certainly not gender-exclusive.

I had one faltering, unhappy marriage relatively young (22) and then was alone for 25 years because I knew there was something different about me and didn't feel it was fair to enter into a permanent partnership with an unsuspecting woman who would likely have cultural expectations that I couldn't meet. I was never motivated to father children. I enjoy the role of grandpa to my wonderful second wife's grandchildren, but it's just another role; I've seen it done by others and learned that gig too. It has its moments, which do make me wonder what if, but...

But, there's always a melancholic backbeat of gender ambiguity and discomfort. I don't really feel like one or the other, and I don't see that ever changing.

One weird thing is that I may have learned the roles so well that no one suspects. I had a brief relationship fifteen years ago with a woman who mentioned several times that she liked decidedly masculine men, and I asked her why she liked me, then. She was taken aback and wondered why I would respond that way. We lived in different cities, and at the time, I was also going out as my feminine persona pretty regularly out of town. So, to me, I felt androgynous at best but came across to her as comfortably masculine.

The line you have identified between "man" and "male" is profoundly significant to me. The latter is a physical, biological fact; the former is a cultural construct that doesn't interest or fulfill me.

[Contessa]

I may have been born with a man's anatomy but I do not feel that fits who I am really so I have been completely dressed as a fe male or femmale for almost 7 years. I am not one of the people that I loathe. I don't like men now I know why. I was never the hard shell person you might consider as a man. I am more comfortable as me. Thread is making it easy to go back with those that consider themselves as TS. I could not do the back and forth 7 years ago, and I can't discuss it here. So anything I can say can't help any one here. Sorry

[Michelle Cheli]

I don't know if anyone goes through what I can only describe as "bi polar crossdressing", but there are times when my mindset will swing from wanting to dress as Michelle to a testosterone fueled fantasy of being some badass in an action movie....to be honest sometimes I think of Michelle as another distinct personality in my head, like one side of a coin. So I guess what I'm saying is when I'm a man, I'm a man.

[TrishaTX]

[QUOTE=Michelle Cheli;4031681]I don't know if anyone goes through what I can only describe as "bi polar crossdressing", but there are times when my mindset will swing from wanting to dress as Michelle to a testosterone fueled fantasy of being some badass in an action movie..


Oh yes I agree a well, that sounds about right