Visceral Response

[Meghan4now]

So, I was talking to Tracii over dinner the other day and asked her a question, which she thought I should ask the forum.

As we are aware, other people's response to our dressing, trans-ness, orientation, presentation and even libido are not always apparently rational. While it is easy to say,"that's their problem" reactions from others IS in fact major part of the dynamic of a relationship. Relationships are all about how we treat and react to one another.

Getting down to it though, some reactions are hard to explain. For example, I have seen and heard a lot of "eww", "that creeps me out", or "gross" types of visceral comments about CDs, from observations of TV shows, movies, news, and even in conversations with my spouse and others. And people are entitled to their opinions, even if they are uninformed.

But this got me thinking, there has to be some basis for this visceral reaction. For example, my wife will throw up if she smells vomit. People will instinctively fight or flight to a dangerous situation, etc. My question is, what is the root of the visceral negative response to CDing? Could it be fear of catching CD cooties? Could it be fear of being seduced? Could it be fear that the person is violently unstable? Do CDS smell noxious? Are we dangerous, or poisonous or disease laden?

What is the cause of the "Ewww" visceral response? Maybe if I understood that, I could address the response with a rational approach. Of course each person may have their own reason, but it might help to ferret it out. And there may be root causes I am not considering.

[Micki_Finn]

Quite simply it's just not understanding, especially in the motivation department. A lot of people simply don't understand why we dress. From a straight person's point of view, the most logical reason for dressing is that you are trying to deceive people, which generally causes that kind of negative reaction.

Then there's also the uncanny valley theory. That is, to most straight people, many cross dressers fall somewhere short of completely passable nor are they obviously a guy so it causes that kind of instinctual visceral reaction. Similar to how many people are creeped out by clowns or certain dolls. If you're not familiar with the uncanny valley, it's most commonly referenced in robotics. Basically the more human looking a robot is, the more likely people are to accept it. However if we are charting this, the line of acceptance would steadily increase until a certain point when the robot looks pretty close to human but is still slightly distinguishable from real at which point people tend to have a viscerally and unfounded negative reaction. Once the robot becomes "passable" that dip resolves itself and the pattern of acceptance resumes.

[AllieSF]

I think that in many, if not most, cases it is a response to something that is totally out of the norm for a person encountering something that that know nothing to very little about and have a negative, maybe even unconscious, opinion of it all. Lack of knowledge. Someone tells you that they ran a 5K mud race. If you are unfamiliar with that type of fun race you may go "Eww!" because it sounds dirty and cold and wet. If someone tells you about a new dessert they had at a restaurant that had olive oil over vanilla ice cream with coarse sea salt sprinkled on top of that, you may go "Eww!" there too. Actually that is my favorite desert at one place I frequent. So, it could be similar for CDing. They know very little about it and because of that lack of knowledge and exposure they think it is weird as a first response. Now some may continue with that negativity, but many others will eventually learn to live with it as they learn more and get more exposure to it.

[Michelle Crossfire]

I agree with Micki_Finn. It is usually a lack of understanding or an unwillingness to understand. It could be how one was raised, or caused by any number of reasons.

[AllieSF]

Micki, I agree with most of what you say, but disagree with the "trying to deceive people" part. I have only read that a few times here and have never heard anywhere else. Now if someone has experience with a trap, someone who can pass and does so to trick/surprise someone when they eventually find out, then, yes, I understand that feeling. Since so few of us come anywhere near to passing in a more general sense, we are thus obvious one gender wearing the clothes of another and not deceiving anyone. I strongly agree with the not understanding of the why, or associating our dressing with the sexual fetish side, which in my opinion a minority reason for all this.

[Meghan4now]

So far, I like the train of thought, but it is like the 5 whys in root cause analysis. In your ice cream example, I get that. Sweet and creamy meets oily, salty with an olive twang. Doesn't sound good. The visceral reaction in that case is, won't taste good, and maybe there's a texture problem. Obviously uninformed. But CDing, is it danger? What danger?

And yes, uninformed is important, but I can run into other situations that I am equally uninformed about, and not react in such a visceral response.

[suzanne]

We live in a patriarchal society, in which the highest ranking is thought to be the manly MAN. And not just any man, but the hyper-masculine version, as illustrated in our media. Think GI Joe, the NFL, Clint Eastwood and a range of emotional expression that spans all the way from anger to contempt. In this world, woman and female and feminine are regarded as "less than". I wholeheartedly disagree with this, but it is what I observe.

In the patriarchy, a girl or woman who performs or wishes to participate in those activities that have been designated as "masculine" is pretty much given a pass. To an extent. She is limited by the glass ceiling or by labels like "****" or "lesbian" or costuming a la Lingerie Football league, but she has much more latitude than her male counterpart. A genetic male who wants to be a kindergarten teacher or stay at home dad is suspicious. If he puts on a dress, Armageddon is right around the corner. He has committed high treason against the male code.

And it's not just the men who have bought into this code. It's everyone, including all those women who want to tell their CD husband "I forbid". When asked about the code, most will reply that it's just the way it is, that men are men. Period. It's like asking a fish about the existence of water. It's so all encompassing, one can't imagine that an alternative can exist. So maybe part of the answer is that the muggles are threatened by potentially losing the security of the code.

[Becky Blue]

I think its mostly ignorance & fear of the unknown. Studies have shown that one of the biggest fears people have is of fear itself. People do not like change, they do not like difference therefore they to an extent fear us, they fear our difference.

Only 30 years ago a lot of people had a negative reaction to gay people, now most (not all) people are ok with gay people, being gay has been almost normalised. That is why i am a huge supporter of every Trans person that is out there (even Caitlyn) making news as they are helping to normalise trans.

[Meghan4now]

Hmm,

I'm still contemplating. I think Mickie has helped my thought process. After all, we humans often reject that which we have been trained is unacceptable. Think of people with abnormalities or even birth defects. Defects we call them. Aberrations from the norm. Mis-shapened features, body parts, etc. While people don't like to admit it, it makes us uncomfortable. Usually we see mutation from the norm as bad, likely to not survive, unhealthy.

Are CDS mutants? If so, I want to be Mystique!

[Dana44]

I don't think we are mutants, However, many of us were born wrong and many of us growing up in that patriarchal society we could not find any information to help us. I am a DES kid and having synthetic estrogen running over my body did a number on me. I wondered when I was a kid if I was even male. Growing up was strange and It took me a while to find myself. That is why we are non binary and perhaps we beat to our own drum. We are not conformist and gifted in a way that people do look at us as a bit weird.

[Helen_Highwater]

My thoughts are that it's a throwback to times were being Gay or CD, both being considered under the same umbrella as mutually inclusive, were socially taboo and to say frowned upon understates the situation.

It takes many generations to overcome long held bigotry entirely. Some children will move pass their parents racism or homophobia, some simply won't. Couple to this that in a social environment standing out from the crowd and asking, " So what's wrong in dressing they way they do?" places the supportive individual open to taunts of being gay or CD themselves, means that person has to be immensely strong when communicating their point of view.

Let's face it, while being gay has to a large but not total extent, lost it's stigma, CD'ing still has a way to go. With those who are accepting there is a significant percentage who still associate CD'ing with being gay. Finally if we here can't really understand at a base level, (we know how it effects us) what it is that initially draws us to do what we do, how can others begin to comprehend our situation.

[Tracii G]

Dana there have been non conformists for generations and they were called eccentric so its nothing new.
I do believe a lack of knowledge or understanding is a lot of it.
I really haven't come up with a theory on Meghan's question so please continue.
P.S. when I see big spiders I say "eeeek" then I squash them and say "ewwww".
Thanks for the nice chat over dinner Meghan it was so nice to meet you.

[Meghan4now]

Ha ha, Tracii. I would have never guessed you to say eek over a spider. The smash and ewww I would believe.

And thanks for taking the time for dinner. It was a good conversation, and you know how I love to meet people from this board in person. One of the main reasons to stick around, even when the post get repetitive.

I suppose general acceptance has a factor, but getting down to that core of almost unconscious visceral ick factor goes beyond that I think. That kind of response is deeply ingrained.

[Tina_gm]

I agree a lot of what Suzanne says in terms of the patriarchal society. Some places, like where I reside are very steep into this belief. I too have seen many women in this area have just as negative reaction as do men. The mention of transgender in a general convoy caused one woman to make the gag/vomit sign. And of course social media in my area is strewn with anti gay anti Trans memes.

Becky makes good observations about fear of the unknown. We tend to fear what we don't understand as humans. Social conditioning besides just patriarchal, being told and literally preached to about how it is not only wrong, but sinful/evil.

[Tracii G]

To be honest I have no idea about all of this so I am enjoying the read and perhaps all of us will learn together.

Now I will be watching for spiders all night.LOL

[Acastina]

Patriarchy, yes, of course. With maleness the dominant one, it's a step down, demeaning, for a male to emulate a female, whether in behavior or attire. Man up, don't be a a sissy, you're such a pussy; all of the same cloth. Assertive women can get either response, respect for reaching up toward the dominant or contempt for threatening its primacy. But women who pretty much cross-dress in drab unisex clothing get a pass in almost every case.

No one has mentioned latency fear. It's a pretty well-recognized phenomenon that some anti-gay abuse stems from fear in the abuser that he is a latent gay, and that should port over to us as well.

Generic bigotry, the I-hate-almost-everyone-who-isn't-like-me syndrome. On the rise lately.

Social insecurity and anxiety; teenagers at the mall.

[michelleddg]

Heck, I dunno, but I suspect it's how many people react when taken dramatically out of their comfort zone. Either that or they really want to try on our shoes but are embarrassed to admit it. Hugs, Michelle

[Jenniferathome]

It's weird.

Anything far out of the norm has a similar response.

[Meghan4now]

I don't know about this patriarchal theory, for some yes, but we still get a lot of ick from women, including feminist. I think it may be closer to the fact that it not the norm, and sticks out, like fingernails on a chalk board. An incongruity, maybe like hitting an off key note. But Stravinsky shows us how the discordant can resolve into harmony, so there is still hope for us.

BTW Michelle, who wouldn't want to try your shoes on? They're fabulous;)

[Tracii G]

I recently got verbally slammed by a raging feminist SJW so how does that fit in the mix?
I am sure she is pro gay and tells people that but she sure didn't like me at all because I was a guy with make up and womens clothes.
Maybe she was a "not in my backyard type". All I know she was a nut case on the loose.

[docrobbysherry]

I've gotten a lot of responses when out among the Muggles. Some positive but most not!:thumbsdn:

The worst I ever heard was, "That is the weirdest F ing thing I've ever seen!" Said in a very loud voice in a crowd in Vegas. By a T girl who had as much chance of passing as Arnold Schwarzenegger!:sad:

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Meghan:hugs:, You just can't fix stupid ! ...:daydreaming:...

[SarahleeNH]

I think that if someone challenges a social norm in a bold way, many react negatively because it appears to be rude. Sort of a 'I've made an effort to dress appropriately to be here, but you haven't met your part of the social contract. Therefore, we need to give you some 'correction'. Social integrity requires civic discipline or the entire fabric begins to unravel, is the thought. At least, I think it is the subconscious feeling of many. My two cents...

[Krisi]

.......And people are entitled to their opinions, even if they are uninformed................

"even if they are uninformed" - Isn't that just a code phrases for "they don't agree with my opinions"?

Until we've know someone intimately for a very long time, we don't know what caused them to form their "opinions" and even then it would be presumptuous to assume that our opinions are right and theirs are wrong.

People (in the USA, at least) are entitled to their own opinions. At this point, we have no thought police. They may not be allowed to act on their own opinions but they are allowed to have them.

- - - Updated - - -


I've gotten a lot of responses when out among the Muggles. Some positive but most not!:thumbsdn:

The worst I ever heard was, "That is the weirdest F ing thing I've ever seen!" Said in a very loud voice in a crowd in Vegas. By a T girl who had as much chance of passing as Arnold Schwarzenegger!:sad:

Sherry, you take this thing a lot further than most of us with the suit and especially the mask. And from the photos you've posted, I would say your outfits are over the top as well. You should not be surprised that you get the reactions you get.

Those of us who make an effort to blend in with the crowd don't normally get reactions like you mentioned.

[Jackie7]

I think Michelle nailed it. The strongest eeeeew reaction might be a genuine gut response, but it might also be a mask to hide secret fascination.

[Meghan4now]

Krisi

NO

That is not code, it is exactly what I said. If the person has not has not examined information about CDING, it's causes, it's various presentation, the facts around the demographic distribution including typical sexual orientation, THEN THEY ARE UNINFORMED.

Uninformed people are entitled to their opinion, but when they have a visceral response, which is a subconscious reaction, it would be awfully nice to know what the root of that is.

And BTW, I have seen people that I've know for 30 or more years make these type of comments, and it is still surprising.

Nobody is suggesting thought police here. I am suggesting that if you know the root cause to what forms an opinion, it might help direct ones own approach to a conversation. Nothing in this post was said about forcing ones opinion on another.

[Krisi]

A person could study sexual orientation and/or crossdressing and still decide that it's wrong. That doesn't make them "uninformed", it just means they don't agree with you.

What forms a person's opinions? Upbringing and life experience. Theirs will be different from mine and different from yours.

[Meghan4now]

I never said that someone that disagrees with me is uninformed. However, an uninformed opinion is limited in value, as it may not reflect reality. One may change their opinion with better information.

[nonameyet1234]

I had never heard of the uncanny valley theory. That is really interesting.

What I find interesting is how context plays a major role. I went out trick or treating with the kids dressed through a conservative Texas neighborhood and the only reactions I got where when people were thrown off thinking I was a woman until I talked or they looked close...at which time I got a "whoah!! Wow, great costume, you look great" or "you make a good looking women" or "great makeup". Then the conversation would just go on to something else like it was nothing. Now, if I went out exactly like that on any given Tuesday, that would most certainly not be how it would go down. It's so crazy how thin the line is.

Wear hosiery because you just had surgery and you need it for clot protection, no issue. Wear hosiery because you like it...visceral response. Dress up for Halloween, no issue. Dress up for yourself, visceral response. These are scenarios where the visual representation is exactly the same, so I don't think it's visually based.

[ClosetED]

Very interesting thread - I understand the uncanny valley concept but the phrase is new to me. I think it does play a big role as a robot passing for human brings in the other human's need to decide how to interact socially with the other being. A spider or unusual dessert do not. Society does not respond the same way to all things out of the norm. If you saw a toilet seat in the middle of the sidewalk, you would stare at it certainly and wonder, but not have that visceral reaction against it that the uncanny valley theory describes. Fear of unknown is also not the answer as if you saw an inanimate thing you did not recognize, you would be evaluating it for danger, but not get that visceral reaction. I had considered homophobia as part of the reaction of society, as that also brings in the need for the other human to have to decide how to interact with a crossdresser - using male/male social contruct or male/female contruct. I wondered if homosexuals would then have a bit less reaction as they may be more comfortable in choosing between those 2 constructs.
Just IMHO
Any who see evidence to support that theory?
Hugs, Ellen

[Acastina]

I don't know about this patriarchal theory, for some yes, but we still get a lot of ick from women, including feminist. ...

Patriarchy doesn't just mean men, and plenty of women have bought into the hierarchy through social conditioning; it's just the way the world seems to be and they're OK with their role in an ordered system of power.

There's also the possibility that some women see it as an invasion of their designated social space and resent it as such. The strain of feminism that condemns it is along these lines. Witness the frequent response to the restroom issue that "real" women deserve some sort of sanctuary with toilets and sinks.

[ellbee]

Because it messes with people's heads? :strugglin


Many look at nature as a binary (male or female) kind of thing -- that one should be either one or the other.

It's a fundamental thing to most species, especially those of which people are typically aware of on an everyday superficial level (cats, dogs, humans, horses, lions, etc.).


And when they come across something that breaks that mold, it challenges their brain & all hell can break loose.


Not saying they're correct. But that's how many view it.

[Tracii G]

So being a mix of both I am messing with someone's head?

[TinaMc]

So the question is basically why do people feel disgusted by crossdressers? I would think it's because of the media - movies, news etc. I guess the only way to overcome it is to show the public that someone can be a crossdresser and not be weird, eventually people will stop associating crossdressing with creepiness.

[ClosetED]

Yes, just like a near normal looking robot would mess with your head - do you treat it like a machine or a human? Did you see Ex Machina? The man had to sort out his emotions to the being - it can be seen as a robot yet acted very human. So if it was even closer to human, like Data or Terminator, would you react the same when you found out you guessed wrong and you were "deceived"? Data would not do it with plan for secondary gain, while Terminator would be trying to trick you.
Hugs, Ellen

[ellbee]

Tracii: Yeah, pretty much. At least for some. And no, we're not doing it intentionally, before we go down that road, ha. But in their very narrowly-defined black & white mind, it screws them up on some basic level.


Tina: To be fair, I've seen enough photos & YouTube videos & what-not of public CD'ing, and some of these girls are being weird & creepy, even in *my* eyes! I can only imagine how it must look to a non-CD'er.

[Hell on Heels]

Hell-o Meghan,
I believe the visceral responses vary from one person to another..
For some it can be attributed to social preconditioning.
Years of being uninformed, or better yet misinformed, and then sharing
their misconception of reality, that they've come to know as fact, with
others just ingrains that eewww.


And near human robots? I think I've encountered a few of those
working the cash register at my grocery store! How can you tell?
Creepy!

And Sherry how could you say Arnold wouldn't have a chance at passing?
https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KIo9THf0lYCE0AoK1x.9w4;_ylu=X3oDMTEzdn Zib3EzBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDVUkyRkJUMwRncG9z AzE4?p=arnold+schwarzenegger+dressed+as+a+woman&vid=4664c49fce56000f88d5b338160495e5&turl=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOV P.V690d3659d2e862241cad77a7982f91ad%26pid%3D15.1%2 6h%3D225%26w%3D300%26c%3D7%26rs%3D1&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DJ uwMixG0Rqk&tit=BUT+I%26%2339%3BM+ALL+WOMAN+-+Arnold+Schwarzenegger&c=17&h=225&w=300&l=2&sigr=11b8ttq6u&sigt=11db67uhh&sigi=132gq26u0&age=1362345701&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av&fr=yfp-hrmob-900&tt=b

A few years on HRT and a little FFS, who knows ????
Much Love,
Kristyn
Oh yeah Meghan, nice to hear you were able to get together with Traci.

[Pat]

You were asking about the visceral reaction, not the intellectual reaction the latter of which I think is the domain of education or lack thereof. I think the visceral reaction against crossdressing comes from the same place that our visceral attraction to it comes from -- the theory is that there is a "gender core" built in to each of us. Naturally, cisgender people's gender core matches their sex and transgender people's gender core does not. A large part of gendered behavior is driven by learned social norms (girls play with dolls, boys play with army tanks) but the desire to pick the 'correct' norm is motivated by the fact that our gender core gives us a little shot of joy when we choose the "right" one.

Now, if you can accept the gender core theory (and I kinda like it) let's consider this -- you are a cisgender male and you meet another apparent male who has just made a "wrong" gender choice and shows no remorse. What is your reaction? I'd suggest that you invoke your own gender core in evaluating his behavior, get a sense of wrongness and that's the source of your visceral reaction. With education, you can disregard that input, but it might still take a while to get to tolerance and longer still to get to acceptance.

We have lots of analogous situations in our lives -- swimming is one; pretty much everyone must learn that it's OK to get into water over their head. Flying is another - first time flyers frequently get mild to overwhelming panic when they see the ground drop away. In these cases, your body reacts by instinct and you have to overcome your body's sense of what's right. I'd guess the gender core reaction would be the same -- needless panic that can be overcome by reason.

[Kandi Robbins]

While I have never experienced any negative visceral responses, my thought would be such a response is caused by how that CD is dressed and/or presents herself. Dress appropriately (for your age, your weight, your size, the situation, etc..), I don't think the "visceral" negative reaction happens (it might be negative, but more measured). Dress like a 16 year old when you are 50, wear fishnets and a micro-mini skirt to Applebee's and yeah, you are likely to get that kind of response.

[Tracii G]

Thank you Kandi I think you just won a prize for a correct answer.LOLOL

[Meghan4now]

I like Jennie's post a lot. You are right on. The question is about the subconscious response more than a reasoned response. I think that informed responses will tend to be quite different even if they are positive or negative. Not just a simple Ewww. But the original premise of the question is that that type of response might have some physiological-psycological basis. And we can ask why. What is disgusting, why is it creepy, what is your fear? They may not know, but it might get the wheels turning. Why indeed?

[Hell on Heels]

Not true Kandi,
I had me t a friend from the forum at The Monterey Aquarium,
I was wearing jeans and possibly a tunic (heels of course) but not looking
like I didn't belong at all, the same for this friend. We were standing in front
of one of the displays chatting away, when the gentleman in fornt of us turned
around to move on to the next display. He got a good look and his immediate
reaction was that look of disgust, like we had no right to be in his space.

[Lana Mae]

Antiquated societal norms that are based on ignorance of the facts! These norms are forced on us at a very young age with negative reinforcers for nonconformance. Once society realizes it was totally wrong then there will be a very gradual change in those norms, but it will not occur overnight! Wow, that almost sounds intelligent! Hugs Lana Mae

[Tracii G]

Yeah stop it Lana Mae your comment is making my brain hurt.LOL

[Jane G]

My two length. I think it is about trusting our instincts. We make quick observations of our encounters all the time. Then we fill in the gaps with knowledge from previous experiences and usually that gives us enough information, in seconds, to make an accurate picture of a particular situation. However when we meet a cd our instincts may initially be wrong on the fundermetal human perception of gender. If we then realise we got such a basic recognition wrong, this creates a sense of mistrust. A feeling we have been decieved.

[donnalee]

Pretty simple - our instinctive reaction is strange is dangerous; someone not like us is threatening our territory, hence our survival, a basis for racial, religious and every other form of prejudice from time immemorial.
It is not a desirable instinct in today's society, but nevertheless is there and needs to be constantly fought against in order for us to be able to live with each other.
Of course, there was that experiment with mice overpopulation ---------

[DarthDaddicus]

Just a quick theory:
When we see a shameless naked person out in the open, the majority of the reactions from the viewers is also one of immediate disgust. Perhaps it is due to the shamelessness of the naked person? If another naked person were to attempt to sneak around as if though they were attempting to hide their nakedness, most viewers would not be disgusted and would, instead, attempt to aid the shameful individual by pretending not to see them or by averting their eyes. I believe that if any of us were to see the shameless naked person, we would behave as if though it were an everyday occurrence which made no difference in our lives. Perhaps when the majority of people view us, they see the nakedness of our minds and the obvious shamelessness we have by being able to walk around however we please in public. However, I feel the root of the disgust is buried in generation after generation of humans knowing fully well how vulnerable we are when we are not properly attired. Of course, we don't need as much protection from the wild as we once did, but we also don't need to use the standard system of measurement, the QWERTY keyboard, or cursive lettering. But we still learn and remember these things. I feel that once humans get to the point where we have nothing to fear from the elements any longer, and we are more comfortable walking around in the nude, then the clothes we choose to wear and the mental nudity we feel free to share will not be looked at with a feeling of disgust. It's going to take some time, though. Good thing we're getting them used to it early.

[Contessa]

I think it maybe that they think you are not a man nor a woman. So they put you in one category. You are a freak of nature, you think you are something you can't possibly be. Best you look the best you can if you don't you are some weirdo who needs help. The closer you look to who you present as is better for you. When people go Ewww they are saying you are nasty scum you have been doing something wrong such as peeking in to someone's windows or just doing something like someone masterbating in the site of others.

[ReineD]

It’s not the same for everyone so we need to accept that different groups or types of people will react negatively for different reasons.

But first I think it’s important to note there are MANY people now who DON’T react at all. Negative reactions may have been nearly universal a few decades ago, but this is no longer true. But, if most CDers can go out in public and have strangers barely raise an eyebrow, the rules often change when it hits close to home. An open-minded wife may accept there are indeed CDers and she may do no more than look at a CDer with a bit of curiosity (and no negative judgment) when she encounters a CDer in public, but she may have difficulty accepting that her husband crossdresses, for all the reasons we’ve discussed in other threads. I won’t list them all here.

As mentioned, a lot of people don’t object to it particularly (as long as it doesn’t hit close to home) but they still privately think it is odd, for the simple reason there are very few men who crossdress. It is not the statistical norm. Also, since most people are happy presenting as the gender they are, they cannot understand why anyone would want to do otherwise, whether they are MtF or FtM (As a side note, I think a lot of people don’t see any difference between CDers and TSs.)

The religious groups of people object for what they believe are moral reasons. They disapprove of abortion, same-sex marriage, and cross-gender expression because they believe that these behaviors are sinful. This is social conditioning.

Some people don’t object for religious or moral reasons but they have the same negative visceral reactions to the crossdressing as they would if they saw two people of the same sex kissing, or if they witnessed incest. I think these people are sexually conservative and they equate the CDing with fetish - they simply aren’t wired to accept behaviors that don’t conform to their own.

[PaulaQ]

What is the cause of the "Ewww" visceral response? Maybe if I understood that, I could address the response with a rational approach. Of course each person may have their own reason, but it might help to ferret it out. And there may be root causes I am not considering.

One of the principle control mechanisms in place in our society is a rigid highly binary system of gender identity, in which until recent times, even totally arbitrary and changing fashions were categorized and policed based on perceived gender.

Anyone who presents in a strongly cross sex way is a challenge to this, and is a challenge to people's deeply held assumptions. Our society DOES NOT encourage open discussion about self-exploration, identity, and sexual orientation. No, it presumes everyone is cisgender, heterosexual, and that anything that varies from this is aberrant. (You haven't lived until you've argued with a gay sexologist about these matters! That such a person would argue that there is a "normal" that is anything other than social convention tells you how deeply ingrained such assumptions must be.)

Some people fear stuff they don't understand, that they perceive to be different, or that challenges their beliefs. We just happen to hit the trifecta of all that.

Some of these people -more than you'd expect- quite literally will not view you as a human being.

There is no rational argument for this because it isn't based in reason, it's purely emotional. The best way to combat it is to be out, be visible, share your story, and thus help normalize us. You aren't likely to change the worst of these people, but you can nfluence those on the fence and help new ones from being created in the next generation.

[Ally 2112]

I can be my own best and worst critic about accepting myself never mind other opins .I will deal with that

[Acastina]

A person could study sexual orientation and/or crossdressing and still decide that it's wrong. That doesn't make them "uninformed", it just means they don't agree with you.

What forms a person's opinions? Upbringing and life experience. Theirs will be different from mine and different from yours.

And if they act out that disagreement in a rude or threatening way, they're bigots, defined as the intolerant attachment to one's beliefs. If they mind their own business, fine, live and let live, but if they get in your face with condemnation, that crosses a line.

Why are their opinions entitled to aggressive dominance? The OP asked about visceral responses, not differences of opinion. Bigotry can be ignorant, or it can be knowing.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

It isn't unique to bigots encountering crossdressers. I've seen people react similarly to effeminate gays, or to people who are particularly revolting because of appearance, physique, or activity.

It's just an expression of a person reaching their limit of tolerance and acceptance. To my mind they would be people who would not cope well out of their comfort zone. Or to put it more succinctly, 'losers'.

[Beverley Sims]

The same reaction applies to surgeons up to their ears in blood, the mortician preparing a corpse for burial, war atrocities of the uncensored kind and anything that is not the norm to others.

Some could not work in a butchers shop, slaughterhouse or be a first responder or ambulance driver.

These people do their job with efficiency and even fervour.

Would you make a good first aid attendant?

There are some who are in these occupations would give us the eww factor the same as we could not do their jobs.

[ClosetED]

In medical school, I had to take a hand saw and cut the head of our cadaver down the middle of the face to expose the areas inside to learn them. So gory movies have nothing on what I have done, in the name of science. No visceral response, but the image sticks with you. I drained 2 foul smelling abscesses yesterday - no visceral response. Maybe I have little emotions - I consider myself half Vulcan, but hope my Ellen side can be my Amok time. The uncanny robot theory also helps explains why racial bigots may hate others so much enough to do violence- they hoped to see them as very different, but in reality see them the same and therefore get the visceral response.
Maybe we live in a society of gender bigots who get this response to people who are close by don't fit the exact binary.
Hugs, Ellen

[phili]

I've found generally gay men are sympathetic to cross-dressers as fellow travelers in being out of the ordinary gender wise. The drag queen theatrical exaggeration of society's view of gay men as sissies is a big meme, so there is still a range of visceral response among gay men- from sympathetic to mocking, with curiosity and friendly tolerance the largest segment.

I represent a minority position among crossdressers, and get the same visceral response range here on the Forum- for all the good reasons everyone has said here. This has been a really informative read!

[sometimes_miss]

people are entitled to their opinions,
then

there has to be some basis for this visceral reaction.
If it's a visceral reaction, it's not an opinion.

Are we dangerous, or poisonous or disease laden?
No, we simply display a behavior which upsets most of our society's perception of people accepting the responsibilities of the traditional roles assigned to the sexes. An occasional woman can do that with no threat to the 'tribe', which is why gay and TG women aren't disliked as we are. But when a man does it, it could threaten the entire existance of that society. One weak link in a line of battle can cause the loss of the entire group of soldiers, and then the whole society will be at risk.


Maybe if I understood that, I could address the response with a rational approach. <snip> And there may be root causes I am not considering.
You're going to have to present an entire psychological hypothesis to your target CD-o-phobe and hope they have the intellectual capacity to understand and accept it. A large percentage of the population apparently does not. Remember, more than 50% of the population still believes in mythology, not science/rational thought.


what is the root of the visceral negative response to CDing?
I honestly believe that there is at least some genetic predisposition to it. Women rely on men for support and protection; This has always been true. So when they see someone that they previously assumed would fulfill that role, who now appears to be taking on the traditional female role, they feel insecure and uncomfortable because the protection they need no longer appears to be there. Whether it crosses over to the 'Ewww' threshold depends upon the woman involved.
Same with men; historically, men depended upon each other to stand fast in battle, even to fight to the death to protect the soldier's flank next to him. Any reason that would make someone doubt his reliability in that role could make them distrust him, and hate him at worst. And when they consider that he might do this intentionally, there comes the disgust, and the 'Ewww' factor.

[Meghan4now]

Lexi,

That is true, not quite an opinion. But I think your description meets the criteria of dangerous. And I do really think some response is still that we have a disease, and it might catch in some bizarre way! Totally irrationally, but it does exist.

[mona lisa]

Either that or they really want to try on our shoes but are embarrassed to admit it. Hugs, Michelle

Thats the answer right there! :)

[Trishpdxcd2]

I am always a little shocked at how deep seated gender is, especially in my (older) generation. But then I just have to think about how we were raised as males and how anything feminine was derided.