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Ellie Summer
12-10-2016, 03:00 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned on here, but not much came up in a search so I thought I'd start a thread. I like to read about native american cultures and came across the concept of the two-spirit. In native american tribes, gender was non binary and those who felt that they were in between were referred to as two spirits (there were different names at the time and the new term only came about in the 90s.) Rather than being stigmatized, these people were looked up to as spiritual leaders, and intellectuals. In fact they were considered gifted because they were able to see the world from the perspective of both male and female. They believed that "The creator" would hand out a bow and arrow to the boys before birth, and a basket to the girls, but they believed that sometimes at the last second, the creator would switch hands and give a basket to someone who was supposed to be a boy and vice versa. Children were also given gender neutral clothes to allow them to decide for themselves who they decided to be. It's really fascinating to read about how accepting they were. There's a PBS documentary on youtube about it, but beware its a little depressing because it's centered around the murder of a two spirit. If you can get past that, its a great doc.

Tracii G
12-10-2016, 03:07 PM
I too look at the way I am as being of both spirits and I have spoken with a Navajo friend of mine about people considered two spirit.
He did mention they were looked on a enlightened people or special.
Its all very interesting IMO so I will have to watch that video.

NewBrendaLee
12-10-2016, 08:04 PM
I believe that there are two spirts in me. I pefer my female spirt

Acastina
12-10-2016, 09:31 PM
Yes, the Native American tradition is interesting. The French explorers applied the label "Berdache", a term meant to apply to younger partners in gay relationships. It is commonly now considered an offensive term for that reason. Some interesting points from an online article (http://nativeamericannetroots.net/diary/313):

"The berdache was not a third category, but a way of referring to a continuum of human behavior that doesn’t fit neatly into the European notions of male and female."

"Among most of the Northern Plains cultures, there were some boys who preferred the company of girls and who eventually dressed as girls. The ethnographic literature about these individuals generally refers to them as berdaches. Among the Crow, at about the age of 10-12 a young boy might take on the female clothing and female work. As a male berdache he was accepted in Crow society and might marry a man. In describing the male berdache, Edwin Thompson Denig, writing in 1856, says: “He is not to be distinguished in any way from the women.” However, in Crow society the berdache was neither male nor female, but an individual who had characteristics of both."

"What was/is the American Indian berdache? Too often there is an attempt to use European categories to understand the berdache and thus to assume that they were homosexual. Undoubtedly, some were, but the role of the berdache was not a sexual one. Sometimes the berdache has been described as a transvestite or as a transgender people. Again, this is not a totally true image of who they were. Gender and sexuality in Indian cultures allowed a wide range of variation and the concept of the berdache simply shows that cultures exist which allow a great deal of freedom with regard to gender identity."

Sounds like the Americans who were here first figured out, a long time ago, things we're still having arguments about today.

Nikkilovesdresses
12-11-2016, 03:25 AM
I'd like to know if the two-spirits concept was universal among First Nation people or unique to particular tribes.

Also does this concept exist elsewhere among indigenous people, eg Australian Aborigines?

Ellie Summer
12-11-2016, 01:27 PM
I've read that historians agree that two spirits existed in "nearly every aboriginal culture, including virtually all North American aboriginal tribes." When European colonists arrived, they were so disgusted by how perverse two spirits were that they tried to stomp it out before it could even be recorded in history.

Kate Simmons
12-11-2016, 02:02 PM
I have amalgamated both spirits under one authority some time age. I recently realized I also come from a long line of Shamans. :)

Lorileah
12-11-2016, 03:16 PM
I'd like to know if the two-spirits concept was universal among First Nation people or unique to particular tribes.


No, it wasn't. Less than half the tribes tolerated a non-binary sexuality. In some you were ostracized or killed

According to Lang, in most tribes a relationship between a two spirit and non-two-spirit has historically been seen for the most part as neither heterosexual nor homosexual (in modern-day terms) but more hetero-normative; early European colonists, however, saw such relationships as homosexual. Partners of two spirit have not historically viewed themselves as homosexual, and moreover drew a sharp conceptual line between themselves and two-spirits.[37]

Although two spirit have been both respected and feared in a number of tribes, the two spirit is not beyond being reproached or, by traditional law, even killed for bad deeds. In the Mojave tribe, for instance, two spirit frequently become medicine persons and, like all who deal with the supernatural, are at risk of suspicion of witchcraft, notable in cases of failed harvest or of death. There have been instances of murder in these cases the female-bodied two spirit named Sahaykwisā).[38] Another instance in the late 1840s was of a Crow male-bodied two spirit who was caught, possibly raiding horses, by the Lakota and was killed.[39]

Lang and Jacobs write that historically among the Apache, the Lipan, Chiricahua, Mescalero, and southern Dilzhe'e have alternative gender identities.[40][41] One tribe in particular, the Eyak, has a single report from 1938 that they did not have an alternative gender and they held such individuals in low esteem, although whether this sentiment is the result of acculturation or not is unknown.[42]

Among the Iroquois, there is a single report from Bacqueville de la Potherie in his book published in 1722, Histoire de l'Amérique septentrionale, that indicates that an alternative gender identity exists among them.[43]

and
Walter L. Williams, professor of anthropology, history, and gender studies at the University of Southern California, says:

“Some documentary sources suggest that a minority of societies treated two-spirit persons disrespectfully, by kidding them or discouraging children from taking on a two-spirit role. However, many of the documents that report negative reactions are themselves suspect, and should be evaluated critically in light of the preponderance of evidence that suggests a respectful attitude. Some European commentators, from early frontier explorers to modern anthropologists, also were influenced by their own homophobic prejudices to distort native attitudes.”

It is easy to fall into the belief that some cultures are(were) more accepting, but truth is this folklore