Kathy Perez: The 30 Day Crash Course voice feminization

[CostaRicaRachel]

Hi everyone.

I've been on HRT for about 11 weeks. I'm very unhappy with
my voice. I'm consdermnig buying

Kathy Perez: The 30 Day Crash Course voice feminization.

It is not that expensive.

Has anyone tried this.

Any input or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

Rachel

[Pat]

Wow. She's gone up-scale since I last saw her stuff. She had a program called "Exceptional Voice" that ran on smart phones. I used it and it seems pretty good, but you have to be focused and commit to practice. I practiced for a while then fell by the wayside. The phone-based program was kinda klunky but the information was all good. If the crash course is something you can access with a computer it would probably be pretty good.

[Mirya]

Earlier this year, I purchased the Kathe Perez 30-day crash course. I found it helpful as it laid down the foundation for my voice training. Kathe goes over some important concepts that you'll find useful. But, I did NOT have a feminine voice after finishing the course. It was definitely worth it though, and I recommend it.

There's also the Andrea James voice training DVD/video. It costs significantly less than Kathe Perez's course. I tried that too, but it didn't really do anything for me. It did help a lot of other trans women though, so maybe it'll work for you.

It wasn't until I took private voice lessons with a professional voice trainer that I finally starting developing a passable female voice. And now, I get gendered as female all the time based just on my voice, even while on the phone. My voice trainer was already familiar with Kathe Perez's techniques, so I think the time I spent on the 30-day course helped make the private lessons more fruitful.

Thing is, you really need to practice a lot to develop a female voice. I literally practiced an hour every single day (30 min in the morning, 30 min at night) for many months (both 30-day course and private lessons) before I finally found my voice. This is one of the hardest things to do, and takes a ton of dedication and commitment to practice, even if you're not seeing results for a while.

[PretzelGirl]

I will echo Mirya. I took the 30 day crash course and then went with Kathe for personal, one-on-one lessons. The 30 day course is like an introduction. You will likely need to do more (some people seem gifted and get away with little training). The apps are good for some basics, but again, those of us that aren't gifted need more.

[CostaRicaRachel]

Hi everyone

Thanks for your input.

I think I will buy it.

From what I can tell, I believe training your voice is like learning
a foreign language. Regardless of the system you use, you have to work hard and
practice. Without the hard work and practice, you won't get results regardless of the
system.

In 30 days (maybe 32 days) I will let you know what I think :)

Thanks

Rach

[Meghan4now]

Wait, a crash course on a computer? Isn't that kinda a bad idea?

I think the advice here is good. Practice practice practice. Dancing and comportment are easy in comparison

[Rianna Humble]

Wait, a crash course on a computer? Isn't that kinda a bad idea?
:rofl2: :roflmao:

[Contessa]

Hi

A lot of people don't have a lot of money to pay for some of those voice programs. And more don't have money for personal one on one trainer. But singing songs by female singers will also help. Amy Whitehouse, Adele and Pink and others allow you to practice when you want and can. A really deep voice may take a little longer but if you need to try a better voice keep trying especially when you need to. Go for it. A higher voice is what you need not necessarily a squeaky voice. I was told not to change my voice so I have two voices. I have also been told that I sound just like a recently passed writer.

[CostaRicaRachel]

Well, I bought the course on Dec 24 and downloaded it.

I began practicing immediately. At first the exercises seemed impossible, but I kept plugging away. I am getting better, but I am still not good.

The woman on the video teaching the course, Kathy Perez, has such a beautiful voice, the then I listen to myself, and it is so disappointing. But,
I really have no choice, but to just keep plugging away and do my best. I might make a before and after recordings, so if anyone is interested, they
can hear what the course did for me.
\

[Rianna Humble]

Hi Rachel, don't be disheartened by the fact that your first day or two hasn't yet given you the perfect voice - it is a 30 day course after all and as some have said, really only a starting point.

I think your suggestion of keeping before and after recordings to share with people is a very thoughtful good idea.

[Pat]

Rachel -- Part of my job requires a lot of voice recording, so let me offer you a tip: memorize a fairly lengthy block of text (it would be great if it was a speech by a female character in a play or movie) and use that speech as your benchmark when recording so you can always compare apples-to-apples. It should be somewhere between 30 seconds and a minute so you have plenty of time to get into it. Don't use poetry or read off a page because, unless you're trained for it, both of those cause you to modulate your voice differently than in daily speech. ;)

[PretzelGirl]

I certainly wouldn't even get down on only getting so far with a 30 day course. Only the lucky can do 30 days and be done. I did EVA, the 30-day course, then 9 months of every other week sessions and I might sound like Bea Arthur at best. But it gets me by. Remember, it will be different for each of us. Patience and practice.

[Tommie.]

I have been doing the EVA app on the phone and just signed up for the 120 Day Challenge from Kathy. I have had a little luck so far but still not even phone passable. NTL the voice issue seems to really be the key issue to me.... no pressure lol. Best of luck Rachel!

[CostaRicaRachel]

Hi everyone, thanks for the input.

I'm actually getting better at the voice exercises. I'm still a far cry
from a passable female voice. :(

Jennie, I'm going to take your advice and just memorize a 30sec to 1 min
speech and use that as a reference. I hope I hear changes.

From everything I've heard and read, obtaining a passable female voice is a
long difficult struggle, but what other choice do we have?

Rach

[PretzelGirl]

Tommie, a phone passable voice is something more akin to the finish line. A person has no visual cues and may pick up on subtleties in the voice and misgender you easily. If you get gendered well on the phone, then you are doing good. I help my chances by potentially introducing myself (hopefully they don't believe in a boy named Sue) and I make sure that very first sound is higher in pitch. It is almost like that first sound synchronizes listeners ears. So I wouldn't get too worried about phone voice until you are not getting misgendered face-to-face.

[Tommie.]

Thank you Sue... I will use the idea and keep all in mind.

[CostaRicaRachel]

Hi everyone, thanks for the input.

I'm now have way thru week 2 of the program. For me, I think it will be a 35 day program,
I'm on no hurry so I will spend 1 week on each of the 5 chapters.

Week 1 was difficult, but was measureable. Pitch, posture and breathing. The pitch
can be measured with tuner, so it's possible to see your success and failure.

Week 2 is articulation. This is purely subjective. I really can't tell if I am practicing
correctly or not. There is no way to measure articulation, I guess you just have to feel if
you are better or not. I bought a table mirror so I can see myself as I speak. When I
see myself as I speak, I'm reminded to move my mouth more. I believe this is helping.

Also, at the beginning of the course, Kathy mentioned, we should be keeping a journal of
our successes and failures. The first few days, I did not do this, but I began doing it and it
is very helpful. Writing things down helps me remember what I'm doing wrong, right and
the problems I need to work on.

Also, I did not have time to find a long passage to memorize and record, so I used a short passage
I have known since I was a child. I have recorded me reciting the "Pledge of Allegiance".
I've recorded it with my normal voice and after week 1. I plan on recording again at the end of each
chapter to see how I'm doing.

That's the update. I hope everyone had a fun Christmas and New Year's.

Rach

[CostaRicaRachel]

Hi everyone, just a quick update.

I'm practicing, maybe, 1 hour per day, some days a little more.

I just finished the 2nd week and am starting the 3rd week. It is getting very, very difficult. There is
no real way to tell if you are doing the exercises correctly, it's completely subjective. What really worries
me, you get what you practice and if I practice wrong, my voice is wrong. Later, I may have to spend
time trying to undo the wrong voice before I can get to the right voice.

I think I'm at a little of a disadvantage, I'm pretty old, 59, (and you can't teach old dogs new tricks). I've have
no musical talent whatsoever. I can't sing, or even carry a tune.

I'm going to keep plugging away. Some days I think I'm making a little progress, other days, not so much.
I believe it's going to be a long road, but you have to start somewhere.

[Pat]

You might want to see if you can book some time with a speech therapist / vocal coach. As you note, bad habits that get practiced in are hard to correct. I don't know what vocal coaches make these days, but it used to be pretty small money relatively speaking. ;) You don't need to see them often -- maybe once a week for a month then once a month for a few months, then you should be OK on your own.

[jentay1367]

Hey Rachel...are you using the frequency tuner? I use it all the time to check if I'm in A3. I sound like Minnie Mouse to my ear but my SO tells me it sounds more female than what my ear perceives when I try and wing it. So I'm trying to stay at that A3 frequency as much and often as I possibly can. I use Singscope (http://www.singscope.com/en/)...a free tuner I downloaded for my iphone 5s and it's real simple to use. So I just pull it out, turn it on and check where I'm at. Stick with it girl! Don't be hard on yourself and stay positive. They say it takes 21 days to make any change you do to actually stick. That's apparently what it takes to get your lizard brain on board....practice...practice....practice...hope ...pray...hope...practice..pray...hope...cry...pra ctice.....lol

[Tommie.]

Rachel you are not old.... old is when you quit or don't try! You can do voice coaching over Skype and such if the coach or you have an account I guess.... computer peeps know this for sure. I have talked with Kathy on Skype but good coaches are expensive particularly if they are accomplished like Kathy.... I have not found a list of coaches and pricing. Small townees like myself have no access to voice coaches otherwise and if they are here they do not advertise MTF training in this conservative venue lol.

[Mirya]

I don't know what vocal coaches make these days, but it used to be pretty small money relatively speaking. ;)

Kathy Perez charges $150/hour for her Skype lessons. My vocal coach charges $80/hour, which IMO is really cheap given her years of experience teaching transgender voice and her master's vocal education background. I suppose a less experienced instructor would charge "pretty small money" in comparison, but would that even be worth it?


You don't need to see them often -- maybe once a week for a month then once a month for a few months, then you should be OK on your own.

Are you speaking from experience? You only needed weekly lessons for a month, and then once a month after that? And then you had a female voice? If so, I'm really impressed. It took me 2 months of weekly lessons just to get to a usable starting point, and I had a lot of things going for me even before I started my lessons with my voice instructor - such as a very high 170 Hz natural male voice, a musical background, and some time spent doing DIY lessons from Kathy Perez and Andrea James. For the majority of transgender people, they're going to need a lot more private lessons than "once a week for a month then once a month for a few months" to develop a female voice.

[Pat]

You only needed weekly lessons for a month, and then once a month after that?

Not what I'm saying. Sorry if I wasn't clear. If you're following a method, like Rachel is, then you only need to check in with a live, trained person once in a while to have them catch any mistakes you're making as you practice to nip those in the bud before they get practiced in. You need to see them frequently at first because you're still refining your familiarity with the method. You can taper off over time, as long as you're still practicing the same material, because by then your practice routine will be correct. I do not claim to have a female voice and I do not say you only need those check-in sessions to achieve a female voice. My background is in helping performers perform and my experience that I'm admittedly abstracting to this case, is with vocal performers and voice actors not people trying to change their perceived gender.

[PretzelGirl]

Mirya, this might be a case of the speech therapist separating out lessons at a pace they feel is appropriate for you progress. I did 18 lessons in 9 months with Kathe, but they were more erratic than every other week. I was closer in the beginning and further spread out in the end.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

in the end, the real progress is out in the field...

i think without the feedback, you are going to take a very long time for progress, and when you get out there and use it, you'll have no context...

just go out and talk...getting over the internal sense of having to try is just as important as what pitch or resonance....i think most of us would be surprised at how low in pitch we could go and "pass", and i have heard some absolutely AWFUL voices and all of them were in the high pitch area...its almost better to just talk a bit more softly

i tried andrea james and kathe perez cds and found them wanting...i was actually horrified by one of the voices in the cd i got!!

i ended up in an 8 week programs at lasalle university and he had a half dozen of us that he "coached" ...we talked into a mic...and it was an oscilliscope, an amplitude meter and one thing i cant remember! LOL

he coached us AS we talked... i was looking at the pitch meter, and he and an associate gave me prompts and instant feedback...

i bet on skype that is much better use of $$ than anything that doesnt give that type of feedback...

the subtle part is that in the 2nd half i was doing well...my voice is kind of neutral, and i my pitch increase was literally two semitones.........the positive feedback i was getting was fantastically helpful..

also i was already full time when this started...i was making due with whatever voice i had.... i think this is important too....practicing and practicing before going full time is only so helpful

[jentay1367]

Thanks Kaitlyn....your post is almost like a touchstone and point of reference. It is really hard to understand what you're doing and what you should be doing with these programs. Ultimately, it wont stop anyone from transitioning that actually should. There's plenty of cis-gendered women out there with crappy male gendered voices. These women aren't mistaken for males.
We, as a group seem to get hypercritical of every facet of our physical presentation to the point that we can literally become obsessive to the point of an unhealthy neurosis. I'm cognizant of that fact and trying to constantly be mindful. Your post really helps put the whole voice issue into perspective. I'll keep at it, plugging away and do the best I can, but in the final analysis, this like every other thing about my transition, won't and can't be a deal breaker. It is what it is. Lisa

[CostaRicaRachel]

Hi everyone

Thanks for the input. It's helped me a lot. You've given me a lot of ideas.

I did about an hour of exercises this morning, maybe it is not as bad as I thought.

But I have to be realistic. I have been breathing and speaking one way for almost 60 years, and I
can't expect to change it in only 2 1/2 weeks. So, I think, 6 months is probably a more reasonable
time frame to obtain a passable (not necessarily beautiful) feminine voice.

So, I plan on continuing with the course for a total of 6 or 7 weeks. After that, I think I will contact a
voice therapist, maybe a local one or maybe Kathe Perez via Skype, if she is available. ($100 or $150
per hour is not too bad considering what I have spent on therapists and electrolysys.) Then, go from
there.

When I try and speak in public at the higher pitch, I often can't maintain the higher pitch with unfamiliar
words. So I think I am going to make a list of words and phrases I commonly use, practice them at
a higher pitch and see if I can begin speaking them naturally that way. Common words like, "Hi" my name
"Rach", glass of wine (I say that one a lot), please, thank you, (I probably don't use these enough)
How much is it?, etc

We will see how it goes. I'm also recording my voice about once per week, as a record of my progress.
I will post the recordings, maybe they will help someone in the same position as me.

At the end of the 6 or 7 weeks, I will post the recordings (if I can figure out how) to show everyone
how far (or not so far) I've come.

Thanks for the input.

- - - Updated - - -

I'll add one more thing. I agree with all of Katlyn comments. (Of course, I'm an expert, I've been
doing this 2 whole weeks).

One thing is, pitch probably is not the most important aspect of having a feminine voice, resonance, voice
quality, articulation, fluency all may be more important. Pitch can be measured. I don't believe any of
the other aspects can be measured. When you change your pitch, you feel like you are making a little
progress because pitch can be measured.

The other thing I agree with is, one method may work for one person and not for another person. If
this program does not work for me, I will have to try something else.

And, the third thing, I believe speaking feminine is just like learning a foreign language. I lived in Costa Rica
10 years, and I met many people who never learned Spanish (or English) because they were afraid to speak it.
I believe that in order to obtain a feminine voice you need to speak in a feminine voice.

Of course, this is just my opinion after a whole 2 weeks of voice training. :)

[Pat]

As you say, pitch can be measured. Resonance can be felt. There are three places where you can get resonance -- in "the mask" (i.e. your face,) the throat and the chest. Men usually strive to resonate in their chest to sound powerful and in their throat to improve intelligibility -- you will probably feel the resonance leave your chest when you're trying to explain something to someone because you want them to understand what you're saying rather than to overwhelm them with your power. You can touch those areas to feel the resonance -- hand spread over the chest or along the side of your neck. You do need resonance in your speech to sound right, but most people agree that men trying to sound like women do better if they try to keep their resonance in the mask and only occasionally allow it to descend into their throat. Absolutely keep it out of your chest. (I talk a good game, but after more than a year of trying to control my resonance, I still drop into the chest 'way too often.)

In my experience you're correct that you have to practice phrases. I can be nattering along using words and phrases I'm used to and suddenly need to express something I've never said in "girl mode" before and I'll find my voice going out of control and turning into my old voice because that's how my vocal apparatus knows how to say it. It can be embarrassing, but I console myself that nobody that I'm talking to is likely to be surprised to find out I went through male puberty (you make one mistake and it follows you forever...)

[Georgette_USA]

Don't want to discourage any that feel they need to develop a more "female" voice. Some do have a deep resonant voice.

To tell the truth, I have NO idea what I sound like. Few people question me on meeting face to face. Before puberty, I loved to sing soprano with all the other girls, but that changed. I would never sing in public after that.

This last year I fell in with a group that would do Karaoke a lot. I finally decided to give it a go. Others tell me my singing is quite good, and I sometimes get money tips while singing (mostly men but have had 1 woman also) plus requests. I try to sing a variety of songs (fast, slow, light, heavy), exercising my range hi and low. Low tends to hurt my throat, Hi tends to crack if using intensity.

I have always been a chest/diaphragm speaker/singer and project very well. Large family and worked well for work when leading groups of men.

I think the idea of using singing does help to exercise the voice. It helps if you have others listen to you for feedback. Make sure that they can be objective, Too often in this lifestyle people give compliments but few objective criticisms.

[Nicole Erin]

I believe the biggest obstacle for voice training is getting over feeling stupid during early attempts. That was MY biggest hurdle anyways. I think for others, the excuses of "I just cannot" or "I am too old and have been speaking like a man for years" are their biggest hurdles. Get past those, 50% of the battle is won. The question is - how much do you want to do this? Only the undetermined (or those with a serious voice condition) are bound to fail.

You can find plenty of free stuff on the web about how to train your voice.
The problem with a lot of these voice coaching programs is that it is 90% filler and rambling and maybe 10% actual advice on how to do it.
The filler parts just serve to further confuse and over-complicate. I tried one years ago and the audio quality was so bad it put me off. Melanie's "develop a female voice" program.

When you do train your voice or take whatever lessons, here are the essentials to look for -

Really take note of how your throat feels when you gargle, cough up plegm, cough at all, speaking really high or really low or do other non-speaking things with your throat.
Then work on restricting the lower 1/2 of the voice/throat muscles while speaking.
Once you can learn to restrict the lower 1/2 of the voice a little bit, you can fine-tune things from there.
Also, do not expect to like the sound of your female voice nor should you expect it to sound like the angels singing. Nope, we tend to not like the sound of our own voice and very few GG's have a "beautiful" voice, it is (usually) just female.

ALSO - for the first few days, do not spend more than a few minutes a day trying this, it will hurt your throat at first since you are using muscles that are often unused. I think I had a sore throat a few times when I first started learning.

[Mirya]

As you say, pitch can be measured. Resonance can be felt.

This is a good point. Eventually you want to get to a point where you can feel the vibrations in your skull. Then you know that you're resonating from your head. Be careful not to resonate from your nose though - then you'll just sound nasally instead, lol. Even in a noisy room where I can't hear my own voice, the vibrations tell me that my voice is in the right place.

Unfortunately, the Kathy Perez course doesn't really do a good job of explaining how to develop feminine resonance. It just kind of glosses over it briefly. I think it's because developing the right feminine resonance requires different techniques for different people. And so it's kind of out of the scope of the 30-day course. But still, the other things that you learn in the course are useful.

As for pitch, my natural male voice was 170 Hz (I know, freakishly high). So getting up to 230 Hz for my female voice was really easy. For me, it was more about resonance and intonation. Oh, and gestures! I never really used hand gestures before, but women tend to use their hands more while talking, so I worked on incorporating that as well.

[Angela Campbell]

I bought the course a few years ago. I was skeptical at first but had met Kathe and was impressed by what she does. I practiced it constantly. I drove 20 hrs a week at the time so I practiced while driving. After a while it did work. Pretty well I guess. I still refer to it from time to time.

[AmyGaleRT]

I haven't used the course, but Kathe Perez is a friend of mine (a fellow member of the Gender Identity Center Board of Trustees), and I've attended one of her seminars at a conference. She knows what she's doing, definitely. If you have an iPhone or Samsung Android phone, check out the "Eva" apps as well. I often recommend them to others.

- Amy

[April T]

After learning about EVA on another thread, I have purchased the first lesson today. I understand its a time consuming process but every journey starts with a single step.

[MarieTS]

I am curious, do regional accents seem to make a difference? For example, Is it more difficult for say, tg's from the eastern seaboard, the deep south, etc, to transition their voices than for tg's from other areas? And are those dialect and slang differences in elocution discussed in the programs,course work, lessons, etc.?

[Gerrijerry]

I am not saying a book or course is bad or good. However the only way I know of to be able to sound more feminine is to first use the same wording as a woman normally does. Lots of practice and talking slowly so you hear what you are saying.
Plus if your want a feminine voice you might need a little surgery. My was done a few months after SRS. However the way you say things is really what people hear not just the tone of your voice.

Just my feelings.