The book 'The Gene' and SRY gene

[ClosetED]

I am listening to The Gene: An Intimate History by Siddhartha Mukherjee. The 12th and 13th discs go on to the SRY gene which determines if new single cell embryo will form male or female despite XX or XY. Then he goes on to gender identity and genetic factors. How some XY with ambiguous genetalia were raised from birth as female, but still felt gender dysphoria but those XX or XY with ambiguous raised to match their genetic sex never had dysphoria. He also goes onto the "gay gene" near Xq28
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation

So there may very well be genetic factors that predispose to a gender identity difference than your genetic sex and also to your gender preference .

I have not seen this discussed on Forum, so thought it might be of interest. Here is Wikipedia link to that SRY gene. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testis-determining_factor

I know the member Confucious seems well versed on biology, so surprised it was not brought up.
Have others read this book? I am not done with it just yet.
Hugs, Ellen

[Acastina]

Fascinating. I followed the links and found an abstract by none other than Ray Blanchard (he of the controversial autogynephilia hypothesis) reporting a finding that the likelihood of a male being gay increases by 33 percent for each older brother, likely due to sex-specific antigens, produced or encountered in the preceding pregnancies, that affect the brain development of subsequent male fetuses.

Now, I know orientation is a different issue, but the best brain science we have so far suggests that both orientation and gender identity get formed/imprinted/wired at relatively specific times during gestation, and that, once set, don't change and can have a profound effect on how we grow up in a binary, sexed world. My combination is that I am emotionally and historically bisexual, so the two are linked in my case.

I'm a third son, and my one-year-younger sister is my mirror image; overtly masculine, never really dated or had any kind of intimate relationship (with either sex) of which she's ever made me aware, the whole rejecting-femininity-with-a-vengeance thing. A fifth child died in infancy, and our mother then had a hysterectomy.

My hypothesis? Having two (apparently normal) sons did something to my mother's system. Then she had a feminine-oriented male and a masculine-oriented female, and then couldn't deliver a viable infant. I don't know what else to think about the circumstances. Maleness in the "normal" sense always felt toxic to me, and my sister felt the same way about femaleness. Of course, we grew up in the 50s and 60s when so much less was known and virtually nobody talked about such things.

I guess we grasp at such things (which could never really be determined without experimenting on humans in the womb-which ain't gonna happen) to try to understand how and why this happens to some of us despite the immense social pressures against it.

I'm convinced I was born this way, and that my sister was born her way. That does yield some peace of mind that this isn't something I have pathologically willed upon myself, and that it's my responsibility to learn about it and deal with it in my own way without letting a taboo steal my happiness.

[ClosetED]

Other interesting data about "gay gene" being passed down thru maternal line:
However a new study, published in The Journal of Sexual Medicine, found a correlation between gay men and their mothers and maternal aunts, who are prone to have significantly more children compared to the maternal relatives of straight men.

Researchers led by Andrea Camperio Ciani, from the University of Padova in Italy, say that the findings of the link between homosexuality and female fertility strongly support the "balancing selection hypothesis," which suggests that a gene which causes homosexuality also leads to high fecundity or reproduction among their female relatives.

The team noted that the "gay man gene" may not get passed down directly, but instead survive through the generations through future generations making their male inheritors gay.

Researchers analyzed the personality and fecundity of 61 females who were either mothers or maternal aunts of homosexual men to 100 females who were mothers or aunts of heterosexual men.

Originally the team thought the reason why women who inherited the "gay man gene" might have more babies is simply because it increased androphilia, or attraction to men, thus making the male inheritors homosexual and the female inheritors more promiscuous.

However, after analyzing the personal characteristics of 161 female maternal relatives of homosexual and heterosexual men, researchers changed their hypothesis and suggested that rather than making the women more attracted to men and therefore more promiscuous, the "gay man gene" appears to make female inheritors more attractive to men.

"High fecundity, that means having more babies, is not about pleasure in sex, nor is it about promiscuity. The androphilic pattern that we found is about females who increase their reproductive value to attract the best males," Camperio Ciani told Life's Little Mysteries.

The team found that the gene appeared to make women more fertile, have fewer gynecological disorders and fewer pregnancy complications. The findings also suggest that gene led to women who were funnier, happier, more extroverted and more relaxed, leading them to have fewer family problems and social anxieties.

[ReineD]

How does the author explain the SRY gene on XX individuals? It is my understanding that the SRY gene is located on the Y chromosome.

[ClosetED]

There are rare exceptions when it is on an X
http://jmg.bmj.com/content/36/6/452.full

46,XX maleness is a rare abnormality of sex determination with an incidence of 1 in 20 000.1 It is characterised by development of bilateral testes in spite of the lack of a cytogenetically identifiable Y chromosome. Many authors have described phenotypic heterogeneity in this genetic condition, and two main groups of patients have been distinguished. The first one contains the majority of 46,XX males (about 80%), who are characterised by normal male external genitalia. They are diagnosed in adulthood because of infertility.2 In this group of XX(Y+) males, a portion of the Y chromosome is present,3 mostly as a result of recombination between X and Y chromosomes during male meiosis.4 Based on the size of a Y fragment present in this group, three classes of XX(Y+) males were distinguished: class 1 (interval 1, about 40% of cases),5 class 2 (intervals 1 and 2), and class 3 (intervals 1, 2, and 3).6 In the second, less frequent (20%) group of 46,XX(Y−) males, ambiguous external genitalia and a lack of Y chromosome material are typical.7

[ReineD]

1:20,000 is rare indeed. I can see why this doesn't come up very often.

[ClosetED]

The SRY gene isn't as relevant to CDing, but the part about genetic factor of gender identity is as well as the stories of children raised opposite their genetic sex. I personally think knowing that "I was born this way" would ease our minds and society's view of us better, just as society has slowly eased off on homosexuals.
Hugs, Ellen

[Meghan4now]

Hmmm, interesting. How about Sox9 and Foxl2? There is indication that male/female genetic expression may not be entirely stable. The more I read, the less I know. And I'm not convinced about the % per male birth concept. I am #3, but also have two younger brothers that ad far as I know, do not exhibit any trans identity.

On the other hand, one of my two boys is questioning his gender. Dang, and I thought reading Fox in Socks to him was just good safe reading.

[Confucius]

While I haven't read, "The Gene" I am finding this thread interesting.

It seems that more and more research is being done on epigenetics as a causative agent to homosexuality and gender expression. Some have even suggested that everyone has gay genes and that their expression is not activated in the heterosexual population.

You may find this TED talk relevant to the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Khn_z9FPmU&t=939s