"I Get Angry"

[Aloha_Dana]

That is what she said at the apex of our 'conversation'. Before that, she turned away (we were in bed), all the while clearly uncomfortable about the subject.

I feel like back editing all my posts here where I write words like 'hopeful', 'patience' and any timeframes to 'doubtful', 'move on' and 'never'.

After a good night too - I swept her off to bed to make love while the kids were in the bath, she knew I was wearing panties (she saw me put them on, touched them in a heated kiss in the kitchen) we undressed and made love. No big deal

After TV, and back in bed, I asked her how it felt (meaning her hands touching the soft underwear), she said 'soft'. Then I asked her how she felt emotionally and that is when things went downhill. She said she will never tell me that I look pretty wearing women's clothes. I replied saying that is not what I want and pointed out that 1)she does not know what I want and 2) she is clearly upset by this. She did say that she is 'OK' w/catching glimpses of me in underwear and seeing underwear in the laundry. Then she said, "I get angry, jsut so angry" when she sees other stuff (recently a skirt and top). I asked why and she couldn't answer.

After a brief pause I told her about my intention to have a plan for myself that would address all the issues and that I wanted her input, to find her comfort level (basically nil) so that I can have something to follow. She had nothing to say.

So this morning, I was the angry one. She can't talk about it. She is a stubborn ***** (my edit) that has serious issues.

UUUUGGGGHHH. She pisses me off hard sometimes.

Now I'm all upset and stressed out. And I thought things were going well.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Dana

[Kimberley]

I am so sorry for you Dana. I know exactly what you are feeling. I have been there I hope that things will sort themselves out. For me they did not. :sad:

Hugs,
Kimberley

[GypsyKaren]

I'm so sorry you're having these problems at home, that's always a good source for stress. I never understand why wives get so angry over this, but that's an issue I don't feel like getting into today. Anyway, I hope things settle down for you, you don't deserve this at all.

Karen

[Jodie_Lynn]

Sorry to hear about your troubles Dana. Perhaps the two of you need to talk in a 'neutral" setting? when neither of you is emotionally vulnerable and lay out the problem.

Why do women get upset about this? Well, as my wife told me, while she doesn't mind the occaisional experience, she wants reassurance that I am still the MAN she married. And not some 'wanna-be-woman'. It is neither her problem or your problem singularly, but your problem collectively as a couple.

In every relationship, there are issues which will go her way, and issues that will be resolved to your satisfaction. Then there are the issues that require compromise on both parties parts. And sometimes, there are the issues that are deadlocked, where neither party will budge.

Communication is the biggest part of ANY relationship- you need to express yourself and your needs and wants clearly, just as she does. One of the biggest problems couples face is the assumption that "he/she should know..."
How can anyone know anything if the partners aren't willing to communicate?

And Dana, your comment about "serious issues'? Well dear, not to sound harsh, but that cuts both ways. You don't think she is saying the same about you and your "issues'?

Anyway, best of luck, and I hope that you two can work out your differences.

[Julie Avery]

Hang in there, Dana. There's a positive here: issues are being confronted rather than put off for another day. The pain of that confrontation is felt today, not postponed.

Easy for me to say, from outside, but I would try to work on my inner dialogue with myself here, and "talk myself down" from being angry. The anger's ok, it's just a morally neutral fact that you are experiencing that emotion, but you can "talk to yourself" in ways that heighten it, or reduce it, and I'm sure you'll have a better outcome, whatever the outcome may be, the more you're able to "talk yourself down" from being mad.

I apologize if this seems presumptuous.

[uknowhoo]

:hugs: Sorry to hear, Dana.
Marriage can be challenging enough as it is. Adding contention about CDing into the mix can make it even more so. Hopefully you two will be able to talk to each other with compassion, about how you both truly feel, and arrive at an accomodation - until next time :o
Take care and good luck to both of you.
Hugs,
Tammi

[Sophia Rearen]

Hmm, how do I say this delicately? Ok, never mind, sounds hormonal to me. One minute cool and the next off the handle. I'd be willing to bet the monthly bill is in the mail. I speak from experience.

[selina32]

it's obviously very difficult for her to accept, it's strange because i know lots of women that love blokes dressing up. I guess just keep communicating hopefully she'll come round.

[CarmenG]

how do you explain to someone the feel of the hot sun on a summer day if they never have been in summer weather, how do you explain to someone the feel of silk if they have never felt silk, how do you explain to someone how it feels to in womens clothes if they have never been a man wearing women's clothes..... be patient, love her as your wife, accept the limits she sets. otherwise, just move on:straightface:

[DonnaT]

Dana, I've been going through such issues for 30 yrs. I know how frustrating it can be.

Sometimes she's ok, sometimes very upset, and a range of emotions in between. You can't allow yourself to get angry, at least to a point of arguing or showing your anger to her. It'll never help.

If she can't expalin something, ask her to think about it for both of your sake. Let her know that you want to understand her side, and if she can't explain it you have no basis from which to try and understand. Ask her to do the same for you.

How much does she know about the causes of being TG?

[Aloha_Dana]

All, thanks for your support. I really appreciate the pats on the back and the hands to pull me back up. What can I say? Women are women. They fly off the handle w/out warning and change their mind for whatever it is that makes them do that. Sophia, the bill came 2 weeks ago. I think this is just a classic case of her being female.

I can take whatever she throws at me. I do have the patience. I am learning the issues that my Xdressing brings to us. I'll be OK. It's just so frustrating.

Thanks again, Ladies!
Dana

[Aloha_Dana]

How much does she know about the causes of being TG?

Donna, what do you mean by this? Can you explain it a bit?

[Sophia Rearen]

Sophia, the bill came 2 weeks ago. I think this is just a classic case of her being female.


Damn, lost that bet. That's why the only gambling I do, is being a man that enjoys wearing a dress, out.

[DonnaT]

Donna, what do you mean by this? Can you explain it a bit?

That we are born transgndered, that it's a genetic issue. It's not something we chose, but it chose us. That there is no known cure to help us stop.

She needs to understand that our gender identity is hard wired in our brains prior to birth. That the influence of hormones as well as our genetic makeup is the cause for this phenomena. And that it can lay dormant for any length of time from 2 years old to even 70 years old or more, until triggered by something we do or see. Similar to alcoholism which can lay dormant until triggered by a person who has their first alcoholic drink.

Research is ongoing. http://www.tgcrossroads.org/news/archive.asp?aid=770

Once my wife accepted the foregoing, she became a little more tolerant of my needs.

[Aloha_Dana]

Like a big sister, you always come through. I thought that is what you meant, just wanted to be sure. I'll follow up on the link you included.

Mahalo!
Dana

[Julie Avery]

Just don't forget, anger and regret are married for life.

[Sarahgurl371]

Dana, sorry to hear of your frustration. I know all to well how you went from feeling elated that she was "OK" with this, to feeling horrible inside when she acted as though she wasn't the least bit "OK".

My wife and I have been back and forth so many times now is unbelievable. Yep, with each set back I think of the things I have felt and written here and want to change them all. We went from her buying me clothes, applying makeup a time or two, being able to sleep in nighties to - NOTHING. To I disgust her. To she cannot bear the thought of me dressed.

All along the road, I kept asking and asking, Are you OK with this. The last thing I wanted to do is hurt her or make her do something she didn't want to do. Then after months of such a high (the emotional high of feeling accepted and OK with her), BAM!!!!!!!!! Now maybe a divorce again.

I wish I could tell you something to lift your spirits. I can't. Just know that at least here, we understand and offer an ear.

[kathy gg]

For what it is worth, I don't have any nuggets of wisdom..but you said something which I want to agree with:
___________
I really appreciate the pats on the back and the hands to pull me back up. What can I say? Women are women. They fly off the handle w/out warning and change their mind for whatever it is that makes them do tha
______________

In my marriage cding is never the issue.

But I wont' deny that there are things which get me angry and I probably can't explain why. ...hmm..football comes to mind actually....and I knew before I married my sweety that he enjoyed it {football}. So it certainly was not sprang on me, but I have been known to get angry over it {football}. I have flown off the handle and have done so with little warning.

All I can say is this, if football makes me so angry, I can only IMAGINE how angry and confusing it might be to a wife who is not like myself {and digs it}.
I hope you both can reach some level of peace that suits you both.

[susiej]

Dana,

Let me recap.

You talked. You made love while the kids were in the tub (wow, my wife and I never tried that one). She saw you in panties, and earlier in a skirt, and didn't brain you with a frypan, or call a divorce lawyer. She apparently had to remove your panties in order to get what was underneath, and then enjoyed what she found there.

She has anger, but she's hanging in there, trying to understand. She has trouble articulating her anger.

You are blessed with a "problem" for which hundreds of us would give up our most cherished fantasy.

Give her whatever she wants. Kiss her shoes, or whatever other location she wishes. Help her come to grips with her anger, because once she gets it under control, she's going to be *fantastic*.

Hugs,
Susie

[Tamara Croft]

Dana, your wife sounds like me a couple of years ago. I'm just wondering what actual support she has? You have this forum, you can vent, ask questions, get advice etc.... what have you done to help your wife? Have you given her information, websites, leaflets, got emails from GG's here to talk to her? Who does she vent to? has she got anyone except you to talk to?

I find this the most common problem in relationships, theres not enough support, or the wife has no one else to talk to. And yes, I know some have all the support they can get and still can't get their head around it. But even so, I know, I've been there too :(

[ChristineRenee]

You have gotten some good advice already Dana, which I hope that you will take to heart.

Your situation that you described resembles my wife's attitude off and on throughout our 11 + year marriage. Some days she's very agreeable with it...we can go out clothes shopping together for "Chrissie" clothes, etc. And then there are other times where she just seems to not want to be around it or have to deal with it. It isn't a time of the month thing for my wife either. I think in her case, she just doesn't want to be overly and outwardly supportive to the extent that she gives me the impression that Chrissie is who she really wants to be around 24/7. She knows me as Bruce...and refers to me as such...not Chrissie. The only times she refers to me as Chrissie is when she is conversing with one of my friends here in the community. I think that there will always be a part of her inside that will not completely accept this, and that she secretly wishes that it would all just go away.

I think that these are somewhat understandable feelings of GG's who continue to struggle with this issue, and who want to be a supportive SO but without "surrendering" totally and unconditionally to their spouses wants and needs as a CD.

[Anita Mae GG]

I never understand why wives get so angry over this, but that's an issue I don't feel like getting into today.
Karen


Well this could be because we got involved with a man then he tells us he likes to wear womens clothes, not something we bargined for. Some wives can't handle it or accpet it. But we do get angry that we are emotionally attached to this person and they deceived us about who they are and we know we cannot change them because it just is...... so those who do get angry have every right to be given the situation.

I obviously am not one of the angry ones. I am fine with it but you have to think about the overall impact of it. 0.02

[DonnaT]

Well this could be because we got involved with a man then he tells us he likes to wear womens clothes, not something we bargined for. Some wives can't handle it or accpet it. But we do get angry that we are emotionally attached to this person and they deceived us about who they are and we know we cannot change them because it just is...... so those who do get angry have every right to be given the situation.

Which is quite justifiable, initially, or even a few years. But once they've known for more than a few years, and see that the person they married is still the same person underneath the clothes, why maintain the anger?

Likes and dislikes are one thing, but anger is another.

[livy_m_b]

To the same degree as we have "the right to be ourselves", others have the right to have their own hopes, dreams, aspirations.

[GypsyKaren]

Well this could be because we got involved with a man then he tells us he likes to wear womens clothes, not something we bargined for. Some wives can't handle it or accpet it. But we do get angry that we are emotionally attached to this person and they deceived us about who they are and we know we cannot change them because it just is...... so those who do get angry have every right to be given the situation.

I obviously am not one of the angry ones. I am fine with it but you have to think about the overall impact of it. 0.02

Tammy, I do understand why some women get upset when they find out, it's just that I think they really take it to the extreme. They act like they just found out that their husband is really a neo-nazi who wants to get a swatstika tatooed on his forehead, or the ruler of the biggest kiddie and donkey porn empire in the world, or even worse than that, a telemarketer(sorry, couldn't resist). I think they quickly lose sight of the fact that just maybe, after all, this is still a wonderful person and such. Yes, secrets were kept and betrayals made, sorry, you got us there, but an awful lot of everybody has secrets and skeletons and such. I'm just saying it's not the end of the world or civilization, as a lot of wives seem to act when they find out. Anyway, let's save this argument for another day.

Karen

[Dragster]

I'm sorry you're having problems Dana, I expect I'll hit the same wall whenever my wife has read the first 4 chapters of "My Husband Betty" and we have the Big Talk. When you find the way forward (and you will if you keep calm under these frustrating circumstances), let me know so I won't have to re-invent the wheel! There are so many parallels between your life and mine (as we know) it's uncanny. If we didn't live on opposite sides of the world, we could share experiences over a beer or ten!

Good luck mate,
Tony

[Aloha_Dana]

Can you read that mixed up slang? Anyway, thank you all for the posts. I really do appreciate them. Many wise points were made. Thank you.

So that night I was pretty pissed off and I gave her the cold shoulder. Just after the kids went down, I said I needed to go out (play pool and have a couple of beers). She didn't object.

Friday night, no mention of either past two nights by either of us. I guess I was waiting to see if she could figure it out.

Saturday night quite time just before Tivo, sitting arm-in-arm, I asked her if she knew why I was so upset on Thursday night. She guessed, and guessed wrong. So I told her.

I told her that I was really hurt that while I was talking to her, she turned away. I told her that it hurts that we/I am unable to talk about this. And because we can't talk about it, she has unjustified fears (probably not the most accurate phrase, but close enough). She just sat there. Didn't respond. She knew I had some very good points - I saw it in her eyes. But still, no response. No discussion.

So, I let my feelings taper off, then approached her in a positive, communicative way. I'm doing my part.

W/respect to support, I don't know if she has looked for support or not - she hasn't told me. I have offered her that I do have a few resources (this forum), but she hasn't taken me up on it.

I think that this is just very difficult for her. I mean really difficult. She takes a liberal stance to so many issues - gay marriage, being gay, prostitution, personal drug use, personal rights and privileges, but this one is almost unexplainable. Her response has been completely unpredictable.

I get the feeling that it is in conflict w/her expectation/image of what a 'man' is or what I should be. She has these ideals that she holds onto, and she doesn't want them to be changed. One of those ideals is a picture of me, probably when she started to fall in love w/me.

And of course, here I am threatening to shatter her perfect image...

Dana

[Sarahgurl371]

Dana, I am glad you at least got to try and bring it up after a cooling off period. I think your wife and mine are very similar in thier understanding of this subject. Mine really doesn't seem to think this is for real. She thinks I am making it up or something. So she says things, or not, that are really no big deal to her, but to me, they can really be upsetting. I think she doesn't understand that I am sharing my deepest emotions with her, and although she may not like them, I would at least like her to repsect them as real. I always respect her feelings, especially with regards to this.

It is surprising to me that your wife seems very open minded about social issues, yet is having so much difficulty with this. My wife is the total opposite, very conservative in her views socially. I always thought that open minded / liberal thinking folks would have an easier time with this.

I wish you the best.

[Jodie_Lynn]

I think that this is just very difficult for her. I mean really difficult. She takes a liberal stance to so many issues - gay marriage, being gay, prostitution, personal drug use, personal rights and privileges, but this one is almost unexplainable. Her response has been completely unpredictable.

I get the feeling that it is in conflict w/her expectation/image of what a 'man' is or what I should be. She has these ideals that she holds onto, and she doesn't want them to be changed. One of those ideals is a picture of me, probably when she started to fall in love w/me.

And of course, here I am threatening to shatter her perfect image...

Dana


It isn't surprising that she can accept and advocate for social issues for "other people", but there is a different response when it comes to your own household. I'm not bashing her, and I'm very happy you got the chance to speak your feeling to her, but be careful of pushing too far, too fast. It may make her feel pressured.

And that is the issue. She can accept 'aberrations' in others because it doesn't affect her directly, but when it hits close to home, it causes one to reevaluate their opinions, outlook, and circumstances.

Just take it one day at a time, and don't nag her about it. If you take every quiet opportunity to plead your case, she may very well come to resent it.

Good luck, and please keep us informed.


~Jodie-Lynn

[Aloha_Dana]

and, "I hate it. I hate it. I hate it." and, "I can fold your underwear, but I just wish it would go away." Just a few of the phrases that she expressed last night.

Last night we took a turn for the worse. I had too much to drink and pushed it, trying to get her to talk - just talk.

I apologized for not telling her while we were dating. I told her that I'm TG'd and there is nothing she nor I can do about it accept learn. I pushed her to talk and I got the above replies. Of course she was in tears.

She is torn, ripped in half. She isn't proud of her feelings towards this issue at the least, but that is how she feels. She said she is aware of the positive aspects that a CD can bring to a relationship (though we haven't talked about it - she must have read it from "My Husband Betty" or found another source). I pointed out that several of my traits that she has liked about me from day 1 are of the feminine side - that she knows part of Dana. These things just made her very upset. It hurts her to say these things to me, but I'd rather her express herself than not. She is afraid to say these things to me because she doesn't want to hurt me.

But, dammit, sometimes you have to dig deeper to get the splinter out before it can heal properly.

Myself, I am torn in many ways too. I feel for her. I'm sorry. Yet I don't know what to do. I know I need to cool it for a while and apologize. But for me, I'm struggling. Do I go back to hiding everything? Or do I draw the line? Sweeping it back under the rug isn't going to solve anything and I think it is the easy, cop out. I believe this would be her preference. Drawing the line is harsh, but it has merit in that we (as a human w/conviction) need to take a stance and say who we are. Somewhere in the middle is the answer. I don't know.

Well, here is a true test of love. I've given her all she needs to decide to have an affair.

Dana

[Julie Avery]

What if, for now, you suggested to her that you would only dress at home and then only when not in her presence, with the understanding that this was in no way an attempt to do something behind her back? Might that take the issue off the front burner, where nothing seems to be moving forward right now, and give you both time to digest what's happened so far, while slowly defusing the "deception" accusation?

Just a stab in the dark on my part. Your painfully honest and thoughtful accounts of what you're going through are a great contribution to this site, IMHO, thank you for taking the time and effort to communicate it here.

[sherri]

Just curious Dana - how would you compare/equate your wife's level of distress to what you would experience if you quit dressing?

Don't read that as an opinion that you should quit. I just feel for both of you.

[unclejoann]

But we do get angry that we are emotionally attached to this person and they deceived us about who they are 0.02
I don't like this term "deceived". Have any of us who didn't tell our wives consider ourselves as being deceptive? CDing, for me, comes and goes and when involved in a new relationship it just isn't in the forefront.

Why would I marry someone thinking I was deceiving her? there are lots of things I didn't tell her and still haven't. I couldn't possibly tell her everything ... she doesn't listen that well anyway.

[Sarahgurl371]

Dana, I here you. I found that at least telling her, kinda lessoned my guilt like I was doing something behind her back. I don't think it helped her though. We are still stuck like you described it in your lost post. Do I draw a line, does she? Do I sweep it under the rug, knowing it won't solve a thing?

I really wish I could help you out. For me, I have just become completley honest, about anything she asks. It is painful for us both, but I think its better than not being that way. I try not to push and bring it up. But I can only go so long with this "black cloud" hanging over our heads everyday. I try to repsect her and her feelings. I have read alot about what she must be feeling and thinking from GGs here and elsewhere. I know that this must be a terrible thing for her. I know it is for me. I figure she at least deserves the complete truth so she can make up her mind. Mind you, this has come about over a period of a couple years.

The marraige counselor we saw said to me. "you have to decide how much, and how important this is to you. Then you have to decide if you can exist within your marraige." He told my wife' "you have to decide if you can live with this or not." I am still waiting after over 2 years for her answer. I am afraid its a long road.

Best of luck.

PS, not to lecture but.... alcohol usually doesn't help emotionally charged situations alot.

[Aloha_Dana]

Julie, I forgot to add in the personal msg that I don't go out. She's never seen me en femme and has seen maybe half of my things. Over the past year I've been testing the waters by slowly bringing out more stuff, one or two at a time, in rotation w/others. I think I have my answer now.

Sherri, we haven't chatted in more than a year, and look at where I am? Back to the same ole game. I think her level of distess is > than mine would be if I were to qui.... but we know we can't quiiii... We can hide it, but not give it up. I think I can see your point, but I'm gonna ask that you spell it out for me. OK?

Tammy, I totally agree w/your post. I want to be completely honest w/her. She deserves it. I deserve it. But, I really don't think she wants to know and or see anything. I do believe we need to talk about it, so I have to remain avialable whenever she is. But I have to learn to back off and let her lead.

We do need (at least I feel we do) to come to some agreement how, when, $$, etc. Where I do have control, and I think this is where Sherri is going, is how much she sees. And this was one of the issues I set out last night, was that I can keep my stuff out of her sight, but I would need a place to put them. I'm done hiding stuff. Done hiding the $$ trail. But I don't need for it to be in her face. There are resolutions to all these issues. That's what I'm working towards.

W/respect to what your therapist asked, those are good questions. I'll keep those in mind.

Dana

[TxKimberly]

Tough situation to comment/advise on but . . . for a moment let's look at it from HER point of view.
She finds that the man she married, the man she expects to take care of her, the man she expects to take care of her children, the man . . . is something other than what she had any possible expectation of. Of course it makes her mad - the story book picture/fairytale she has dreamed of all of her life has just changed into something that she never, ever, imagined or considered. If you want any hope of HER understanding and accepting YOU, than you need to also make an effort to see things from her side of the fence. If your entire picture of the rest of your life was just turned on it's ear, you might be a bit miffed yourself.

Kim (once again the heavy)



That is what she said at the apex of our 'conversation'. Before that, she turned away (we were in bed), all the while clearly uncomfortable about the subject.

I feel like back editing all my posts here where I write words like 'hopeful', 'patience' and any timeframes to 'doubtful', 'move on' and 'never'.

After a good night too - I swept her off to bed to make love while the kids were in the bath, she knew I was wearing panties (she saw me put them on, touched them in a heated kiss in the kitchen) we undressed and made love. No big deal

After TV, and back in bed, I asked her how it felt (meaning her hands touching the soft underwear), she said 'soft'. Then I asked her how she felt emotionally and that is when things went downhill. She said she will never tell me that I look pretty wearing women's clothes. I replied saying that is not what I want and pointed out that 1)she does not know what I want and 2) she is clearly upset by this. She did say that she is 'OK' w/catching glimpses of me in underwear and seeing underwear in the laundry. Then she said, "I get angry, jsut so angry" when she sees other stuff (recently a skirt and top). I asked why and she couldn't answer.

After a brief pause I told her about my intention to have a plan for myself that would address all the issues and that I wanted her input, to find her comfort level (basically nil) so that I can have something to follow. She had nothing to say.

So this morning, I was the angry one. She can't talk about it. She is a stubborn ***** (my edit) that has serious issues.

UUUUGGGGHHH. She pisses me off hard sometimes.

Now I'm all upset and stressed out. And I thought things were going well.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Dana

[TxKimberly]

No way you really believe this!

How can any of us imagine that our not mentioning this to the woman we intend to marry is nothing but a minor over sight, something that wasn't deemed important?! I have kind of a saying that i like to try and life by and it more or less boils down to "BS others if you have to but NEVER BS yourself.

Most of us (not all I'm sure) declined to tell the women we were going to marry for very understandable reasons and I'll not bore you with repeating them here. But let's NOT BS ourselves into believing that it was such a minor thing it didn't deserve mention.

Lest you think I'm coming off as "holier than thou", I did not tell my wife before we were married either. But I don't tell myself that this was just one of many little details I didn't share.

Kim (really stirring up trouble tonight)




I don't like this term "deceived". Have any of us who didn't tell our wives consider ourselves as being deceptive? CDing, for me, comes and goes and when involved in a new relationship it just isn't in the forefront.

Why would I marry someone thinking I was deceiving her? there are lots of things I didn't tell her and still haven't. I couldn't possibly tell her everything ... she doesn't listen that well anyway.

[Aloha_Dana]

The Happy Ending? Maybe to the harsh exchange, but we're far from the end (what ever that might be).

Waiting for her when she got home was an apology love letter and flowers. So, yeah, we kissed and made up. She reconfessed her true love for me and readmitted that there are some things I do that she doesn't like (about me), but she does love me.

I'm happy that we can 'kiss and make up' yet I still want more. I want more discussion. I want some sort of resolution. I need to know where I fit, where Dana fits. Definately I can read between the lines here and figure it out, but that is a one sided approach. I want her input as well. Maybe this is one last attempt to push it in her face. I don't know. I guess I need to count my blessing and let'r drift for a while. *sigh*

I think I need to go shopping.

Thanks for reading and all your feedback. Your support has been a great help.

Cheers!
Dana

[unclejoann]

Gee, Kim, I hope you don't slam the door that hard.

But you are right. Except that I had a lot of trouble just bonding to someone new at that time, I was kind of confused, shy, and all that. I was not thinking that keeping quiet on this would be "deception." But I suppose now that I would agree that it is.

[Dragster]

Dana,
I'm glad that you've kissed and made up, and that you've both said you still love one another, but I've no advice to offer you on where you go from here. I'll be watching out for further developments, out of an interest in you, but also because I suspect that I will encounter a similar response when eventually my wife finishes reading the first 4 chapters of "My Husband Betty" (10 months now!), and we have the "Big Chat". At least, from your experience, I'll know to try and not to let my frustration determine my response, but then sometimes it's better to let your true feeelings show, and then kiss and make up. The bond always seems stronger just after!

Good luck to you both,
Tony

[DonnaT]

Dana, ever thought about taking her to a drag performance?

Maybe it will get her to ask questions, maybe not.

However, note that no matter how hard you try, pushing for a discussion doesn't look like it's going to work. Maybe she can put her thoughts and questions in writing. So, instead of pushing for a discussion, let her know you would like to know what her thoughts are, and ask she keep a journal on you computer that you can read and type in your responses.

Just make sure to read and re-read your responses so they don't sound angry or accusatory.

[sparks]

Let me just say that if you think she is done communicating she isn't. Believe Women are more than just beautiful they are intriguingly insightful. My wife and I hadn't discussed my dressing for years and one day BAM! Opra had a show on trannyisms. Buddy or chicky after years of aggression and three or four marriages gets it finally "I need to be a woman" He tells the latest Wifey! Wow devestation on Wifey's part, Upside he probably won't hit her anymore except a light slap now and Again. Sorry a little sarcassam.
Anyway he goes on to tell an exceptional story we all felt like crying. We all know cause we live it. I'm a female trapped in a male body. Bingo!
My wife looks at me and says is that how you feel. Truly taken aback a few paces I of course said "Yep"
She asked again a crushing question for her and me "would you undergo the operation"
My reply was "too late in life for that kind of wierdness"
She said "not really you are only 32."
I said in a different time I would definitely think about but we have kids and a great life together"
Here's the kicker She asked in a more feminine way "Would you lob the boys off or keep them attached?"
I couldn't even think of a reply to that immediately. After a moment of thought I replied "Keep em"
Now that's a true scary story "WE DON'T EVEN WATCH OPRAH!"
Anyway the point here is this. The doors of communication are never truly closed. They may be boarded up for a while but someone or something will rip the boards down.
We generally don't discuss the panty/bra affair. Unless I've done something stupid or accidently hurtful. Just a hint don't let your wife catch you rubbing her panties on your face. Kidding.
I plan on opening them up again after five years. when I feel a little more educated on her feelings. Of course finding some support for her as well. I've got the girlz backing me but what does she have. Tell a friend and alienate both of us or talk to her mom now there is a very frightening story.
As you are both doing probably is taking defensive sides. Hopefully you meet in the middle. I will never push this issue cause I love this woman with everything I've got and sometimes it's just a thread but in the end I will still thank God we have fought a good fight to remain a couple.

Sorry As Dennis Miller says "I don't want to get on a rant here" but once I do it is an awkward ramble on the subject.

[HaleyPink2000]

Dana my Sister, Join the group hun.
Been there, got the Tee Shirt. So to speak!

It's like with my wife , She's slowly figuring some things out. But believe me I'm not pushing. I have Tamara and others to thank for Getting my wife started thinking about several things. One of those is that other wives seem to except this after a while. The bad one for me is the Sin issue. That is the big one. But I dress at home and go to bed even dressed. Her big one is going to the TriEss meetings or going out dressed. Don't get me wrong, theres no sex while dressed either. Thats a NO NO! Also there are other lines I don't cross. I'm waiting for time to pass and for Her to grow more excepting of the Female side of me. The Side that wants to wear pretty things and not have to be the MAN that wears ugly clothes. Dana, I have to tell you this one thing. You've come to the correct place for help here on this forum.

Haley:)

[Kitty Sue]

TxKimberly I am with you. When dating a woman CDing is always in my mind. I always wonder how she would accept my CDing. Thankfully I have let the other person know within the first 3 months of the relationship this is part of who I am. I feel 3 months is a good time period. At that stage we are getting to know each other a little better and if she cannot accept my CDing we can part ways. Three months is just enough time for the pain of breaking up not to be unbearable.

[Sarah Rabbit]

Dana

I Feel for you. I wish there was words of comfort. I am not as deep as some on this site, but my heart is there for you.

Hugs & kisses, Sarah R. :bunny: