How do you justify your total makeover with your masculinity?

[Billy]

Logically there are complications with adopting a femme voice, appearance, and personality while maintaining a strictly heterosexual stance.

I would like to understand your perspective. Furthermore, I think if I can understand it and we can discuss this logically it would go a long ways toward SO acceptance issues.

Transforming into a passable female would seem to conflict with everything masculine.

Would a significant other of a fully dressed CD'r feel they were somehow involved in a lesbian relationship?

Does acting female attract male attention?

No judgement from me here. I am just trying to understand how heterosexual all or nothing crossdressers justify their femme side to themselves or others.

If justify is the wrong word then by all means please try to understand the question and help me understand.

Thanks

[Sashauk]

Would a fully dressed CD'r appear to be desiring a lesbian relationship while making out with a female?
Obviously the subject partner would have some confusion.
Thanks

Personally I have never had a full makeover and the one and only time I had sex with my ex-wife when wearing lingerie I can't say I felt like a lesbian.

What is also worth considering is the female side of the equation. Do they feel like they are in a lesbian relationship when making out with a man dressed as a woman?

[Billy]

Yes the partners feelings are worth discussing.

[Krisi]

Personally, I have no trouble justifying my crossdressing. I don't think it does anything to my masculinity or heterosexual stance, except that I don't look very masculine as Krisi.

As for that lesbian thing, it's something that gets said time after time here but I'll bet you won't get a positive reaction if you go to a lesbian bar and tell the ladies that you are a "male lesbian".

Sometimes people just overthink things and I believe that's what you are doing here. We are all different and have different reasons for doing what we do.

[Billy]

While I would agree that a lesbian would reject a CD'r as lesbian, a spouse or significant other might question the sexual orientation of the relationship when in bed with Pauline instead of Paul.
I don't think there is anything wrong with thinking or "overthinking." Is there a better group or website to ask these questions? Would you think that a GG would feel the same making love to Pauline as Paul? Obviously people here have experience with this don't they?

There is probably a very common reason why GG significant others often don't want the femme persona in their presence.

[Sallee]

I agree to some degree. Acting and presenting fem certainly causes males to notice you. Now whether you like it or not is a different story. Does it make you gay because males are attracted to you I don't think so. BUt I can certainly see the confusion in others when the see you. I don't understand why women, gg, are attracted to men but they seem to be. I guess we can't justify our sexuality it just is. Why are some women attracted to other women? or some men attracted ot other men. Why do you like a certain painting? All of these are really unanswerable questions or at least beyond must of us

[Judith96a]

As for that lesbian thing, it's something that gets said time after time here but I'll bet you won't get a positive reaction if you go to a lesbian bar and tell the ladies that you are a "male lesbian".


While I would agree that a lesbian would reject a CD'r as lesbian

You're both very keen on stating your opinion as to what lesbians would or wouldn't do, but without any apparent experience. Have you tried talking to any? The girls whom I've encountered in the past have exhibited a variety of responses, from "euch, that's weird" (negative) to "oooh, kinky!" (positive) with lots of (neutral) curiosity as well.


There is probably a very common reason why GG significant others often don't want the femme persona in their presence.
If you're looking for a single, simple, explanation then you're in for a disappointment. The simplistic answer is that crossdressing has been very effectively stigmatised for centuries. As a result, it undermines society's concept of masculinity and the societal norms, with which girls are indoctrinated from birth, is that women like masculine men! And it's not merely indoctrination, there's genetic programming in the mix too. Therefore, to most women, a crossdressing male Is neither fish nor fowl, neither a masculine man nor a feminine woman - to misquote the robot from Lost in Space, we don't compute!
That's the simplistic theory. In reality however, you will get as many subtly different answers as there are GGs in the world who have crossdressing SOs!
As the physicists are beginning to realise, there is no simple single unifying "theory of everything"

[Billy]

I have little practical experience in regards to lesbian tendencies. I am simply asking input from people. I can only use logic, thus I seek practical input.

I would think that a GG in bed with a male might think nothing of a panty swap and might even think it cute. He take on an entire female persona might be totally different. Thus the clothing might be of little impact but the persona transformation a big deal.

[Cheryl T]

Why does this always come back to sex??
I began my journey long before puberty. Yes, early on there was a sexual component, but that took a back seat to my emotional side.

[StephanieM]

I believe it comes back to sex because so many people confuse this with sexuality. That's why the typical first question when one finds out about this is, "are you gay?".

For some this is sexual, for some of us this is totally separate from our sexuality even though it may have developed from a sexual thrill initially.

For me it's not sexual and for intimacy I am in man mode 100%.

[Samantha2015]

How do you justify your total makeover with your masculinity?Hmmm I guess I don't. I certainly don't dress to attract men. If a man thought I looked like a gg I would be flattered
but I would make sure not to lead him on. If a man tried flirting with me (regardless if he knew I was a CD or not)
I would find it kinda creepy. I'm a guy most of the time, I know how guys think. I think the same way when I see a pretty gg.
My dream would be to find a girlfriend gg that doesn't mind me dressing from time to time. But if she doesn't want the other girl in the bedroom I would completely understand that.

[CarlaWestin]

Hi Billy. I didn't even read this post but, I get the feeling that your posts are primarily ying vs yang for litralerity sensationsation.
And I'm down with that!
It gets people to respond.
Keep it up, Sis.

[Aunt Kelly]

In reality however, you will get as many subtly different answers as there are GGs in the world who have crossdressing SOs!
As the physicists are beginning to realise, there is no simple single unifying "theory of everything"

Well put, Judith. You hit every point I was going to make and summed it all up the same way I was going to - it's just not that simple.

My wife and I have been intimate while I was dressed, but I don't think either of us would think of ourselves as lesbians during those times. On the other hand, I've had (long ago) two female lovers (no, not at the same time) who were bi. While I was never dressed with them, apparently I fell right into a "role" (for lack of a better term) that they both noted was much like that of their previous female lovers. Did that make me a lesbian? Of course not, but it would be hard to argue that those relationships weren't closer to that than any other I've ever had.

Again, the labels and boxes seldom work. We're all different and parts of us will invariably fall between the cracks.

[DIANEF]

Billy, an interesting question but simply put I am a straight male who crossdresses. I don't do it to attract any attention, male or female, I do it purely for my own needs and I don't need to justify it in any way. I am an 'all or nothing' type and try to look as passable as possible, but in male mode I'm just a very ordinary guy. I've also never felt the need or want to bring any aspect of my CDing into the bedroom. Although in my head I have a strong femme presence, on the outside I can completely seperate Diane from the male me.

[Fiona123]

I consider my self transgender. I am uncomfortable with masculinity and would prefer a feminine presentation. I am not interested in attracting males, if a male is attracted to the feminine me that's his problem. I don't mind that I contradict "everything masculine". Perhaps the issue is an overly rigid idea of masculinity and gender.

[Louise DK]

I dont have to justify anything, its not a sexual thing to me, so Im not trying to attract anybody, be it male og female. And I allso do not become a female persona, Im still just me, I dont have a feminine voice, I dont get more emotional than I usually am or anything like that. I do however move about a little different than when Im in homme so to speek, I dont want to walk around like a cowboy in a skirt.��
As I said its not a sexual thing for me, so i dont dress up to be intimate with my wife. She is very supporting of me crossdressing, but in bed Im the man.
I allso do not understand the persitant connection to sex within this Forum, where people should know Better. I think the vast majority of the members here, do not see their crossdressing as a sexual thing.

As for the male lesbian thing... Just No! No matter how you are dressed, you are still a male. And a male and a female is not a lesbian relationship. A female with another female or a transitioned transseksual woman and a GG is on the other hand a lesbian relationship.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Perhaps 'How do you reconcile your total makeover with your masculinity' might be more on the money?

It seems to me the majority of members here have no difficulty at all in reconciling their two sides; the ones who have the problem are their partners. But some of those (gg) partners are actually turned on by their partner CDing. If I were a gg I know I would be, but then I'm bi so 'anything goes'.

[Micki_Finn]

I don't dress to "obtain" sex. How I'm dressed doesn't affect my sexual desire if I am dressed feminine it doesn't make me any less of a man or any less attracted to women. A butch lesbian is still just as much of a lesbian as a lipstick.

I feel like this thread does us a great disservice by blurring the lines between sexuality and gender identity. They are two separate things.

[Fiona123]

I feel like this thread does us a great disservice by blurring the lines between sexuality and gender identity. They are two separate things.

Well said Micki!

[Billy]

Original post slightly changed. I did not intend this to be about sex but rather how to reconcile this femme persona with one's masculinity and with a female significant other.

- - - Updated - - -


if I am dressed feminine it doesn't make me any less of a man or any less attracted to women.



A male dressed and presenting themselves as a beautiful female could send mixed or confusing signals to the woman that you are attracted to.

[Sarah Louise]

Billy, it's a very interesting question. I don't care for the view that we shouldn't over-think why we dress. I would love to know why I dress and love to try and analyse why. I've not found the reason why yet and probably won't. But I don't worry about it.

I've just had a night out with fellow CD'rs and the only male attention we got were from a few guys who like men dressed as girls. Fortunately there's not many about as we don't want such attention. If I was attracting hetro male attention then I would be doing an amazing job on my presentation, but I don't want to attract any men whatsoever. I don't want to attract any male attention of any kind. I just want to look as pretty and feminine as I can. I don't know why, but I love it when I get complimented on my appearance. But there's nothing sexual at all in this. I'm quite comfortable expressing my female side then going back to normal male mode afterwards.

[Tracii G]

Billy logic has nothing to do with it.
Thats where your train of thought fails because you assume things always follow a logical pattern.

[Billy]

Yes I believe that logic fails. That is why I ask the questions. Thanks

[Gabriella111]

To provide a GG perspective, my boyfriend doesn't do full female. No wig (and he's got a typical guy short haircut), only light makeup if any at all, but he does change his voice and mannerisms, so he throws off a very feminine vibe when dressed, even though he's very masculine from the neck up. And he's emotional in more feminine ways. That explained, we both comment about how he's my boyfriend/girlfriend (or bgf, as he texts it). Still, even if he were totally en femme, I don't think I would think of him as my girlfriend. Even he will say he is still a man, even when dressed. He isn't transgender. He very much likes that he's got feminine qualities, but he also very much embraces many of his masculine ones.

For the intimate side of the relationship, for the rare occasion that he falls into a female role, in my mind, he's still him... it's just a role. Regardless of however I feel in that moment, it doesn't extend to the relationship as a whole, if that makes sense. It's just play; nothing more than that.

[Edit] I really dislike gender binarism. The problem with the labels and the boxes is that there are too few and they are too exclusive.

[Teresa]

Billy,
I admit I have AGP, so I wish to be seen and accepted as a woman, I have that gut feeling 24/7 , it never goes away . The only conflict I have is an internal one between my male and female side, I prefer the female side.

Yes my wife does tell me she only wants the man she married , that she's not a lesbian but she does admit I'm part female, if you have GD then it's the only way to deal with .
Now I go out socially I don't feel like a man in a dress, I'm satisfying an inner need, it's not to justify anything, I am accepted as the woman I wish to be and it feels good.I can't say if it attracts male attention, our Xmas party was open to the public and I danced with other guy's wives most of the night while they propped up the bar, the women appeared to love it, which I find wonderful.

If you don't understand yourself and why you have a need to dress maybe you should sit down and write your history down from when and how your CDing started. The penny may drop like it did with me, it suddenly became much clearer that I was born like it and since joining the forum discovered it's for life.

As for the sexual element I'm afraid it does come into it for some of us, my CDing started with it , as I said I have AGP , I had a GF who accepted it purely because she knew how it turned me on at the time so she got what she wanted out of it, it never crossed our minds if she felt like a lesbian . I do wear a nightie in bed but since the change of life ten years ago she hasn't been interested in me, so it doesn't concern me that she claims she's not a lesbian , it doesn't change how I feel . Sometimes I feel it's cop out when women say that , I would prefer them to honest and say they don't feel that adventurous with sex, when it's between two people what does it matter .

[Tracii G]

[Edit] I really dislike gender binarism. The problem with the labels and the boxes is that there are too few and they are too exclusive.

I soo agree with this comment to a point but there are too many boxes and labels.
I get so aggravated with younger trans people claiming to being something exclusive on the trans scale like its a badge of honor and no one else is allowed to be what they are.
Some have told me I have no idea what being TG is even tho I have been TG longer than they have been alive.
I'm not sure if the whole snowflake generation thing about being "special" is part of why they have such a crappy attitude towards others.

[Helen_Highwater]

As someone in the closet I guess I'm speaking hypothetically. If out, and accepted by my SO, I wouldn't want to take my dressing into the bedroom. Fully dressing holds a different draw for me. In the same way I wouldn't go dressed to a big match at a stadium as I like being able to shout, chant, urge my team on in full blooded male mode, the sexual aspects to our relationship have a different dynamic. I hope I'm tender and loving when the time calls for it but I don't want to be one half of an all girl relationship.

I have no issues with reconciling my dressing and my intimate relationship. They're separate.

[susan54]

Going back to the OP this is an interesting question. I am not transgender and do not think of myself as a woman when i go out - I am just acting. I used to go out 2-4 times a month but I only went out twice in 2016. I am becoming more uncomfortable with pretending to be a woman even though all those interact with know I am male. It no longer fits my own feelings of masculinity but it only applies to going out. I still spend almost all my time at home fully dressed except wig and make up. I have a reason to go out tomorrow to dressmaker and sales but I don't really want to.

[Gabriella111]

I soo agree with this comment to a point but there are too many boxes and labels.

I'm meaning mainstream. There's Male, Female, and we're just getting Transgender into the mainstream. That doesn't fit my boyfriend. Genderfluid, I suppose, is closest.

But there are a TON of them used within the LGBTQA+ community. That + is huge.

[Becky Blue]

Billy perhaps this may assist. How do i justify my makeover with my masculinity? Simple i don't. Why does a person have to do that?

For those of us on here who transform totally whether we are CD or Trans? the whole point is to get away from our masculinity even if only for a couple of hours. When i dress i don't think of myself as a guy, I am simply Becky and I love every moment I get to be her.

Secondly to answer your question Yes I have attracted male attention, do i seek it? No. Do i like it? Yes, it legitimises my femm feelings. Do I act on it? No I have zero attraction or interest in men.

No matter how I am presenting my sexuality does not change. I am attracted to women, but when i am Becky I am having way too much fun to be bothered with sexual matters, they are a distraction.

Well said Judith, i have had some experience with Lesbians, having gone with some Tgirlfriends to a couple of Lesbian bars over the years. We always asked politely at the door if we could come in and were always welcomed. We always kept a low profile, and whilst many of the women there were very friendly, there were a few that clearly were not happy with our presence, which was fair enough. Many of the women we spoke too felt almost honoured and a bit bemused that we wanted to be like them. There was no mention of matters sexual at all at any stage anywhere.

[Lorileah]

Logically there are complications with adopting a femme voice, appearance, and personality while maintaining a strictly heterosexual stance.

You're new here, you will learn that your gender presentation has NOTHING to do with your sexuality



Transforming into a passable female would seem to conflict with everything masculine. Your point? See above

[bridget thronton]

I am not sure I care about either masculinity or femininity. I am me. If I get a makeover it is you make myself feel better about my appearance.

[Ceera]

I'm gender fluid. I can be comfortable living in either gender presentation. I am also single/widowed, so my SO's reaction to my cross-dressing or gender fluidity isn't a factor for me. I don't have a current SO of either gender, but any new relationships I have would be with someone who can accept both sides of me. Some males certainly are attracted to me as a female (they have told me so and demonstrated their interest), and it doesn't bother me. Some females are still attracted to the female version of me as well.

When I am en-femme, in my girl-mode persona as Ceera, my female side is 'in control', and wants to look as feminine as possible. I can shift my voice to a reasonably feminine sounding one, and I can talk comfortably with strangers and be taken for a woman. As Ceera, I self-identify as female. I also self-identify as bisexual but primarily lesbian. I'll date or dance with or get affectionate with a male, if the circumstances are right, but all other things being equal, a female will get my attention more often. I don't look, act or sound like a 'guy in a dress'. I look, act and sound like a woman, to the best of my ability. My ears are pierced and I keep my body shaved, and my eyebrows shaped to feminine standards. I also have my nails done professionally, 24x7, as feminine-shaped acrylic nails with pretty polish. I get a full makeover occasionally, to look my best for a special event, or just to be pampered and made beautiful. My only 'justification' for the expense or for making myself look more beautiful is that my feminine self enjoys it.

Most of Ceera's friends when I go out in public are lesbians. I can tell you, from my personal experience, precisely how they react to a MtF CD who presents well as a woman, and who is also presenting themselves as a lesbian. And not just from one group of lesbian ladies, but from two separate and unrelated groups of them, in different cities and states (Austin, TX and Eugene, OR). They have accepted me just fine as one of their social circle, and I haven't met one yet who had any problem with me professing to be a lesbian myself. Usually, they are intrigued and admiring of my presentation, and quite welcoming to me. Even the most butch-dyke ladies in the group have had no issues with me. They seem to take it as a complement that I prefer to socialize with them as a woman. One group of them even encouraged me to participate in a ladies-only speed dating session, and a few of the lesbian-identifying ladies at that session were interested in possibly dating me. Now I am honest with any potential partner that I am MtF and have not medically transitioned, and most of the lesbians I know have stated that while they will happily socialize with me and dance with me, they wouldn't choose to date me. But some (about 10% to 20%) would, and some have - either with me or with other MtF CD's that I know personally. Mostly that subset of lesbians are women who feel they are primarily lesbian, but also that they are bisexual. Just as I prefer women, but will occasionally accept a man, so do they. It's a small subset of them who would date us, to be sure, but it exists. I've met them. I will also acknowledge that there are certainly some lesbians who are uncomfortable around anyone who isn't a lesbian GG. Primarily those are rape survivors, or women with other abusive incidents in their past. I acknowledge that they often have a good reason not to want to be around any males, not even an MtF CD/TG girl, and I won't push that association if they have made their feelings known to me. So far, I have only encountered that extreme in forum messages for a meetup group, with one or two women who stated they only wanted to attend meetups that would be 100% women.

When I choose to present as my male birth gender, I'm still bisexual, and still tend to prefer women as partners - making me primarily heterosexual. I'm somewhat less inclined to be open to attention from other males while I am presenting male, but that is mainly because I repressed my feminine side and my bisexuality for most of my lifetime. I'm not insecure about my masculinity, and for the most part I really don't care what anyone else thinks about me having pierced ears, or polished nails, or a shaved body. The shaped eyebrows aren't that noticeable in male mode without makeup to darken them. The only concession I have made recently to my 'feminine tells' is that when I went to see my sister (who I am not out with yet) and her family for the holidays, I downplayed the shaping and polish color for my nails, and wore male-appropriate earrings. No one appeared to notice, or if they did, they didn't care. When I am being male, I don't wear makeup, so how I look when I've had a makeover is a non-issue.

[Stephanie47]

I've come back to this thread several times, beat on the key board, deleted and went off to do other things. Maybe you're asking too many questions that to me seem really far flung.

My desire to wear women's clothing on occasion has absolutely nothing to do with my sexuality. My sexuality is between my wife and myself. Her sexuality is between her and me. Decades ago there was some intimate times between my wife and I which involved wearing negligees and stockings. At the time she and I recognized that bedroom play as a little kinky play time. There was no pretense I was a woman or acted like a woman. Years later when my interests in women's clothing evolved and she discovered the vivid red Vanity Fair bra, the typical discussion ensured. That ended the bedroom play. She absolutely refused to be involved in anything resolving around simulated lesbian sex.

I have learned many many years ago that ascribing human activities as masculine or feminine belongs in the history books. The last vestiges of a male domain may have fallen with allowing women into the combat arms. In my latest stint in a hospital my nurses and LPN's were male. Some of my doctors are female. I wiped my kids butts along with my wife. Ah, she got me though. I cannot breast feed babies!

You're going to have to get some response from the wives of cross dressers whether they consider sex with their husbands as lesbian sex.

[Billy]

Some Beautiful women that choose to crossdress into men's attire remain very feminine and are accepted as beautiful women in men's clothing. They do not don artificial beards, change their physique, or call themselves Dave.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/156711262008714419/

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/247557310741454904/

Obviously they also wear jean's, sweats, boots and everything else and remain very feminine.

[Tracii G]

You are missing the point Billy. Gender expression and sexual preference are two different things.
Just because a straight man like to CD does not mean his sexuality changes or that he CD's to attract a man or woman.
The sex aspect has nothing to do with it.
The comment about women wearing mens clothes has been talked about many times (insert dead horse here) and its a non argument.
You tend to come off sounding like a homophobe.

[Billy]

I am glad you posted this Traci.

I think I am beginning to understand. The beautiful ladies in the male clothing were simply crossdressing and were not exhibiting any form or Gender expression or sexual preference. Obviously a person that is trying to pass as female is not just a crossdresser, they are exhibiting gender expression. So there are actually at least three parts to this equation. One crossdressing, second gender expression, and third sexual preference.

[Sashauk]

Gender expression and sexual preference are two different things.

I completely agree.

I have always considered myself to be straight and as far as I can recall I have never felt the desire to go with a man. I have on a few occasions been to a club in London that one night a month has an evening for masculine men to wear lingerie. It is fairly obvious to me that quite a number of them are gay, and indeed in a secluded area a few of them play, but it has no attraction for me.

Not all gays want to wear women's clothes and putting on women's clothes does not make me gay - I am still the same person inside despite my outward appearance.

[Billy]

Very true Sashauk.
I know several gay men. One coworker presented himself with a feminine personality, very soft spoken, and has some facial hair. He was also pretty buff in the upper body. His biceps were very toned and he presented them as such. I don't think he had any desire to crossdress.

[Tracii G]

Billy those clothes are made for and sold to women they are not technically mens clothes so they are not CDing.
You can't seem to get your mind around that concept.
Sashauk you assume those guys were gay but you don't really know do you?
Tip 1: please don't assume.
I'm gay but none of my gay friends crossdress and they think I'm the odd one for being TG.They don't understand just like straight people.
So like I said don't assume because when you do you are usually wrong.

[Billy]

So if I sew my own skirt, jacket, and blouse specifically made for me, I won't be crossdressing?

Am I accurate to say that crossdressing is wearing clothing made for the opposite gender?
That some crossdresser but not all crossdressers also choose to partake in gender role crossing?

[Sashauk]

Tracii,

No disrespect but I did not 'assume' they were gay, I knew they were gay or Bi from what was said and what was happening in the dark recess at the rear of the club.

I was not trying to come over as anti-gay just trying to point out that the fact I like to wear lingerie in a situation where the majority of the others are gay does not make me want to be gay myself.

[Tracii G]

OK Sashauk no problem.
Billy if you make it it will be yours so technically no.
Yes CDing involves wearing clothes of the opposite gender.
Last question you asked my answer is yes.
But womens clothes that are styled and appear to be mens are not made to fit a man they are made to fit a woman.

[Billy]

What is the proper terminology for gender role crossing.
Am I correct to say that a male that only wants to crossdress without emulating a female is simply a crossdresser and a person that creates a female persona or expresses their female persona is something different?
Is this process role playing? Please take no offense at a term. If I knew or understood, I would use a different vocab and would not be asking.
I am sincerely trying to understand. This is the purpose of this thread or the main question of the thread.

[Lorileah]

I think I am beginning to understand. The beautiful ladies in the male clothing were simply crossdressing and were not exhibiting any form or Gender expression or sexual preference. No you don't understand Billy. Those women are wearing clothing designed FOR women. They aren't wearing clothing from the men's section in order to present as MEN.



And if you sew a skirt that is CUT to a man's body and you wear it as a part of being a man (i.e. a kilt or sarong) you won't be cross dressing

[Teresa]

Billy,
You do need to read up on the labels.
Let's get the basic fact right that transvestite and crossdresser are the same thing, in the literal translation there is no sexual content, the definition is to wear clothes of the opposite gender. It doesn't matter who made the clothes, normally a woman will wear a blouse and skirt as most society expect as normal.

You can't call any of us just a crossdresser , we do it for different reasons, much of it depending where we are on the gender spectrum, and if we're TG or TS. To some the dressing associates with a sexual turn on to others it relieves stress. A TS will have a need to align mind with body so transition is the road they may take .

My dressing isn't an act , or role playing it's a deep need I have to satisfy. I've come to terms with members who call it a hobby as an enjoyable pastime they may share with their partner .

[Billy]

Teresa,
Thanks, I will read up on it. I guess I am somewhat brain dead. I don't see a sticky or it is not overtly evident. Please provide a link if you don't mind.
Thanks

[sometimes_miss]

Logically there are complications with adopting a femme voice, appearance, and personality while maintaining a strictly heterosexual stance.
Why? How about if you adopt a feminine voice, appearance, and personality, but never go out? There would be no one to even attempt to attract.

I think if I can understand it and we can discuss this logically it would go a long ways toward SO acceptance issues.
SO acceptance requires that the SO and the crossdresser both acknowledge what's happening as well as accept the situation. Very often, the crossdresser has no idea why he wants to dress up/behave as a woman. So how can his SO know what will happen to her relationship in the future and plan for it, if she doesn't know who and what she's with?

Transforming into a passable female would seem to conflict with everything masculine.
It really depends upon why the person crossdresses. Until you can define that, there's no way to know how it relates to being heterosexual, bisexual, homosexual, or have repressed homosexual feelings.

Would a significant other of a fully dressed CD'r feel they were somehow involved in a lesbian relationship?
Some would, others, knowing that the CD is male, will not. Many women find certain masculine behaviors repulsive, so if the ones she likes are still present, and she can come to terms with the feminine qualities of her male mate, that would seem to be a good thing. Unfortunately, again, most women don't know why they're attracted to their mates (nor do men). Most people just chalk it up to 'chemistry', in part, because they really don't want to know. Think of all the women who repeatedly date men who treat them badly. Do you think they really want to know why? Probably not. Few want to know the inner workings of the mind.

Does acting female attract male attention?
Depends. Some of us are simply so unattractive while dressed up as women that no one finds us attractive. However, it is my belief that how we, and how women dress, is designed to attract males. Many women, however, deny this; Still, I counter that just because they aren't dressing up to attract men, if they are indeed wearing such things that make them attractive to men, then they are achieving the very goal that they are denying. So it can be taken several ways. You pick.

No judgement from me here. I am just trying to understand how heterosexual all or nothing crossdressers justify their femme side to themselves or others.
For me at least, the desire to self identify as female is a result of childhood abuse. There's always an underlying feeling that I'm supposed to dress and behave as a girl, because that's what I thought I was going to be for a very long time. Even though I found out that it wasn't true, that apparently doesn't change how I feel. It's a well hidden fact of the mental health profession that even if you go through therapy and figure out why you're having all the problems and feelings, it doesn't stop them from existing; all you can do is be better able to deal with the problems you have. Still, much of the population doesn't know this, so nothing you can tell them will satisfactorily justify crossdressing and emulating a female.

Read my bio in the sig below for more information. It's about a 10 minute read in several parts.

[Teresa]

Billy,
I know there is a list of definitions, but I have to admit I can't find it at the moment, I suggest you conatct one of the mods to point you in the right direction . I thought it was one of the stickies at the top of this page .

There is a definition list sticky in the TS section.

[Samantha2015]

Billy I think a crossdresser can emulate a female if they like (not all do) and enjoy the time they spend in female clothes.
A Transgender TG person has deeper feelings of wanting to be female all or most of the time and may live their lives 100% as female.
A true TG person may feel more inclined to transition fully via surgery & hormones and a CD would probably not go that far.
The confusion is maybe that we all fall under the Transgender category both CD's and TG's.
I'm by no means an expert with all the different terminology but that how I see it.


never mind there were like 5 replies before I could finish typing mine. Damn you girls are fast !! LOL

[Billy]

Okay
What would the terminology for a male that believes he is a male, wants to wear female clothing, but still identify and act as a male?

[NicoleScott]

Billy, I'm not trying to change the words in your question, but as a part-time occasional for pleasure crossdresser without gender identity issues, I read your question as "how do I reconcile my desire to transform into the image of a woman to my masculinity?"
Not a problem, because my crossdressing is very compartmentalized. I'm a normal guy who likes being a guy and all that it means. Make a movie of that part of my life and it would put people to sleep. When I open the transformation box, things get very exciting for a few hours until the dressup session ends and everything gets cleaned up and put away back into the box ready for next time.

[Louise DK]

A crossdresser.

[Billy]

Billy, I'm not trying to change the words in your question, but as a part-time occasional for pleasure crossdresser without gender identity issues, I read your question as "how do I reconcile my desire to transform into the image of a woman to my masculinity?"
Not a problem, because my crossdressing is very compartmentalized. I'm a normal guy who likes being a guy and all that it means. Make a movie of that part of my life and it would put people to sleep. When I open the transformation box, things get very exciting for a few hours until the dressup session ends and everything gets cleaned up and put away back into the box ready for next time.

No. That would not be my question. Obviously this is a confusing issue for me and maybe for others. I guess I do not understand all the different distinctions. In my simple mind a person that don's a pair of panties is pretty low on the spectrum. That seems pretty insignificant. A person that wears female clothing regularly seems to be a little higher up the spectrum. Having a persona that has a different name and is femme is even farther up the spectrum. I have been out in public in a skirt, blouse, pumps, hose, panties. No wig or makeup. I didn't feel or assume to be a woman and did not try to emulate one or had no desire to.

[Tracii G]

Billy you need to open your mind a little.
You presume a lot and seem to be regurgitating what society has driven into your brain over the years.
There is no race to get to the highest point or a competition of any kind.
Nothing is black and white when it comes to trangenderism. Just because you "think" something is a certain way doesn't make it the way it is.
You Billy I would say are a crossdresser thats it.

[ClosetED]

Billy - I understand what you are trying to understand, but your terms show your confusion. You asked for a reference - try. http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2012/01/the-genderbread-person/#sthash.Tgi7LHd8.dpbs
The Genderbread Person is an infographic that breaks down gender identity, gender expression, biological sex, and sexual orientation into an easy to understand visual.

I view myself as, using a metaphor, a coin. I have a head's and a tail's side. I can present either and still be me, the coin. The one side focuses on masculine presentation, and the other the feminine aspects of what society I live in expects. Some chose to mix those. You are correct that dressing as feminine as I can, this is very confusing to a wife who is steeped in society's norms - they do not see me as a coin, but as a 'tail', not the 'head' they married. I can imagine a GG may feel that their gender preference is being forced to lesbianism if they view a person only based on presentation. Wonderful GGs who have come here can see past that and just see the 'coin" they fell in love with being very happy and they support that.
So I let my masculinity and femininity take turns and my mind is OK with that. My gender identity does not change, nor does my gender preference (sexual orientation) change, but my gender expression does change. If I wore a kilt with knee high socks or short woman's skirt with Tartan colors and woman's tights, where does gender expression cross the line from masculine to feminine? Hope this helps ...
Hugs, Ellen

[Meghan4now]

Billy,
I have to agree with Tracii here. Based on the numerous post that I have seen from you, in this thread and others, you seem to really be wrestling with questions of identity, orientation and the eventual reactions to those areas. I have seen a lot of implication between the two in your writting.

And this is not unusual for someone trying to clarify in their own mind who and what they are, with a great deal of defining ones self in relationship to the standards they see around them. Regardless of whether you accept or reject these standards, they are standards in your mind. And that's to be expected. You have to use the map that you have till you get a better map. Or at least a bigger map?

I may not be reading between the lines correctly, but it would seem like something has shifted in your life recently, and now you are trying to figure out how it all fits together. Understandable.

There will come a time where you will need to stop trying to define it all, and just find a space where you can be at peace. We are all on that road too, and those spaces are usually just a roadside rest.

P.S. There are a LOT of gay guys that are very masculine, and like masculine guys. Heck even a lot of Fem Gay guys like to rock a muscular body, and go for that look. And just because a CD wants to look atractive, doesn't mean they want to affect a little girl look, or speak in a lisp. I see my own dressing a bit as a challenge to look my best, not to pickup young studs.

[Alice B]

In having a makeover I am presenting my female side. My male side has no voice in the matter

[Tracii G]

Billy its not an easy thing to understand because there are so many facets to CDing and some points intersect with TG ism.
One for example is gender expression.
There is no right or wrong way to CD you do it your way and others do it their way. One is no better than the other.

[Teresa]

Billy,
Going back to #51, you need to look at why you dress and what motivates it, if it's sexual then admit it is otherwise what do you think triggered the need in the first instance .

Once you've done that then you can start coming up with your own answers , at the moment forget the labels just discover what drives you. Also ask the question if you're clinging onto your macho side to deny more female feelings, you appear to be trying to prove the point that your are just a man in a dress , but denying there's something more. any confessions don't really matter to us, most have been on this road . What the forum is really about is finding help and we can't help you until you come to terms with what you real needs are.

[Tracii G]

Teresa is right you need to be open to yourself first and figure out what drives your desire to wear womens clothes.