Men In Rubber Masks

[~Joanne~]

Netflix's has the documentary "Men in rubber masks" this month and I watched it. It starred what they labelled as "living dolls" and our own Doc sherry was at the fore front of it. I know Doc has stated in the past that the only one that knew about her dressing and everything that pertains to it was her daughter but I guess that is pretty much out the window now. Doc if you could elaborate on this a bit i would really like to know what made you change our mind about keeping it secret to going full out public with it.

The documentary left me quite baffled to be honest. I never gave much thought to how much DOC goes through to appear feminine or the company that actually makes the product (which is also covered in the documentary) which I think does a really good job on the suit but fails miserably when it comes to the actual mask. Doc most certainly had the best mask of all those featured in it.

It hurts me to say this, and I am not bashing the lifestyle, Doc, or anyone else for their choices in life but the other masks were border line scary. I just couldn't understand why they thought the masks looked good. Doc's looked good, the rest not so much. The company that makes them, femskin, has a very long way to go in this department I think.

We know that whenever a CD is portrayed on TV that it's usually a joke or not in a negative light and honestly, like caitlyn jenner (who by the way has completely disappeared after making a few more millions) does this really help who we are? does this help people understand what Cding is about, does this bring us closer to be accepted and being able to be out and about without being attacked or are we taking a few more steps backwards rather than forwards again?

Please keep this civil. I tried my best to write this as civil as possible to express my feelings but sometimes I use the wrong words or the words come across the screen in a different light than meant. I'd like to have a healthy discussion on this documentary without it being closed or anyone's feelings getting hurt. Like I stated, we all walk a different path, this means different things to different folks and some will say that we can just walk out there now (as they always do) without being attacked but everyone knows that different people react differently and it's easier said than done.

Thoughts? Opinions?

[Sandra]

Admin notice..Thread re-opened

Keep it civil please, we are not here to have a go at how anyone presents themselves

Anyone having a go will be moderated.

[Laurana]

Watched it.

I thought the masks were horrible. If I were into that I'd go with prosthetic pieces leaving the eyes,ears and mouth alone to allow for at least some movement.

But *shrug* Not my life not my problem.

[Julia Welch]

I speak as I find but try to soften my opinions to minimize any pain they cause. Here's a fact: with very few exceptions most men don't look good in dresses. Usually down to the different shape of our torso, larger arms, broader shoulders and a masculine jaw-line. However, from the waist down we can mostly pull the look off, which is evident from many of the pictures we can see here.

What Doc does with his Fem-Skin is pretty amazing, although its not to everyones taste. It reshapes our torso and gives a feminine shape. I've always found his posts to be interesting at the very least. I hope this thread isn't seen as insulting by him. I have faith it wasn't started to be.

[AllieSF]

"We know that whenever a CD is portrayed on TV that it's usually a joke or not in a negative light and honestly, like caitlyn jenner (who by the way has completely disappeared after making a few more millions) does this really help who we are? does this help people understand what Cding is about, does this bring us closer to be accepted and being able to be out and about without being attacked or are we taking a few more steps backwards rather than forwards again? "

I would like to address this part of your questions. There are a surprising number of members here who will give their approval/respect the rights of others to dress as they want. Then in the next breath say/insinuate that they should not present certain looks in public, i.e. stay home! One of those is a man in a dress, especially if they are bald or have facial hair. I remember when when I first encountered posts and pictures of Doc Sherry here. I was never weirded out, but knew that it was not a look nor presentation mode for me. I also remember all the negative comments then. Eventually over time all of us regulars were and are ready to come to Sherry's defense when some newbie goes too negative about her, and Sherry can more than defend herself. And, Yes, Sherry has come a long way Baby!

So, Sherry and other mask wearers, men in dresses with or without facial hair, wigs or bald, are, willingly or not, representatives of our larger and very diverse community and can be seen and even interacted with out in the general public. The same goes for Caitlyn Jenner, the roles in Orange is the New Black, Transparent, and many comedy skits over time. The thing that all of us should realize is that they are just a part of the whole and are not necessarily typical of any of the larger part of this community. There also are all of us who go out regularly, almost passing/blending in or not that interact regularly with the general public and are also representatives. Is any one of us "The Best" representative? I think not, because if all we show are the pretty blonds, what about all the redheads, brunettes and dark haired people out there? If all they see is the better passing trans person (umbrella term including all of us), what about the rest who may never be able to reach that level of look/presentation? Should the public think that we don't exist and therefore should stay at home?

My belief, and it is a very strong one, is that if we want acceptance and rights, we "have" to grant the same to all our members here even if how they present or act is not to our liking. So, in answer to one of your questions, yes, everyone who goes out can and do help to bring about better real world tolerance and acceptance, even the ones who do not fit our idea of what should be. May someone get a bad feeling about what they see and then form a more general negative opinion of the whole? Yes, that can easily happen. However, once they see more and actually interact with some, they will soon learn that we are just as varied as the general public in all their many ways of being themselves out in public.

As most of us have learned to put up with those halfway down the ass style of wearing pants that some of our younger generations like, the rest of the public will eventually learn to put up with, tolerate and maybe even accept mask wearers, men in dress with facial hair. They are only going to learn by seeing and interacting with all of us. They will also learn that some of the extreme presentations are the exception rather than the norm. Why present one segment of who we are when we are actually so much more diverse? I feel that just having all of us out there, the more the merrier, are in the big picture positive steps forward.

[Julie MA]

After researching the suit and mask topic, to me it isn't much different than all the makeup and padding and tape and shapewear some of us use.

[sweetdreams]

Certainly food for thought for me.

My initial reaction is er, um, well....

Definitely not for me. I like to emulate the way GGs do it.

There's a lot of rubber involved and that doesn't do it for me.

A big question for me is "if I saw someone walking down a mall dressed like this what would my reaction be?" Probably not a lot different from what we experience. Where does that leave me?

I think I would be accepting (to each their own) but certainly I would take a double and maybe a triple take to try and understand it.

[Abbey11]

I admire Sherry and have to say rather envious of all the wonderful times she seems to have and is kind enough to share with us here within our community, I appreciate diversity and that we are all unique, I like to think that I am quite an accepting person and as Allie has said, the more we interact with the general public, whatever our form of expression might be and we try to make that interaction a positive experience the better for the whole.

[Lana Mae]

A normal reaction to something out of the norm is to look again and maybe again. This is not necessarily a negative reaction. It is just making sure you really saw what you saw. There is a lady who works at the local drug store, whose hair was 1/2 black and 1/2 very white and had multiple piercings! Yes, I did look and look again! I however felt like right on baby and more power to you! Rather than anything negative! I love DOC for being DOC as it is not a style I wish to embrace but is part of our diversity and more power to Miss Sherry with all due respect!!!! Hugs Lana Mae

[Robin777]

I seen the show when it was on TLC. I think Doc looks good as Sherry. To me it is much different than heavy makeup and lots of padding as some do. He found his way to express himself and if it isn't your cup of tea, don't do it.

[HollyGreene]

I heard about full head latex masks some time ago and did a bit of Googling for them. I have to say that most of the ones I saw looked really creepy, or had been painted with "make up" that was clearly done by somebody who knows nothing about makeup.
I saw a TV documentary about "living dolls" (might be the same one), and the masks definitely looked as creepy as the ones I had seen online. I'll stick to practising my make up.

I guess those people enjoy it though, so all I can say is each to their own.

[mykell]

[p]

I would like to address this part of your questions. There are a surprising number of members here who will give their approval/respect the rights of others to dress as they want. Then in the next breath say/insinuate that they should not present certain looks in public, i.e. stay home! One of those is a man in a dress, especially if they are bald or have facial hair. I remember when when I first encountered posts and pictures of Doc Sherry here. I was never weirded out, but knew that it was not a look nor presentation mode for me. I also remember all the negative comments then. Eventually over time all of us regulars were and are ready to come to Sherry's defense when some newbie goes too negative about her, and Sherry can more than defend herself. And, Yes, Sherry has come a long way Baby!

So, Sherry and other mask wearers, men in dresses with or without facial hair, wigs or bald, are, willingly or not, representatives of our larger and very diverse community and can be seen and even interacted with out in the general public. The same goes for Caitlyn Jenner, the roles in Orange is the New Black, Transparent, and many comedy skits over time. The thing that all of us should realize is that they are just a part of the whole and are not necessarily typical of any of the larger part of this community. There also are all of us who go out regularly, almost passing/blending in or not that interact regularly with the general public and are also representatives. Is any one of us "The Best" representative? I think not, because if all we show are the pretty blonds, what about all the redheads, brunettes and dark haired people out there? If all they see is the better passing trans person (umbrella term including all of us), what about the rest who may never be able to reach that level of look/presentation? Should the public think that we don't exist and therefore should stay at home?

My belief, and it is a very strong one, is that if we want acceptance and rights, we "have" to grant the same to all our members here even if how they present or act is not to our liking. So, in answer to one of your questions, yes, everyone who goes out can and do help to bring about better real world tolerance and acceptance, even the ones who do not fit our idea of what should be. May someone get a bad feeling about what they see and then form a more general negative opinion of the whole? Yes, that can easily happen. However, once they see more and actually interact with some, they will soon learn that we are just as varied as the general public in all their many ways of being themselves out in public.

As most of us have learned to put up with those halfway down the ass style of wearing pants that some of our younger generations like, the rest of the public will eventually learn to put up with, tolerate and maybe even accept mask wearers, men in dress with facial hair. They are only going to learn by seeing and interacting with all of us. They will also learn that some of the extreme presentations are the exception rather than the norm. Why present one segment of who we are when we are actually so much more diverse? I feel that just having all of us out there, the more the merrier, are in the big picture positive steps forward.

while i did not see the documentary i can not comment on it :yt: i did not understand doc when i first arrived here and there was another who wore a mask i have not seen for some time who wore the most wonderful dresses her name escapes me though.....i always just assumed doc and her were famous and thats how they could participate, then one day i just figured it out, he was honest and having fun, he did however share one time real pictures and i though she was so pretty but was very hard on herself.

so what bothers me is that folks here who dont agree with how some present seem to have a need to want to push them to the edge of the "trans school of folks" for the sharks to have at them, easy pickens.

so im going through things in real time with bigotry :eek: and i notice that it is in pockets here as well, insert rush song trees here (https://play.google.com/music/preview/T7beb2pmsb6rpm24u73uaoj2xre?lyrics=1&utm_source=google&utm_medium=search&utm_campaign=lyrics&pcampaignid=kp-songlyrics)

in another thread there is talk of "phobias" so i think this may be relevant to that. or birds of a feather, guilt by association, whatever it is its ugly.
beauty comes from the inside out, a beautiful person can be an ugly human being, and what some consider homely or ugly can be a beautiful human being.

one can only decide for themselves which one they want to be :D i know what i will pick.

[Dana44]

I watched the documentary. Sherry looked great and they showed more of her than anyone else. Interesting and I hope doc checks in.

[Gabriella111]

So, my GG perspective... this seems "other level", similar to drag queens. It's not just being femme, it's extreme. And no judgment or negative connotations intended there; just seems a level beyond simply crossdressing.

This is informative for me, though. I saw Doc's Cinderella pics a day or so ago and then the raincoat photos today and I was confused. I figured out that he was wearing a mask, but I was lost on how the legs and arms looked so youthful. This all makes sense now. I wasn't sure how to ask without sounding like a rube. >_>

[HollyGreene]

Just seen some pics of Doc and I have to say that the mask looks totally different to the "chamber of horrors" masks I saw online. It actually looks fairly convincing from a distance, but I see why they call it "Living dolls" because there is a mannequin-like quality to it.
I think I get where they are coming from, and I don't think it's necessarily about passing in public.

[XemmaX]

i thought it was interesting, i dont think it's like cding really. it's similar but it's not the same. they are going for a completely different aesthetic and that is to look literally like a doll. but i also think they are part of the tree too.

[Lisa85]

Started it but quit after a few minutes. It was not at all good. The family reaction was worst than an outrageous gaudy drag queen. If we would have continued watching, it would have been the end of CD for at least a month. So, just be careful about what you watch and who/when you share it. Kinky Boots was fun and totally accepted as it's "normal" CD stuff. Afraid this was not thoughts or opinions, but it was a strong reaction to the showing.

[emma-louise]

sorry but they freak me out, saw a programe here in the uk about them thought they were scary

[donnalee]

As I am wont to, but haven't for some time, reiterate that famous Benjamin Franklin quote when the revolutionists first decided to go ahead with it. - "If we do not hang together, then we shall certainly hang separately."

Enough of this divisiveness!:sad:

[~Joanne~]

I hope this thread isn't seen as insulting by him. I have faith it wasn't started to be.

It was not created to insult anyone, for any reason. As I stated, we all walk different paths, we all view cross dressing as a different thing or lifestyle, and whether you pass, don't pass, don't fully dress or have a beard or whatnot, there is no wrong way to do this, explain what this is to each of us, or the never answered why do we do this.

I am hoping that this thread will shine a bit more light onto the subject itself, which is now more open and out there since Netflix is airing the documentary and to be honest, I don't think much is known about the subject. Doc is a great person, who takes his skin seriously and knows more about this than anyone here, save maybe kathy leigh. Curiosity tells me she is the one that has the answers to questions left behind by a documentary that may have "fudged" a lot of what it was talking about and really didn't go into a lot of depth, it just grazed the surface and i didn't think it gave a fair look into the whole thing.


[B]what about the rest who may never be able to reach that level of look/presentation? Should the public think that we don't exist and therefore should stay at home?

Not by any means, but a person's safety is always as important as one's right to express themselves as they see fit. Let's be honest here, caitlyn didn't do anything to really "ease" peoples feelings towards those who are transgendered or different in any way. She most certainly pushed us back a few steps. Most people out there saw what she did as a money making ploy, a push for her own spotlight away from the family she married into. She has disappeared for months now, whether she just needed a break or not, we will never know but the impression she left remains.

[docrobbysherry]

Joanne, I don't mind your post at all. I'm an open book. However, most folks here would prefer NOT to read or understand. Let me deal with your misconceptions first:

Almost all my masks r homemade and they r plastic, not rubber. Femskin does NOT sell masks. Altho they've been trying to produce a good one for many years. Like u, I was just as freaked out by those weird, bizarre, over the top fetish masks! But, no more than I was freaked out by all the photos of men in dresses when I first visited cd.com 8+ years ago!:eek:

I'm NOT brave. The docu. producers assured me I could not be recognized from their video. They lied. But, I understand why now. They had to show me to make viewers believe that I am an old man! Much older than the other rubber fetish dressers. I may look and act younger than them, too.
Up until now, the docu. has only been shown in the UK, Australia, and a year ago on TLC in the USA. Under the name,"Secrets of the Living Dolls". Little chance of folks that know me seeing it. Hopefully that will be so on Netflix, too?
I still am not sure why the docu. focused on me. As I explained to them, I don't own, wear, or like rubber. In fact, the Rubberdoll World Rendezvous event operators made an exception in their rules to allow me to attend that first one where they shot the UK Channel 4 docu. And, only because one had seen and liked my FB pics. They have since changed their rules dramatically. To allow folks the option of not wearing masks and nearly anyone who wishes to dress "Non mainstream", to attend! :)

Julia W. and Julia P.:
Femskin does NOT change your figure in any way. Except that u appear to have a naked woman's body with real breasts. The figure I have in the suit is created by the same girdles and pads I wear under my women's clothes without the suit!
And, both Caitlyn and I have one thing in common. Neither of us have ever claimed to "represent the community". In her case, trans. In my case, neither trans or fetish dressers. When folks accuse me of that it seems to me to be "PC speak" for, "I don't like u, how u look, or what u say". The vanilla public doesn't seem to care in any case.:straightface:

Sweetdreams:
There is one big difference between those bizarre, rubber, fetish dressers and u and other trans. They r trying very hard to present as someone NOT themselves. (The one thing I have in common with them). While most dressers here r interested in presenting as a female version of themselves. In reality, they r more accepted and openly admired when they walk out in public than many trans "dressed to blend" r. Because they r not pretending to hide or fool u into believing them to be someone they r not. Unlike a regular trans who maybe be viewed with suspicion when made by some vanillas!:daydreaming:

Mikell and XemmaX:
Very perceptive post, Mikell. Most of u r NOT going to like what I say next. I have found that most of the rubber fetish folks I've met r trans. And, I believe they have more in common with trans here than they do with me! Like most of u, they r all regular, interesting, and open minded people. Not weird, perverted, or sex absorbed as I feared. They simple prefer to present in exaggerated outfits, masks, and seem to find the look, feel, and smell of rubber exciting. Most of us do not.

Going further on the "sex" issue. When I first discovered cd.com 8 years ago, I assumed everyone got turned on by dressing and posted about it. After being badly slapped around by others a few times I realized it was kind of a taboo subject. I congratulate readers here now on acknowledging how common and normal it is. After 3 visits to the RWR fetish event? I have yet to hear anyone mention anything sexual. Seems like it's a taboo subject for them? I must ask about that this year.:devil:

Gabriella:
My Femskin suit is very confining. In particular, the legs r a bit difficult to walk in. So, you'll rarely , if ever, see me wearing the suit in any photos that don't show my full, naked body. Like swim suit photos do.:daydreaming:
In all my pics wearing clothes, I'm wearing just a breast plate over my shoulders or breast forms like everyone else. Those arms and legs u see r MINE! The padded and girdled figure u see is not.:o

Lisa:
Kinky Boots was a Hollywood type movie based on a real event. The UK docu. I was in was completely unstaged and unrehearsed. It's like comparing a street performer to the movie La La Land!

Emma C.: Same video, different title apparently.:thumbsup:

Wrap u: My fetish for dressing is seeing a pretty woman, not myself, in my mirror when I'm done. U can throw all the stones u want at me for that. However, judging by the number of pantie, nitie, and pantiehose threads I've read here? I'm FAR from being the only fetish person on this site!:heehee:

I'm kinda unique among dressers because I wear a mask. I've only known 2 others that did that here. I wear masks only to look like a real female in my mirror. I have no interest in seeing myself, a man in a dress. Sorry if that bothers anyone. But, isn't that really YOUR problem not mine? :battingeyelashes:

[reinasblack]

Look up Living Dolls on YouTube and google .
There are some great masks and people who are artist doing this.

[Rachelakld]

As humans, we have intensive non-verbal communication, especially from facial expressions - if we can't see those facial expresssions, then we can't guage if the person in the mask is friend or foe - "scary movie" played on our paranoia, where a friend would wear a mask as a scary joke, then a foe wore the same mask which has become a standard halloween costume now.
Other people who often hide their faces (for identification reasons) include robbers and others who are out to do no good, which re-enforces our dislike for masks.

Because Doc has built up a lovely caring relationship with us here and in her docos, She is the only person I would trust in a mask, and even then I would still require verification it was her in the mask.

[Jackie7]

Love you Doc in all your unique beauty.

[~Joanne~]

Thank You Doc for weighing in on this subject. Nobody is throwing stones at You for any reason and if they are they should be ashamed of themselves. Like I have stated twice already, we all do this for different reasons, some fetish, some more serious, some because they know they are going to transition and the list really does just go on from here to where ever. No one person here is better than the next. We are ALL in this together in a world that doesn't fully understand us and gets their information about us from sources that misrepresent us at every turn.

"Almost all my masks r homemade and they r plastic, not rubber. Femskin does NOT sell masks. Altho they've been trying to produce a good one for many years. Like u, I was just as freaked out by those weird, bizarre, over the top fetish masks!"

That would explain why yours was the best of the bunch. The documentary left me with the impression that they did make masks also so it's nice to know that they don't but even if they did and the masks (other than yours) that were shown were their product, they didn't have a lot to be proud of.

"I'm NOT brave. The docu. producers assured me I could not be recognized from their video. They lied. But, I understand why now. They had to show me to make viewers believe that I am an old man! Much older than the other rubber fetish dressers. I may look and act younger than them, too."

This is what really perplexed me while watching the documentary. I know from your posts over the years that only your daughter knew about this and even then she never really saw you dressed and that you didn't want the whole world to know, especially family yet there You were full blown exposed. The crew of this film wanting to show an "old man" in a rubber suit doesn't give them the excuse or the right to do as they please and lie to you. Has this effected you at all? How many people that you REALLY know have seen this?

"Up until now, the docu. has only been shown in the UK, Australia, and a year ago on TLC in the USA. Under the name,"Secrets of the Living Dolls". Little chance of folks that know me seeing it. Hopefully that will be so on Netflix, too?"

Netflix is a much bigger than TLC, that doesn't mean a whole lot of people will watch it but it's a lot more "out there" on netflix than a single cable channel. I think the majority of people that will watch it are the CD/TG crowd, us here, and I am sorry if I brought it to everyone's attention where you may have wanted it to just run it's coarse and disappear. I was under the impression (again as given by the producers of the documentary,) that you decided to become a lot more open on the subject and didn't care who knew or didn't know.

You are a valuable part of this community Doc, You represent one of the many facets as to what we do , who we are, and what we are about. I have always enjoyed your posts, your pictures, and your input into everything that is CD. I hope it will continue well into the future and that this documentary doesn't do you more harm than good.

Thanks for your input and have a great week :D

[docrobbysherry]

I AM a lot more open now, Joanne. The showing of the documentary in the UK was the beginning. The producers of it warned me I would receive lots of posts on Sherry's FaceBook page. They put my name, Robert Sherry, in the video credits. And, warned me about possible negative comments.:Angry3:

Instead, I received over 300 comments and Friend requests from the UK rite after it aired! Remarkably, not one was negative. Interestingly, few were from CD's or "maskers"! Almost all were from vanilla folks either curious about why I do this and/or complimentary about my "bravery"!:o

That positive energy pushed me to continue to test the envelope for masked crossdressers. And, that's what I've been doing. Accepting opportunities to appear when I felt the media would either present me fairly or in a completely neutral lite.

I only received a handful of posts after it was shown in Australia and the USA. I believe being shown on a major channel in the UK made a dramatic difference!

[~Joanne~]

That's why I love the UK and it's people, they aren't stifled by the same things that we are here in America. I have always notice they are more laid back and easier going and honestly I believe that are more accepting than we are when it comes to things people don't consider "normal". They are afraid to try new things that catch their fancy and really don't care what other people think. We have a long road to travel in this country to catch up :(

[daenna]

As one who has been "out on the town" with Sherry, I can say that she looks fab in person!

[Jenny22]

Sherry, the real person, IS a 'doll' in every positive sense of the word. If you've ever met her, I know you'll agree. She's such a lovely lady in real life. I'm so very happy to call her my friend.

[Wen4cd]

I know a lot of maskers, and spent many years making masks. (Not rubber or plastic, my style was for rigid fiberglass doll masks modeled after Japanese Anime characters, used by 'doll-ers'.) They were all very much passionate performers, and nearly obsessive artists when it came to their presentation. but there was also a tendency to hyperfocus on one aspect of presentation and ignore the rest, particularly in newbies. This usually resolved itself with experience and age, until you reach a pinnacle like Sherry . :)

I have to say I am out of the mask scene now, for years and years, and it was not because still don't find masking beautiful, but it had obvious drawbacks that were limiting my personal enjoyment of dressing.

I really, really enjoy the transformative process of applying makeup. And I like seeing my own emotional expressions looking back at me out of a mirror.

But If I am simply trying out a bit of costume I made to see how it fits, I certainly still throw on a mask out of sheer convenience.

Not only are masks convenient, they have other properties Sherry touched on as well. They are an 'armour' between your own identity and the one you are presenting. You will have less identity dissonance in a mask. You will portray your notion of femme in a certain way, and it will less affect the rest of you when you are done.