Does anyone else have a mirror that lies? Or (maybe the camera is lying?)

[CostaRicaRachel]

Does anyone else ever go thru this.

I have a full length mirror in my bedroom.

I pick out a skirt and top, look at myself in the mirror, and think , looks good,
so I decide to take a photo.

In the photo I look completely, unattractive, fat and sloppy.

I don't which is lying, the mirror or the camera?:)

[Sashauk]

Sadly for me I'm never going to look good either in a mirror or a photograph. :)

[Julie MA]

Same with my phone selfies. Camera lens point of view can distort. Trust the mirror

[Teresa]

Rachel,
The camera is the problem, I was a pro photographer for thirty years and the selfies being taken now aren't flattering because the camera is used too close and with a wide setting on the lens. It distorts the body proportions and produces the effect you describe.

To take decent pictures full length should be taken just above waist height preferably with a long lens on the camera, a close up should be taken at eye level to give the facial features the best appearance , again with a long lens. Cameras can be made to lie when used in the right way !

[GretchenM]

Hi Rachel,

I think there is something psychological that goes on here. I experience similar things, but sometimes it is the other way around - unhappy with the view in the mirror, but look better in the photo. Perhaps it has to do with lighting or perhaps that the mirror view provides a better connection and because we want to look good our brain interferes with the objective reflection and gives us the reflection we want to see. There is often a time span involved with the photo or perhaps it is a different medium but I think our brains produce a more objective perception in photos because that is what we expect a photo to do. Truth is, as a semi-pro photographer (landscape and nature), all photos contain lies. As the advertising industry knows very well, perception defines truth more than reality does. That said, I think it is a mistake to assume that because you look bad in the photo (to your perception) that may not be the case with others. With some you will always look goofy, others won't really See you in the first place, and to others you will be a presentable woman even if not passable. Passing, I think, is an illusion to most of us. But if your avatar photo is representative, you really don't have anything to worry about. So, don't get too hard on yourself; we are our own worst critics.

xoxo
Gretchen

[Abbey11]

I've started using a selfie stick or at least the part that holds the phone, you can attach it to a tripod, this is what my recent pics have been taken with. You can then video yourself as well, saves having to run backwards and forwards pressing the shutter button. When watching a video playback you can pause the video, take a screen capture of a suitable image on the phone and post it to this forum :) I find the lighting to be the biggest challenge, not enough sometimes so things come out dark.

[Ellie Summer]

To add to Teresa's technical points, lighting has a lot to do with it. When you're looking in a mirror, you're getting soft bounce light from the room around you, but if you photograph yourself with the flash on it will be harsh and unflattering. The main light source should be something besides the onboard flash to take a nice portrait.

[ElleStreet]

I remember reading something about us not tending to like pictures of ourselves because the image of ourselves that we are used to seeing is inverted (we normally see ourself in mirrors so were used to the invert image) so that when we see a regular pic of ourselves something seems off/uncanny valley-esque.

Not sure if it's true but it's nice to think that everyone thinks we look as good as what we see in the mirror

[Lana Mae]

I defer to the photography experts in the group for this one! I do think your avatar looks good! Hugs Lana Mae

[NicoleScott]

My camera doesn't lie, but I sometimes have to poke it in the shutter a hundred times before it finally reveals the truth.

[DIANEF]

I often get ready, look in the mirror and think, yes, pretty good, then take a photo and it looks so different. Do I believe my own eyes or the camera lens?

[Tracii G]

When you look in the mirror you are seeing a reverse image keep that in mind.
A camera doesn't see you as you see you.

[LydiaL]

Nice to learn that the mirror is the fairest!

Thanks for the tips Teresa and Ellie.

Even using a tripod, I have had to take many dozens of selfies to try and get a usable pic. OK, so lose the wide angle shots. Take longer pics, then crop if desired.

[ClosetED]

Trust the photographers - Teresa and Ellie. I am not a professional but have a good camera and tripod and can use Photoshop when needed to fix small errors. I hate phone selfies and even worse when hand held vs using the timer feature and the phone set up resting somewhere. Posing is also important - look at some of the poses of pictures here or in catalogs. The poses here may be better to minimize certain features the GGs don't have to worry about. Stand at 45 degree to camera to minimize broader shoulders. Over the shoulder views give nice angle to face and hide Adam's Apple. Looking down when facing camera can also do this.
Fat-use corset or cincher to help.
Sloppy - take the time to check how your clothes and hair lay before deciding to take the picture - tough when under time constraints.
Unattractive - your avatar looks pretty - nice smile, good skin. Take off glasses to see the difference in picture. Better lighting - are you using flash? Natural light onto your front and not behind you?
Give us more specifics and the professionals can help you capture what you desire.
Hugs, Ellen

[Taylor186]

Generally, my mirror tell a favorable lie and my unzoomed camera (not a phone) mostly tells the inconvenient truth.

[Judith96a]

Rachel,
The camera is the problem, I was a pro photographer for thirty years and the selfies being taken now aren't flattering because the camera is used too close and with a wide setting on the lens. It distorts the body proportions and produces the effect you describe.

To take decent pictures full length should be taken just above waist height preferably with a long lens on the camera, a close up should be taken at eye level to give the facial features the best appearance , again with a long lens. Cameras can be made to lie when used in the right way !

I was advised, many moons ago, that with a 35mm camera the best lens to use for portraits was the best quality 135mm that you could afford. With a modern digital that probably means that your setting the standard zoom lens to the longest focal length that it has. (Thereas, does that sound about right?) Forgetting to do so and using a micro 4 thirds at 18mm puts on a few pounds! (Been there :( )

And yes, avoid cheap flash at all costs. Bounce it, diffuse it or get some daylight! (My avatar was taken using available light in a hotel room, bounced one reading light off the ceiling, another off the mirror and judiciously placed a standard lamp. Make sure the camera is set to a highish ISO setting and the right colour balance and sit still! Then select the best photo out of the 30 that you take!)

[Micki_Finn]

Yup. Phone camera makes me look like a troll 97% of the time.

[Meghan4now]

Oh, I Soooo get that. Most of my photos, I think my face looks fat. It is bit of both. Angles can help or hurt you. The mirror doesn't do a lot for seeing your profile or behind you. Plus the lighting can really be off on photos. The other thing is that a photo, does not really show you in action, which may capture just the wrong moment. But there is truth in the camera too.

Rember, you can be the prettiest girl in the room, or the ugliest, when you are alone. It's your choice.

[ClosetED]

If the professionals want to give advice - I have the Panasonic LUMIX G7 (a micro 4/3) and often use the Vario 14-140 mm lens and external flash unit. I capture RAW and JPEG to give me flexibility if needed. I normally use timer and click it and use the 10 seconds to pose, but could switch to the smartphone app to control it, see my self to check pose and focus, then activate the timer and then just need to put phone out of sight.
Thoughts?
Hugs, Ellen

[Ellie Summer]

So there are a lot of cheap tricks that can help you get around not having a lot of expensive toys. I can't remember if there's a forum rule about linking to external sites so someone call me out of this is a problem, but check this out for some neat tips: https://petapixel.com/2016/11/08/shoot-pro-portraits-everyday-places/
Bottom line is that hard direct light in general isn't very flattering, so you want to bounce and/or diffuse it. One of the simplest things you can do is sit next to a window. Unless the sun is beaming directly on you, you'll get some nice soft light coming in from outside. You can hold a sheet of white paper or poster board to bounce some light back onto your face to fill in the shadows which will help. If you want to use a flash, you can turn it backwards and have it point at a big blank wall rather than directly at you. Flash umbrellas do the work of diffusing the light so that it's softer, but that's an extra toy.
Photographers and film makers back in the day would smear Vaseline on the lens to soften the image and make the women look more heavenly. I wouldn't go smearing Vaseline on your lens but you can get a similar effect using a sandwich bag. Google sandwich bag photography and you'll see what I mean. That's getting into more advanced stuff though so your best bet to start out is just getting nice soft light

[Alice B]

We see what we want to see. Our brain has the ability to let our eyes focus on specific areas and things, vs the camera lens that sees everything. I get dressed and do my make up, look in the mirror and like what I see. Then I take a photograph and often it is quite different. That's OK. It is what it is.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Rachel:hugs:, I have often mentioned on posts that your camera and your Mirror
can be your best friend or your worst enemy,

The mirror shows a reverse image and the camera shows the actual image ...:daydreaming:...

[Stephanie47]

I've said it many times on threads on this forum. The eye sees what the mind wants it to see. I do not have the equipment or the inclination to take pictures of myself en femme, although when I was in my thirties I did. That was before digital cameras. I actually took film to be developed not knowing what the end product would be. The pictures did not turn out badly. I was in a lot better physical shape three or four decades ago. The family pictures I have of myself NOW attired as a man show all the imperfections I do not see when I look in the mirror. When I am en femme and doing my domestic chores there is a full length mirror in which I can see myself. I think I make an attractive older woman from a distance. Based on the photos of myself attired as a man, I'm sure my imperfections will be as glaring en femme.

[Cheryl T]

They both lie. It's a total conspiracy.

[Acastina]

As Traci suggested in the wardrobe thread, maybe this belongs elsewhere (the photos thread)? But anyway.

I really dislike the whole selfie style of close-up, arm's-length photography. It reeks of a self-absorbed trend with bad aesthetics.

I like a tripod and remote shutter control. The deluxe rig is a hard wire to a nearby TV or monitor for framing the shots. I've tried lots with the flash (this on a generic Olympus 3.2 mpx point-and-shoot), room lights reflected here and there, and natural light with all the shades up, with mixed results. The natural light actually seems to show more flaws. One little dodge that actually works pretty well is to place a couple of layers of cellophane or clear plastic (i.e., the various forms of "Scotch" tape) over the flash lens to diffuse it.

A decent tripod offers a variety of heights to shoot from. I like it as tall as possible to avoid that Big-Giant-Lady-Glaring-Down look, and I play with the zoom a lot to change the framing. Don't hesitate to crop the original image to minimize cluttered backgrounds and focus on the subject, and learn to use Photoshop or similar tools to tidy things up without turning it into a psychedelic concert poster. Play with contrast and color balance and saturation. The blur tools, faded back to a percentage of their initial changes, can make a big difference. You want to avoid the look of those (also trendy) extreme, high-detail close-ups that adorn so many modern magazine covers. You know, the ones where you can see every pore and follicle in gruesome black-and-white?

And oh, the joys of digital, constrained only by the storage of the card. You younger folks here simply cannot imagine rationing shots because you only had 12 or 24, and then wondering what the tech at the photo processor might think. I go back to the days before auto-exposure, and long before auto-focus. Use a big card and snap away, then discard the uglies. And smile, dammit! It's the sexiest thing you can wear.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one here who enjoys updating and changing avatars and profile pics often. Last count, I had over 80 avatars archived.

Vanity, is that you in my mirror?

[Jaymees22]

Yes I have noticed this. If I look great in a mirror the photos come out bad, if I look bad or so-so in the mirror the photos come out good. So I usually go with what looks better that particular day. Mirror mirror on the wall who is the fairest of them all, me of course!!

[valerie anne]

Spieglein, Spieglein an der Wand, wer ist die schoenste im ganzen Land?

Mirror, mirror on the wall...

[Teresa]

Judith,
Yes that's about right for an old 35mm film camera, I usually used about twice the focal length, so on 35mm format about 100-105mm lens. All my stuff was taken on Bronica SQai which was the old 120 ( 6cm x 6cm ) film size so a standard lens was 80mm and I used a 150mm for all my portraits. Compared with film cameras , digital needs far less light so try and find a room with lots of ambient light but not direct sunlight , outside again avoid direct sunlight unless you use reflectors or fill in flash , I preferred film to digital because the contrast was lower.

Closet,
The way to stand a bride was tun her partly side view and ask her to place her weight on the back leg and point the front foot towards the camera , it's surprising how slimmer they look.

Ellie,
If you want all the gear I still have it, brollies soft boxes and dozens of electronic flash units ( strobelights in the US !)

As for smearing Vaseline on lenses, no way ! I found by accident that anti-newton slide mounts ( 120 size ) mounted in card to slot into a pro lens shade gave the best soft lens effect. Candle lit shots of wedding couples looked amazing .

[Becky Blue]

My Mirror seems to be pretty honest, but I don't trust that Camera one bit, she's one lying #$........ For every picture I have of me about one in twenty make it into the keep and perhaps show folder, the rest get filed in trash.

[sometimes_miss]

My mirror has a sense of humor; the first time it saw me dressed as a girl, it cracked up.

My pictures are never exposed properly; or, you simply could say that in pictures as well as life, I don't come out.

[Leslie Mary S]

I mount a 35 -200 zoom lens on my Nikon D5300 DSLR camera and put my camera on a tripod and flip the fold-able digital display so I can see it while I'm standing in front of the camera. I use a 2 Second delay shutter release. I take a about six photos then make a major pose change. Then I will change outfit/wig/make-up and repeat. Typically I take anywhere between 50 and 150 photos in a shoot session. (I have been know to shoot 400 in one session, but normally that is with a model.)
Maybe if I am lucky, I might get 6 good photos. A photographer's worst critique is them-self.
Lately, I have been hanging a black towel (without lint) over the tub/shower curtain rod, and place my camera in the hall. This gives me a longer focal length and also ensures there are no mirrors to give me unwanted flash backs, and glares.

Unfortunately, even though those few technically good are good, they just can't make me look great, just good.
occasionally I will Photoshop out a few blemishes. It is very tempting to loose 40 to 60 pounds with the editor, but I am a realist. I am what you see. Now the backdrop does occasionally get changed.

[Judith96a]

Compared with film cameras , digital needs far less light so try and find a room with lots of ambient light but not direct sunlight , outside again avoid direct sunlight unless you use reflectors or fill in flash

Yes, that's exactly what I try to do - big north-facing windows are great, lots of well diffused light. What I do notice, certainly with my Lumix G5, is that as you push the ISO rating up (I prefer to set the 'film speed' manually rather than use auto-ISO) the camera's ability to automatically correct the colour balance goes to pieces. Still, being able to set the camera to ISO 1600 and snap away indoors without flash is very convenient. Great for candid shots!
I also find the built-in flash to be at least two stops too powerful and very harsh. So, for some family photos over Christmas, I resurrected my Canon TL300 and bounced it off the ceiling. No auto of course so I had to footer with guide nos and aperture!


As for smearing Vaseline on lenses, no way !
Agreed - dunno who started that old wives tale but it's a good way of destroying a perfectly good lens. If I want soft focus, I take the photo properly focused and post process with Photoshop.

[CostaRicaRachel]

Thanks for the comments. But I kind of agree with Taylor:

The mirror tells a favorable lie and the camera tells the inconvenient truth.

I really appreciate the comments about my avatar.

I believe it is the most flattering photo of me I have, too bad it is not the most
accurate. I'm not sure what makes it so good:
Poor lighting so you can't see my wrinkles?
An angle makes my eyes large and my chin smaller?
The only makeup I'm wearing is mascara and lipstick, so it's not the makeup.

I assure you, I have 99 more photos that are not near as flattering.

[Lydianne]

@CostaRicaRachel.

Regarding the inconvenient truth vs the favourable lie: You could investigate that, I think. Look at yourself in the mirror at a slight angle and take a mental note of how you look. Then take the camera and aim it from the side of you into the mirror so that it gets a somewhat similar profile of you after reflection to what you had just been looking at. Take the picture, court adjourned :) .

Ellestreet and Tracii G both mentioned the reflected image vs the plain image that we are not used to. I would hazard a guess that another contributor might be that when we focus on something, the left eye and the right eye each see a slightly different image due to their positions relative to the target, and the composite gets processed in the brain. It allows us to have a better perception of depth. I am not sure whether a non-3D camera emulates that. I haven't heard that it does, but I am neither an expert nor an enthusiast. I use a webcam, for crying out loud!!! :eek: .

If you are good at seeing stereograms ( some people get them straight away, while others can't ), then I guess you could close one eye and look deadly straight into the mirror with the other and, with peripheral vision, consider the image. Then change back and forth with the other eye, doing the same. You will notice a difference. This is actually very difficult to do because we are so trained to want to look towards the image rather than straight ahead perpendicular to the mirror. Those that can resist that inclination ( those that are good at stereograms ) will be able to see it.

But you and Taylor make a good point. The camera could be considered the 'truth' because of this, and the way we see what we see in the mirror could be the 'lie' because of how images are processed with two eyes. But on the other hand, if other people are also using two eyes . . . .

:2c:

[docrobbysherry]

My camera makes Sherry look like a pretty woman! (Plus, I can easily remove the small blemishes). No one has every mistaken her for one in real life up close except on Halloween!:sad:

Sherry also looks great in my mirrors.:daydreaming: Until I put my glasses on. (I'm near sited). Which I've learned not to do!:battingeyelashes:

[NicoleScott]

Many or most photo editing software allows you to flip (horizontally) the image, allowing a better comparison with the image in the mirror.
I did a good makeup job and good photo session, only to see later that one eye (fake lashes and eye makeup) was not as good as the other eye. So I cheated. To one of the photos, I did a cut, flip, and paste of my good eye to replace the bad eye. Much better, and I CAN sleep at night.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

If I want soft focus, I take the photo properly focused and post process with Photoshop.

That works if you shoot in RAW and are a photoshop expert, but not quite as useful for those who don't shoot RAW and aren't.


(I prefer to set the 'film speed' manually rather than use auto-ISO) the camera's ability to automatically correct the colour balance goes to pieces.

And there's more grain.

All of the various advice above works best with a point and shoot with some manual features. Cell phones aren't good cameras.

As above, manually set the ISO and you should probably manually set the color balance to what looks best of your camera's choices.

Use a Tripod, with the camera as high as you can get it.

Remote shutter or timer...NO selfie sticks.

Long lens, wide aperture. Meaning if you camera has a zoom, Extend it also If your camera has a portrait mode try that or use aperture mode or a programmable semi-automatic mode.

Pantyhose filter with a rubber band.

Soften the flash with tissue/cellophane, bounce it with an index card. sticky tack and tape will help.

Use more indirect light.

Veronica

[Suzie Petersen]

Mirrors are just not what they used to be! I had one 30 years ago with a much better image quality than the ones I have seen lately ;)



Originally Posted by Judith96a
If I want soft focus, I take the photo properly focused and post process with Photoshop.
That works if you shoot in RAW and are a photoshop expert, but not quite as useful for those who don't shoot RAW and aren't.

Actually, Focus or Soft Focus is not one of the camera settings shooting in RAW allows you to change after the fact. You can add this effect in most image processing applications, it is usually implemented as "Blur". For advanced users there are a lot of ways to add this effect to get that soft dreamy image effect but you can also simply Blur the image to help hide some of the brutal truths of reality.

Bottom line is this: Taking good pictures does not come free. If you want more that a snapshot, you have to invest some time in learning how to take a good picture and also how to process the digital image file. If you are still using actual film, you are likely a photography enthusiast and already know all of this :)

With the right knowledge and experience, you can take and make good pictures with even a simple camera and setup, but even the best camera is not going to help you if you dont know how to use it right.

- Suzie

[audreyinalbany]

if nothing else, I take some consolation in knowing that so many girls have the same problem with photos that I do. Usually when I take photos it puts me off crossdressing for weeks...It'd be fun to have a real professional take some pics

[Maria Blackwood]

I bought a possessed mirror from a passing gypsy troupe one day specifically to lie to me.

It's just different lighting and contrast. My iPhone heavily enhances any blemishes on my skin, for example. Ones you can barely see with your eyes. Pro photographers have all sorts of lighting equipment and fret over it a lot.

[Leslie Mary S]

As I posted before I like to take self photos but not phone selfies. I started with film cameras back in the late 50s. I now use remote releases (have two different types)
I have been using Paint Shop Pro since the 80s. I have tried Photo Shop. in the end it is what you prefer. I rarely use a soft focus. I use either a camera mounted tilt head flash of my studio strobes.
I love some of my self photos and several CD girls that I have taken.
Maybe I will plan a road trip and take photos of CD girls along the route.

[Judith96a]

If I want soft focus, I take the photo properly focused and post process with Photoshop.

That works if you shoot in RAW and are a photoshop expert, but not quite as useful for those who don't shoot RAW and aren't.

Also works perfectly well if you don't shoot in RAW. There are any number of apps out there which will allow you to add soft focus. You don't need to be an expert of any description to use Photoshop to add soft focus. You just have to be willing to try several times before you get it right (the first time)!





(I prefer to set the 'film speed' manually rather than use auto-ISO) the camera's ability to automatically correct the colour balance goes to pieces.

And there's more grain.

Yes, there's really no substitute for having adequate, reasonable quality, light. How you achieve that is another matter!



Cell phones aren't good cameras.


Depends what you mean by 'good'. In terms of image quality for casual snaps in reasonable lighting they vary between meh and surprisingly good. However, they're not very capable, compared to a 'real' camera, especially dealing with low light and/or crossdressers who want decent quality portraiture!

Ironically, they're not fantastic as out-and-out phones either!



As above, manually set the ISO and you should probably manually set the color balance to what looks best of your camera's choices.

Use a Tripod, with the camera as high as you can get it.

Remote shutter or timer...NO selfie sticks.

Long lens, wide aperture. Meaning if you camera has a zoom, Extend it also If your camera has a portrait mode try that or use aperture mode or a programmable semi-automatic mode.

Pantyhose filter with a rubber band.

Soften the flash with tissue/cellophane, bounce it with an index card. sticky tack and tape will help.

Use more indirect light.

Veronica

Here's my take...
If you want really good photos, get someone else to take them! Much easier than messing around with self-timers, remote releases etc.
If you can't do that then two things - figure out how to get decent light and ditch the smartphone.
Almost any point & shoot digital camera will give you more control than the smartphone (and the lens will probably be a lot better too)
Longish lens, smallish aperture (for decent depth of field unless you really enjoy manual focus), plenty of nice soft light
If you must use the flash then find some way of softening it - any form of clear, translucent material over it will help. Bounce it off a white ceiling or card.
If you want to use the effects that are built in to the camera then fine, but take a few shots without the effects too (just in case the effect turns out to be not quite what you wanted)
Relax!

And when you're totally frustrated because you can't get a decent photo out of the @£&-£@-#&+ thing - find a friend!

Maybe some day I'll take my own advice!

[CarlaWestin]

All of my cameras and mirrors are in cahoots to inspire me to dress like a girl all of the time. I'm firmly convinced they work together. And it's been real interesting lately. I finally bought myself a really nice Canon EOS Rebel. It's a fabulous camera but, I'm starting to think my little $80 Samsung is nearly as good and actually more feature filled. It's Wifi enabled and has multiple flash selections to include fill flash which eliminate those pesky corona shadows.

271323

[Edie Palmer]

http://www.zmescience.com/other/great-pics/why-you-look-ugly-photos-science-5354/

[CostaRicaRachel]

Wow Edie, thanks for the link. Makes a lot of sense!