CD and country, ethnicity, and culture

[Julie MA]

Has anyone found an authoritative study of cross-dressing by country, ethnicity, and culture? Recently completed my DNA report and wondered about any connections. Probably very difficult to draw conclusions due to the complexity of the connections, and limited data available, due to ethnic and cultural resistance to acceptance.

[Lana Mae]

I may be wrong but it seems every country, ethnicity, etc is represented. IMHO Hugs Lana Mae

[Krisi]

I don't think there is a lot of crossdressing in Muslim countries.

Also, the people we see here are mostly from English speaking countries. Seems logical since this is an English (whichever variety) language forum.

[Leslie Langford]

I think it is safe to say that the phenomenon of being transgender and having a desire to emulate the opposite sex - whether it be by through choice of clothing, behavior, or some other means is universal, and cuts across all ethnic, cultural, and socio-economic boundaries. What does vary from culture to culture or country to country is the degree of acceptance (or non-acceptance) by their respective societies at large of individuals with this proclivity.

[Acastina]

I agree with Leslie. A little reading reveals that there are historical records of transgender behavior in a wide variety of cultures, from Asian to Native American. In many cases the folks like us were revered or considered to have mystical powers, and they often occupied privileged positions in their societies.

Alas, the English-speaking or otherwise European invaders of North America went right to work demonizing and stigmatizing the two-spirit phenomenon, despite such historical precedents as the Chevalier D'Eon in their own "superior" cultures.

It would be interesting to see a modern cross-cultural survey of the incidence and nature of TG around the world, though. As is often the case, the U.S. seems to need to be dragged kicking and screaming into cultural changes that happen more quietly in other modern cultures. I just happened upon a wretched conservative blog post from a year ago, opposing the open service of TGs in the military, that claimed a suicide rate of nearly 50 percent for transitioned TSs. The actual figure from several careful studies is a "regret" rate of 1 percent for MtFs and 2 percent for FtMs, while the suicide rates for TG youth who lack access to compassionate counseling is indeed in double digits; the author simply conflated the terrified and untreated statistic with the truth about those who get help.

But, heck, Making Stuff Up is the modern Search for Truth, isn't it?

[Lorileah]

There are several fatal flaws in researching the perimeters you wish to define Julie. But as a warning here, we are not going to allow discussion of government, religion or anything else that can become a flame war.

Using history as a guide, remember that as short as 100 years ago, many people were illiterate so any record would be from the higher social groups...the aristocrats. It wasn't something stories in working class families would discuss (still isn't considering how many here are closeted) so your pool would be minimal. Yes there are stories of heroes dressing like women to spy or escape but they are all upper "class" and doing it as a needed function to survive. No proof exists on these that they did it because they were transgendered. Stories of suspected crossdressing (transgenderism) have been noted. Rulers and aristocrats who dressed (often with the caveat that they were some how unstable). People of lower class didn't have the the time, money or ability to dress. They were to busy surviving malnutrition and plagues (although we do know that courtesans were on occasion crossdressers).

I am sure that the Berdache will be mentioned here and how the native Americans all were accepting but truth on that is that the acceptance was a minority of tribes, often those who were more sentient.

Also bring into the argument that clothing in many societies was less polar, so crossdressing wasn't really an issue when men and women wore similar outfits. When history becomes more detailed via writing and publishing (and later photos because prior to that you had to hire a painter), we see an increase in noted crossdressing. We also see that often these people were considered marginal and in many cases locked up or killed so not a great impetus to be in public. Thus the representatives either had less to lose or were the very dysphoric who could not live in hiding.

Krisi notes that the cross section here is mostly white Anglo-saxon so one would conclude that it is associated with that pool, which isn't true. Also Krisi notes that certain groups don't seem to have a number of CDs. This has nothing to do with genetics or heredity, that is a social construct which really does not address the OP.

[Acastina]

Good points all, Lorileah. When the Internet of your era is Gutenberg's movable type and the painter's brushes, a lot of reality falls through the cracks. And when "the natural state of mankind" was "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short", there probably wasn't a lot of wiggle room for individuality and gender expression.

It's pretty remarkable that we have much history at all to look at on a traditionally taboo topic.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

the cross section here is mostly white Anglo-saxon so one would conclude that it is associated with that pool, which isn't true.

Then how do we explain the tiny number of members who are persons of colour? Or are they in fact represented per capita in direct proportion to society at large? I don't know the stats.

[Rachelakld]

Google fa fa fini
This is not a DNA issue but a cultural issue and here we treat them the same as any other girl.

England and Europe have had the issue for many centuries. The CDs, gays and all other "non-normals" were ostricised/murdered for it.

[Stacey-J]

Earlier last year I saw a news report about Muslim trans/cd folk overseas. It was an interesting watch, as Islam has no strict rules against crossdressing (homosexuality/bisexuality is a totally different matter). I'll look for it online and if I find a link I'll post it in this thread

[Lorileah]

Then how do we explain the tiny number of members who are persons of colour? Or are they in fact represented per capita in direct proportion to society at large? I don't know the stats.

The low numbers an be attributed to many things. One is that people of color don't feel comfortable with a section that is mostly WASP and often your perspective of their situation doesn't mesh, so they don't stay on. Also the social situations are often distant. In the USA Afro Americans are considered 12.5% of the population. I don't know what it is in Europe or Canada. They do not seem to be that high in this forum and YET the group of transpeople with the highest rate of homicide victims are the transwomen of color. So this forum specifically isn't a good cross section. Yes we have members of many race,creeds, genetics, religions, lifestyles. Sometimes they are driven away because what we offer here isn't pertinent to their lives. This is a cloistered privileged group for the most part.

Being trans is not a social construct. We don't know the origin but there are transpeople all over the world. The issue is how or if they can express it. Even societies who have clothes that are more equal genderwise, the actions and displays expected or allowed may be controlled differently. The OP asked if transpeople existed (I think) at the same rate as what is represented here wthoughout the world. I would say "yes". Can they express it? Because of societal rules, many places less so

[docrobbysherry]

I was extremely surprised while visiting Cambodia last year. I was determined to reprise Angela Jolie's Lara Croft at Ankor Wat there. While I received many raised eye brows, I saw no fisheyes or heard negative comments. The people seemed more curious and intrigued rather than offended. The smiling hotel manager happily drew me aside the next day and asked many questions about why we dressed and what it was like! NOT what I expected in a formerly authoritarian country. However, there were few, if any, Muslims or Christians in the area we visited. Mostly Buddists, I believe. Which may help explain the way we were received.

[Krisi]

Then how do we explain the tiny number of members who are persons of colour? Or are they in fact represented per capita in direct proportion to society at large? I don't know the stats.

You really can't tell what color a member is unless they post a photo where it is obvious. Even then, there's no guarantee that the photo is of the actual person so you still don't know.

In my opinion, the sooner we stop worrying about what color each of us is, the sooner it won't matter. The government is the biggest offender, they categorize everything by race.

[ReineD]

Here's a decent list to get you started. It's a wiki list of transgender names in non-Western cultures, each with their own page and details. (Section 1.1 of the article)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transgender-related_topics#In_non-Western_cultures

[Maria Blackwood]

Cambodia doesn't surprise me. Look up kathoey culture. Acceptance of it is better in Thailand, though. Some Thais see it as a regression to past lives. I'm sure they were curious to see a Westerner involved, though.