CD/TV Sighting

[Julie MA]

Saw my first MTF CD/TV in the wild today. Not enough time to read sufficiently, but I'm pretty sure. Cambridge MA, well dressed, fairly heavy makeup for 0730. I offered a smile but the lady refused eye contact, like many women in the US. Maybe I was mistaken

[Ozark]

Overheard in the grocery checkout line.

"Look Momma, there's a man dressed like a woman!"

"Hush child."

"Oh, that's ok, I hear that a lot."

[Kate Simmons]

I wonder if they publish a field guide to this like bird watching? :battingeyelashes::)

[Tracii G]

We are everywhere Julie

[Jennifer Michelle]

I believe I have seen one once in Wrigleyville near Chicago but I didn't get up the courage to talk to them or anything. They were with a group of ladies dancing so I felt like it might not be a good idea to approach them at the time. I thought they were pretty brave to come to such a crowded bar in the middle of Wrigleyville lol.

[Lorileah]

Were you wearing a CD hunting outfit? You know 6" heels and a miniskirt? You all spend WAYYYY to much tine worrying about something that is really none of your business


OH BTW, you approach me and in any manner out me or try and discuss being trans without me knowing you and you will get such a stare that cheap makeup will melt off your face. Really people grow up

[Jennifer Michelle]

My only interest in meeting another CD in person would be to potentially make a new friend or to get advice but I would be friendly about it of course. If they didn't want to talk I would leave them alone and let them go about their business lol. It's no exactly to meet up with other CDs especially since I'm pretty closeted myself.

[DIANEF]

As a fairly newbie to going out I would HATE it if anyone approached me, whether they wanted to be my 'friend' or not. If anyone ever did 'spot' me, just keep walking.

[Jennifer Michelle]

you wouldn't have to worry Diane the chances of me meeting you in public are slim to none. Plus its very unlikely I would approach another crossdresser in public because that would potentially out me too lol. :eek:

[DIANEF]

Well, yes, but I didn't mean just you, I meant anyone.

[jennifer0918]

E1 or E3 my dear 0730 or a LEO?

- - - Updated - - -


I believe I have seen one once in Wrigleyville near Chicago but I didn't get up the courage to talk to them or anything. They were with a group of ladies dancing so I felt like it might not be a good idea to approach them at the time. I thought they were pretty brave to come to such a crowded bar in the middle of Wrigleyville lol.

Jenn darling that was me in Wrigleyville!

[Pat]

OH BTW, you approach me and in any manner out me or try and discuss being trans without me knowing you and you will get such a stare that cheap makeup will melt off your face.

:lol2: I think I want to cross-stitch that onto a couch cushion...

[Julie MA]

Lorileah, why so hostile? I was happy for and proud of her. I offered a smile as I would to anyone, especially one which I admire, and I assume have something in common. Oh, and I complimented an attractive GG at lunch today. I think being friendly and acknowledging our fellow humans is my business. Julie

[ClosetED]

I saw a young preop TS as a patient a few months back - she lives 24/7 but not on hormones yet. Still using male name. I told her I was well-informed about TG issues, but did not out myself. I was tempted to show her the pic of me dressed in my lab coat and high heels and say "imagine you were seen by me dressed this way instead of drab" but it is not recommended to mix personal life with patient care.
Hugs, Ellen

[kayegirl]

Well said Lorileah, now I understand why you are one of our team of moderators.

[Billy]

Julie, you can say hello to me anytime!

[Lorileah]

Lorileah, why so hostile?

why so hostile? Because CDs think it's a game to be out. This isn't hide and seek. You don't walk up to a pretty woman and stare or give a "knowing" smile, it's rude. You don't walk up to someone and say "Hey I see by your outfit that you are a cowboy...I'm a cowboy too" it's rude. At least half the CDs here are afraid of their shadow, you smiling at them just adds to that fear if they are out. How many threads have stated "a guy said_____to me...what did he mean?"

This isn't a secret club where you look for the ring, flick the side of your nose and wink. Personally I would find it rude, and you would hear about it from me. Others would be scared (what is your intention? Are you secretly laughing or supporting "gee I thought I looked good but that person just outed me in public, now everyone will laugh or point or the manager will throw me out.") AND you make the assumption it was a CD...maybe it was a transwoman...maybe it was a transsman who hasn't changed clothes styles...maybe it was (gasp) a WOMAN and you just leered at her or made her uncomfortable. It's bad enough to have some ape stare or laugh or point or..smile (why would he do that? You know just because I am trans doesn't mean I am a hooker). CDs need to learn to be discreet. Aw hell everyone needs to be discreet, it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. Quit hunting for TGs. You know, because you are on this forum, that there are a few out there. You also know that it's a big scary world. You also know that many are just getting their sea legs and you could have very easily thrown them back into the closet.

Yeah, I'm hostile. You don't understand what is in that person's mind. They don't understand what's in yours, even as innocent as you were.

Here's the rule: If you see (what you think MIGHT be) a transperson in public...Go about your business. No smiles. No knowing looks. No secret hand waves. This isn't a giant hide and seek game

[Julie MA]

Opinion noted

[Lana Mae]

I have to agree with Lorileah on this one! You are not in the other person's head. You have no idea where they are at on their journey. Just do a mental "aha" and let it be! IMHO hugs Lana Mae

[Princess Chantal]

I have no ill will towards those in the community recognizing me as a crossdresser and approaching me. If they want to out theirselves to me that is fine and it's all good to me if they out me as being a crossdresser.

[jennifer0918]

I don't agree with Lorileah too often but I agree with all her comments on this thread

[Tracii G]

Its just common decency to mind your own business.
In this day and age people seem to think they can tell others what to do.
You see it all over face book and you can see what trouble comes from it so be considerate of that person.
I have been out enfemme and seen others of our community and it has just been a friendly smile and that is it.
No need to take it any farther than that.

[Lorileah]

I don't agree with Lorileah too often...:rofl:................

[AllieSF]

Sorry Lori, from what I read at in the OP, there was no leering, wink or otherwise, except a smile. If the OP wants to clarify that as a leer, then I will agree with you. That is what I read. As you know personally I talk to everyone, even the real and wannabe cowboys. Handled correctly, great conversations can follow. Handled poorly, who knows what will happen. I do not go up to trans people and wink, snort, nor pick my nose. If I am close enough, I may talk about the weather, the clothes selection where we are at or something that I would also say to anyone, trans, cowboy or not. I agree that a poor direct approach is wrong, but and indirect one can work.

And your comment about CD's thinking it is a game to be out is as bad or worse than someone else's poor comment about CD's playing dress up. You get sensitive and so can we. It is definitely a two way street.

[LaurenS]

That's the way I read the OP, also. I must be in the glass is half full category.

Julie, the world needs more smiles.

[Ressie]

I don't hunt for CDs in public, but I see them sometimes. I've unintentionally come face to face with CDs in stores a few times. Over the years I've learned to treat it as a non-event.

About a month ago I ran into a couple at the grocery store (a man and a woman standing in front of the frozen food section). In a friendly, civil way I had to ask them to move a bit. It turns out that the woman I was conversing with was a CD. She had no fear of the encounter at all, and of course I interacted as I would with any fellow human in a grocery store.

Things have changed IMO. About 20 years ago I came (unintentionally) face to face with a crossdresser at a store. She looked very shocked because she could tell by the look on my face that she'd been clocked. I looked away because I felt that I was invading her space (by the look on her face). At that point she fled the scene quickly!

My first sightings and encounters with CDs in public took place about 40 years ago.

[Aunt Kelly]

It might be easier to grasp the issue here, if we put ourselves in that other person's shoes. You're out, en femme, shopping (or whatever), and an unknown stranger (male) makes overtures that would be inappropriate given the situation. I'm not saying that there aren't boorish men who do that all the time. There are, and that's the point. To a cross dresser or trans person in that situation, our stranger is not just another boor. We're already skittish and now he's... what? Hitting on us? About to mock us? Worse?

I get it. I've told the story of the trans woman I used to regularly encounter at the supermarket. I wanted so badly to give "the secret sign" and "share" with her, but we were just two strangers in the grocery store. Normal social decorum in that venue dictated that I could do little more than smile if we made I contact. So that's what I did, and it still unnerved her. Imagine what anything more forward would have done.

[Acastina]

This exchange reminds me of the comedian Henry Cho's bit about Koreans. Henry is a second-generation Korean American from (I think) Tennessee who speaks with a pronounced Southern accent. So he makes jokes about people doing double-takes when they hear an Asian speaking (as he puts it) "like a hillbilly". One such bit is people who think that he must know all the other people in his city who are of Korean descent, as if having some trait in common means you all know each other.

Being a CD can seem like that, that "Oh, there's another one!" thought. In defense of Julie's OP, I read simply noticing and noting without any kind of untoward approach or outward reaction, and that's certainly harmless enough, but Lorileah makes an undeniable point if it goes beyond noticing and quietly, internally noting. None of us owes a sister acknowledgment in public, and they don't owe us. For every chance it might be welcome as kindred spirits, there are a dozen reasons why it might induce discomfort or even panic.

I do like the melt-your-makeup imagery, however. Raiders of the Lost Ark?

[Allisa]

You couldn't have, I was no where near MA.

[Pat]

I love Lorileah's answers and everyone should completely take them to heart but I'll say this: use your noodle.

When I'm out around town I often wear a necklace with a transgender symbol on it -- that's actually there to encourage conversation. I can't be outed because of the way I view my identity, so as long as you're polite and I have time, I'm happy to engage. I won't say it's automatically safe to approach someone wearing trans jewelry or other paraphernalia but I think my general deportment invites people to approach and I think that's pretty obvious. If someone is not giving off an approachable vibe or if you just don't know, please err on the side of caution. There have been times in my development where someone even looking at me would send me scurrying along the baseboard.

[Julie MA]

When finding an uncommon commonality with someone else, I want to connect. To say, I get it, and I relate. I tend toward the side which seeks to boost confidence, and acceptance, and reduce the all too common, and growing animosity I see in the world. If anyone wants to feel more comfortable with their true self, and feel more accepted in society, then they will need to accept being treated humanely, in society. And for me, that all starts with the simplest of polite, pleasantries, a smile. I'm not hunting anyone for sport. I didn't make up the term, in the wild, just using the common lexicon of terminology for this forum. So much drama and conflict in the world, which also goes for some here. Came close to signing out here for good, but there are so many nice people here that I will stay and hope the tide turns toward the positive side that is happy for improvement in our CD situation and for better treatment of all people everywhere.

[Billy]

I know how you feel and support you. I hope the atmosphere here becomes more cheerful and encouraging. However as you mentioned a few kind words while being thrashed is encouraging.

[~Joanne~]

Yeah, I'm hostile.

I agree 100%

[immindy]

Julie , If you are ever in Cincinnati And see me in a mall ( I am a shopaholic) come up and say hi ! This goes for anyone here ! I have been approached a number of times and people have said " i like your skirt " or "that outfit is cute". I am sure they suspected I was TS and I often will confirm that to them if they are nice . If you see someone who you might want to talk to who you think may be a TS or CD be polite and complement them . It is up to them if they wish to tell you if they are TS or Cd or whatnot .

Lorileah , If I saw you in public, I would certainly come up to you and compliment you on your outfit if I thought it was cute :)

[Jennifer Michelle]

No way Jenn that's crazy :)

[~Joanne~]

I need to wrap my head around this mentality, I really do.

So Your fully dressed and out in the public but NO ONE, CD or otherwise, should stop and talk to you? How do you control that situation from happening? I would think that if your brave enough, and sure enough about who you are, to be out and about, fully dressed, that you should also be willing to have interaction if it presents itself.

I know that if I were brave enough to be out there that another sister approaching me would be a lot more welcome than a muggle who's intentions are clearly unknown. Yes they might just being nice but they could also be looking to do you harm.

and cheap makeup? you assume too much. Your the only one who buys high end cosmetics?

[Tonya Rose]

Gotta agree with Joanne here..

[Lorileah]

Lorileah , If I saw you in public, I would certainly come up to you and compliment you on your outfit if I thought it was cute :)

you should introduce yourself before hand and I always look cute ;)

[DIANEF]

So Your fully dressed and out in the public but NO ONE, CD or otherwise, should stop and talk to you? How do you control that situation from happening? I would think that if your brave enough, and sure enough about who you are, to be out and about, fully dressed, that you should also be willing to have interaction if it presents itself.

I know that if I were brave enough to be out there that another sister approaching me would be a lot more welcome than a muggle who's intentions are clearly unknown0

So you think you know what people should be 'brave' enough to do when out, but your not 'brave' enough to go out yourself. Why not go out and see how brave you are then.

[Lorileah]

So Your fully dressed and out in the public but NO ONE, CD or otherwise, should stop and talk to you? How do you control that situation from happening? I would think that if your brave enough, and sure enough about who you are, to be out and about, fully dressed, that you should also be willing to have interaction if it presents itself. You would huh? You don't know the person, you don't know their intent. Most people have personal space. You don't violate that space. it's just respect. And then you add


I know that if I were brave enough to be out there that another sister approaching me would be a lot more welcome than a muggle who's intentions are clearly unknown. Did I miss the part where Julie was dressed or wearing the internationally known sign in bright pink neon that says "Hey! I like women's clothes too!" Julie was dressed as a muggle. Let's go to the tape

Saw my first MTF CD/TV in the wild today. Not enough time to read sufficiently, but I'm pretty sure. Cambridge MA, well dressed, fairly heavy makeup for 0730. I offered a smile but the lady refused eye contact, like many women in the US. Maybe I was mistaken Nope wasn't dressed. Do you approach people with different ethnicity just to say "Hey I support you?" Do you approach a GG in public you don't know to say "Hey I like your _____?" (If you do be prepared for the results. In some areas that is sexual harassment).

Shall we address the brave context? You aren't by your own admission. So there you are, in public, seeing shadows at every turn and this man walks up to you and smiles. You have admitted you don't want muggles doing that but here is one. What do you do? You would be scared. You would run and hide. Then afterward you would sign on here and post about how this scary person OUTED you in public and that you didn't want that attention. By Julie's own admission she didn't know for sure...what IF it was a GG, you just insulted her. Even if she was trans...and especially if she was TS, you just outed her in public. It is rude. R U D E.

[~Joanne~]

Nope, didn't say that at all. That's you twisting the words to suit your needs. Sorry I am not an English major and have trouble from time to time expressing myself properly. The whole subject is about approaching, or NOT approaching a sister while she is out at this point though the OP didn't start the subject that way. It was actually about SEEING a sister while she is out but it quickly became toxic and a whole other subject. It happens when the first negative nancy posts.

My post was about whether you actually have any control over who approaches you or not. If your out there, there's no way to stop ANYONE from approaching you, whether they are friendly or not, guess you'll find that out one way or another soon enough but I'd rather have a sister, in drab, approach me rather than a closed minded muggle who is out to do me harm.

It's funny that we have talked about how alone we felt before the internet came into being but we are still at that point when we are out and about to this day just because we are under some invisible CD rule that states you can't approach a sister to even say "Hi". The world doesn't change until WE change.

[Lorileah]

I'd rather have the guys from Publisher's Clearinghouse approach me but I am missing your point...I get the idea that if another CD who was dressed came up to you, you would welcome it. Cool, that happens at bars It doesn't happen at Sears. Even when I have seen people I suspect were Trans, I don't approach them. I also don't approach women who are alone or men who are handsome (or ugly come to think of it) or older people (unless it is obvious they can't get that can off the top shelf, then I grab it fr them AFTER asking if I can help and walk away). I don't approach anyone I suspect may be in some way feeling afraid or nervous.

As a TS, I don't want people to notice I am TS. I am a woman. I am in public as a woman all the time. If I saw you, as a CD, out in public I would assume you really don't want everyone staring and pointing at you. I don't. So I wouldn't approach you. If it were a social setting such as a bar or fund raiser, that MAY be different. But in a daily situation, no way (unless you were in distress...then I would). Why do you assume that normal rules of engagement are suspended because you belong to the same order (and especially if you are NOT presenting as that order)? Joanne, you confuse me. You are afraid to be out but say if you were you would WANT contact? It's contradictory. And I can pretty much promise that the vast majority of CDs here don't want people walking up to them in public. I KNOW the TSs here don't want you making a public display of seeing us (even if you know our tells). And in general any approach by any man, no matter HOW he is dressed, to a GG is considered rude and scary.

And I don't get this whole fascination of hunting transgendered people. We aren't birds in the park. Nor are we Yetis or Loch Ness Monsters. If we wanted people to approach us, we would let you know that (with a sign or name tag) I know you all want to have confirmation that you aren't alone. You would think being online here would be enough confirmation. If it isn't, how about joining your local Gender Center or going to events where TGs cluster. That should remove your feeling of isolation. Of course you have to get out. Support is awesome, we love support. Just not from people we don''t know in situations we don't want it

I haven't looked to see where you're from but the rules pretty much stay the same in small towns vs large cities albeit for different reasons.

[NyssaF]

What you see as a polite gesture might not be taken as such by someone else, as the responses on this forum have shown. I tend to agree with Lorileah on this one - I don't want anyone to notice me. In general, I assume that someone making eye contact with me and smiling is doing so because they are amused - not in a good way. Some may, some may not, but I've mostly experienced the negative part so I will pessimistic about intentions.

[AllieSF]

This regularly discussed topic of seeing someone similar in public is a common one here. I see that there are several, sides to it. One is just the seeing of someone similar as them, which can be good because it helps let them know that they are not isolated in the this not totally socially accepted side of life that they are involved with. They can also see how they dress and how other people react to them. All good for their own self confidence, and maybe helping them fine tune their own presentation style. If they see that person acting naturally and everyone around them doing the same, that can help them better accept themselves. Another may be the need or desire to meet someone similar to themselves and maybe get into a conversation about this side of themselves and how to make it work. This meeting and talking to goal is where caution is needed.

Once noticed what does the Noticer do? As said by many here, the direct approach and then self identification as "me too", is not the best way to go. Some, maybe many or most would not like that for all the reasons given above. I personally like it and am not ashamed of who I am or what I do. However, an indirect approach, i.e. an approach that one would use with anyone else by talking or commenting on the products nearby in the sore or the food on the menu with NO mention of trans/CD anything is fine. If a conversation develops that is great. If not, move on. A smile is not an intrusion on anyone's privacy and personal space, because strangers do that all the time when the make intentional or accidental eye contact. Women tend to smile and men tend to nod their heads. If the wary, shy, introverted receiver of such an encounter gets upset, in my opinion, that is a problem that they need to learn how to deal with because that type of informal encounter will happen every time when they are pout in the real world.

The ability to approach a complete stranger and start up a conversation or give a compliment to them for something in particular, a colorful or wordy T-shirt, nice outfit on a women, and even a sharp suit on a man in this world of business casual, can bring great rewards to both parties, even if very brief. This stay away from your unknown neighbor on the street is being taken way too far. We live in a social world and need to learn to function in it. That does not mean that strangers can rudely insert themselves in other's spaces. It also means that one can make their own personal space so large as to think that everyone else can avoid it.

Rude can be interpreted differently by each person. If one is shy, introverted or lacks workable social skills, they may interpret any contact with strangers as intrusions and rude, unless as Lori said one is in a specific area where they know it is unavoidable or it is their goal to try to interact with others, like a bar or club. I myself always interact with strangers with almost zero issues and zero serious issues. Forgetting about me, I see people interacting with strangers all the time in all types of circumstances, like in a restaurant when someone at the table next to them has something lightly embarrassing yet funny happen to them and then the table next to them join in the moment to empathize and support the person. It is part of living in the real world where we see and interact with people all the time.

[immindy]

Wow , I must be really out of touch with this , Lorileah, because I honestly make small talk with strangers all the time and often compliment GG's on what they are wearing if I like it . I also have had many compliment me . I also talk freely about me being TS if there is some kind of connection and the person seems inquisitive and comfortable. I also often smile and have smiled at those I suspected were CD's or TS's as well as anyone else that makes eye contact with me. Now you don't go up to a person and say " I think you may be a CD are you ? " . But making small talk with strangers if you are looking at the same thing in a store or whatever is pretty common I thought ? I do it all the time and have great experiences.

I did have a guy come up to me once and he asked if I was pre or post op and of course I told him that was rude and out of line and I told mall security . But , normally people are polite and since I am outgoing people tend to be outgoing toward me .

[Ressie]

If this is the first time Julie spotted a CD after all these years I can see why it's a kind of a big deal to her. And I hope she is learning something from this group. New members often don't know what the culture of this forum is. I might have put my foot in my mouth 9 years ago!

More reality; For those that go out dressed frequently, there should be some expectation that someone is gonna approach you once in a while. It happens, and sometimes it isn't pleasant compliments. I wouldn't myself because I understand many out there aren't comfortable being out yet (myself included). And I want cross dressers to feel safe. Giving the look like "I know you're a guy" isn't cool. It's best to simply recognize someone as another person, which usually means not paying attention.

[Georgette_USA]

I agree with immindy,

I don't go looking for CD or TS, but can't say I have spotted any in my day to day activities, maybe thought it at times thou.

But as far as the complimenting other woman, I do that also, and I get quite a bit of that also. That is a natural thing I find among woman. And yes I quite often start up idle chatter with woman also. Because of my unique/weird styles I get asked a lot where I get stuff.

But with men, I seldom do the same. I tend to be suspicious of men other than the occasional smile.

For 40 years I was never stealthy, but felt if people would ask I would discuss. I may be oblivious to others at times, but I never had anyone ask or give me a hard time.

Now when out at LGBTQ clubs, when I see a CD or TS that I am not familiar with, I do make a smile and welcome them to our group. I have never had an unwelcome encounter doing that.

[valerieg]

I believe I have seen one once in Wrigleyville near Chicago but I didn't get up the courage to talk to them or anything. They were with a group of ladies dancing so I felt like it might not be a good idea to approach them at the time. I thought they were pretty brave to come to such a crowded bar in the middle of Wrigleyville lol.

I can almost guarantee you "saw one" in that neighborhood. It's just blocks from Boystown. Pinkfest takes place in Chicago every year around October and we are out and about all over the city. Watch for an announcement in the Events forum once we have the next dates nailed down. You'll be welcome. You'll meet new friends. I'm not from the Chicago area, but several attendees are.

[Krisi]

OK, Julie saw what she believed was a crossdresser and she posted this sighting here. This is not the first time anyone has posted that they saw a crossdresser in public.

I honestly don't understand what the animosity and negativity is about from some people. This is a crossdressing forum and we are crossdressers. Her sighting is something that pertains to us. For those of us who go out in public, this is an affirmation that we are not alone. For those of us who haven't been out, this is an indication that we can go out, that others are doing it. It's "crossdressing news".

As for the smile, in parts of the country where people are not up tight and self centered, it's pretty common to smile at strangers if you happen to make eye contact. Not a "I know you're trying to hide a penis under that skirt." smile, but a "Good morning, fellow human, I hope you have a pleasant day." smile. What else are you going to do, look straight through them with no expression? Stare at the pavement? In my part of the country, people smile at each other. People smile at Homer and people smile at Krisi. And both of us smile back.

Again, there's too much negativity here. Sometimes if you have nothing good to post, it's best to not post anything and go on to the next thread. We don't want members to be afraid to post anything more controversial than "I got my ears pierced." or "I ordered a new dress today."

Julie, thanks for posting. I haven't seen any crossdressers in public in my part of the country except for my own reflection in a store window. Of course being retired, I'm not out every day like I used to be but even then I don't recall ever seeing one. Either they are doing a good enough job that they pass or they are staying home. And keep on smiling. It makes you feel better and it makes the people you meet feel better.

[Gabriella111]

It's unfortunate that a few members of this forum seem to enjoy being aggressively negative and borderline confrontational in response to lovely posts. Thank you for sharing this story, Julie.

It's interesting to consider the thoughts expressed in varying threads. Currently, there is an active thread about whether or not CDs should go out in public if they're not passable. The overwhelming majority of respondents agree that very few CDs are passable and that passing isn't the point.

That considered, it's really fascinating that so many consider a stranger's smile to be a potential form of outing. If you go out, knowing you're not necessarily passable, how is someone noticing you and reacting outing you? You being out is outing yourself. If you don't want to be noticed, why are you out?

And this notion that people, recognizing some defining characteristic they share with others, don't often acknowledge that is patently false. Bus drivers, Jeep owners, motorcycle riders, etc. acknowledge one another when they pass on the road. Alumni of the same university, seeing their shared alma mater on clothing or elsewhere, will share a wave. Workers of the same industry, recognizing same by their similar uniforms, will exchange a knowing nod as they pass on a sidewalk. It is human nature to acknowledge others with whom you relate in some way. It's the foundation upon which society successfully functions.

So if a smile from a stranger sets you off, that's a personal problem. As Lauren noted, the world needs more people to smile, not less. Perhaps it would be better to simply smile back and go about your business rather than contemplate the ways you can ruin someone's day for directing a friendly, pro-social gesture your way. And if you're so scared of the big, bad world that a smile of support fills you with anger, confusion, or panic, perhaps you're not ready. You chose to go out in public, so expect to interact with the public.

If you can't accept yourself, how do you expect anyone else to accept you?

[barbara gordon]

I go out a lot . its definitely not a game for me.
i have gone out for nearly 20 years but its only in the past 4 or 5 years that it actually started to be more comfortable and confident for me to do this.

I really like good interaction with people. it makes me happy to be able to talk to people in person face to face . I hid my crossdressing for far too many years and it was a terrible awful lonely feeling.

this does not mean that I desire the humiliation of being outed by a stranger , but if someone greets me and introduces themselves as someone "who is like me" i will be happy to say hello and talk a bit .

[Ashley090]

As may Lorileah sounds hostile to somebody, I actualy agree with her. Since its not long ago i accept myself and my girl side, i am not going out (two night trips,few drives not count much) but i love to do it one day! And if that day comes I definetly wont to be approached by stranger or anyone at that point even if their intesions are friendly. If they do then i will went crazy probably. Who it is? What he wants? Did he read me? Recognize me? Am I in danger, he wanna hurt me? Did I something wrong or obvious? What I should do? What I should do?!! And how its been said, if anybody approach me bcs he or she "knows" then it signal for me that i failed in blending in and that hurt my confindence o lot probably since Ashley isnt very confident girl to begin with.
But even normaly as me in guy mode then I dont like to be approached by stragers or sales people or anyone. From my point of view its kind of weird to run at somebody I dont know, never seen him and try to be friends with him for whatever reason, even if that reason is completly friendly.
So yes, please be discreet for us, new, young, who are at begining of discovering cruel outside world ;)

[LaurenS]

Julie just "offered" a smile that either went unnoticed or unacknowledged. That's all. She didn't go all Donald Sutherland from Invasion of the Body Snatchers on the other person.

Thats all Julie posits,nothing more, nothing less. Why is so much being read into this? Could it have gone wrong? Absolutely. Could it have gone great? absolutely.

Projecting into the brief and uneventful encounter is speculation at best. Contriving a negative from the OP is simply beyond my comprehension.

but hey, I'm in fly-over land. Perhaps my ignorance is showing, and I don't get big-city things.

i try to smile at everyone. If that's wrong, I don't wanna be right.

[jjjjohanne]

The correct thing to say to a CD or TS in public is something like, "Good morning, ma'am." Then walk away. You will make her day.

[Krisi]

Julie just "offered" a smile that either went unnoticed or unacknowledged. That's all. She didn't go all Donald Sutherland from Invasion of the Body Snatchers on the other person.

Thats all Julie posits,nothing more, nothing less. Why is so much being read into this? Could it have gone wrong? Absolutely. Could it have gone great? absolutely.

Projecting into the brief and uneventful encounter is speculation at best. Contriving a negative from the OP is simply beyond my comprehension.

but hey, I'm in fly-over land. Perhaps my ignorance is showing, and I don't get big-city things.

i try to smile at everyone. If that's wrong, I don't wanna be right.

Exactly. Some people read things that were not in Julie's post and then flamed her for posting. That's rude.

[Jenny22]

Any of you ladies who are out among the normals do so because you want to be out and among 'em whether or not you pass, blend or truly present as a woman. Given that that is your choice and yours alone, you should be ready to accept any form of acknowledgement by others, including CDs in drab, that you've been clocked. As others have said, just smile. Were I to make eye contact with you, I'd smile and give you a wink!

[Krisi]

As I posted above, a smile from a stranger doesn't necessarily mean "I know there's a penis under that dress.", it's just a polite, friendly smile. People do it all the time, every day in my part of the country. I wouldn't smile at a guy standing in the next urinal, but on the street, on the sidewalk, in the mall or in a store, it's the civilized thing to do.

[Lorileah]

Krisi note the OP

Saw my first MTF CD/TV in the wild today. Not enough time to read sufficiently, but I'm pretty sure. Cambridge MA, well dressed, fairly heavy makeup for 0730. I offered a smile but the lady refused eye contact, like many women in the US. Maybe I was mistaken

You take it out of context Julie had every inkling of doing this because she suspected a cross dresser we will leave the possibility it was a GG or TS out for now). Did she smile at the man trying jeans? The old woman in the purse department? No, I would suspect she walked past those people without even knowing they were there. Think about it, do you remember the three people in the check out line you were in last? No you didn't pay attention unless there was something out of the ordinary. People have agendas. YOU are not on that agenda unless you force yourself in, then you disrupt their agenda In this world, that person comes here and starts thread "I was in Cambridge MA at a store, minding my own business when this man kept smiling at me. I don't know his intentions but I was scared so I walked away" I love the "I always smile and say hi to strangers" notes here. While you may get a nod or a half smile, you know that person is thinking "Do I know them?" "Did I do something they noticed?" "I am uncomfortable having strangers notice me, I just want to do mt thing...my agenda...and go on my way." And Krisi, Julies post here implies that she exactly was thinking "I know there is a penis under there" which for an out and about CD or TS translates into "I wanna do something freaky with you" because we have been burned in that manner before. Context is important. When you smile at a young pretty woman and you are 70 years old, it translates differently than when you were 30. That;s how life is, right or wrong.

I am from a small town in the midwest. No one is a stranger there (unless you violate their codes). People wave at each other as they drive pass. They smile and say hi at the mall....unless the other person isn't like them. So it has to be read as such. In that mall, I get smiles but they aren't friendly smiles, they are sneers and leers. I wave and I get the finger back. So what to do? Retreat into your space. Be defensive. That true mile, as Julie gave, is no longer read as such. Now I live in a great metropolitan city. No one waves, even neighbors. No one smiles (and gawd forbid you smile at a youngster as a man or a "t" because it will be misinterpreted). In the case of this thread, Julie was innocent but she didn't know the protocol. She violated that person's space. With time, we learn the signs of when you can approach or signal. I know if I am in a social situation, people will approach me. Some will out of friendship, some out of curiosity and few from aggression. I am prepared for all the above. When I am in a store, the rules are changed. While some maybe friendly, one assumes that if they approach you, you have violated their agenda in some manner. Thus you are on the defensive all the time.

If you want to take this thread into the "everyday" world where both Julie and the person she sees are dressed as men, would Julie have smiled? If she had, would the other person have smiled back? Probably not. Would you all be upset that the other person didn't smile back? No, because that's how life is. Now, if Julie had smiled at your wife and you saw it, how would you interpret that? Innocent? Salacious?

Yes we want to join together and be a community. We should join together and be a community in order to advance. But we need to make sure that we are all on the same page especially in a situation where we don't expect to see another TG. This is our world, we suspect the worst about every situation because we have been burned so many times before. In a situation where you are alone nd shopping, the LAST thing you need is to have attention drawn to you, even innocently, because that giant neon sign flashes above your head that reads "COME LOOK AT THE TWO TGS OVER HERE!"

I am going in circles here so I will quit. But know that if you see me in public nd you do something to make me noticeable, I will be quiet and maybe cordial, bu inside I will dislike you for putting me in a position I cannot control. As for members here who see me, post it and then we can PM and set up a meeting and talk and talk and laugh...just not in the middle of Target. YMMV

[AllieSF]

Lori,

You must have very different experiences from many of us who have already commented in this thread and most of the people I know and associate with. Your opinion is based on your experiences and realities. Mine and others is based on our experiences and realities. You disagree with me and I disagree with you about smiling at a stranger when out, whether dressed in the opposite gender or not. As you view our approach as something wrong and intrusive, I see it and experience it as inclusive and friendly. You can live in your world where you are recommending don't smile at anyone and no one should be smiling at you. I will live in mine and enjoy every day that I can smiling at others, and heaven forbid actually starting a pleasant conversation with a complete stranger.

Your personal internal pain is in reality yours, not ours and we are not intentionally out there to make you feel that pain. However, in the real world I live in now and have lived in all over the USA and South America for almost 70 years, strangers smile at each other and even talk to each other every single day. It is unfortunate that you feel this way, but the outside world needs to move forward and stay friendly and hospitable to all, not exclusive and cold. Occasionally someone may get unintentionally hurt and that is sad. However, do we all need to change for those few? And just to make clear, I do not go up to a suspected or obvious trans person (CD to TS) and start talking about my or their transness. I treat tham equally as any other human being out there. We want to be treated equally and being friendly for a vast majority of people is the norm.

[CD Tammy]

I have seen a couple crossdressers out in public over the years. Like the OP, I was wishing that I could come up with a way to approach the crossdresser without seeming like a creeper. It's not because I would have any desire to make the crossdresser feel uncomfortable but more out of serious respect for the bravery of being so open about dressing and maybe to make a friend of a kindered spirit who has taken steps beyond which I am.

Personally, I have been out in public dressed, in daylight, once. It was a great experience. A member of this forum invited me to a group of like minded people. While there were reasons that the group would not work for me, it was still a great experience walking around downtown Atlanta dressed in public and dining out, while dressed.

If someone had walked up to me, I'd have probably died right then but I got bravery from being with others who were experienced.

[immindy]

I still say , after reading Lorileah's last comments, that we must live in a totally different world. I agree with Allie and my experiences are similar to hers, apparently , as I have already expressed .If anyone sees me out and about please come up and say hi .

[Becky Blue]

I think its very personal. For some of us when we are out we simply want to go about our business and be left alone, others are very much wanting to be noticed and therefore recognised. Speaking for myself, when I was dressed up to the 9's standing with a friend near Divas in San Francisco and a woman approached us to join them as her "husband loved tgirls" to quote her, whilst we declined her offer it felt good to be singled out. On the other hand last year I was out at a major shopping centre here in Melbourne, the last thing I wanted was for anyone to notice me.

When I am out and about in drab and see a CD/TG person i always think I would love to connect with them, but would never do it as I respect their privacy.

If you want to spot 'TGirls' clearly Melbourne is the place to be, I have seen 4 in the past month and as posted in other threads two had beards, maybe there is a sub culture here I don't know about.

[Jessica S]

"Let us met each other with a smile, for the smile is the beginning of love" Mother Teresa

" Your smile will give countenance that will make people feel comfortable around you" Les Brown

"Lighten up, just enjoy life, smile more, laugh more, and don't get so worked up about things." Kenneth Barangh.

"A gentle word, a kind look, a good-natured smile can work wonders and accomplish miracles." William Hazlitt

"A smile is the light in your window that tells others that there is a caring, sharing person inside." Denis Waitley

"What sunshine is to flowers, smiles are to humanity. These are but trifles, to be sure; but scattered along life's pathway, the good they do is inconceivable." Joseph Addison

It is good to smile at people. I travel a lot and always smile at people. Not matter what race, gender or age. It shows you don't have malice towards them and you are friendly.

With that said, I agree with Joanne, Krisi, Immindy, AllieSF and Jenny 22.

If you are out in about in public you are acceptable to what the public has to offer. Some here need to get of their high horse with there expectations on how everyone should act in public. And speaking for groups(TS, CD, women, old people) as a whole like they are the "Word". We live in a society. The means being social. Just be positive in your interaction and let that vibe spread. You don't want to be hostile and let that spread(we see what that's done). As it is been said if you a CD/TS you are mostly likely going to be read. Most people don't care, its your own thing. But being in public puts you in a position to have encounters with others. I (now speaking for myself) would like them to be positive. Not like what I say on YouTube the other day where a teenage boy chased a CD through a target videoing her and snickering.

"Great men show politeness in a particular way; a smile suffices to assure you that you are welcome, and keep about their avocations as if you were a member of the family." John James Audubon

[Ressie]

Why smile? Is there something happening that's making you smile? Is it a genuine smile or a pretentious smile? Maybe you're smiling just because you feel good. That doesn't mean the whole world will smile with you. And not all smiles are nice are they? What are the thoughts behind that smile? No one reads your mind, but they do read body language. If the smile is fake or if there are wrong thoughts behind it, most people will pick that up.

I've gotta say in my town (and it's not a major city) it would be out of the ordinary to smile at everyone you pass by. There has to be a reason for interaction for smiling to be accepted as the norm. I smile at some folks at the local grocery store because I know the cashiers and some folks like to chat a little when in line. At the larger stores not many people interact that way.

If I have a reason to interact with another CD in public, I'll do it with a smile. But there's rarely a reason to interact with anyone I don't know that's just passing by. So OTOH, don't smile! :)

[Jessica S]

Wow nothing to smile about sorry about your luck. Well I live in a big City and I go downtown Detroit a lot. I have never had an issue and most people smile back. Your smiling in your picture you must be thinking something evil by you logic.

[Ressie]

I've got plenty to smile about Jessica. Most people around this area seem to take on a cool demeanor. They seem to think it's cool not to smile or acknowledge everyone else. Maybe they're just not concerned with people they don't know.

The thing is none of us were present to witness the OP's story. But since the "lady" refused eye contact maybe she felt uneasy about the guy walking by smiling at her.

[Gabriella111]

A smile is never a violation of someone's space.

I can't wrap my brain around going out in public when the thought of friendly interaction with the public is so terrifying.

[daphne_L]

I'm so glad that the last time {and every time} I was out dressed in public, I was treated to friendly smiles and even a few friendly short conversations from the general public. Thank goodness I wasn't given the cold shoulder by everyone who noticed me.

I have noticed that the more comfortable and confident I become, the more friendly others become. But that is a good thing too. I like friendly, it certainly beats the alternatives.

- - - Updated - - -

I just re-read the thread, and realized that those against smiling have a point. Every friendly interaction I've had while out felt natural, not contrived. They were interactions that would have been just as natural and friendly if I was a GG. Contrive friendliness, or friendliness that wouldn't have felt natural if I was a GG, probably would have bothered me a fair bit.

Treat CD's you don't know the same way you would treat GG's you don't know in the same situation. And, if the way you treat GG's makes them uncomfortable, fix that first and fast.