Called Sir Twice while out today

[Billy]

Glad to be a man. Even though I wore woman clothing.

[Stephanie47]

What did you expect those people to call you if you had six days worth of stubble on your face? They were calling you by the recognized gender and not the clothes you were wearing.

[DIANEF]

Well, much as I admire your efforts at going out as you do, if you do have a good stubble growth, short hair and no wig or makeup and present as manly (apart from the clothes) what else would they call you?

[Billy]

Just a comfortable outing is all. Simply one example that a guy can go out in female clothing without issue.

[ClosetED]

Nice to hear that they were civil and friendly. But the world we live in still expect a binary gender,and so they need to use sir or madam, or none at all. So since they did not use none, I imagine the greeter was politely but intentionally noting that you were non-conforming.
What would have preferred they say?
Would you be willing to try to more completely look feminine and see if the pronoun changes?
Have others tried this experiment?
Nice discussion on where society stands. Could you provide the region or estimate how TG friendly area the area is?
Hugs, Ellen

[Billy]

I was pleased they were friendly and called me sir. To me that indicates they saw me as a confident man.

[Jenniferathome]

...even though I was wearing very feminine clothing and carrying a purse people I interacted with chose to refer to me as sir.


.. The goatee is gone but 6 day stubble. ...

Ya think? You were presenting as a MALE wearing feminine clothing. Women's clothing does not make anyone a woman.

[Laurana]

Meh.

If I had a nickel for every time I got called "Ma'm"......from behind.....with nothing but my long hair to go by, I'd be rich.

It's always fun to watch them squirm when they realize they've made a mistake. :)

[Lorileah]

:brolleyes: what did you want. You have been on here for weeks now, you have made it clear you are a MAN who likes dressing. Ya gets what ya pays for. If you don't want "sir" wear a name tag

[Billy]

On the contrary. I was very happy to be accepted and recognized and called sir and not ignored and called nothing. I think everyone new to going out in public should be excited when they feel accepted.

[Jaylyn]

I say that what you proved is that maybe where you went the folks were nice and could care less if you enjoy wearing Capri pants, panty hose women's shoes, pink purse, blouse and a purse. I would say the employees of shopping area are very considerant to people and are probably trained to be that way.
Maybe now try it with full makeup and a wig with no stubble.

[Allisa]

When I go out en-femme as full expression of self I get ma'amed and if I get sired I am disappointed by not deterred. There is no way I "pass" as female so in referring to me in the feminine is I believe a polite way of acknowledging my efforts to be me, even though they may not know my motives. If you are showing that you are just a man who enjoys wearing feminine clothing than what do you expect? you will get sired, it's better than a lot of other things you could be called.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

They called you sir, but they may have assumed you were deranged and were possibly being polite for fear that you might bite them or something.

If you want to know what they really think, you would get a more objective response by befriending them and gradually getting them to let their guard down, then after say a year, quietly bringing up the subject of stubbled men who wear dresses.

I very much look forward to your continuing experiments.

Best wishes, Nikki

[Billy]

I don't think deranged would be on their mind. I delivered a friendly smile and spoke politely. I don't think they perceived me as a threat.

[mykell]

billy has been posting as a man for a few weeks now, he shared that he went out as himself in womens clothes, crossdressed, he went out in clothes that he liked, to him they were merely clothes, he was true to himself and yet there seems to be some discord and some felt they needed to give a dig at how he choose to present, he presented as a man in a dress, that is his thing, you have your thing, i have mine....

good on you billy for getting out and being your"self",
happy that it was pleasant for you and folks seemed to not have a problem how you presented.
i have witnessed what i will assume are like minded folks, one time at a payless, same presentation, few days growth, LBD.....no wig or makeup, i tried to linger to see if i could hear any comments, a few second looks from folks, the SA was pleasant, but no time to linger any further....

[StephanieM]

Personally I hate being called sir, makes me feel like I'm old. :D

I think it's great you're comfortable enough to go out dressed, Billy, if only all of us could feel that comfortable, but I'm slowly coming along with it myself.

[Tracii G]

You present as a man in womens clothes so what did you expect to happen?
If you are nice to people generally they are nice back so whats the problem and again what did you expect?

[Billy]

A thought crossed my mind as I passed a sports bar on my way home from the store today. I thought that if I went into a facility, sat down and had a few cocktails and then decided to frequent that facility, after a while, the regulars would think nothing of Billy in women's clothing.

[Tracii G]

It seems you are all about the shock factor and wanting to see how others react.
I will say you play with fire long enough you will get burned eventually.
All it takes is one Bubba that hates what you are to come down on you hard.
You feel the need to throw things in peoples faces they will turn on you.
Be warned is all I'm saying

[StephanieM]

That's probably true Billy. Once people get used to it they probably will only notice if you show up in drab.

[Billy]

It seems you are all about the shock factor and wanting to see how others react.
I will say you play with fire long enough you will get burned eventually.
All it takes is one Bubba that hates what you are to come down on you hard.
You feel the need to throw things in peoples faces they will turn on you.
Be warned is all I'm saying

Why would you insinuate that I throw things in peoples faces? I am respectful, pleasant, and kind.

[lingerieLiz]

That's OK I was wearing jeans and t-shirt albeit women's and no wig or makeup gave the woman my male name and she proceeded to call me mam for the next hour. I wasn't even wearing a bra. I did notice later I had a lot of sagging projection without one. Maybe it is my meds.

[Tracii G]

You have your own way of dressing and you are more than free to do as you wish.
So maybe its not throwing things in peoples faces technically but six days of beard growth wearing a blouse ,skirt.purse how do you think that looks to most people?
Again do what you want I'm not going to argue with you.

[DIANEF]

I am respectful, pleasant, and kind.

I wouldn't doubt that you are Billy, but sooner or later, especially in a bar, you'll come across someone who isn't.

[Billy]

The bar I passed when the thought crossed my mind is a nice upper scale sports bar/Italian restaurant. They have a regular crowd of respectable clientele. I would think if I became a regular and some hoodlum entered and started to cause trouble, the hoodlum would be the one to get thrown out.

[Jamie001]

Why do folks need to call you anything? If they are interacting with you all they need to do is to say "hello, can I help you". They don't need to say sir, mam, or miss. All they need to do is to be polite and helpful.

[docrobbysherry]

Billy, I think u LIKE being noticed and the center of attention when you're out. Otherwise, there's no way you'd go out dressed that way.:eek:
I'm good with that for u!:thumbsup:

But I, on the other hand, do not. The only way I can go out and not attract attention is to wear loose, sloppy, granny gear. And, for me that is NOT crossdressing. It's wearing a despicable disguise. So, I simply won't go out dressed to vanilla venues if I can avoid it!:)

[Billy]

I am not exactly sure what motivates my dressing. I do not however think it is the shock factor. If it was only shock, I would not have told this to my wife and son. I would have just gone out and shocked people. I love my wife and kids. If it was shock, the thought about being treated as normal as a regular at the bar would not have crossed my mind. There are 19,354 incorporated areas in the United States. If only one crossdresser in each of these areas did what I am doing, men wearing dresses would be common place in the US. I just want to be able to wear what I want to wear.

[MelanieAnne]

We need an emogi for rolleyes!

Aha! I found it! :brolleyes:

[Taylor186]

Sounds a little like High-Heel Neil: The story of High-Heel Neil (reprint) (http://aosoc.org/silhouette/2007/March2007.htm#blog)

[Billy]

Taylor
After some disappointing responses to my questions and posts, thanks to you and this article I finally have made a connection with my dressing.
Seriously I Thank You. I forwarded the article to my wife to read. Very good article.

[docrobbysherry]

I didn't mention "shock", Billy, because it didn't occur to me. But, do u shock some people?:eek:

[Lorileah]

The bar I passed when the thought crossed my mind is a nice upper scale sports bar/Italian restaurant. They have a regular crowd of respectable clientele. It may appear so but it is a bar and there is alcohol and there is testosterone (see "sports bar"). While you may be tolerated, especially for a short time, it is doubtful they will take you under their wing if you drive off customers or become something that attracts attention. Remember it is someone else's business you are, or could be, disrupting. And pack mentality is a bad thing.
would think if I became a regular and some hoodlum entered and started to cause trouble, the hoodlum would be the one to get thrown out. Let us know how that works for you. Also it's a long way from the front door to your car if they DO get thrown out. In some areas you are the hoodlum because you are causing the disruption. The owner could call you a nuisance or annoyance. While you may think you are protected, you may check your local and state laws about hate crimes and trans-protection. That skirt doesn't stop black eyes.

I side with the shock value people on this. Trust me as one who has been in the LGBT community for years. What you think is acceptance (and it is more acceptable in the LGBT community than the muggle community) is really tolerance and it has limits. I can't decide if you are brave or you just don't get the danger.

[Tracii G]

I agree and well said Lorileah.
Tolerance is not acceptance and to confuse the two is foolishness.

[phylis anne]

If you don't want "sir" wear a name tag

LOl sorry Lorileigh in my past life my name tag read bad dog get off the couch and stop licking that ! leave it to a far northerner to display hiss/her sense of bizzare humor

[AllieSF]

You see Billy how wonderfully accepting this crowd here can be. You are an adult and are more than capable of accepting and dealing with the consequences of your own decisions and actions. You sound like you know what you are doing and are discovering your own freedom to be yourself. Around here, it recently seems like a lot of members here want to coerce everyone to do it their way, or heaven forbid, you are setting a bad example for the community that some of those same people say that the do not belong to. It appears that they don't read what they write and apparently don't realize that they sound just like some people out there in the other real world who say the same about all of us as we try to be ourselves.

I have been here for quite a few years and it really is interesting how we still cannot support others similar to ourselves who decide to present differently from the majority. No one here has to follow your path or adapt your style, or even like it, but I would expect most here to support your right to do what you do. We have had several members, not many around here now, maybe for obvious reasons, who presented as men in dresses with or without a wig and with or without facial hair. I must say that this recent attitude is actually worse than before. They want live and let live and then won't support that in their own community.

Billy, keep the faith and do what you need to do. Hopefully this negative attitude will lessen and go away and your posts will be better received.

Mikell, Thanks for the good post.

[Lorileah]

No one isn't accepting Billy, just wondering about the agenda. The OP was about being called "sir". The OP has stated many times that they are a man wearing a skirt or dress. Conclusion, they are called "sir" because of presentation. Billy has had plenty of acceptance and kudos when they said they weren't following the standard here. However, what did the OP think they response to their post would be? "Ah man, Billy that sucks. You presented as not a woman and not a man. They should have called you...um...uh...."? Maybe we missed the point of the OP? Maybe they were happy they were called "sir" and wanted to state that? Can you point out where the rest of us went astray on our interpretation?

We all know Billy is pushing the envelope. Hey, that's great. MLK did it. Gloria Steinem did it. Cesar Chavez did it. Stonewall patrons did it. I have seen nothing here saying how Billy presents is wrong.

[Tracii G]

Billy seems to be accepted here Allie.
He is different thats for sure which is fine.
Maybe its the manner in which he posts and responds to others.
He comes off judgemental and semi homophobic at times is all I have noticed.

[OCCarly]

Just for educational purposes I want to share this tidbit. Bearing in mind that I am transgender and have been on hormones for several months, I have learned that if I don't take care of the beard stubble or shadow, I get "sirred" just about all the time, even if I am wearing relatively feminine clothing. On the other hand, if I go to the trouble of laying on the makeup and making sure the beard shadow is taken care of, then I get called ma'am and treated as a woman.

This observation was a major factor in leading me to cross the rubicon of arranging for permanent facial hair removal via laser therapy. After two sessions, I am already at a point where I need a lot less concealer to banish the shadow.

If you want to go for genderqueer and don't mind being gendered male, then enjoy it. But if you want to be gendered female, then it's time to get a close shave, and break out the foundation, the concealer, and the sponges.

[Lauri K]

While Billy may seem to be accepted by many here, I for one do not see any humor in his posts

I guess what seem's out of sorts to me is why is Billy posting in the male to female thread section

He is clearly a male wanting to be seen as a male with no attempt to be feminine other that a few articles of outerwear and enough facial hair to make a coal miner say "dude did you forget to shave this week"

Given the pressure the community in under right now I find Billy's presentation an insult to all of us who are spending much time and effort to be as feminine as we can despite all the testosterone poisoning we have gone through and are working feverishly to overcome

I am a live and let live person, so I wish you good luck in your adventures............... but with all due respect you do not represent me or my fellow MTF sisters by going out like you do.......last thing we need right now is your agenda to shock and awe everyone

[Billy]

Lauri,
I am sorry you feel the way you do. I never intended any humor in any of my posts. I am new to this and am simply trying to wrap my mind and conscience around the entire issue. From everything I have read there is not a one size fits all or standard for cross dressing. I have heard there is a huge variation and people need to find what they are comfortable with. I am trying to do that.

[MelanieAnne]

I think Billy is a troll and is just playing us! There, I said it!

[toniinoz]

I must say I agree with LaurieK Toni

[Billy]

I think Billy is a troll and is just playing us! There, I said it!
I am not a troll

[sometimes_miss]

Ya gets what ya pays for. If you don't want "sir" wear a name tag
Best suggestion, ever, to the pronoun discussion.

[Samantha777]

Don't know why you are surprise. It's just natural human reaction, they could offend the person too if that person identify as male. Even on your profile you name yourself Billy instead of a female name.

[Lorileah]

I guess what seem's out of sorts to me is why is Billy posting in the male to female thread section




because...

Male to Female Crossdressing

This forum is for discussing all aspects of Male to Female Crossdressing. All members can post in this section, it is not restricted to just MTF members.

See additional information here. (In each section of the listed forums above, any member may post in any of the threads or create a thread themselves.)

Moderators - Shelly Preston and Lorileah


As long as it stays within the rules, anyone can post here. That said, no matter what your personal feelings are, be nice. Billy seems to be on a journey of exploration and questioning

[Billy]

I would have to think that some of you can understand what I am going thru. I want to maintain an honest relationship with my wife. I have other threads as I am sure you are aware. One titled something about the thrill being gone and another about would you crossdress everyday if everyone knew. Those are questions I ask myself and do not know the answer to. If I wake up and can choose what to wear what would I choose today? If I can do that freely for days, weeks, months, or years, would I still want to wear ladies clothing? I don't know. I do know that I was analyzing the clothing to myself yesterday as I was driving to the casino. The slacks were very light and comfortable. Unlike any jeans or trousers I have ever worn before. The panties are truly more comfortable than male briefs. The shoes are comfortable and add to my shorter height and are easy and comfortable to walk in. So to recap the wardrobe and speculate. What I was wearing from head to toe was very comfortable. If I can find very comfortable clothing that looks appealing I would wear it.

[mona lisa]

With six day stubble, what did you expect?

[phylis anne]

Billy don't let the nay sayers get too you , I find the responses in general here are a bit counter productive ,meaning a forum is usually used to help encourage others especially the new members ,you seem very comforable with the style in which you present and that is more important than if you are considered femminine enough in others eyes here I could not pass even if I shoveled the makeup on so I am happy being a tomboy /girl as it were , to the rest of the posters who are in teardown mode perhaps you might reflect on your early days ,afterall you you were new once too

[Abbey11]

Nicely put Phylis

[Jenni Yumiko]

You would think that all levels of the gender scale would be accepted here. Some of you clamor for "acceptance" but are mean to someone who isn't as far "left or right" on the scale as you? Complain about how person a,b or c doesn't accept you for who you are, but not accepting who someone else may be who isn't "normal" is just as bad if not worse then all the other ones out there.
Your thought to written word may not be what people are seeing or understanding, Billy, but I for one applaud your journey on discovering who you are, whomever that may be.

[Lucy23]

I too got the impression that the only way to find a place would be that I go "fully femme". As if the way it is now - just a man in a dress - is just a phase and at some point in the future I'll come around. There are many faces of crossdressing as there are members here. So why the act as if the only and proper way to go about crossdressing is to totally present as a woman. That is too strict a demand in my opinion.

I for one thought that originally Billy was happy about being called "sir" and he shared the story just because of that. In fact, I must say that I admire Billy for having the courage and "balls" for being so honest with himself and venture out dressed like that and face the world head on. I know I couldn't do that, at least now. It seems that Billy just wants to find himself, is honest about it and asks questions to help him. I haven't seen him writing about any inappropriate actions when out in the world. So please, could we just simply trying to understand first and then voice our opinions even if we disagree with one another?

[Billy]

Thank all of you for your support.
Lucy, I think you would find it acceptable and much less work. You will simply be yourself in different attire.

[Louise DK]

I dont think it hurts the comunity that some crossdressers go out, clearly presenting as a man in a dress. Im from Denmark in northern europe, and in Viborg, a city 30 miles from where I live, there lives a man they call Kjole Ole. Now kjole is the danish word for a dress, and Ole is his name. He dresses only in womans clothes, and have done so for decades. He is widely accepted in Viborg. In fact once many years ago he was thrown out of a local B&O boutique, because he walked in to their shop, looking for a new TV set, wearing a dress. It caused so much harm with the local pupulation, that the CEO of B&O had to make a public appollogy to Ole.
So I dont think what Billy does is any worse or any better than going out fully made up, wich is what most here do. I think as long as you dont dress like a two dollar hooker, and confirm the image of a transvestite, the muggles have in their heads, you Are only doing the comunity good, by being out there and being seen.

[immindy]

After reading all the interesting responses here I guess I have to comment :) I do not think Billy is a troll and I believe he was actually wanting to be called Sir , that was his whole point . But what else would people call him other then maybe some derogatory slur ? People here seem to have different reasons for wanting to wear woman's clothing and many , including Billy , may not be sure why . This forum is a safe place to explore ones feelings about such things , is it not ?
When I first discovered this forum ( in 2007 ) I was not completely sure about myself but have come to realize that I am a trans woman who wears woman's clothes because it helps me express who I am and feel better about myself . Personally it is hard for me to relate to someone who considers themselves a "man" who just likes to wear woman's clothes , for the feel, or whatever ? I do also have a hard time understanding why someone would want to present as a man in woman's clothing in public.
I also feel that someone who chooses to wear woman's clothes , as a man in public, does not help those of us who are trans woman and just trying to be accepted as a woman in public. Society tends to see such a person as strange and maybe a bit creepy ? I do think when one makes an effort to "blend " and present as a woman it helps our acceptance . This is my opinion, however, and I do wish Billy the best as he explores and learns about himself .

[Billy]

Is it hard to understand why a man would like to wear women's clothing in private?

[Lucy23]

Personally it is hard for me to relate to someone who considers themselves a "man" who just likes to wear woman's clothes, for the feel, or whatever? I do also have a hard time understanding why someone would want to present as a man in woman's clothing in public.
I'll offer my opinion on this part. Currently I'm reading a book on women's fashion, particularly on developing one's style. There is a chapter devoted to "stealing" from other's wardrobe, especially from men in their lives. Why would a woman do that? Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but from the book I got the impression because she wants to express herself, or some part of herself.

So why would I want to present as a man in woman's clothing? Well, the further I've been thinking about it, I guess it's because I too want to express something inside me and women's clothing does it best. For some reason there are times I want to look cute and wearing a flared skirt with ballet flats does it best for me. You could put it that it makes me feel in certain way. All the while I want to remain a man who is comfortable with being a man. Just as woman would don her man's blazer to achieve a certain look she desires.

[immindy]

Lucy , maybe you do have a feminine aspect you need to express but not to the point where you consider yourself a trans woman as I do ? I suspect many here , who consider themselves male cross dressers feel as you do ?

[Taylor186]

We had a thread recently where the question was (I'm paraphrasing here) when crossdressed do you feel like a man or a woman. Many, many of us, including me, responded in that thread, yes I still feel like a man when crossdressed. So Billy's journey resonates much more with me than that of a trans woman. After all a trans woman wearing women's clothing is not crossdressing at all.

During the first forty years of my crossdressing journey I never attempted to blend or pass. I just wore the things that made me happy. Being closeted most of that time helped, of course. When I first started going out go out I felt the need to make a complete presentation and the tri-ess like organization I joined required it (no "half and halfs" allowed). But Billy's threads have made me now wonder why I still feel that need.

I do nibble around the edges, as someone put it in another earlier thread, by wearing leggings and tights to yoga and the health club while in 100% guy mode. And, I'm sure I'd be sir'ed at these places, and would want and expect it, even though I am wearing women's clothes from the waist down.

You have to look no further than much loved comedian, actor and crossdresser Eddie Izzard to know that with style and confidence, you do not have to make a complete blending/passing transformation to be yourself when out in public.

[Lucy23]

Lucy , maybe you do have a feminine aspect you need to express but not to the point where you consider yourself a trans woman as I do ? I suspect many here , who consider themselves male cross dressers feel as you do ?
You could put it that way. There's this moment that comes to my mind, not related to crossdressing, at least directly. After seeing my new flat, two female friends told me independently that the place looks like as if a woman had decorated it. I guess I have a rather heightened sense of aesthetics for a man when it comes to small details, fashion etc. Compared to my male friends, I really put a lot of effort into how things look.

Obviously, I really can't speak for others; that's up to them to answer. However, I too would like to know their own take on the matter.

[Becky Blue]

Is it hard to understand why a man would like to wear women's clothing in private?

Billy, i think you just hit the nail on the head with that quote. There are many people in our world who do not see themselves as men who like to put on a dress. Whilst I do not see myself as a woman trapped in a man's body I am most definitely not a man who wants to put on a dress either.

I will dress in private when I can as it makes me feel so good on so many levels. I do not feel like a 'normal' male, at times I have almost overwhelming urges to dress and be as much of a woman as I can. When you realise that the 'T Community' is a spectrum and its not black and white the sooner you may start finding yourself.

Your question above is based on your current feelings that you are a man who wants to dress in some woman's clothes so you can go out. Given you clearly keep many signs of your 'malehood' when you go out one could ask you "It is hard to understand why a man would dress in woman's clothes and go out with a 5 day beard shadow?"

[Billy]

I have no problem with a man liking to wear women's clothing in private thus I have no problem with a man liking to wear women's clothing in public. I have worn intimate women's apparel on and off since being a youngster and never had a desire to emulate or feel like a woman. In this huge diverse world I am confident that I am not the only person like that. I know others on this forum that have stated that they feel the same in fact in post 60 Taylor speaks for himself. I believe that I do understand it is not black and white.

[Becky Blue]

So then why did you ask the question?

[Billy]

Because if you can understand why a man would want to wear panties or underdress or wear women's clothing in private, you should be able to understand that they would want to wear it in public for the same reason.

[Becky Blue]

Billy with all due respect, look where you are posting its Crossdressers.com all of us here are either CD/TS/TG/Other or are connected to someone who is a CD/TS/TG/Other. Are you trying to convince yourself?

[Billy]

Not at all. There is an awful lot of pushback and criticism in regards to going out in public wearing women's clothing without a female makeover.

[Tracii G]

Its a little more complex than that Billy.
All of it depends on what drives that male person to dress in female clothes.
What drives you may not be what drives someone else.
I'm a female in a male body so for me wearing womens clothing makes me feel normal and matches my head with my body so to speak.
For you I have no idea what drives your desire to wear womens clothes.
You are a crossdresser and I am TG so that is one difference.

[Becky Blue]

You did not say that in your question! you simply said going out and I would point out there is a slight difference between not being fully made up and having a 5 or 6 day beard growth. Lots of women go out with no makeup etc. No women ever go out with a weeks growth of beard.

I would guess that the reason you were called Sir twice was specific and was a sign of disapproval.

[KimberlyJean]

I will most undoubtedly regret this post.

Just so this is on topic, for me being called sir while out would be an insult because I want to blend in and be female.

Now Billy, what I have seen since you started posting on this forum, not just this tread but in every one you start they become contentious. This is just me observing the forum and not judging. If you want to be a bearded man in a dress more power to you, however do not push your agenda onto me. There are several posts in this thread inferring that you are the one who is being picked on, but I have gotten the impression from all of your posts that you do not accept those of us who are transgender or are different than you. I even contemplated not coming to the forum any more because of the arguing that you have inspired.

What I am getting at is we accept everyone, but you need to accept that we are not all just men in dresses. I truly have gender dsyphoria but it is not severe enough for me to pursue a transition. I cannot just do what ever I like because life has taken me on a path where I have commitments. Like Lorileih said multiple times it is not black and white.

Just my two cents because I don't like the fighting in my happy place.

[Tracii G]

Well said KJ
Me personally I'm getting tired of tying to explain things.
No matter what anyone says he tries to twist it around and make the other poster the bad person.
You try to help and he doesn't listen and is not willing to either.
Just my take.

[Billy]

KimberlyJean,
I am so sorry that you feel that way. If you knew me personally you would not feel that way. I have no issue with what anyone does. I only know what I am doing and all my posts are in regards to issues that I am coming to terms with. I would treat you with the utmost courtesy if I was in your presence and do not think I have disrespected any person on this forum. If you or anyone else thinks that have, I am truly sorry.

[suzanne]

Thanks for the story, Billy. I call the reaction you received "Not a big deal" and it's the direction I hope society in general is going. Because it's clothes, and you were appropriately dressed for the situation. How could it be a problem?

[AllieSF]

Kimberly, I do not think that Billy is trying to question if those of us who go out dressed completely with all accessories, wig, clean shaven, etc. should or not. I think that she is trying to make the point that she sees nothing wrong with what she does. I see that it becomes contentious when others who agree that Billy has the right to do what she wants state their opinion that Billy should not go out in the public as she does (dress like you want but keep it home). Some may not like how she may word some of her posts. I have seen her be very mature in her posts and reacting that same way to the many disparaging posts of others.

She has been very prolific in the short time she has been here. I have seen that with many new members here over the years as they finally found an outlet for this side of themselves. They arrive here and want to discuss everything. Some write well and some do not. I agree with you that we should all accept everyone, and agree that Billy is part of that "we". I have defended Billy in several posts in this and other threads just because I do not see that acceptance from some of our members here. We do not have to like her presentation style (I would not present like that), but for us to say that she should not go out while we who present completely en femme can is not acceptance nor acceptable on a support site like this.

I do not think that we are fighting at all. We are in a discussion about Billy's presentation style when out. This site has all kinds of threads from the silly, to simple, to more complicated ones. This is a more complicated one and will bring up differing and stronger opinions. When kept civil we have the opportunity to hear both sides of discussion. That can help all of us to better understand our own point of view and hopefully help us modify or change it over time to the more correct one. Stay around Kimberly, take a break when necessary, or avoid these deeper discussions when it gets too deep. Your opinions matter too.

[Leslie Mary S]

Billy I would suggest that you not try it in a southern small town unless you are looking for a lot of trouble. The first time yo MIGHT get away with it, but your luck will quickly run out.
I talk from experience.

[Billy]

Thanks for the advice! I guess I am lucky I live up north:)

[mykell]

for me i think that the title may have been worded better, i dusted off this old dity for folks to peruse, searching for topics can be a bit difficult, this was my thread and i had to dig a bit for it as the most current dates fill in first even though my search "bearded dude in a dress" was pretty specific, i felt the need to share for just a little different perspective.......enjoy....

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?219971-bearded-dude-in-a-dress-not-a-crossdresser-dang-rant/page2&highlight=beard

[MelanieAnne]

Is it hard to understand why a man would like to wear women's clothing in private?

Not at all. Lots of us do it. But going out in womens clothes, with no makeup, or wig, and a six days stuble is a bit of a stretch.

[Wallaone]

Good for you Billy! There have been a few times I felt just like wearing the clothes and didn't bother with makeup or a wig. I generally have positive experiences in those situations. I dated someone in the Mystic waterfront and would sometimes walk from my car to their place or briefly around halfway dressed. Personally, I don't like to do that often, mostly because I don't think society readily accepts that.

Paula

[Anne K]

I agree with Tracii on this subject. I'm all for pushing the envelope, but one must be very careful. In a non-CD circumstance, I have met Bubba and can tell you that it is not pleasant and VERY scary. While you are engrossed in your agenda, be vigilant about your surrounding.

As I understand the subject of "passing", it is to blend in and not attract undo attention. Perhaps, what you are doing will make it easier for others. Just remember the Japanese adage, "The nail that sticks up will get hammered down.". Be careful!

[phili]

I'll chime in here as another bearded guy in a dress, which fact arouses a lot of strong feelings amongst those on the board.

I'm fine being called Sir, and I don't like being called Ma'am, which happened only once in SF when someone was trying to be accommodating and guessing that was what I would prefer.

Each of us, from Billy though Zooey, have a POV based on our own understanding of ourselves and our motivation to crossdress. Most of us might admit we also earnestly seek the comfort of others.

Any post is one person's statement of their belief or random thought, which then becomes the subject of more conversation. That necessarily means that those replying will react from their POV, and then the OP tries to further explain or correct what they see as misperception, which then sounds like or actually becomes a testy [pun'] contest [another pun!!!] and the tension rises if we are not careful to remember we all are just blabbering away from our POV and trying to find common ground, share, etc.

The whole thing works as long as we don't get sharp with each other and impugn motives. I was stunned by how many people asserted that it is just beyond imagination for a man to want to be a man in a dress in my post a week or so ago. Here we are again- I'm hoping that this time we can just make room in cross-dresser's heaven for us men who like to wear dresses. For me, yes it is the feel, yes. it is to want to be able to switch into a feminine role and be accepted and admired. No- I don't like makeup or fake anything, so I have to make the best of my body, which means I want everyone else to stretch a bit. Yes, I know many or even most are not going to. Yes, I think doing a comedy show might be my best venue. Yes- I generally find that rednecks don't object since I am clearly not a trap, and the frankness with which I dress is disarming. Those that secretly fantasize about wearing dresses show tiny signs of relief that it just might be possible.

In other words, Yes it is whatever- for each of us- and our site here is for all of us to be able to say what it is for us without requiring anyone else to conform.

[Giselle(Oshawa)]

i once got called sir by a male cashier at the Sephora outlet in the Eaton's Centre in Toronto i was dressed and made up quite well i thought.
i was so appalled i was speechless, although i am not totally passable i put up a good effort and will now bye my makeup elsewhere

[Nigella]

As the OP has altered the opening post, this whole thread is now irrelevant, closed