Need help with internal conflict

[kittypw GG]

I want to accept my husband for who he is but I am having some internal conflict that is interfering with totally achieving that. I discovered the other day that when I get disgusted with the crossdressing usually there are feelings of anger behind it resulting from certain feminist feelings that I have.

First of all men still have the run of the planet and women struggle around the world for respect and even the right to own properity or wear what she wants in public. Men in general are used to haveing things their way and I guess that for me it just seems that the CD doesn't understand the struggles of women. I think that crossdressers in general are just men who are taking the best things about being a women and turning it into some sexual thing or some way to escape from the pressures that are presented to men. In other words, I really don't feel that CD'S have earned the right to or payed enough dues to wear a women's shoes. (this is not the way I feel everyday just some days it is behind my frustration with crossdressing)

I don't want to offend anyone but sometimes I feel that men are so greedy. Isn't it enough that things come easy to men. Do they really need to take over my female teritory. This teritory has come to me with a lot of pain and work and it is who I am genetically and physically. I have said before I don't mind sharing but can wearing female clothes really give you the expirence of being a real women? How do I tame these feelings? Will I ever be able to get past this? It is not something that I dwell on daily but when I have to deal with certain situations regarding my husband or when I read certaing posts I get this feeling inside of me.

The other thing that really gets me is that my husband has the current typical female body of the fashion models. Tall, long skinny legs, no breasts and most of the female clothes are made for that body type. The fashion indrustry is run mostly by gay males. (do you think this could be a conspiracy?) I get such a twinge of jealousy that he looks hotter in most of the fashions than I do. He also has no trouble wearing any outfit, whereas I have to try on many things before I find something that looks great on me because of my curves. It broke my heart that I could not wear go go boots in the 70's because my calves were too muscular due to my obsession with tennis at the time.

Do you think that this could be behind non acceptance for a lot of spouses of CD's? If this could be the case then could it be possible for the CD's to understand and not steal too much of the limelight from the genetic women in their lives? I would like to know what everyones views are and please be kind. Kitty

[Yes I am]

A lot of us don't have enough appreciation for the real struggles real women have to go through, but from reading your post it is clear that you have no understanding of the real struggles real men have to go through. There are positives and negatives to being either sex, neither one gets everything "so easy." I would suggest that you have an adult conversation with your husband about this, and maybe listen to him tell you some of the garbage guys have dumped on them their whole lives too.

[gennee]

First Of All, Men And Women Are Greedy And I Have Met Plenty Of Both. Your Husband Is Expressing His True Self And Is Willing To Share It To The World. From The Tone Of Your Post, I Gather That He Is Comfortable With His Feminine Side. There Are Many Cd's That Feel This Way. In My Walk Through Life, I Have Met Women Who Are Not Comfortable With Their Femininity, And That's A Shame.

First Of All, I Applaud Your Husband For Being His True Self. Try To Understand Why He Crossdresses. Visit This Forum, Attend A Support Meeting For Cd's And Their Wives, Talk With Other Spouses. Give Him Your Love And Support. Find Out What Makes You Angry And Seek Some Guidance.

Yes, Women Have Not Always Had It Easy And I Understand That. Women Have Also Contributed Greatly To The Betterment Of The World. There's Plenty Of History To Back That Up.

Gennee

[Claire]

Quite frankly, I find when I am en femme I tend to think more like a woman. With your feminist feelings, it might be more enjoyable for you to have him as her. You might have more in common. I would suggest that instead of being jealous and fighting it that you enjoy his feminine companionship. Help him learn to dress and put on make up. Help him to be able to be more of a companion. You might really enjoy having a female around!

[Jodie_Lynn]

Or, try making a bet with him:

If he can go a week, totally en femme, doing everything a woman does (within biological limits, of course) for a week, then he has "earned the right to walk in your shoes".
:D

Now for some, this is already happening, but for those women whose husbands obsession is sometimes anger causing, it might give you more common ground for acceptance.

If he comes home from grocery shopping, lugging three bags of groceries, then has to prepare dinner, do a load of laundry, and clean up the house (to your standards), then perhaps he will have a better feel for what it is to be a woman.

Just a thought.

[GypsyKaren]

First of all, nothing has ever come easy for me, I've worked my bloody tail off to get where I'm at. I worked 72 hour work weeks for 8 years while putting my daughter through veterinarian school, so I didn't have time to enjoy the run of the planet.

Kitty, I paid my dues in ways you really don't want to hear about, trust me on this, you'll sleep much better not knowing. Let's just say that I'm paid in full several times over, and leave it at that.

I grant you that most men don't understand or care about the problems women face. All I can tell you is that I sure don't feel that way, and I don't see to much of that here from anyone. Anyway, try to watch out for blanket statements, they tend to cover your eyes.

Karen

[Bev06 GG]

Quite frankly, I find when I am en femme I tend to think more like a woman.

I dont wish to sound disagreeable in any way shape or form but it always amazes me when a TGirl says this. How the heck does anyone other than another woman know how we think. RGs are far too complex to understand and how can a man think like a woman just because he dresses like one.
Hope you get my drift.
BEVxxxx

[Sarahgurl371]

Kitty, I am sorry you are having a tough time lately. I am starting to feel like no one on this planet really knows what it is like to be someone else. We always see the greener grass on the other side, but seldom the burnt out grass that most of us have to deal with everyday. I guess its true that we shouldn't judge others until we have walked a mile in thier shoes.

Speaking for myself, I guess that men still do have the run of the planet. Personally I view women as equal to or even greater than men. But you are right. Society does have a bias towards males. That said, There are tremendous pressures applied to us in return. We are supposed to be the strong one, the bread winner, the one who protects at all costs, family, home, and country. The one that MUST handle the problems that arise everyday. The ones who MUST take care of everyone elses basic needs (food, shelter, safety etc.) "It" is on our shoulders alone. There is no one to run to when things go wrong.

I know that there are alot of strong independent women out there who break the "mold". But for the most part this is the male role. Often times, there is no ME time. I would gladly trade places with my wife. I guess that just speaks to how I treat the females in my life. I was taught the male must do everything and hold the woman up above all the muck so she won't have to deal with the crappy part of life. Kinda like - why do you want to be equal to men - why would you lower yourself to our level?

As far as greedy, I guess we are all greedy at some point. Men and women alike. I know many guys who do whatever they want when they want. I hear many stories from men about thier wives and how they rule the roost. I do not act that way. I am the last one who's needs are met. Funny thing is that my wife wants me to be the MAN. Well I don't think she would like the shift in my personality in being the MAN. Our marraige has always been about what she wants and needs. Being the MAN would entail me taking care of myself first and foremeost (standing up for me) and caring alot less for her feelings.

I mainly think that we all PREJUDGE others. All the time. I am no better than anyone else. I do it to. But really, how much do we know about anyone else's struggles and problems in life. How much do we understand what others are going thru inside? Nope, we only see what we want to see. The rest must be all made up.

I hope you find some resolution to your problems. I hope we all do.

[Amelie]

My opinion, I feel that your post is told in a bigoted way. If a man wasor a CD here at the forum would express these views toward a woman the thread would be locked down fast.

Men pay dues just like women do, men don't get things thrown at them on a silver platter. You can not make these generalizations about men. You have not lived your life like all men so you don't know what problems or difficulties that men have.

I can not speak for the nutty countries around the world but here in the western world women have the same and if not more freedoms that men have. Women here in the US make up of half of the population, they can vote just the same as the men, they can vote for the best person for their interests.

Not all CDs dress for sexual reasons so you can't make this true to all CDs.

Next, being a women isn't a territory and it isn't something that you own and can keep others(men) away from. You say you don't mind sharing, you and no other female is letting me share anything that is female. It's not up to you or any female to say what I can dress like, you are not sharing anything with me. My dressing belongs to me and me alone, you do not have any say in sharing it with me.


It will be curious what happens to this thread. Like I said before if a man(CD) was to have these opinions about females the thread would be locked, that is after the Cds flamed him.

[Jodie_Lynn]

I agree with you GypsyKaren.

I cannot speak for all men, but I respect and admire women, and see no reason why they shouldn't recieve equal pay for equal work. I also see no reason why a woman shouldn't be able to walk down the street, dressed in a mini and halter and get harassed by neanderthals with external genitalia either.

I have worked every day since the age of 18, and have struggled and sacrificed to provide my wife and daughter with a home, food, clothes, and an education.

I think that you are looking for a reason to be angry with your husbands crossdressing, that ISN'T the crossdressing itself. Perhaps, you wish to seem understanding of him and his desires, and so do not want to blame the desires themselves, but are looking for a 'scapegoat' reason to dislike it.

Not
"I hate when he crossdresses!"

But

"I hate his crossdressing because it infringes on my rights as a woman!"

The final result being that you are still uncomfortable with the crossdressing, but you have a legitimate reason for doing so.

We, as crossdressers, transgendered, transsexual, what have you, desperately seek approval from our loved ones. Our loved ones don't want to disavow us, and face their own conflicts regarding the situation. We have to learn that tolerance may be the best we can hope for, and that in our need to be accepted, we do not force others to make a painful choice, or impose our worldview upon them.

I hope that makes sense and conveys what I am trying to say.

[Melanie R]

[QUOTE=kittypw GG]I want to accept my husband for who he is but I am having some internal conflict that is interfering with totally achieving that. I discovered the other day that when I get disgusted with the crossdressing usually there are feelings of anger behind it resulting from certain feminist feelings that I have.

I understand some of your frustrations you have expressed. Many crossdressers want the best of both worlds. No problems with that. I enjoy at times being a person with male plumbing who has the emotions of a woman. Crossdressers can be very selfish with minimum consideration for what a wife needs. I have been there and done that as have many of us.

What do you want from your husband? What are your needs that you feel are not being met? You have to answer these questions and give those answers to your husband.

Hugs,

Melanie

[Shelly Preston]

Hi Kitty

I think you maybe right in the vast majority of cases

Everyone has seen the job someone else is doing ( say chat show host ) and thinks !! thats easy I would love to do that, The question is how many actually could.

It is similar with your husband and most CD's we can dress like women but how many of us could actually live as women. I suspect very few could do this. We have to make the best of our situation which usually means picking out the best bits. I myself have been known to do things which you would expect from any partner when dividing chores. Sometimes my feet hurt just like my wifes. will getting him to help you when dressed be the answer ? I dont know but it may help to let him know how you feel.

As for paying dues I understand what you say. However I think you will find most crossdressers having to keep the fact they dress secret is a burden which can last a lifetime.

Living with a crossdresser is not easy

I hope as a couple you can resolve this issue.

[Sophia Rearen]

Kitty, you can't blame your anger on your husband. That's not fair. I don't think he is centuries or thousands of years old. Nor, do I believe that he has travelled every corner of the world. So, to be unaccepting and angry of him for womens strife is unfair.
While it may be true, that you have struggled as a woman, it may be true as well, that he had to suppress his womanly feelings. If he goes out enfemme, then I'm sure he is aware of struggles. Probably, more than most people would care to know.
Women are the most beautiful creatures on the planet. Is it so wrong to try to emulate beauty? Isn't this the highest form of compliment?

[Julie Avery]

All I want to say, pondering this thread, is that it may explain the anger (as opposed to just the culturally conservative "that's too kinky for me" disdain) some GG's experience when their spouse/s.o. "comes out" to them as a CD.

I see that the anger is related to a sense of grievance based on genetic gender.

I think feminism is by and large a good thing, but to the extent that it's cultivated a chip on the shoulder of upper middle class women in the USA I think it probably has its limits. Who remembers, now, that in the anthracite coal towns of eastern Pennsylvania, it was customary for the genetic male to hand his paycheck over to the genetic female, who decided how it would be spent? Just a little tidbit from labor history.

[Sophia Rearen]

I dont wish to sound disagreeable in any way shape or form but it always amazes me when a TGirl says this. How the heck does anyone other than another woman know how we think. RGs are far too complex to understand and how can a man think like a woman just because he dresses like one.
Hope you get my drift.
BEVxxxx


I don't know about this Bev. The brain can be looked at separately, male and female, intellectual and emotional. One could be born with a more female thinking brain. Just because you have the DNA and genitalia of female doesn't necessarily give you the property rights to female feelings and thought. Sometimes, it's not about the clothes. If a pre-op TS takes her dress off and sleeps naked, does he cease to think like a woman, and now, thinks like a man?

[AprilMae]

If he comes home from grocery shopping, lugging three bags of groceries, then has to prepare dinner, do a load of laundry, and clean up the house
What makes you think this is "Women's Work" solely. I've always done the grocery shopping and the cooking. We each do our own laundry, and we share the housecleanng. I do the kitchen, she does the bathroom.

[Marla S]

Do you think that this could be behind non acceptance for a lot of spouses of CD's? If this could be the case then could it be possible for the CD's to understand and not steal too much of the limelight from the genetic women in their lives?
Don't see it as stealing, see it as participating, and try to share your knowledge and experiences. Who knows better what it means to be a woman then a GG.
As a CD I think behind the non acceptance stands a lack of understanding (how should a GG understand it if even the CDs don't really know), a loss of masculinity, the general non-acceptance by the society (with all its consequences), and often CDing simply doesn't look as nice as the CD feels it.

As for the twinge of jealousy, same here as I read it ;).

PS: Just thought, how accepting a men would be having a F2M CD as spouse ?

[kittypw GG]

I really struggeld over putting this out to the group at large or to the GG's. But I am glad for my choice. You are all a bunch of caring individuals and I knew that you would help me. Some are angry but I did not intend to make you that way. I risked exposing feelings that I am sure that a lot of women have but keep inside of themselves. I want to reconscile this in my self. This is why I have reached out.

I have never in my life claimed to understand what a male struggles with or the pressures he faces in the world. I raised a male child for the most part by myself and used the advice of many male friends on topics I know nothing about. I also tried to raise my son to love himself for who he was. I tried very hard not to put too much weight on "boy things or boy activities" I wanted to raise him to respect the softer side of himself and not be afraid to express emotions. He is 25 and has since thanked me for his feminist side.

I am trying hard to give my husband love and support. I agree with Melanie that there is some things lacking in our relationship that have nothing to do with CD'ing. We are trying to clear these things up. I am not looking for a reason to be angy with my husband. Sometimes I do want to blame the hurt I feel on something and crossdressing is the most likely candidate.

I want to say that I respect those of you who are true to yourselves and have gained acceptance and confidence to be who you are. I just wanted to reach out to get some ideas so that I could grow. I do however value your opinions and comments. Please keep them comming. Discussion and debate is what changes minds and opinions. Thanks Kitty

[Jodie_Lynn]

What makes you think this is "Women's Work" solely. I've always done the grocery shopping and the cooking. We each do our own laundry, and we share the housecleanng. I do the kitchen, she does the bathroom.


nit picking! In many households, the work is divided between "his" jobs, and "her" jobs. In my household, it depends on who is available to do the work. Currently, I'm playing housewife and handling the daily house chores since I'm temporarily out of work and the wife is working full time and going to school on weekends.

Other times, she is doing the 'inside' work while I'm working on the yard and the other "manly" chores.

I in no way was attempting to classify jobs by gender. :D.

[PTPJen]

Kitty,



I understand your anger and concerns. They are valid "Yes fellow CD sisters Valid". Men do not have the concept of what women go through and until they sped alot of time in the role they never will.

However with that being said, Yoou and your CD SO need to sit down and put out the rules, IE,Do you want him to dress at home, what will he do to show you that 1-he is serious and 2- is he willing to work his cute little butt off to earn your respect and pay his dues.

For years, I thought all that was being a CD was dressing up and forgetting everthing else, now I know that hey I have to help out with the house work, hey I have to do the suffering women do on issues and not just think its going to be given to me.

Luckly your husband has the model figue and stuff, hey start him on some low does hormones and he will paid that dues and understand that you don't just get a figue as a women you work at keeping it.

I understand your anger and you need to vent it out and You need to set the Rules for HIM TO LIVE IN YOUE WORLD!!!! Pixie

[Rikkicn]

Your post is very interestng and thought provoking. I showed it to my wife who teaches a course in gender and sexuality at the college level and we discussed it and the replies.
We agree that men and women aren't equal in our culture. If a man and woman have the same job the man will get paid more for it. There are many studies that support this. A woman earns $.79 for every $1.00 a man earns doing the same job.
Women face harrassment at a far greater level then men. Women suffer from spouse abuse far more than men. Women are raped in outrages numbers every day in this country.
Women are defintetly an oppressed minority in the country. So too, are transgendered people. Cross dressers, TG and TS people are oppressed equal to or more as women in our culture. I would hope that the more we go out into the world we can begin to understand how women are treated and find a place in our heart of empathy.
If all oppressed people worked together the world would be a better place, more open and more free.
I encourage you to look at in that light.
There is alot of discussion in the trans community around tg's taking over womens territory. The Michigans Women's Music Festivile excudes trans people of all kinds. The Dyke March in San Francisco weclomes all women past, present and future. This discussion is still going on. I feel the exclusion is not good for any of us.
When we first got together my wife asked me if I feel like a woman inside. I told her I have no idea what a women feels like nor do I know what a man feels like. I know what feminine and masuline are but those are different to me. I think most of us want to feel like ourselves what ever labels that is.
I think it would be wonderful if TG people would spend a little time studying feminist theory. Most of us are under informed about such an important issue.
All this being said I do feel that these issues are standing in the way of your finding the road to loving acceptance of your husband. You can still be a feminist and love a cross dresser..my wife does.
Best of luck to you and I wish our reponses were a little kinder to you. It took courage to say what you said. Thanks for taking a part in our forum and a continued understadning of who we are.
Rikki

[Deborah]

First of all men still have the run of the planet and women struggle around the world for respect and even the right to own properity or wear what she wants in public. You can run the planet if you want to. I'm all for equality Women get to wear male and female clothes and get away with it. It's all fashion. I wear a dress in public and i'm a fag.
Men in general are used to haveing things their way and I guess that for me it just seems that the CD doesn't understand the struggles of women. Same statement above applies. As a man i have yet to have anything my own way i must be missing out.
I think that crossdressers in general are just men who are taking the best things about being a women and turning it into some sexual thing or some way to escape from the pressures that are presented to men. In other words, I really don't feel that CD'S have earned the right to or payed enough dues to wear a women's shoes. (this is not the way I feel everyday just some days it is behind my frustration with crossdressing) Not all of us dress for sexual reasons. I resent that. You don't like the fact that men wear womens shoes, but slacks and jeans etc are ok? They even have female panties that look like Male Y fronts give me a break.
I don't want to offend anyone but sometimes I feel that men are so greedy. Isn't it enough that things come easy to men. Do they really need to take over my female teritory. This teritory has come to me with a lot of pain and work and it is who I am genetically and physically. I have said before I don't mind sharing but can wearing female clothes really give you the expirence of being a real women? Greedy? LOL I'm still trying to figure out from above how females get away with wearing everything and we can't
How do I tame these feelings? Will I ever be able to get past this? It is not something that I dwell on daily but when I have to deal with certain situations regarding my husband or when I read certaing posts I get this feeling inside of me. I don't know i'm not a psychologist
The other thing that really gets me is that my husband has the current typical female body of the fashion models. Tall, long skinny legs, no breasts and most of the female clothes are made for that body type. Lucky guy
I get such a twinge of jealousy that he looks hotter in most of the fashions than I do. He also has no trouble wearing any outfit, My ex-wife says the same thing. :D
whereas I have to try on many things before I find something that looks great on me because of my curves. It broke my heart that I could not wear go go boots in the 70's because my calves were too muscular due to my obsession with tennis at the time. Athletic girl...cool. :D Don't be ashamed of who you are. Besides anything in the 70's doesn't look to attractive now days anyway. ;)
Do you think that this could be behind non acceptance for a lot of spouses of CD's? If this could be the case then could it be possible for the CD's to understand and not steal too much of the limelight from the genetic women in their lives? I would like to know what everyones views are and please be kind. Kitty I'm personally not trying to steal anything. I don't see to many CD's walking around in female fashions either. Most of us are in the closet. ;) I'm not trying to be a bitch by the way. Those are just my personal feelings. Deb

[Julie York]

Poor kitty. No-one really addressed your problem did they?

Your husband is "playing pretend". CDs do that. It is what we do. When you were a little girl and were a princess one afternoon you never had to open a hospital wing or watch some deranged native dance for 2 hours did you?

So imagine a real Princess coming up to a five year old and going OMG take that off! If only you KNEW what a princess went through!!! It's disgusting!!

That's what you are doing and that is what you are misunderstanding.

The fact that he is thinner than you...well life's a bitch.

I hate losing arm wrestling contests to women so there.

(and I do!)

:eek:

[Annaliese]

Kitty my wife feels the same, she gets angry with me, some of the times when I dress and she has said much the same thing to me. I played the game an actted like a male pig to hide my fem side most of my life. As I have got older and become more comfortable with my fem side the better we have got along. She now tell me how luckly she is to have such a sweet and understanding husband. I do my share of the house work, I clean the house and do the dishes and most of the cooking (90%) plus all the out side work.

My son, who is now 30, has call me a pussy on more than one occasion because I do these thing, he has no respect for me because I let my fem side show now and I don't try to hyde it. (does not know I dress)

I ware a bra and panties all the time because this is who I am. I don't pretend to understand my wife but I love her with no strings. All I ask is the same from her and I am sure you husband is the same.

In the world we live in, a man who is fem has it hard and is caught in the middle of male and the female side. You have a right to your feeling but give him some slack.

Love him for who he is.

[BrendaB GG]

I don't know about this Bev. The brain can be looked at separately, male and female, intellectual and emotional. One could be born with a more female thinking brain. Just because you have the DNA and genitalia of female doesn't necessarily give you the property rights to female feelings and thought. Sometimes, it's not about the clothes. If a pre-op TS takes her dress off and sleeps naked, does he cease to think like a woman, and now, thinks like a man?

You make a very good point here Sophia. My husband is TS and he wakes up in the morning, walks in his sleepy state to the shower, looks down and is startled to see a penis there. I believe that his default mode is female and when he goes to work he has to pretend to be male. I am always amazed at how natural and happy he is when dressed compared to how withdrawn he is when in guy mode. He's got that female brain and I can't imagine what its like to wrestle with that on a daily basis for your entire life.
Brenda

[Sophia Rearen]

Kitty,
Thank you for your thoughts. I know your looking for help, it's in the thread's title. Somehow, you have managed to express most of the negativity that many SO's or wives of crossdressers feel in just 5 short paragraphs.

However, you have also uncovered many faults within you. First and foremost is you are hypocritical. To say your a feminist, because of women's struggles, and then prohibit your husband from the freedoms he desires, is hypocritical.

While, I feel sorry for you, and your feelings, and your current predicament, I do thank you for exposing such utter nonsense that many of us feel daily.

You have certainly fired me up and many, many of my sisters. Quite a chord, you have struck. And yes, my panties are in a bunch!

[jonilace]

I have to speack from a personal vantage point only, of course, I think we all are missing something here if we try to read into anyones thoughts on this subject. Crossdressers have as many ranges and reasons for dressing as there are people on this planet, by that I mean, a crossdresser is that person, no more no less.I have been trying to justify and rationalize my desire to dress as long as I can remember. I have "theories" about it, and they change almost as often as I change clothes. I don't really believe that we as crossdressers are trying to be a woman as much as we are trying to be happy in our own skin. The outlet and joy in dressing is quite unique on a daily basis, no two times have I felt exactly the same. I don't think I am trying to be a woman as much as I am to feel something differant that seems to be missing. I can tell you from working in tha health care prefession that any pshyciatric professional can only give you there theory, not a scientific fact. There is no absolute in this science. My suggestion would be to try and walk a mile in his shoes and see if its not fun, try dressing like a man while he is a woman and atttempt to relate, it might help.

[Julie Avery]

I apologize for such a huge quote, but I thought it was a beautiful post, and I have no comment to add.


I really struggeld over putting this out to the group at large or to the GG's. But I am glad for my choice. You are all a bunch of caring individuals and I knew that you would help me. Some are angry but I did not intend to make you that way. I risked exposing feelings that I am sure that a lot of women have but keep inside of themselves. I want to reconscile this in my self. This is why I have reached out.

I have never in my life claimed to understand what a male struggles with or the pressures he faces in the world. I raised a male child for the most part by myself and used the advice of many male friends on topics I know nothing about. I also tried to raise my son to love himself for who he was. I tried very hard not to put too much weight on "boy things or boy activities" I wanted to raise him to respect the softer side of himself and not be afraid to express emotions. He is 25 and has since thanked me for his feminist side.

I am trying hard to give my husband love and support. I agree with Melanie that there is some things lacking in our relationship that have nothing to do with CD'ing. We are trying to clear these things up. I am not looking for a reason to be angy with my husband. Sometimes I do want to blame the hurt I feel on something and crossdressing is the most likely candidate.

I want to say that I respect those of you who are true to yourselves and have gained acceptance and confidence to be who you are. I just wanted to reach out to get some ideas so that I could grow. I do however value your opinions and comments. Please keep them comming. Discussion and debate is what changes minds and opinions. Thanks Kitty

[kittypw GG]

[QUOTE=Jodie-Lynn]I agree with you GypsyKaren.


"I hate his crossdressing because it infringes on my rights as a woman!"

Your statement makes me ashamed because it has a little truth to it. I don't know if it is totally the reason. Men appear to me to get the better jobs over women, they are certainly promoted over women and when they have strong business practices it is good for business. When women act like that they are called a bitch. There are certain sterotypes applied to women that are accepted in men. Women are put down because they are perceived as more emotional and not given the respect for their opinions as much as they deserve. Then I see my husband with his ability to walk right into any dress with the legs that any women would kill for and I feel like I sort of walk in his shadow. I just want to say "wait a minute I'm the real women". I don't have the ability or the desire to be or look like a man. This is my world and you can share it but don't take it over. Leave a little something for me.
Maybe it is more about feeling left out and less desirable because a lot of the time the crossdressing is about him not me. Maybe I am too caught up in sociatal guidlines for the sexes. I am haveing one hell of a struggle with myself though. Kitty

[Deborah]

Maybe if more men weren't so machoistic, egotistical, sexist barbarians and were more like us more gentler, feminine, loving CD or TG people then maybe there would be a female president, females earning same wages as males and to the benefit of everyone we would all be able to go out shopping together. :D

[PTPJen]

Kitty,

You have a right to be angry, I Think back when I was a kid and a girl wanted to play on our basball team how upset we got and "How Dare She" how rude we were to her.

Men have a hard time releasing what a women has gone through, what it takes to get to where they have gotten and I and sure some of my CD Sister have to understand that he just walks right into it.

He has no understanding of a womens emotions, tolls and most likely will never have, but I guess the first thing you have to decide "Will you let him earn that right to do that, or forgo the relationship unless he changes".

He won't change, cause you can't, so you have to love him, you don't have to bow to his desires, if he wants your respect in this area he has to earn it, but you have to tell him how. Jenn

[Julie Avery]

[quote=Jodie-Lynn] Men appear to me to get the better jobs over women, they are certainly promoted over women and when they have strong business practices it is good for business.

My daughter is the vice president of an investment bank, and I beg to differ. I was born in 1954, and I've seen women getting a lot of preferential treatment in the workplace. Funny thing is, she agrees with me.

[christine55]

From a very young age I was never dominant or agressive. Had a very low opinion of myself. I have always had to work very hard just to get by, never to get rich. I know this is not true but my very early childhood feelings was that girls just had to look pretty and wear those wonderful clothes to get by.
I was not good at sports, always the last one picked. Often made fun of and bullied. Stuttered. I must admit that I greatly envied the pretty little girls.
Hugs, Christine

[Sophia Rearen]

Your statement makes me ashamed because it has a little truth to it. I don't know if it is totally the reason. Men appear to me to get the better jobs over women, they are certainly promoted over women and when they have strong business practices it is good for business. When women act like that they are called a bitch. There are certain sterotypes applied to women that are accepted in men. Women are put down because they are perceived as more emotional and not given the respect for their opinions as much as they deserve. Then I see my husband with his ability to walk right into any dress with the legs that any women would kill for and I feel like I sort of walk in his shadow. I just want to say "wait a minute I'm the real women". I don't have the ability or the desire to be or look like a man. This is my world and you can share it but don't take it over. Leave a little something for me.
Maybe it is more about feeling left out and less desirable because a lot of the time the crossdressing is about him not me. Maybe I am too caught up in sociatal guidlines for the sexes. I am haveing one hell of a struggle with myself though. Kitty


Kitty,
There you go again, generalizing. Maybe you need reinforcement again from Gypsy Karen, "I grant you that most men don't understand or care about the problems women face. All I can tell you is that I sure don't feel that way, and I don't see to much of that here from anyone. Anyway, try to watch out for blanket statements, they tend to cover your eyes."

[GypsyKaren]

Kitty, you really need to be truthful with yourself about what you're angry with, I sure don't think it's how your husband looks in a skirt. You seem to be ranting at pretty much everything here, with crossdressing coming in a distant last.

Why does Jodie Lynn's view on this cause you to be ashamed, I don't understand that at all? It's just an opposing idea and such, one that was rather well thought out, why does it upset you so much? I'm sorry if you think your husband looks better in a skirt than you do, could just maybe you're being a bit harsh on yourself?

Anyway, like I said, let us know what's really bothering you, and maybe someone can help you. I just don't think it's crossdressing, is all.

Karen

[PTPJen]

You start with "I want to accept my husband for who he is but I am having some internal conflict that is interfering with totally achieving that."

That to me means that you love him and you want to accept him, but your having problems.

Hell that's at least a great start... Most women are at the "Holy sh--"

[Jodie_Lynn]

[quote=kittypw GG]

My daughter is the vice president of an investment bank, and I beg to differ. I was born in 1954, and I've seen women getting a lot of preferential treatment in the workplace. Funny thing is, she agrees with me.


Julie, I didn't say that! Somehow, in your post, it is attributed to me when it should be kittypw GG.

[Jodie_Lynn]

Yes, I'm becoming a little confused as well.
Is the problem his crossdressing?
Your statement that he looks better than you in a skirt?
The role of women in society?
The plight of women in less enlightened countries?
Is it because his dressing takes away from your 'couple' time?
The disparity in pay between women and men?
Or his 'trespassing' in "your" territory?

I think and I'm not trying to be mean, that you might have some issues here, and some legitimate grievances, but I also think you are lumping everything on his shoulders.

Sometimes, I find it helpful to write down what is bothering me, either in list, or narrative format. It might help you to figure out where the anger is stemming from, and not just "shotgun" everything under 'crossdressing'.

Not to be too nosy, but how is everything else in your marriage? Are you happy overall, notwithstanding the CD'ing? How is your job? Are you doing the same type of work as hubby, but paid less for it?

I just don't think that "CD" is the total issue. And I hope that we are helping, and not just clouding the issue.

~Jodie-Lynn

[DonnaT]

Wow, I see a lot of anger or frustration forming over Kitty's post.

When someone asks for help, please don't try helping by being angry and replying with anger.

Most of us don't like having anger directed at us.


I think that crossdressers in general are just men who are taking the best things about being a women and turning it into some sexual thing or some way to escape from the pressures that are presented to men. In other words, I really don't feel that CD'S have earned the right to or payed enough dues to wear a women's shoes.

You seem to missing one very fundamental aspect of our CDing Kitty, and that is, we (or most of anyway) are transgendered. Our level of being TG may be at any number of different levels in the spectrum.

However, our being trans reared its (ugly) head when we were (most of us anyway) children, not men.

Would you have the same feeling towards a child being CD?

We don't continue CDing because we want to be this or that, or want to emulate women, not really. The reason we continue when we reach adulthood is because we are transgendered.

There's an urge that can't be explained because we don't know its source, and even if we knew its source, we probably still couldn't give a good explanation of this urge to cross-dress.

So, since the urge can't be explained, or isn't understood by some of us, we say we do it because we like it, or we want to feel like a woman. Hell, we'll never really know what it feels like to be a woman, we can only imagine what it feels like. But saying we do it because we like it doesnt explain why we like it.

Saying we do it because we want to feel like a woman, doesn't explain why we started CDing when we were children.

So, all I can suggest is that you try and remember that this was some characteristic we were born with, like being right handed or heterosexual.

We did not choose to be transgendered, it chose us. There is no known cure for this. You wouldn't be angry at someone for being born handicapped would you?

What ever the affliction one is born with, hate the affliction, not the person afflicted.

Also, try to remember that some of us say we do it or like it for various reasons as a means for accepting ourselves. There are a lot of CDers out there who hate it, don't accept it or themselves because of it. I'd hate to venture how many of them express this nonacceptance as anger or by drinking or doing drugs, etc., etc. to committing suicide.

As for feelings of jealousy, that may never go away. You can learn to control it by not being angry at your spouse or yourself. So, you get jealous, accept it for what it is, and then shrug it off. Accept yourself for who you are. So, your not as skinny as he is, big deal. I don't think his love for you hinges on how skinny you are or aren't. There are some things that just can't be changed, like our being transgendered.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Kitty, I'm sorry that you're feeling so frustrated and angry. But as Gypsy Karen said, it sounds like you're upset about far more than how your husband looks like in a dress.

Yes, many CDs "play" are being a woman and don't really understand a lot of what women go through. OTOH, if you were to crossdress as a man, I suspect you'd also be interested in acting out the fun bit and not the parts of being a man that suck. I don't want to get into a debate over which gender has it harder, but I'd really urge you to take a look at Norah Vincent's book "Self-Made Man," (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?link_code=ur2&tag=adahlshous-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&path=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fgp%2Fproduct%2F 0670034665%2Fqid%3D1139440406%2Fsr%3D2-1%2Fref%3Dpd_bbs_b_2_1%3Fs%3Dbooks%26v%3Dglance%26 n%3D283155) which tells about her experiences during 18 months of posing as a man. As any of us could tell you, it wasn't the idealized picture that Vincent thought it was going to be, and might give a better idea why some of seek a gender vacation, as well as general "why guys do the things they do" understanding.

Something else to consider is whether some of your anger might be because some part of you feels women are inferior. This may fit you, it may not -- only you can decide. But to continue on with the thought, FTM crossdressers have actually been not uncommon throughout Western history and they were generally tacitly accept because society assumed it was "natural" that women would want to aspire to the greater freedoms and opportunities that men had. Whereas MTF crossdresser was/is looked down upon because it's stepping away from male privilege. What's overlooked is that crossdressers may seeking to emulate (however imperfectly) things they see as valuable about women. So of those things may be precisely the things you take for granted about being a woman, or are perhaps ambivalent about.

You've mentioned feeling envious of your husband's legs. I'm not sure men, even us CDs, fully appreciate the pressure of the beauty myth. It's one thing to get glammed up when you want to, it's another to feel like you have to be beautiful all the time. And I'm sure that's tough. OTOH, I'd ask you to imagine what it might be like to want to feel attractive and feeling like no values that -- which is the way many of us feel as men. Again, I don't want to get into who has it harder, I'm just trying to saying that few of us have a walk in the park.

In your last post, you mentioned that maybe you're upset because his crossdressing is about him and not you. I don't know the specifics of your relationship, but it sounds like that might be a central issue. At worse, CDs can be self-involved and self-centered. At the other extreme, I've seen women who can't seem to tolerate the idea that partners in a relationship might still have some separate interests and spend some time doing their own thing. Again, I'm not saying this is you, it's just a dynamic I've seen in other relationship. And somewhere in the middle it's possible there's a bit of both going. Or that the CDing is not that different from other activities that are legimately taking up too much time in the relationship, whether it's watching football or watching soap operas.

Again, as others have said, it would probably be useful for you to figure exactly who you're angry at for what. Your husband can't personally change the societal issues you're angry at, but he can work with you about things that are specific to your relationship.

Anyway, I hope this has been helpful.

[Billie Jean]

Kitty, I don't know what it is like to be another sex or race but each of theses thinks that the opposite sides have it made. We are all human and nobody was asked wich one they wanted to be before they were born. We all need to have respect for each other and let each person be the best individual they can be. There is no perfect world, sex or race just people. At least try to look from that point of veiw and things won't seem to be as bad.0.02 LOL Billie Jean

[Jennaie]

Kitty:

You have nothing to be concerned about, and I know that sounds ridicoulous but this is the truth. He is doing no more than letting go of his male persona, which leaves him with nothing bu his female side when he dresses. In my mind, I am fem when I dress, there is little to nothing male about me, I have let go of my male self and taken on a female image of what I am comfortable with. It is possible that it is not a "real person" persona, but it is what I would like to think I would be like if I were female.

One thing that I think all GG's need to remember is this: It does not matter if you are overweight, wear the wrong clothing, makeup, or do not bother to wear makeup at all, you are still a GG and it is obvious to anyone that you are female.

For him, it is next to impossible to appear female, so he has to go to extremes to try to portray a female image. This is the quest of most cd's who desire to go out in public and be recognized as female. It is not that he is stealing your role in your relationship, if anything, he is jealous of your ability to look female when you have done nothing to enhance your look.

this is not about showing you that he can be a better female than you, He knows he cannot do that, This is about him being comfortable with who he is. That is all..

[Sarah Rabbit]

I dont wish to sound disagreeable in any way shape or form but it always amazes me when a TGirl says this. How the heck does anyone other than another woman know how we think. RGs are far too complex to understand and how can a man think like a woman just because he dresses like one.
Hope you get my drift.
BEVxxxx

Having read your post, I wonder if you have misunderstood what a transgendered person is. Do you not look at the feelings and the emotions behind these post. To be frank., I do not know how a full GG feels, but there again I do not know what a full GM feels like either. Wish someone could explain explain that.;)

Hugs, Sarah R.:bunny:

[melissacd]

I agree with you GypsyKaren.


"I hate his crossdressing because it infringes on my rights as a woman!"

Your statement makes me ashamed because it has a little truth to it. I don't know if it is totally the reason. Men appear to me to get the better jobs over women, they are certainly promoted over women and when they have strong business practices it is good for business. When women act like that they are called a bitch. There are certain sterotypes applied to women that are accepted in men. Women are put down because they are perceived as more emotional and not given the respect for their opinions as much as they deserve. Then I see my husband with his ability to walk right into any dress with the legs that any women would kill for and I feel like I sort of walk in his shadow. I just want to say "wait a minute I'm the real women". I don't have the ability or the desire to be or look like a man. This is my world and you can share it but don't take it over. Leave a little something for me.
Maybe it is more about feeling left out and less desirable because a lot of the time the crossdressing is about him not me. Maybe I am too caught up in sociatal guidlines for the sexes. I am haveing one hell of a struggle with myself though. Kitty

Kitty,

Yes there is much injustice in this world still. However, there is also much opportunity as well. This holds true for men and women. Women in the western world have gained tremendously in the last while and can hold their place toe to toe with men legally, morally, socially any which way. We have to be proud of that.

That being said, what I feel that you are talking about is a self esteem issue. You appear to be struggling with self esteem related to the struggles in your own life (jobs you may not have been able to get, raising children on your own, feelings of being ignored when you express your thoughts, feelings of not looking good enough and then having your husbands dressing threaten that further). In as much as cross dressing is an easy target to lay this on and man's inhumanity to women is a great moral pedestal to stand and preach from, the fact of the matter is all people, male and female, all colors, creeds, religions, cultures have their own unique struggles and challenges. It is a world full of difficulty. It is also a world full of opportunity.

I feel that what you need to do is look at the good qualities in the world and in your husband. Look at the reasons why you love him and look for all the positive ways that cross dressing may allow you to relate with him. Use it as a tool for creating a deeper and closer relationship. Use him as a sounding board for your self esteem issues. I am sure that if he truelly loves you he will be there for you. He will help to make you feel better about yourself. He will be a good friend and partner to you.

There are many positive qualities about being both a man and a woman. You have in one package someone who given a chance can show you the best in both. Kitty, this is an opportunity to grow. I can see the mere fact that you have taken a chance and shared your feelings with us that while you struggle with your husband's cross dressing that you do want to grow. You do want to find ways to get past this and that you love your husband enough to bare your soul to the rest of us in searching for those answers.

I know that this is a struggle for you. It is a struggle for me. It is a struggle for all of us. This is not about being a man or being a woman. This is not about thinking like a man or thinking like a woman. This is not about addressing or redressing the injustices of the past. This is about being true to who we really are. Cross dressers cross dress because it is a way of expressing who they really feel they are inside. They do not do it to hurt anyone. They do it to get closer to how they feel. Most do not want to be women, most want to be themselves. That is all. Very simple.

Set your prejudices aside. Open your vulnerbilities to your husband. Get to know each other and you may find that this is a wonderful thing you have right at your door step. Open your mind, open your heart, be loving and the perhaps you will be surprised.

Huggs
Melissa

[AnnaMaria]

Kitty,

My wife and I strugle with some of the same things that you mentioned in your origional post. One thing that caught my eye when I was reading was the fact that your so is smaller than you and can wear fashions that you can't as a result of this fact. I am in much the same situation with my wife. At this point I am 2 sizes smaller than she is and she gets upset about it from time to time when we talk about clothes, not because she is upset with me but because she is upset with herself because she isn't loosing the weight that she wants to as fast as she thinks she should. One thing to consider is that there is a lot of preasure placed on women to look their best every time they step out of the house and it is not just from men but also from other women. It is almost as if there is some kind of competition always going on to look better than the other women around you so that you can fid and keep the best mate, but if you are already married and he truely loves you then your appearence has nothing to do with how he feels about you, or at least it shouldn't. One thing to consider is this question, "Do you feel the same thing toward other women that are smaller than you and can wear the clothes that you can't or is it just toward your so that you have this feeling of jealousy?" If it is just your so then I would say that there is some underlying problem that is simply manifesting ist's self in this area because you can't face the real problem.

The other issue that caught my eye is the issue of greed. There are times when cd's are precieved as wanting it all and that they are totally selfobsorbed in themselves. I am sure that my wife has seen it in me from time to time. What most so's don't consider is that as cd's we are trying to ply catch up to the women around us because we are trying to learn what you were taught from an early age. Things like makeup, and fashion that seem to most as just part of being a woman are actually learned starting in childhood. So imagine having to go back to when you were just learning to do your makup and relive the entire process all over again. It is almost like going through puberty a second time for some of us.

I realize that I may seem as if I am taking his side on this and to some extent I guess I am, but what I want you to try to understand is that while there will always be things about your so that you don't understand, wheather cd or not. There are just as many things about you that your so will never undersstand about you. Not because your a woman and he is a man but because you are different people with different experiences.

The last thing I want to mention is that while I do admit that women in our society even now have more preasure to deal with in the work place because of you sex and the precieved weakness that goes along with it. Try to imagine what it would be like to be constantly afraid of the reactions from those around you if they found out that your not the "man" that they think you should be. So you watch and play sports even though you hate it. You act like an ass around women because it's expected by your peers even though you secretly wish you didn't have to and would much rather be friends with them than the boys that you call friends. Imagine having to hide the real you from the whole world just because you were born with your plumbing on the outside so you are expected to be the strong, outspoken one that makes all the decisions. Believe me it really sucks being the man of the house sometimes. But I accept it because that is the role that I have choosen for my life and I love my wife and family and would never be willing to give them up.

I see being a tg as a gift from God. He has given me the opportunity to live the best of both worlds. But the price that I pay for that gift is that I can not be accepted by either sex because of the gift. So I live a life apart from the world at large and I focus on what is most important to me. My wife and kids, and being the best me that I can be. Wheather I am wearing a dress or pants. The clothes don't make the person they simply present a physical view of what the person wearing them is feeling at that moment. For most of the tg's that I have talked to the clothes are not about sex at all they are simply about how the tg precieves themselves at that moment in time and nothing more.

I would say that you need to express your feelings to your so and the two of you need to work on finding a way to come to some middle ground about it. Rather than you bottling up the feelings and allowing them to drive a wedge between you that will most probably end in court telling the judge "well I did but I don't now".

Good luck on your journey. I only hope that something I have said will in some way help you to find the peace that you seek.

Anna

[ReginaK]

PS: Just thought, how accepting a men would be having a F2M CD as spouse ?

He'd better be accepting lest he be labeled a misogynist pig.

[Claire]

Kitty, thank you for your 3/3 reply. It had a much nicer tone to it, and i know I speak for everyone that we hope this means that the two of you will sincerely try to work out your differences with loving open minds, and that you may have many happy years together!:)

[livy_m_b]

...it just seems that the CD doesn't understand the struggles of women. I think that crossdressers in general are just men who are taking the best things about being a women and turning it into some sexual thing or some way to escape from the pressures that are presented to men....

Do they really need to take over my female teritory. This teritory has come to me with a lot of pain and work and it is who I am genetically and physically.

Do you think that this could be behind non acceptance for a lot of spouses of CD's? If this could be the case then could it be possible for the CD's to understand and not steal too much of the limelight from the genetic women in their lives?



First, congratulations on liking your female territory - liking who you happen to be is a gift. Enjoy it.

Too, there probably is a partial explanation for cd'ing for some men as a less demanding alternative to the effort that needs to be spent on the genetic women in one's life who deserve attention, romance, care, conversation, shared activities.

Also, in every relationship, we like our own individual space - when the genetic male moves into the feminine sphere it feels like one's own personality is being denied.

Finally, even though the genetic male becomes one's best girlfriend, it's rare that "she" really fulfills a woman's need for time with other women, and fairly rare that "she" really fits in.

All in all, I think your feelings are completely okay. They're well within the normal range of responses one might have expected in your situation. You have a right to your own likes, dislikes, personality, friends, personality, individuality - it's not fair to be expected to be always understanding of and caring for others and never understood or cared for.

[Michelle Hart]

Kitty,


I want to accept my husband for who he is but I am having some internal conflict that is interfering with totally achieving that. I discovered the other day that when I get disgusted with the crossdressing usually there are feelings of anger behind it resulting from certain feminist feelings that I have.


The one thing that you have stated several times is your "feminist" thoughts or attitude. I'm mearly pointing this out and am not "taking a shot" or intend to be insulting.

Feminism IMHO has ruined women. Ask most men what they want most in their mate and it's for her to be feminine i.e. look like a woman, act and dress like one, be a good homemaker etc.

Do you know any women like that? I don't. I can sew cook clean and walk better and longer in heels than any woman I know. Most of the women in my life (wives girlfrieds etc) can't and refuse to learn how.

Go to the store, any store and look around. There was a time when it was impossible to mistake a girl for a boy or boy from a girl. Not anymore. Women dress like men everyplace. So I'm a little confused by your position.

If anything Women have "stolen" mens teritory from their pant suits to their boy cut haidoos. Complaining when they aren't admitted to the mens smoking clubs and anyplace else men seek refuge to be men. Sports, buisness, or any other industry or job you pick. Women want to do it and claim they can do it better.

Feminism has caused all of this, when was the last time you held the door open for a man?? Probably never.

We (CD TG TV et all) do our very best to emulate one small peice and it's theft.....? Feminism is all about anger and has nothing to do with "womens rights" or equality. Many years ago men may have "run the show" but it has'nt been like that for quite some time.

I may be pointing out the obvious or come across as insulting which is not my intent. I'm hoping that you will see the bigger picture and accept as we (men) have that the world around us has changed.

I do wish you well and hope you and your husband can see the best in each other and work this out.

[Julie Avery]

[quote=Julie Avery]


Julie, I didn't say that! Somehow, in your post, it is attributed to me when it should be kittypw GG.

I apologize for carelessly attributing something one person said, to someone else. It's a legitemate beef.

[Bridget]

At the same time, you have to also understand that being a CD or TG has stigmas and problems of it's own. People will almost always assume you're gay. (Not really understanding the dynamics of homosexuality, people simply assume that gay men are simply women in mens' bodies or men that want to be women) This carries the stigma of being homosexual which is ever present. However, even in the gay community, hostility flies towards CDs and TGs, exactly for this reason; they think that we misrepresent them. And in general society, men, while still having the upper hand in power in the workplace, have social issues of their own. Virginia Woolf herself said that gender archetypes put women and men at a disadvantage. Men are prejudiced against women that don't act as they expect, and vice versa.

This might not apply to everyone, but if you're of a minority racial group, tack on another challenge. The APA community, especially among males, are hostile towards gays, transgenders and lesbians. Community leaders often assert that those people don't exist in the community. Asian males have had their masculinity removed by the majority, and are often reduced to two dimensional caricatures in the media. But i digress.

You don't really "earn" being what you are born as however. You're a woman or man at birth. Likewise, you're gay or straight at birth. And lastly, you have your gender identity as it is at birth. You don't earn it. It's what you are. It doesn't give the said individual the right to be a dick, but they deserve to be whatever they are.

And the thing about gays and the fashion industry...twinge...i dunno, commenting on ever present discrimination against women while espousing a stereotype...

[Momarie]

I want to accept my husband for who he is but I am having some internal conflict that is interfering with totally achieving that. I discovered the other day that when I get disgusted with the crossdressing usually there are feelings of anger behind it resulting from certain feminist feelings that I have.

First of all men still have the run of the planet and women struggle around the world for respect and even the right to own properity or wear what she wants in public. Men in general are used to haveing things their way and I guess that for me it just seems that the CD doesn't understand the struggles of women. I think that crossdressers in general are just men who are taking the best things about being a women and turning it into some sexual thing or some way to escape from the pressures that are presented to men. In other words, I really don't feel that CD'S have earned the right to or payed enough dues to wear a women's shoes. (this is not the way I feel everyday just some days it is behind my frustration with crossdressing)

I don't want to offend anyone but sometimes I feel that men are so greedy. Isn't it enough that things come easy to men. Do they really need to take over my female teritory. This teritory has come to me with a lot of pain and work and it is who I am genetically and physically. I have said before I don't mind sharing but can wearing female clothes really give you the expirence of being a real women? How do I tame these feelings? Will I ever be able to get past this? It is not something that I dwell on daily but when I have to deal with certain situations regarding my husband or when I read certaing posts I get this feeling inside of me.

The other thing that really gets me is that my husband has the current typical female body of the fashion models. Tall, long skinny legs, no breasts and most of the female clothes are made for that body type. The fashion indrustry is run mostly by gay males. (do you think this could be a conspiracy?) I get such a twinge of jealousy that he looks hotter in most of the fashions than I do. He also has no trouble wearing any outfit, whereas I have to try on many things before I find something that looks great on me because of my curves. It broke my heart that I could not wear go go boots in the 70's because my calves were too muscular due to my obsession with tennis at the time.

Do you think that this could be behind non acceptance for a lot of spouses of CD's? If this could be the case then could it be possible for the CD's to understand and not steal too much of the limelight from the genetic women in their lives? I would like to know what everyones views are and please be kind. Kitty
I too share many of these same thoughts and feelings. I struggle at times to understand this and accept it. What I don't struggle with is the depth of my feeling for JamieTG.

[ashlee chiffon]

my ex used to say that the men she knew that dressed up *her previous boyfriend, also* looked better as women then as men. One guy was gorgeous as a woman *and has now transitioned* but looked nerdy as a guy! it's all individual stuff though and your particular situation may call for some therapy sessions *gulp..don't you just Hate that word!* wherein these feelings come out in the open in a controlled space. Venting may help and a third, impartial person may open up the channels so that whatever resentments you have can be dealt with. It'll just get worse, otherwise, as your husband needs to deal with this also. As cd's, most of us are just expressing the feelings we've had all our lives. I used to dress up fully and do the housework..it was fun in heels...my ex was angry because she couldn't find any way to make it fun! I still do, now single, and it allows me to feel ok with staying in the house all day on a Sunday and play house, cleaning, rearranging stuff, etc...and enjoy the feel of my dress and slip move about my nylons, heels clicking, earrings jingling, smooth lipstick on lips, feel of makeup,trying on different outfits etc...
bottom line...it Is fun for us...i just wish i could incorporate it into a relationship! hard to do, as you well know! Your feelings are echoed by other women i have known in the same types of relationships. I think i made it worse when younger because dressing centered around me. I sometimes was inconsiderate and Didn't compliment her when she dressed up...bad Me!!! thats how the problems start...inconsideration and self centeredness on the man's part! I have seen it with others i have known and it follows a common thread. Men are pigs! Women Should rule!:notworthy:
just my humble opinion and i hope i haven't offended other cd's here...

[Momarie]

I would also like to add this, having come to this site several weeks ago and just reading through so many hundreds of threads ~ trying to find some insight into my dear friend Jamie and a better understanding of how to not just accept Jamie but to love Jamie as much as I love Jim.

There are many of those among you I feel like I already know and have come to care for.
Holly, Donna T, Angel Darling, TG Marla...you have really given me a window into Jamie's soul and I admire you and your kind comfort & nurturing so much. And I have felt your heart-felt pain and the joys of your long earned happiness. (Not just these particular women, but many many more of you.)

As it was stated earlier about "how we couldn't see into each other" Well, I kinda think through this sight~site.....I have.

And that's what makes it all so vauable.

I understand what Kitty said and I also understand what so many of you suffer.

[Jodie_Lynn]

At that ladies and gentlebeings is what it is all about. If one person can benefit from sites like this,then it is all worth it, no?

JaimeTG's S/O, I'm glad that you were able to find something of use here, and I hope that you and Jaime continue to share this place with the rest of us.

Kitty, I think that you too will learn something to take into your relationship with your SO too. You have taken a brave step, as brave as any CD going out dressed in daylight has: You have looked for ways to accept your husband and his burden.

That is all anyone can ask, is that people >>try<< to accept us.

We may not be perfect, but then, no one is, right?

Peace, love and good wishes to all.

~Jodie-Lynn

[Claudia5]

Kitty,

Having read & re-read your original post several times I must say I find it hard to find a lot to disagree with (apart from the “gay” jibe which sounds a bit like a fit of pique at the unfairness of it all, and which I‘m sure you don’t really mean).

As far as I’m concerned it is up to us as “wannabe girls” (I use the remark light heartedly, OK ?;) ) to firstly take on board the fact that the most accepting, and loving of spouses can feel very threatened by crossdressing and they will feel more threatened if appears to come with no attempt to understand or empathise with what it means to be a woman, which even in the most liberal of societies has the status of a 2nd class citizen to varying degrees. I am convinced that only by deep empathy and stopping trying to get our way by “male” methods (assumption that you are right & bullying) can this suspicion be allayed.

When I read the bit about him looking better in “fashion items” than you I must admit that I was amazed how much my sympathy went out to you. That must feel awful! But you must know as well as I do that the fashion industry is firstly selling fantasy and that so much couture is designed around stick thin super models who have to maintain an extremely un-natural lifestyle (quite possibly involving abuse of class A drugs) to retain their figures. Nobody who doesn’t have to do that for a living should have to emulate that! If I dream about being able to wear certain items then that dream will involve having the curves to look good in them! Women come in all shapes and sizes and curves seem to be a prominent feature ;)

The other thing about sizing is that it’s all a bit of a con. In some shops a UK 10 is really an old fashioned 12, a 12 a 14 etc etc because if a certain shop is telling her that she’s a 10 when she tries it on, it makes her feel better about herself (and all the cakes ?) and she’ll shop there rather than the nasty place where they insist she is a 12! Soon we’ll all be able to eat what we like and squeeze in to size 10 dresses!! :jumping:

love Claudia x

[kittypw GG]

Thank you all for your responses. You have given me a lot of food for thought. I have certainly identified a problem that stands in my way of total acceptance. What it is exactly I am not sure but it is something distastful inside of me that is entwined with a lot of values or beliefs that I have. I am trying to figure out just where it is coming from and expunge it.

I expirenced something similar when my son came home with at tatoo. I could not look at it, and I felt very upset and angry. This reaction was a total shock to me. I certainly have considered myself very open minded which is why this strong of a reaciton seemed unusual for me. He explained that it just wasn't a stupid tatoo but that it had a deep meaning for him. It is three lions and has the words clandestine heros encircling it. Once I looked at it and understood the meaning it had for him I thought that it was very well done and I was proud that he put so much thought into something that was going to remain on his body for a lifetime.

I put this expirence away until my husband and I have come to this crossroad. My reaction is similar to the tatoo reaction. I have been thinking about it a lot. Where is it coming from? How did it form and what core belief or value am I having conflict with. I may have to do some reading on how we develop our belief systems.

I want to extend a heartfelt thankyou to all who responded. Even the ones who may have been scolding me. I , of all people, understand the emotions this topic stirs up. You continue to help me sort out my feelings and help me grow as a person. With out all of you my husband and I would feel so alone.
Kitty

[Sophia Rearen]

I want to extend a heartfelt thankyou to all who responded. Even the ones who may have been scolding me. I , of all people, understand the emotions this topic stirs up. You continue to help me sort out my feelings and help me grow as a person. With out all of you my husband and I would feel so alone.
Kitty


I can certainly vouch for those stirred up emotions. I'd to thank you again for your openess and bringing this conflict to the forum. I know it helps with many perspectives. Good luck on your journey. And, we are here if you need us. No matter how pissed we seem.