Feeling isolated and shackled

[Anne van D]

I'm new here, so I'll give some of my background.

Since I was a teenager, I would wear panties every now and then in secret. I was raised Mormon and that type of thing was considered a sin that shouldn't be done, let alone even thought about (yes the Book of Mormon musical hit it on the head with the song "Turn It Off") . I harbored self-loathing, shame and guilt well into my adulthood. My wife of nearly 20 years and I left the Mormon church recently and because of that I suddenly felt the weight of wanting to cross dress lift and started to explore it. (Yes, Mormons are even told what kind of underwear you can wear.)

At first I approached my wife very timidly about wearing panties. She was very confused as, out of shame and embarrassment, I had never once brought this up in all the years we were married. Over the course of about a year she finally consented and I started wearing panties 24/7 last fall. During this time, we had many difficult conversations and I was seeing a therapist to work through it all.

Well, it didn't take long before the floodgates opened and I just wanted more. I wanted to try heels, skirts, tights, etc. Over this time I've realized I'm not interested in taking on a female persona or trying to pass. I love women's clothing and wish that could be the clothing of my choice. I want to be both male and female; I want to be me.

Since I had been so open before with my wife about panties, I thought we could have a conversation about the rest around the end of the year. I was so wrong about how it would go; it was horrible. She was on the brink of divorcing me because of it. I went into exile from the websites I had been visiting, like this one, and swore that I'd be done with it. Luckily she didn't make me dress in men's underwear, but she slammed the door shut on anything else in the future.

So it's been a little over a month and we've only had one more conversation. She did say in this follow up that if I felt this was an important part of me, she'd support that, but we couldn't stay married if that were the case. She wouldn't have dated or married me if she had known I was a cross dresser.

Now you can hopefully understand why I'm feeling isolated and shackled. Besides my therapist (who fully supports me and lets me dress how I want in our sessions) and my wife (who has put limits on my dressing), no one else in my life knows what I am going through. I love my wife and I value our relationship; almost everything else about it is working well. We also have kids at home, so that is also a factor, too.

I have two doors open right now and either one will cause some joy, but also some sorrow. I either am alone, but get to be myself, or I put part of myself away and have a family and a relationship.

I want to feel hopeful again. Right now I feel like this will never change. In addition, I also can't imagine being able to dress up outside of the home. I don't want to be the source of any hatred or the center of attention. I would certainly draw eyes if I wore a skirt since I'm balding and have a beard.

Any advice or support right now is welcome.

[Stephanie47]

Advice that you get here is worth exactly what you pay for it. That being said here's my all encompassing advice. Therapy, first alone to find out what's making you tick. Make sure any therapist you see is qualified in gender issues. Expand the therapy to couple's therapy.

I can understand your issue. After years of doctrine/dogma saying what you should feel and what you should do is immoral a burden has been lifted. If you were single, then you could run wild with your desires. However, as with any marriage there is endless negotiations. Some issues never see a satisfactory resolution. I heard my wife once say, if she had known of my cross dressing, she would not have married me. She also said she would not have told me about her youthful exploits and resulting problems because, then it would have been easy to abandon our marriage. I accepted her with all her faults which have had at times a serious negative impact on our marriage. Been married for 45+ years, and, 37+ years since "the talk."

There is hope, but, there has to be some sort of acceptance by your wife in order for you to enjoy some degree of mental health. And, your wife has to be reassured all the negativity she may be imagining may not come to fruition.

The genie is out of the bottle, and, she cannot be put back in. Good luck

[DeeDeeB]

Wow. From trans folks I’ve talked with and otherwise communicated with, yours is not an unusual situation. Especially with you and your wife coming from a conservative religious background, stepping out of “normal” is very challenging. I would not presume to suggest the proper direction for you to take. I would however suggest staying with your accepting therapist and working through it with him/her. Also understand that your wife may take time to readjust to a different theology than what she was brought up in.

I have always believed in accepting others as they are, as long as they are not hurting others. So, will you get the freedom you need? Neither door will give you absolute freedom. But perhaps working in the framework of your life will allow you to grow into the life you desire and probably need.

BTW, I lost the beard 20 years ago when it started getting too grey, and Dee has a variety of wigs to cover up the “male pattern baldness”. They take ten years off my appearance. I used to be my wife’s “mountain man”. Now I’m Dee. We both grew.

Wishing you the best,
Dee
:fairy1:

[Aunt Kelly]

Welcome to the forum, Wantingp. As Stephanie wisely counsels, you should consider carefully any advice you receive here. While many of us have been through what you're now facing, and can offer a sympathetic ear, at least, that's no substitute for the assessment and intervention of a professional. So, assuming your therapist is qualified to deal with gender issues, you're already on the right track. If he or she is not, ask for a referral. Also, respectfully, your feelings and those of your wife are still likely to be influenced heavily but the culture that you have recently stepped away from. Not saying that's right or wrong, but it is a thing that you will need to deal with, and while counseling will get you part way there, you have some decisions to make in that area as well.

Again, know that here we understand and sympathize. Good luck to you.

Hugs,


Kelly

[Teresa]

Wanting,
I know you don't mention your age but if I could take a guess you are in your forties. That's usually when it hits most of us the hardest, I came out to my wife in my forties, it didn't go too well and I nearly ended my life through the rejection I felt. My wife does accept I have a need but doesn't want to see me dressed, she knows I'm not interested in men but I have made no promises how far along the TG road I need to go. Fast forward another twenty years of trying to contain it and I ended up in two sessions of couselling, the first to ensure I wouldn't attempt self harm again and the second was gender counselling . It was during the second sessions I wrote it all down and in the process put it to my wife that this is where I am with my CDing , if it was too far out of her comfort zone then we should consider a separation. It almost happened but we realised that too many people were going to be hurt so we came to a compromise. It was agreed I would get Sundays as my day and also I finally manged to go out socially, at the moment this is working, she still insists not seeing me but we have manged to tell our children about my needs and they are OK with it even to the point of telling their married partners.

I admit now it's not enough, I've found out far more about AGP and I know it's my problem , I wish to dress far more to satisfy it's needs so again I'm feeling shackled. DADT to me is destructive, to ask someone to deny something they are born with and discover through the forum that it's for life is asking too much. We are not criminals we have an inner need , OK we are all different and may need to go further down the TG road than others but it's not going to go away, we have to be honest with ourselves so we can explain it to our partners. It is a sad fact that some of us find their partners may not love them enough to help them through it, if most of them knew how much we can still be most of the things they expected when they married us they could live much happier lives. DADT is sometimes inflicted on a relationship simply through fear of what other people think, to be truthful most people aren't bothered.

I'm not sure if advice can be offered , perhaps all we can do is share stories and take from others ideas that have worked and hope they can work for you.

The bottom line is many of us have been or are still going through similar situations so you can console yourself that your not the only one going through it . One thing i did find is when separation is being considered the real talking starts, what really matters is put on the table and what is really important to both of you.

[BettyMorgan]

I think most everyone on this forum can offer their own experience but it would be unwise to offer advice for your circumstances.

I am sure many people here see themselves in your situation and feel for you. I am one of the lucky ones who can be open with my SO and dress frequently enough to satisfy my dysphoria (that wasn't always the case). After hiding for years, and feeling similar feelings of guilt, I know how hard it was for me to get over that and accept who I am. I had to be patient with my SO while she caught up with me, and in fact, she has surpassed me in acceptance and reminds me that I'm not strange, I'm not abnormal, I'm me. I've just been taught to think I'm abnormal and that needed to be unlearned. Many SO's have been taught that men wearing female clothes is somehow perverted. And they may see this change in behavior just too different to understand in the beginning. But that can change. They also may feel a sense of embarrassment, for both the CD and the SO, if this behaviour was to be discovered by other people.

The way I see it, this is who I am. And if it meant being someone else for the sake of staying together, then I know it would have been a false relationship and it would have ended one way or another.
At some point in my relationship, I had grown, in a different direction than expected by either of us. I am glad I was patient with her, and thankful she saw me for the person I am. I wish you the best.

[sweetdreams]

Wantingp, I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. You certainly have my empathy.

It's difficult and maybe dangerous for any of us to offer up too much advice. Ultimately this is something you need to find your way through. There are some difficult decisions you have to make. If you look at this site you will find a wide variety of situations we CDers have accepted. Some remain in the closet not willing to come out to their SOs, some accept a DADT relationship, some keep the dressing to the confines of their homes, others are out to relatives and friends, others are out to the world. There are no right or wrong answers. Each of us has to decide on our path and ultimately accept the challenges and consequences of those decisions. Only you can decide what is right for you and it may change over time as well.

Your therapist should be a lot of help for you and probably the best place to work through your issues. If you could get your wife engaged with the therapist it could be helpful. Maybe a couple of sessions on her own and then depending on how things go some sessions together. Something that could arise out of this is she might feel like the deck is stacked against her (i.e. your supportive therapist is now suggesting she should be ok with your hobby). Maybe she will need to finder her own therapist. Either way it could help if she had someone to talk to.

Try to keep in mind your wife's situation, her husband of 20 years is shaking her world to it's foundation and she's likely scared and hurt. It may take some time for her to process the situation. Tell her you understand how difficult this must be for her. Also tell her how much you love her and you want to spend the rest of your life with her, if she responds with similar sentiment it could form a base to build from. Don't rush to solutions, move slowly.

Keeping the lines of communications open is important as is patience with each other. Nothing needs to happen in a hurry. You have a 20 year relationship at risk and its worth taking your time. Make sure you don't have a lot of "pink fog" going on. Sometimes we get so into girly mode we start acting like 14 year old girls. It's all about us, the world should accept us and everything would be great. It isn't this simple and there are challenges to coming out to the world and those around us.

At the top of this site are the some "Sticky Threads" and one of them is titled "Tips to an SOs Acceptance." There is quite a bit of information in that thread dealing with this very issue. Could be a valuable read for you and your wife if she is willing.

There is also a forum on this site called "Loved Ones" which I believe is to support the SOs of CDers (I haven't spent any time in this area so I'm not totally sure). This could be a good resource for your wife if she is willing to do some investigation. Here she could have some interaction with other SOs and possibly work through some of her concerns.

Best wishes to both of you.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Thanks for sharing your story - you are among friends and you should feel welcome to come here and vent any time you want.

Since leaving the church was clearly a mutual decision I'm surprised that your wife isn't more understanding about your sudden release of feeling - surely she has experienced some similar release of pressure? Why else would she have wanted to leave? But she's clearly a very sheltered, conservative person who has no idea how relatively common crossdressing is.

My feeling is that you've done the right thing in being honest with her, and you're certainly wise to have found a therapist to help you deal with your feelings and the marital repercussions.

I'm not sure there's much you can do at the moment about your wife's reactions- she's dealing with something very new and alien to her experience, and presumably she's doing it without the vast support network of her Mormon friends and family. I hope there are some who will stick by her, despite her change of lifestyle, and if not it is vital that she finds new friends or activities to distract her and help take her focus off you. She needs to vent at least as much as you do.

I'm not sure there's much point trying to think too far ahead. You've just made a huge change, in leaving the church, and I think the most important thing to do is get your feet back on the ground before making further important decisions. We all understand how overwhelming the pink fog can be: you're like a jack-in-the-box who's just been let out, and of course you want to float off in ribbons and bows, but try to keep that side of you in check for now- you've got a green light to underdress, which is more than many wives can tolerate, so enjoy that, and focus on the therapy and on being the best husband and father you can be.

It may be that after a while you will decide that you need to separate, but now is not the time to be dealing with such a far-reaching decision.

Please do keep in touch with us here and know that however hard daily life seems right now, you can find support and friendship here. Quite a few of us even have beards.

Hugs, Nikki

[Lacey New]

I'm not one for offering advice because for every opinion (mine) there is a counter and I don't wish to debate what YOU should do. That is indeed your choice as you know, understand and value your situation better than any other member here. I will offer my support however. I am and have been a completely closeted crossdresser from my wife and from any one else who knows me since I started crossdressing in my teens. I admire your step forward in telling your wife - I have not done so - because I know it would end badly. So as a result, I have elected to bury my crossdressing deeply. I can only dress rarely but I accept that as the the necessary compromise that I have made to keep those things important to me. I wish you well and hope that you can patch things up.
Lacey

[Lana Mae]

I agree with the others! A good gender therapist is probably a good idea. Individual and couple therapy would probably help. The decision is yours to make! Best wishes going forward! Hugs Lana Mae

[Anne van D]

Yes, Teresa, you are right. I'm in my 40s. I didn't know that was a time when the "pink fog" hits hardest.

To everyone, I guess advice wasn't quite the right word. I just wanted to hear from others that made it through something similar what their experiences were. And so far, I've appreciated all of the perspectives others have shared so far and your support is just what I needed.

I have a great therapist, she is a specialist in Gender, Sexuality, and Faith Transitions. I'm not sure if I believe in a God anymore, but if there is one, he/she sent me to where I am so this therapist could be there to catch me as I've been falling back to earth after leaving a religion and coming to grips with my gender identity and expression.

Right now, I'm pretty sure that I'm interested in gender expression, not that I feel like that there is a woman inside of me that is my true gender. I'm wondering if I am a feminine man, or maybe something like some cultures describe as two-spirited. I'm both male and female and I'm happy being both. I just wish it were possible to dress how I want.

Here's one picture of me - I'm wearing the skirt, tights, and heels right now as I type this (different top): http://imgur.com/8SS7cQ6 This is how I wish I could dress all of the time.

[Tracii G]

Thanks for sharing your story and I just hope you can work things out.

[sweetdreams]

I posted my history in another thread. In case you haven't seen it here is a link: https://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?247255-MGTOW-A-possible-inspiration-for-DADT-afflicted-CDers&p=4060442#post4060442

As you will read, I went through a mid life crises and my life fell apart at one point not directly due to CDing but it was always there and had to be accommodated. I'm not holding this up as some sort of role model (i.e. this is the way everybody), it was the path I chose. I've dealt with my CDing all of my life and it was never very far away. Certainly there are peaks and valleys. Never felt the urge to transition and I don't see this ever happening. Quite happy with my male parts and being able to bounce back and forth between male and female modes. Strictly heterosexual. Never had the urge to be with a man. These are good things to get clear on (know about yourself).

These days sometimes it subtle little things that give me that warm feeling in my head and chest. If I'm just wearing panties and I have to go pee, as I reach in I feel the soft material and I have a little smile inside my head like "oh yeah." If I'm underdressed with stockings and a garter belt I make a habit of sitting down to pee. Pulling my jeans down and seeing what I'm wearing reminds me of who I am and how much I like to dress up. Sometimes just slipping on a nightgown or baby dolls to go to bed spins my propeller. Right now I'm in the den on the computer and I have a pair of stilettos on, that's all for feminine attire (other than my panties - 24/7). Certainly I like to go all out at times, but often these subtle things are all that's needed. They are also fairly subtle for SOs to accept. Just some thoughts.....

[Jenny22]

Dear sister (we are all sisters, here). Your and your wife's reasons for leaving your church had to be serious and complicated, yet together you did so, and together you will get through this challenge in your lives. A tremendous amount of really good thoughts have already been given. You may want to try and outline them, + and - , to see just where you two stand in the mix.
There may well be other LDS sisters here who have had your same or similar experiences and how they managed to deal with them in their family lives. Maybe they will PM you when its possible. Hang in there, and remember,"God don't make no junk."