Don't get marrried unless your SO is all in!

[phili]

I've been thinking about the built in tragedy that marriage can be made pretty sound and successful despite not including crossdressing. So we do it, figuring that crossdressing is just a small part of us, so we'll get along fine, and we are grateful to find a marriage partner in the first place. I'm guessing we harbor the idea that the one we marry will eventually come around to understanding and accepting us crossdressing. That, quite apparently, does not generally happen.

I'll propose here the thought experiment- don't get married, if you are a crossdresser, unless you won't have to be in the closet. What this means is that we need to be our full selves when we court our marriage partners, and need to know what crossdressing means to us, why we do it, be doing it, and ensure we do not have any hidden pieces of ourselves, as these can be so easily underestimated with regard to their long term impact.

It seems that around 10% of women can understand and tolerate crossdressing without rancor, and that is good odds, and is probably a very good starting screen for partners. Women generally will not prefer crossdressers, just like marrying out of race or culture is usually not a preference. We need a partner who can accept crossdressing, given strong mutual agreement on a lot of other issues, and for whom it doesn't trigger fear. They would need to accept it fully at home, with support for the social complexities that being out entails. This is all an indicator of a really strong personality, independent thinking, willingness to endure social stress, etc. This is a select group, and within that 10% [or 5%-whatever] we can then find women who feel roughly the same as we do about money, child-rearing, politics, etc..

Now that I have said this, I think it is patently obvious that having gender freedom at the core of shared understanding will very likely result in better compatibility and shared goals on all other subjects. I think today I would say to any unmarried crossdressers- put it out there fully,and say it is something of a mystery, and you need your partner to be able to navigate it with you. People want us to know who we are, so the mystery part is a weak point, but if we are fully out, and are talking about it, the mystery goes away for the most part.

Thoughts?

[Lydianne]

Greetings, Phili!

I don't know what the coming-out-to-SO success rate is, but I've certainly heard more DADT cases than fully supportive cases here.

I think the "SO all in" condition reduces to your last paragraph i.e. "being fully out" because how else would you find out his/her level of acceptance without potentially completely outing yourself? - and it is more likely to happen than not.

The holy grail would be to find the potential SO who is completely supportive of CDing in your first relationship, and then you can control your own outing to others. However, even in the absence of CDing, how often does the first relationship become the marriage?

So at some point, one is going to have to ask the question. Considering the DADT / fully supportive ratio that I've seen here --and I appreciate that we are not a representative sample of worldwide CDing-- the new relationship will probably break up because of that revelation. Then you'd probably get outed when the ex partner gets asked why they broke up with you.

At least, that's the way I view it :strugglin .

[Stephanie47]

The only problem with your analysis of a blissful marriage is the fact spouses will change. I will agree it is best to be upfront with this little 'quirk.' Then the issue arises as to 'when' does a cross dresser let the 'quirk' out of the bag. Sounds as if the safest way is to advertised in the personal column that you're a cross dresser looking for a woman. See how that is going to work out. Does a cross dresser troll on the Internet or his church, his social club, the bowling league? Before the first cup of coffee? After the first date or kiss? How far in does one go into a relationship before the 'reveal?'

And, after the 'reveal' what happens? "Oh honey, that's cute! Let's doll you up and live happily ever after!" Or, does she head for the front door or toss a drink in your face and spread the word? Those are real possibilities. And, it seems to be widely reported that when a person is swooning over her romantic partner that anything goes until the reality sets in. Is he emulating a woman in private or sitting out every night in the livingroom watching Wheel of Fortune and commenting endlessly on Vanna White's dresses and gowns? Basically, how consuming an activity of expression will this become? Will it dominate the relationship?

Frankly, although I do not recommend intentionally hiding cross dressing, it seems for many of us it has worked out. Why? Because a wife may have come to like the qualities she originally chose the guy. She may have to digest the information for a long time before there is anywhere from toleration to total acceptance and participation. I've read many many comments on this forum of suggesting to "just do it!" without any consideration of the wife's feelings, moral code, beliefs, etc. What do you do if the once accepting wife tires of it all? Real questions for real life.

I'm sure you're going to get many replies to your thread where it has all worked out with prior disclosure before tying the knot. I will be reading to see how many respond with their date heading for the hills.

And your comment that we seek a mate "who feel roughly the same as we do about money, child-rearing, politics, etc.." does not work out 50% of the time.

[Judy-Somthing]

I think people grow up and learn wether (right or wrong) that some part of their personalities are best kept hidden.

I personally know three people obsessed with making money and their family comes second.

People who can't resist having an affair, gambling, stealing, or spending much more than they earn and go in to bankruptcy.

Then there's the so called control freak who wants you to do everything their way and use a belt if you don't.

These are all people I know.

I'm just saying that I don't think cross-dressing is bad, but that's just me, just rambling.

[Jenn A116]

Not sure about "all in" but I'm very happy that I told my (now) wife before we got married. We both met later in life (late 40's/early 50's) and were willing to accept the other as they were, warts and all. I told her about Jenn once I realized she might be "the one". She easily accepted it as just part of who I was. I'm sitting here right now fully dressed (but no makeup/wig) and have been for nearly 24 hours. She occasionally comments about the outfits (as in how nice it looks or suggestions for others) but for the most part me being dressed is a non-event.

[sweetdreams]

I've posted much of my history in another post (https://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?247255-MGTOW-A-possible-inspiration-for-DADT-afflicted-CDers&p=4060442#post4060442); My life came apart when I was about 40 years old, I vowed to not get involved in a relationship that didn't accommodate my CDing. I've shared this with 3 GGs in my life and never had a flat out rejection. It's worked out pretty well overall.

There is always the question of when do you bring this up to someone you are having a relationship with. This is not a question of if, you absolutely must in my opinion. My thoughts on when are when things start getting serious. After 3 or 4 months of dating you should know if this relationship is going to have a chance, or certainly before your worlds start to merge (i.e. moving in together, getting engaged, etc.). You owe it to the other person and yourself to get this out in the open before major commitments are made, don't leave it too long. The more time that passes, the more it will hurt if things don't go well. If you CD you have to own it and share it with the person you are going to have a long term intimate relationship with. If you waffle on this responsibility you will very likely regret it farther down the road.

NEVER, EVER, EVER assume someone is going to be OK with this just because you are married. CDing can be a major hurdle in a relationship. It is more likely to end a relationship than to be accepted.

I certainly wouldn't run a personal ad on the internet saying something like "crossdresser seeking understanding female." I think you need to establish the relationship first, making sure there is common interest, values, etc., and then share your secret. I wouldn't share it on the first couple of dates. Of course this depends on the situation. There are no hard and fast rules. Use your judgement, but do get it out there before things go too far.

[StephanieM]

Much easier said than done if you ask me.
I came out to my current wife before we got married so that has helped. It was difficult and dealing with the fear of losing someone you love sometimes make you think you can keep it a secret, or think that I'll quit because I love her. Well it turns out those 2 options cause more pain than just coming out. I'm lucky that my wife doesn't mind and sometimes will have fun with it. Best decision in my life was to come clean before we said "I do" that way I can say she chose to accept this and is now stuck with it. I did tell her she never has to worry about me trying to get in another woman's panties because I have my own. :D

It's still good advice my comment wasn't meant to say that it wasn't, was just commenting on it.

[sometimes_miss]

I think the 10% thing is pretty optimistic. There's no indication anywhere that there are anywhere near that many women who will accept a crossdressing male as a husband. I don't have any recent stats, but of course, because of how many of us are in the closet, we wouldn't know if they'd be accurate anyway. What I found back in the 90's was this, and I found the 'in reality it's about half', interesting. 6% of women thought it was ok for a man to crossdress, but didn't want one as a friend or mate. 3% would consider it acceptable for a someone in their family to be a crossdresser. 1.5% would consider a crossdresser acceptable as a mate. When I went to therapists, however, they told me that about half the wives that had come in with their crossdressing mates, who had originally thought that they could handle it, could not. That leaves us with 0.75% of women who would even tolerate being the mate of a crossdresser, not saying how many might be enthusiastic about it. In the past few years, threads have popped up, asking about our wives and how many were happy that their husbands were crossdressers. The answer was almost always, just a few. It's almost always a DADT situation. This has basically been proven by marketing. If indeed there were a significant number of women who would willingly accept a crossdresser for a mate, there would be active dating sites where you could find a woman who would be 'crossdresser friendly'. Why? Because many of us would be considered very good 'catches' if not for the crossdressing. Yet, there are no such dating sites for straight girls/crossdressers. No night clubs either. Nothing. So, there's simply no viable market for it. No market means no women. There are plenty of us who would gladly fork over a substantial fee to meet women who would be good with our crossdressing; if there were indeed all these crossdresser friendly women out there, it would be a very lucrative business matching us up with them, so there would be entrepreneurs lining up to open such a business. The fact that there are not, indicates that those women simply don't exist in any significant number.

[StephanieM]

I agree they are rare but I know 2, one is my wife, and one is my step mother. My dad is a CD and she has accepted him for almost 40 years now.

[Leslie Langford]

Noble thoughts indeed, phili, and in a perfect, orderly, and rational world your approach would make absolute sense. Here's the thing, though - we do not live in a perfect, orderly, and rational world where the outcomes are always predictable and as expected. We are dealing with imperfect human beings here - ourselves, our wives or SO's , our families, our co-workers etc....all of us flawed creatures who - while perhaps usually well-intentioned, often screw up because we are either in denial, have succumbed to wishful thinking, or have otherwise let our emotions trump our logical thinking. The harsh reality is that the real world can be a messy place where not everything goes according to plan, and where there is always a happy ending where the "good guys" are vindicated .

I agree 100% with Stephanie47, and being of her generation (age late 60's) as well, I know exactly where she is coming from. When we were young, there was no such thing as the Internet to help us figure out who/what we were or to provide the ability to connect with others as this forum has allowed us to do. Crossdressing was rarely spoken of - if at all - when we were growing up during the 1950's (hate that term "back in the day", BTW), and those people who engaged in it were known as "transvestites" - a clinical term that denoted a form of mental illness, if not outright perversion or depravity. So of course, we hid deep in the closet. Even homosexually was somewhat better accepted than crossdressing back then - albeit only marginally - and even then, people were harassed, jailed, were subject to blackmail, and often had their means of livelihood taken away from them when accused of - or were "outed" for - being "different the way we were. And yet, we still felt normal enough otherwise, still felt an attraction towards the opposite sex, and still had a desire to marry and establish families with them, even if for some weird reason we also had a "thing" for their clothes. Go figure...

Of course, knowing what I know now - and given how society has evolved since those dark days - there is no question that I would have made full disclosure to my future wife before marrying her if I had to do it all over again. But that was then, and this is now. So please don't lump us "oldsters" in with the current generation who have a far wider range of choices to "do the right thing" than we ever did. And if they don't, it's all on them, and they needn't come to the likes of Stephanie and myself to participate in their pity parties.

[~Joanne~]

I agree that we shouldn't get married without putting all the cards on the table, but with that said sometimes you don't get the "cards" until your already married X number of years. At the time you got married, you may not have even consider crossdressing at that point. Granted a lot of us knew from an early age, we struggle with accepting it and hope that marriage will "cure" it. There are a lot of factors that go into everything we do, maybe not the right ones but they do. We always don't make the right choices. I am not disagreeing with you though, if you know your a CD, it should be out there before you walk the asile because, and I speak for myself here, I want to make sure the person I am heading towards is the person that means everything to me and I the same for her.

[StephanieM]

Granted a lot of us knew from an early age, we struggle with accepting it and hope that marriage will "cure" it.

Yes it's amazing how common that is among us. I honestly did believe marriage would cure it, boy was I wrong.

[KristinaK]

My wife knew I liked to dress up on Halloween.. (It was one of the pics I had on my dating profile, yes we met on a dating site). At that time, that's all I did. It wasn't until several years later, that I got the urge started and I talked with my wife about it. She has been very supportive of it while we both adjust to the change in me. It's been a compromise and shift in our relationship. It takes time and compromise and therapy helps (we both go to individual, and tried couples, but the therapist didn't work out... still haven't found another)

[Sharon B.]

I think back now the only information a lot of us older folks got was going to the library and that was limited on what what we could find out at the time. I didn't tell my soon to be wife at the time, we were married for a good nine years before I told her a year later we were divorced. I have met a few woman since then and have told some why I got divorced it didn't go over too well. Probably why I am still single after twenty six years, at least I can keep my body hair free nail polish on my toenails and dress whenever I want to.
I would like to find an understanding woman to be her part-time girl friend to go shopping with. Until then I will enjoy my time being a woman whenever I want to.

[Allison Chaynes]

I asked my wife, if You knew about this before we were married, would we be married now? Her answer was No. But people do change. She's more accepting of me now that she is also more accepting of her own kinks and quirks. So, ideally, yes, it'd be great to have all your cards on the table at the start, but it doesn't 100% guarantee anything.

[Alaina R]

I agree that it is too important an issue to not fully explore with your potential mate before marriage. I sympathize with guys who did not do that and regret it later, especially those who were young and dumb (as most of us are in our 20's). Because crossdressing is a big part of my sexuality I never tried to have a relationship without telling my partner but the fear of exposure did several times make me shy away from getting involved. I did have a girlfriend in college who had zero problem with my crossdressing but later I dated some women where the dressing created a serious barrier. I do remember knowing a girl at work who casually suggested I dressup several times (she did not know). We dated a little and liked one another but I so feared being exposed at work (this is 40 years ago) that I did not pursue the relationship and never let her know my real interest. In retrospect, I was a pretty dumb guy.
When I was in my 40's I was somewhat serious with a woman who hated the crossdressing; that made for a miserable situation where I was made to feel like I was defective and the cause of all our problems. That is no way to live. After that ended, I decided that I either find someone who is comfortable with me as I am or I will spend the rest of my life by myself (except for my pets). It's a shame that it can take years to become mature enough and realistic enough about yourself to deal with life as it is and not as you wish it were. In my case, I was extraordinary lucky and found a woman who loves male crossdressing only months after I had made my vow to stay single if necessary. We clicked on other levels as well and have now been married for 15 years. Overall, I agree that it is difficult to find women who are comfortable with male crossdressing but it is not impossible. That was true 40 years ago and is likely more true now.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Phipi Too Little To Late for so many...:daydreaming:...

[Lana Mae]

Like most here started at young age to wear panties! Again as a teen! Had no idea what this all was! Asked wife before we got married, only one female in relationship! Put on hold during marriage and only wore panties 2 or 3 times in 34+ years of marriage! Free to dress almost any time I want! Not looking for another at this point! Hugs Lana Mae

[Becky Blue]

Phili, if only it were that simple... What about the very common situation where the husband changes. Take myself as an example, started dressing at 12, had no feminine side to me and was what they would call a classic CD. i had no desire to dress, putting on items of woman's clothing for me was a kind of hobby. When I met my future wife there was absolutely no reason for me to tell her that once in a blue moon when the opportunity strikes I may put on items of woman's clothing.

Between the time I got married and age 40 perhaps I partially dressed maybe 8 times in 14 years. Then at 40 everything changed, very suddenly I had to dress and that when Becky emerged and I realised that I was more than a CD... so now what happens? Do i now get her on board? What if she was on board with a CD but not with someone who wants to dress a lot and has developed a female persona?

What if I had told her back at the get go and she was ok with me dressing once on a while, then 40 hits now what? I am sure there are many people here who have been at the same level their whole lives. But if we are getting our wives on board how do we know if we will be the same or changing?

[phili]

Thanks, everyone for all the various replies. Based on this, the members are split between- 'just get it all on the table' and 'just hide it or you'll not likely have a relationship' . It was an interesting twist to have it pointed out that some crossdressers don't feel it is critical behavior until later, so hiding it is then reasonable as well- since it is clearly outlier behavior, and SOs will generally only tolerate it within certain bounds, which we may feel are acceptable overall, considering the weakness of our position.

There is also the separate issue of when CDing is the tip of the transition iceberg, which of course it would be better to try to decide before getting married.

It is pointed out that CDing is a mysterious business, resistant to much elucidation, and maybe that murkiness is a valuable defense as a mitigating factor for sympathetic SOs. which hopefully we will marry. However, I can attest that even after really focusing on the diverse personality strands that are involved for me, and being better able to clarify the whys and whens for me- my overall sympathetic wife still has to do an exhaustive remodel of her conscious and unconscious mindsets to be able to accept it anyway. It isn't something she is eager or even willing to do. Much easier to say I am the social outlier and it is not her problem to solve. I did tell her before we got married, but she interpreted it as some tiny bedroom play thing and therefore not a problem. She says that my proposal here is right, and that the CDer needs to tell all about what they mean and show it, so there is no confusion. If I had to lay odds, I would say she still would have married me, but she would have been placing rules earlier and more precisely to keep her world livable.

I'd say the takeaway from group opinion is that before you tie the knot, at least probe your SOs POV to see how radioactive the subject is, as it at least alerts you to the risks. We don't have a poll on the divorce risk, but it is clearly significant. Since that is catastrophic loss, at which point we are either alone or do have to find another SO who does accept us- means to me that the best practice is to wait to tell until you have cemented a strong relationship on your persoaltell what you know to your fiancée, in full measure, and to say there is some risk of it evolving in some direction of more femininity. The important intro is that there is a hidden part of you, but the hidden muddled part is part of what makes you the person they are considering marrying. And then just sit there with them while their internal gears whir and they recalculate their risks from marrying you!

All my girlfriends accepted basic underdressing and occasional babydoll wearing in bed, and I think that is the acceptable level for many women- since it doesn't threaten the most basis division of labor and roles, and is perceivable as play acting to relieve curiosity. It is sad that that doesn't turn out to address the urge sufficiently! But that is why we need to peel one more layer off the onion if we can before we get married, IMO.

[ClosetED]

I have been married over 27 years, so there was not much available to know about CDing and what it meant and prognosis. One of the best suppressors of CDing desire is falling in love. I had a suitcase of stuff and dressed most nights in private. Once I meant my wife, all desire left me and I thought I was cured, because I did not know it is almost never cured. That lasted 2 years, and likely having a child by then and her full attention diverted away from me was the cause. Just part of life. And as the kids began to move out to college, another part of life changed so I began to focus more on my needs over their needs. And so CDing desire increased further.
Currently, I would suggest dating couples talk about this before marriage. But my wife recently changed drastically, and while she said previously she would not have married me if she had known, she might give a new answer today.
Hugs, Ellen

[Meghan4now]

Everyone has written so much. Self denial.

[TrishaTX]

I don't think I fully knew to be honest. I had such a broken childhood, I always thought when someone really loved me this would all stop. of course it did for a period of timed the in comes back with a vengeance. Just a a look at something I wanted to wear or the feel of something turned me right back towards what I am today. It took me until my 40s to really know this was an important part of me that wasn't going away. I with I had gotten therapy etc at a much earlier age, I would have been much healthier from a mental prospective,

back to the subject at hand, I might have had I known the full story but I didn't . I agree I should have been honest about where I was at the time, that was my big miss...

[sweetdreams]

So some of the estimates on how many males crossdress is generally in the low single digits (a few percent). Sometimes_miss, if your guesstimates are somewhat accurate then there are about the same number of accepting females. All we have to do is get everyone together.....

[biannne]

I really think that more women are accepting of men or who crossdress. In most case crossdressing is only revealed to you SO after the marriage. And then majority of women feel that you have betrayed and lied to them. From there they loose that trust.
Those men that come out reveal their crossdressing side before marriage or having a relationship have a much better success rate then those wait after the marriage.

[Becky Blue]

Brianne, that is a self full-filling prophesy, of course there are more successful marriages where the husband told before. Because if the wife to be was not accepting the marriage never happened and is not put down as any statistic its just a failed relationship.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Two problems phili.

1.) People kid themselves a lot, probably especially when getting married. They deliberately turn a blind eye to certain things, hoping that the plusses will win out. If this weren't the case I don't think many people would get married at all.

2.) Crossdressing can come out of nowhere and blindside you. Many here don't discover it till late middle age or even older.

[Jenni Yumiko]

I agree with brianne. My easiest times came from women who knew up front and the hardest was when I told after the marriage. While it worked out in the end, it was a loooong bumpy road that could have probably been avoided at the jump.

[Allsteamedup]

Having been a part of the scene for forty years, before most support groups began, the ratio of accepting women is probably higher than you think. The ones who do make themselves known to a help service are those who have difficulty working it out, and I would say that even generationally the younger ones who reach a service have as much difficulty as the older ones did. Gender and sexuality are the bigger stumbling blocks, with how family time and money are spent close behind. For women, your mental outlook is far more important than what you wear. Or put another way, dressing like a woman doesn't make you the equal of a genuine one.

[Teresa]

Phili,
If only it was as easy as that !

The problem I had was that before I married I had two GFs who knew and accepted my CDing, so naively I married and thought women would accept it. The issue didn't arise because me continuing to dress there was so much going on that the issue never came up with my wife until I found twenty years latter I was still doing it . I guess all the time I expected it to be a passing phase because it was sexual but it didn't and that was when it became to be a problem and the downward spiral started when I came out to my wife.
The question is do I have any regrets, well I might not have two great kids and three lovely grandchildren. The hard part has been the discovery that it's for life and things had to change to accommodate those needs .

I have been surprised how many wives/partners accompany CDers to my social meetings and actually enjoy it.

[CONSUELO]

Of course it is always best to be honest and tell the person you are thinking of marrying that you are a transvestite/ cross dresser. (By the way I don't think of the word "transvestite" being pejorative, so I use it freely). However it is not as simple as that because in my experience, and in the experience of many members, the desire to cross dress may not be very strong when you are in your early twenties. Although I began to dress up when I was very young I did not recognize it for what it was until much later in life. I truly believed it was more of a sexual fetish for a long while. Before marrying I told my SO and she decided that it was OK. So we went ahead and married and then I found she objected to my dressing which confused me. The answer lay in ignorance. On my part I was insufficiently educated about transvestism and transgenderism and in large part that was because there was so little information available in the pre-Internet age. On her part I believe she did not truly understand what transvestism was either and did not even attempt to find out. Of course she was hobbled by the extreme lack of information as well

So there we were on the brink of a marriage with insufficient information to understand not only what transvestism is but also how it can evolve and change in a person over time. I thought I knew myself but it turns out that I didn't really and I was completely unaware and unprepared for the strengthening of my cross dressing desires as I matured.

Yes, complete honesty is a good thing but full knowledge of the condition and of yourself is also necessary and your intended partner needs to be fully educated also, not only about transvestism but also she needs to understand her reaction to it and how her reaction may change over time.

Hence it is not simply a matter of telling. It is also a matter of understanding and knowing oneself and that alone is a major challenge. I have known several gay men who did not truly understand that they were homosexual before they were married and went ahead. Some were truly ignorant of their homosexuality while others thought that it was something that they could manage. Full understanding and realization came later and the marriage did not survive. So this type of issue is not just confined to the cross dressing community.

That said I still believe that hiding ones cross dressing will only lead to trouble in the future. Be honest with others but also be honest with yourself and that requires lots of knowledge.

[suzanne]

Your subject line is the best advice of all. Unfortunately, this site wasn't available 35 years ago when I got married. So, when I inevitably found in couldn't keep it in the closet anymore, it was the start of 25 years of a whole lotta crap I wished I could have avoided. We did eventually arrive at our compromise, but she told me in counseling that if she knew I was a CD before we got married, she wouldn't have. I so envy the twentysomethings now that can talk more freely about these issues than when I was young.

[atxpantyboy]

I whole heartedly agree, phili. I have informed all SOs about my crossdressing fetish and pansexuality early on in every serious relationship since college. I've never had any leave as a result, some have even been enthusiastic supporters, some have been very accepting, but not "into" enough themselves for what I need in a long term relationship. I have accepted that to truly be happy, I need to be with a woman who is "into" CDs to some extent, and also someone who is non-monogamous and open minded regarding sexuality.

For those reasons, I'm still unmarried, but I do always put that info out there and up front in my online dating profiles and to my close circle of friends. I've told them all that any time they think about fixing me up with one of their friends, or if someone expresses any interest in me, to make sure they know the basics of my CDing and sexuality. Honesty is the best policy and I'm so much happier living more openly now. Even if I am still single...

[ReineD]

Thoughts?

I agree with you wholeheartedly.


some have been very accepting, but not "into" enough themselves for what I need in a long term relationship. I have accepted that to truly be happy, I need to be with a woman who is "into" CDs to some extent, and also someone who is non-monogamous and open minded regarding sexuality.

You mean a GG who is into it sexually, as in getting off on having sex with you crossdressed more than when you are not?

You might find such GGs, but the issue is having them sustain that level of interest in the long term, if you are looking for long-term partners. We've had many GGs join this site over the years and some have indeed said they were into it with their brand new boyfriends. In fact, they joined to learn how they could please their new boyfriends even more. But, these new GGs invariably posted once or twice, never to return. Whether they eventually found relationship bliss and didn't need advice anymore, or whether they tired of the CDing as they learned more about it (that it was the main interest and not a simple enhancement to hetero sex, in other words, the GGs were not in the starring role), is anyone's guess.

We've also had lots of CD members who said that in the beginning, their wives were into it sexually, only to have the interest wean or almost disappear in the long term, I assume for the same reasons. I'm guessing it was because their wives no longer felt they were the main interest in the bedroom.

So my advice is to join an alt-sex community, for people who deliberatly seek non-traditional sex. You should check out Fet Life. They have chapters in every major city.

[phili]

Reine's point about our SOs needing to feel they are our loved sexual interest, not an object in our fantasies about ourselves. I once felt a girl was attracted to and pursuing me as a masculine sex object, and it was awful. I couldn't believe I was turning down her offer, but I didn't want to feel like she didn't know or care who I was and how I felt. That I was to play act for her.

This may not feel bad for everyone, and role playing sex is common and the core staple of porn, but marriage only is satisfying when it is a live positive and emotionally connected experience! We wouldn't want to marry someone who cared more about their clothes than how we were feeling and what we wanted to talk about.

[Steph65]

In my first Marriage it wasn't too good. My ex was nasty and even told my family. I was lucky they brushed it off as her trying to cause trouble. My dressing didn't get in the way of our break up mind you she threw out alot of my clothes. I did manage to save alot and ended up divorced. it was brought up in the courts and even my family was almost dragged into it. When it came time and I finally got my buisness in order I wanted to settle down. I dated a guy who wanted to be with a CD and it was good for a year. In and out of relationships for a year or two and I decided to settle for what I wanted.

I sat down and said I am not giving up the CD life. If a woman wants to be with me she has to accept my dressing. I dated one woman who tried to shame me in front of our friends of singles and daters. I decided to keep going and ended up with a message one day this woman wants to talk to me. We dated and after a few months we could not be apart we did everything together and we were very open.

My heart got torn this is a woman I wanted to be with. She asked me to move in with her (her daughter lived with her at the time). I told her we need to talk and that this was going to be the maker or breaker talk. I told her that if we moved in together I did not want to live common law we had to get married with in the year. the next night she came over and said yes to that. I also broke down almost in tears...... I told her about my dressing up. That It is part of me and I was not going to stop....... I said I have been doing it since I was 13. Well I walked away knowing she didn't say anything and was shocked. She called me up and said we need to talk. I said it is ok if you don't want anything to do with this now and we can go our separate ways. She said I had to come to her place and we needed to talk everything over.

We talked for a few hours as she asked me to tell her what I went thru. She grabbed my hand and said she wanted to be with me and she would support and help me and would eventually like to go out as 2 women shopping or walking around. I moved in with her 10 years ago we shared a closet full of her clothes on one side and my dresses on the other half. The other closet was both our clothes. She told me after I told her about what my ex did she cried and could not believe some people are so mean.

The one point of view I take on this is you only live once and I do not want to say I wish I did this or that. I know when I have told people about me dressing it lifted a big weight off my shoulders.

By the way my wife and I will be married 10 years this November. One night we will go out as a couple and the next night we plan on going out as me dressed.

[kimdl93]

Ok, so I've been divorced twice after a combined 35 years of marriage to two women. Each accommodated my thing in her own way. And as I evolved or became more self indulgent, or both, I managed to leave both of them that they were sexual props...there to feed my fantasies, but not theirs. The details and level of involvement varied from one to the next, but I think what angered them in the end was, just as Reine suggests, that they quite rightly felt their needs were being neglected.

In retrospect, I can see it all unfolding. I don't regret my need to express whatever this is in me....but I deeply regret allowing myself to become so self centered. If I had been fractionally as accommodating as either wife, things may have been more fulfilling for both of us.

But really to the point of the thread, I 'thought' or persuaded myself that I was being open and honest about who I was. And I think both my wives felt they were being accepting. Of course we all change, and start with good intentions, but any of us runs the risk of being self indulgent to a destructive degree.

[Laura28]

My Wife new before we were married and was ok with it, back then some 40 plus years ago i didnt do it much. She always liked me dressing in panties and hose. AS i have gotten older the kids grown i find myself wanting to be be more femme. I now have numerous outfits many pairs of shoes many wigs numerous forms in differnt sizes. My wife is still ok with me dressing will buy me make up and clothing on ocassion. She likes to see pictures of me fully dressed and still like to see me in hose panties and bra, even loves me totally shaved, however she has no desire to see me fully dressed and made up. Only once and it was under the condition of no wig. I find this funny (strange) but respect it. She says one of these days she will meet the full Laura but not ready to handle it. I dont get it but we are both differnt and like i saud i have to respect her wish. I have asked her manytimes if she has regrets, her answer is always a sounding NO.

[lingerieLiz]

I told my wife before we were married. I told her not too long after we started dating. She accepted it, but she thought that after we were married I would change. It didn't go as she hoped, but she does accept it. Would rather I didn't, but has bought me things. We have been married for many years.

[CONSUELO]

As I read the many replies to this post and question I am reminded of the saying -- IF ONLY I KNEW THEN WHAT I KNOW NOW.

Also I would like to point out that cross dressing tends to make us very self-centered/narcissistic/solipsistic and that can render us as unsatisfactory partners in a relationship.

[NancySue]

I'd like to add my 2 cents. We met in college and got engaged. After graduation, before setting our wedding day, I felt I needed to be honest with her and tell her about my cding. We went to dinner, she knew I was "on edge". I finally 'fessed up", expecting her to dash to the exit door. To my surprise, she stayed but had one question....was I gay or bi. I said, "no", she smiled and said "OK, how can I help". I was so relieved and exhilarated. We did a lot of talking..what, when, why, etc.
This was many years ago. She enjoys buying things she thinks would look good, helps with makeup, etc. I'm now pretty much on my own, but still ask for her advice. It's been wonderful...best thing I ever did. 👨 👩*🔧

[Nastasha]

Tell her. I did, special on so many levels

[Kelly DeWinter]

Thanks, everyone for all the various replies.
Based on this, the members are split between- 'just get it all on the table' and 'just hide it or you'll not likely have a relationship' .
You may want to read so other posts here, there are way more situations then just two.

It was an interesting twist to have it pointed out that some crossdressers don't feel it is critical behavior until later, so hiding it is then reasonable as well- since it is clearly outlier behavior, and SOs will generally only tolerate it within certain bounds, which we may feel are acceptable overall, considering the weakness of our position. Crossdressing cannot be considered "outlier", since the very term outlier implies that some sort of statistical sampling or data gathering has occurred, group opinions are not data.

There is also the separate issue of when CDing is the tip of the transition iceberg, which of course it would be better to try to decide before getting married.ip, cding would form would be the base not the tip since transition is the summit people seek to attain once they start on the road.

It is pointed out that CDing is a mysterious business, resistant to much elucidation, and maybe that murkiness is a valuable defense as a mitigating factor for sympathetic SOs. which hopefully we will marry. However, I can attest that even after really focusing on the diverse personality strands that are involved for me, and being better able to clarify the whys and whens for me- my overall sympathetic wife still has to do an exhaustive remodel of her conscious and unconscious mindsets to be able to accept it anyway. It isn't something she is eager or even willing to do. Much easier to say I am the social outlier and it is not her problem to solve. I did tell her before we got married, but she interpreted it as some tiny bedroom play thing and therefore not a problem. She says that my proposal here is right, and that the CDer needs to tell all about what they mean and show it, so there is no confusion. If I had to lay odds, I would say she still would have married me, but she would have been placing rules earlier and more precisely to keep her world livable. ​your own example is apparently one of not communicating in a manner that your spouse fully understood.


I'd say the takeaway from group opinion is that before you tie the knot, at least probe your SOs POV to see how radioactive the subject is, as it at least alerts you to the risks. We don't have a poll on the divorce risk, but it is clearly significant. Since that is catastrophic loss, at which point we are either alone or do have to find another SO who does accept us- means to me that the best practice is to wait to tell until you have cemented a strong relationship on your persoaltell what you know to your fiancée, in full measure, and to say there is some risk of it evolving in some direction of more femininity. The important intro is that there is a hidden part of you, but the hidden muddled part is part of what makes you the person they are considering marrying. And then just sit there with them while their internal gears whir and they recalculate their risks from marrying you!

All my girlfriends accepted basic underdressing and occasional babydoll wearing in bed, and I think that is the acceptable level for many women- since it doesn't threaten the most basis division of labor and roles, and is perceivable as play acting to relieve curiosity. It is sad that that doesn't turn out to address the urge sufficiently! But that is why we need to peel one more layer off the onion if we can before we get married, IMO.

You cannot blanket say you should not marry until your spouse is all in, since people change as the years go by.
. some people don't even begin crossdressing until after they are married ..... then decide to transition years later.
. some people drink lightly and become alcoholics years later.
. some people start as occasionally bad tempered person and then become abusive years later.

the point is that no one ever knows if what they are willing to accept early in their relationship at what point it becomes a deal breaker with their spouse.




.

[Karen's Secret]

I wonder how many of the totally accepting wives would, in a candid conversation, admit that they would really prefer their husbands did not crossdress? Or another way of saying it might be, how many wives wake up each day and say, "Thank God my husband is a crossdresser." I suspect it is more the former than the latter as all marriages are based on compromise and accepting each others unique issues.