Thoughts on an alternative to a femme voice

[Alice 23]

I've been doing a fair bit of thinking and problem solving lately, and I think I have discovered a solution to a "problem" of mine: I have no femme voice, and dedicating the time and resources to developing one isn't a high priority for me at the moment. As is, I have incredible vocal range (from just shy of two octaves below middle C to somewhere around an octave above middle C, for you fellow musically inclined people), but there's more to a femme voice than pitch. So, I thought, since my SO would probably go out shopping with me anyway, why don't the both of us learn ASL to the point we can converse adequately with each other, but I don't have to talk, and my SO (who is a gg) can use her natural feminine voice to speak for me? On one hand (no pun intended here), it would be good for me to learn another form of communication, and it would act as a stop gap until I can develop a feminine voice, but on the other hand, I don't want to seem offensive to anyone, especially someone with the disability of not being able to hear or speak. What are your thoughts?

[Ceera]

When I was in high school, there was a girl my age who attended a lot of the dances that I went to, despite herself being profoundly deaf. She would hold a balloon in one hand to be able to feel the beat of the music, so she could dance. She could also read lips pretty well. But I thought it would be a nice gesture on my part for me to learn at least enough ASL to introduce myself and ask her to dance, and to express a few other basic things, using ASL. "Please", "thank you", "would you like something to drink/eat", and the like. I managed to do it, and she did appreciate my effort, but despite being pretty good at learning other languages (I was already speaking some French and German in addition to English when still in high school), I never managed to learn enough ASL to hold any sort of useful conversation. It's well worth learning ASL if you need to communicate with someone who uses ASL themselves. But honestly, it's a lot of effort to learn, and most people won't have a clue what your signing means. So unless your SO is with you, being able to 'speak' in ASL isn't very useful.

I've also tried learning a passable female voice, and I found that much easier. Like you, I started with a pretty decent male singing range. I got one of the voice courses for feminizing a male voice off the Internet, and in just a couple weeks I could talk sufficiently like a GG so that no one ever reacts as if my voice is at all out of synch with my decidedly feminine appearance. I can tell you that if you know how to sing, the tricks needed to get the right tone and timbre and resonance to sound female really are not that hard to learn. And then you can talk to anyone and everyone that knows the language you are speaking in.

[GretchenM]

I am acquainted with a few transexuals and there is a big difference of opinion about how important a female voice is. Some say it is critical; others say it doesn't matter. Lots of different rationales. Quite a few women have lower voices that are like a male voice raised just a little. The difference is mainly in the effect of resonance. Men's voice boxes are a bit deeper in the throat than women's and this produces a deeper resonance in men and a bit more of a nasal quality in women.

There seems to be some agreement that pitch is not as important as speaking like a woman. Listen carefully. Women tend to say things differently than men. Men tend to say things in a bit more forceful way while women are a bit more tentative and exploratory. Makes sense. Women are naturally more in tune with the emotions of conversation and that leads to a more exploratory style of speaking than the more authoritative style used by men. Also women tend to pronounce words more distinctly while men tend to be less in tune with pronunciation and more in tune with getting it out which tends to cause men to kind run things together in a bit of a mumble.

To speak with a passably female voice you not only need a bit higher pitch and more nasal quality but you need to say things the way women do. That is harder for males because our brains function a little differently than women's and that is a large part of the biological part of sex differentiation. In an evolutionary sense, women are "designed" to be occupied with different life functions than men so when the two form a partnership they complement each other so, ideally, all the bases needed for effective survival are covered. This complementary behavior is very important for humans because it takes so long for offspring to gain independence and maturity. In full "gender reversal" it is thought that the brain somehow becomes configured like that which would be expected for the opposite sex and from that this reversed sense of identity develops. Is it genetic or is it adaptive? That is the question and nobody has a clear answer. Is a "female" brian in a male or a "male" brain in a female a result of genetics or a result of behaving that way due to a need to adapt oneself to that? It seems like it would be genetic, but there is no clear evidence that is the case. It might also be a circular constructive effect that results from a slightly reversed genetic brain structure that is reinforced by behavior and it goes back and forth until a gender reversed identity is created. Difficult to answer and even more difficult to investigate.

But getting back to developing a feminine voice, pitch may not be as important as speaking style. As most of us here are born male ask yourself what is really distinctive about the female voice? Go deep in your questioning and observation of women speaking. Consider everything. I suspect you will find that it is a whole lot more complicated than getting an acceptable pitch.

[Alice 23]

Thank you, Gretchen and Cera, for your insights. Both were very great, and shed new light on my conundrum; more to think about.

[Helen_Highwater]

A similar thread came up about a week or so ago;
https://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?247370-voice-resources

Given what Gretchen and Cera posted I though I'd re-post what I wrote in that;

I did meet a speech coach socially once and we talked about femme voices. She said the worst mistake CD'ers make is to simply go up the octaves and try to talk like the Bee Gees sing. If you want to go up the scale start by singing a Doh at your own most natural level. Then go to Ray or Mee, certainly no higher, and use that as your level. Then soften your voice. It won't give you a totally femme voice but with a little practice you will get results.

Couple the above to the advice Gretchen gave re listening to the way GG's speak in terms of constructing sentences, and with a modicum of practice you can get some way to a decent femme voice. Also, learn the art of talking with your hands. GG's express themselves far more than males in terms of hand gestures when interacting with say a SA. Don't go OTT with it. It's often subtle movements of the fingers but it's there and it registers.

[Teresa]

Alice,
It is a solution if you feel it's a problem. I've been out for a year now and no one in my social group neither TG or TS change their voice. To most of us it's not an act we are comfortable with that situation. Most people will realise what we are and to put on a false voice will probably raise a few eyebrows and maybe ridicule where there may not of been any .

[sweetdreams]

I've been messing with this for a while. I recently came across a youtube video I think is excellent (time will tell). My experience so far is aligned with what Ada Han says. I'm trying to work with her suggestions. I think it's a matter of time and practice.....

Here is the link to Ada's video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6ro2R3esHA

Here is a different website that explains textually (with diagrams) what Ada is talking about:
http://lena.kiev.ua/voice/

Hope this helps....

[Michelle (Oz)]

I agree with Teresa. It is empowering to be confident to speak with a male voice and interaction with the public removes much of the potential loneliness of a CDer. Your SO might be a short term solution while you establish the confidence to speak.

If I was full time then I'd prioritise a more femme voice.

[sometimes_miss]

I just pretend I'm a hot chick that's mute.

[Diane Taylor]

I've never considered trying to develop a feminine voice because I don't feel it's necessary but that's just me. I'm perfectly comfortable when out to just speak naturally.

[Stacy Darling]

Teresa, Has Nailed it in the way that if you fake it you'll break it.
Changing our voice box is near impossible.

I can say that I will wax and polish my body, but changing my voice is out of my league! and I wouldn't even go there.

[Maria Blackwood]

Have you tried an accent? I find I can sound much more feminine if use a Sourhern drawl. I get results from a British matron accent, too, but not as good.

When I still had a land line, I got called "ma'am" a few times when I would mess about with survey takers or sales calls. Then again it's probably easier over a voice line with its limited bandwidth.

I almost got one bored sounding guy (had to be in India based on his accent) into phone sex.

[Helena]

Alice,
It is a solution if you feel it's a problem. I've been out for a year now and no one in my social group neither TG or TS change their voice. To most of us it's not an act we are comfortable with that situation. Most people will realise what we are and to put on a false voice will probably raise a few eyebrows and maybe ridicule where there may not of been any .

Teresa,

I agree with the sentiment that putting on a false voice can make matters worse rather than just being confident but i also wonder if the members of our group (I go the same social meeting as Teresa, and it was an honour to meet her)just speak normally because it is mostly a closed venue, and even when there are joint events with the public they are fully aware, and that out and about they may try a femme voice or use some techniques to disguise.

I don't have a strong male voice, and manage just by softening a bit more and losing a little volume, though i have forgotten even this bare minimum at times and it doesn't appear to have caused a stir in the supermarket, restuarant or wherever.

[Jemma-crossing]

I've been messing with this for a while. I recently came across a youtube video I think is excellent (time will tell). My experience so far is aligned with what Ada Han says. I'm trying to work with her suggestions. I think it's a matter of time and practice.....

Here is the link to Ada's video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6ro2R3esHA

Here is a different website that explains textually (with diagrams) what Ada is talking about:
http://lena.kiev.ua/voice/

Hope this helps....

Thanks for posting these. I'm still puzzling through for myself whether to try for a female voice, which I think I could then pass most of the time if I pull it off, or just own what I'm doing and the voice I've got.

[Cheryl_Layton]

A couple of weeks ago, I emailed a friend of mine a short video of me speaking to camera as I wanted her opinion on how I came across.

I found her answer quite informative and enlightening. She told me that she watched the video as normal and then did something I’d never thought about. She then watched the video with no sound and then with no video but just sound.
What this revealed (and adds to Gretchen’s points about there being more to a woman’s voice than simply pitch) is that gestures count as much in projecting a female persona as the voice itself. Women tend to use more open facial expressions, tilt their head more, smile and maybe use their hands more while speaking.

She told me that I did present well whilst talking and looked and sounded convincing, even on the one without the video. I tend to raise my pitch ever so slightly so as to be able to maintain the level but I also articulate more, making my words clearer and slightly upper class.

I’m by no means confident with my voice as it does tend to lapse into deeper tones so I could do with some coaching (or just more practice).

Judging your own voice is difficult so if you can, get a friend to assess you.

Cheryl x

[Teresa]

Cheryl,
It doesn't help if you have a hearing impairment, I'm 50% down on the higher fequencies , I was in the shooting team at school , in those days no one thought about the health and safety aspect so no ear defenders , only a piece of screwed up 4 x 2 cleaning material, that has also left me with tinitus .
I can't say exactly what I sound like because of those problems , I guess it's partly why I don't try a female voice , I wouldn't hear myself at all !

[AllieBellema]

This is always gonna be a tough subject for me to work on... even more so than when I finally work on makeup. I have a deep, announcer like voice... makes it really hard for me to do anything that's feminine sounding. I'm planning on making a couple crossplay appearances later in the year and I know I'm gonna need something that's somewhat feminine sounding so I don't break character that much. I've tried a few times so far and it almost feels like the best one I can come up with is about as loud as a whisper. Still trying with this and gonna work on a few suggestions on this thread!

[sweetdreams]

Thanks for posting these. I'm still puzzling through for myself whether to try for a female voice, which I think I could then pass most of the time if I pull it off, or just own what I'm doing and the voice I've got.

The way I look at it is it costs me nothing to try. When I watch Ada's video (and many others on YouTube) and how well she's done with her voice I'm envious and want to see how well I can do.

I've been at it for a couple of weeks and I do think I'm making progress. Not there yet but I'm starting to hear something that sounds good.

[Geena Gee]

I've been working on developing my femme voice, but so far I sound like Kathleen Turner. A little gravely, a little raspy. And I can always just say, "I'm not bad, I'm just drawn this way."

-Geena

[Eva Bella]

I've been thinking about this a lot. On Saturday, I attended a Transgender award show. Many of the girls were really stunning. I mean, they were not only passible, but they were passable as seriously hot young women by any measure.

And yet.. the voice was a giveaway. They obviously spend time and money to work on it, but I'd still assume that I was talking to a very effeminate man if I took a phone call from one of them.

But so what? Is the goal to simply fly under the radar and never been noticed because you appear in every way to be a routine woman? Or is it to express the woman inside you... with your own voice? I think that trying to change your pitch and really mimic a naturally born female is nearly impossible for most of us. But learning how a woman talks, the articulate way that she says words... that's beautiful. And authentic. I've know quite a few trans girls that have deep voices but still talk in a wonderful and delicate female cadence. It changes everything about how they communicate.. and I believe that any of us can learn how to do that if we put our minds to it.

[williamthegreat]

I'm not sure about ASL...could you act like you're super shy and whisper? That might come across as strange too though...

[Tracii G]

Learning ASL can be helpful I suppose but you and know stop gap measures or "kicking the can down the road" just means you are trying to figure away around having to speak in girl mode.
Either learn how to use pitch, just use a softer side of your normal voice like everyone else or don't worry and use your normal voice.
If you have such a vocal range train yourself to use it don't squander the gift you have.

[XemmaX]

I dont even try but i dont thinks that necessary either. Women like men have all varying levels of pitch anyway. faking one rarely works unless you really really train it.

[Steph65]

I dare not try any other voice for starters I do not like my original voice sounds nasally. I have had hearing damage when I was in the army. after being in a welding shop and other loud places I have Inner Ear damage and nasal problems now. So try and change? nope I think I would sound worse. I do know some sign language but would have to brush up on it again. I wish I was born a woman.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Alice:hugs:, Like most of us here we just play the hand that was dealt to us...:daydreaming:...

[Tracii G]

I really don't worry about it so I use my voice only its softer side.
I deal with hearing loss too so that doesn't help.

[Jemma-crossing]

Is the goal to simply fly under the radar and never been noticed because you appear in every way to be a routine woman? Or is it to express the woman inside you... with your own voice? I think that trying to change your pitch and really mimic a naturally born female is nearly impossible for most of us. But learning how a woman talks, the articulate way that she says words... that's beautiful. And authentic. I've know quite a few trans girls that have deep voices but still talk in a wonderful and delicate female cadence. It changes everything about how they communicate.. and I believe that any of us can learn how to do that if we put our minds to it.

I like this perspective on it. Do what feels authentic to you, and realize that while there will always be some hints that prevent paying to everyone, do what you want to pass for your version of you.

[sometimes_miss]

Cheryl,
It doesn't help if you have a hearing impairment, I'm 50% down on the higher fequencies , I was in the shooting team at school , in those days no one thought about the health and safety aspect so no ear defenders , only a piece of screwed up 4 x 2 cleaning material, that has also left me with tinitus .
I can't say exactly what I sound like because of those problems , I guess it's partly why I don't try a female voice , I wouldn't hear myself at all !

The human voice isn't up there in the high frequencies with the mosquito ringtones where tinnitis occurs; that's the ringing in the ears which is so common. If you can't hear a young child or high pitched woman speaking, it's not the higher frequencies that you need to worry about, because you're already deaf! The human voice is normally under 500 hz. Here's a 1khz tone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9oYClOrS-k

Stereo speakers often boast about their ability to reproduce 20 hz to 20,000 hz. But you'll rarely hear anything even remotely close to that. A high pitch trumpet is less than 1khz. FM radio maxes out at around 10,000 hz.

https://www.reference.com/science/frequency-range-human-speech-3edae27f8c397c65.

That said, there are lessons available to those who wish to change their voice. But it's not simple, and it requires lots of practice to get it right.