Dressing and sexual gratification

[sweetdreams]

I was reading a book (Resource guide to coming out for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender Americans) and one section they stated this:

"Cross-dressers identify as their gender at birth but sometimes dress in clothing of the opposite gender. Transvestite is a psychiatric term describing men and women who cross-dress for sexual gratification."

I know in my journey it started out to be much more of a sexual gratification thing (transvestite), but as time passed it's become more of my female part expressing itself (cross-dresser). I can still get turned on pretty quickly if I'm dressed and the mood goes in that direction. It's kind of like the sexual arousal is just below the surface and at the slightest hint in that direction and things can happen quickly.

Actually the more I think about this it's evolved more over the years than I had originally thought. Initially I came to CDing like many of us, at a very early age. First time at 5 years old, second at 9 year old, third at 13. All of these were before I knew what sex was. It was purely me meeting my feminine side and enjoying the association with female clothes. Then I hit puberty and it became very much sexual, likely because of my sex drive ramped up significantly. Now in my older years as the sex drive recedes a little, the feminine side has taken the forefront.

Do you identify as a cross-dresser or transvestite based on the definition above?

Has it changed over the years?

[docrobbysherry]

Interesting terminology, SD. Something we argue about endlessly here. I describe myself as a CD and probably not a TG/TS on this site. Did your book mention autogynephilia? Where dressers r turned on by their image dressed? That is what seems to blow my hair back!:o

Or, r u simply turned on by some of the items u r wearing? Those items may be fetishes for those that r. Some dressers r turned on by the feel, textures, and or restrictions of the clothing items themselves.

[JenniferR771]

How important is your mirror?
Would you still crossdress if there were no mirrors in your house?

[Alice B]

Mirror, mirror on the wall. Who's the fairest of them all? It has got to be me when I look in the mirror. The mirror is important to us all.

[Rachael Leigh]

While yes I use to get turned on by dressing at an early age as I got older I knew it was way deeper then that.
The need to express myself in a feminine way became much stronger which did actulky confuse me more.
Now it's finally come together in that I'm gender fluid and my sexuality is part of my expression, if that makes sense

[BillieAnneJean]

Hey Sweetdreams,
Are you still dressing once every four years?

Amazing self control, denial, or just too small a wardrobe?

[Wen4cd]

If pressed, I consider myself a 'transvestite' although I have never been sexually turned on by my own dressing. My sexuality lies down different pathways.

When I was a kid in highschool the health teacher I had defined transvestite as "someone who crossdresses, sometimes for sexual gratification, but often times just for comfort." That was good enough for me, because I do what I do and don't really care what one calls it.

I really really dislike the tendency to have umpteen million different labels to apply yourself with with more being invented every day. This is why we have things called 'names,' as individuals. The identity racket honestly has nothing to offer.

You probably should not spend any effort worrying about which label fits you, because once you do, then there will a subtle pressure for you to conform to the label.

[Pat]

My take on it was that for me the sexual aspect was just me as a repressed kid using the astounding energy that sexual excitement gives to a natal male to overcome the self-suppression of wanting to dress. Long before things got sexual, I learned to hide and suppress my transgender feelings. Sexual energy could break those barriers down for a time. After a while, I learned some self-acceptance and didn't need that extra push to get past my own repression and then dressing lost its sexual link. I can't say that's how it is for everyone, but that's how it was for me. ;)

[Tracii G]

Wen4cd I agree.
I'm opposed to all these labels and flavor of the month gender terms for people that want to be different and want to make up a new name for what they do.
Why is there such a need to be that one little special snowflake that is so special it needs its own gender name.
On one website with many people with GI issues a thread was running about sex.
One GG said I'm pansexual then one said I used to be but now I think I'm bi. OK confused much??
One said they were asexual and one responded well my BF is trisexual. OK that was one I never heard of LOL.

Back when I first started CDing there was a small sexual thrill but within a week or two that was gone.

[Evie82]

It used to be for me, but as I got to my later teens and early twenties I realised that what the real buzz was seeing myself the way I wanted to be, and the fact that dressing made me feel happy, relaxed and contented was a big confirmation for me.
That said, the crowd I used to hang out with wouldn't have understood so I surpressed the want/need to dress and that side of me to the point that I was thoroughly miserable and ploughed through several train-wreck relationships.
These days my partner is fully supportive of me (we are both trans) which really is the most wonderful thing. So the fact that I present female and (s)he presents male when we can (we're not out as such, but we'd love to do that together) is just part of our relationship, in and out of the bedroom. If I wear something sexy then of course I'll probably feel that way and may get turned on. But I'd bet that most women experience that, and it's more down the the emotional responses between my partner and I than down to it being a fetish or feeling 'naughty' or 'kinky' or like I'm getting aroused by doing something I shouldn't.
So I suppose that when I'm dressed, arousal can happen much the same way it does when I'm in drab. This seems to me to be perfectly reasonable and it's not something I worry about too much.
I'll stop now before I really start to ramble!

Edit: I should have mentioned that I liked to dress up before I knew what sex was, so I think I've always had a feminine streak in me - it just took a long time for me to figure it out.

[Teresa]

Sweetdreams,
I'm sorry to correct you but transvestite is Latin for crossdressing, ( trans= cross, vestite= clothes/garb ,) there is also no sexual content in either term.

It's media that has added the labels.

We shouldn't be afraid to admit we have a sexual content to our CDing, it started with a bang for me at the age of 8-9 years, I know now I was born with a female trait, which was overlaid on my male side, various circumstances came together and the whole thing became intertwined with females, clothing and sex. I know now that was the start of my AGP, the feeling or need from that moment has never gone away, I have lived with the gut feeling 24/7 ever since. I did ask the question in the TS section as to what happens when the T level finally subsides but at the moment it isn't showing any signs of dropping. I will add I was born in the era of ignorance of sex, so I was more traumatised by the way my CDing started , I refer to it as a combination lock being set in my brain and no one has the combination to unlock it. When I advise people to go back to their roots when they say they don't understand their CDing this is the reason why, the way mine started has affected me all my life.

[Wen4cd]

Teresa I also use the 'combination lock' analogy with sexual energies. A friend I once knew describes the phenomna as a creek: When you reach climax, your brain has gone down certain neural pathways to get there. This cuts a channel like a stream to the goal, and the pathway is now the path of least resistance. The channel cuts itself deeper and deeper each time. Making it less and less likely there will ever be another path. Your brain unconsciously remembers the neural pathways to the climax, but you consciously only see this as a series of evocative symbols that associate with the journey. It becomes a game of understanding and managing your symbols.

[Jaylyn]

Sweet dreams, I say that I was cross dressing or playing moms things long before I knew what sex was. This is evidenced of some old black and white pictures mom had of me in front of a round mirror wearing her hat and lipstick. In my teens I loved the hose the old girdles and the jewlry mom had. That's the time I started getting turned on by dressing and really I found the sexual gratification for many years after that in the dressing. In my late sixties I'm now wearing my panties daily.i don't dress near as often. I've purged a lot of things but still keep my hose and makeup and the clothing that I find smooth and comfortable to wear. It's soothing to me, especially when I'm stressed ( which not as much now as in my early years of raising kids and in jobs that were stressful and demanding), the clothing though is still very soothing and relaxing to me. Not so much as a sexual thing. So I guess we all might have a little transvestite and CD in us. Another possibility is that we all pass thru stages of different definitions. I hate being labeled as anything but human so really you can call me anything just so I'm get the call when it's time to eat supper. Lol

[sweetdreams]

Hey Sweetdreams,
Are you still dressing once every four years?

Amazing self control, denial, or just too small a wardrobe?

Ha! That's funny.:o

No I've progressed a little further than that now. I did seem to have a pattern when I was young. Yes roughly a four year cycle. They were broken up by a pattern of a parent finding my stash. I would quit, but after about four years I couldn't resist any longer.

[Ressie]

Would my desire to dress as a nun make me a transister?

[sweetdreams]

Would my desire to dress as a nun make me a transister?

Or for those who wear breast forms - transformers.

Or for those who are serious about transitioning they could have a transmission.

Or when we get dressed up we could be undertaking a transaction.

Or those who only occasionally get dressed up when the urge is compelling they could be getting a transfusion.

Or when one of my parents found my stash when I was a kid they realized they were transparent.

Jeeze someone take my internet away and stop me. I'm on a roll. :)

[BillieAnneJean]

Ha! That's funny.:o

No I've progressed a little further than that now. I did seem to have a pattern when I was young. Yes roughly a four year cycle. They were broken up by a pattern of a parent finding my stash. I would quite, but after about four years I couldn't resist any longer.

I am pleased that you saw that I was being funny!

I hope you have a LOT more fun CDing now!

[CarolBrown]

I really hate the word transvestite. Do I get aroused when I am dressed as a woman, yes, but, no more so than when dressed in male clothing. could I live without a mirror, of course, but, again, when I brush my hair or shave, I use a mirror in male mode.

I grew up knowing the word Transvestite and it having a degrading 'wierdo' aspect to it. Cross dresser doesn't have the same connotation, ultimately the majority of women's clothing that we wear today was worn by men a millennia ago. A woman can wear anything she likes, be it men's or women's and no one is worried, why is it that men are seen by society as 'wrong' should they dare to wear a skirt or dress (whilst obviously portraying a man)...

[Lana Mae]

I was lost about all this until 2015! My crossdressing before that was panties mostly! It was sexual but as I said I knew nothing! Transvestite was a term for a male in a dress with all the negative connotations! In 2015, I realized i was a crossdresser! My wife passed away(not accepting in any way shape or form) and I had suppressed the"urge" for 34+ years (with a few times wearing panties but purged immediately). After about a month, the pink fog set in and I literally rushed to K Mart and purchased some panties! They felt great but it was not a sexual thing! It just felt good! After, being in hiding on this site, I realized and learned a whole lot rather quickly! Unlike many who feel guilty, I feel like it is me and is just right! Just my $.02! Hugs Lana Mae

[Confucius]

I don't think one category is sufficient. Whether we call it "crossdresser" or "transvestite" it all seems to be the way our brain is hardwired. When we crossdress our neural pathways release dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin and other neurotransmitters which produce the sensations we enjoy. The experience is automatic and involuntary. It is what separates us from the boring masses.

Crossdressing encompasses a very wide spectrum. Whether you develop a female alter-ego or are a simple man in a dress, we all receive pleasurable sensation from it. We can describe it as sexual, or comfort, or our authentic self, but always makes us happy.

[Ineke Vashon]

Sweetdreams, you're really funny and a good transsport.
My kind of humor. :lol:

I moved south this winter so I may have been transplanted.

Without apologies,

Ineke

[docrobbysherry]

Would my desire to dress as a nun make me a transister?It must be true, Ressie. "I heard it on the radio.":straightface:






And, I experience both. But, they r like apples and oranges, Confucius. I get comfort and become completely zoned out when dressed or dressing. But, the sexual part has NOTHING to do with comfort or "pleasurable sensations". It's about sexual satisfaction and nothing else!:D



[QUOTE=Wen4cd;4068092]Teresa I also use the 'combination lock' analogy with sexual energies. A friend I once knew describes the phenomna as a creek: When you reach climax, your brain has gone down certain neural pathways to get there. This cuts a channel like a stream to the goal, and the pathway is now the path of least resistance. The channel cuts itself deeper and deeper each time. Making it less and less likely there will ever be another path. Your brain unconsciously remembers the neural pathways to the climax, but you consciously only see this as a series of evocative symbols that associate with the journey. It becomes a game of understanding and managing your symbols.
Well said, Wen. And, this is why I quit dating a while back. While I miss the company and sensual side of having a female companion, I have found that being intimate with Sherry for so long has ruined me with actual women! To all of our dissatisfaction----:sad:



Teresa, if u ever want to discuss your possible AGP future, T levels,. etc? Remember I'm 70+! PM me!:battingeyelashes:

[lisalove]

I'm a crossdresser, because I wear the clothes meant for the opposite sex. I love the clothes so I wear them.
I have no desires to be a woman, never have. I was 5 when I started. To me it's just normal. I would feel weird if I wore men's clothes.

[Diane Taylor]

By the definitions listed in the original post I'd consider myself a "crossdresser", but I prefer not to label myself or others who wear "clothing of the opposite sex". Why does clothing have to be gender specific ? I also think that labels seem to imply that there's something "wrong" with the one who is labeled. I'm just ME and I wear what I like. As for the sexual gratification aspect......It's quite likely that many of us experienced some level of sexual gratification when we first started "dressing" because of the excitement that it brought us initially. Over time as we dressed more frequently we got to be more comfortable with it and the sexual part subsided or even disappeared. This phenomenon is mentioned in Lesley Gordon's book "Aspects of Gender".

[Sophistic8d_grl]

How important is your mirror?
Would you still crossdress if there were no mirrors in your house?
JR771: What an intriguing consideration you phrased~ thank you for sharing it! DRS, Teresa, W4CD, et al: I so enjoy your contributions!

[Lacey New]

Back in my early days of experimentation, as soon as I put on that first item (generally a pair of panties) it was sexual. And as I expanded my collection, sometime it was difficult to get everything on before well - you know. So I guess I was a transvestite fetishist by today's narrow slicing and dicing of particular human behavior. Nowadays, I will admit that there is still a sexual component to my dressing but in addition, there is just the delightful feeling of wearing. i can easily wear a bra, panties, perhaps a camisole and pantyhose under my guy clothes all day, feel good and not get excited at all. So now, perhaps I am just a crossdresser?

[Fiona123]

I crossdress and I think of myself as transgender. I too hate the word transvestite, it's outdated and used mostly in a pejorative sense. Is there a sexual aspect to my crossdressing? Yes -often. What's wrong with that? We are sexual beings (most of us are anyways). The problem lies with the shame we attach to our gender and to sex.

[Swimtran]

It's always been highly sexual for me. I don't tend to look in the mirror much when I dress because I don't look very feminine, and it kills the mood for me. I get massively aroused at the thought of being a woman, and dressing helps stimulate the fantasy. And yet when I'm done I go right back to guy mode.

[LaurenS]

How important is your mirror?
Would you still crossdress if there were no mirrors in your house?

Yes, but it wouldn't be as much fun.

- - - Updated - - -

I've tired of trying to figure out my own label. And not just for this, but also politics and other aspects of life.

having said that, understanding the definition of various classifications has definitely helped me understand myself better. Now that I think of it, I guess that is your point! :)

[Julia Welch]

It's always has been sexual for me, still is ... but, I really enjoy the way skirts, dresses and heels look and feel so dressing will always be a thing for me ...

[Robyn2006]

I can fully relate. Way back when I was a confused teen, dressing-up was a huge turn-on and I labeled myself a transvestite. But as the years went by and my comfort when ala femme became my go-to self, I finally realized that I'm transgender. Sadly my life and career prohibits coming out. I know, stupid. Nonetheless, I still find myself quite aroused when dressed. However, I attribute this arousal to just finally allowing myself to be a sexual being, something which as a male I find completely absent.

[sweetdreams]

However, I attribute this arousal to just finally allowing myself to be a sexual being, something which as a male I find completely absent.

I know what you are saying. In male mode it kind of blasse. In female mode there is an under current just below the surface. Just a little nudge and poof - game on!

I'm older and even with testosterone levels being quite low, who need Viagra. All I need is Victoria's Secret.

[LilSissyStevie]

Both Transvestic Fetishism (sexual arousal by wearing women's clothing) and Autogynephilia (sexually arousal by the thought or image of oneself as female) have been mentioned in this thread. While there is a huge overlap between them, they are not the same thing. For instance, many AGPs are only aroused by the thought of having women's bodies and the clothes are irrelevant to the fantasy. Also many TFs are only aroused by the clothing or certain articles of clothing. I belong in both camps but I don't think either AGP or TF adequately describe my fetish. To put it in it's most unsexy terms, what arouses me is the anxiety of association to symbols of emasculation. That can include wearing women's clothing, having a woman's body, being an effeminate fairy, being a submissive to a Dominatrix, being a gay bottom for hyper-masculine males and etc. Crossdressing isn't my fetish, it's just a way to accessorize it.

[Stephanie47]

I read the OP's thread yesterday, but, I did not have time to put my two cents in. I minimized the screen and Googled, "How many times do men masturbate?" I am assuming there are many responses skirting (pun intended) around the question. First,

"Cross-dressers identify as their gender at birth but sometimes dress in clothing of the opposite gender>" Duh? If you do not dress in women's clothing you are not a cross dresser.

"Transvestite is a psychiatric term describing men and women who cross-dress for sexual gratification." Wow, what does this mean? What are the implications? Based upon the unscientific evidence shown in threads on the site, it appears to me there was a lot of masturbation going on leading to "sexual gratification." Locker room talk back in high school would lead any investigator to assume half the human population was going to go blind or have his penis fall off. Or, if you are looking to fail your logic class with a solid "F," then sexual gratification = cross dressing.

Anyway, I went to some websites for statistical analysis and it seems male masturbation is something all men have done or are doing. It does appear some men are still believing masturbation will cause them to go blind. Or maybe, they are saved because they are having sexual intercourse once, twice or three times a day.

The entire statement is a bunch of "bunk." Guys at any age engage in self gratification, i.e., masturbation. Maybe the experience is enhanced because he is reading a copy of Penthouse Variations, gazing at lingerie ads in Victoria Secrets, Playboy, Playgirl or a picture of his girl friend. Or he grabbed a pair of some women's panties off the clothesline on the way to the outhouse.

Wearing women's clothing is not the motivation for sexual gratification. If my recollections are not fogged up by my advancing age I think I did a lot more masturbation with Playboy in my other hand than when I wore women's clothing. :)

[Nadia Wren]

It's 2017 and the way I see it, it is a free-for-all.
For all the years I spent dressing minimaly, maybe just a bra and pantyhose, a cheap Halloween wig that I quickly discarded, a heart racing purchase of some cheap strapy 1" sandals from Payless that too were disappeared within a month, I considered it cross dressing. It was never the complete package. Once I was over the hurdle of disclosure to my SO, she helped me procure it all. She did my make-up and after crossing the threshold of the bathroom, with a nice wig snug on my head, hoop clip-ons brushing against my upper jaw, and my legs stretched in 6" heels, all the undergarments under a simple skirt and top, I had entered a shiny new realm. I didn't feel like a dusty aborted patch quilt. I told her I felt like a transvestite and not a cross dresser anymore.
Whatever the proper nomenclature is, or how a DSM VII might describe it, it will always be that way for me.

[CONSUELO]

At a very young age I found that dressing in lingerie, especially slips, corsets and nightgowns, was a huge sexual thrill for me. Well before I came to puberty I dressed as often as I could and achieved sexual gratification from it. I still associated my fetishistic transvestism with sexual arousal and gratification. I also find dressing to be emotionally comforting and calming. So I seem to spread over quite a segment of the spectrum. Transvestism is not just a little part of me, it is an integral part of my psychological being.
My journey of sexual exploration was intimately bound up with dressing up in female clothing. I loved it and still do. Also I find that I really enjoy being dominated and I have been with some excellent ladies who have induced an incredible sexual high in me. I love going into deep sub-space when dressed. I met one domme who had a Masters degree in psychology and although she did not practice as a professional psychologist, she had a remarkable ability to understand me and to push all of the right buttons to take me to a place in my sexuality that I did not believe existed until then.
What struck me after that is how little we truly understand about ourselves as few of us have had the opportunity to go on full voyages of exploration.

I hope my rather brutal honesty does not offend anyone.

[Kelly DeWinter]

Sweetdreams

I'm not being critical of you, but I could not find a reference for a book by that name "Resource guide to coming out for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender Americans" in your post. There are a couple that sound similar.

If you could please provide author and publisher for reference in this thread.

HISTORICAL NOTES
Mangnus Hirschfeld coined the word transvestite in 1910 (from Latin trans-, "across, over" and vestitus, "dressed") to refer to the sexual interest in cross-dressing. (yes the original meaning included a sexual aspect) He used it to describe persons who habitually and voluntarily wore clothes of the opposite sex. Hirschfeld's group of transvestites consisted of both males and females, with heterosexual (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterosexual), homosexual (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual), bisexual (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisexual), and asexual (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexuality) orientations.Hirschfeld himself was not happy with the term: He believed that clothing was only an outward symbol chosen on the basis of various internal psychological situations.(gender view vs sex orientation) In fact, Hirschfeld helped people to achieve the very first name changes (legal given names were and are required to be gender-specific in Germany ) and performed the first reported sexual reassignment surgery. Hirschfeld's transvestites therefore were, in today's terms, not only transvestites, but a variety of people from the transgender spectrum. Hirschfeld also noticed that sexual arousal was often (but not always) associated with transvestism. In more recent terminology, this is sometimes called now called transvestic fetishism. Hirschfeld also clearly distinguished between transvestism as an expression of a person's "contra-sexual" (transgender) feelings and sometimes fetishistic behavior, even if the latter involved wearing clothes of the other sex.


Not all Cross-dressers identify as the gender of their birth.

So the meanings of words do change over time and to view people who are cross-dressers or who are transgendered as trasvestic fetishists is inaccurate.


For me your definitions are inaccurate and to answer your question, No using clothing strictly as an arousal component has always been a no, am i missing something ?

[Angie G]

I'm a crossdresser being dressed has nothing to do with sex for me. Just being the girl I'd like to be.:hugs:
Angie

[sweetdreams]

Hi Kelly.

Publisher is the "Human Rights Campaign Foundation." There is no author.

They make reference in the book to their "National Coming Out Project."




For me your definitions are inaccurate and to answer your question, No using clothing strictly as an arousal component has always been a no, am i missing something ?
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Point of clarification, these are not my definitions but are a quote from the book (page 10 under the heading "What Does Transgender Mean?"

[Kelly DeWinter]

Hey sweetdreams;

I still cannot find the publication you refer to.

other then the following.

Coming out as a Supporter
http://assets.hrc.org//files/assets/resources/Supporter_Guide_April_2014.pdf?_ga=1.115101255.192 8744980.1488141614

Transgender Visibility - A guide to being you
http://hrc-assets.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com//files/assets/resources/trans_guide_april_2014.pdf

[Ressie]

I wore a few items at a very young age and it felt good to wear them. When puberty hit I had this curiosity to try on my sisters dress and when I did I was very aroused sexually. Wearing women's clothing ever since has been about repeating that experience. I'm finally at a point where crossdressing isn't completely about sex, although that part of it is still there.

Also, transvestite and crossdresser are the same thing in my book, just two different languages. When it's for a sexual thrill the phrase (now days) is transvestic fetishism. Way back when (50+ years?) the phrase cross dresser wasn't used or even coined yet. And transvestism was pretty much thought of as a fetish - that was worn.

This is one reason the OP seems out of date and not quite correct. Maybe something lost in paraphrasing?

[sweetdreams]

Kelly I went on their web site as well and did not find the exact document I have.

If you want to PM me and provide a email address I can forward it on to you. It's quite small in size.

[Kelly DeWinter]

kellydewinter@yahoo.com

[IllinoisGuy1025]

I wouldn't label myself as a transvestite but I most definitely get aroused by wearing something that makes me feel sexy. I also love women or men wearing the same thing. The feeling of silk panties or spandex leggings gets me going.

[Kelly DeWinter]

The pamphlet was written in 2004 and contains many items that would be considered inaccurate by 2017 standards

Transsexual is a medical term describing people whose gender and sex do not line up, and who often seek medical treatment to bring their body and gender identity into alignment. Cross-dressers identify as their gender at birth but sometimes dress in clothing of the opposite gender. Transvestite is a psychiatric term describing men and women who cross-dress for sexual gratification. Many people, however, do not cross-dress for that reason, but do so to express their transgender nature — and prefer the terms cross-dresser, drag king or drag queen.

By 2017 standards a growing number would user the term transgender or transgendered. ( DO NOT START ON ABOUT LABELS LADIES !!!! )

Psychiatrists and Psychologists are finding out that the neat little check off boxes used for the last 60-70 years are no longer applicable to the GLTBQ community. However it seems that you can add fetish to just about anything.

[Becky Blue]

Not buying into the labels as they are a bit outdated. From the age of 12 to around 40 I could put on an item of female clothing (did not matter what) and be instantly turned on. Then suddenly almost overnight it changed, Becky emerged and dressing went from very occasional part dressing for sexual purposes to a strong urge to dress properly with no sexual aspect. That was over 10 years ago, the girl comes and goes but there is no turn on factor anymore. It disappeared overnight and never came back.

[Michelle123]

I was only around 5 yrs. old when I started playing around with moms things. mostly her dresses, and pumps. Nothing sexuall at all, (Simply because I was too young for that). But in my teens, it became very sexuall, and I became obsessed with certain items of womens underclothes. Girdles, bras, nylon stockings. I would sneak them and wear as often as I could back then, and after I had done the deed, and gotten my much needed relief, the "guilt" feeling would overcome me. All I wanted to do was get out of them as quickly as possible. It went on this way until I was around 30. Then I decided that I would not give in to those feeling of guilt and shame. I began keeping my things on even after I got my sexuall gratification. It was difficult at first, But as we all know, those feeling come back rather quickly, so All I had to do was "ride it out" for a short time, then I was happy that I kept my underclothes on. I am now in my 60's, and I must say it has always been very sexuall for me, and still is. But I also feel content, and proper to stay dressed as much as I can. I am underdressed most of the time when I am out and about, and at home, I am dressed almost all the time. I am glad that the sexuall aspect of it has not gone away, as I do look forward to that part of it very much.

[Jolyn]

what a wonderful topic ,,,,,,I'm not to concerned about the labels ,I'm still trying to figure out where I fit .I love women and want to dress like them ,the clothing is incredibly beautiful and sexually arousing to me ,
my attraction to to women's clothing came before puberty ,but was molested at the age 8 ,I had a different childhood ! a lot of abuse that I'm still trying to work through and figure out , Bi, straight, or gay ,
I stopped dressing about eight years ago ,but the need to dress just gets stronger ,
I'v opened up to a few girl friends and was surprised with the welcome ,one wants to make dresses for me .
excepting myself is getting easier , so what ever I am I'm I can't wait till I'm there ,
thank you for all sharing

[BillieAnneJean]

About me:
Crossdressing has never been sexual, my SO is my fantasy and nothing could ever top her.

Crossdressing provides me with a choice. I can be a woman to some percentage when I choose and return to guy knowing that I am not a guy because I have no choice. I choose to be a guy. This is important because when I was young I had no choices, my life was mapped out for me by the culture. Even the potential of dying in a war that no one wanted.

Crossdressing is about experiencing life from a whole new angle. I have always been independent, not going with the flow, making my own decisions. Now I get to experience some of the aspects of a woman's life, things that were denied me because of societies rules.

It seems that there are relatively few true 100% males. It seems that there are relatively few 100% trans M-F. It seems like men are somewhere in between, varying percentages of female Some have enough that they MUST transition. Some have almost none. Then most of us have varying amounts that correspond with out varying need to express ourselves in the fem. I find that because I crossdress a small amount of the time that I am happier most of the time as guy. I do not get depressed if I do not have fem time.

So crossdressing is fun for me. Except that it makes being a guy more fun. That makes crossdressing more serious for me. Because I found happiness in it, being a guy, when not CDing.

But it never has been sexual.

For others:
Life is short and can and can be shorter than you think. It doesn't matter if CDing is sexual. It doesn't matter if you want to take it to other levels. What matters is you find peace, happiness, and do not harm yourself or others. Be yourself and try to leave as small of a debris field as possible so you will have less to regret later.

Meanwhile I am having.........
SUCH FUN!

[sometimes_miss]

Add me to the list of those for whom dressing in girl clothes has nothing to do with sexual excitement. I think the term transvestite was commonly used fifty some odd years ago as the cover all term to include men who dressed as women, and at that time it was believed that it was always in an attempt to have sex with other men. We now know differently, but the connection to sex with the term transvestite continues. I don't know who coined the term, but crossdresser is slowly becoming more connected with non-sexual wearing of clothes which are normally worn only by the opposite sex. I suppose it may continue, but it will take a long time before we really know, and I won't be alive by then.

[DIANEF]

I dress purely to look as much like a GG as possible, there is no sexual element to it. In my youth I did get turned on by stockings , suspenders, lingerie (and swimsuits.....) but that was a long time ago.

[Sandy silk]

This thread has been one of the most enlightening discussions I have had the pleasure to explore. I have always felt that those who have all the answers to politics, religion, or sex troubling...I have most of the questions but very few of the answers. Like many here, I am in my late sixties, retired from a seemingly "macho" profession, served in combat like many here...and am a guy. But I feel crossdressing to be calming. The fact that my SO supports my needs, is in itself a major life relief. I started out with lingerie strictly as a sexual release. Like many, after I had "time" to explore ...explore I did. I only graduated to total dress and make up a year ago. It has become less sexual and more enjoyable. My question is.... I crave to be submissive when dressed...why I'm still exploring. CDing for me has led to an interest my interest in being dominated...but I think deep down that was there before I dressed. I'd like to hear from others on this topic.

[transfeminate]

Hello Rosie, you might be surprised to know that my forum name 'transfeminate' is actually an old and now obsolete English word for a crossdresser

[CDJoyce]

I think that we all dress for reasons particular to us. I just find it relaxing as well as sexually arousing the latter mainly because I get so few opportunities to dress and then it tends to be lingerie. With me I think it's an escape from being me to be someone different when I can dress fully. (I used to before I was married). Like a lot here I started with sister's panties etc. She used to threaten to dress me up in her clothes and rather than being afraid I was excited at the idea. One day alone in my teens I took that first step, realized how comfortable and light ladies' panties are and found myself relaxed. I became a crossdresser then

I no longer like the term 'transvestite' because I think it has in many peoples' mind the idea of an 'over the top drag queen' . So when I tried to talk things over with my wife about how I like to wear panties and wanted to get some tights she asked me was I a transvestite I said no for it's that idea she had in mind. I think to have said 'yes' would have seriously misled her and made things worse. A self justifying rationalization? Probably more truth in that than I would care to admit.

I find this forum helpful and accepting. It shows our humanity and what binds us together.

[Steph65]

Not sure how to answer this basically I love feeling like the woman I can be and I enjoy the way I look. I use what it takes to look all that woman. I get turned on by the looks. How others look as well when people find out that this hot woman is a hot guy!!!

[Barbara Black]

Would my desire to dress as a nun make me a transister?

LOL. nice one. I thought that my interest in crossdressing was purely a sexual thing for most of my life, and so I hid it from everyone, including myself. But now I know that I love the clothes for what they look like, not just for a sexual reason, including being attraction to many women was because of their clothing, not just their looks, in fact, in spite of their physical appearances sometimes.

[Periwinkle]

I've always just been a cross-dresser. I get nothing sexual out of it, and I never have. It's just fun for me.

[Lacy PJs]

Two things crossed my mind as I read through the different posts in this thread...

1. Do we not like labels because of our fear of what they say about us? Example: "I'm not fat (a rather ugly term), I'm just a little overweight (much more palatable)."

2. Is dressing a turn-on but because we are presenting as the opposite sex? Through the years, I've read terms like, "He took me home and treated me like a woman," or "My SO likes it when I take the female role in our relations," etc.

Just thinking... I know... dangerous!

Lacy PJs

[Aleca]

I think of crossdressing and transvestites as being the same thing, just the term changing over the years? Now I am hearing the term "gender fluid" and wonder if that means the same thing? Anyways, none of that really matters to me. As for my dressing, it is/ has always been a lustful turn on and do think that 50% of it is related to sex addiction, the other half I am still trying to figure out. It could be related to a desire to express a feminine side, or just a desire to be a new and improved me. I just know that when I am out in public, in addition to the lust, I feel another person inside of me coming out.

[Fiona123]

When I was young dressing was intensely sexual for me. Now at 61 dressing is something deeper - part of my identity. I prefer the term transgender.

[Geena Gee]

...
One said they were asexual and one responded well my BF is trisexual. OK that was one I never heard of LOL.


That sounds like an old pickup line I used to use, except it's spelled wrong. I would tell women that I was "trysexual" They'd always ask, "what is trysexual?" I'd answer, "If it's with you, and it's sexual, I'll try it."

[Trione]

I just enjoy the feel of the clothes. does not get me into a sexual mood unless a woman GG is involed.

[Karmen]

I don't get turned on in a sexual meaning, but I get some kind of pleasure and satisfaction when dressed. I just like wearing female clothes.

[Dana44]

I am gender fluid and when my mind is feminine. I naturally started dressing. Th dressing isn't sexual, however I am a sexual creature and if the chance arises when en fmme. Yes it goes that way.

[ClosetED]

There are many terms and some are defined differently by different sources. Some are
Fetishistic transvestite - often used when there is sexual release from wearing women's clothes
autogynephilia - some here us AGP as abbreviation that others wonder what that is. It was coined by one person and was then twisted by that person into a different meaning. The root concept, IMHO, is that the man loves the idea of himself as a woman or being seen by others as a woman.
Femophilia - a newer term with concept that this is a man who loves femininity and enjoys expressing whatever aspect they consider feminine.
Transexual - concept of person who feels they are a woman but XY chromosomes
Transgender - much looser term that may cover many of the above

I like the last term better - so if you think nightgowns are very feminine, then wearing nightgowns is enough for you. If you think being pregnant is the ultimate I femininity, you may desire to look that way. And it is not the actual look, but how you see yourself. If large breasts or large butt is your favorite aspect, then that is what you try to recreate. It may not lead to sexual release, but just happiness.

I don't want to label anyone, but just go over range of concepts I have heard.
Hugs, Ellen

[Teresa]

Closet,and others,
You may need to read up on more recent developments of AGP, it covers far more now than when Blanchard first introduced his theory . I felt it didn't relate to me until I was sent updated text concerning TGs with AGP and not TSs with AGP. It's not all sexually associated now in some cases but I admit it still drives me as it has from the age of 8-9 years, I haven't adopted it because I wanted a label, I believe my CDing is fully explained by it. The way my CDing started is a classic explanation, I know what is inside my head and the way I feel about CDing and what it does for me . I don't feel ashamed to admit it is what makes me tick, the fact that I accept it enables me to deal with it, despite not being TS there is an overwhelming feeling to be seen and accepted as a woman and wanting to transition enough to achieve it.

Sometimes I can't understand a forum with so many members saying they don't understand it and yet they appear to be afraid of seeing an explanation and accepting it as a plausible answer . We see so many threads getting bogged down in the argument between the transvestite and crossdressing label . We wear clothes of the opposite sex, the question is why and when we discover the answer we need to know how to deal with it. We owe that to ourselves and our partners , I for one really wanted to know why when they finally put me in a box I'd prefer to be wearing a lovely dress .

[XemmaX]

I feel the word transvestite does have alot of negative connotations and seems to be used as a demeaning word. but that being said it was a very sexual for me especially when i was dressing through puberty, but now i wouldn't say it's totally gone but now it's more about the thrill about what i see in the mirror and just enjoying temporarily having a break from being a man so to speak. i guess crossdresser fits more and it has way less of a negative connontations as transvestite which makes me think of some odd 50's information film..

[docrobbysherry]

I don't wish to quibble. And, if I'm off base would some expert please set me straight?:battingeyelashes:
---------------------------------------
autogynephilia - some here us AGP as abbreviation that others wonder what that is. It was coined by one person and was then twisted by that person into a different meaning. The root concept, IMHO, is that the man loves the idea of himself as a woman or being seen by others as a woman.--------------------------------
Hugs, Ellen
"Love" is it. Ellen? NOT the AGP I'm so personally familiar with. :brolleyes:

My understanding is AGP is when a dressers is ATTRACTED to himself in his mirror or the idea of appearing to be a woman. "Attracted" as in sex! "Love" is a romantic concept which may or may not involve sex. :o

[kimdl93]

AGP seems a description of behavior and associated thought process. In my own case, for example, l crossed the line from underdressing to dressing completely over a period of several years, during which my wife traveled 5 days a week for work. I missed her like crazy, and although I seldom took this to sexual Climax, I may have compensated for loneliness by creating a substitute.

Perhaps the attraction of saying I was born this way may be in some way my excuse for using sexual fantasy as a coping mechanism. I know there is nothing inherently wrong with consuming porn, dressing for sexual fulfillment, coping with loneliness or dealing with stress. But in my prudish, self judging mind, I may have found the title of transgender preferable to sex addict. Sick, huh?

[Becky Blue]

Closet,and others,
You may need to read up on more recent developments of AGP, it covers far more now than when Blanchard first introduced his theory . I felt it didn't relate to me until I was sent updated text concerning TGs with AGP and not TSs with AGP. It's not all sexually associated now in some cases but I admit it still drives me as it has from the age of 8-9 years, I haven't adopted it because I wanted a label, I believe my CDing is fully explained by it. The way my CDing started is a classic explanation, I know what is inside my head and the way I feel about CDing and what it does for me . I don't feel ashamed to admit it is what makes me tick, the fact that I accept it enables me to deal with it, despite not being TS there is an overwhelming feeling to be seen and accepted as a woman and wanting to transition enough to achieve it.

Sometimes I can't understand a forum with so many members saying they don't understand it and yet they appear to be afraid of seeing an explanation and accepting it as a plausible answer . We see so many threads getting bogged down in the argument between the transvestite and crossdressing label . We wear clothes of the opposite sex, the question is why and when we discover the answer we need to know how to deal with it. We owe that to ourselves and our partners , I for one really wanted to know why when they finally put me in a box I'd prefer to be wearing a lovely dress .

Teresa, for a simple reason those theories have been trashed by a multitude of doctors and other experts. AGP was developed as a theory to match some behaviors not the other way around, naturally it will match some people. Merely dismissing such a complicated issues as transgender as a form of sexual deviation is way too simplistic for starters. I have read quite a few books on AGP as well as many others and to me its simply not plausible.

[Teresa]

Kim/Becky,
I have asked several times on the forum if the way other members CDing started the way mine did and so far none have, I've always said that that I didn't want to be unique and I'm sure I'm not, some appear to be reluctant to tell their full story. I related my story away from the forum with people that have extended the and refined the work Blanchard did , I have personally contacted these people and exchanged useful information and their own personal thoughts on my situation, I wouldn't dismiss them as talking trash. This is what I find frustrating about the forum, I believe I know what makes me tick, yet people will not accept it if they don't fully understand what is someone's mind , all I know is I can understand my own reasons to wanting to go further and possibly transition to some degree. I'm not brainwashed by it, I have seen the objections and understood them, I can see why some people were upset by aspects of it, those areas have been worked on but to some it's too late so they choose to condemn it and decry it for themselves and others.

No Kim I'm not a sex addict, but I do still have high T levels which have driven me from those early days , nothing I can do about that. Becky I know there is more to being TG than that .

Sherry has come nearer to the mark , AGP does not always associate with sexual needs but there is far more to it than just gazing in the mirror, it explains so many of my actions and why I have the gut feeling or need 24/7.

[NicoleScott]

The question assumes there are different definitions for crossdresser and transvestite. I'm in the camp that thinks they mean the same thing. Latin-based vs. English-based, that's all. But I'll play along - as the OP defines the words I'm a TV.
But here's why I think some WANT different meanings. Generally, those who dress to express their feminine identity and deny any sexual aspect see their drive as purer, more legitimate, than those whose dressing sexually arouses them. So calling themselves crossdressers distances themselves from those sex-crazed transvestites. Worse, some prefer TG or trans, putting even more distance between themselves and for-sex dressers. Fine, if it makes you feel better....
Depending on which (of many) definitions of AGP I read, AGP does or doesn't apply to me. I used to think so, but not now, because most sources begin the description with "a mental disorder....". Yikes! I view my fetish-driven crossdressing as a characteristic, an attribute, a trait. It is a disorder when it disrupts normal life activities to the extent that treatment is indicated. I don't know if AGP applies to me, but if it does, I don't suffer from AGP, I enjoy it to the max. So there!

[ShirleyN]

"I know in my journey it started out to be much more of a sexual gratification thing (transvestite), but as time passed it's become more of my female part expressing itself (cross-dresser). I can still get turned on pretty quickly if I'm dressed and the mood goes in that direction. It's kind of like the sexual arousal is just below the surface and at the slightest hint in that direction and things can happen quickly"

Ditto for me too! When I started (all those years ago!) I was just starting to going through puberty so naturally my hormones were absolutely all over the place. Now I should point out here that I've always had a strong female influence in my life so perhaps that had an influence. When I got into a dress for the first time, it felt wonderful.
Of course, with the onset of teenage hormones at the time, It was also quite sexually arousing so I couldn't wait to do it again.
From that point on, every time i got into a skirt or dress (usually with no underwear on! I have to admit!) it was primarily a sexually arousing experience for me; so much so that I ripped a few skirts in the process!
These days though, I don't find that as sexually arousing. I now tend to think that "real women don't do this kind of thing!" so its gradually lessened over time.:heehee:

I should also point out that I have NEVER felt ashamed of my crossdressing (even though there were people who tried to make me feel ashamed at the time!)

Bottom line is: If it FEELS good, It IS GOOD!

[Teresa]

Nicole,
CDing and AGP aren't mental disorders but they can lead a person to mental torment, GD has to be dealt with as it is a mental problem.

I admit I'm a TG with AGP, I know there is also GD problem , I also admit that twenty years ago I nearly ended my life through feeling unloved and rejected. Most of that was down to the need to satisfy aspects of AGP. My male side was being rejected and so was my female side, some TGs with AGP want to be accepted as a woman by having relationships with men, I need to be accepted as a woman by having relationships with women, to be totally part of their life but as a woman rather than a man , I've never had a problem with relationships with women as a man , that was question asked by my gender counsellor .

I've never felt I have a mental illness, the mental problems come from a lack of understanding and acceptance .

[laura.lapinski]

Closet,and others,
You may need to read up on more recent developments of AGP, it covers far more now than when Blanchard first introduced his theory . I felt it didn't relate to me until I was sent updated text concerning TGs with AGP and not TSs with AGP. It's not all sexually associated now in some cases but I admit it still drives me as it has from the age of 8-9 years, I haven't adopted it because I wanted a label, I believe my CDing is fully explained by it. The way my CDing started is a classic explanation, I know what is inside my head and the way I feel about CDing and what it does for me . I don't feel ashamed to admit it is what makes me tick, the fact that I accept it enables me to deal with it, despite not being TS there is an overwhelming feeling to be seen and accepted as a woman and wanting to transition enough to achieve it.

Sometimes I can't understand a forum with so many members saying they don't understand it and yet they appear to be afraid of seeing an explanation and accepting it as a plausible answer . We see so many threads getting bogged down in the argument between the transvestite and crossdressing label . We wear clothes of the opposite sex, the question is why and when we discover the answer we need to know how to deal with it. We owe that to ourselves and our partners , I for one really wanted to know why when they finally put me in a box I'd prefer to be wearing a lovely dress .

Teresa, when I first read about AGP I thought it sounded like the best explanation of the way I felt. I would love to read the latest stuff that you have read, so if you have a link feel free to send it to me since its been several years since I read about it. I will say it was kind of frightening to read it and have to admit to myself that much of it applied to me. At the same time, it was nice to see others who shared a lot of the same inner desires and motivations that I had, and that someone had actually taken a lot of time to study it and write about it. I am grateful for that, more than those folks who did the work will know. I can see why others may resist it. I don't bring it up much here because it seems to be a lightning rod issue for a lot of people. I am not critical of any reasons that anyone lists for why they CD. Life is hard enough without having to get into arguments about all this, and I know there are many valid, genuine reasons why all the CD on this site do what they do. I have no problem with any of it, as long as they are not hurting anyone or themselves.

[Ressie]

Nicole,
CDing and AGP aren't mental disorders but they can lead a person to mental torment, GD has to be dealt with as it is a mental problem.

Maybe you could steer us to some articles to confirm that autogynephilia isn't a mental disorder or mental illness. There must be a lot of fake news out there because search results point to articles saying that it is a mental illness :(

[LilSissyStevie]

There are two things I know for sure about AGP. 1) Everybody has strong opinions about it. 2) Nobody knows anything about it. A slight exaggeration but only slight. The best source of information explaining the theory of autogynephila is Dr. Anne Lawrence's website (http://www.annelawrence.com) and her book "Men Trapped In Men's Bodies." A good personal account of AGP would be "Alice in Genderland" by Richard (Alice) Novic, M.D. AGP was the first model that somewhat described what I had experienced my entire life. There are, in my opinion, of course, things the AGP model gets right, things it gets wrong and things it doesn't attempt to explain at all. For instance, the AGP model makes no attempt to explain why AGP exist. One thing it gets right is the description of the phenomenon. One thing it gets wrong is the whole idea of paraphilias which I find moralistic and unscientific. AGP as a motive for transition is not something I care about since I'm not likely to go that route. Transition has only ever been an erotic fantasy for me which fits with the AGP model.

[Swimtran]

+1 @LilSissyStevie Same for me!

It's been a confusing ride for me over the years, and I thought I had myself figured out until some recent upheavals. What I had concluded was that the idea of being a woman is a sexual trigger for me. My fantasies all revolve around being a woman. When I make love to my wife, I imagine what it must feel like for her. I worship women out of admiration and envy. The thought of transitioning is incredibly arousing. However, I don't feel like I'm a woman in a man's body. I feel perfectly comfortable in male mode. I don't want anybody to know about my feminine fantasies. Therefore, I think transitioning would be a terrible and self-destructive choice for me. Fantasizing about it, though, is really, really fun.

From what I understand of it, that lines me up with the definition of AGP. While some people object to it, I find it comforting to know that my situation has been observed and documented in other people. I realize that this label can be mis-used to prevent people from actualizing their true gender identity, and that's the main reason many people object to it. However, this shoe fits me (although perhaps not perfectly), so I'm going to wear it; protesting that this can't possibly be a real thing is just as destructive as mis-using it for nefarious purposes.

By the way, I've seen a sex therapist in the last 6 months, and she never used the word Autogynephile, which is Kryptonite these days.

[Teresa]

Stevie,
To me AGP exists because of the way my Cding started, I have contacted Anne Lawrence and others, I have sent them my CDing history and they conclude I'm a classic example of to give it's full title ," a Non-homosexual TG with AGP. If paraphilias worry you then you have the same concerns with GD. Much of crossdressing is unscientific, we all know what happens with our brain chemistry but we are all individual and what triggers the chemistry in one person could be totally different in another. Anne Lawrence herself was a TG with AGP her overwhelming need to be seen as a woman still lead her to transition. Another example is Dierdre McCloskey , both have written autobiographies . I know now why I feel the way I do , like them I don't feel in the wrong body but the overwhelming need to be seen and accepted as a woman has finally explained the gut feeling I've had since my CDing started.



Ressie,
You could also read some comments that CDing is an abomination and the unfortunate ones be put away in a mental institution, do you feel mentally disturbed enough to be locked away because of your CDing, I certainly don't with my Cding with or without AGP. Some comments made about TSs can be just as scathing.

Whether members accept AGP or not is maybe not as important as dealing with the effects of it or GD has on you ! I personally feel I need to move into a totally accepting situation so I can dress full time to see how it affects me, being in a DADT situation isn't going to provide that answer, I may then need to start hormones to see if it achieves a balance in me, how my wife will deal with all that and possibly see more obvious female traits appearing I can't say. Whatever is driving me isn't going to go away, I have to accept it's got to happen .

[ClosetED]

In my post, I hoped to move away from labels to the concepts behind them, but gave labels as a guide.
Tossing around abbreviations and terms makes the reader see the post with the emotional baggage they carry about the label. If they hate the term AGP as it was used by one person, then seeing it written by someone who meant a different meaning, the original intent does not come thru.
I also see myself having a lot of truth in loving the idea of having myself seen as feminine (aka as a woman) but no sexual interest in men and I consider myself a man. So that hopefully explains my point of view without using AGP, TG, TS, LGBT, CD, TV, etc.
Hugs, Ellen

[Teresa]

Ellen,
I'm not sure I understand your reply , with a question like the one posed in the opening thread to give a truthful answer the labels are important , we dress for different reasons and to some there is a sexual element, without labels how do you explain the differences. If you don't differentiate we will all be tarred with the same brush and then members will be upset about that .

[NicoleScott]

Teresa, I'm not a label-hater, but "tarred with the same brush" confirms my first post - that some people want different labels to distance themselves from pleasure dressers. Deriving sexual excitement from crossdressing is not an all-or-nothing deal. For some, it's a major aspect but for others it's not. And when it is, it's private, and nobody needs to know the details. As Doc and I (and maybe others) have posted, when we go out in public, there's nothing sexual about it. If you wear the clothes, you crossdress, according to most sources. No motive required.

[Teresa]

Nicole,
I have to admit the sexual part isn't evident when I go out, OK I flirt with girls. Privately I do find the the sexual component an annoying distraction at times, especially when other members say they virtually lost the need years ago. I did ask in the TS section about what happens to their needs when the T level does drop ? The answer I received away from the forum was inconclusive, about 50% found their dressing needs diminished and smaller number virtually stopped but even in those figures most went on to transition. Like me and some others the sexual component is only part of the story but then that's how my CDing started, that is when my GD and AGP started the combination of events has made me what I am. It's taken far too long to come to that conclusion, now I have to deal with it and move on .

[LilSissyStevie]

Teresa,
You might be interested in this post on AGP (https://thirdwaytrans.com/2015/03/10/on-agp/). His take is that AGP involves two systems: the lust system and the attachment system. This corresponds with Nicole's idea of pleasure dressers and identity dressers. It can be conceptualized as two different spectrums both of which are involved in AGP. In my case, the lust component is strong and the attachment component is weak. I count myself lucky in that regard even though AGP has caused me some sexual compatibility problems. The mix can change over time. The typical trajectory of AGP seems to be where the lust system becomes weaker and the attachment system grows stronger. It's very common on this forum to read posts where it "started out" sexual and over time became about "just being me." With me, the attachment component has atypically grown weaker and the lust component ebbs and flows with no predictable pattern but has also generally grown weaker with age.

Also, my problem with the idea of paraphilias isn't emotional, it's philosophical. I would rather be called a pervert than a paraphiliac for the simple reason that if they call me a pervert I know they are coming from a moralistic point of view. And I know that my morals can beat up their morals. But paraphilias are based on the pseudo-Darwinian idea that any sexual arousal or activity that doesn't lead to or result in procreative activity is somehow "unnatural." It wasn't that long ago that masturbation, oral sex, and homosexuality were considered to be paraphilias but they became "normal" after some political agitation. The fact that these sexual activities can become magically OK because of changing attitudes makes the whole idea of paraphilias absurd. The only criteria for judging a sexual activity as good or bad should be whether or not there is a unwilling victim - not how unusual or popular it is.

[CONSUELO]

" But paraphilias are based on the pseudo-Darwinian idea that any sexual arousal or activity that doesn't lead to or result in procreative activity is somehow "unnatural." "

I have read a lot about evolution and natural selection and have never seen this connection before. I believe the strong association of sexual activity and procreation is a religious device. I agree with you that sexual activity for pleasure or for procreation is a purely natural human activity and we should not be ashamed or defensive about it. For me the sexual arousal component was very strong when I was younger. It is still strong now but is overlaid with a wonderful feeling of comfort and the pleasure of dressing and looking like a female. This is the "attachment" system you talk about.

[Teresa]

Stevie,
It's the first time I've seen AGP associated in this way, it makes sense. I would say the shift is now in the attachment side but while the T level remains high the lust side isn't far behind.
I'm not going to concern myself whether some consider me a pervert or suffering from a paraphilia, questioning morals in these circumstances doesn't really help and it doesn't help me find answers worrying about those labels. My sexual activity remains in my own home, since the menopause my wife has no interest in me in an intimate way,( that's aside from my CDing ) I will admit I don't like my life going full circle but I'm still a functioning male what choices do I have ? Again I raise the question of what happens when my T level does finally fade, does my need to dress fade with it or will the need to transition become stronger ?

Darwin was more concerned with animal behaviour than human, his comments about sexual activity were more connected with species evolution .

I feel an AGP thread should be started , as members are now prepared to talk about it calmly and sensibly , it's good to see the comments on the connections that appear when viewed from the AGP perspective .

[Desiree2bababe]

Definite Transvestite here, just love that word!

[LilSissyStevie]

Consuelo, Teresa,

This is why I say pseudo-Darwinism. I think that when the scientific minded world lost faith in religion they weren't ready to throw out all the rules and regulations and beliefs that went along with it. So being possessed by demons became mental illness, sexual sins became paraphilias and other sins became crimes. That's all slowly changing but many superstitions remain. I don't spend a lot of time worrying about this but I do acknowledge it. I'm not against religion, BTW, I just like to be clear on what is a belief and what is a provable fact.

[ReineD]

Maybe you could steer us to some articles to confirm that autogynephilia isn't a mental disorder or mental illness. There must be a lot of fake news out there because search results point to articles saying that it is a mental illness :(

First, a bit of Mental Illness 101. Bear with me here, it’s only a short list. While there are over 200 classified forms of mental illness, these are the major categories:

1. Anxiety Disorders (phobias, panic disorders OCD, PTSD, etc)
2. Mood Disorders (depression, bipolar disorder, etc)
3. Schizophrenia/Psychotic Disorders (delusions, hallucinations, etc)
4. Dementias (Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s disease, head traumas, etc)
5. Eating Disorders (Anorexia Nervosa, Bulimia, binge or over-eating)
6. Impulse control and addiction disorders (sexual compulsions, internet addiction, compulsive shopping, hoarding, pyromania, kleptomania, etc)
7. Personality disorders (paranoia, antisocial personality disorder, narcissism, avoidant personality disorder, etc)

You can see that many of these conditions are not that unusual.

Also, everything is on a scale. For example, most people have experienced anxiety and depression at times, but not to the point of needing medical help for it. Or, a person can shoplift once or twice without it being considered a mental illness (kleptomania, an inability to stop shoplifting). Or, people can enjoy porn without being consumed by it. Likewise, many people enjoy alcohol without becoming alcoholic.

The same holds true of sexually gratifying behaviors. If they produce pleasure without having a negative impact on a person’s functioning (personal relationships, work and productivity, social interactions), then they are not an issue and are not considered a mental illness.

In other words, the behavior is considered a mental illness only when it impedes normal functioning. So, to everyone who enjoys the sexual aspect of the CDing, don’t worry about it, unless you’ve reached the point of social isolation because of it, or your primary relationship has been negatively impacted by it. Don’t get bogged down by a clinical name.

[Ressie]

Thanks Reine. I was hoping that you would jump in because you've demonstrated knowledge on this topic in the past. The 1-7 list is a great synopsis of psychological problems. And like you implied, it seems almost everyone has a slight mental or emotional problem.

[whorton]

It's interesting to see the wide disparity regarding the words "Transvestite" and "Crossdresser." Not to mention people's willingness to embrace or reject them all together.

In my case I am 57 and have been a paramedic in the 70's and a bachelors prepared RN for 24 years. When I was hitting puberty, my parents talk was substituted by the infamous, Dr. David Rubens, Seminel work (if you will) *everthing you wanted to know about sex, but were afraid to ask."
It certainly answered lots of questions and gave me one heck of a leg up on everyone else, all the way through high school.

It gave me a good understanding of crossdressing and used the term "transvestite." Over the years, the clinical term came to gain a connotation of sexual perversity. As such, I freely admit that I crossdress. It is a word that accurately describes what I do. There is an occasional twitch of "Transvestic fetishism" when buying or trying on new cloths, BUT, it is not the primary reason I enjoy wearing cloths designed for the opposite sex.

As with most, I started with a tremendous sexual rush that mostly burned out by 30. (I started at 13 or so in 1974). I quickly discovered that underdressing did two things:

1. It allowed me to thumb my nose at cultural norms of men wearing women's clothing.. And in the process normalized the behavior over the years, which causes item 2.
2. When underdressing, totally dressing or stealth dressing in public gives a feeling of relaxation as though I have a pass on societal expectations...and I do, I essentially gave it to myself.

It amazes me how many disavow labels or detest the words. Crossdressing is the word that describes in our language what I do... If someone asks, "Yes, I crossdress...because I like wearing the cloths and am not engaged in some perverse sexual stunt or to 'get off'"
Usually I omit the brief explanation .

[ReineD]

And like you implied, it seems almost everyone has a slight mental or emotional problem.

Yes, of course we all experience mental and emotional problems at one time or another. We are imperfect human beings, and experiencing occasional problems is not an indication of mental illness. It only becomes a mental illness if it takes over and it prevents us from functioning properly. So, AGP (or any other sexual proclivity) would only be a mental illness if the CDer found himself incapable of working, incapable of being in a relationship if this is what he wanted, and/or incapable of interacting socially with others because all he wanted to do was to spend time alone dressing and getting off.

I do not consider that non-traditional sexual habits, if they are enjoyed occasionally, are mental or emotional problems. Also, even if the sexual habit is considered "normal" (sex with an opposite-sex adult), it would still be problematic if the person needed to engage in it constantly, to the point where he couldn't function at work, in a relationship, or socially. It's not a question of what gets people off, it's a question of balance between one specific type of pleasure and life's commitments and obligations together with other pleasures.


It's interesting to see the wide disparity regarding the words "Transvestite" and "Crossdresser."

Right. Everyone has their own particular take on what these words mean, and so it's pointless to try to reach a consensus. I think it's best for a person to describe what he does, rather than trying to assign a label to it. For example, "I dress occasionally and once in a while, it is sexual for me", instead of trying to pin it down to "I am a crossdresser" or "I am a transvestite".

[Devone]

Consuelo, my dressing was a total turn-on for me and the sexual release was wonderful .I wish I knew some one who could push the right buttons for me .Devone

[Kelly DeWinter]

Just posting this to give some background for terminology.

AGP AutogynephiliaClassical Definition - Blanchard's transsexualism typology, also Blanchard autogynephilia theory (BAT) and Blanchard's taxonomy, is a psychological typology of male-to-female (MtF) transsexualism created by Ray Blanchard through the 1980s and 1990s, building on the work of his colleague, Kurt Freund. Blanchard divided trans women into two different groups: homosexual transsexuals, whom Blanchard says seek sex reassignment surgery to romantically and sexually attract (ideally heterosexual) men, and "autogynephilic transsexuals" who purportedly are sexually aroused at the idea of having a female body. The typology suggests distinctions between MtF transsexuals, but does not speculate on the causes of transsexualism. The distinction is a recurring theme in scholarly literature on transsexualism

[sarah378619]

I have been dressing since 7. Dressing has always been comforting and exciting. I would say I am a Transgendered crossdresser. I have a very strong feeling of being female. But not enough to transistion.
Sarah

[Rachel Toni]

Interesting topic and made me look back at my story.

I used to (occasionally) dress in some of my mum’s clothes before I reached puberty – usually just underwear and a petticoat – and I remember enjoying it, feeling excited but there was no overt sexual element. When I reached puberty, I was very naïve on biology so didn’t really understand the way the human body worked – certainly didn’t understand what peers were on about when it came to the things teenage boys talked about.

As such, I started to get more aroused when dressing up, but not really understanding what was happening. Without wanting to get lewd, it dawned on me reading this thread that my first genuine “awakening" occurred when I dressed-up fully for the first time, probably in my early teens, from head to toe (including make-up and my mum’s heels).

Not really fussed if it is an ism, a fetish, a disorder or anything else. I’ve been dressing up for the past 20 years – I am straight, married, mortgage, job, etc. and it’s never affected my life. I still love dressing up and, as my first "moment" was dressed as a woman, it also continues to provide sexual gratification.

[laura.lapinski]

Swimtran, I think you echo my feelings and experiences wholeheartedly. Thanks for your contribution.

[Teresa]

Kelly,
Thanks for outlining Blanchard's work. This is part of my problem so I dug deeper and asked questions and was given information about TGs with AGP, this part was the expansion on Blanchards work because some people still had the need to transition even though they weren't TSs. There are two distinct sides , homosexual and nonhomosexual, it's important to think of them as separate , it makes a big difference to me as a nonhomosexual. The other important point is the sexual element is only part of the equation, to some it doesn't come onto it at all, unlike me.

[Becky Blue]

Julia Serano has done a lot of work debunking AGP http://www.juliaserano.com/TSetiology.html she has also written an excellent book. One can google debunking AGP and find a myriad of information too.

[ReineD]

Becky, this is true. People on both sides of an argument can write convincing arguments. But, the topmost argument, in my view, is always whether the description of a condition rings true to the person who experiences what is being described. There have been lots of CDers who have said that they have, indeed, experienced sexual excitement over the thought of being a woman. Whether you want to call this AGP or something else is up to you, but it does not take away from the fact that the condition exists.

For those of you who want a breakdown of what autogynephilia means, it is AUTO (self) - GYNE (female) - PHILIA (love of, or sexual excitement).

[Becky Blue]

Reine, not for one moment disagreeing that some CD's get a sexual turn on with the thought of dressing as a woman, I was once like that many years ago. People are free of course to chose what they think they are but Blanchard Lawrence and co are out of sync with most modern thinking.

[Teresa]

Becky,
I have read that debunking article, if you choose to find fault with something right or wrong you are entitled to your opinion. I have said that Blanchard did upset some people but surprisingly many are using the basic principal on the basis of their current work and I have found more articles to back it up, the only difference is they don't shout it from the rooftops.
You appear to think I'm brainwashed with all this, as Reine says if you feel it fits your circumstances then go with it. As I have said before it ties in with how my CDing started , nothing else has explained it especially now I have the information on TGs with AGP .

I still feel it's wrong to call another opinion " bunk or trash " my gut feeling tells me it's right, I can now move forward and try and deal what the consequences of it, nothing else has opened that door for me.

Reine,
As I understood it AGP breaks down as loving yourself as a woman, again updated work has shown AGP is not all about sex, some people with it don't have the sexual content , they want to be seen and accepted as a woman and that's it .

[ReineD]

People are free of course to chose what they think they are but Blanchard Lawrence and co are out of sync with most modern thinking.

When you say "modern thinking", you are alluding to modern theories. Theories do indeed evolve and as mentioned, excellent arguments can be made pro or against evolving theories. But, outside of the theory is "modern" actual experience. If a number of CDers currently say they get a sexual kick out of the CDing, then are you telling me that, because they don't fit into a theory that someone has developed, they are wrong in their own personal assessments?

If, on the other hand, you are wanting to debunk the idea that AGP is a motive for transition (as it was at first described by Blanchard), then I agree. This was debunked long ago. I do not believe that transsexuals transition for the motive of sexual gratification. But, this does not take away from the fact that many non-transitioners (CDers) do experience sexual excitement over their own presentation as women and that further, AGP is an accurate term (see the bottom of my post #100) to describe what they experience.

[kimberly c]

I am one of those Cds that each time I dress in lingerie or even in any type of female clothes its always sexual excitment. The turn on is thinking that I am a female, the sexual part has been with me since I first started dressing many years ago. Any time I dress I find that my panties always end up being a little damp!!

[Becky Blue]

Teresa, as I said in an earlier post people should be free to believe whatever they want about themselves. I posted some of the counter views to AGP so that some of the people reading this thread could read about both views. I am all for information.

Reine, I am most definitely agreeing with you. I was most definitely not saying that because people don't fit into a theory their feelings are invalid. I was actually trying to say that perhaps some theories are built around how people feel/behave and maybe the research and science behind them is a bit soft.

[ReineD]

Oh OK. I thought that when you said,


Julia Serano has done a lot of work debunking AGP ...

... you were agreeing with Julia Serano that AGP should be debunked. I did click on your link, but it is a mass of articles that would take forever to read and I'm not quite sure what Serano is saying exactly - whether she maintains that nobody ever experiences AGP ever, or that when transsexuals transition, they do not do so for fetish reasons.


So we agree then ... AGP is alive and well among many individuals here, but it is not a motive when transsexuals transition, as was initially proposed by Blanchard?

[Lacey CD]

From the first time I slipped my mother's peignoir over my head and let it slide down over my body, slowly putting on the matching robe and tying each sheer tie with care, I knew this was something big. As I hesitantly turned towards the mirror and got my first glimpse of myself, I saw something I'll never forget.I Felt something so strong as to literally make me dizzy and dare I say swoon. Was it sexual? Yes!! Was it something more as well? Yes again, although at the time I had no understanding of what that was! As I grew and matured my dressing did too. It isn't so much a sexual thrill today as it is a sensual experience. The fabric, the lace, the swirl...I still swoon a bit, especially when I wear something new and pretty for the first time! While I would love to dress more androgynous in my work a day, it would be impractical and cause way too many issues in both my private and public life. I think for me, keeping it more on the sexual side is almost a stop gap to preventing my fem side from infiltrating too far into my every day life. I've been there and done that, didn't end well....

[donnalee]

Most of the problem with these terms is the generalizations and connotations attached to them. As transvestite has a more clinical sound to it, it connotes something wrong or diseased and is considered negtative. The term ,however, has no sexual aspects connected with it unless someone with a greater ego than intelligence or perception defines it that way and someone with even lesser intelligence takes that definition at face value.
The fact that this organization put it out under their letterhead makes them suspect and at best a poor source for information.

[irene9999]

A little bit of both I guess, I do sometimes get sexual gratification from dressing but I can also just dress because I like the fashion and how it looks on me. Also, when I picture "transvestite" I think Rocky Horror Picture Show so I'd say I'm more of a CDer

[Amelie]

I am not cd or transvestite. I don't get sexual satisfaction from dressing.

I am a woman and the only time I dress for sexual reasons is when I use to walk the streets for men. I use to dress for men's sexual satisfaction.

[Kendra Sue]

Yes mine too my panties do end up. A lttle damp

[brenda girl]

I am like any women, when I get in the mood, i like to dress in something nice and do it

[TiffanyTgirl]

I remember at age 4 that girl's clothes were cooler than boys, docks vs tights, sneakers vs Mary Jane's, then after i started wearing them, as a teen, it became more sexual. As an adult, I feel that it is just an extension of me. No different than wearing a favorite team jersey.

[Sandin Meknickers]

Well checking out my ass maybe for a second and giving something a twang. Other than that, only if it's sexy time any way.

[SometimesKairi]

Well checking out my ass maybe for a second and giving something a twang. Other than that, only if it's sexy time any way.

Haha I think you and I will get along very well!
Our humour is similar

As for the post...in the past yes, now. No.
I am happy as a girl but not particularly turned on by being one (most of the time anyway)