Hard time finding sympathy

[Laurana]

It may just be me who feels like this but I truly have a hard time finding sympathy for those that lie/hide their dressing from their SO. They do what they do, get caught, and are flabbergasted when their SO is pissed off.

"She doesn't trust me anymore". Well.........you don't really deserve that trust anymore.


"Make her go to counseling" people will say. Well......it's really not her that needs to go as she did nothing wrong.

You lied not her.

Anyways. That's just my opinion. Like it or not.

[Joni T]

I concur 1000%.
Jon

[Rachael Leigh]

I agree lying to our spouses is full of consequences most not good, I've done things in the past and tried to hide but once
found out it never went well.
It's hard I understand revealing oneself to your SO but if you really do love them tell them the truth

[Elizabeth G]

I don't believe people who hide their crossdressing are all "flabbergasted" when their SO's are upset upon discovery. I was agonizing over how and when to tell my SO when I was discovered (say what you will, but it really wasn't intentional).

She was upset/angry/hurt/confused etc. I certainly wasn't surprised by her reaction. I fully understood it and told her so, and I certainly wasn't asking for sympathy.

[Tomara]

And then there are the people who say " I won't tell my wife or s/o because she'd never understand "
How would you know if she would or wouldn't understand if you won't talk to her ?
And how would you feel if she kept a secret from you that affected both your lives.
The best advice is to be honest and open with anyone you're in a relationship with, life is to precious to live lying and hiding your true self.

[Tracii G]

I agree Laurana.
What gets to me are the ones that make it "all about them" and don't even consider their SO's/families feelings at all.
Also the ones that ask for help then do the opposite of what you or any other member suggested then get mad when their SO tosses them out.
I call these types askholes.

[Judy-Somthing]

I am in no way looking for sympathy this is an open forum to share stories and information.
All CD-ers don't necessarily want to hide it but in life sometimes you have to.

For me my wife knew I dressed up now and then prior to us getting married.
It was never thought as something we needed to discuss.
She didn't tell me she didn't like me dressing prior to marriage so I didn't lie to her.

The other day my wife and I and a long discussion about my CD-ing and I reminded her she knew prior to marriage.
She said she thought it was just fooling around and not that I'm a CD-er.

I would say one reason people hide it is because they don't wan't to hurt their family.

[Leslie Langford]

Clearly, you've never done anything that - looking back - you weren't particularly proud of, Laurana, and which allows you to be so judgemental. Let me be the first one here to nominate you for sainthood. The rest of us, sadly, are just flawed human beings trying to muddle through this minefield called "life".

Hindsight is always 20/20, and few things are ever black and white...

[Laura912]

And then everyone can have an opinion, at least in my opinion.

[ginapoodle]

Clearly, you've never done anything that - looking back - you weren't particularly proud of, Laurana, and which allows you to be so judgemental. Let me be the first one here to nominate you for sainthood. The rest of us, sadly, are just flawed human beings trying to muddle through this minefield called "life".

Hindsight is always 20/20, and few things are ever black and white...

Pretty much speaks for me. In the end I did open up to my wife. And I am glad we crossed that bridge. When I met her and we got married I thought that perhaps my CDing would go away. You know the story. I think if I had told her pre-married she might have dumped me. Back then, 30 years ago, there was not much real information out there for spouses, and there was no counseling, and I did not understand myself at all.

[sweetdreams]

In principle I agree with you Laurana, but I'm do have sympathy for those who struggle with coming out to the SO. This is potentially life changing stuff. If you've been in a relationship with someone for 20 years and your CDing starts to push hard, it's going to be a bumpy ride for all involved. This has all the makings of divorce with all of the ugly things that comes along with that.

I could never stay in a relationship that didn't accommodate all parts of me. I just couldn't do it. It's who I am just as CDing is part of who I am. Fortunately I don't seem to attract people to me who are so closed minded as to be unwilling to be flexible. Never had an outright refusal from a GG I was involved with.

[IamWren]

Clearly, you've never done anything that - looking back - you weren't particularly proud of, Laurana, and which allows you to be so judgemental. Let me be the first one here to nominate you for sainthood. The rest of us, sadly, are just flawed human beings trying to muddle through this minefield called "life".

Hindsight is always 20/20, and few things are ever black and white...

Couldn't agree more.

And by the way... I have a glass house I'm willing to sell. Comes with a free pile of rocks for throwing around after you move in.

[Teresa]

Laurana,
If only it was simple as that, none of us are perfect, your comments may fit with some but honesty works both ways. So much of the talk puts our wives and women in general on pedestals . I've found women withhold far more then we know , some of the flak we receive isn't all down to our dressing it's sometimes their issues and shortcomings . We put far too much blame on our CDing for issues we know nothing about.

In my personal circumstances it was down to naivety rather than withholding or lying . I had two GFs that were OK with my dressing so I went into marriage not seeing it as a problem. I couldn't stand the suppression anymore and came out to my wife after twenty years of marriage, I wanted to be totally open and completely honest from that point, but when the DADT wall went up that was the end of those thoughts. Since then it's been a rollercoaster of a ride, but I've finally found what makes me tick.

Does this make me a bad person , I hope not, I tried to do my best as a husband and father, sometime I do look back and wonder how I managed to achieve what I did, when you live it 24/7 from a child.

[Judith96a]

Agree with both Leslie and Gina.
I haven't, yet, come out to my wife. Don't know if i ever can or will. When we got married i genuinely thought that I had quit for good. 25 years later i know better.

P.S. I'm not looking for sympathy. However, a little understanding​would be nice. The kicking from "friends" i can do without!

[Amy Lynn3]

Laurana, your opinion is noted, but the facts are bigger than a mountain as to why people don't come out. Why would a valid reason to not come out by others be less important than an opinion of someone outside the situation ? My point is: it's like one person saying my sins are less than yours, when actually they are all equal.

[Joni T]

I think some of you are missing the point. It's all about HONESTY. Without HONESTY, there can not be a TRUSTING relationship. Without TRUST and HONESTY, the relation can not/will not survive. Honesty and trust, once lost, takes a very long time to be regained, if ever.
Jon

[SheriM]

Laurana, Your opinion that the gurl who hides deserves the wrath she gets when caught is only that, an opinion. Are you assuming that talking is a better option? Are you assuming that you know the spouse better than the CD in hiding? I would offer that not all spouses react the same and that a DADT relationship may be the best option in some cases.
1) If you are a CD and even though you had the best intentions to quit, you find that you are still a CD,
2) If your wife is not very tolerant and has made it clear that she will not accept a crossdressing husband,
Then maybe the ONLY option is one of secrecy. It may not be a good option, but it still may be the best option.
We all weigh the variables and make the best decision we can.

[docrobbysherry]

I found the guilt overwhelming. And, there was the stress of nearly getting caught and realizing eventually I WOULD BE!:doh:

I felt I just HAD to tell her!:sad:

[terza]

it is ironic to dispense judgement, since it is judgement of the bigoted and toxic societies that continues to prove how dangerous they are to cross-dressers and transgenders --there has been 17 deaths in the USA so far for 2017.

[Stacy Darling]

Fair call!

I do however have sympathy!

I don't want any sympathy from anyone, I've fully come out to my wife, doctor, nurse and beautician obviously!

I also cover the left side of my face as that is the side which takes most of the hits!

So I wont lie, YOU CAN TELL BY THE BRUISES!

So some ladies may have a reason to lie!

Stacy

[Jodi]

We had a saying in the army--If you are looking for sympathy, look in the dictionary, you will find it between shit & syphilis

jodi

[Majella St Gerard]

IMO honesty is the best policy. If you keep something like that a secret then they don't know the real you, they fall in love with a charade. When they find out or when they are finally told bout such a big deception they are of course upset and feel betrayed. They were sold a pig in a poke. All trust is lost. Be upfront from the start, if they are not on board then don't start a relationship with them. I would rather be by myself than to be in a relationship based on lies and deception.

[Stephanie_V]

For most CDers, its not a simple thing to just come out and tell a loved one about it IMO. There are social stigmas attached to it. For most of us, simply stopping is not an option either, as it's a part of who we are. Some can go on hiatus but the pink fog is is never truly dissipated. Sometimes keeping a secret is the best solution. The rationals for keeping those secrets are many and the person can convince themselves it's for all the right reasons. As time goes by, the fallout of revealing gets worse and worse.
The way I see it, sympathy many not be warranted in every case, but to say that it's never warranted is kinda ironic from a CDer's point of view. Nothing is ever black and white. This world needs more understanding and less judgment. More empathy and less harshness. That's my two cents anyways :)

[Wen4cd]

I jumped that minefield by telling my wife-to-be while we were still in the early dating stage. Looking back, and seeing the hell that so many here go through with secrecy, I'm very glad I did.

But I can still very much sympathize with someone who can't disclose this, and see how it would get more and more impossible as time goes on. Before you judge them, you should run out to your workplace and make sure every manager, boss, and co-worker gets a good eyeful of you dressed. Make sure every neighbor greets you dressed. Go pick your kids up from school dressed and go to church dressed.

Essentially, every relationship you have with every other person on earth is mask-to-mask, persona-to-persona. It's just a fact of human nature.

[sometimes_miss]

The problem we have here, is that it assumes all wives are perfect innocent little angels. We get married 'for better or for worse'. But when worse comes up, the ladies want to bail out, AND they want us to pay for it. THAT'S the issue many of us have. Sure, they're upset when THEY find out something they don't like. But when we do, we're expected to just 'man up' and deal with it. History of mental illness? Deal with it. Credit problems? Deal with it. HPV? Deal with it. Income tax problems? Deal with it. Yes, WE'RE supposed to deal with it all. But not them. Nope, they get a pass. Because they're entitled to get everything that they expected. Us, no. We're not entitled to anything. We get divorced, we get nothing. They're entitled to being supported to the life they're accustomed to. We're entitled to, again, nothing. I do get very tired of hearing about how the other half has it so hard; my life hasn't been a walk in the park, either, I had to deal with a passive/aggressive wife with a history of major depression AND SHE DIDN'T TELL ME ABOUT THOSE, EITHER, but I'm automatically the bad one? Enough. Life is difficult.

Nobody's perfect.

So your white knight wound up riding up in tattered coveralls on a donkey, instead of a majestic steed and a suit of armor? Deal with it, ladies. Make the best of it. He's not a cheater, he's not a thief, he's not a robber; he's not a con man, he's not a guy who comes home and beats you. He's not a murderer, an assassin, or a serial killer, or some despot who kills his own citizens. He simply likes to wear a dress once in a while. It's not a big deal. Keep things in perspective, please.

Rant over, thank you.

And, DR Laurana, that's MY opinion, like it or not.

[Pumped]

My wife found some of my stash a couple years ago. It about ended the marriage. She refused to deal with it. I was told no female clothing or she was gone. Now other than CD'ing we get along great. I purged and behaved myself for maybe a year, then tried to talk to her and she would not accept it. Now we all know the chances of stopping, you can just stop breathing, correct? So for me it has come to me having a small very portable stash that gets rotated if I find something I really need.

[Dana44]

HeHe He,, Yeah I went through a lot of women. in my life as I told them. But now I found a woman who loves me either way unconditionally. They say it takes a while to find your soul mate. But it took me sixty years and two marriages. I told every one and well. A lot of heartbreak as most people are bigoted. But I agree with you Laurana. No sympathy in my life and I knew quite a few women. It was a dance that I had to do.

[karrin]

well said, S. Miss be safe karrin

[Laurana]

Clearly, you've never done anything that - looking back - you weren't particularly proud of, Laurana, and which allows you to be so judgemental. Let me be the first one here to nominate you for sainthood. The rest of us, sadly, are just flawed human beings trying to muddle through this minefield called "life".

Hindsight is always 20/20, and few things are ever black and white...

Oh no. I've done plenty of stupid stuff in my life. Never lied to my SO over something so potentially devastating though.

Yes. Telling them straight out BEFORE they get too emotionally invested is ALWAYS the best thing to do. If you don't think they'll be able to handle it then they clearly aren't for you.

Again, my opinion. Like it or not.

[sweetdreams]

All good points sometimes_miss, but this is why I feel it's so important to get this out before things go too far, certainly before marriage. If the SO is unable or unwilling to accept us for what we are, this is when it should come out, and not after some number of years into the marriage. If your SO is all of what you portrayed in your rant, nothing will bring it out faster then her having to deal with our crossdressing. In a way our CDing is a blessing. It's like a lightning rod for emotionally shallow, selfish women. We shouldn't waste our time on them.

[Jenny22]

Interesting post and well thought out replies. I won't go into my life's CD details, but I would offer this ... Until you have walked in the shoes (stilettos?) of every other person who thinks differently then you, and know their lives and spouses / SOs as well as they, you really do not have the right to criticize what they do or do not do nor why. No two people or relationships are the same as yours. That's just MHO.

[NancySue]

Great thread and some interesting responses. I told my "to be" wife, before the "I do's", expecting her to bolt to the nearest door. She didn't. We had many long talks, did a lot of reading, etc., but came up with no answers as to "why". She accepted my CDing. Two of the main reasons were my courage and honesty which included the risk of consequences in being honest with her. Because of my experience, I have little sympathy for those who put their own ego, fear, guilt and, most important..dishonesty as being more important than respect for their wife or SO...very selfish. No wonder they have difficulties when the truth comes out. What if the tables were turned. How would they feel? I also believe the acceptance has to be unconditional...mine is and life is wonderful. Taking the risk and being honest was the best thing I ever did.

[Melissa in SE Tn]

Thank you Leslie & Sue for saying what I would like to scream at the thread poster! For many of us prior to or early in our marriages, the need to cd was not present or was simply an entertaining fantasy. Things change, people change & what was once a passing fancy becomes gender dysphoria. Sorry to rain on your sympathy soapbox, but you don't have any idea what many of us have gone through / continue to go through. I truly understand what spouses go through once the reveal has been made late in a marriage. Hell, after years of counseling , I know all too well the plight of my wife dealing with the reveal fallout. I have always been honest with my spouse & more so when the need to cd surfaced 3 years ago. Candidly, considering the marital aftermath of my honest reveal talk, in retrospect, both my wife & I would be a lot happier if I had just kept my cding a secret. Honesty may always be the best policy, but sometimes it's aftermath is more harmful than healthy.

[Stacy Darling]

We had a saying in the army--If you are looking for sympathy, look in the dictionary, you will find it between shit & syphilis

jodi
Go There!

[Lana Mae]

I told my wife before we got married. She said there would only be one woman in this relationship! I married her anyways(I really loved her!). We had two wonderful kids and 34+ years together. I wore panties maybe 4 times in that 34+ years and purged them right away! I never shared it with her or even tried to bring it up! I knew my wife and my situation. When she passed away,about 1-2 months later the pink fog set in like a tidal wave!!! I immediately went to K Mart and bought panties(the wrong size! LOL) I was able to keep it away for most of my marriage but that does not say that others could and wives are all different! Just my $.02! And regardless my sympathy to everyone and your situation regardless if it is good or bad because we are all afflicted by this wonderful hard wired deviation! LOL Hugs to all Lana Mae

[XemmaX]

Whilst i don't thinking hiding something this from your SO is remotely a good idea in the long run. As also just personally with holding a part of yourself would in my opinion would just be emotionally so draining. That being said i also get it, crossdressing for many especially older people on this forum was a very taboo thing and frowned upon in society and to some extent still is. Also love makes you do some weird things too. SO i get many try and repress it thinking that they can shake the desire. But then the desire for many can grow with age and one cannot repress it anymore then end out telling. i sympathize to a limit especially with the older members but i still think it's best to be open about it early as possible.

[Leslie Langford]

...Yes. Telling them straight out BEFORE they get too emotionally invested is ALWAYS the best thing to do...

Sounds great in theory, but please, help us out here: It would be most helpful if you could elaborate for us just what exactly your understanding of "too emotionally invested" is. In other words, where is the line in the sand, the trigger point, the signal, the clue etc. that will tell us that NOW is the right time for full disclosure to our potential mates and to initiate "The Talk".

- Before we even ask our intended out for the first date?

- After the second, third, or fourth dates and after we've gotten to know each other reasonably well but are still sussing each other out, although it seems by that point that we might have a future together?

- What clues should we look for to see if our potential mate might possibly be amenable to our crossdressing, or, alternatively - have a violent negative reaction to it? Drop some subtle or not-so-subtle hints with double meanings that would provide a safe exit, or carpe diem - go or broke and appear at her door in full gurl mode one day or else invite her to accompany us to a drag show?

- Suggest that we go en femme if invited to a Halloween party together, and then knocking her socks off by being too good in our presentation? Hmm...something's up here for sure...

- Do we mention this as a "By the way..." while we're down on one knee proposing to her with engagement ring in hand?

So many questions, so many variables, so many uncertainties, but of course in your world, one solution - and one size - fits all. What a happy, uncomplicated place it must be...

We hear from many CDers here that their wives or SO's would have been just as happy if their partner were not a crossdresser and would likely have walked away given their 'druthers (typically, the DADT crowd) if they'd have had advance knowledge of this. On the other hand, many of those same wives or SO's then still decided to stay in the relationship because they realized that their partners' other good qualities far exceeded that one negative (present company included). Too early a disclosure would potentially have driven them into the arms of a "real man", and given the current divorce statistics (around 50% of marriages), that likely wouldn't have worked out too well for them either.

How do you account for that under your black-and-white "full early disclosure" scenario?

[Kelly DeWinter]

Laurana;

Why do you hold such a hypocritical attitude ? In your post "Been gone so long" you lied to your ex at the hospital about the female clothes you wore into the hospital. I can understand if your attitude has changed, but at least have the kindness to say so instead of coming across as judgmental.

[Laurana]

Sounds great in theory, but please, help us out here: It would be most helpful if you could elaborate for us just what exactly your understanding of "too emotionally invested" is. In other words, where is the line in the sand, the trigger point, the signal, the clue etc. that will tell us that NOW is the right time for full disclosure to our potential mates and to initiate "The Talk".

- Before we even ask our intended out for the first date?
?

First date is the right time. Plain and simple.


Kelly DeWinter: My ex had no need to know because she is my ex. My dressing started long after we had gotten divorced and quite frankly it's not for her to know since we are no longer together.

There's no judgement. Just an opinion if you lie you deserve what you get.

[Becky Blue]

If only life were THAT simple Laurana, firstly who says that people that don't tell are shocked when their SO is upset? Who says that the SO needs counselling? If you simply read these boards you will find many stories that did not end that way, you will find some with happy endings and others with sad endings. Relationships are not that simplistic as you seem to think. There are many examples of people who have chosen not to tell for very good and valid reasons.

The reality of being a Tperson is that what you are and how you feel may change over time, so then in your simplistic judgmental world how does that work? What if when you first meet you are a very occasional CD and think I will stop when I am married? Do you tell your future SO then? or do you tell her later when your feelings change? not so simple is it?

Perhaps you should not be so judgemental of people without hearing the facts.

[Kelly DeWinter]

Laurana;

From your "Hello from South Dakota" thread ...... Hi all my name is Ken. I'm 45 years old and have been crossdressing on a more or less regular basis for a couple of years now. It all started as a teenager. ............ Then it stopped for years. I got divorced about 10 years ago and started dressing casually a few years after that. ............I've only told one person that I'm a crossdresser and it was one of the most relieving days of my life. "

These are your words.

So lying to YOUR ex wife while YOU are married is OK while you are married and lying to her afterwards is OK, but that makes it OK to be less sympathetic to others ?

I'm not trying to start a flamewar, I'm just pointing out that what you say does not match what you do.

So why go to this length in 3 different different posts to make people feel worse about what they may have gone through.

Sympathy is a pretty nice quality to have, and being able to receive sympathy is a hard quality to cultivate.

[Laurana]

*sigh* Kelly, Kelly, Kelly,.......When it stopped(which wasn't any more than wearing a girlfriends undies while masturbating) it was something that never even crossed my mind. I never considered it as anything other than what it was. But...they knew that part as I told them straight out what I'd be doing with them.

So I never lied to my ex whilst married as I wasn't into dressing at that time. And again, she had no reason to know after.

[Terri Andrews]

I shared this with wife to be before we were married . Supportive then and now .
I understand it is not easy to share ,but worked out for us .
I am getting ready to tell my children , I hope it works out as well with them.

[Becky Blue]

*sigh* Kelly, Kelly, Kelly,.......When it stopped(which wasn't any more than wearing a girlfriends undies while masturbating) it was something that never even crossed my mind. I never considered it as anything other than what it was. But...they knew that part as I told them straight out what I'd be doing with them.

So I never lied to my ex whilst married as I wasn't into dressing at that time. And again, she had no reason to know after.

My point exactly Laurana, there was no need to tell your wife. Lets presume you stayed married, things change you go from a fetish part dresser to wanting to dress properly. At what stage do you tell your wife? and when you do and it comes out that you were doing things before do you think your mrs will feel lied to? Seriously???

[Stephanie_V]

I disagree that first date is the right time. Nothing like 'I had a good time tonight, can I call you tomorrow? Oh, btw I enjoy crossdressing". Or maybe "Hi, I'm Steve and I'm a crossdresser. Are you ready to go to dinner?"

[Becky Blue]

Stephanie, why not make it even simpler arrive on the first date as Stephanie that will ensure you don't even waste the time of the first date unless she is VERY accepting :)

[LaurenDeHart]

Terri

Please let us know how it goes if you don't mind. I have similar thoughts running through my brain.

Lauren

[AllieSF]

No sympathy, tell on first date! Laurana will you be there to offer more than sympathy if someone tells that first date and then that first date gets really weirded out and tells everyone about her first date with a crossdresser and then the word gets around and that poor, or wise in your opinion, CD loses friends family and employment because they blindly followed your sage advice? Will you help that person financially, or will you make up some lame excuse that the CD should have known more about that first date, including their acceptance or not of CDing prior to even making that first date?

I also agree that the best and highly recommended process would be to tell before entering into a long term relationship, but I respectfully defer to the person's better knowledge of their own situation, which I do not know. I will not rub their nose in their future problems if they don't. We are all adults here and whether we want to or not have to live with our own decisions. That is called taking responsibility. I am glad that you are the perfect person and did the correct thing by telling. However, I strongly dislike your attitude toward others whose situation you have no idea about. Do, some overly lament the mess that they got themselves into by not telling at the right time, or in the right way, yes. But the majority here do not cry to much and blame others. They explain and directly or indirectly seek support in how to deal with their current situation. Are you also believer that the SO has every right to explode and treat their CD partner like garbage?

Now, you may not have intended the kick back that you are getting, but as some wise person in the first post to this thread stated very clearly and then defended so many times before my post, I have no sympathy for what you are getting handed back to you. This is a support site. The truth is good, but how you presented your truth is not!

[Kelly DeWinter]

Laurana;

It's really OK if you don't believe you lied or that if you don't believe that crossdressing can start with underwear and can progress to to full presentation and then to transition. By your standards the TG spectrum is just a Unicorn Myth.

What is clear is that you feel that under certain circumstances that YOU decide s applicable to YOU, its OK to hide and NOT be open when it suits you. BUT even with all of that no one else in your opinion has a right to feel the same way.

I and probably others, would feel more comfortable if you would just say that you have changed your views, which is nicer then saying you have no sympathy.

PS. Since this is the third thread you have started on the same topic, it makes me wonder why you have such a problem with this ? Its not like you have said you are in a current relationship where its even a possible issue at this point. So it's either a past relationship or current relationships that is making this a sore subject.

[Jean 103]

It must be nice going thru life being all knowing. Knowing who you are and where you are going. But seriously, I can only speak for myself. First every TG person I have met is different. Not everyone knows that they are TG from an early age or when they get married. I was married for thirty years and didn’t start exploring this side till the last couple years of my marriage. For the last year I have been living as Jean a cross dressing TG person. I have only come to grips recently that this is who I am.
I don’t read or comment on these threads anymore. Why? If you see a train wreck coming what do you do? Say something or just stand by and watch. Just standing and doing nothing is not an option for me. Meddling in people’s privet lives is a big no-no for me too. That’s why I choose option #3, wearing blinders, don’t look.

[Maria 60]

It's very easy to talk about this now at this day and age, but let's go back 30-40 years when there was no internet and I didn't know what it was called what I was doing. But I did think once married it was going to be gone, well 2 weeks later I put on her pantyhose one morning. At that point I now knew it wasn't going anywhere and this is more serious then I thought and I wasn't going to live the rest of my life as a fugitive. I took the biggest chance of my life that same night, I took a roll of the dice on a traditional Italian girl and was more then ready to except I was going to lose my high school sweetheart. That night I told her from the first time I put on my sisters pantyhose all to that same morning that I put on hers and told her I would understand that I wasn't fair to her and understand if she wanted to leave. I was lucky that she asked me the few typical questions and told me lets she where this goes. It's over forty years now and it wasn't always smooth but I sometimes think to myself how life would have been different if I never told her or if she found out later. She told me that it wasn't fair about the bomb I dropped on her but she did respect me and understood how hard it must have been for me to tell her and take that chance.
I believe if something happens between us and how much more it is exsposed these days I don't know if I would take the advice here about the first date, I believe I would have to build some trust in another women, always remembering I'm in the closet and don't want to tell the first women who comes along and exspose myself.
We have to make choices in life and sometimes we make bad decisions and it's not like no one lies, unfortunately we all lie at times, and if you tell me you never lied to your wife that would be funny. I believe a person knows there spouse and have to follow there heart on this one. How does that saying go "if you love someone you must set them free, and if they return there yours". I think it goes something like that.
I believe we have been alittle harsh on the ones who can't tell, but not offering sympathy but understanding what there going through and deserve more support then trashing them that there bad people. After all it's only a lie if you believe it is.Lol Just my opinion. Thanks great thread

[Karyn Marie]

This is a very interesting post. I can tell you from firsthand experience it is best to be honest from the start. My wife and I have been married 23 years this past March 4th. It has been the most wonderful 23 years. I did not tell her I was a cross dresser until this past October. She was very accepting, however the thing she has told me several times is she felt I was lying to her all that time. THAT made me feel pretty rotten, and as I look back I wish I had. The reason I didn't tell her was because I was not sure how she would take it. Well, I was very pleasantly surprised, and am very glad I came out to her. Over the past few months since, I have come out even more by telling her I felt like a woman inside, then telling her I was transgender and wanted to live as a woman and eventually have SRS. It was so hard for me to do, but I wanted to be completely open and honest. You know what? To my pleasant surprise, she is okay with me being transgender and wanting to start transitioning to a woman. Again, she told me she wished I had told her a long time ago, but was glad I came out to her. She is looking forward to my transition and eventually being wife and wife....We will be two girlfriends who love each other and will always be together and in love.

I wish I had been honest from the start, but at that time I was in a pretty masculine job, and to do so would have been disastrous to my career. To wait 23 years to open up and come out, was selfish of me. Like I said, he only thing that bothered her was I kept it hidden from her for that long. I will never do that again. Regarding other people, I can be sympathetic to those who feel they have to hide it because I have lived it. It is so hard to open up, when you don't know how the person will respond. I understand it completely. I was so afraid I would lose the best thing I have in my life. My wife is an angel that I cherish more than life itself. Many of you might wonder why I did tell with the fear it would end our marriage. I am pretty sure she suspected something. I also would ask questions or say something in an effort to see what her answers would be. When I was as confident as I could be, I decided to tell her. She was so accepting, but did have lots of questions. I answered every question in the most transparent way possible. I am so glad I did. I want to believe it has brought us so much closer together. To those in a DADT or who have to be in the closet, my heart goes out to you.

[sometimes_miss]

So I never lied to my ex whilst married as I wasn't into dressing at that time. And again, she had no reason to know after.

And there we go. You decided who knows what you're doing when others are not around. But the rest of us don't get to make that choice? When exactly is the dividing line where you don't want anyone to know? Or is it simply none of her business as long as you're not doing anything ELSE that might bother her (such as being unfaithful when you were still married, or killing her dog when you were not)? Is it ok then?

A great many of us stopped crossdressing at some point. For me, it was in my twenties, many years before I got married, I hadn't crossdressed in about ten years. I thought that I had 'beaten it'. It became a distant memory, and one that I really never thought about any more than I did about making mud sculptures when I was 3. So I get engaged, get married, and five years down the line the crossdressing urge hits me again. What to do? Can't ignore it, I become increasingly irritable and short tempered. My concentration span is reduced, it affects my work, my relationships, everything. Drink? Take drugs? Beat the crap out of people? No one really knows how to treat this. But once you're in the situation, the choice has to be made. Tell or don't tell. In my case, it spelled divorce either way; my wife wanted nothing to do with crossdressers. And I understood why. But that didn't solve the problem. Knowing that there are plenty of crossdressers who never come out of the closet, and lived a normal life otherwise, I had chosen that option, and hoped for the best. Only exhaustion did me in, when one day I forgot to pick up after myself after changing back to boy clothes.

It's easy to tell others how bad they behave, but when there's no other option, other than self destruction? That's pretty mean.

[suzanne]

If you read enough posts, you find that the worst case coming out result does happen. Whether it happens more often than a positive outcome is hard to determine. I think most CD's here do a mental cost/benefit analysis based on what they know about their SO and other family members and conclude that the best they can do is live deeply closeted. My heart goes out to them. Younger members have no idea what kind of pressures were brought to bear on us to force us into a macho stereotype. The closeted should not be judged for not being fully out, only encouraged for the efforts they make to finally break out, and hopefully they find the world to be not as hostile as imagined. It's just as unfair to chastise some one for not being out as it was to expect us to live within the gender confinement that society planned for us.

[Ellie Summer]

Here's my 2 cents on this: I think this is indeed a gray area. Should people tell their spouses? In a short answer, yes, but it's much more complicated than that for some people. Let's face it, cross dressing carries an unfair stigma in society because there just hasn't been enough exposure to it. People have their own ideas about what it means, and it usually comes from movies like Silence of the Lambs. To more people than I even like to think about, cross dressers are perverts, and they won't allow their minds to be changed. To reveal all on a first date? Good luck. What does it take to change a person's mind? Trust. They need to see that cross dressers can actually be normal people and aren't the creepy perverts that most people think they are. Get them to know you first, and then if you tell them they may be pleasantly surprised. "Oh, really? I never would have guessed, you seem like such a normal person." Get that conversation going, educate educate educate. Not everyone is quite so lucky to have a SO that is so willing to be open and see things from another point of view, and it's unfair. I do think that there are innapropriate things that some people do, like going out and having a good time behind a spouses back and then lying about it. On the other hand, I know that there are people on here who didn't have the luxury of finding out about this until much later in life. They have spouses that are vehemently against this kind of thing. What then? I get the feeling that these are genuinely good people who aren't trying to pull a fast one, they're just discovering themselves, and I DO sympathize when their spouses are so closed minded that they'd be willing to throw it all away over such a thing. I've read horror stories on here about a wife throwing in the towel because it seems too perverse to live with, and I'm not trying to sound like I'm on some kind of a moral high horse here, but if I were in a situation where a girlfriend or wife realized that she liked to put on a beard and pretend she was a man, sure I'd be weirded out by it, but I'd be willing to work with it. I'd say- "Look, I at least appreciate that you're being honest with me, and it is weird, and it's not what I expected or wanted, but as long as you love me and it brings you happiness, I won't take that away from you." Not everyone has a spouse that's willing to do that, and so I can completely understand why they're in a bind. It's a lose lose situation that isn't their fault, so to those people, you have my sympathy and I wish you the best.

[Angie G]

It is really hard bringing yourself to tell youe SO I went through for a long time. Then got the ba%$S to come out to her. Turned out great.:hugs:
Angie

[2BArianwen]

Hi Everyone. This is my first post and maybe it's somewhat unfortunate that this was the first thread I picked up, but I have to say this is a little disappointing - I came to the site not looking for sympathy, but looking for understanding. I am 54 and been married for 30years. Whilst I've always had an attraction to women's clothing, and sometimes indulged in 'borrowing' an item or 2 for a few hours, it has only been in the last year that I've been able to really process this and come to the conclusion that I am a cross-dresser. I'm sure you all understand when I say that there is a huge part of me that wants to let the feminine identity in me be released. It's so much harder when you're older because not are you battling against the stereotypes of what a man is (or maybe more importantly, what a man isn't), but you also know that it's so much more difficult to look and behave womanly. That being said, I've been married 30yrs and in recognition of my full identity less than 12months. i can't even explain it to myself, so how do I explain it to my wife?! I know that if I try to, she'll divorce me.

So, just a suggestion, maybe show a little more compassion to the many people who follow these discussions, but are too afraid to post for whatever reason, simply because they haven't yet been able to sort and got their heads round it as much as you.

[Confucius]

I can understand why many crossdressers hide it from their wives. For one thing, we don't understand it ourselves. It doesn't even make sense to us. How can we explain it to them if we can't explain it to ourselves?

Then there is the issue of stigma. There is a social stigma attached with this condition. Society considers crossdressers as damaged goods - not real men.

Then there is the issue of the general population associating crossdressing with homosexuality and transsexualism.

Personally, I spent many years trying to cure myself of crossdressing. I thought that when I got married and was in a satifying sexual relationship then the crossdressing would go away.

Of course we also experience fear of rejection from our loved ones...

You have to admit that the first time we talk about crossdressing with our wife takes a great deal of courage. I give them my sympathy.

[Stephanie47]

Welcome 2b. Don't despair. This goes on frequently. I think some people either stay up too late or get up too early. I don't even try to figure out someone's motives for throwing rocks in glass houses anymore. It may be a reflection of personal experience. Don't let any thread get you down. Each person has their own individual life experiences. None are the same. However, some feel it is necessary to apply their personal experiences to all. The only advice I have to a newbie on this forum is to not follow the advice of any person. Only you bear the consequences of your actions or lack of action.

[ChristinaK]

Many of us want to bury their female side and truly believe that they can have a normal relationship without being a CD. Then, once married and comfortable, the evil woman raises her head and demands to be satisfied. What's to be done then?

The result is a double life filled with trepidation and anxiety that the woman he loves will reject him once discovered, either intentionally or unintentionally. It's a horrible existence one does not wish to initiate, but one that must be endured once love enters into the relationship.

Please, those of you who have sympathetic SOs, to understand the dilemma of many, many of us that attempt to deny our proclivity when in a new relationship but succumb to the reality of our nature later in the relationship.

We do not set out to deceive our loved ones, but to deceive our true nature to ourselves. But, the pink fog ALWAYS wins in the end and we're in a trap. Do we expose ourselves and lose the love of our life, or do we try and cope alone and fearful of discovery?

Oh what a tangled Web we weave, when we set out to deceive. Whether it's to deny or deceive ourselves or another....

[Becky Blue]

Arianwen, please don't be put off this wonderful place, just because of a few judgemental people. You will find the vast majority of posters here to be full of compassion and awesome advice.

[sweetdreams]

2B (or not 2B I guess), you did indeed pick a lively thread to jump in on. I think if you review most of the posters to this thread, they are generally in support of the difficult situations we find ourselves in. Just a few comments are perhaps a little less supportive than is needed.

I think all of us are on our own journeys and each of us faces our personal barriers. For some they are trying to get out the front door, others are in the closet and trying to find a way out, others are in the closet with no intention of coming out, etc.. Point is few of us are completely where we might like to be and we continue to evolve by chipping away at the challenges as we feel we can handle at any point in time.

I certainly sympathize with your situation. It is perhaps one of the most challenging. Trying to come to peace with accepting this part of you, and yet filled with trepidation of how your SO would deal with this. There is the sticky thread at the top of this forum dealing with "Tips to An SOs Acceptance." It might be worth a read for you.

If you read some of the other threads you will get a sense that none of us can really explain why we crossdress. For many of us this is something we have dealt with all of our lives. Often it's a matter of taking a big sigh and just accepting this is simply a part of us for whatever reason. Generally we feel this is a special part of us and we find enjoyment as best as we can. In the end only you can assess and decide what your path needs to be and what challenges you are willing to take on.

I think I can say that almost without exception, we are all here to help and support each other. It's certainly been my experience here.

I wish you all the best.

[Lacey New]

Laurana,
You have made your choices in life and so have I. We will both live with the consequences of our choices.

[CONSUELO]

Who are we to JUDGE!

[phili]

I think the urge to tell on the first date is a reasonable response to knowing how important it is and wanting to get the BIG QUESTION over with. Of course, it is a gamble, and all of the possible negative outcomes are real, so it is a drastic, bold, and dangerous gamble.

The pivotal question seems to be how much is to be gained from waiting.

I've been on both sides of this, so here is my progress:

I used to think that people grasp all of life in an instant, and make balanced decisions the first time.
So what the heck, just tell her. It feels so much better than trying to work out when and how. Speed dating works!

I began to realize that people's perceptions of each other are really fragmentary, even when the dating/marriage radar is on. 30 years on, I can't believe I am still learning really important things about my wife. If she had opened our first date by saying I'm an adult child of an alcoholic, distrust men, have a deep and abiding sense of being out of control, and really want everything to be just fine without having to make hard decisions... as opposed to radiating the angelic qualities that are also her, I have no doubt I would have been a helpful listener, and passed up on the love of my life and all that we have shared, including our daughter.

Has my crossdressing need interfered with my ability to be husband? Yes- but perhaps not just because I hid/denied/sublimated it. It was also because my upbringing was just as tormented as hers. It was also because I was concerned with my own feelings and needs more than makes a good marriage work. It is also because we live in a chaotic mess of cultural rules, fears, habits, etc. Does my SO express all her needs clearly, or even understand them? No- we humans are messy because we are complicated. We are a pool of thousands of options and tendencies and cognitive successes and failures.

Marriages are messy but rewarding, and reducing the concept to a single issue is not going to work anyway. I've known women who were enthusiastic about my crossdressing, but would have been disastrous partners. Spending lots of time in the 'getting to know you' stage is good practice, and each item has its own space. Talking about the entertainment culture, or news on transgender issues will serve just as well to start disclosing bit by bit, after determining how raw the subject is. Religion, politics, and gender are all high voltage subjects.

Sympathy for all humans makes sense.

[Tina_gm]

I would say at a certain point I lose sympathy. But, to be in or have been in that situation, I have all kinds of sympathy. Someone mentioned about how accepting society was 30 or more years ago..... and for those of us going through our teens or early adulthood, denial of ourselves was huge. To the point WE didn't know. Going through our own discovery late to the party becomes it's own issue.

Where I would say I lose sympathy is when someone leads a double life for 20 or so years, secret accounts, friends, going out, lying about what they did or where they were, money spent.... then do come forward and do get upset because the very next day after the reveal their wife isn't jumping for joy sharing her wardrobe and make up planning a girls day out. I don't have much sympathy for that.

[JeanTG]

I didn't tell my wife on the first date, but I did tell her well before we married, and I got the "it took a lot of courage for you to tell me this" reaction, and we ended up married. But as it turns out, it is not something she is comfortable with and it has caused lots of grief over the years. Over time there have been some minor compromises: panties 24/7 for instance. But for the rest it is DADT. Not that she isn't aware it happens. She is and told me so. It's just that at the end of a hard day at work where she deals with difficult people who are often in distress, she has limited capacity to cope with it. So we respect each others' limitations. So there really isn't any dishonesty involved. I keep all my stuff in my dresser, but under layers of male stuff, except for the panty drawer, as I no longer have any male underwear close at hand (all stuffed in a bag in a basement storage bin; I'm always loathe to throw out anything still usable).

[ginapoodle]

In the final life lessons learned category for me, my CDing and gender dysphoria have enormously increased my empathy for all humans. We all have issues.