Discussion at work on Crossdressers

[joanne51]

I found myself today listening to two of my friends at work talking about crossdressers.
One (a guy) could not get his head around what we do. The other friend (a GG) was more
concerned about how some of us dress and our makeup. She did not make the distinction between
the CD's who blend in, and those who she saw as being typical CD's (over the top).
For my part I chose not to offer an opinion, just in case they read me as being too knowledgeable on the subject!
How do others react when caught in that situation (where it's difficult to appear to speak in support of CD'ing
without giving the game away)?

[LaurenDeHart]

If it's friends I'm with I say something like, "I don't know, some of them look pretty hot, but whatever floats your boat".

If it's family I'm with I just nod and say nothing.

Lauren

[AllieSF]

One way might be to ask questions around the subject. Like,

Why do they do that?

I wonder if they can stop doing it?

Are they actually hurting anyone by going out an doing their own thing You know like when us guys may dress up in the same colors of our favorite sports team or paint our faces to show support?


I know when at work or even with friends and family there seems to be that justifiable fear of joining in the conversation, trying to bring clarity and common sense to it and maybe provide some simple helpful true knowledge that may help to correct their negative or uninformed opinions. Many times it also boils down to a persons ability to go against the common opinions and take a reasonable stance among those co-workers family and friends while maintaining ones self security and secret life. That ability sometimes is based on how well one can communicate, debate and discuss (communication skills and the ability to think quickly to formulate whatever answer or reply is needed to participate). You may or may not have those abilities, but they can be learned over time and really come in handy in all facets of our lives.

[Teresa]

Joanne,
I guess it's taken so long to get to this point I would just pass comment and let them think what they like, bite the bullet and educate them it will help us all in the end.

[mykell]

hi joanne, i have told this story here before, i work doing projects.....one week i was assigned to work with a group in a store for a few days....during my last day a fellow asked if i was assigned to work there next week, i told him i was not and he scoffed and exclaimed that he hoped so-and-so was not going to be assigned....i said whats wrong with so-and-so, its one of those things, thing i said....what kind of thing, he went on to explain how its was some guy who claimed to be a women :eek:......well after some thought i mentioned to him that we have a thing in my family :devil: it was fun to watch him try to back peddle his remarks :o i then told him i had weird thoughts on the matter but because it was a family member i had to address it and educated myself about it :D we then went on to finish our tasks for the day.

so i am the family member, i used to feel weird about it.....now im here and attend support group. its possible to stand up for yourself and either stay in the closet for some.....for me it is to respect my wifes wishes to keep this private....im just not as passive as i used to be and speak my mind.

what ever works for you.....its your choice....but it was fun to watch them squirm, its easy to criticize when you have no skin in the game :tongueout

[Jaylyn]

I'm ashamed of myself because I have been around family when they were talking a few months ago about a guy in there home town that gets dressed in a wig and dress and drives thru their small town. They started joking about the guy. My wife looked at me and I just shook my head no like I was disgusted also. This was all family and I'm definitely not out and for sure in my own small town in West Texas would be run out of town if anyone knew. ( wife excluded )
I feel bad sometimes but for some it has to remain something behind closed doors. When the conversation is brought up we have to stay quiet and it is hard because we understand what we do.
It's crazy because other things such as after the news we pipe right in like we knew what we are talking about but in the CD conversation too much knowledge and speaking could out you.

[ClosetED]

I went to presentation at work about Transgender issues. There were about 2 dozen people there. I mentioned, truthfully, that I had friends with fraternal twins (one boy one girl) and each considered themselves the other sex for a while, so I read up on the subject to help. I also see patients so I claimed I occasionally go to listen to the man's lungs and find a bra strap (NEVER HAPPENED). I have seen 1 TG person, pre HRT, just trying to live 24/7 at the time. It allowed me to inform others more deeply than the presenter, without outing myself.
Hugs, Ellen

[ginapoodle]

Yes, I have been in that situation. Some are supportive, some are neutral, some are incredibly negative. I usually say nothing as to remain confidential. I have had family members in very conservative W TX absolutely go on trashing anyone GLBT, and it hurts.

[ronda]

my answer is that lgbt people are just everyone else they were born that that way and who made you judge and jury they have a right to be who they are the same as you have the right to be an ahole about what they are doing buy paying more attention to them then to your self becoming a better person and excepting people as they are

[Tama]

In this situation I substitute myself for a fictional someone I knew years ago. I state how once I got to know them and I started to realize their dilemma, and I had a complete turn-around about who "they" were. I also told these people about what it must be like to be this misunderstood and alone, and how would they feel if it were their problem rather than this fictional person. I went to to say I'd sympathize for anyone in this situation, and maybe understanding rather then total judgement might be a better method...The times I've had to try this method were met with silence, some positive conversation, or horror (one time anyway) about what It had to like to be stuck with a friend like that..
It served to tell me what these people are really about, and maybe give them something different to ponder down the road...It has never been dull however

[Paula2]

I have never discussed CD with my co/workers..Some of which have seen me dressed as Paula..I guess it is something I should bring up just to find out..So far most people I know are supportive..It is very calming to be able to be who you want to be!! But remember it is always better to keep your personal life separate from your work life!! Things will haunt you

[Judy-Somthing]

I worked with a guy a few years ago and one day I said "Friday is wear a dress to work day".
He said "If you show up in a dress, I will beat you to death with a hammer" he didn't laugh and seemed quite serious.

Another day he said a lot of nasty stuff about Gays and how they are all going to Hell.
He also thought everyone was out to get him.

I told the boss I couldn't work with him any more. They transfered him to another group and after two weeks no one could stand him.
The boss didn't want to fire him thinking he might do something so they gave him all the hard jobs and cut back his hours, he ended up quitting!

[joanne51]

We have no way of telling when someone we know is going to mention CD'ing. So we are caught unprepared.
In any other conversation we would not need to think first before talking.
Often we joke about what a guy gets up to at weekends. Even in those situations we have to watch are words.
The other day a young lady commented, on seeing a picture of me at the finish of a charity walk (wearing the charity T-shirt).
She said pink is my colour. Little does she know that I've become quite fond of pink (dresses, undies, etc).

[Aunt Kelly]

My approach is (usually) the same, Joanne - I'll hold my tongue lest I seem too knowledgeable. On the other hand, if the tenor of the conversation turns ugly, I will wade in and point out how backwards those views are in 2017.

[JessicaB.]

If it's around anyone who doesn't know I usually just keep to my self so I don't seem like I know too much. But if its around people who know I will speak up. I hear all the time at work negative things about trans people. I just keep my mouth shut because it's not worth the energy to argue with them

[Teresa]

Mikell,
I wouldn't tell or discuss it with anyone to make them squirm, when I posted recently about having this kind of conversation the guy I was talking to didn't realise the implications of being a Cder. I apologised to him because he felt uncomfortable with seeing my picture and then at the end he apologised to me for not understanding why we do it and what some of us go through to satisfy our needs, for instance he hadn't noticed my shaved hands and was surprised I needed to shave most of my body everyday.

It's a sad fact that many in the US have a harder time with acceptance than we do in the UK, that was something I didn't expect when I joined the forum, I thought it would be the reverse.

[Traci H]

I thought about this the other day as our office conversation drifted to LGBT and the like. A very close minded, black and white friend, immediately made negative comments about Caitlyn Jenner and how sick and awful that was. (he has shown his hate for gays in the past was well.) My only comment was "I'm glad to see you're so open minded Bob". I don't know how the others in the office felt as they just veered away from participating in the conversation at that point. Some days it's a little hard to work with someone who you know would hate the very thing you do. I'll just keep it out of the lime light. You could never change this persons take either. I also try not to say too much in conversations about any knowledge of women's fashions. sizing, etc. I know much more about such than say sports teams though.

[Pumped]

This subject came up at work a while back. A couple guys I work with just went nuts when the subject came up. At the same time homosexuality came up. I was afraid they were going to barf or something. I just looked at them and said that I did not know what the big deal is what someone wears. If a guy wants to wear dress it does not affect me at all. I also told them I know a gay couple that are happily married and are nice guys. I have a beer with them once in a while. These guys I work with almost go out of their way to gag and shudder and act like they are all but going to die. I also mentioned just because a guy wears woman's clothing it does not mean he is gay. They did agree, but have a tough time separating the two. One of them mentioned to me that he was surprised that I was so accepting and he had me figured wrong. I told him that I really don't care what other people do as long as it does not affect me. I am firmly in the closet so I don't admit much, but I will step up and defend CD'ers.

[Shely]

in our family, of two dozen, we have one transitioning TG and one Gay Guy. I have had conversations with some red neck guys I work with, that go on point, at the mention of Gays etc. I never mention my CDing of course and hope they don't find out ever. But is is amazing just how convinced some people are that they are perfect and someone else is flawed. I don't know why it should affect them at all, but it seems to reinforce the position that they are superior. Screw them I say. :doh:

[Amy Fakley]

I shut right the hell up

:rofl:

It's probably more of a tell than if I'd just keep up with the conversation, but yeah. That's a chill right through my soul when that stuff comes up. It's a bit nerdy, but I'm a huge Dr. Who fan. When the Master regenerated into the Mistress (omg ... oh to be a tomelord!) conversations in my social circle became a minefield!

[jayme357]

It occurs to me that when these very uncomfortable situations arise there is an opportunity to make a profound impact. What if when presented with the resentment and obtuseness of the typical macho male, we made a casual comment to the fact that we had a family member that was a crossdresser? This would give us the opportunity to discuss with a degree of knowledgeability the details of what being transgendered really means. The freedom to describe feelings and emotions without having to confess our own involvement. The opportunity to engage in a dialogue without confessing our own involvement. We might even be able to educate an oaf or two without giving anything away. Just a thought.

[Diane Taylor]

haven't been in that situation very often but the few times I was, I simply said that I accept and support all types of GLBT people and let it go at that.

[Ashley090]

Such conversations I encounter quite o lot in public in general. Most of them are negative and/or make fun of such ppl. At work I do not say anything if topic comes up. Or i say something that sounds as I just read that on wiki. If guy starts naming makeup brands, using related "profesionals terms" and show extendet knowledge of woman's clothing beyond "how to take clothes from girl" then you sit in spotlight. And here you automaticly seen as gay.
When going to work by train I overheard lotsof discussions about related topics. One time there were two guys, two girls discussing their colleague abkut him wearing woman's jacket at winter. Besides cut it was completly unisex jacket and they laughting and having great fun of their colleauge, not understanding him. Other time there were passanger arguing with guy that was from staff and checking tickets. This guy had shoulder lenght hair and looks kind of girlysh but other then that, a guy. Said passanger was almost yelling about how he dare look like that if he is from staff and he ahould not look like a girl at all. That guy keep it professional and just said that company rules have nothing against it then he ignore futher comments from passanger.
For my parrents, they usualy laught at this toppic and have great fun when they look at one tv show where men do dresses as women for show and not understand how someone can do it just for fun (only if they know that their own son is one of them....) so I rather avoid this topic with them too.
Rules for conversation:
1. Do not say anything
2. If you do say anything, play dumb with lack of knowledge.

[Becky Blue]

I have been involved in quite a few conversations both socially and in the workplace where Transgender or Crossdressing has come up. I am pleased to say that most people here in Australia seem to be reasonably open minded and I have not picked up any negativity. Given I am very much in the closet with regards to Becky to friends and family I am always mindful of not being too opinionated, I have generally played along with the general conversation and agreed with the general view. I have often wondered what I would do if someone said something negative.

[Georgette_USA]

Not a CD

When I transitioned at work in 1977 till I left that corporation in 1992. Can't say any major conversations came up about TS or CD. I may have had a few one-on-one to explain it. I think since the corporation was solidly behind me, no one ever questioned it.
I did find out a couple of years ago that someone who worked in same corporation, now a transitioned TG/TS, had seen me and had asked about me back then. Apparently a lot in the corporation knew my background. She could not find a reason to talk with me without others questioning "him" at the time.

When I went to work at other places I was only seen as a woman. Can't say I ever heard of any such conversations. I think the very public change for Caitlyn Jenner in 2015 sparked an interest in it. By then I was already retired in 2011.

[Beverley Sims]

I have a similar view to Jaylyn when involved in such discussions, when in a knowing group it becomes a lively and usually quite interesting discussion.

Better to keep quiet when amongst those that are less informed.

[mykell]

It occurs to me that when these very uncomfortable situations arise there is an opportunity to make a profound impact. What if when presented with the resentment and obtuseness of the typical macho male, we made a casual comment to the fact that we had a family member that was a crossdresser? This would give us the opportunity to discuss with a degree of knowledgeability the details of what being transgendered really means. The freedom to describe feelings and emotions without having to confess our own involvement. The opportunity to engage in a dialogue without confessing our own involvement. We might even be able to educate an oaf or two without giving anything away. Just a thought.

opportunity presented and i took full advantage....just look at my previous post....


Mikell,
I wouldn't tell or discuss it with anyone to make them squirm, when I posted recently about having this kind of conversation the guy I was talking to didn't realise the implications of being a Cder. I apologised to him because he felt uncomfortable with seeing my picture and then at the end he apologised to me for not understanding why we do it and what some of us go through to satisfy our needs, for instance he hadn't noticed my shaved hands and was surprised I needed to shave most of my body everyday.
.................................................. ..................................................

hi teresa, well i really dont tell or discuss just for the sheer purpose to make a person squirm.....but it is side effect for that person after they realize they have just made a bigoted comment in front of a family member of someone they made that comment about..... as someone who waters here knows once the toothpaste is out of the tube you cant put any excess back, this time it was me standing up for my proclivity.

their was another time i was working with someone who made fun of ethnicity which my wife is part of, i pulled a picture of my son out and declared how he was 1/2 this particular ethnicity.....he was someone i worked with frequently.....his discomfort was apparent.....he tried to walk it back but could not....he exclaimed to me that "you know what i meant", i said to him i do, loud and clear. this is what helped me take advantage of the encounter i had......this time defending my identity and educating those who are ignorant about it. i was loud and proud and still keeping my promise to the Mrs. to keep it private......:D

at this stage of my life i not going to apologize for being myself or having opinions that differ from the conceived norms...

[Fiona123]

I have not been in that situation. I have though spoken in support of gay and trans rights to some co-workers.

[BettyMorgan]

Think of it as a teachable moment. If you say nothing, nothing will change and the ignorance you see in the world will perpetuate.

[NancySue]

Yes, I've been involved in discussions, both individually and small groups. No...no one knows about me. Here, in our area, the feelings and opinions are mostly negative. They jump to the conclusion that all cders are gay. They are not aware, or do they want to accept that, yes, anyone, including cders can be gay, bi, and straight. I mentioned there are cders who are straight, in one discussion and was immediately shut down...my last word. Even when I told my wife, before we wed, her only concern was, "was I gay". I'm not. She knew that, but wanted to hear it. She accepted me and has been very supportive.

[Jenny22]

In all of my years, I've never been involved in such a discussion. But, I've been prepared. If the discussers were not family, I'd use the 'we've got a family member who's a CD'. In other cases, I'd use the fictional friend rational. In either event, it would be an opportunity to possibly educate without outing.

[Leslie Mary S]

My problems are I can't think fast enough and have trouble stretching the facts so I tend to try to avoide those types of conversations totally.

[sometimes_miss]

I told the boss I couldn't work with him any more. They transferred him to another group and after two weeks no one could stand him.
The boss didn't want to fire him thinking he might do something so they gave him all the hard jobs and cut back his hours, he ended up quitting!
^This is what they usually do to US when they want to get rid of us from a workplace.
Say nothing in order to escape the discrimination lawsuit, but go around our back to make life miserable enough in order to get us to quit. I'm glad you brought this up, because so many here think it doesn't happen to anyone. I"ve seen this type of thing happen to people more than once over the years.

Periodically, a transgendered person shows up at work, and of course, the snickers and muffled laughs ensue after the person is out of sight. I've tried to tell people 'what if it was YOUR son/daughter', but they still don't get it. And these are all people with college and post grad degrees who should know better. I've come to realize that there are a lot of people with deep set beliefs (often stemming from religious upbringing, several times the phrase 'they're going to hell' has been said) that they simply cannot, or will not, let go of. There's tolerance, they still behave professionally to the patient's face, but behind the scenes, it's the same old story; many still consider us freaks. Nothing is ever said directly to the person; even when a gay or ts coworker is around, they're careful not to say anything inflammatory. But the whispers and sidelong glances continue. Some of the folks simply say nothing. But I don't know what the solution to all this is.

[SometimesKairi]

I often instigate the conversations at work towards the more extreme aspects.
I like to see people's opinions on things and their expressions when I say an extreme thing with a straight face (I am the master of dead pan)

Most people say they don't really get it, the northerners (in the UK they are seen as brash, undeservedly full of themselves and very homophobic) acts as if someone cross-dresses they are a huge gay.
But the more tolerant people I often swing around by saying, "look, if someone cross-dresses, does it affect you?" when they reply "no" I say "there you go then"

People are doing what makes them happy, why is that anyone else's business?

[Stephanie47]

I would throw my two cents into the conversation. I have a good friend whose grandson is going through turmoil trying to figure out his sexuality identity. Is he gay? Is he a transwoman? He went to his senior prom in a gown and looked great. But life has been brutal for him dealing with ignorant people. My wife's female cousin's daughter is transitioning to a man. There is no reason to fess up and 'out' yourself. Even if all you do is watch television and read magazines the information is out there. Educate people. In my group of friends I've tried to educate the guys. You may not understand it, but, that's no reason to be stupid.

[Steph65]

I have a cousin who married her wife. She is Lesbien. My other cousin one day said to me after seeing about gays and all. He said they are all sick and it is not right and they should see a doctor and.... I blasted him. I said to him we have a cousin who she is gay and married same sex and she is happy as any one could be. She is family and to put some one else down is not right. he said the bible said it is not right and they will go to hell. He said they all should go to hell it is sick and disgusting. I said really? and the bible said judge not lest ye be judged!!! To judge some one else is trying to make an excuse to make yourself more hollier than thou!!! I told my cousin that gay and les and trans and every one else are no better than the next person!!!. I mentioned to him that he had a disability and that I accepted the fact he has one..... I told him what if I thought the same as you people with disabilities should see a doctor and that it is sick how they are and should not be seen in public? it changed his mind after that. I was even approached at work about CD trans and gays ect ect. I said as long as they are happy and can help society be a better place thats all that matters.

[mechamoose]

Presenting in any form at work is a challenge, I think.

I wear regular the regular 'consultant uniform' of dress pants and a collared dress shirt every day. Yes, I have long hair, wear rings in my ears and on my fingers, and I carry a purse.

Even that little wink, carrying that purse, has gotten me a number of comments. I work in a hospital's IT department, and if there is going to be a more culturally accepting *staff* I can't think of one. Management culture is a different beast.

I have an awesome GG co-worker with a hot-pink flat-top and excellent taste in clothing and jewelry... not a blink.

There is so much testosterone in my group. Trucks and dogs and firearms (ok, and HAM radio). I just don't feel safe stepping more off from the path than I already do. I'm not personally afraid, I just need the job.

I am looking for another place to work far reasons beyond these issues, and I am making it a point to select 'not declared' of any gender or identify questions when I apply. I'm going to try and step in to whatever new place I got identifying as transgender, because I'm just not happy otherwise.

}:*

- MM

[SaraCanonmill]

I live in the Bible Belt, so most people around me seem pretty ignorant to any sort of gender or sexuality issues, funnily enough though at my previous job is the only time I've ever met someone who I knew was a CD'er and he was my boss. I made a comment one day about buying panties or something stupid and he said, "I would be the last person to judge someone for that" then worse a dress on Halloween and apparently was in drag shows. I felt relatively reassured there that it was pretty normal. My current job is mostly filled with the stereotypical male conservative type but luckily I'm on the road all day so I don't have to hear it too much lol. Hoping once I get into a sort of career position it might be a bit better since I've been involved with IT stuff since high school but never really landed anything but holdovers.

[Nikki A.]

My own two cents worth. When the topic arises I also use the "I know someone who is transitioning or is finding their way" this way I can maybe inform people who are some what ignorant of what we are or do.
But then again there are some people that I work with that are aware of or have been with Nikki.

[susan54]

I feel the need to defend the North of England even though I am Scottish. I have had many holidays in York as Susan and most people realised I was male. I was welcomed everywhere and found everyone very friendly. Same goes for Scotland.

[Aaron Zwidling]

I haven't heard a conversation like that anytime in the last few years, but if it did happen and some people in the conversation were negative about crossdressing I would be tempted to pose the question as to why women's clothes are bad. Ask them what is wrong with a dress. If the only thing they came up with was dresses are fine for women but for a man they are 'just wrong', the next obvious question would be to ask why a dress is 'just wrong'. I don't know that you could change any opinions on the spot, but it seems to me if all the person could come up with was immature logic such as 'just because' or 'that's not how I grew up', then whoever was responding that way would look a little foolish.

[CrossWitMe]

Had a one sided conversation recently about a former co-worker who identified as male and to be honest it me feel pretty tense that my own secrets would be revealed if I said anything. Reading all these comments has been helpful in showing me that there are better ways to handle such situations.

[Sherrii]

If something like this comes up I usually say something like "I don't care what they do as long as they don't try and force it on me and it isn't hurting anyone, who cares, it's not any of my business anyway." I may not use those exact words but that is the idea, that folks have the right to do as they want as long as it doesn't affect me, or others who are not interested.

[Ressie]

Something like this came up about 15 years ago at a place I was working at. There was a transgender that suddenly appear on the local car dealing scene. I ran into her at the DMV and she talked quite loud and had nothing to hide personality wise.

One of the girls that works at the car auction was talking about her saying, "why do they wear girl's clothes? I don't care if they're gay, but why can't they just be gay instead of dressing like that"? I didn't say anything as I listened to others make ignorant comments. Finally, I said that there are different cases and someone else agreed with me. I didn't share my knowledge on the subject any further. And I'm glad that no one tried to pry more info from me!

The person she was talking about definitely is gay from my observation. Like I said above, she talked very loud and had the personality that an openly gay person has. And I didn't think of her as a CD, probably TS.

[atxpantyboy]

Like many of you, I used to either ignore the conversation or I would speak of positive experiences with TGs I have worked with or known firsthand, and a few similar examples like that from friends. But over the last couple of years, and depending on the setting or audience, I've gotten to where I really enjoy letting them know that I partake in some gender-bending and that it isn't any big deal.

[Mark B]

I am the conversation at work. :heehee: