Can anyone give me some insight

[Gendersoul16]

Hi, Erin here. I hope this fits the SO discussion category.........I have a situation that continues to be problematic for my wife, a GG, and I. She is quite accepting of my dressing and knows when I got out and knows some of my CD friends. We are a fun group who like the en femme experience and are not into sex, kink, or other such intimate activities that might threaten to compete with our marriage. However, when she sees me dressed it causes her a lot of emotional difficulty. She says that the image of me en femme in her mind clashes with her being used to me as a male partner. Some of it is her view of women in general, as she is a feminist. She wonders how much of the CD en femme is objectifying to women. I always dress pretty normal, with a little makeup and not drag/swanky, so I do not understand her comments. I always tell her I am a feminist too and that is a big part of my dressing. It helps me remember to drop my male armour which has been very good for me. We talk from time to time about revisiting her being with me when I am dressed. After 30 years, this is still the case. So I don't dress with her nor go out as a female-female couple, although I'd like to. We have had couple's therapy, and we agreed to go another round with the therapist. Does anyone have some insight into this kind of situation? Thanks so much!

[Shelly Preston]

HI Erin

I think this question deserves its own thread

[suzanne]

I fail to see how crossdresssing is an objectification of women, at least in the case of a mainstream presentation. The ladies who participate in this forum appear to be expressing their true feelings about who they are, or how they feel most comfortable. We are living our truths, that there is something very deeply rooted in us that identifies with the feminine. There is no attempt to mock or diminish or objectify women, just a need to identify with them. I'm only speaking for myself, of course, but my own experience tells me I'm being perceived that way by the women I meet. In all of the conversations I have had while out and dressed, women make me feel at ease, as if I am accepted as just one of the girls.

[Rachelakld]

For me, Cd are empathetic with feminist.
There may be a situation with friends, when it becomes competative as to "who is the most girlie" which can seam like mocking females, but if it's just a bunch of girls off for a drink and normal girls night out, that's fine on my score card.

Had you dressed in drag, then I would have agreed with your wife

[Stephanie_V]

Gotta go with Suzanne with this one. I also think that your wife may be interpreting 'objectification' is slightly askew. When men objectify women, they see them as an object. This is most commonly in the form of sex. Dressing and wanting to exemplify the female form is more of an homage to feminity than anything else.
Now, if you were dressing in order to attempt to engage in sex with a female, that could be construed as objectifying. That's not the case with you.
Personally, I would ask her why she feels that you are objectify women. This would give you a starting point on possibility giving her a different perspective on the situation.

[mechamoose]

This is kind of a common theme here, actually.

You are not dressing as any kind of statement, other than a personal one. This has (IMHO) -nothing- to do with feminism.

You are trying to get to a place where you feel a certain way, one which is comfortable and special. This is *entirely* personal.

Counseling is good, but make sure you are talking about the right things.

<3

- MM

[docrobbysherry]

Listen to the Moose. Your issues r between u and your SO. We haven't any magic formulas. Sounds to me like if she doesn't see u dressed many of her issues mite vanish?:thumbsup:

[Dana44]

Listen to Moose and Suzanne. I would add that this does not have anything to do with feminism. You have your own styles and if your partner(wife) can share things with you it would be great, However on therapist, they go in the direction that you two bring up. So make it well worth your effort. You just need to be you.

[Teresa]

Erin,
My wife knows I go out dressed but doesn't wish to see me, she just wants the man she married. I do also get some low punches as comments which you don't. She has gone as far as she is comfortable with there's nothing more complicated than that, she has cooperated by joint counselling which my wife has refused to do , I'm the one with the problem it's up to me to sort it.

You have to settle with what you have , which is more than many others have here .

[Tracii G]

Moose pretty much nailed it.
To claim you are a feminist is stretching it a bit.
Just because you dress up is in no way objectifying women.
If your wife was a true feminist she wouldn't allow you to dress enfemme because you would be considered a weak man.
I say that because I had a run in with 2 feminist women back last summer.
These were the real deal feminists one had neon green hair the other bright orange hair. They told me trannies and gays should be rounded up because they were poisoning the society.
I tried to have a civil discussion with them but they were nasty hateful women.
I told them to FO and leave me alone and walked off as they were screaming profanities at me.
This was at the Pride parade

[Pat]

However, when she sees me dressed it causes her a lot of emotional difficulty. She says that the image of me en femme in her mind clashes with her being used to me as a male partner. Some of it is her view of women in general, as she is a feminist. She wonders how much of the CD en femme is objectifying to women.

It seems like a double-edged sword. Part of her reaction to you is based in stereotyping males. But I do see her concern about your presentation reflecting a male objectifying or stereotyping women since everything you know about presenting as a woman is filtered through your prior male experience. Except your prior experience is probably not the same as a cisgender male -- I think the difference is significant. This is an area where she could give you important guidance and feedback while at the same time getting insight into you. In other words, this is both a danger and an opportunity for you both. ;)

[Nikkilovesdresses]

I certainly have difficulty understanding the connection between crossdressing of the type you describe and a threat to feminism. I think she's just clutching at straws to come up with what might appear to be legitimate objections.

But that doesn't alter the fact that she feels fundamentally uncomfortable with your crossdressing. If she's stayed with you for 30 years then you must be doing something right, but it sounds as if she's struggling and couples therapy seems your best option - provided you're seeing a therapist who fully understands the subject and isn't peddling their own agenda.

[Gendersoul16]

Thanks everyone for your comments and advice.........Its been a long road and I am in it for the long run. I respect all my relationships and sharing my femme side is very precious

[Micki_Finn]

I'm not going to comment on the feminism thing other than to say that no, cross dressing isn't inherently misogynistic, but I have encountered CDs whose reasons for dressing were pretty misogynistic.

But over all I'd just tell you to keep doing what you're doing. You and your wife seem to be progressing towards finding your happy medium. Maybe DADT will end up being best for you. Maybe something else. Just keep those lines of communication open and respect each other's feelings.

[Allsteamedup]

These are her emotions and she has a right to them!

Many of the difficulties women experience when trying to accept a partner deressed involve gender and sexuality. these are two huge areas, and little understood by men. Trying to understand would be worth yor while.

When dressed you are not a girlfriend or a sister. You are just a fella in a frock. Leaving aside your feelings when dressed and how you want to be perceived in company, your partner is suddenly left without a role. To her in your male role (gender) you are a fundamental part of her identity. When intimate with you, you each express a sexuality you are comfotable with.

When you are dressed both that gender and sexuality are questioned. You want to be treated like a woman (gender) but that calls into question your partner's sexuality. Are you in a temporary same-sex relationship (sexuality) even though you are out socially, and is your partner, by association, now perceived to be different, too.

The term gender-fluid explains a lot to you, but most women do not see themselves as gender-fluid and therefore find it difficult to understand. To complicate matters, many women take longer than others to feel comfortable in their own sexual expression and anything which questions them is very emotional indeed. This offers a lot of inconvenience to the cder. An accepting woman would be so much easier.

[ClosetED]

I can guess she thinks of you seeing women in stereotypical way - being pretty, colorful, smiling - just like the women in the catalogs she may very well look thru to inspire her of what to buy. So you are being just as objectifying as her. If she pays zero attention to clothing styles, what other women are wearing, then she might have a point. But you are doing nothing other than millions of other women are doing - seeing what women do to make THEMSELVES FEEL GOOD ABOUT THEMSELVES. Once married, are they dressing to get a man? Yet they will wonder if we are doing it to attract a man. And there are women who, once married, no longer are careful about their looks. But most still do want to look good and for WHY? Just to make their 'man' happy? Or to make themselves feel good about themselves out in public with other women? So why can't we be exactly the same? Sexual discrimination!
IMHO
Hugs, Ellen

[Gabriella111]

Moose pretty much nailed it.
To claim you are a feminist is stretching it a bit.
Just because you dress up is in no way objectifying women.
If your wife was a true feminist she wouldn't allow you to dress enfemme because you would be considered a weak man.
I say that because I had a run in with 2 feminist women back last summer.
These were the real deal feminists one had neon green hair the other bright orange hair. They told me trannies and gays should be rounded up because they were poisoning the society.
I tried to have a civil discussion with them but they were nasty hateful women.
I told them to FO and leave me alone and walked off as they were screaming profanities at me.
This was at the Pride parade

Can we not conflate transphobic trolls protesting the T in LGBT at a pride parade with actual feminists? Feminism doesn't demand men be strong.

I don't see anything contradictory about my boyfriend being a crossdresser and him being a feminist. If anything, I value his feminist opinions more because he's so in touch with that part of himself. So I would assume most crossdressers would also consider themselves feminists, as they more easily identify with women, appreciate their qualities, and value them as human beings.

That said, Gendersoul, perhaps she has mixed feelings and doesn't herself understand them. It can be confusing and difficult to process. Maybe that was an easier explanation for her to settle on. Or maybe the one she considered to have the least potential to hurt your feelings.