Been a While, This is Why.....

[nothingclever]

Wow, this forum was a Godsend once upon a time. I was so alone, living with someone else's secret. I needed this place and you were here for me. Thank you. Now, let me tell you what I've learned. First, crossdressing is a sexual fetish....for some people. For most who indulge, it is absolutely not. I don't care one iota what you say, if you want to be perceived as a woman, if you want to be treated, seen, desired as a woman....it is NOT a sexual fetish. It is a form of body dysmorphia. Your brain and your body are in conflict. Your brain is telling you that you are a woman, you are happy when you're dressed as a woman. Don't mess with the people who love you. TELL THEM THE TRUTH. Tell yourself the truth. Accept it. You want to be a girl and you are hopelessly stuck. In a man's body, in a society that doesn't understand you. I get it. To a point, I get it. You do not have the right to hurt other people, I don't care anymore about how hard it is to keep your secret. You are hurting people with your half truths, your lies if you don't FULLY disclose. Body dysmorphia can manifest in various ways, maybe you see yourself as fat when you are not, maybe you see your own leg as belonging to someone else, but not to you....whatever. It's real and it's your struggle, but do not expect other people to know what in the actual hell you're talking about. But do not pretend that you are not struggling with a brain/body conflict. Don't call it a sexual fetish if you want to go shopping, dining out, to work as a woman when your body is obviously male. Don't. It's confusing for everybody.
Second, it hurts loving you if I didn't look for it. It hurts that everything I thought you were is compromised by your secret. You have kept this so private that I didn't even have a chance. You led me to believe you were one person, now you're telling me there's more....and it's more than I could have ever guessed???? And YOU are offended that I'm upset? Well, I am who I told you I was. Who are you, suddenly?
You can't expect this to end well.
Third, wait....third is the same as second. It hurts loving you. Do you love me? You shop for you. Have you forgotten me? You overindulge. You even have a name for it, "the pink cloud," what about me? I'm still here. I would like to be showered with gifts. Don't stroke your stupid, selfish ego. No man goes on a big, extravagant shopping trip for a woman except in weird Victorian novels. Yeah, if you want a real deal girl experience: we BOTH get new clothes, jewelry, make-up.
The final thing I've learned: Anyone who loves you, honestly loves you, doesn't pretend to be someone they're not. No matter what, they want to be real, because their feelings are real. Body dysmorphia can be forgiven, emotional dysmorphia, not so much.....don't lie about who you are. Face it: you would't want to be lied to. Right? Open the floor for all the judgement just cause I don't buy your bull. Seriously, go ahead. Hate me for what I've said, but it IS true. You want to know what it's like to be a girl? It depends. It depends on who we love. Go ahead, bash.

[marshalynn]

You have the wright to say what ever you think, but I do not under stand any of it... Marshalynn

[Rachelakld]

wow, sorry to hear you have body dysmorphia.

[Just Nikki]

Nice rant, I don't have a clue as to what you are trying to get off your chest but I'm sure you do. Hope you feel better now.

[ReineD]

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

Nothingclever, I don't want to be hurtful but I need to ask. Do you think he ever loved you? It seems like he treated you as if he didn't. And if he never truly loved you, it doesn't make any difference whether he crossdresses or not. If he was not a crossdresser, he would have found other ways to leave you behind. Please, for your own sanity, try to move on from this person.

How to let go of toxic relationships (http://www.heysigmund.com/toxic-relationship-how-to-let-go/)


Also, two books I've read that I found helpful:

He's Just Not That Into You (https://www.amazon.com/Hes-Just-That-Into-Understanding/dp/141690977X)

Women Who Love Too Much (https://www.amazon.com/Women-Who-Love-Too-Much/dp/1416550216/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1491647452&sr=1-1&keywords=women+who+love+too+much)

[Pat]

Marshalynn -- I believe she's a GG and she's describing her relationship.

nothingclever -- glad you're back. Sorry for the pain you're carrying. I believe your advice is largely correct.

[Laurana]

AMEN!

I got an eyeful of crap because I said "Tell the truth from day one". But that is always the best way to go. Give the other person the chance to decide BEFORE getting emotionally involved.

[AlissaMurray]

Wow, what a rant. Sounds very much like things my mother would say. I agree with most of what you said and I get it. Pretty spot on with most of it. The thing is each one of us is different. We are all at different places in our lives. Some are single and living large, others are single and still in hiding. Some are married and have been for years and their SO's don't know. (bad bad) Some are married and in a DADT situation, also kinda sad. And some are married and their wives are excepting. I told mine on the first date just because. That was 5 years ago. We have been married for the last 3. I keep it all behind a closed door but she plays along and even buys me things here and there. She and I still have issues but it isn't over CDing. There is no one mold fits all here, each one of us is a little different or a lot different than the next. The one thing we can all agree on is it is nice to be able to chat in this venue. Take care and keep smiling!

[Kellitgdet]

Nicely said Alissa, I find myself in your description. There definitely is no one size fits all.
Nice to hear from you, Nothingcleaver, thanks for sharing and blowing off some steam.

[kimdl93]

I totally get this. Believing that a person is one thing, then, over time discovering that they are something else, has to be damaging to a relationship. To feel that this hidden person seems to value herself more than you as a partner...deeply wounding.

But the Truth doesn't always set us free. Knowing early may have given you a choice, but you may have been surprised by the choice you would have made "then".

When I introduced my cross dressing thing to the woman I would marry, she accepted it as a thing...a small thing. I was astonished and grateful for that acceptance. But over time, the small thing grew into a much larger, more absorbing thing. And it was the incrementally increasing self absorption that, I believe, wounded my wife so deeply and in several dimensions. Even now, more than 19 months since she asked me to leave, I feel physically ill at the thought of harming her and losing her love.

I understand your anger at losing someone you wanted and having it replaced by someone you didn't ask for. About the only way I know to escape anger, really, is through empathy. You're almost there. Maybe it would help to understand how she came to know the "truth".

Your description of this as equivalent to body dysmorphia is a good analogy in many cases. But for a moment, imagine you are that person....you feel different even as a child, but don't have the clarity that some have, or even the vocabulary necessary to label what you do feel. Some preschoolers act and seeming know, with absolute clarity, what "gender" they are in their minds. Most do not. As you grow you learn what's "acceptable" and what is not for a person based on genitalia.

Your family, friends, community and even your own body give you mixed messages. Most likely, you are attracted to girls, and not just for their clothes. Your driven by the same needs as the rest of the species, but with this nagging uncertainty. At this stage in life, you may presume its a phase, like any other teen age obsession. Maybe it will go away when you grow facial hair and have sex!

Also, remember that most human brains really don't complete maturation until we are in our mid 20's...perhaps later for some of us :). And even after we are physically, and somewhat emotionally mature, we still have conflicts between what we feel, things we are just curious about, and the things we're presuaded are simply unacceptable. The moral conflict is real. There is an almost inevitable element of self hatred built in. Is this something you would want to express to a potential life partner? Probably not.

So how does one tell the truth, when the truth is unclear, when the apparent truth is socially stigmatized, when you don't know if the truth is a transient interest or a permanent thing, and the truth changes in magnitude -waxing and waning- and in dimensions from a thing for undies, to something far more elaborate.

I'm not trying to justify "lying". I'm arguing that it is very difficult to express the 'truth" if you do not fully comprehend it.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Has he seen this?

Have you said all this clearly to him?

[terri-joe]

I am hearing that your needs for honesty is not being met due to your partner holding this secret. I am also hearing that your need for care and concern is not only being neglected by your partner, but also probably due to shifting of care due to this secret. Lastly, I am hearing a sense of loss due to a discrepancy in the understanding of a person and the raw reality of things. I am holding this space for you for as long as you need.






I am still single and probably will not fully able to empathize with the TS and I will try my best not to philosophize too much. Are you taking good care of yourself bodily and mentally? This is essential as good boundaries are the base of healthy relationships. The forum is a good support but real empathy still needs face to face support(non-biased) or knowledge of self-empathy (if possible).
Secondly, as humans, we tend to find comfort in permanency, in this case trying to form certain fixed character or idea of a person; we try to understand a person as much as possible at the start thinking so this is how he is and that’s it. However, this may pose issues since life is always a constancy of change and when changes happen, they are always uncomfortable, the degree depending on what you can accept/handle or not. The only good thing that comes out of struggle is acceptance of this nature of impermanence and finding the fun out of it, or if not, grabbing on strongly to this fixed idea of a person, unsynchronized with reality and in deeper pain and ultimate abandonment. I prefer to always be connected to life (acceptance or not, but not denial).
Thirdly, your partner hides secret out of concern of not wanting to lose a loved one, not out of pure self-indulgence or malice, as much as I wish to think. Next, what is it that YOU want (and not what he wants)? I sense a desire for connection and fulfilling needs of care so a good way is to set protective conditions/boundaries for your needs with your partner. This can be realized with a set of actions (eg. A romantic dinner date every weekend) or conditions (if you do … for X number of times, I will … <because this does not meet my needs for care>.). This is to highlight to your partner your needs matter.

My sincere 2 cents.

[Ressie]

Nothingclever your post is filled with the word you. Who are you referring to? I think you're talking about your BF, but your post comes off as if you're talking to all crossdressers that aren't fetish dressers. So you're posting a rant about your BF rather than discussing it with him right?

I disagree about your body dysmorphia assumption unless it pertains to your BF somehow. So please clarify as to who this is addressed to.

[greeneyes]

Nothingclever, I am so sorry for your experience. I do not think anyone should bash you because of it. It does sound like you have been through it. I think the main theme missing from your situation is communication. It is necessary in any relationship but especially one like this. Your SO should have been more forthcoming in the beginning. It seems the breakdown in communication only intensified from there causing resentment from you and I suspect that caused a cyclical pattern between the two of you. Are you still in the relationship? It sounds like you have ended it, but then I ask myself why you would post here if you have walked away. You obviously love this person, I can feel it in your words. I have found that I must communicate EVERY thing I feel....about this part of our lives and others in order not to let anything negativity grow. I am lucky in that my SO works very hard to reciprocate. If you are still together maybe couple counseling with someone that can help open the lines of communication would be a good place to start. I think that laying it all on the table and working backward to help heal the hurts sounds like a good idea, and that might be easier to do with a counselor or therapist. If your SO is not willing to participate then, well..that would be the answer to whether you are in a toxic relationship that you should just run from. I wish you the best.

[Leslie Langford]

nothingclever, there is a lot of truth in what you have said here, even if the hurt is coming through loud and clear and to some degree clouds your perception of this perplexing crossdressing thing that the people on both sides of the fence are struggling with.

Yes, on one hand, the logic of your "The truth shall set you free" argument seems impeccable and unassailable. Sadly, though, life isn't always that straightforward, am I am sure that you have read of many cases here where CDers followed that very advice, only to see themselves set free alright...free of their marriages and future regular contact with their children, relatives, and friends etc. who were not quite as accepting or as supportive as they had originally hoped for.

And as for your statement "I would like to be showered with gifts. Don't stroke your stupid, selfish ego. No man goes on a big, extravagant shopping trip for a woman except in weird Victorian novels. Yeah, if you want a real deal girl experience: we BOTH get new clothes, jewelry, make-up." ...well, I can't speak for you, but in my case this is a "no fly zone".

Time was, I would buy my wife pretty things that I thought would look good on her when I happened to spot such while shopping for "Leslie". And I couldn't have been that far off the mark in my choices, as she would often mention to me the many compliments that she had gotten at the office when wearing something that I had bought for her. But times change, and so do people. It's been a few years now since I have been strictly forbidden by my wife from buying her any item of female clothing - even for Christmas, birthdays, or the like - based on the totally unfounded fear that I was probably buying the exact same things in my size since I seemed to like them so much, and that would just be soooo creepy in her eyes. Even now, if we happen to be at a mall together shopping for other things, should my wife spontaneously decide to pop into either a ladies' wear store or the ladies' section of a department store, I am immediately shooed away to go elsewhere in the interim, given that my presence there would likely make her uncomfortable i.e. on the assumption that I might either be eyeing certain things to buy for myself later on, or else finding myself giving her unsolicited advice on items that she might be contemplating buying for herself .

Pity, that, but her loss, not mine...

[Teresa]

Nothingclever,
When I had most of this thrown in my face there was a simple answer," You try it !"

Being born a boy and growing up a man yet having CDing start in a traumatic way at the age of 8-9 and living with it 24/7 , a gut feeling everyday for decades and yet still trying to do the right thing that society expects .

None of this is intentional, so we have to find ways to deal with it and live with it. It's hard not to appear selfish but having a female trait brings with it female demands , that's not BS most of us truly don't know where and when we we will achieve a balance , being in a DADT situation can make that impossible at times .

The loving act is a two way thing , most of us do have deeper feelings and a greater capacity than none CDers if given the chance but instead we get total rejection , I still question how much my wife truly loved me even before she knew about my dressing .

[Stephanie47]

Yes, this is a thread from a GG. I went back and read some of her threads/comments. I do not believe her experiences are representative of many of the cross dressers on this site. As to me, I am not a woman trapped in a man's body. There is a big difference between a heterosexual male cross dresser and a transwoman. I am at ease with my male self. I am a ease with my female self. I believe you experience is your experience and directly related to the underlying person your SO may be. It sounds as if your SO is really self absorbed in her well being or seemingly lack of well being. Last year you posted that your SO blamed you for leading him down the path of sin. I intended to use the male pronoun. Obvious or at least obvious to me he is not at ease with who he is or how he acts.

Frankly, I would find it extremely difficult to remain with a man who vacillates so widely. Your post suggests to me your relationship has really degraded. I wonder why you remain with him.

[Kelly DeWinter]

You are a human being like everyone else. You have a right to your feelings too. All relationships need love and communication from both sides. Posting here is cathartic and no one is going to bash you for speaking your mind. Have you tried counseling ?

[docrobbysherry]

We live, we die. Those r the only universal truths. The rest of them r personal, foreign, strange, irrational, and temporary.

So, your truths may not be his, Clever. Or mine or anyone else's. If indeed, they r truths at all? Rather, maybe they r changing conditions, like the weather? Don't like the weather? Wait a few days and it'll change. Don't like your life? Change it! I hope u can and will do that?:thumbsup:

Unfortunately, I have found trying to get someone else to change theirs to be an excersize in futility.:thumbsdn:

[sometimes_miss]

Edit: If anything I wrote offended someone, please accept my apologies. Post removed.

[Genny B]

We don't just lie to the ones we love, we lie to ourselves. We tell ourselves that if I marry the right girl it will 'cure me'. Many of us have gone thru that and hurt the very people who mean the most to us in our lifes and they don't know it or understand it. Can we blame them when at the time we don't understand it ourselfs. All we can say is we're sorry and please don't quit being the best friend we ever had.

Genny B

[Teresa]

Genny,
I never thought marrying was going to offer a cure , at the time my experiences with GGs left me naively thinking women would accept it. Early years of marriage has so much going on my Cding was there but in the background, the problem comes when you get to a certain age and it hasn't gone away . Then the questions really start and the truth gradually appears . It is a shock to discover exactly what is hiding inside your head, that's when we need help and suddenly find DADT rather than understanding is all you get. It's so hard then to find yourself and achieve a balance .

[Tina_gm]

NC, I am truly sorry for the pain your partner is and has caused you. It simply wasnt/isn't fair to you to have been so deceived. To then try to accommodate this into your life and making such drastic changes only to be deceived still.

As much as many of us wish for this, complain about that, what NC is writing about is as real as it gets.

She isn't bashing us, or her partner for being who we are. It is the pain we leave behind in our wake of lies, deception and the passive aggressive narcissism.

I'm not speaking for everyone, but this does equate to a formidable amount of people on this forum and other forums.

Just as the classic narcissist, who start out as this wonderful giving loving person, then slowly over time begin to alter their partner. Taking more, giving less, and blaming their partners and anyone else for their actions.

All the time we hear, it's her fault, societies fault for the deception. Oh poor me....

The expectations of being the man they want us to be.... or better put, the man we once pretended to be, and did well enough to make others fall in love with that "man".

We were that man. And now we complain that we are expected to be simply what we once was.

We ask for acceptance. We ask that they change and adapt to us. How do we change and adapt to them?

If we think, if they love us enough they will accept us as women, or at least appearing and behaving as such. Shouldn't they feel the same? If he loves me enough, he can continue to be the man he once was?

The I didn't know who I was... Doesn't make it less painful for those who fell in love with who we thought we were or tried to be or pretended to be.

We have to be responsible for knowing who we are. If we discover ourselves to be more true TG then we once thought, it is we who need to make these tough choices not them. Any change in the direction of feminine, or female benefits us, while makes them have to adapt, in ways that they never anticipated. Ways that go against the grain of society and likely against their own desires of who they want their partners to be. It is not a coincidence that the women on here who are most accepting had and have the more truthful, less deceiving TG partners. It's not so much we are TG they struggle with. It was pretending we weren't and falling in love with that guy whom we pretended to be is what they most struggle with most often.

[Teresa]

Gendermutt,
I can't fully agree with your statements , We do not plan to be TG so how can we be held responsible for knowing who we are, it's a gradual revelation that in some of us takes many years to fully realise. There is no pretense or covering up in some cases , it takes time to come to terms with what is hiding inside our heads, simply wearing clothes is only part of the equation, the reason behind it run so deep in some cases. The problem is we need someone close who we believe we can to trust to find a way to work through it, occasionally we may come off the rails or find we are TS after all . I would love to be totally open and honest with my wife if I was allowed to be , I tried to put all the hiding and deceit behind me to remain a good partner, I can see now it's never going to happen. I have to live my life as it is or move out , those are my choices .

[Kelly DeWinter]

Before anyone else jumps on nothingclever, reread her OP and the threads she has started. The main issue is that her SO was not totally honest from the first conversation, and that her SO has apparently indicated a desire to live as a woman and be with a man. So in her posts she is asking is this what some in the community want then they should be upfront and honest from the beginning. Top it off that her SO is being selfish in many other areas.

We cannot blame her for feeling the anguish that she is feeling and we should certainly NOT bash her.

[sometimes_miss]

Edit: If anything I wrote offended someone, please accept my apologies. Post removed.

[Tina_gm]

Gendermutt,
I can't fully agree with your statements , We do not plan to be TG so how can we be held responsible for knowing who we are, it's a gradual revelation that in some of us takes many years to fully realise. There is no pretense or covering up in some cases , it takes time to come to terms with what is hiding inside our heads, simply wearing clothes is only part of the equation, the reason behind it run so deep in some cases. The problem is we need someone close who we believe we can to trust to find a way to work through it, occasionally we may come off the rails or find we are TS after all . I would love to be totally open and honest with my wife if I was allowed to be , I tried to put all the hiding and deceit behind me to remain a good partner, I can see now it's never going to happen. I have to live my life as it is or move out , those are my choices .
Well need to be responsible in terms of acceptance of ourselves when it comes to others. Accepting of them not being able to switch gears on a dime. Accepting an outcome of a change or an ending of a relationship if so be it.

They cannot change themselves for us anymore than we all say we can't change. We have to be responsible for accepting this.

We should, if we have circumstances of any gender variance make our partners aware of it. You knew, I knew, just about all of us knew we weren't typical or normal if one wants to use the word when it comes to gender.

As NC said, the half truths we tell are hurtful. While you say you don't agree with, you do imo seem to be making my case for me quite well. It takes time as you say for us to get our own heads around it. Years and years for many of us. Why would we expect a partner who was formed a false or incomplete knowledge of us due to our own actions and words be able to do so any quicker?

Yes, as you've said, you've tried to be a good partner, and I'm not doubting for a minute you haven't been. The problem is it is just a generic person not screwing her life up. The good partner isn't the one whom she thought she knew. You just can't blame her for feeling the way she does. And now yes you do have to make hard choices. Leave and you can be as free with gender without any limitation whatsoever. Or stay with them. Part of you gets what you want, part of you won't. Whatever serves you best wins. But accept this and be responsible for the choice you make.

[Dana44]

Oh nothingclever, I guess he has lied to you and that hurts and also breaks trust. Oh my, to have a loving woman like you, he is destructive. I hope the best for you. To get you worked up like that he must have been pretty bad. . All I can say is we love our women and try to show her that and do some of the things she wants to do. You are to be loved first and foremost. Let him know that.

[Becky Blue]

So sorry for your pain NothingClever. Its clear that whatever has happened is tearing at your heart. Without reading your other posts perhaps when he told you what he told you he was in fact lying to himself not just to you, perhaps he was in denial? Alternatively perhaps his feelings changed and when he told you it was the truth at that time? Not defending or excusing what he did just offering some possible reasons that may help you understand.

[nothingclever]

Yet again, you all amaze me....I really thought I was in for some major heat for my post. I was so frustrated and angry when I wrote it. THANK YOU for understanding and for sharing your stories and for being supportive. Yes, Reine, you're right....he probably never loved me, but his crossdressing was a HUGE factor in the breakdown of our relationship, I was a willing participant in something that I never even knew about before him and it hurt when I had to finally admit that he wasn't being honest with himself or me. I stand by my conviction that crossdressing is not just a fun, sexual "hobby" It is a real and actual body/brain collision.
To be fair, he opened me up to a way of thinking that I never knew existed. I'm not hating him, but I'm hating that he can't tell the truth. I HATE IT. He expected me to be understanding and loving, I did my best. I shopped with him, I did his makeup, I did everything I could. I wanted him to feel beautiful and loved and accepted. I got hurt. Bad. Not He's Just Not That Into You bad....
This is different. This is "who am I now" bad. I loved someone for who they were and it isn't the result ANYONE would have expected. I can't every single day remember the things I did for him while he pretends to be something he is not okay....does that make sense? He even tried to make me feel gross for loving him and telling him he looked beautiful. For the record: I adored her.
I don't know what this means I am. I started dating someone else and I accidentally touched them like I would touch Alison. It was beyond awkward. I was so embarrassed, but...how do I explain it? So now, I look like a freak and a weirdo.....who asks for anything they get in life? I don't know. I know I'm hurting. He's hurting too, but I'm tired of him not admitting who he is, hiding behind religion, forgetting that God made him and he's not bad. I'm so ****ing tired.
Judge me, I don't care. Pity, or pretend to, I don't care. This is actually happening to me and it sucks.

[Sometimes Steffi]

NC

I remember your posts about your BF and I'm so sorry for you.

I'd like to think that I would be totally honest if my SO could handle total honesty. But she can't handle it so I give her a Reader's Digest version. So, I'm not really sure what I would do with full acceptance.

But, I've spent a lot of money on therapy and have reached self acceptance. Others of us may be damaged beyond repair.

Also, I totally agree with Genny. I've been married almost 39 years, and I don't have to remind anyone that there was no Internet 39 years ago. I thought that I was the only one in the world like this and didn't even have the words to process it. At that time, I thought that any man who dressed like a woman was gay. Actually, 39 years ago gay meant happy; it hadn't even been appropriated by the homosexual community then. The only word I knew was a six-letter explicative beginning with "F". If I was 20 today, I would do things differently.



We don't just lie to the ones we love, we lie to ourselves. We tell ourselves that if I marry the right girl it will 'cure me'. Many of us have gone thru that and hurt the very people who mean the most to us in our lives and they don't know it or understand it. Can we blame them when at the time we don't understand it ourselves. All we can say is we're sorry and please don't quit being the best friend we ever had.

[jennifer0918]

I removed my comments,and choose to live my life.

[ReineD]

I've just skimmed through this thread since I last posted and there must have been quite a discussion to cause people to remove their own posts.

It seems as if the point of contention is how can a TG be truthful in the beginning when things are confusing and the TG does not know the truth. This is indeed a good point, and in this case, the TG can say to a partner that things are confusing and the TG does not know what the outcome will be. As to sexual preferences (see the OP's past threads), this shouldn't be a big mystery. Either a TG is attracted to men or the TG isn't. In any case, the TG should be honest about his sexual fantasies with a spouse/girlfriend and not pretend one thing when another is true.

But, Nothingclever described different things than gender identity confusion. She mentioned self-centered and controlling behaviors (and this is putting it mildly). There is no excuse for this, not even when someone is on their journey to discovering their gender identity.

[Nadine Spirit]

Nothingclever-

Love your post! Seriously. Within it I read someone who is far more interested in the truth than gender variance. Thank you! I love the truth. If within relationships, we don't have the truth, what else do we have? I don't think there is anything else more important to a healthy relationship than the truth. Sadly, not everybody feel the same way.

Many will say various things to avoid and justify their un-truthful positions. Personally, I just don't buy it. There are ways to tell the truth without destroying everything or making people angry. The number of discussions I have had with TG folk on this issue is staggering. Many people agree, and about an equal number disagree. And the reasons for disagreeing run the gamut. I've heard some real interesting ones. Regardless, they are justifications for doing something wrong, that makes them think they are actually doing the right thing. Sad to see because it hurts others so much, and it hurts them the most. It is a very hard sad cycle to watch. And at times it feels as if there is no stopping it because they are so convinced that they are right.

[Becky Blue]

Nadine, clearly to you truth is everything and thats your right, but perhaps to others truth is less important. In my relationship I can name quite a fee things that are more important than truth, love and respect to name two.

Reine, what if the TG (as you call them) is not simply confused, but the way they feel changes? Perhaps the changes are frequent, so at times they feel TG at other times more of a CD. It could seem like they are confused, but perhaps its more about change.

[sweetdreams]

Hi Nothingclever.

I agree with almost everything you say. I'm guessing you've experienced one of the worst scenarios. I get a sense you are generally an open and caring person. Perhaps you ended up in a no-win situation and that is sad. I wish I could say something more that might console you, but the right words escape me.

I certainly agree with honesty. Anyone I've had a close relationship with, I've brought this out early. If it wasn't acceptable things could have ended early, maybe not with zero pain but certainly before there was significant time and commitment. It's difficult to know the exact timing of sharing this knowledge with someone, but definitely earlier rather than later.

That said crossdressing is somewhat dynamic. It does change over time as do most things in life. It certainly has changed over my lifetime. As it changes, I try to be open and honest with my SO, and I ensure it's not all about me. My wife needs her man as well and to be fulfilled as a woman. In exchange she gives me a fairly long leash on my CDing. A balance is important. If she needs something I try to accommodate. We talk about things and try to be giving to each other. It's called having a relationship.

Best wishes to you nothingclever......

[Nadine Spirit]

Nadine, clearly to you truth is everything and thats your right, but perhaps to others truth is less important. In my relationship I can name quite a fee things that are more important than truth, love and respect to name two.


Becky - You and I have been down this route before and clearly we do not see eye to eye on the issue of truth. Funny how you say love and respect come before truth. Well, if someone that I don't trust says that they love me and respects me, guess what? It's kind of hard to believe them. No? Oh yeah, that's right, those that aren't interested in telling the truth can be trusted some of the times right? Doesn't that negate the entire idea of trust? Only to those of us who think trust is important and unwavering. To those who think trust can occur in some places and not others find it hard to believe that they aren't trustable.

[CONSUELO]

Well that is one person's manifesto.

[kimdl93]

Empathy can be Defined as hearing, comprehension and understanding, as best we can from the perspective of the other.

I failed to apply that last step with my ex...at least until it was too late. I have a feeling that Clever's ex is so absorbed with himself that he has failed to listen, comprehend or understand anything but his own needs. Showing empathy doesn't invalidate his needs. In effect he invalidated her feelings, needs and even her attempts to support him.