I'm Changing (help?)

[IleneD]

It was about this time a year ago I bought my very first dress for myself. I'd been under-dressing off and on for a lifetime of interest in my feminine side. This summer marks a year since coming out to my wife of 40 yrs. I love her more than life, and she me.

I came to this CD Forum to learn, and indeed I have. I've had time and the experiences of others (on this board) to ponder what this all means to me, my identity, my sense of self. For all the years past I suppressed "Ilene" and denied her, I finally took time to understand WHY. I'm still learning but I have also learned a lot about myself. Thanks, girls.

My wife asked me when we had The Talk if I wanted to be a woman. I dismissed the idea. No, I just wanted to wear the clothes. It was all about the clothes and a little bit about my inner girly self. In my rational mind, and in my explanation to her, I was a man and could never BE a woman. It was possible to live AS a woman and not BE a woman. I thought I just wanted to let the spirit of my inner girl roam free.

Over the last year I've read the accounts of others and heard my own inner voice, and my feelings. I've examined my behavior from my distant past, the things I did and things I thought at times in my life. Back then without perspective, those feelings and thoughts never made coherent sense.

I recalled how I often would say to myself "If I had a body like that, I would be dangerous."; or "If I had a vagina.... ". As a Guy, I thought I was just expressing a form of objectifying women. I'd say it almost without truly thinking about it or what it meant. I now interpret this as a way of actually telling myself that I wanted female genitalia, or that I wanted to BE a woman. What I was actually proclaiming was "I wish I was a woman." I just didn't realize what I was telling myself.

It's been that way for a long time when I see women. It's the classic CD question "Does seeing a beautiful woman make you want to dress?" If I was in a group of 5 men and a beautiful woman happened by, 4 of them would be expressing a desire to know her in a romantic or carnal way. I'd be telling myself "God, I'd look great in that dress." I wanted to be HER.

I absolutely love and honor women; perhaps to the degree of needing to join the club. I fight for women. I'm on their side always. I was literally raised by a woman, and learned throughout life at the feet of women. The most influential people in my life have always been women. I've had fantastic co-workers and service members I knew who were fantastic people and WOMEN. The key conflicts, battles, relationships and moments were centered around women. I've always believed Women to be magical living beings, with powers far beyond those of mortal males; and I believe women to be more powerful creatures than males (myself included).

I'm am finding myself lately WANTING TO BE a woman. I caught myself saying it in my mind. I see myself in my mind's eye as a woman. Not dress AS a woman. Not be a man in women's clothing. Not a hobby. I'm identifying with Ilene more often and want to be in Ilene Mode. I'm calling myself Ilene to others more often; sometimes in mostly male mode. I'm having vivid dreams about being a woman and surrendering myself romantically.

I never had a mind to transition. I believed it was all about The Clothes. It's deeper than that.
I've seen how just the news of my crossdressing has changed the valued relationship I have with my wife. I can't imagine how devastating it might be should I conclude I need to transition full time, or if I told her I WAS a woman and needed to transition.

I thank all the girls on this forum. Bless you for being here, all. Your ideas, wisdom and experience are invaluable. It likely saved my marriage and perhaps my life. I've learned much about Cross Dressing and about myself, perhaps too much. I fear losing control over my old life, but I'm excited about the possibilities of a new one too. Just when I thought I was getting it, I'm again confused.

[Karen Wilder]

It's a very hard choice, do you be true to yourself and risk hurting your wife and your long term marriage, or do you restrict yourself to dressing and expressing Ilene that way but having to repress the feeling of needing to be fully a woman.

It will be hard work and a struggle no matter which choice you make.

Hugs,

Karen

[Sarah Doepner]

I wish I had more to offer here. Many of us struggle in our effort to discover who we need to be after we have established long, meaningful and loving relationships with people we would never want to hurt. Some manage to use love and logic and maybe a little luck to find that path, others find it impossible to bring balance to their world. Regardless of what your future holds, remember you always have others who will listen and offer whatever support they can to help you. Don't be alone and don't feel like you or those you love have to rush through this. A year seems like a long time while it's happening, but in the long run of a life it's a flash. The only advice I have seen that actually makes sense is to communicate and be honest with yourself and your wife. Sometimes your priorities can be found and needs met in surprising and collaborative ways. Good luck.

[Teresa]

Ilene,
Take one step at a time, the forum can appear to open doors , I have blown hot and cold on these thoughts since joining the forum , transition may happen to some degree ,I know I have GD but also AGP . I had to look deeper into that off the forum and have come up with answers that have given me some idea on how to move forward,it doesn't suit everyone but I know the way my CDing started it explains so much.

I guess your first move is to seek gender counselling, and get your mind clear , we can become cluttered and confused without some guidance . You have tried to be honest with your wife but even so these feelings are overtaking you , I hope your wife realises this point and doesn't feel she been mislead , I know none of this is intentional, you have lived the life as a man and yet a female side has surfaced and you know you can't ignore it.

I'm sure you'll keep us posted and sincerely hope it goes well for you .

[IleneD]

Sarah,
Yes. A year is indeed a short time since I stepped through the door and out of the closet. It's been a literal rush; of events, feelings, growth, learning. All good.
Baby steps has been my creed as we, my SO and I, grow accustomed to my new personal reflections. But I see the trend here.

I have the clear sense that one of my wife's great "fears" is that her man will become a woman. She doesn't want to be married to a woman. I've gone so far, so such great lengths to open myself and the inner most parts of my being to her. It's been refreshing for both of us. But I am harboring the thought that I wish to be a woman, and have not yet shared it with her. I owe it to her. We've been good about that. It's quite a dangerous factor to bring into our on-going discussion.
Thanks, Sarah. I appreciate your words.

- - - Updated - - -

Teresa,
Bless your little UK heart. I have often read your story and narratives, and understand the depth of your inner female being. You've truly had ups/downs and struggles. I have learned quite a bit from your wisdom. Should I ever find myself in the UK again (and I would love to, as an Anglophile), I shall look you up for a pint.

You're correct. The feelings are overtaking me. My long-held self finally had the freedom to surface, and she enjoys the freedom greatly. I finally listened to the words I told myself but never integrated or believed.
Amateur psychoanalysis is always dangerous. I'm not ready for professional gender therapy. My concern is that most practitioners are already PRO-TG, and might promote a transition rather than deal with a dysphoria, etc. And... it costs (but I wonder if Medicare covers it).
I believe myself to be an otherwise well adjusted individual. I'm above average intelligence (so I am told); sometimes brilliant. Often eccentric and quirky. A functional family member and a service to my community. I'm not a danger to myself or others.
What I'm searching for, Teresa, is a pathway, a manner by which I can share my new & budding realization with her, without realizing her worst fear.

[Lana Mae]

Ilene! I have been where you are! I have gone over past thoughts and events that are significant to my femme side! I have tossed all this back and forth! When I was a teen I was going to do an amputation of my penis because I could not take it anymore! I just bit my lip and continued like a good boy! My life was spent repressing all this! Your situation is different than mine as you are still with your wife and mine has passed away! Really, really be sure of what you do or say at this point! I am sure you will make the right decision! Special hugs Lana Mae

[Laura912]

Ilene, as a former Naval officer and physician, I have a different take on the counseling decision you have made. You seem to express some uncertainty or at least concern about the charted course you are taking. This is where a good counselor can serve as a good assistant navigator and help you find your way. If you are not certain, how can your wife be certain? A good gender counselor will not be pro anything except helping the client. Consider asking Lorileah about any counselors in your area.

[Jenny22]

Sometimes the fact that 'we' change is inevitable. The girl in my heart has literally entered my soul. I've even accepted the fact that I'm now Bi-curious because of that, even imagining myself as the female in a relationship with a male. I don't know why. Its just the way it is, in my mind only. Be patient. Don't say or do anything impulsively that you may regret. Your dear wife is on your side up to now. Don't push her away. In fact, give her a hug for me and for those who think like we do. Be strong!

[Teresa]

Ilene,
I'm not sure if it will help but I find meeting other members of the TG community helps achieve a balance , talking to wives as well as CDers and one or two who have transitioned , it might even help if your wife joins you when meeting others . Also it helps to think about the clothes and styles , I know you go out but there appears to be a confusion to your appearance sometimes fully dressed and sometimes mixed mode . Maybe that would be a starting point in deciding if you want to appear all woman or try and give the impression you are trying to hold onto some of your maleness . That is something I've already decided no in between for me when out socially.

[Victoria Demeanor]

Hi Ilene,
I read your post this morning on my phone and it rang in my head all day. I more then understand your plight as I could have written this post myself. I am in a similar situation and I was hoping...oh god I was hoping I was just a crossdresser, but like you I am finding that it's much deeper. I'm not sure either how far I want or can take this and it's really been an internal struggle. I guess what I want to say is that you are not alone, I feel you sister and I hope you find your path.

[KellyJameson]

"I absolutely love and honor women; perhaps to the degree of needing to join the club. I fight for women. I'm on their side always. I was literally raised by a woman, and learned throughout life at the feet of women. The most influential people in my life have always been women. I've had fantastic co-workers and service members I knew who were fantastic people and WOMEN. The key conflicts, battles, relationships and moments were centered around women. I've always believed Women to be magical living beings, with powers far beyond those of mortal males; and I believe women to be more powerful creatures than males (myself included)."


Based on your words I strongly urge you not to transition. You worship women and this is clearly from being a male and comes out of male sexuality combined with the influence of women and possible dislike/contempt of and toward men . If you follow your sexuality and worship of women down the road of transitioning you could be risking your mental well being.

No woman thinks about women the way you do. Only men talk and think this way or they go to the other extreme and hate women which is simply the other side of the same coin

Here is a video link that talks about the psychological roots in men related to women and where your attitudes started https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-o2nnDF_So

Please do not treat your body as an alter to be built into the thing you worship. This will lead you down a dark path and has nothing to do with actual identity, which is adopted subconsciously in childhood as a mind knowing itself in another.

Your sexuality and past experiences with women has brought you to thinking you are a woman. This is not a true identity as that unquestioning knowing what you are since childhood.

[kimdl93]

Ilene, self talk can be a very convincing and irresistible force, with the power to create and reinforce beliefs, even to the point of redefining ourselves over time. Be careful. Think slowly, and question everything.

Romanticized notions of womanhood are an exaggeration. Women and men can be equally admirable, beautiful, honorable, moral, ethical, loving, giving, etc. One doesn't become the thing one admires. Yes, you may choose to emulate the attributes of those you admire and respect, hopefully, its those inner qualities, and not superficialities.

[DIANEF]

Hi Ilene, not much to add to what has already been said but my thoughts are with you. I can relate in a minor way to what you are feeling. Others have said they adore women, I do too, everything about them and if I had a magic wand?, well.... There have been times when I really wanted to be a woman, but at the same time I have never had the 'woman trapped in a mans body' thought. Transitioning is just about the biggest step a person can make, and only if you're 100 percent sure it is the right thing to do should you follow that path.

Diane.

[ClosetED]

I think Kelly has it correct. It is also why they require a year of living as a woman first - do you need any surgical changes compared to just living as a woman to get what your desire or find out what your dreamed of is not supported by reality?
What will having a vagina add to you being a woman? Do you desire to have sex with a man into you that way? Or you think society, which will not see that area, will then accept you as Ilene?
I fight for women. I believe I am on their side. But think it out - what real benefits do you expect from surgical changes?
Hugs, Ellen

[SheriM]

Ilene, I was laying in bed last night thinking of writing a post about my desire to dress/live as a woman or actually be a woman. Your post sounds a lot like what I was going to write.

[ginapoodle]

Ilene,

Since age 11 or so I have wanted to be a "girl". At age 62 I think I am moderate or average on the gender dysphoria scale. Hence at times I have strong desire to be fully female. Other times, no. For me, the solution is occasional dressing, and also a mental/emotional/spiritual shift to embracing my feminine self. The opportunity costs are high for transitioning. When my wife and I started counseling about a decade ago, the gender specialty therapist asked me "do you want to be a woman". Wow, stopped me cold. My answer was "I don't know". And that is the truth, and the therapist worked from that foundation with both myself and my wife.

Others, in my opinion, have that dysphoric needle pegged on high. A good friend is transitioning right now with great grace, courage and persistence. She amazes me, yet we are different.

Walk your own path, but with time, care and though. A good professional counselor is a wise step, including your wife in sessions.

Blessings

[sometimes_miss]

I'd been under-dressing off and on for a lifetime of interest in my feminine side.
and

For all the years past I suppressed "Ilene" and denied her
OK, first thing to address, is we don't have 'sides'. It's all you. Your desire to distance yourself from what you want expresses lack of acceptance in being feminine in any way. Not unusual at all, most of us go through that, having been raised in a way that for a male to be feminine in any way is the worst thing we can possibly be. Got to get over that first. So let's stop referring to yourself in third person, as if it's somebody else. It's YOU. It's all YOU. Baby steps, baby steps.


My wife asked me when we had The Talk if I wanted to be a woman. I dismissed the idea.
then

I'm am finding myself lately WANTING TO BE a woman. I caught myself saying it in my mind.
So the desire was there. You just couldn't accept it. Why? Because it would throw a wrench in the whole works. But at least now we've established what you really want. Now the big question becomes, why?

"If I had a body like that, I would be dangerous."; or "If I had a vagina.... ".
So, what exactly could you do 'with a body like that' or with a vagina, that you can't do now? What would be your goal? Almost sounds like you have some particular desire to do something, rather than just BE something (be a female, for example).

I'd be telling myself "God, I'd look great in that dress." I wanted to be HER.
OK, you want to look like a beautiful woman, and actually be one. In order to do what?

I'm having vivid dreams about being a woman and surrendering myself romantically.
There we go. So, who are you 'surrendering' yourself to? That's a big part of what decides this.

I've seen how just the news of my crossdressing has changed the valued relationship I have with my wife. I can't imagine how devastating it might be should I conclude I need to transition full time, or if I told her I WAS a woman and needed to transition.
Essentially, before going to that extreme, perhaps decide what you need from all this.

I fear losing control over my old life, but I'm excited about the possibilities of a new one too. Just when I thought I was getting it, I'm again confused.
Actually, you ARE starting to 'get it'. But you're still afraid of where it might lead, as the options (homosexuality, bisexuality, or being transsexual) are all probably unacceptable to not only what you've been brought up to believe, but to all those around you as well. And theres your dilemma.
Please understand, I sympathize with the problem. I went through a similar type of problem 20 years ago when I was married to someone who would never be able to get her head around being married to a guy who wasn't 'all masculine, all the time'. Didn't matter whether I didn't dress in front of her, the mere knowledge that I wasn't the always strong, always protective knight she imagined she needed, was the straw that broke the camel's back.
In short, perhaps you'll need to find a way to live with not having EVERYTHING you want out of this, in order to preserve the life you currently have. Difficult, I know. Life gets that way sometimes.
Have you been to a therapist? Try carrying a 3x5 notepad, and writing down when you get the urge to be female, and what was going on immediately before you had that thought. Then discuss with your therapist what might be triggering you in these moments. It may not be as complicated as you think, only something that you're blocking out for the previously mentioned reasons.

[Aunt Kelly]

Ilene, you probably know what I'm going to say...
You'll get lots of support here, and gobs of advice, but you said it yourself. You're looking for help. You should talk to a pro about how you're feeling. It seems like the confusion has reached the point where it's causing you some distress. Seems like now would be a good time to get some help sorting things out. The best kind of help comes from someone trained and experienced in dealing with issues like ours.

Hugs,


Kelly

[CD Rachel]

Ilene,

Thank you for sharing this. For the past year I have had similar thoughts and questions. Your sharing and the response from this community has literally brought tears to my eyes. I see so much value here in sharing our thoughts with one another and in the sharing we all grow wiser and and closer. This is the whole reason I am here.

As you have shared with us you are a rational and intelligent person so I know that you will not rush into anything and that is probably the best way to go. I am so glad that I read this post, please know that my hopes and prayers are for you tonight.

Rachel

[Sometimes Steffi]

Ilene, as a former Naval officer and physician, I have a different take on the counseling decision you have made. You seem to express some uncertainty or at least concern about the charted course you are taking. This is where a good counselor can serve as a good assistant navigator and help you find your way. If you are not certain, how can your wife be certain? A good gender counselor will not be pro anything except helping the client. Consider asking Lorileah about any counselors in your area.


I strongly suggest that you consider that you consult a therapist before you jump off the deep end. A good therapist should be able to ask you the hard questions, listen to your responses and be judgement free.

I've reached the point where I am very satisfied with the amount of girl time that I have. It's a compromise with my wife that we both can live with.

[TrishaTX]

I also agree that so e lengthy therapy is in order. Decisions like this are life changing and only a good gender therapist can assist in helping make the right decision. It has helped me allot over the past few years and I hope it does the same for you.

[phili]

Ilene,
I've been confidently saying I don't want to be a woman, but keep dressing and acting like one- partly. 'Partly' is the keyword. Every day I try to speak out loud the answer to "Why are you wearing this dress?" And sometimes I start feeling that all the dressing gets a bit tiresome- which is good, since I no longer need a dress to feel perfectly feminine. It is also 'bad' because I wish dressing wasn't so loaded as a message, so it was easier to be casual in my close in world.

On the days I start and end in feminine mode, I miss my manly experiences. To a large degree, the world of man or woman is the same- i.e. with respect to non gender-influenced choices. Where we have a choice, I've argued elsewhere that we felt we were/are denied various forms of expression and experience as men, and want the expression and experience that women are allowed [and often compelled to use, which ruins it.]

You mention wanting to surrender- and for me, this has been a key part of what motivates my dressing- to display myself as eligible to be desired by someone to whom I could surrender. But surrender I have, and found that it is no what I want as a steady diet, either. I think most of us want more variety, more customization of our options to our desires, etc., and wit all our hearts we reject the boxes that we are put in as men. It is worth remembering that women are put in awful boxes as well. What seems like freedom to us is slavery to them, if they are not able to escape- to take charge rather than surrender, for example.

So I am arguing to myself, and offering this to you- think about what you want, and don't assume you actually can't have it as a male. Not having to change biology or wife, just makes sense if it will actually succeed in bringing you to peace. We have to know what we want, try to have it, given the relationships we have, and insist when it is really important. Anyone who loves us will respond to that- and at the fundamental level, I've found that the dress is my badge, but it has nothing to add to the feeling of surrender. Dresses are like dreams of being a princess, and women find soon enough that the badge or uniform does not make a good life. I've found I too- and the dreams of being a woman may represent a jump you feel you have to make, to meet your as yet unmet desires to be and feel whole- the complete person you already are, aching to be known, even to yourself.

[IleneD]

Lexi;

WOW, girl. You've given me a lot of digest in your response. Hard to face to stuff. Real stuff. A view from an added perspective.
This sound precisely like the kind of process you've experienced.
I tell you with all my heart, and to all those who have encouraged me to speak to a Therapist. ........ thank you.

SometimesMiss.... I shall get back to you. Perhaps we can have a frank discussion of your many (good) points on the side.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, Kelly.

Find a professional.
I'm so comfortable in my female clothes. I'm comfortable in my female identity; even in public.
I just had my 65th birthday about a week ago. Eligible for Medicare. It was time anyway for a Life Review. CD came up high on the list
Thank you, Kelly. Thanks to all you you who have offered an opinion, and especially the encouragement to seek professional gender therapy help.

- - - Updated - - -

Steffi, dear.
I will NOT jump off any deep end. Trust me.
I am taking baby steps and slow steps all the way. The last thing I need to do is break something valuable while trying to fix MY life (that doesn't need fixing; it's been quite amazing and fun to this point)

But I need something .... something out of this (strange) crossdressing habit and self-sense I should have been/ want to be a woman. This forum, as grand and wise as it is, is also pro-CD/TG, pro-dressing and pro-transition. It's a great place to learn. It's also a great place to find support and insulation.

I hear your advice and call for professional help. It seems to be a consensus of those who have walked in my heels before. It may be a while, but I need to seriously consider it. (Does Medicare cover this?).
Thank you. Bless you.

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Trish,

Thanks for the advice about the therapist. I shall give it serious consideration.
The consensus of the Forum seems to be "seek therapy". Yours' seems to have worked.
I'm not mentally ill. I'm Me, and I'm having a lot of difficulty getting over the mental health/therapist hump.
Appreciate the help, girl. Really do.
Hugs

[Becky Blue]

Ilene, thanks for sharing. I don't think what you are going through is that uncommon called late onset...

I think some of the posts above may have ignored the timelines of your original post. If I understand you are saying you used to look at women and think if only I looked like her etc etc. But that now your feelings have changed and that you feel you want to be a woman and that it is now not about how you dress but how you feel inside.

Classic CD behavior is to see a gorgeous woman and want to dress like her, but now it is how you feel all the time, no matter what you are wearing?

[Aunt Kelly]

There it is, Ilene. You said it yourself. You're not mentally ill. Intellectually, that's easy enough to accept, but the notion that we "need professional help" can push some powerful emotional buttons. When we lack the requisite skills, we don't balk at hiring a plumber, mechanic or surgeon, but when it's dealing with thoughts and emotions we just can't let go of that stigma, however undeserved and counterproductive it may be. That difficulty is a product of our culture and common enough to be called "normal", so please don't beat yourself up over it. There's also the possibility that you're a little bit afraid of answering those "hard questions" that Steffi mentioned. Again, normal. When, or if, it becomes important enough to answer those questions for yourself, you'll go, and if consensus in this thread is any indication, be glad that you did. Meanwhile, you seem to be on an agreeable path so enjoy it, already. :)

Hugs,


Kelly

[Sometimes Steffi]

Steffi, dear.

I will NOT jump off any deep end. Trust me.
I am taking baby steps and slow steps all the way. The last thing I need to do is break something valuable while trying to fix MY life (that doesn't need fixing; it's been quite amazing and fun to this point)

But I need something .... something out of this (strange) crossdressing habit and self-sense I should have been/ want to be a woman. This forum, as grand and wise as it is, is also pro-CD/TG, pro-dressing and pro-transition. It's a great place to learn. It's also a great place to find support and insulation.

I hear your advice and call for professional help. It seems to be a consensus of those who have walked in my heels before. It may be a while, but I need to seriously consider it. (Does Medicare cover this?).
Thank you. Bless you.


Trish,

Thanks for the advice about the therapist. I shall give it serious consideration.
The consensus of the Forum seems to be "seek therapy". Yours' seems to have worked.
I'm not mentally ill. I'm Me, and I'm having a lot of difficulty getting over the mental health/therapist hump.
Appreciate the help, girl. Really do.
Hugs


My therapy also worked. More than anything else, it got me to a point of accepting myself -- both of me (see my signature) -- but I don't feel that I need to transition.

Also, I got over the fear that going to a therapist made me a "mental case", to use a (non-politically-correct) term from my youth.

I didn't seek a financial analyst (because I could easily figure out the answer myself). My wife and I may be able to afford to live out our lives out comfortably on my retirement, my social security, my IRAs, her social security, her IRSs, etc., provided we stay together. Neither of us will have an enjoyable retirement if we have to split the retirement in half.

There are also some chronic, possibly life ending medical conditions that we both have. I'd prefer not to face mine alone, and I would prefer to abide by my vow of "in sickness and in health" with respect to her medical conditions. I'd also like to be able to "walk my daughter down the aisle" if she can find someone who will "put up with her" (she is very strong willed) while I can still walk.

So, I'm willing to compromise, but "never dressing ever again" is not the compromise I'm looking for. Right now, the compromise I have is acceptable to me. I guess you have to consider how far you are willing to go.

[IleneD]

I am so thankful to hear the voices of those who have walked in my Heels.
There are many frequent refrains sung across this board, and mine is one of them.

I say I "want to be a woman", because that's the realization of what I've whispered to myself, unbeknownst, all my life. A desire to be a woman.
That isn't to say I WANT TO BE A WOMAN in the future. The desire and thought admittedly exists as a possibility. But no, I don't mean "want" misunderstood with a plan or vision to become.

Thank you all who answered my post and continued to discuss it from your many perspectives. This is the true value of this forum. You have me recommendations I wouldn't have devised on my own, and things to seriously self-examine. Bless you all.

[Tina_gm]

I am glad you are taking time to really consider all of this Ilene. If you do ever decide its time to take further steps you will know. And it won't be wrong, for you. I really do not like the pushing and shoving that goes on in these forums. When we have lived a substantial portion of our lives as men, including marriage, a lifetime career, kids, maybe grandkids.... That is A LOT to alter. Yeah, I have felt the I wish I was a woman many times. I am going to go out on a big limb here and say that most CDers have felt this at some point. Probably like me, more than once.

Again, I would never suggest someone not jump into the girl pool. Just make sure that It is because it is right for you and you are doing so without reservation.

[GretchenM]

Hi Ilene,

I suspected you might head in this direction. Perhaps you recall, I was there in December 2012. It is a difficult point to be at, but seeing a therapist at our local gender identity center here in Denver was a lot of help. You might want to drop in there and explain what it is you are going through and see if they are willing to help you find your way through this difficult stage. Believe me, it is well worth it. And the support groups there are full of loving and caring trans people of all flavors. It complements the therapy and is well worth while even without the therapy. You get to meet a wide variety of people and talk to them and listen to others tell of their difficulties and see how others help them.

I also suggest you get a copy of a really wonderful book that is very helpful in seeing what is involved in transition. It is called "Wrapped in Blue." Amazing personal account of a very athletic person not terribly different from you and her journey from He to She. You are at a cross-roads just like I was a few years ago. I can't advise you on the path you should take - that is your choice. Don't rush the resolution; it will come. But do consider getting some guidance from a pro in helping you to choose. Well worth it every minute.

You will always have my support.

Love,
Gretchen

[ginapoodle]

Ilene,

You are fortunate to have local resources and support. Something came to my mind, from some metaphysical studies:

"there are no mistakes, there are only choices"

Find your path. Also remember U turns are allowed in life.

blessings

[IleneD]

Gretchen,

I'm so glad you read my post. You know me (in a way).
And I so value your knowledge base on the topics of CD/TG. You are well versed AND with hands on experience so to speak; and you know the local resources.
No doubt I'll be getting up with you soon. But I need some weeks to let this all settle in. Swallowing my own realization that this (being a woman) is what I've always asked for, was a proverbial light bulb in me figuring out what this all means, and why.

I need some breathing space but some time this summer, maybe in June, I'll give you a call.
With all my heart. Hugs.

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When we have lived a substantial portion of our lives as men, including marriage, a lifetime career, kids, maybe grandkids.... That is A LOT to alter.

Mutt,

You get it. You have a sense of what I'm up against and facing. Like I said.... we don't live your lives in a vacuum; most of it in man-form. Thanks. While everyone is almost unanimous in recommending Counseling, you are one of the few voices to remind of of where I've been and where I come from.

Thanks. Hugs.

[Sometimes Steffi]

Ilene

One thing that crossed my mind (hey, a double entendre)

You might look back on the (physically) beautiful girl you admired in the past, but that shipped has sailed. The youthful girl you wanted to be in your 20's is gone, never to be seen again, except in your imagination. You could still become a beautiful woman, but will that satisfy you? Is it worth giving up everything you have to become a beautiful 65 y.o. woman? Caitlyn Jenner has the resources to afford the best plastic surgery that man can buy. And while she appears to be beautiful, her neck and her hands give away her age. Just saying.

[GretchenM]

Ilene,

That is fine. Take your time. Just know that although there are differences in the way we approach all of this there are commonalities as well and support in your journey is what I offer. It is a difficult stage and hard to work out all on your own. Nevertheless, many do it and find that zone of comfort and happiness that fits them. It is an evolutionary stage you are in, but it can also be a revolution.

Gretchen

[DMichele]

Ilene,
I can so relate to many experiences of your journey. For example, I too would envy a woman and want to be her rather than have a romantic relationship with her. Through this forum (thank you ladies for sharing your experiences, joys and trials) I have come to realize that I am a woman that has put on a male façade for 5+ decades. Today, I am truly happier after coming to accept my transgender non-binary identity, and strive to be authentic regardless how I present. I am considering gender-identity therapy and HRT; but in the meantime, I am in a good place and strive to just be me (i.e. Michele).

I wish you lots of happiness going forward.

[IleneD]

Ilene
You could still become a beautiful woman, but will that satisfy you? Is it worth giving up everything you have to become a beautiful 65 y.o. woman? Caitlyn Jenner has the resources to afford the best plastic surgery that man can buy. And while she appears to be beautiful, her neck and her hands give away her age. Just saying.

Thanks (again), Steffi;

Another great point and thing I have considered when factoring my CD motivations and root causes; the effects of my own aging and the loss of my own (male) natural "beauty", or at least the youthful appearance. Perhaps as I aged, I have thought, I am using CD and make up to defeat old age. I'm not sure it's a strong motivator, but I certainly believe many of my forum sisters when they say that dressing takes 10+ years off their appearance.

BTW... funny that Jenner came up. I can't go into detail but I am (obviously) from the same generation as Jenner, and coincidentally played collegiate level sports against Jenner when he was The Bruce. When I first heard of her TG transition and all the news about it, I was surprised as anyone....... surprised that someone -another 'manly-man' - had the same life "issues", [or something similar] to mine; and apparently far more profound. Yes, her story touched me. And NO, I don't have the resources or the rational interest to proceed down Caitlyn's path. There are other means of dealing with my beloved interior Ilene rather than remodeling the exterior or rebuilding the house.

[laura.lapinski]

Ilene, I don't think there is any way of sharing your thoughts on being a woman with your wife without upsetting the both of you. I know this is extremely difficult for you and your wife. If you keep it inside yourself, you will probably eat yourself alive in some sort of way. If you bring it out, then its your wife that will be hurt. I hate that life has to seemingly always work this way. Why can't it always be a win-win situation? Anyway, this is why it is painful for you to contemplate. You know inside that no matter what you do it will be uncomfortable. I have similar dilemmas in my life, not related to CD, but still situations that are all consuming to ponder. I'm so sorry you are suffering. So sorry anyone has to suffer with these decisions. I admire the ones who are able to overcome these forks in the road and keep moving forward, and that goes for any emotional decisions, not just CDing ones. Nobody can, or should tell you what to do. This is a personal decision, because only you are the one that will walk the path. The best you can do is try to evaluate both sides of the equation and decide what is more important to you. Whatever the case, try to lower your anxiety about it as much as possible. No use worrying about what hasn't happened yet. Try to be as happy as you can today, with what life is today. I wish you all the best.

[Teresa]

Gendermutt,
To me the pushing and shoving isn't totally for Ilene's benefit much of what she's says is something we've been through or still gong through, some of us are possibly thinking aloud about the actions we might have to take , we also get feedback for our own situation through Ilene's question, our circumstances are all slightly different we might see a solution from another person's reply.

[Tina_gm]

Teresa, what I mean by pushing and shoving is from those who just think we HAVE to get out there or be that, or whatever, and it should always come 1st. Something I don't agree with UNLESS our entirety of our being is compromised to the point of torture and misery. So I never say it's wrong to do so. But likewise I don't think it's wrong not to do so. It all depends on what is harder, giving things up for it, or living without it being in any way compromised.

Ilene, there can be quite a difference between wanting to be female and realizing you are one internally. I'm not venturing any suggestions as to which you are.

Those who want to be female do so primarily because of convenience. To be able to freely express their femininity without any issues. Some have stopped transition or have de-transitioned when they realized it wasn't about being female, it was about feminine expression.

[DanielleDubois]

Just a brief comment and I'm not sure if it has been mentioned before but from what I have read transitioning at an older age ( and I am your age) is associated with a number of increased health risks.

[Meghan4now]

Ilene,

I have been on break for 40 days. I would have responded earlier otherwise. But reading this thread, I am glad I did not yet. I think the advice here has been very insightful. One of the best threads I've seen here in a long time, and some of the best commentators.

My take on it is that while we try to get beyond the why question, we never really do. Life is not so simple where we arrive at a state and then stay there, happy and fulfilled. Instead as things happen we are constantly reevaluating, reinventing, growing, changing, dying. It is in trying to live our lives by our values that really matters. The conditions in our lives do not define us, but can have influence on how we react to life. But remember we ultimately guide our own fate. Sometimes we need to clear our minds to see the path again.

I think you should take some time to remove yourself from the immersion of "making a choice" and try to look down the path.

My prayers are with you.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Ilene :hugs:, You have already got a lot of great answers...:daydreaming:...

Be sure to read line #4 in my signature !

[IleneD]

Meghan,

I am so pleased you responded. I so respect your presence and contributions on the forum; not just the fluff stuff.
There's one thing about how you as Meghan come across on the forum. You definitely protray someone who is satisfied, built a good place for their feminine side within their very real male life, and supported by your SO. This isn't to say that you've "nailed the landing" on CD life, but you do seem quite at peace.

Love your thought on Values. Thanks for the reminder to step away from things for a while to gain perspective. That's what I'm doing now following a period of full time dressing. As you gathered, Meg, my real "issue" is my own self-realization that this is something I've been wanting all my life; that I've had a desire to be a woman. I finally dug up the evidence on myself after a year of 'coming out'.

I like and appreciate your recommendation to remove myself from immersion. There's no crisis,..... and frankly, I am not anguishing over the revelation or the thought. There's no need to move with speed. Looking forward as to what this MEANS, is very good advice.
Thanks.

[rachael.davis]

Hi Ilene

You're of an age (so am I) that there was no vocabulary for transgendered when you were twenty, the resources (such as they were) were generally porn, semi porn, or ridiculous "dirty paperbacks" with plots that would make fictionmania blush.
You're re examining a lot of assumptions, take some time, find a decent GI counselor, remind your wife how many decades of your life you have dedicated to her, sit down and have a nice cup of tea....
You didn't get here overnight, you shouldn't make any rushed decisions on where you're going from here

[IleneD]

Orchid,

So much respect for you too. You've walked in my heels, I believe.

I am not so worried about REALIZING it. I'm more interested in a logical, rational path forward while not a bit of this makes sense to a single soul except me.
I read your words about wishing and know you are wise.
You know, .... a part of me finds it quite interesting that, at my age, I'm still searching Life; the life known as Me.

I am not distressed. Hugs, darling. Some day I shall go back to my old Navy stomping grounds in MD, and perhaps visit new ones.
Thank you.

- - - Updated - - -


Hi Ilene; You're of an age (so am I) that there was no vocabulary for transgendered when you were twenty, the resources (such as they were) were generally porn, semi porn, or ridiculous "dirty paperbacks" with plots that would make fictionmania blush.

Rachael,

Thank you for the kind words and ones of understanding my background and demographic (so to speak).
I've thought about an aspect of what you stated. When I was a young man every male human being that engaged in gender or sexual behavior outside the prescribed social definition of "manliness" (for the 50s & 60s), was simply lumped under the umbrella of Queer. (Can we use that word here within the terms of service? Don't mean to offend. Just making a point._
Male homosexuals were queer; as were bisexuals, transgenders, transexual (males), and of course, crossdressers. Any man that appeared "girly' or effeminate was - in the term of the time - Queer. BTW, there were worse terms.
But if You (meaning, I) liked to don women's clothing, you were a queer man, and there was no getting around it. The general misunderstanding of the time was huge. Crossdressing, in effect, meant you were also gay; a homosexual. I tell you with all my heart, Rachael, for the longest time I carried that confusion along with me.

Knowing what I know now about myself and the lessons of Forum member experience I have enjoyed I'm beginning to put all of it into perspective.

PS: To moderators. I didn't use my Q-term in a pejorative nor as an insult. Just a manner of making a fair point about a time long ago.

[Sheren Kelly]

To add to the discussion,
Great advise that was given me was "to not outrun your headlights". Most of us seek clarity through the experiences of others on this path, but ultimately you have to follow the quiet voice in your soul and chart the best course for our individual circumstances. The question of transition should be addressed when you run out of options in your current situation.

For me, I believe I will have to wrestle with gender dysphoria for the rest of my life, it is a part of me (as I said in my PM to you: "I'll always be a square peg trying to fit in a round hole"). I experience GD more as Gender Envy, knowing that I am male, but wishing I had been born female. I am trying to gradually bring in more feminine expression into my daily life (beyond simply dressing the part). It has been harder than I thought due to the baggage people of our generation share (i.e. femininity in a male is somehow detestable). I am grateful for those who have fought to make the public aware that transgender people have always been part of society; and that I now live in a place where I can get out regularly and at least sample what life could be like had I been born female.

[Sometimes Steffi]

Ilene

Your comment about "queer" rings true, except the only "queer" that I knew about were gay men. If you were a crossdresser, you were gay (not the word we used then). And if you were effeminate both in appearance and comportment -- like Jack on "Will and Grace", rather than Will -- you were gay.

It didn't help that a gay man hit on me in my late teens and again in my early 20s. I didn't know the word "gaydar", but I understood the concept. What did these guys see in me that made them think I was gay.

Even one of the therapists (not a very good one obviously) told me that I was gay. After my first visit! Fortunately by then, I could conceptualize this. I even ran an experiment to test the hypothesis. I worked out at the gym several times a week, so I tried to assess if any of the dudes were "attractive". The thought of it grossed me out. Conclusion: Not gay. Corollary: Get a new therapist (which I did). BTW, the new therapist told me that I wasn't gay (after a number of visits) and that any licensed therapist who told me that after a single visits should lose her license.

[IleneD]

Steffi:

Back then, playing in Mom's makeup and clothing (as a young adolescent), .... the society was telling me that I was gay or queer. Boys who wore dresses were queer. Men who liked women's things were queer. Men who liked men were queer. It was easy to convince myself, even beat myself up , over the possibility of being gay. So confusing. So confusing...... and no one to speak with in those times.
Bless you, Steffi. Love you, sister. Really do.

- - - Updated - - -

Cap Kelly;

Darling, I wish I could reach across this board and hug you. I mean it. I absolutely love your story and your attitude.
Your second paragraph sounds "so me". I've considered the "Gender Envy", and you can see in my own comments below how much I admire women. I don't know if I and Ilene are TG, but I know we're one and the same. Your note about gradually bringing more feminine and female items into your every day life and expression is so true. It is one of the things I have found myself doing. Wearing lipstick (in allegedly male mode). Earrings, panties and underdressing 24/7. More leggings and leggings every day.

Frankly.... if I'm swimming in my life crisis, I am having a fun time of it. I just need to be very careful of how (or why or even if) I should proceed. There's still many questions to be answered about what I want out of this CD thing, who I am and who I wish to be.

Cap. You have my heart, girl. Press on. I love what you're doing and admire you.
Hugs and thanks for checking on me.

[Teresa]

Ilene,
Your first paragraph in reply #47 is so true, I think for our age group that was the stigma, especially when being a homosexual had not long been legalised . Any adult who dressed in those days had it far tougher than we do now, he risked being physically attacked if he was gay and worse if he was a CDer . Living in fear and knowing most of society probably hates you doesn't bare thinking about , how lucky we are that we do have a far more open society .

[IleneD]

OK, first thing to address, is we don't have 'sides'. It's all you.
Actually, you ARE starting to 'get it'. But you're still afraid of where it might lead, as the options (homosexuality, bisexuality, or being transsexual) are all probably unacceptable to not only what you've been brought up to believe, but to all those around you as well.
Try carrying a 3x5 notepad, and writing down when you get the urge to be female, and what was going on immediately before you had that thought.

Sometimes Miss,

Wow. Your insight into CD and people in general is impressive.
Thanks for the reminder about "sides". When I first began to (self-)analyze my gender/sexual identity issues, I never felt I had a dual personality, another person inside of me, another entity or someone trapped inside me. You're correct. It was and IS always Me. I never even had a femme name for "her" until I came to this forum and the board requested a Nome de Femme.

Your comment about "you ARE getting it", stopped me in my tracks. It was quite a slap upside the head, and a reminder. Without launching into a major discussion about battling my own perceived homo/bi-sexuality, there is grain of truth to it if past is prologue. I had some gay experiences as a young man, part of coming to grips and exploring my gender/sexual identity. It was psychological dynamite. Produced a lot of guilt and shame to what I was internally processing. I have to take those experiences into account NOW, at long last, as I put everything into perspective. I haven't forgotten those parts of my puzzle, but thanks for the hard reminder.

I agree with your "take notes" recommendation; and I've long kept a journal (actually series of journals going back decades) ....., not a diary BTW. I've been keeping notes on my CD/gender thoughts, motivations, experiences, ideas, etc. A very good thing.

I sent you a PM. You are obviously well studied. I read our life narrative. Thanks for the honesty.

[sometimes_miss]

Sometimes Miss, Wow. Your insight into CD and people in general is impressive.
Sometimes. Hence, the moniker. Nearly all of it learned while trying to figure out my own life.
BTW, your inbox is full. I tried to PM you but it won't go.

[GretchenM]

I think keeping a journal is really critical at a time like the one you are in - no matter what the issue. Back in 2012 and 2013 during the big wrestle, I wrote and wrote and wrote. When I look back at the journal and the thoughts put down there I can see just how amazingly confused and variable I was. But as I read different entries in a time sequence I can see how I was working it out, even though at the time it didn't seem like it. I don't keep a gender journal now because I am quite stable with regard to that. There is just something about putting your thoughts down on paper that helps you find your way. Keep it up and if you are working on a computer back it up. If you do take the transition route that journal may be a valuable resource if you need to get approval from psychiatrists for surgeries or whatever. But even if not it is a priceless resource for yourself. We all tend to forget as our memories tend to be selective. But the hen scratching on the paper doesn't lie or select. Thank goodness we have language.

[IleneD]

Sometimes,

Thanks for responding. BTW, the Inbox is cleared out. (Sorry. Didn't understand the limits of the email system).