"The Talk" happened this morning

[GretchenJ]

After many many years my wife found an article of clothing that I could not explain away, she calmly called me upstairs and thus began the talk.

There was no yelling, and the only tears came from me, explaining to her my fear of not disclosing this to her before.

The only questions from her was am I having an affair, and was I sexually attracted now to men, this was not an issue because the only person that I was and ever in love with was the person I was having this discussion with. After explaining to her that this had nothing to no with sexuality, but more with a change of identity
After asking of what she needed from me, she had no restrictions


Staying true to my vows is not even work, she is the best thing that even entered my life, and the fear of losing her was the only reason that I have told her earlier.

i am sure there will be other questions, the least I can do is to answer them with the utmost honesty

I love her so much !

[~Joanne~]

Alls well that ends well ;) now just make sure you don't go into that pink fog and start ramming your CDing down her throat at every turn and things may even turn out to be fine and non issue after awhile. You both may enjoy shopping together a lot more also.

[Lacey86]

Wow! Sounds like you got something out in the open and she was receptive. I imagine hiding this would cause a lot of anxiety and other issues so congrats on taking a step forward to being closer to your spouse!

[Pat]

Gretchen, that's awsome! Congratulations. :)

[GretchenJ]

Alls well that ends well ;) now just make sure you don't go into that pink fog and start ramming your CDing down her throat at every turn and things may even turn out to be fine and non issue after awhile. You both may enjoy shopping together a lot more also.

Thanks Joanne,

She said that she would want to be engaged as much or not at all, depending on how I wanted. I love my life with her so much, I will continue to keep this part of me distinct and separate, I don't need to have my wife involved in this, in return I will not do anything to mistrust me and to be onboard and honest going forward

it all so uplifting, I am still crying about it.

[Gabriella111]

That's wonderful. I'm so happy for you, Gretchen! :)

[AllieSF]

Congratulations about the wonderful response from your wife. That is definitely not an easy situation to be in. Now, as regard to her participation or not, please don't rule her involvement out. You now have a strong though novice ally and my recommendation is to respect and honor that. Just because you may be more comfortable now by keeping Gretchen out of site and in a way out of mind to her, she indicated that she may be interested in being more involved with that side of you. In time talk, to her about that and understand what that means and the why behind her statement. As we all know here, many SO's get mad when not informed about something this important in their lives. I am not saying jump in completely, but give her and yourself a chance to be whole together with this very important side of you, which involves so much more than just dressing up in women's clothes. Thanks for sharing and good luck.

[Lana Mae]

Congrats, Gretchen! Glad everything worked out so well! Best wishes going forward! Hugs Lana Mae

[Traci H]

OMG, I am so happy for you. That would be a dream come true. You are truly blessed and it sounds like you have a wonderful spouse and you will make sure she is fully appreciated. I still pray for something even partially like that.

[Francene Lola Dupree]

Wow Gretchen, glad your wife took it so well,

How long have you been dreading "the talk?", did you imagine she'd react how she did?

[Salina]

That's wonderful Gretchen! I am so glad your wife took it well and hope things continue that way with her!

[Jolene Robertson]

Hi Gretchen,

Thanks for sharing your story with us, It's nice to hear when things go well. I'm so happy for you and your great wife. Sounds like you now have a load off your shoulders.

Hugs
Jolene

[Laura912]

You are in a wonderful place just now. Enjoy the time and where you go from here.

[Tama]

Always welcome news...

[Micki_Finn]

A good start but realize you've been dealing with this for months or years, while she's been dealing for hours or days. She's still processing. She may be fine with it now but could change her tune at any time for a number of reasons. Also BE ATTENTIVE to her and read her behaviors. She could end up suppressing her own feelings of dissatisfaction because she wants you to be happy.

It's a process that never really ends. Keep communicating and growing together.

[Stephanie47]

Gretchen, I truly wonder if your wife did not already have an inkling of your activities. I went back and check your prior threads which I always try to do before commenting. You have had a lot of outside the home activities. Transformations! Attending functions! I wonder if she "finding" the article of clothing wasn't her opening for raising the issue, and, just seeing how you would respond. From your postings she seemed to be somewhat mellow. If you have been married so long do you truly believe she has not notice or discovered your wardrobe. Perhaps she had already contemplated your possible responses. This site is really not too difficult to find. I think you have a gem of a wife.

[GretchenJ]

Also BE ATTENTIVE to her and read her behaviors. She could end up suppressing her own feelings of dissatisfaction because she wants you to be happy.

It's a process that never really ends. Keep communicating and growing together.

Thanks Micki, and I totally agree - I know that this is just the start, not the end. I know that at this point it is paramount to keep communication lines totally open, and to ensure they every concern that may arise I can put her mind at some sort of ease, while keeping honest.

[Heidi Stevens]

Count yourself very lucky, Gretchen! I am amazed that you could attend an event like Keystone with out your wife already in the loop. I was not so lucky and my marriage is in constant tension since telling my wife. I advise you to answer all of her questions fully and truthfully. Constantly remind her that you are the same person she married, she just happened upon something that you thought would hurt too much to tell her. Some women see this as mistrust as you didn't share all. Others, like your wife appearently, can understand why this was held from her. Keep your attention on her now and her needs and nothing else. Things will work themselves out as time goes on. Good luck my friend!

[Teresa]

Gretchen,
It is good news to here that the discovery was the start of things and not a drastic end.
It may sound cynical but you say the door opened and everything went back to normal, I feel it's slightly naive to think that , things never go back to the way they were, you are now a different person to her, not quite the one she thought she'd married.
Also DADT is destructive in the long run, respecting each others privacy means certain things not being said, eventually you could find you're living a double life like me. I would like to be totally honest and open with my wife, put all the cards on the table and explain it all, she chooses not to hear it, but I know long term it's not doing either of us any favours.

[S. Lisa Smith]

I am so glad that this story didn't have the more common ending. Listen to the advice given above, especially from Heidi (I know that you can't believe I'm saying this, I can't either....). Good fortune to you!!!!

[DIANEF]

Always nice to hear some good news where these matters are concerned.

[GretchenJ]

I am so glad that this story didn't have the more common ending. Listen to the advice given above, especially from Heidi (I know that you can't believe I'm saying this, I can't either....). Good fortune to you!!!!

i am listening to the advice from all, especially Heidi and yourself Lisa, and Teresa. I want to ensure that the next steps forward are slow, patient, and attentive. There are no questions that are off-limits, the cat is out of the bag, and I want to make sure that we can make this work out without any problems if possible.

[mykell]

hi gretchen,

seems your marriage has just had a re-boot :D
from what you have shared you are not really in a DADT situation and i would advise against that.

when and if you want to bring up a need or a want talk with her about it, one of mine was keystone.....and i will agree with heidi, how you could pull off an event like keystone without her knowledge amazes me :eek: my wife offered to wash my dirty clothes when i got home, the only thing male was the tee shirt, jeans, socks and undies i wore on the trip out there, everything else was girlier than what she typically wears. i was tempted but did not want to ruffle any feathers.

so i hope all remains calm and in sync for you both and if either you or both would like to come down for coffee id be honored to brew a cup or two :drink:

being a curious being WHAT the heck did she find :devil:

[giuseppina]

Always good to hear of a positive outcome from The Talk.

[Nikki.]

Another congrats, and another warning to be aware her feelings about it will likely fluctuate over time.

[kimdl93]

Wow...deep breath! Gretchen, I didn't realize you were in this situation. I have so much empathy for you and your wife. I'm hopeful that she can wrap her mind around everything...it certainly seems she's off to a good start.

I tend to look at these events through the lens of my own failures...and that means that whatever I say needs to be discounted substantially!

[Sometimes Steffi]

My wife had exactly the same reaction. No wait; that was the dream I had.

My getting caught was the nightmare; my wife had almost the opposite reaction.

We're surviving in DADT. She wants to know nothing except when I expect to come home from one of my outings.

[Suzie Petersen]

And so it begins!

Watch your step Gretchen, for there are strong forces hiding in the shadows.

- Suzie

[Becky Blue]

Gretchen, so great to hear everything has ended up so well thus far, you clearly do have a gem of a wife. Hopefully things continue to go so well...

[Pat]

I love my life with her so much, I will continue to keep this part of me distinct and separate, I don't need to have my wife involved in this, in return I will not do anything to mistrust me and to be onboard and honest going forward, so it's going to be a DADT, but not due to disapproval and/or embarrassment but for respecting each other privacy.

Interesting response. Few people seem to come to this site because they're satisfied with the status quo. It's like a fairy tale where the Fairy Godmother gives you a bar of gold and you use it for a doorstop. That might be the right answer for you -- maybe the only issue you needed to address was the door blowing shut in the wind. In which case, congratulations. Maybe after a little settling time you'll choose to open up a bit. Many of us think the side we conceal contains a better person -- and openness releases that person into the world. It would be a shame to hide that from your wife.

No matter what, congratulations and I'm very happy for you.

[kimdl93]

Fear is a very understandable emotion. Every relationship is unique, and this is very early on for both of you. My thought, based on what I'd do over, is to focus on meeting her needs, emotionally and otherwise, and keep talking, but try to keep her expressing and understanding her feelings, fears and concerns, rather than explaining yours. And don't engage in bargaining or negotiating... Now is the time to convince her that you are ultimately and unconditionally committed to her happiness and fulfillment. Of course, you'll hope she can make the same unconditional commitment to you, but that may take some time...or it may never come. But, as you said, giving up your relationship will be a net negative...so act accordingly.

[Kelly DeWinter]

The steps of progression are not dissimilar to the stages of grief. These stages are not universal or the same for everyone.

Based on reading of historical accounts here a general pattern seems to be;
Discovery and or Meltdown
Day 1 – 6 months Trauma Stage – Numbness, Shock, Anger, False Promises
(Some may make it through this period in 1-3 months)
Rash promises on one or both sides
Demands for change or else
False promises of support
Genuine Support

1 – 6 months: Beginning to work on the issues
Reflection – Recognition of problems with rash promises
Fear for Future
Beginning of openness or DADT
Renegotiation of terms conditions

6 months – 1 year: Facing the issues:
Is change possible
Redefining “normal”
Beginning of Acceptance or dissolution of relationship

1 year to 2 years Shaking sadness –seeking to understand
Forgiveness and Understanding

2 years – Understanding and Reconciliation
Acceptance and Encouragement


The key for most couples is communication, If there has not been a history of open communication then most relationships devolve into a DADT or worse.
You and your spouse can work through this. Finding the right resources such as the Book My Husband Betty may help. Also writing a heartfelt letter is a good start as well.

[Jenny22]

Oh, Gretchen, within 24 hours she had an apparent complete turn around. What might have caused it? I'm sure you must have asked her. Such a 180 so quickly must have been shocking. Can you share why? Be strong.

[CONSUELO]

I'm glad that it is working out for you. Keeping such a thing secret for "many,many" years must have been an intolerable strain. Don't try to hide anything. Tell her everything but not all at once.

[Amy Fakley]

All I can say is buckle up. The rollercoaster has only just left the gate.
My experience of coming out to my wife (17 years in, 19 next week) has been that theres a turbulence to it ... initially my wife was supportive as well. But then she started to think through a lot of the same things it sounds like your wife is ... where will this go ... who will know. It's really l comes in waves ... mostly around all of the different ways one can consider the answer to the question "how could this affect me?"

Which is of course ... completely understandable. I'm now around 2 years post reveal. It's still a rollercoaster from time to time. Sometimes she's the one upset, sometimes it's me ... even though I've had all my life to come to terms with it, and a couple years out to my wife, I'm still extremely fragile emotionally around the topic of my gender issues.

On the whole, honesty has been a far far better path than the private darkness I'd been living in, hiding all those years, but it can be tough to deal with for everyone from time to time.

One thing that truly helped me through the initial few months after coming out was a prescription for an antidepressant from my doctor. It took a lot of the instinctual panic I have out of the discussions of my gender issues.

Hang in there girl. It's gonna be rough seas for a little bit, but better days are ahead. Never stop showing her how much you love her. Openness, honesty and love will get ya through :-)

[ellbee]

Gretchen,

I suppose something like this was bound to happen sooner or later. Though it is a bit unfortunate that it didn't happen more on your terms. And I admit that I am a bit surprised that she wasn't already aware of this stuff, as I believe it is something that an SO should at least be privy to. But that is neither here nor there.


It can be human nature to automatically assume "the worst" (in the eyes of the SO, as an SO) -- that you are actually gay, that you want to leave her & run off with a man who you're already in love with & have been having an affair with, that you want to "become like Caitlyn Jenner," etc.

That kind of stuff might not make sense to us, since many of us have been dealing with this for a good while now. But for many SO's, as fresh "outsiders" looking in for the first time, oftentimes that is sort of what is going through their heads, especially initially. Not saying that's right or wrong, but just reality.


I agree that this will probably be a bit of a rollercoaster for a good while -- for *both* of you.

My suggestion is to listen to those who have been in similar positions before. And that includes the GG's here... It really opened my eyes to hear their sides of the stories.

Of course, really listen to your wife, as well. But you already know that. ;)


One conversation at a time, one day at a time.

We are all rooting for you & your wife. :)

[steftoday]

just saw this thread. I'm hoping it's a good outcome with your continued dialog... rooting for you Gretchen!!

[Fiona123]

Very nice post.

[mykell]

sorry to hear about the back-step.


[..............................]
I think it mutual fear on both sides rather than a change of opinions.

your still talking so its good, fear is a natural emotion, everyone handles it in a different way. my wife and i do share small conversations related to but not directly about my gender issues....i have felt comfort sharing myself with my p-flag group, my meet-up and my volunteering which my wife knows about and encourages me to do. that being said IF you or your wife would like to attend a P-flag meeting or similar support function and prefer to have someone whom you know i would most certainly make every effort to meet with you if it would comfort you. my group at the jersey shore regularly has 40-50 participants per meeting and is geared towards trans leaning folks, edit - [this is also attended by moms dads family and friends so you have a chance to sit and talk with peers as well as trans folks], just offering no pressure....everyone deals with this differently and as a fairly close neighbor and having met you just want to do anything i can to help.

i do remember that the first two weeks were the hardest....we have kept this a private matter between ourselves and IT WORKS for us....others need more, some less.
i cant leave the house dressed and as you know i am out in the "wild" whenever i get a chance.

what i do remember doing was getting all the honey to do list items done as well as the avoided chores around the house and gave her lots of space to digest, it kept my mind busy and kept me from any negative thoughts and i guess she saw i was still the guy she married ? and she found a way to cope with it, she is a bowler and i pitied the pins those first few weeks.


pflag link
https://www.google.com/search?q=pflag+new+jersey&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

[Alice B]

That i a wonderful reaction from your wife. It is something I share, but realize very few have such a positive result. Keep us informed as things move forward.

[Rogina B]

I hope you are explaining yourself ! From my observations,here..You have gender issues..It is way more than the enjoyment of clothing. This requires a different course in order to keep you on a level keel. I hope you are explaining that to her.

[phili]

My wife accepts the idea of 'thought experiments' - it is safe, but just about anything can be explored without fear of it being real. So perhaps you can get some space to play out the drama as you see it with her and perhaps someone in her corner listening and helping clarify- to see what you are feeling, thinking, your reasons, what isn't certain yet, etc.

Coming to conclusions by ourselves is not anywhere near as accurate and useful as coming to conclusions through open discussions with those we love.

If you are scared it is because people aren't talking, and they look like or threaten to explode. Need to lower the temperature and talk- say you aren't sure- since perhaps you aren't, and walking together along the reasoning path helps you stay in sync, which is right because the relationship is so central to you.

[darla_g]

From what i have observed both from my own talk with my wife and from the myriad of stories i have heard on here over almost 10 years is:

1. Are you gay?
2 Do you want to become a woman?

I honestly think that most women ( and my wife confirms this) is that they don't know very much about crossdressing which leads to discomfort

























;

[Sometimes Steffi]

I wish you the best.

Note that you can come here and celebrate and commiserate as the winds change.

She might not have that outlet. I know a group of SOs in PA who run a spouses support group. I might still have her email address.

You might have met her at Keystone. PM me if you need me to track down her email address.

[lingerieLiz]

Very happy for you. My wife has known soon after we started dating. While she would rather I didn't dress she has become adjusted to it. We like to shop together and she will point things out and also tell me when things aren't going to work. She has always had a real fashion sense and knows clothes. I've always worn women's clothes and now that I'm retired I've moved to almost full time. She has alerted me to sales and when shopping we don't even go to the men's departments anymore.

Good Luck

[Shayna]

Hi Jenny, it was not a complete 180, but rather some time was taken to digest it all , and its ramifications, I think

I think it mutual fear on both sides rather than a change of opinions.

I had the same experience when my wife found out, at first very forgiving, saying the worst part was that I lied to her. Within a couple of days she became distraught. The relationship is still very strong but it is strictly DADT. It took a few weeks to feel secure in our relationship again.

[GretchenM]

Dear GretchenJ,

Oh my, what a wonderful event. Your wife is a gem to be sure. She understands and that makes all the difference in the world. I am so happy for you and your wife as well. Just remember that now that you are out it is a different world that will require some new skills and perspectives. You will find them and with a supportive wife it will make it a bit less bumpy. What happened is likely more of a blessing than you might realize.

xoxo

GretchenM

[greeneyes]

I think you should just go slow and hang in there. I know that after I found out (about a month later) I thought of how everyone would react and it was overwhelming. Joni wasn't even saying she was going to come out to everyone..My imagination just went to the worst place. Afterward, I had a chance to imagine a scenario with each person that might find out.. and individually, how I would handle that...which made dealing with each scenario easier. We are not telling people, and I know she does not want that, but IF anyone were to find out, I know we could handle it. Hang in there, if she was accepting at first she will probably come around. Just reassure her that you want to be with her, and that will not change. Hugs to you! Greeneyes

[Gabriella111]

From what i have observed both from my own talk with my wife and from the myriad of stories i have heard on here over almost 10 years is:

1. Are you gay?
2 Do you want to become a woman?
Those are the first two questions I asked my bf when we met and he told me he is a crossdresser.

[Meghan4now]

Gretch,

Tough spot. Just keep talking, try to stay positive even when you find it tough. And Greeneyes advice is good.

[Nikki.]

What worked for me/us was to let it lie for a while and demonstrate that nothing has really changed. Mine has said that regardless of how i feel now, she is unsure about our future together. her vision of what that looked liked has changed. My reply to her is I'm willing to compromise to an extent, as losing her would make my life suboptimal.

Both of you are likely going to have to live with a small amount of doubt in her mind as to your possible end state. My feedback to my wife is no one is guaranteed tomorrow, and a multitude of horrible unforeseen stuff could happen, so live for today and plan for a tomorrow.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Gretchen:hugs:, Thanks for your story and the updates,
I guess that the ball is in her court now, Lets hope that it all works out for both of you.

Please do keep us advised.>Orchid

[countrygirl]

Sounds good. Just remember to keep it slow for a little bit.

[Lacey86]

Great advice from everyone. My wife has had various stages of acceptance and taken steps both forward and back. I'm not always great, but I've found that if you can keep her happy otherwise, and keep her self confidence high it can help. At the end of the day we have to take it at her pace if we have any hope of gaining any more acceptance from her.
This can be hard, especially when you want to share more. It can be very difficult to feel like you can't entirely be yourself around the one person you may feel the most comfortable with. Good luck!

[GretchenJ]

It is time for me to retreat from it all and concentrate my time to try to rebuild the trust I wasted away

I thank all for their warm wishes and the excellent advice based upon their valuable past experiences

Best wishes to all
G

[CD Rachel]

Gretchen,

You are in my loving thoughts and prayers. Know that when the times are difficult that we care about you and are hoping that things work out for the best. You can count on our sisterhood to always be here if you should need to vent or a shoulder to cry on. And if there should come great joy in rebuilding of you relationship with your wife please remember to share that with us as well. Your joy is our joy, your sorrows are our sorrows Sisters forever.

Rachel

[Teresa]

Gretchen,
I know I couldn't purge, it would be lying to myself, I'm not sure if my wife would expect me to. They may be just clothes but they are part of a deep need which I can't lie about and deprive for any length of time. I hope that works out for you with your wife, the problem is replacing them is going to be far tougher .Maybe you should have told her they have gone into store to calm the situation down .

[Judy-Somthing]

Wow your story sounds similar to mine.
At the start Your wife seemed to be accepting but now things have changed.

I've been married for over 35 years, last year I told my wife I wanted to try on a dress which didn't go well so I stayed in the closet.
Well two months ago I left my 4" red pumps out, she freaked out but seemed to get over it in three weeks.
Then three weeks ago I left a hair brush out and she said she wants to know everything

It wasn't easy but I told her 90%.
That I started at about 5 from my sister dressing me up.
It continued up through my teens and about 5 years of our marriage and stopped as our children grew up and then came back.

She said her whole is ruined and that I'm a total stranger to her and of course she called me every CD name in the book.
That we'll stay together for the kids but as friends only and never be intimate again.

Then she gave me the "silent treatment" for over a week!

For awhile I thought all was lost.

They say time heals all wounds.
They also say you can never figure women out.
I won't say exactly what she said but today she said she ready for intimacy and last night we cuddled.

I hope things work out for you, I think they will.

I didn't PURG, I put everything in storage.

[Sometimes Steffi]

Gretchen

My wife first found out (the wrong way, like yours), just before I was heading out of town. In fact, she had come home from church early (not feeling well) and caught me packing a few bras in my suitcase.

I was afraid that she might go on a search and destroy (literally) while I was out of town, so I quickly got a storage locker in secret and moved most of my girl stuff (which constituted a few small boxes) into the storage locker. I even left some clothes that she could find and destroy as a "sacrifice" the let her think she got it all. Not saying I wouldn't have purged anyhow, but at least I would buy some time so that we could talk about it together rationally. Anyhow, she didn't search and destroy, at least I don't think so, although some of my stuff did go missing. She never said that she did do a search and destroy and I never did ask. I just assumed that I lost it somehow on the way to the storage locker.

I never did give up that storage locker and I still use it for overflow from the house.

If my wife were to give me an ultimatum today, (either her or the crossdressing), she might not get the response she was hoping for. And if she did a search and destroy of what she found around the house, there's a good chance that it would be the tipping point in our relationship for me. Everybody has to make their own decision based on keeping themselves sane and their wife happy.

If you pay cash for the locker space, and don't use your home address, you can keep the locker space secret.

[Rogina B]

I don't believe Gretchen will be successful in fixing anything ! In her case,it is gender issues,not clothing issues. When we can't have the freedom to express ourselves,the meltdowns occur.

[TrishaTX]

Hi Grechin, it sounds like you are both going through the first stages of discovery. I would not do anything harsh and would just keep opening up to the wife. Purging is a bad idea, you will be back, we all do. I have never heard of anyone purging and not regretting it. I know this hurts , I have been through this, but you will come out of the other side. I would also ask her if she wants to go to couples therapy especially with a gender therapist.

I know the hiding was bad, most of us have been there. You did it , its over, now its what you do next..

Good luck Trisha

[Shayna]

Gretchen

I understand what you're going through. I don't think purging is the answer. You feel guilty for violating her trust (just like I did with my wife) but the thing is, it's out there now. You can't erase the past. Stow it away, don't look at it for a while, whatever, but getting rid of the clothes won't change the past. In fact, if she thinks you've given it up and you start again, that will seem like a greater violation of her trust.

[Scarlett398]

Super post, Gretchen! I still haven't had "The Talk" yet but hope to have the talk in the near future. She knows about my cross dressing and has come to accept it with some pretty stringent limits which I have no problem whatsoever adhering to.

I can't wait to have "The Talk" with that gorgeous redhead I have been married to for a very long time. I need to cover all of the details, have her understand everything you have told your wife about the need to cross dress which has nothing to do with having a sexual attraction for anyone other than her.

I would love to hear more details of all you covered in the talk. I know that would take a ton of typing and maybe you could cover it over a period of several posts.

"The Talk" is the next thing I want to have to help my wife feel more comfortable with my desire to cross dress.

That's it for now and thanks for sharing for story Gretchen.....Sincerely Scarlett

[Pat]

Gretchen -- Very sorry to read how this is playing out. Historically that choice doesn't have a good track record but it's your choice to make, of course, and I sincerely hope it works out for you. We'll keep a light on for you.

[Suzie Petersen]

Gretchen,

I am sorry for your situation, but I am not too surprised. It seems to have followed a very well known and predictable path, and the next steps are quite predictable too.

It will seem to you at this stage, that the best solution is to simply give up, roll over and restore the world to what it was before. That way everything is good again and you move forward with your wife as if nothing happened.

But .. there are a couple of things wrong with that assumption unfortunately.
For one, the bell cannot be un-rung. The damage is already done, so to speak. No matter what you do next, your wife now know a lot more than she did before and she cannot un-know that.
The other thing is that you cannot just un-do something that is a part of your core. You cannot just decide to un-want to do these things.

If you want to fix the world by denying your need, then you may or may not be able to do that. I dont know you and dont know how strong and stubborn you are. If you are strong enough, and stubborn enough, you might be able to simply stop this and thereby satisfy your wifes need for you to not crossdress.

But remember this, while you can chose to not act on the feelings and desires, you can not just chose to not have the feelings and desires.
All depending on how deep the T* rabbit hole is for you, you may be able to control it and live a fine and full life, or it will eventually tear you apart.

My advise to you is to carefully consider your next move. Dont let emotion drive you to chose the apparent easy solution. You will very likely later find that it was not the easy solution anyway. I dont care if you purge or not, it doesnt really have any effect on you, but it could send a very wrong signal to your wife. She might think you are now "Cured".

Be very careful not to promise something you cannot keep. Be careful not to try and invent explanations or reasons for why you feel what you do.

- Suzie

[JamieG]

Dear Gretchen,

I am so sorry to hear about this. I know when we talked at Keystone you described this as one of your biggest fears. Just know that my wife and I went through a very similar set of phases when I first came out to her (apparent initial acceptance, then lots of yelling and crying the next day, and serious concerns about a possible divorce over the ensuing weeks). As you know, my wife and I are still going strong 12 years later, and she accepts my CDing, as long as I'm not in her face with it. I'm not going to say it will get better, because I can't see the future. But I can say that there is hope. I would urge you not to purge, but perhaps put everything in a storage locker so it is not there to add to your pain right now, but is available if things do turn around for you.

Wishing you all the best. A giant hug from me to you and your wife.

Jamie

[S. Lisa Smith]

JamieG, your advise is very wise!!! I hope that Gretch will follow it and that things get better for her like it did for you!!!

[ellbee]

...so it's all in the next trash delivery.

If one is going to go that route: At the very least, donate what you can.

[GretchenJ]

If one is going to go that route: At the very least, donate what you can.

.. that is what I exactly what I did this afternoon, if it brings some form of positivity to someone else, it will make me extremely happy!

[ellbee]

Good on you, Gretchen! :thumbsup:



Anyway, I don't necessarily find purging to be such a bad thing. It has its benefits, IMO.


For one, it is quite a cathartic experience, in its own right. And I believe going through that can play an important role in all this.


A second, is that should one eventually return to it, well, it provides a clean slate for one to start fresh. It enables one to take a better look at how this all fits into one's life, as they begin to rebuild their wardrobe & what-not. I actually shudder to think what things would be like had I never purged, even once, in my life.

Yes, quitting is easy -- I've done it multiple times. :devil:



Listen, when it comes to Nature, there's nothing wrong with a bit of destruction. Believe it or not, a forest fire, for example, can actually be a *good* thing for the health, vibrancy & longevity of that forest.

Life can be weird like that sometimes. :)

[Suzie Petersen]

I actually think purging has its place too in some situations, but you have to consider what it means.
As I said earlier, purging does not make the desire or need go away, but it might be perceived as the "proof" to a wife/gf that Hubby will never do this naughty thing again. That is a danger because it means no such thing.

In your situation Gretchen, the purge can however help you if you really want to make a serious effort to try and stop acting on the desire and need. It does not make it impossible to dress because you can always get to some clothes somehow, but it will at least make it a little more difficult and you wont as easily get to see "Gretchen" in the mirror.

If it is at all possible, I think it would be good if you talk to your wife and explain that this is more than just having your own things. It is not solved with donating all your stuf, it takes a much bigger effort to not think about it and it can be very difficult to not drop back into it again.

It is not unlikely that you may have some reactions to this, which she might notice, and she needs to be prepared for that. And ... so do you.

Hugs
Suzie

[GretchenJ]

I actually think purging has its place too in some situations, but you have to consider what it means.
As I said earlier, purging does not make the desire or need go away, but it might be perceived as the "proof" to a wife/gf that Hubby will never do this naughty thing again. That is a danger because it means no such thing.

In your situation Gretchen, the purge can however help you if you really want to make a serious effort to try and stop acting on the desire and need. It does not make it impossible to dress because you can always get to some clothes somehow, but it will at least make it a little more difficult and you wont as easily get to see "Gretchen" in the mirror.

If it is at all possible, I think it would be good if you talk to your wife and explain that this is more than just having your own things. It is not solved with donating all your stuf, it takes a much bigger effort to not think about it and it can be very difficult to not drop back into it again.

It is not unlikely that you may have some reactions to this, which she might notice, and she needs to be prepared for that. And ... so do you.

Hugs
Suzie

Suzie,

thanks - this is how I am seeing things at the moment, you stated it much more distinctly than I could. And yes, I do want to make a serious effort for all involved !

[Becky Blue]

Gretchen, whatever you decide to do you have our love, thoughts and best wishes, I am sure you will emerge from this tough time stronger and better. Bec xxx

[Territx]

I hope that you can work this out so both of you are happy! I think that communication will be the key. The reality is that there is no right answer or correct way to go about it -- the two of you just have to find your path forward.

[Suzie Petersen]

Gretchen,

Good for you. It is not going to be easy, but there is a path through this.
It is easy to fall into the trap of feeling sorry for one self, and that is one of the possible reactions I am talking about. It would be good if you can avoid that since it just makes it all more difficult.

Talk to your wife and make sure she knows you love her! At some point later on, she might better understand what this all means.

Hugs
Suzie

[Sandra]

Take it slow and talk to her, explain how you feel, why you didn't tell her before, get her to tell you all her concerns and worries and don't give her answers you think she wants to hear but be honest with her.

[GretchenM]

Gretchen,

So sorry to hear that it all went south after such a hopeful beginning. I think you should take it slow for awhile, be very neutral, and let the dust settle. Time helps, but don't wait too long. Give it some time and then make sure you let her know that what has happened hurts you deeply and hurting her is the biggest hurt. Be totally willing to find a middle ground. There is lots of middle ground, but right now I suspect both of you are emotionally spinning like two tops. Give it some time.

When I came out in 2012 and told my wife what I had realized it was like a rubber band stretched to its limit around our home. You could bounce a ball off the tension in the air. But when I told her I was going to seek therapy at the local gender identity center it eased a bit. I mentioned to her that they also provide help for loved ones. She decided to go and went a few times to learn the basics. I went weekly for four months during which time it was very difficult for both of us. I presented no expectations for her that I thought she should meet. After 44 years of marriage and mostly a happy one neither of us wanted to end anything, but confusion and hurt came in bushels. We worked through it and made adjustments and came to agreements and developed a pretty good DADT policy. I wasn't sure I wanted to go full public anyway. Like me, you are non-binary or gender fluid or whatever you want to call it. Live in that middle ground internally, but outwardly be a good husband and stick to the agreements you make. Show her what your femininity can do for the relationship by being a bit more of a "housewife" with cooking, cleaning, etc. and, most of all, sensitivity, compassion, sympathy, and empathy. Keep it real and not artificially over doing it. But, at the same time, make sure you are true to yourself emotionally. She expects a man and probably feels a lot of loss of the man she loves. Show her that he is still there, but now there can be something added. Don't even talk about dressing or your gender, but show her the woman in you in actions and behavior that are added to the masculine rather than replacing the masculine.

I agree with others that you have gender issues and it is not just about the clothes. Clothes express the gender but they are not the gender. Behavior is the gender. So bring out the feminine, but also display a good deal of masculine as well. Talk about feelings, but not feelings about your gender. Show her your emotional side loud and clear without being aggressive with it. Remember, women are much more about relationships than appearance. Relationships and caring is a lot of what femininity is about. Femininity is a mindset directed toward caring and helpfulness.

Like others have said, we all love you and respect you. You have added a good deal, especially with the non-binary forum. It is a rough time, but if you two really have the feelings you have talked about having, I believe you two can work it out. It will take time and a lot of effort, but in the end it will likely be better. My wife and I are closer now than ever and it took almost 3 years after the revelation to achieve it. She knows I still dress in private once in awhile and I gently update her once in awhile. She mostly appreciates it, but she has no desire in seeing me dressed. That's OK. I am much more into the behavior now rather than the expression in clothes. It is hard work, but if you really love her and she really loves you a good resolution is entirely possible.

Gretchen

[phili]

Hi Gretchen,
What I can offer is to put this in the overall context of negotiation- you are starting far apart, with limited understanding of each other, and fixed positions in conflict.

Good negotiators will start off admitting all that, and then let that be a peaceful moment of mutual recognition - that you are still standing there, willing to see what you can do together. This can happen when you both realize there is a lot of information to share before reaching any decisions.

Purging is an offer on your part to symbolize something, for example, that you don't value your clothes more than your wife, and you can accompany that noble act of good faith by saying that the clothes are like the words you want to use to tell about yourself. All people, and of course married couples, want and need to know each other. My wife and I have been talking about how ridiculous it is that after 31 years tomorrow, we still don't know so much about each other, and this is not a one-sided thing nor limited to my gender issues.

You can confidently say that more fully knowing each other may reveal more opportunities than you can see right now, and should she say, NEVER!!!!- it is still just a negotiation- as our new President likes to say. But it is- it is her way to respond to your offer. And the game is never over till someone actually walks out, and then it is not over either, because they can be wishing to be called back, to have the other person [and let it be you] be the one who can manage the exploding feelings and keep their eyes on the prize- which is a close, loving, and supportive partnership.

[5150 Girl]

After many many years my wife found an article of clothing that I could not explain away, she calmly called me upstairs and thus began the talk.

There was no yelling, and the only tears came from me, explaining to her my fear of not disclosing this to her before.

The only questions from her was am I having an affair, !
You got lucky that she was calm, especially with the thought you may be having an affair.
I've said it a million times before, Tell a prospective SO from the start, before everyone is super emotionally involved, because eventually, you will get caught!!!

[Michelle Crossfire]

GretchenJ, it was nice to meet you at Keystone. I, too, am left to wonder how you made it to Keystone without her knowledge. i remember your concern about your wife finding out when we talked. Good thing that it is turning out much better than you had probably expected. Everyone is offering good advice. Hope everything stays positive for you as you go down this road with your wife.

[GretchenJ]

Hi all,

I just wanted to say THANK YOU to all my friends here who have provided me with support, sympathy and coping measures as me and my SO navigate through this. After a month, and I know this will now require constant communication and affirmations in the future to both her fears of the future and my violation of her trust and her ability to acceptance, I can tell you that our marriage and our relationship, is not only ok, but stronger.

Thank you all for the many PM I have received, it is assuring that I have many acquaintances I have made her that I consider true friends!

[Meghan4now]

That is an inspiration!!! :)

[JamieG]

Fantastic news! You must be thrilled.

[Becky Blue]

So happy for you, I hope things continue to improve.

[GretchenM]

What wonderful news. Back when I came out to my wife, it was a struggle for quite awhile. After we came to an understanding our marital relationship improved in many ways. It changed in its character over time, but there is a greater appreciation of each other. So long as nobody gets terribly selfish in it all and communication remains open growth and development of the relationship in new ways will follow.

[Beverley Sims]

Gretchen,
You have been around long enough to know what to do, I wish you well and the last line in your post says it all.