Relationships and SO's and all..

[Becky Blue]

I know i am going to cop some heat for this one, but Becky is one tough girl so here goes.

Of course some of the hottest topics on this forum are related to SO's whether it be telling or not telling, DADT, acceptance, non-acceptance etc. etc. Many people here have their own experiences to relate, some have been really great others are awful and full of pain.

The general consensus seems to be that if we tell our SO's as soon as possible that there is a decent chance that our SO will accept something and that a compromise can be reached. What I feel from reading so many threads is that there is a general lack of awareness that our SO's just like us are all different.

Each relationship is unique and there are so many dynamics that come into play beyond the basic I am a CD/TG/TS/NB or whatever. Some SO's care a huge amount about what others think, others don't care at all. Some SO's feel their femininity is under attack, others don't. Some find the idea of their husband as a woman repelling, others maybe attracted. I could give 100 examples, my point is its not as simple as sharing and expecting acceptance or outright rejection.

I wonder how many SO's after being told, wish that they did not know and would have preferred that their husband had kept his little secret to himself? Is it possible that she accepts the situation as really what choice does she have bar ending the marriage? In some cases would the SO's world not be a happier place if she did not know? Do all of you share ALL your thoughts and feelings with your SO's no matter what? Not just your T-ones?

I am not advocating NOT telling or telling ones SO as I believe that each set of circumstances and each relationship is different.

[sweetdreams]

I've shared my experiences with various SO's elsewhere with my openness about my CDing. I live a very open life when it comes to my SO, I can't be very genuine unless I do. There are very few secrets or things I wouldn't tell her. The result of this is we have a very deep and intimate relationship. We are open to each other.

That said sometimes you keep things a little closer to the chest. If we are having a difficult time (not necessarily in our relationship but maybe something like the death of a close relative), I sometimes won't say things in order not to make things seem worse. I tend to be an optimist so often it's just keeping a stiff upper lip to get through a situation. Not because I'm not willing to share but the timing isn't the best and it doesn't help to keep focusing on a negative situation.

[Lux]

I have had two different outcomes with two different women. I told my ex early on and she preferred a DADT approach. We divorced 4 years later as DADT became "stop, I can't deal with this". My current wife was also told early on. She thought about walking away but decided to self educate herself by ordering books off Amazon. I love that I can share ALL my thoughts and feelings with her. She accepts me 110% and is going to be dancing right next to me in Vegas next month. I am a full believer in full disclosure and count myself lucky that I don't have to hide any part of who I am. Life's too short.

[Lisa85]

Depends if extravert or intravert. Extra's share every thing and intra's share some but never everything.

This forum idea: disclose at first fails because

-- often a later life event
-- disclosure is a process and not a thought dumping
-- assumes you know yourself
-- assumes honest reflectiions will be rewarded regardless of environment.

Agree with Becky, unlike religion. here it just depends
-- type of relationship
-- length of relationship
-- religious/philosophical view of commitment
-- level of control issues in relationship
-- view as sexual aide or personality issue
-- SO's maturity level
-- SO's demons and how they relate to relationship issues

[Stephanie47]

Before my wife and I married she blurted out one night some of her secrets. One time and only one time for those secrets. No discussion afterwards. Another time she stated another secret and that was it. She was adamant there would be no further discussion. And there has not been for forty-six years so far. Would have it matter as far as marrying her? Not at the time. However, her secrets have affected her long term. I think some other guy would have thought about it and dumped her. Fast forward to cross dressing. It did not start out as cross dressing, but, "bedroom" play. When my interests in women's clothing became more than "bedroom play" she felt uncomfortable.

The most interesting idea she ever said about my developing cross dressing interest was "if" she had not blurted out her secrets, she would have left the marriage. She realized her little secrets from a period of time I did not know her were worse than my interest in women's clothing. I guess as far as DADT goes both of us abide by DADT. And, maybe because of my little shared secret I did not feel any compulsion to dump her when her issues messed up our marriage on occasion.

Frankly, and I'm sure I will get heat from some, I think when a lot of woman say the act of omission of facts is lying, it really means they did not have the opportunity to act upon their own ignorance. Societal norms and expectations and all that rot.

[sometimes_miss]

As much as people say that they want complete honesty, sometimes what they really want is the illusion of honesty. They want to be lied to, they only want to know good things. Because reality isn't always as nice as we want it to be. For one easy example, how many men would be happy to know the real answer to, 'Honey, did you have any former lovers whose penis was bigger than mine, who you enjoyed intercourse with more than you enjoy it with me?' Or more simply, 'Honey, given the option, would you prefer a larger penis than mine?'
Come on now. Many prefer to live a life of blissful ignorance.
In the words of Jack Nicholson's Col. Jessup: "You want answers? You can't handle the truth. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know". Women want the illusion of an all protective, never afraid, SO, and the thought of us in frilly girl clothes messes up that illusion. The whole knight on a white horse type of delusion makes them comfortable, makes them feel secure, allows them to sleep peacefully at night. The actual odds of a man having to physically beat up someone in order to protect her from danger is slim to none, but she wants that reassurance anyway. It's something that is likely genetically influenced. While there are plenty of women who are well able to defend themselves, regardless of that they still want a 'manly man' for a mate.
So in the words of Sam Kineson, "Lies. Lies keep you together". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA_BPC_eDP8

[Teresa]

Becky,
I feel you are possibly right in my case , I should have kept my mouth shut and taken the chance she never found out. Then we all know it's not that simple, as I've said before being in the closet was like solitary confinement , I had to break out before something really drastic happened. I didn't have too much of a stash to worry about, the bits and pieces were all her old stuff anyway . The other problem I had was knowing two GFs who were OK with CDing . The way my CDing started left me wanting to share with a woman , I've said before and have been questioned in what context, I used the term male lesbian, meaning I wanted to be a companion as well as a friend and lover , I was told in no uncertain terms that there is no such thing and must use bi-gender instead but that term doesn't relate to how I feel .

As you say coming out and telling your partner can go two ways, they either embrace and enjoy sharing it or they go into various levels of DADT, the problem is we don't know until it's too late .

I feel if we are to find ourselves we have to have a clear uncluttered path but also need help to work through it, the obvious choice the one closest to us, and that's a no win situation, if we go elsewhere they maybe unhappy with that as well,if we confide in them they have taken on a burden they didn't expect.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Well of course all relationships and all individuals are different.

What happens here is that we look for commonality to help guide us.

[Sandin Meknickers]

I choose honesty and damn the consequences. I don't have time for the life admin. Hiding stuff in the boot, arranging myself around someone else's presence...

Do whatever works for you. If you do not enjoy your autonomy, then adoot the rules of whomever you want to take responsibility for you.

[ReineD]

I wonder how many SO's after being told, wish that they did not know and would have preferred that their husband had kept his little secret to himself?

It's like a coin toss. We can only guess here since statistics are not available, so I'd guess that the chances are 50/50 that a wife will come around.




Is it possible that she accepts the situation as really what choice does she have bar ending the marriage?

One factor you don't mention is the degree, or the strength of the pull towards feminine expression. If it is only occasional and the wife feels that her husband also enjoys being a man and her husband in their marriage, then I should think it would be much easier for the wife to accept and perhaps even have fun with it (if she doesn't have conservative or strictly religious values). But, if she visits this forum or others like it and reads posts from members who say that their femme self is who they truly are, and if she senses that her husband feels the same way, the wife will feel confused and live a life wondering when her husband will tell her that he wants to live as a woman either full-time or a bulk of the time. This is no way to live, if the GG is not attracted to women.

So ... what situation did you have in mind, when you ask how wives might take this.

[Becky Blue]

Some great responses.

Reine you raise a very interesting question about degree and in my opinion is THE key question and the biggest problem is that the degree can and will often change.

So take myself as an example from 12 to 40 a very occasional CD who dressed for a turn on... it would probably not have been a big deal if I had shared my 'kink' with my SO if our relationship was one where we were intimate and shared our fantasies etc... I could have truthfully told her I was not wanting to dress to attract men, nor was a dressing because I wanted to be a woman in any way.

BUT then at 40 when it all changed for me very suddenly, so when Becky emerged and I have some level of GD.. What then? Do I update my SO and say actually now its more, that is a VERY different conversation. Of course that is the conversation I would have to have if I intended transitioning, but what if my feelings were somewhat in the middle? What do I tell my wife? That I think maybe I am kind of a trans person maybe? Imagine her unease and uncertainty about her/our future when I can't even tell her what I want?

Although I had some pretty intense feelings and a level of GD, there were external factors that caused me to delay telling my wife and then Becky left me for over 3 years. Imagine the situation that could have occurred if I had told her everything and then lost Becky.

I think that telling becomes very obvious when one is at either end of the spectrum but is far more complicated when one is in the middle.

[Paige Dehart]

Becky, You make several valid points. One of the most important is that each relationship is unique. The second is that it is not as simple as sharing and expecting acceptance or outright rejection. When we keep these two points in mind it is impossible to give one size fits all advice. But, unless the SO lives in a cloud of denial she will know that there is, and has been, a wall between her and her husband she just won’t know what it is.

Are there SO’s who would have preferred that their husband had kept his secret to himself? Initially, probably, as this kind of knowledge causes them to have to reevaluate themselves as well as their relationship with their husband, and that can be a painful process in many ways for them, especially so if they are finding out much later in the marriage.

I can only speak for myself, but I assure you that for me it is far better knowing than not. My world is a much happier place knowing. The brick wall (closet) that was between us is gone so our relationship is better and even stronger than it was before. Without the fear of not being accepted for who we really are we are both free to be totally open and honest in our thoughts, feelings and needs. This honesty and openness has affected all aspects of our lives together and is wonderful.

Nothing in life remains static. Throughout our lives we all change and our needs change too, being totally open allows for those changes to be discussed and if possible for those needs to be met.

One of the many great things about this forum is that experiences can be shared, and that the reader can get examples of what did and did not work for others, which may be of some use to them in their own relationships.

[Tama]

When we were married 26 years ago we were still young-ish. I had asked (under the influence of alcohol no doubt) about former lovers, and their "talents", so to speak. I don't remember the exact answers anymore but, I do remember laughing at the whole conversation so, it probably didn't go too badly.
My point is, we have had an unusually large amount of honesty, that under other circumstances may have killed off any other relationship. Maybe that's a good thing, dunno. Perhaps I am very lucky, maybe. I do know that since I have joined the ranks of the more active in our adventures, I have been met with even more support and even excitement at what the next outing will be...I'm indeed ramping up!

[Sometimes Steffi]

In some sense, I like DADT.

I select and buy my on clothes. She doesn't see them, so she can't disagree with them. They're not too short, too revealing, too pink, or whatever. I have full freedom to select what pleases me.

she knows I go out, but not where. She doesn't know if I stay in a larger closet, if I'm fully out in public. she has nothing to complain about.

I know from talking to her that she doesn't feel that she can handle full honesty. I never expect to reach full acceptance. I'll accept full tolerance, but I'm not even there yet.

I try to live withing the agreed boundaries. However, if she goes, the boundaries go with her.

[Tama]

Steffi, I completely understand what you've said...I believe if I were not in my (yes lucky) position, yours is a viable alternative...kinda been there before I was married, and it worked out ...

[Becky Blue]

Some very lucky people here:

Steffi, I think you are one very lucky person, your DADT seems to have provided you with quite a wide fence to play within. I think your very lucky to have a wife who is so unconcerned with knowing what you are up to.

Tama, even luckier to have found a SO who wants to be part of it all

Paige, interesting that you felt there was a Brick Closet (to twist your words a bit) between you before you were told. In my case I really believe and hope that my secret has not formed any barriers for our relationship.

[Judith96a]

The general consensus seems to be that if we tell our SO's as soon as possible that there is a decent chance that our SO will accept something and that a compromise can be reached. What I feel from reading so many threads is that there is a general lack of awareness that our SO's just like us are all different.

I'm not sure that i perceive this as a consensus, rather than a PC orthodoxy - and either you agree with it or you silently acquiesce in the interests of not getting shouted at.


I am not advocating NOT telling or telling ones SO as I believe that each set of circumstances and each relationship is different.

As you might guess, i couldn't agree more! For one thing, the 'telling orthodoxy' assumes a level of self-awareness (as regards our trans-ness or otherwise) that we simply did not, and may not yet, possess at the appropriate junctures​. Your own experience at 40 is a really good illustration. Secondly there is an assumption that, given sufficient time / data every SO will "come around" and that those who don't are biggotted ignoramuses who should be kicked to the kerb! The kindest thing that I can say about that assumption is that it stinks (my full opinion of it isn't expressible in polite company!)

Every one of us is different. Every one of our SOs is different. Each of our relationships with our SOs is different. There's 3 degrees of 'difference' that should give pause to anyone who is tempted​ to try to formulate generalisations.

[Tina_gm]

So right about the difference of partners and their levels of acceptance. Which is not only not static on their end, but also ours (how much do they need to accept)

My wife for instance. The biggest part for her growing up was on a dairy farm, with grandparents who were conservative among conservatives.

Until I came into her life, as a partner anyway she had next to no experience with anyone who wasn't cis gender hetero. She was 46 when we became a couple.

We've had talks, I shave my legs and pretty much my entire body. Nails are a bit long eyebrows a bit thin. I like girly things, I have feminine mannerisms.

She has bought me flowers on several occasions. Bought me pink nail files, panties once, reaches for women's body soap for me.... she has given me a manicure on a cpl of occasions. I'm her confidant when it comes to her style. We have a idwtsi arrangement in regards to my dressing. She gives me lots of time to dress....

How far has she come in regards to acceptance? Based on experience and upbringing. Probably more than most. Her actual level of acceptance may not be more than most, but she's come farther than most, or at least a good many. There is so much that is to be considered when it comes to acceptance from our partners.

[Alice B]

I have to agree that telling your SO early and keeping communication open is the right choice. As you point out the responses are many with lots inbetween areas. But getting it out and in the open saves a lot of misery in the long run as long as you don't jam it down her throat.From reading the many posts on this site it seems that open communication leads to some form of agreement or limited acceptance more that total rejection and end of relationship.

The bottom line is that no one here can tell another what to do because we only hear one side of the equation and it can be biased.

[Dana44]

Telling your SO early is the best thing to do. My SO is supportive and we talk often and communicate well.

[Becky Blue]

Alice and Dana, perhaps you should rather be saying I told my SO early and it worked for me. But the question for Dana is what would have happened if your SO was not supportive when you told her?

Judith perfectly put and GenderMutt also.

[Sometimes Steffi]

Steffi, I think you are one very lucky person, your DADT seems to have provided you with quite a wide fence to play within. I think your very lucky to have a wife who is so unconcerned with knowing what you are up to.


She is not unconcerned. She is aware of the many bad things that can happen to me (when I go out) dressed and is always worried about that.

What I've been doing for some time is asking for forgiveness rather than permission. If I ask her if I can go out, she's likely to find some excuse why I can't. If I tell her that I am going out, all she asks is when am I leaving and when am I returning. I treat those times as a promise.


will[/B] "come around" and that those who don't are bigoted ignoramuses who should be kicked to the kerb! The kindest thing that I can say about that assumption is that it stinks (my full opinion of it isn't expressible in polite company!)


I am convinced that my wife won't come around. She doesn't want to see me dressed, because, "She will never be able to "un-see" it and get it out of her head." She says seeing me dressed will "change everything".

She even knows a trans woman who works at the supermarket. From outward appearances, he is queer at work, but I'll bet he's way more that that out of work. She fully accepts him, but wouldn't marry him (or, someone like him). She's told me that "If I knew that you were a crossdresser before we got married, I (probably) wouldn't have married you."

That being said, she does give me the ability to explore my feminine side, as long as she is not involved in any way.

[ReineD]

BUT then at 40 when it all changed for me very suddenly, so when Becky emerged and I have some level of GD..


What do you mean, when you say GD. How would you like to feminize your body, exactly, (I'm not talking about impermanent and cosmetic solutions, like makeup, shaving, or growing out your hair) and how will the permanent feminization of your body affect your sex life with your wife. Also, how will it affect how the people in your lives will perceive you. Do you want to out yourself as a woman to everyone, or do you want to out yourself as something else (CD? NB? TG?) to only some people. Sorry Becky, but I'm not understanding the degree to which you want to take this.



Of course that is the conversation I would have to have if I intended transitioning, but what if my feelings were somewhat in the middle? What do I tell my wife? That I think maybe I am kind of a trans person maybe?

What do you mean, "in the middle"? Do you want to present as a hybrid between male and female? Or do you want to present as a woman and if so, how often would you like to do this. Part-time? Full-time (although you did say you do not want to transition)? Or as much as you possibly can without losing job, family & friends? Do you also intend on continuing to be a male and husband to your wife (even if you present as Becky occasionally), or would you like to change the fundamental relationship (husband and wife) that the two of you have established over your history together.

I think that if you can be specific with us here, it will help the potential conversation with your wife.

[Becky Blue]

Reine, hopefully this will make things clearer. Firstly how I felt at 40 when I had my big change of feelings when Becky emerged and how I feel now is not the same. So lets talk about then for starters.

From the time it all started for me and for the next almost 4 years I experienced strong feelings that were pretty consistent with late onset trans... I have strong overwhelming needs to present as a woman. I was travelling a lot for work and was able to explore this new side of me via going and quite a lot and dressing in maybe over 300 nights. I experienced some levels of GD, which for me meant discomfort about how my body felt, intense dislike of my body hair, strong desire for breasts and a strong temptation to take female hormones. Simply coming back to my hotel after work and slipping into some casual clothes (Woman's of course) gave me a strong feeling of contentment and normalcy.

Given the i had such a large opportunity to explore that side of me I was able to manage my feelings and needs and coped with what i called a level of GD. My reasons for not going further at that stage were numerous but the two main things were I did not feel it was fair to drop such a bombshell on my wife and then go off on a business trip for 3 weeks and secondly was work, I had committed to a few years of travel and based on the work I could not have been able to do anything about my feelings. I knew the travel was finite and I felt I could wait until things had settled down before deciding what to do.

I know that many girls suffer GD and are unable to live their lives happily unless they dealt with their gender issues and perhaps if i did not have the outlet due to the travel, perhaps that could have been me, but I managed to be reasonably happy in that period of time.

After 4 years becky disappeared on me, she came overnight and she left as quickly. For the next three years I felt absolutely nothing. Everyday for those 3 years I thanked my lucky stars that i had not told my wife how I was feeling.

After the 3 years she came back slowly to where i fond myself today. What i mean by in the middle is twofold, firstly how i feel changes sometimes twice in a day sometimes twice in a month. Secondly the middle means at times I want to be a woman at other times I am ok being a guy. Inside I think my brain is more F than M and always has been, but the main overriding thing is that I can cope (and be happy) at this stage with feeling the way i do. I don't need to dress up to feel that way. Often I feel I would love to take hormones, love to remove all my body hair permanently ((Curses me to have a wife who likes her males with body hair) I have had IPL on my face and back) but I also love my wife and am not prepared to ruin her life if I can be happy with my duality.

I hope that all makes sense and helps you and others understand.

[krissy]

I love my wife i have been married for 39 years she still cant stand this part of me .i told her about my dressing right up front and yes we broke up for awhile but what i dont get to this day is .she came to me and told me that she thought about it and said she would try to give me what i needed.I told her all i wanted was acceptance.We could work on any thing else.then i find out she had been with women before in long relationships .but she couldnt stand me dressing so we have been in this dadt role .Its so sad that i can accept and love her for herself but she cant do the same for me.i know ill never have that accepting wife i can live with that i just want to spend what life i have left enjoying being myself as much as possible.i see that if i need to dress i make time even a couple of minute im cool .im just glad to see there are more of us out there and that we all enjoy dressing love all of you for being there BIG HUGS:bighug::gh:

[Judy-Somthing]

Right now I wish I didn't tell her the whole story last month.
I figured no more secrets. Well it didn't go well.
Thing seem to be getting better this week talking about retirement together.
I haven't thought of dressing in two months.
Then last night she went back into anger mode and said I ruined her life.

[Becky Blue]

Judy, thanks for sharing your story and giving another side to the debate. In general people are quick to report success and somewhat less enthusiastic to report when things don't go to well. Its important to everyone to understand that there is no right or wrong answer each relationship is unique and each dynamic different.

[ReineD]

Re the first part of your response ... you've shared the story of your past many times before, but what's important is how you want to live your live from this day forward. What would make you happy, in a practical sense given what you are and are not prepared to give up. So I think you've answered it here?


Secondly the middle means at times I want to be a woman at other times I am ok being a guy.

OK then. Your description fits just about every other member here, save for the TSs who want to transition. You can choose which label you want to assign to yourself, but this would mean explaining to your wife how that label translates to practical, day-to-day life. So you want to continue to be her husband, who presents as a woman occasionally?



Inside I think my brain is more F than M and always has been,


But, how does one know that a brain is male or female. Seriously. There are studies that show some female brains are a little more of this and some male brains are a little more of that, but there is a wide range and also people who fall outside of that range (for example, a woman who identifies as a woman but who doesn't want children, or a man who identifies as a man but who hates sports or other typically manly pursuits). Overall, males and females do share intellectual abilities, personality traits, the emotions they experience, etc.

If, on the other hand, you're describing a level of satisfaction when presenting as Becky, I dare say you're like the vast majority of members here, no matter what label they choose to define themselves.



but the main overriding thing is that I can cope (and be happy) at this stage with feeling the way i do. I don't need to dress up to feel that way. Often I feel I would love to take hormones, love to remove all my body hair permanently ((Curses me to have a wife who likes her males with body hair) I have had IPL on my face and back) but I also love my wife and am not prepared to ruin her life if I can be happy with my duality.

Sorry if this is harsh, but eventually you will need to take responsibility for your decisions to not transition and stop telling yourself that if it weren't for your wife, you'd be taking hormones. Are you quite sure about taking hormones (enough to transition?) if you were single, or is this something that is pleasurable or satisfying to imagine. Shaving is another thing though, and this might be something to work on eventually. Keep in mind though, that the idea that women should be hairless is a fairly new social construct. Women do have underarm and leg hair too (some are hairier than others), which they didn't shave for thousands of years.

Back to hormones, if you were single, would you for sure embark on a program of physical transition? Or, do you think you might wish to retain your male sexual functioning and your ability to switch back and forth for whatever reason ... for your job, your kids, some of your social obligations, a prospective dating pool if you wanted to be in a relationship, not having to put so much effort into your presentation each time you go out, or any other reasons that might apply if these don't.

So in other words, if you are contemplating telling your wife, I think she would be more interested in hearing how your decisions would affect your day-to-day lives (what you want to DO) rather than how you personally define masculinity and femininity, given there is such a huge range among both genders in how these qualities or conditions materialize. If she wants to know why you experience satisfaction out of presenting as Becky, you can tell her that you just do and that explaining this is as difficult as your wife explaining to you, why she prefers her favorite color, or why a certain food happens to be her favorite. They just are. Keep things simple.

[Becky Blue]

Reine, no need to apologise about being harsh, as I said in my OP I am tough.

Firstly the main reason i talk about the past is because I felt a certain way and then for some unknown reason that feeling left me. That in itself is always going to be a telling factor in whatever i do going forward as maybe how I feel will change again.

Secondly, perhaps I did not explain myself clearly enough or you are interpreting what i said slightly incorrectly. So i will try clarify here. I am not holding back from taking hormones or transitioning because of my wife. I am holding back because I do not feel that way all the time.

Reine, no one can tell a person how they feel, when I say I feel more female inside than male, its not a clinical definition, its a feeling... it is impossible for someone who does not have any gender issues to ever understand what i mean by that. But many on here will understand. Gender never leaves me I am aware of it all day everyday, every time I see a woman, a picture, a sign, a shop, a newspaper, anything it is always there.

When I lost Becky for 3 years for that whole period of time, I was unaware of my gender, i was just a person living my life. Now I am again that duality.

The key for me unlike many is that I am living a happy life and the fact that I am somewhere on the gender continuum is a source of joy not of pain. It is lucky for me that I have a great marriage and a good job and that enables me to live happily.

To answer your question if I were single and I will add financially independent what would I do? Would I take hormones? Maybe. Would I want to transition? Perhaps, Do I want to maintain my male sexual functions? No - totally irrelevant to me. Why maybe and probably? well as i said in my earlier post AT TIMES I feel like.... not all the time.

In the simplest of terms I don't know or care what definition i fall under, I know how I feel and I know I am happy with how I feel. That does not mean at times I want more, but that could apply to chocolate or money or a great red wine.

I am not considering telling my wife more at this stage because I see no benefit to her of knowing or to me of telling. I hope the above makes some sense to me. I feel you are trying to simplify a very complex area into a binary a person is either a CD or TS who needs to transition... I have been both on the same day :eek: