it is not so simple

[Becky Blue]

An interesting discussion started in Judy's thread so I thought it would be better to start a new one rather than hijack hers.

The discussion started with Char GG saying that it is better to tell your SO at the beginning rather than all the pain and suffering that can occur if she discovers that her husband has been lying to her on top of the whole CD thing.

My point to Char was that its not always so simple. Take my case as an example, until I was close to 40 I was a very very occasional CD. Dressing or part thereof was really a sexual fantasy more than a reality. Until I was 40 I had never dressed fully, never put on makeup, had no 'female persona' and no need/desire to dress. When I met my future wife it did not enter my mind to tell her about my kink, what new couple sits down and shares their sexual fantasies at the beginning? Over 15 years of happy marriage I maybe put on an item or two of woman's clothing 12 times.

Then around 40 it all changes for me, Becky emerges the next year or two I am trying to work out what is happening to me and why and who I am. Would this have been the time to say to my wife "hey dear I think I maybe transgendered but I am not sure, sometimes i think i am then many times I don't"? Imagine the hurt and pain I have spared her over the last 10 years by not sharing my confusion. At the end of the day she is happy, I am happy and life is good.

The point of this post is not to justify my decision but to try and engender (pun intended) a conversation about when to tell if ever.

It is easy to think of life in simple terms. Man is CD, man meets woman, man tells woman so he doesn't have to hide his habit/hobby/need at the get go. This ignores the fact that it is very rare that the way we feel about dressing at 20 is the same as at 40. it also ignores the fact that we are not very mature at 20 and maybe can't project forward to what may happen 20 years from then.

For many on here we start as occasional CDs and then things evolve often slowly, at what stage do we suddenly think OMG this is something I need to share with my SO? Not so simple....

And those who do tell at the start and a DADT situation results, do you regularly update the DADT SO when things change?

[Rachael Leigh]

Becky you make some very well thought out and valid points, how do I know because I am one who told the wife about my
desire to wear women's clothes while dating. Now it was at first I told her I had worn panties but then I asked to borrow
some of her clothes, she obliged and well I considered that acceptance. Well the reality she thought it was just a quirk that
would go away with time. Well you know the story it ebb and flowed over my younger years but as you say as I got older I knew it was way more and now I'm in my 50s and well yeah I'm very much gender fluid.
We are pretty much DADT, and she's
pretty tolorant but she's told me many times there's no way she ever thought when I told her about the panties it would have gone this far.

[Laura912]

You are absolutely correct. It is not simple. Twenty years ago, when I was in my mid fifties and after 30 years of marriage, I told my wife. The telling was prompted by the difficult time she was having with her self esteem as part of a health problem. She kept down rating herself and elevating me. I told her to show how incorrect her logic was. Fortunately, it worked because we both now joke about neither one of us being quite "normal." Yes, it could have backfired but doing "what ifs" through the retrospectoscope seems not very helpful.

[Judy-Somthing]

For me my wife knew I dressed up a few times with friends at crazy parties prior to marriage.
And prior to marriage a girl we were friends with said to her "you know your marrying a cross-dresser", my SO laughed it off.

I never felt that Judy was something I had to do, it was (I hate to admit it but) but dressing was such a turn on.
After about five years of marriage and my wife and I were on the same page in our love making, I no longer needed Judy and I stopped dressing for about twenty-five years.

A little over a year ago, who knows, mid-life crises or something, I tried to get Judy back. It wasn't easy, it took more makeup, but I feel She's still part of me.

Right now it's been three months no dressing and I'm fine with that

I'm a Cross-dresser and I love it, just don't tell anybody. LOL

Until I dress again, Miss Judy

[Micki_Finn]

Becky, your story is pretty much mine word for word.

[Tracii G]

You can try and justify all you want but would it not be better if you were honest with your SO?
Getting caught after the fact is never good.
It makes no difference now as to why you never told her 10, 20, 30 years ago thats all in the past and you need to deal with the now.
No one said it would be easy did they?
The problem with many is their pride gets in the way.

[Rogina B]

I am with Tracii and will add..I wish that people be honest and explain themselves. Fetish dressers have their jollies as well as the closet glam set. Those that enjoy the orgies are yet another.. And then there are those that are "gender gifted" and have a real need to publicly express it. Some of those may be still closeted in mindset. No matter what,it truly helps acceptance if you can explain WHY you do what you do.

[Aunt Kelly]

Tracii,
Your position assumes that there was something to tell "10, 20, 30 years ago". Becky and Rachel have both related histories that make it clear that, for many of us, what we would have confided back then would be the same thing we might confide now. I may be a bad example, because my wife has always known about Kelly, but ten years earlier, I would never have shared that with a girlfriend or spouse. I do believe that, in general, open and honest is the best path, but it is very often not that simple. Where one's TG nature is revealed after years of hiding it from an SO, more relationships perish than not. I can't cite numbers, but where the discovery is involuntary, I'm pretty sure it's even worse. Where one knows enough about one's nature, honesty is the better bet, but that's the catch - the knowing.

Shades of gray.

Hugs,


Kelly Marie

[Meghan4now]

You can try and justify all you want but would it not be better if you were honest with your SO?
Getting caught after the fact is never good.
It makes no difference now as to why you never told her 10, 20, 30 years ago thats all in the past and you need to deal with the now.
No one said it would be easy did they?
The problem with many is their pride gets in the way.
Well, sure, it would be better, but the point is that there are a lot of circumstances that make not telling the path of least resistance, and I only know of one guy that was perfect.

I think the point here is that often we don't know, aren't willing to admit, are ashamed or feel like it's something we could control, and sometimes we change.

The same can be said for women. It's human nature. Quite frankly, the fears that we let captivate us and drive us to deception or denial have some reality.

Would it be best? Sure. Should I not eat that doughnut? No. As far as the spouse is concerned, yes they have a right to feel upset. And i thik many of us feel compasion for them.

But was it intentional to hurt? Is the anger of an appropriate scale, or over the top. Where is the compasion and understanding on the other side. Like it or not, if you stay in a relationship for a length of time you are most likely to screw up sometime along the way. But hopefully it can be kept in perspective!

[ginapoodle]

Life is indeed complex. Relationships change. We grow, or not. Time passes, so does youth.

Yet, we can still choose joy, peace and harmony.

I am pondering reopening open discussions with my wife. It will take courage. It will not be simple as I have much more understanding of myself than I did 30 years ago when we got married. She also has changed. Society has provided much more info on gender dysphoria.

[Becky Blue]

You can try and justify all you want but would it not be better if you were honest with your SO?
Getting caught after the fact is never good.
It makes no difference now as to why you never told her 10, 20, 30 years ago thats all in the past and you need to deal with the now.
No one said it would be easy did they?
The problem with many is their pride gets in the way.

Tracii, firstly pride has absolutely nothing to do with anything. My reasons for not telling are very simple, in my case and my opinion telling her would be a selfish act on my behalf that would achieve nothing beyond upsetting her needlessly.

The reason i brought up history is simple if I told her in 1997, 2007 or 2017 what i told her would have been very very different. Not because I was in denial not because of dishonesty, pride or lack thereof simply because how I felt changed radically.

Maybe some people struggle to understand that I, like many on here have evolved over the years from a fetish type CD 20+ years ago to a genderfluid T type of person. For example in 2007 I was starting to think about hormones and the like and was preparing to tell my wife (I delayed for reasons that were unrelated) and then very suddenly Becky disappeared for over 3 years. I cannot imagine the damage I would had done to my marriage and the hurt I would have caused my wife if I had told her I am transgendered and then 6 months later said oops I am sorry I don't feel that way anymore.

[Tina Davis]

My reasons for not telling are very simple, in my case and my opinion telling her would be a selfish act on my behalf that would achieve nothing beyond upsetting her needlessly.
This.

This is exactly why I don't tell my wife. She has seen clothes in the past and been VERY unhappy and insisted I go to a therapist to stop dressing. I went and talked, then decided that I was not going to stop. But I know she is not going to be accepting, so I keep it to myself and only dress when she is away for hours or days.

Tina

[Gillian Gigs]

So, here are some thoughts that many of us have had at some point. It will eventually go away, or after I am married the desire will leave. BUT, it didn't, and we continued to think that it will lessen over time. I still have the desire to dress, maybe for different reasons now, but the desire has never really gone away. Yes, I did have a time where dressing didn't happen, but the fantasy, or urge for doing it never left. It was only after I revealed the truth to my wife that I started to accept this side of me. This took many years, and I still have times when I can get down on myself. It's not so simple.

I would hate to think how things could be different if my wife wasn't accepting. I honestly question whether I could stop if I had to. I have attempted this on a couple of occasions, and it has never lasted more than 6 to 8 weeks, generally ending in an extreme blow out. This was both before and after the wife knew.

[Sometimes Steffi]

Mostly, I didn't know myself.

In my teens, I thought I might be gay. Just to be clear, when I was in my teens (1960's), gay meant happy. There were other very derogative words in use for homosexual at that time.

In my 20's, I had what today would be called a "panty fetish". Before asking my girlfriend to marry, I thought long and hard about this, I finally decided that once I got married, I would have enough real sex and my fetish would go away, Neither turned out to be true.

Through my 30s and 40s, I had a few pair of panties and a bra or two. No clothes of my own. Not that I didn't dip into my wife's closet every once in awhile (while she was gone), but it was at a very low level of engagement.

It wasn't until my mid-fifties that the pink fog really moved in, Then I started acquiring pants, blouses, and shirts. I got a post office box to ship my online purchases to. When I bought from eBay, I would bring cash to the PO, buy a money order and mail it in for payment. It was a big step for me to get a PayPal account for my eBay purchases. That's when I really go into makeup.

I was close to 60 when I bought my first dress.

Now, in my mid-60s, I'm thinking that I'm bi-gender.

So, when should I have told my wife?

As another perspective, in my late teens and early 20's, I was hit on real hard by a gay man on two different occasions. It was at a time I was still unsure about my sexual preference due to occasionally panties. In both cases, nothing happened. I extricated myself from both situations, even the second one, where a lot of alcohol was involved. I sobered up real damn quick. These have never recurred except once, if you count the time that this guy hit on me when I was en femme. He was wearing beer goggles, as they say. Should I have told my wife before I got married? I don't think I ever told her.

[SometimesKairi]

It's difficult enough for some of us to go on dates as it is without telling a date that you're a crossdresser haha
So I do agree with you Becky :)

[jennifer0918]

Yes it can be difficult

[Danitgirl1]

It is never simple...
For some of us there really may not have been anything to tell...
In my case I was always different, but somehow from around 17 years of age until ~35 years of age I had no desire to dress... I met my wife when I was 21. I didn't tell her anything because I believed at the time it must have been a phase. Or something...
Who knows? We don't necessarily tell people EVERYTHING about ourselves, especially if they were inconsequential things that left no lasting effect on us... Would you necessarily declare that you once did something at say age 13 that was not repeated and that had no effect on you or others? Probably not...
In my case shortly after the need to express my gender came back I disclosed fully to my wife, but only after I realised that it was not just a minor irritation. this happened quite quickly for me, but for others... It could take time. For others they just have too much invested to risk losing their marriage... I get that. Is it ideal? probably not.
I do not judge others for their decisions.
We all have our own path to walk and our own burdens to carry.

[CarlaWestin]

Being in DADT, the last time I heard a derogatory comment, I made it quite clear that there was nothing wrong about my creative proclivity. This whole non-acceptance attitude and the continuing CD hater society endorsement is just starting to get old. I can only imagine if men were to ridicule all females that had any hint of male attire or attribute. We would all be labeled as sadistic misogynists. If I were to tell my wife that it's dresses only for her from now on she'd think I'd slipped a gear. Yet, I have to confine half of my true self in order to uphold marital stability. Not exactly an equitable situation, is it?

[Rogina B]

I think many of you are fetishtic dressers [nothing wrong with that] But your "kink" embarrasses you. Much like some other "kinks". So,many choose not to tell as they have no explanation that the SO would feel happy with. If it is sexual,then jealousy and inferiority comes into it..

[GretchenM]

I agree completely with Becky. It was 45 years after we got married that I revealed the secret. I had to or go mad. It was a time of great turmoil over my identity. We both went to therapy and it resulted in some degree of understanding. She doesn't want to see or meet Gretchen and I get it. But when we got married it had been years since I had experienced the turmoil. What was I going to tell her when it seemed to have gone away? But later when it came back it was accompanied by the feelings of shame and all that produces. Should I have told her then? Yes, but shame is a powerful force and my open persona was strong masculine while underneath there she was and she was angry that I would not openly let Gretchen be seen (actually didn't have a name then).

I think it is important to recognize that there are two things at play here. One is the fact that there is an attraction to the clothes of the opposite sex. But that is simplistic. There is often a lot more to it than just wearing the clothes. There is a reason for doing that and that reason is that the personal identity is not so cut and dried as the sexual binary. Gender and sex are different things and are expressed differently. But the social expectation is that your sex is supposed to determine how you express. Thus when you switch there is fear of being ostracized and shame because you are doing something you know others will not accept. But you can't stop it because it is a part of your gender identity which was established, we now know, by the time you were about 15. We also know it doesn't change much after that. The brain has established that pattern and it is pretty set.

Thus, it is a lot more complicated and involves an evolution of finding ways to reconcile the fact of who you are with the social expectations set by social standards. That creates conflict and dealing and experiencing with that creates dysphoria that needs to be faced head on and openly if the discomfort (dysphoria) is ever to be resolved. But in the meantime you have picked up a wife, started a family, gained lots of friends and everybody thinks you are a normal person who is quite consistent with sex, gender and expression. The truth is all of that is false. Thus, as things evolve, you reach a point where decisions to reveal or not have to be made. Some reveal; others don't. Either way there are consequences and sometimes they are very unpleasant. I would have been happy to reveal the truth to my wife before marriage but 48 years ago my crystal ball would not produce clear images. Still doesn't. Evolution can be cruel sometimes but that doesn't change the fact in the earlier stages you have no idea where the behavior is going to go. So, as Becky says, what do you actually tell when you have no idea what is going on in the first place? Are you revealing something that will never be a problem and thereby creating a problem at the time of the revelation when that is not necessary if it just goes away? Hindsight is always 20-20; but at the time you should reveal you may be blind as a bat. It is unfair to judge on the basis of what would happen in the future because you don't know what will happen and don't know what to reveal. Of course I should have revealed my trait 50 years ago but that is based on what happened over the next 50 years and because it had not happened yet I could not reveal the truth because the truth was not known. My wife accepted that completely. So why doesn't she want to meet Gretchen? Because she married a man and she wants to live in that world and seeing her husband as a woman is not what she wants. Not what I would prefer, but it's OK. She understands that she knows Gretchen well but has never seen and does not want to see Gretchen as Gretchen. In other words, she has accepted the identity but not the expression. Works for me. It is mostly about the identity for me anyway and the dressing is just an occasional layer of icing on the cake.

[mykell]

You can try and justify all you want but would it not be better if you were honest with your SO?
Getting caught after the fact is never good.
It makes no difference now as to why you never told her 10, 20, 30 years ago thats all in the past and you need to deal with the now.
No one said it would be easy did they?
The problem with many is their pride gets in the way.


I am with Tracii and will add..I wish that people be honest and explain themselves. Fetish dressers have their jollies as well as the closet glam set. Those that enjoy the orgies are yet another.. And then there are those that are "gender gifted" and have a real need to publicly express it. Some of those may be still closeted in mindset. No matter what,it truly helps acceptance if you can explain WHY you do what you do.

rogina you seem to be divisive of those that identify differently than yourself and what exactly is "gender-gifted" and why cant those that are fetishy, glamy, or enjoy orgies be included. are "gifted" souls somehow better ???? also if you please will you "explain WHY" for us....no one ever seems to be able to so if you found the elusive answer as to "WHY" could you please share with the group....


I think many of you are fetishtic dressers [nothing wrong with that] But your "kink" embarrasses you. Much like some other "kinks". So,many choose not to tell as they have no explanation that the SO would feel happy with. If it is sexual,then jealousy and inferiority comes into it..

judgement is such a spontaneous and natural act, not as contrived as most think. we all do it without even thinking about it and spew about how we dont. preconceived perceptions, you dont know me but profess what is best for my existence....walk a mile in another's shoes before you judge them....

[oh and some of my best friends are fetish dressers]

[Sarasometimes]

Becky, Carla, Timid Tina, I'm with you. To those who say "You Must Tell.", have you considered the possibility that there are SO's and wives who would prefer not to know? My wive has found clip-on earrings, makeup traces on my face, this forum in my computer history (this many years ago, smarter now), I wear plain panties and women's jeans daily... I feel confident that with all these hints and never a follow-up question by her that she doesn't want to know the details.
Tracii, have you considered, as Carla said she keeps things in secret for marital stability which pains her, but she, like I do it with the intent and hope that telling would be too hurtful to our beloved and also my children. If we tell, we force them to decide, stay and condone, it encourage it (this one is rare), demand we stop (we won't) or leave?
In Psychology Today, month's ago was an article about spouses being told secrets of their mate and how it causes them then also live with that secret or tell on their mate. It used examples of spouses who have broken the law to those who are gay.
Bottom line is, just like i can't tell someone that telling is wrong since I don't know their situation, I feel others here shouldn't say not telling is wrong. I find some replies here to be arrogant and judgmental.

[DIANEF]

Sarahsometimes makes a very good point, My wife does not know of Diane, but, does she? She has dropped many hints in the past but I know one of her greatest fears is being left alone. If I were to do the big reveal it could well end our relationship, and that may well happen in the near future. I could cope on my own, I don't think she could. For her, better to not rock the boat and leave things as they are, a reasonably happy and stable family life, or possible seperation? There are good reasons for telling your partner about what you do, but there are also sometimes very good reasons why you can't. There is no black or white on this issue.

[Elizabeth G]

I agree with Becky absolutely. A discussion with my wife early on would in no way resemble what we have discussed since she found out about my crossdressing. When we met I believed my dressing to be ancient history and it didn't even enter into my mind. Time passed, I changed. I'm not happy about the deception but at the time I met my wife crossdressing was so distant for me that it seemed irrelevant if I thought of it at all.

To those on here who feel it is always correct to tell early on all I can say is that it must be nice to live in sugch a black and white world and only have to deal in absolutes.

[Tina_gm]

Even though the coding may change, evolve, expand, progress, telling our partners early on at least gives them a baseline, allows them to learn about it, and for them to accept this as a part of us through the developmental stages of the relationship, before a long term/lifetime commitment is formed.

That doesn't make the changes easy, but certainly more adaptable. And likely our own changes MAY be a bit more of a slower evolution.

Take the more typical path many of us take, hiding, denial, repression. Then one day we either pop, or get discovered. In midstream our partners are now forced to adapt to an entirely new current, one they have little to no understanding of how to navigate and one they've never experienced before. Oh and also one they've been brought up to believe is bad, wrong, maybe even evil.

So as they are trying to wrap their brains around all this, WE now are playing catch up with our own evolution and changes are more likely drastic and rapid.

So yeah, not simple by any means.

[~Joanne~]

I think the point here is that often we don't know, aren't willing to admit, are ashamed or feel like it's something we could control, and sometimes we change.

I think Megan nails it right here. It can't be more clear if you tried. I am glad some of You can just throw it on a table without much thought so You think everyone should but that's not the case nor will it ever be. I have said it before and will say it again, a lot of the time, you don't know what this is or where this is going until your well into the relationship or marriage. Long past throwing it out there at the beginning.

By time a person figures out what this truly means to them, You could be 30 years in. You know the person your with and how they will handle it. I got extremely lucky myself, My SO had no hang ups about it and still doesn't. I would have NEVER told my exGF ever even if we wouldn't have broken up and got married. she would have never known.

A lot of time when I read threads like this, it's the TG's that are pushing everyone in a direction that benefits what they are doing or have done. We are not all Transgendered here. I understand that the more of us that are openly out there makes it easier for "The cause" but everyone has to decide for their selves whether or not it's best to tell or to hide this forever. Peer pressure never helps anyone.

[stephanie2000]

Oh Joanne -so well said. That is exactly my predicament. This took a long time for me to accept my dressing and changing feelings for 30 years. I know that I can never tell my SO I know it. What do I do if I tell her I loose her, if I keep it secret I continue to live the lie behind her back. I have grown children and present as main stream male most of the time. But I feel like something is changing in me and I'm taking more chances and risks to dress. A strong part of me just wants to disappear. Thanks for your post made me feel better about myself.

[Tina_gm]

Agreed Joanne. Somewhat my case. My wife is fully aware, but through decades of denial and repression, I didn't, perhaps still don't know exactly where my true fem/masculine balance is. Now, what to do about it..... how much of MY life am I going to spend chasing after my now self discovered gender variance. How much if any do I want to unravel the life I spent decades creating.... how much do I want to change if not end the marriage I've fought so hard (as did my wife) to make not just a marriage, but a truly wonderful marriage.

Being tg isn't a choice. For me, based on how much I am feminine, how much I identify as female or however someone wants to look at it from that aspect, I can choose how much. Some can't, their discovery leads them to realize they are ts. For those of us in between, it's s heck of a balancing act. In the middle, which means still having a life as a male, both sides have to face certain sacrifices. Such is with life in general though, and it's not so simple.

[Kate Simmons]

It's usually later in life that we develop into a person with full spectrum feelings where we have accepted ALL of our feelings and have taken ownership of them. Unfortunately not all SO's and spouses are ready for that step and so many of us continue to live at least a semi clandestine life without full disclosure. This is the option that most choose unless we decide to separate and move on alone. :)

[Stephanie47]

In my situation there was a gradual enhancement of a shared activity. When I was in my youth I did wear my mother's clothing on occasion. I found it revolting. I felt shame. It was the early to mid 1960's. Those ideas were of the times. I had not had the desire to wear women's clothing for years when I met and married my wife. Maybe because she was drop dead gorgeous and down right sexy and sensual I became interested in lingerie. We went lingerie shopping all the time in mid town Manhattan. Of course, the day ended up in some serious __________ and _________. My love of nylon was rekindled and I wearing a nylon nightgown was explored mutually. My wife enjoyed it on the occasions such activity was incorporated into bedroom play. More than ten years in our marriage I found myself interested more and more with nylon nighties and slips. However, when she found my first bra (Vanity Fair very vivid read with matching tap panty) we had "the talk." She could not understand why a man would want to wear a bra when he had nothing to "pack into it." Well, there was no ranting and raving. There was no demands. She was just turned off my it. It went from bedroom play to something she could not understand. I sort of 'pestered' her too much to try to get her to understand, and, really at least buy me some panties on occasion. No dice. We ended up in DADT land, which has worked well for over thirty years.

We have not updated our tacit agreement. I find it frustrating that I cannot share my feelings with her, but, I understand her reluctance. She does not know the extent of my wardrobe. Why would or could I tell her I bought another dress, a panty or bra or another slip? Or high heels? She does not throw any barbs at me. No condescending remarks. She is supportive of gays and lesbians and transsexuals. Cross dressing in her husband? Nada!

I feel no obligation to tell her I have 157 dresses. Over 450 slips. Too many panties. Wigs, Heels. If I predecease her, she'll really be surprised..or not.

Maybe Judy's wife chose to ignore the premarital signs or Judy's confession at the onset of their marriage. Frankly, Judy's wife should get over it. She is being selfish. After so many years of an otherwise good marriage, she should brow beat Judy? No, she is spiteful. She needs counseling so she can understand her husband and herself too. I've read it too many times on the forum; Love is blind to something that is later seems to be a fault and must be corrected.

[Gillian Gigs]

Wow, so many interesting comments. One thing that wives didn't sign up for is keeping secrets. My wife wants me to keep everything quiet, within the home, and I do. It took 20 years of my secret being out with her, before she opened up to some of her secrets. Others knowing our secrets makes us vulnerable in more ways than we care to think. Let us face it, we all have secrets. One thing I appreciate is that my wife is accepting, but she doesn't want the gory details. There are times when I look for reassurances that I can get rather verbose about it. JDILNTAI a new acronym, just do it lets not talk about it. She tells me I have a fetish and nobody is perfect.
I also wonder about wives that are so against this particular thing of ours. So, what is missing in their lives, or their marriage that we haven't fulfilled. We all have secrets,, what's in their closet.

[Alisonforme]

I evolved a lot like you Becky, finding out fairly recently (about 2 years now) that my fem side was so strong. My SO knew I had certain "appetites" but I didn't know the reality of being Alison until after we were married. I told her pretty much as soon as I knew that something had changed. I didn't want to lie to her. Things haven't really changed further but she knows that I don't feel like I need to keep my CDing a life-long secret, and she would prefer that DADT remain in firm effect and that I never come out.

[Teresa]

Becky,
I made that clear in the reply to Char GG .

Our circumstances are different , in my case I had GFs before I married who were OK with my CDing , so when I married I naively thought all GGs would be OK with it. Life was so full that despite my dressing it was kept in the background, even then I had the gut feeling or need but tried to work round it thinking it would go away.
I've seen so many members have a need to come out in their forties , I'm one of them, to many of us that is the first inkling that something much deeper is going on, I've told that part of my story before, but the outcome was almost ending my life.

The combination of a man in his forties suddenly finds himself unable to stop CDing and coming to terms with that leaves him guilty ,lying and trying to deceive himself.

To accuse him of being dishonest and deceitful before he married it very hard to take , many of us believe it's a carry over from puberty and will probably grow out of it , OK some of us may also think being married will be a cure especially if it's sexual . I guess I hoped to continue happily sharing it ( an aspect of my CDing ) with my wife as I had with my GFs.

Those with an ebb and flow must face some confusion, thinking at times it's finally fading away, I've never felt that, it's 24/7, so most of the time I have to find ways to work it round to continue to function in male mode , that isn't easy ! There is so much our wives/partners will never understand simply because most females don't live with a trait like CDing ,their unacceptance comes out of that lack of understanding.

[Meghan4now]

Gillian,

I think the number one objection wives have, beside the "being lied to", is embarrassment. Seriously, all the time I grew up, my mom would always get down to "what will people think". In my last couple of "discussions" (listening sessions) about dressing, my wife made it clear in a number of ways, that it is the embarrassment that was her biggest complaint and worry, by far. There are different aspects and different reasons, and some are well founded, while others are supposition.

[sometimes_miss]

Hindsight being 20/20 vision, I'd also recommend that we tell our prospective spouse before getting too far into the relationship. Though, I'm not exactly sure how long to wait. I'll leave that to the GG's to advise us. All I know, is that NOT telling her, for me turned out to be a disaster. It wouldn't have changed much; during therapy, she disclosed that had she known, she never would have married me. The fact that I hadn't dressed in 10 years at that point, and would not feel the desire to for several more didn't dissuade her at all; she didn't accept my 'excuse' that I thought it was just transitory, and because I had not crossdressed for so many years, I had thought that I wouldn't want to at any point in the future. I thought that I had 'beaten' it, or grew out of it.
Didn't make any difference to her. She believed that I intentionally hid my past, and in doing so, deliberately ruined her life by my evil behavior. Then the anger, and the divorce.

So, there's no way to go about this without any risk. Seems many times, we're damned if we do, and damned if we don't. At least, that turned out to be my situation, anyway.

Like Meghan wrote, my mother was more concerned about how it would reflect on her; she was horrified when I told her, and wouldn't speak about it at all. A few years later, when I picked up one of her Lane Bryant catalogs at her house, her response was, 'Oh, are you STILL doing that?', which she said with a disgusted look on her face, then walked away. When she came back into the room, she pretended that it never happened, just picked up the catalog from the table and threw it out.

Women simply want their men to be the same as we always have; the strong, silent type, always there to lean on, always being a good provider. Always there for what they want from us.

As always, Your Mileage May Vary.

[Ressie]

I've always been a fetish dresser. Telling wasn't difficult with the first GF. About two weeks into the relationship she told me she was bi. That info made me feel safe to tell her about my fetish. That was in 1978 and we stayed together for about 2 years.

Since then, I've told every woman that I became involved with before getting too involved. I'm not saying every CD should come out with the truth right away, but it would be best to get it off of your chest, especially now days. I understand the reason some CDs never told there wife that they've been dressing for 50 years. It would take a very open minded woman to come out to in 1966! And after a few decades of marriage, some know their wife well enough that coming out would end in divorce.

I have now idea how many people know I dress now. I couple of my exes may have shared my secret (with mutual friends) which probably turned into gossip. At least I don't have to worry about being blackmailed!

[Rogina B]

Wow, so many interesting comments. One thing that wives didn't sign up for is keeping secrets. My wife wants me to keep everything quiet, within the home, and I do. It took 20 years of my secret being out with her, before she opened up to some of her secrets. She tells me I have a fetish and nobody is perfect.
I.

So,that is ok ? I think that the fetish dressers are often unwilling to try to explain why they enjoy it.

[faltenrock]

I came out to my wife after 6 years in partnership. We had the first kid that year and now this is 21 years ago.
It's the main issue for my wife, that I didn't tell her at the beginning and didn't give her a choice.

When we met and the time after, I didn't know that my desire would come back. But that's not an excuse.

[Jennylace]

the desire never goes away just embrace this part of you share that part of yourself in a caring and loving way

[Becky Blue]

I think many of you are fetishtic dressers [nothing wrong with that] But your "kink" embarrasses you. Much like some other "kinks". So,many choose not to tell as they have no explanation that the SO would feel happy with. If it is sexual,then jealousy and inferiority comes into it..

With all due respects Rogina (actually I take that back) that is judgemental and .... perhaps you were/are embarrassed about your dressing, but i have never been. If you actually read what I posted as well as quite a few answers thereafter by others you will see that the reasons for not telling had nothing to do with being embarrassed.

If Becky was simply a fetish i would happily share it with my wife as what harm would that do?

Some other comments, GenderMutt you are presuming that there is a know logical progression. What baseline are we giving our SO if we tell her what we are and then it changes? Thats a recipe for disaster, lets play that one out..

If I told my wife at the getgo that I am turned on by the thought of wearing items of female clothing. She would ask all the usual questions, such as are you gay? No Are you wanting to be a woman? No. So she deals with it and life moves on. 10 years later it changes. Errr dear, remember 10 years ago when I said.... well it seems as if thats no longer the case.. I am not turned on my the female clothing anymore, but maybe now I have urges to dress and perhaps maybe I think i do kind of want to be a woman. Now what does she think, perhaps I lied to her 10 years ago? how can she believe me now maybe i will change again. It all gets really hard. If anything the baseline maybe made things worse??

Gillian, you said one thing wives didn't sign up for is secrets. Well thats a rather big assumption. Perhaps wives did not sign up for a husband who wants to wear her clothes.

[ReineD]

My point to Char was that its not always so simple. Take my case as an example, until I was close to 40 I was a very very occasional CD. Dressing or part thereof was really a sexual fantasy more than a reality.

And why wouldn't a husband share his sexual fantasies with his wife. Sex is the most intimate thing a couple shares. It's the one experience between two people that makes their relationship different from just being friends, even best friends.

It's devastating for a wife to find out after decades that her husband has had sexual fantasies of a hidden nature. It's not about whether he dressed or put on makeup or not during those all years, as much as having hid a strong impulse to do so. True intimacy between two people requires no secrets.

[Becky Blue]

Reine, in my case for the simplest reason possible, we married quite young and were quite immature sexually, so it was many years before we shared out sexual fantasies. My wife was very happy to not talk about such things when we started out. She was very happy doing it but not talking about it. 22 years old probably don't have the true intimacy that you are talking about.

Years later when we did share fantasies I told her about that fantasy.

[Krea]

Hi Becky,
Your original point is spot-on. It's not always so simple.
Like some others, when i got married many years ago i didn't even know that this part of me existed. CDing has become a part of my life in the last 18 months or so. Having realised that it was not just a passing phase, i am glad that i finally came-out to my wife.

[Becky Blue]

As I said in my OP it is not that simple
Some start as CD's and then evolve to TS's
Some start as CD's and evolve to gender fluids
Some start as CD's and change
Some start as CD's and stay as CD's
Some dress for as a sexual thrill others don't
Some are embarrassed, ashamed and in denial
Some are proud and accepting
Some are men who like to dress
Some are woman in the wrong body
Some are both
Some are neither

Some place honesty at the top of their list of attributes, others place it below other things
Some understand themselves, others don't, some don't want to
Some SO's want to know everything, some are happy not knowing
Some married couples share intimacies and tell everything, others may not
Some wives embrace, some reject, some accept a DADT

My point is every situation is different every couple's dynamic is unique.. that is why it is never that simple.

[Teresa]

Becky,
From your list which covers most if not all, it's obvious most of us evolve , I would say most of the time we push that bit more, sometimes we can't explain it to ourselves why ?

It isn't simple to tell someone close that your brain is taking you on a journey, which you don't understand yourself let alone explaining it someone else . The voice on one shoulder is telling your you're a man and men don't dress in female clothes the other voice is telling you to release the female side and explore it . That scenario when it plays out every day can tear you apart , as I've said before it must be more confusing to Cders that ebb and flow, thinking it's gone for the last time only to be hit harder the next time it comes back . Most women will never understand that because it doesn't exist in their brains so most will never come to terms with it. What they don't get is it's something at the start we feel so guilty about we are possibly going to deny it to ourselves let alone admit it to anyone else .

It does get me at times this honesty question, for a start we don't truly believe it ourselves let alone tell a partner before we get married, besides it's mainly in hindsight we discover the truth about ourselves and that could be years into our relationship .So the decision becomes harder because we usually have more to lose.

[Becky Blue]

Exactly right Teresa, in the perfect world it would be great to be an open book and tell our SO's everything. But if it was a perfect world then we either wouldn't feel the way we do, or we would know why we feel that way. The world is very far from perfect and hopefully thats what makes life interesting.

I am neither advocating telling or not telling, my point is and will always be there is no easy answer and our circumstances are always different.

[JustJoni]

And why wouldn't a husband share his sexual fantasies with his wife. Sex is the most intimate thing a couple shares. It's the one experience between two people that makes their relationship different from just being friends, even best friends.

Very true, Reine. It goes both ways, of course, lol.

[Nadine Spirit]

My point is every situation is different every couple's dynamic is unique.. that is why it is never that simple.

Okay - I have to finally pipe up again. Sorry in advance as I know that I will step on some people's toes.

Talking to one's partner may not always be simple, but in my opinion it is necessary and helpful to everyone involved. I'm not saying that it is without peril, but it often is not as complicated as so many of you make it out to be.

When I met my wife, when I was 15, do you think I had any idea that I would be where I am today? No. No idea at all.

But did I tell my wife that I liked to shave my body hair? Yup. Did I tell her I liked wearing my sister's Guess jean jacket? Yup. It was nervous as all get out, but I still told her. It didn't mean that I explained to her how everything was going to be over the course of our possible marriage. Now that, that is the impossible thought.

The reality is some think that being able to be open and honest with the person you partner with is important, and some just don't care. That is generally not a problem, unless you match up with someone who thinks differently than you.

But hey, if you don't ever talk about things, then you won't ever know until the cat is out of the bag.

Why do I even bother saying something that goes against so many of your thoughts? Because of the people who contact me after getting caught and tell me they wished they had listened to me. How many people change their minds prior to getting caught? None that I know of. They are pretty self assured that they are doing the right thing. The thing that their spouse wants them to do. The best thing for them and everyone in their lives.

My how things change once they get caught. But then again, you won't get caught will you? You're too careful for that.

Good luck!

[Dana44]

No it is not simple. However in telling my SO it was hard but I did it and communication is the key. Now she ranted on this site for a time and got with the understanding wives. I pushed it one day in a tight dress and heels and she bucked. But then she came and told as I put my clothes back into a box. She told me to unpack them and wanted me to be happy. Now that took a few days. Till this day she says that she can never understand why a guy wants to wear fem clothes.But she does let me do it and we sometimes go out as two women.
I also dress for three or four days a week. But if I push it too far she says, look I don't want to live with a woman. So I have to back off for like a week and then it is alright. So an SO that loves you dearly may find a way to keep you happy. True love is a give and take for each other and if your wife with good communication can't, I wonder if that is true love. i benn through two divorces. Many women and finally found one that truly loves me. In no other relationship that I had did I feel this kind of love.

[ReineD]

Reine, in my case for the simplest reason possible, we married quite young and were quite immature sexually, so it was many years before we shared out sexual fantasies. My wife was very happy to not talk about such things when we started out. 's She was very happy doing it but not talking about it. 22 years old probably don't have the true intimacy that you are talking about.

Sorry Becky, but I think you're rationalizing. Of course there are 22 year-olds (and 60 year-olds) who have intensely connected sexual relationships. Also, the couples who are not so sexually intimate span all ages too. It's not a question of age but a question of sexual intimacy.

I appreciate that you did not feel you could tell her at that age, but this has to do with your own relationship with your wife and not 22 year-olds in general.

[Becky Blue]

Reine, I am not rationalising! when I was 22 I did not discuss sexual fantasies of any sort with my wife to be. It was not a case of selectively deciding what to tell or not to tell but we did not have that level of intimacy at that stage of our relationship. Of course others may well discuss it at 15 as Nadine did. I think you have missed the entire point of what I was trying to say, which is that everyone is different and that its never as simple as saying I told at the beginning so everyone should.

Nadine, just because some people regret not telling before doesn't mean that everyone should, I know quite a few people who told their SO's and will tell you it was the biggest mistake of their lives. To reiterate, I am neither advocating telling nor not telling. Merely stressing that there is no one size fits all answer.

[Fiona123]

I'm late to this thread, I know. Not telling 30 years ago was a huge mistake. I've come out but she is not very accepting Back in the 80's pre internet I did not know what it means to be transgender.

[Becky Blue]

So Fiona, can you explain why it was a mistake not telling 30 years ago? and if you did not know what it meant being transgendered if you had, what would you have told her?

[GretchenM]

Becky,

Your statement that there is not a one size fits all is right on. The fact is, we are all different. Of course, the proper and most respectful thing to do is tell before rather than later. But that is nothing but an ideal based on an assumption that you have something real to tell that makes sense to you and therefore might make sense to someone else. Your use of the time dimension and development over time is exactly correct in my opinion. Many of our personality traits are not precisely defined and are blended with other traits such that it is hard to know where the boundaries are located or how they will change from this moment to future moments. I respect all the other points of view on this, but once again, deciding what to tell based on some speculation as to what may or may not happen in the future and telling that to a prospective mate will probably result in a need to find another prospective mate. He or she may likely think you are nuts. It all goes to the matter of the development of this behavior over time. Everybody changes and part of the deal in getting married is an acceptance that the future may be different. "To have and to hold through sickness and health, etc." The very nature of the vows implies an acceptance that some things are going to change and they will not necessarily be milk and honey. A woman who sees a very solid man has to face the prospect, rare as it might be, that at some point he may prefer dresses and lipstick. The reverse also applies and this pattern applies to everything else as well. After 48 years of successful marriage that is still quite secure and happy it is an adventure unlike any other adventure you can have. We have both changed in dramatic ways and sometimes in ways we never expected. So what? It is a learning experience and we are better for it because our attitude toward changes is guided by the underlying unification of love for one another and being BFF's.

Gretchen

[Nadine Spirit]

Nadine, just because some people regret not telling before doesn't mean that everyone should, I know quite a few people who told their SO's and will tell you it was the biggest mistake of their lives. To reiterate, I am neither advocating telling nor not telling. Merely stressing that there is no one size fits all answer.

True I have also read of some who say that telling their partners was a mistake. But, what is difficult to ascertain from those stories was when the partner was told, or if the partner discovered the secret. Those are important aspects to the stories that are often omitted in favor of stressing how un-accepting their partner is of the gender variance. Once the deception has been committed it is extremely difficult to determine if the partner is bothered about the gender issue or the deception. The TG world may be filled with many stories of regret of revealing themselves, but the entire world is filled with stories of relationships that have fallen due to deception. For example, infidelity is a frequent cause for divorce, but many of those people say the sex was irrelevant, but the deception was the real relationship killer.

True no one size fits all, but I am hard pressed to find any examples of partners that say, "hey I'm totally fine with you not telling me about you, go ahead and deceive me, omit information, please don't tell me who you are, I want to live with someone for 30 years that I think I know but in reality I only know a part of them."

[AnnaMarie]

We've discussed this before Becky and my story is more or less a copy of yours. I dressed from a young age and into my teens and early twenties. Then, it stopped for about 15 years. I met my wife, we got married, kids etc and then boom! it started again. I'd never told my wife to that point. It was history and after 15 years I didn't think it would ever come back so why tell my wife something that's part of my history? I never told her about previous girlfriends and what I got up to, so there was absolutely no justification for mentioning this to her either.

Now of course it's different, my need to dress came back a couple of years ago and hasn't let go. I made the decision about 12 months ago I had to tell my wife. She'd not discovered anything, had no clues or inclinations but because we are honest with each other it was time to tell, including the lies about going out to see friends and then changing down the road - I told her EVERYTHING! Had I stopped dressing when I met her and because I'd met her, then I would have probably mentioned something if the relationship was to get serious, but due to my circumstances didn't dictate that and I'm the only person in the world who was in a position to make that decision.

Finger pointing and saying you should tell, you need to be honest isn't for some people the way to go. Not everyone will get found out and sometimes there is more at stake (ie. kids and family) and only you yourself can make an informed decision if it's worth telling or not.

For me, she knows I do it, won't ever talk about it but if I want to go out with friends as long as I'm not changing her, she puts up with it. It was one hell of a shock for my wife!

[Gillian Gigs]

Reine, I am not rationalising! when I was 22 I did not discuss sexual fantasies of any sort with my wife to be. It was not a case of selectively deciding what to tell or not to tell but we did not have that level of intimacy at that stage of our relationship.


I did not discuss sexual fantasies with my future wife either. Why, because I thought the fantasies would pass as I developed a new taste for her! Well, guess what, the old tastes never left. I was also afraid that if I said something the last thing I would have seen was the dust coming from her running away. Intimacy takes time and in a good marriage there is time to develop trust, intimacy, and grow together. Why this happens in one relationship, and not another is the result of the mix of everything that happens from day one. We don't get owners manuals and there is no questionnaire to fill out as to each others sexual tastes, or anything else for that matter. Even then who says that those tastes don't wax or wane with time. Just look at the site and see how many of us say that the desire to dress has increased as we age. Are some of us lucky, or is it that an understanding wife comes as a result of whom we choose in the first place? It may also be the result of the love and intimacy that has occurred throughout the years.

[Alice B]

I had no indicatiion, nor desire to dress until I was 64. Then out of the blue I had a desire to dress and wanted to act upon it. In my case my marriage was very strong and I told my wife of my desire at the get go. Lots of discussion and acceptance at a level just above DADT. Made it clear that I had no desire to transation and over time gained greater acceptance and freedom.

I am a strong beliver to tell at the start, but realize it is different for every person and the strength of the marriage is a major factor. That is something that none of us can answer for another.

[Becky Blue]

Interesting discussion ladies. Gretchen, your point that after 48 years of marriage you have both changed a lot is a very pertinent point.

Nadine, in my opinion if one half of a couple decides to cheat, it is not the sex nor the deception that is the real problem it is the underlying fact that one half of the couple felt the need to cheat, the deception flows from there. Of course you are hard pressed to find someone who says I am ok with being lied to because of course that is not ideal, likewise we would be hard pressed to find more than a handful of SO's who say I am so happy that my husband is a CD/TG or whatever. Its about choices and which is the lesser evil. In your world truth take precedence and thats your right and belief, others don't see it that way and thats their rights and beliefs.

Annemarie, you told your Mrs when you needed to, and I agree what you did before you met her is irrelevant.

Gillian, I was not talking specifically about any dressing fantasies, I am talking all and any fantasies one of which included CDing. Unlike some of the posters on this thread who clearly were very emotionally mature at very young ages we (my then to be wife and I) did not discuss any of those sorts of things until we were quite a lot older and more mature. It is easy to sit today with a lifetime or experience and a high EQ and think back to what could have been back 20+ years ago, but the facts are that was never going to happen. The thought of telling my future wife to be that I liked to occasionally put on an item of female clothing as a turn on, did not even cross my mind for a second, and given how young and immature we were, it would have ended the relationship. Not that the possibility ever crossed my mind.

Alice, the fact that my marriage is very strong is a major part of why I choose not to tell my wife more than the tiny bit she knows. It is exactly because I care so much about her that I am not telling her more as I can see no benefit to her of telling her. Would it be of benefit to me? Yes of course it would, but I can see no win for her. I can see a whole litany of concerns about the kids finding out, about other people finding out, about where Becky is heading.

[GretchenM]

Becky,

The fact that you and your wife have a strong marriage is an important factor. As with us, the Big Reveal caused some serious concerns, but we faced those concerns pretty much head on when we both went to see a therapist. I saw a gender therapist and she saw a gender therapist with experience in dealing with such revelations. In short, as we have always done, we tackled the difficulty with a desire to solve it and find that comfortable zone. It ended up DADT. It wasn't what I wanted but then having a TG husband is not what she wanted. The important point is that by dealing with the problem rather than running away it made us stronger. Your withholding that aspect of you carries a certain risk, but the fact that you and your wife have built a solid foundation will likely help if and when the truth does come out. As for what you should do, in my opinion, only you know your wife and your marital dynamics and none of us do. I am confident that you have good judgement and so only you can decide the path. Just step back once in awhile to make sure your concept of the nature of your marriage is in fact as you think it is.

xoxo
Gretchen

[sometimes_miss]

It's been my experience that when a woman tells you that she wants to know what your sexual fantasies are, what she wants to hear is that yours ARE THE SAME AS HERS. No other answer is acceptable. Having a threesome with her sister, her friend, you being the girl or submissive, you having sex with a guy (in fact, you having sex with anyone except HER is completely unacceptable, too), dressing up in animal costumes, rubber/furries/enema/B&D/S&M the vast majority of kinky things aren't what she wants to know. Remember, women expect you to be able to read their minds or you don't love them enough. It's always 'you should already know what I want', just like with presents. So dream up some Harlequin romance, and tell her that. Then fantasize about doing whatever you wish while she's dreaming of rose petals, ladies in waiting serving her, and you in knight's armor, riding on a white horse, stealing her away to rule some faraway kingdom. There's a very good reason those romance books sell millions; that's what a whole lot of women dream about.
And, as always, beware of these women: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4hNaFkbZYU

[Ressie]

Very true Lexi. There are exceptions but not many.

[rachelatshop]

It would have been wonderful to have known what I know now about cross dressing when I got married, and even if I had I cannot be sure I would have told her that I’m a cross dresser.
When I first started dressing it was with a pair of my girlfriend’s panties that I picked up off her dorm floor and I used them as part of my self-gratification fantasy, and eventually wearing them. Over the next 10 years the fantasy/cross dressing part grew, and coupled with a Halloween event became full on cross dressing. Coupled with taking them off and hiding them when the event was over and thinking and feeling I had done something wrong (in those days self-gratification was not accepted by everyone as normal behavior). A t this time the term cross dressing wasn’t even used and so I didn’t consider myself a cross dresser, so it would never have been a topic of discussion, and besides how many of you discussed your acts of self-gratification with your girlfriends or the one girl about to become your wife? After getting married my need for self-gratification went away and so did my need for dressing (for the next 15 years) and has only returned in the last 5 years. My cross dressing today has no sexual component but is stronger than ever. I did tell my wife after she noticed me reading a story on the internet about cross dressing and asked me what my interest in cross dressing was, and I didn’t know at the time how to answer her? Thus began my quest to learn everything I could about cross dressing, about men who cross dress, and that quest brought me to this community. I have met a number of very valuable friends here with whom I share with and learn from.
When I talked to my wife the first thing she said before I had said anything was that she had an open mind. That might have been true if we had been talking about anyone else. The next thing was, why didn’t you tell me before, and my answer was that I didn’t feel that there was anything to talk about then (what I really wanted to ask her why she didn’t tell me about her self-gratification practices?), and I didn’t know then what I know now. The outcome of our talk was that she still loves me and doesn’t have any interest in leaving, but for various reasons she doesn’t wish to see Rach. After 2 years my cross dressing relationship is still a work in progress.

[barbara gordon]

I was married nearly 15 years and didn't tell enough to my wife about cd . I wasn't trying to hide it from her , it just happened and kept festering further inward

I tried - many times to start the conversation - it always went with out saying the whole thing .
We had a good marriage , but each day it burned me a little more inside to have to keep a secret . at the beginning of my marriage , I didn't understand myself as much , I didn't know that the desire to dress would not go away . Every day that went on hurt both of us a little more .

Finally at one point toward the end I could not hold it any longer .It was killing me . I had to tell this secret to my wife at what ever cost . I actually thought she would be ok with it , but When I told her it went over terribly with . We were filing for divorce only a few short months later.
Fast forward to now , its more than 5 years later .
I have a girlfriend partner of a few years .
I told her on the first date .
Telling my secret right at the beginning changed the story completely for me . I am not entirely out to most , but I am out to my partner for sure . We can talk about this freely at all and any time . We can go out together . I can go out with friends dressed. I can leave my things around with out the terrible fear of having to keep a secret . None of this was easy . I went through hell to get to this point .
To each is own is so true . Each person has to make their own choices . I support anyones decision to stay in or to get out of any closet . If you can tell your partner asap please do it . the risk is 50/50 on how things will go . the long run result might be better than you can imagine . I went to the bottom of grief in losing my marriage . while at that terrible feeling I never expected to be 100 times happier with someone new. going forward after divorce I took the risk at the first date and it was worth it. I have an amazing new partner . She is amazing and good in so many ways. I can't say I am glad to go through that , but i wouldn't trade my new happier and more open life for my old deep dark secret life . True . it's not simple for anyone .

[Becky Blue]

Rachel and Barbra both point out that at the beginning when they met their wives they did not understand enough about themselves to share their secret, that is a very good reason not to say anything at the get go.

Barbara, i have to disagree with your statement that telling is a 50/50 risk and that is really a summary of some of what i am trying to say. In some cases telling may be a 20/80 risk and in others a 80/20 risk it depends on so many factors. You also make another good point where you say that you did not tell you wife and you tried to, but you did not understand yourself. Now with your new relationship it was a lot easier to tell as you understood yourself and was 15 years older. Also given it was your first date you had very little to lose by telling her so soon. Worst case would have been no second date.

[ReineD]

Reine, I am not rationalising! when I was 22 I did not discuss sexual fantasies of any sort with my wife to be. It was not a case of selectively deciding what to tell or not to tell but we did not have that level of intimacy at that stage of our relationship. Of course others may well discuss it at 15 as Nadine did. I think you have missed the entire point of what I was trying to say, which is that everyone is different and that its never as simple as saying I told at the beginning so everyone should.

We're both saying the same thing, which is that you were not ready to tell your wife about your sexual fantasies at 22, and that this does not describe everyone because some people can and do discuss these things at 22. I suggested you were rationalizing because I thought you were saying that no 22 year-old is ever ready to discuss his sexual fantasies with his wife.

In your OP, you asked what to do when it is only sexual fantasy in early adulthood and the desire to dress on a regular basis doesn't manifest itself until middle age. I countered with the idea that the telling can indeed begin at the sexual fantasy stage, which would certainly make it easier to tell later on when the need increases to dress more thouroughly, frequently, and publicly.

Wanting to present as a woman can manifest itself early on for some people, but for others, it does stay at the sexual fantasy stage for a long time as it slowly increases to the point where there develops a need to interact with and be seen by others while dressed. Some people can take one year to get from point A to B, while others take 20 years. Still, it's not as if most CDers start out at point B. The speed with which it goes from point A to point B depends on too many different factors to list, but some of them are how well the CDer is open about the idea of CDing to begin with and what are his life circumstances. Is he conservative by nature, does he know others who do this, does he live in a diverse urban area, etc. But in the end, it certainly is easier for a spouse to be told when it is still at point A.

So your only recourse now (if you posted this thread because you are searching for what to tell your wife), is to tell her that you are sorry you didn't tell her about the sexual fantasies all those years ago (as Char had suggested in the other thread), but this is indeed when it all began. And you can hope, given that she shares your sexual intimacy history, that she will understand why you didn't feel you could tell her earlier.

[Becky Blue]

Reine, perhaps this discussion is going to be very helpful for some of the people who are new to all this. Firstly I do agree that we are all different. Secondly and importantly, I think perhaps you don't quite understand the nature of the CD fantasy in my case. At the age I met my wife i had maybe 3 or 4 fantasies one of which was putting on items of female clothing. At this stage that fantasy was really not a big deal. I was not in denial of some future feelings, it was just one of 3 or 4 things that turned me on. The idea that it may one day evolve into more did not cross my mind. Over the next 15 or so years i did not spend anytime analysing why I felt turned on by putting on an item of female clothing, it was really a VERY minor thing.

At no stage over those years did the desire to dress increase, as there was never any desire at all. A fantasy is not a desire, as you know fantasies are often things we can't do and to stress again I was not in some kind of denial, there was nothing to deny, I accepted my fantasy from the get go.

See you seem to think that there is a point A and a route to point B, that may well be the case for some, for others it does not work that way. Without repeating my lifestory again in detail. Literally overnight suddenly at age around 40 Becky emerged, I jumped from A to B or C with no known reason, no logical explanation it just happened. The sexual side disappeared totally as I developed intense feelings of needing to dress, etc etc. At no stage in my life have I ever been ashamed of who I am (in fact the opposite) I have never been in denial, I welcomed Becky as part of me.

My reasons for starting this thread were very simple, so provide some balance to the ongoing and various discussions about telling or not telling. Unlike many on here I do not have an agender with regards to whether people should tell or should not. As you would know there are a lot of strong and influential voices on here that push a strong line that one should always tell your SO. I fear that some people come to this forum and perhaps are influenced by some strong voices. I am simply saying that it is never that simple. Each relationship is unique and there are countless variations in the people that post on here and that in many cases telling is the best thing to do for all involved but that for others it is not the right thing to do.

As for myself I am very comfortable with where I am and what I have shared with my wife and what I have chosen not to share. I have made my decision based on my marriage, my situation and more than anything I have taken my wife's feelings into account, its not just about me.

[ReineD]

At the age I met my wife i had maybe 3 or 4 fantasies one of which was putting on items of female clothing. At this stage that fantasy was really not a big deal. I was not in denial of some future feelings, it was just one of 3 or 4 things that turned me on. The idea that it may one day evolve into more did not cross my mind. Over the next 15 or so years i did not spend anytime analysing why I felt turned on by putting on an item of female clothing, it was really a VERY minor thing.

I don't know how old you are and how many resources there were online when you were 22. But, this is indeed when it started, unless the sexual aspect did start earlier in your teens or pre-teens, as it does with most CDers. I think you're seeing your sexual fantasies at 22 as being different from your need to dress now. They're not really, it's just one long, rather common progression for the vast majority of CDers, all of whom have a different timeline for going from point A to point B.

Twenty-two-year-old CDers today can come to forums like this one and learn about the progression. It's too bad you had no way to do that (assuming you didn't), but it doesn't change the fact that a desire to present as Becky didn't start out of the blue in your middle age. It began with sexual fantasies much earlier on. And so again, if you did start this thread with the view of searching for what to tell your wife, you can share with her that the signs were there early on in your life except you didn't recognize it for what it was then because you had no resources.

[cdtraveler]

The DADT strategy I find is difficult as it relates to feeling safe to discuss possible evolving feelings regarding my fem side as it sugests tollerence but not acceptance so every time the suject comes up its fear based. Still better than getting an "I'm done"

[Teresa]

Reine,
I can't speak for anyone else but the full sexual thing hit me at 8-9 years and I didn't have a clue what was going on or why I wanted to wear the clothes. I can see it all now looking back , I repeatedly suggest members do that because that is where most of the truth is .To be left with a feeling for years that nags at you everyday does tear you apart . Forums aren't perfect but I'm so pleased we have them, I know in my case it's pointing me in the right direction, and I'm finally finding myself. To think it's not long ago that it was a criminal act to walk the streets as a CDer .

[Becky Blue]

Reine firstly it did not start for me at 22 it started at 12 and obviously i know there is a connection between what I was then and what happened to me at 40. When I was 12 they did not even have PC's never mind the internet.

What I am now however is very different to what I was then. For me there was no progression. One stopped and the other started. After reading a very interesting book Alice in Genderland I realised that the signs were there very early on in my life as a recalled things from my young childhood that would not be deemed normal behaviors for a 5 or 6 year old boy.

Yet again though you seem to miss my point, when I met my wife CDing was such an irrelevancy to me that there was never any consideration of telling her. It is very easy to sit here much older and wiser and look back and say had I known then what I know now things would be different. Even though we did not have the internet, I was aware of sex change operations as they called them then. Not for 1 second did I link that with the fact that putting on a bra or panties was a turn on.

Reine you have to remember that you and the other wives and SO's who come on here are the exceptions. the vast majority of wives of cd/tg/ts husbands are not supportive as you wonderful women are. Your acceptance is the exception.

I am also unclear why you keep repeating that if I am here searching for what to tell my wife... I have made it patently clear more than once that the reason for this thread was to generate a discussion around telling or not telling. As you can see from my 800 or so posts I am a straight shooter and tell it like I see it, if I wanted help with telling my wife I would ask for it.

[Gillian Gigs]

Becky, everything that you have written makes perfect sense to me. Someone said this statement and it is so true, "hindsight has perfect 20/20 vision". There was no internet in my youth either, one heard about sex change operations in super market tabloids, well that should say enough in itself. So what was left for a boy to think, who liked to go into their mothers, or sisters dresser drawers? Let's put it simply, many of us thought of ourselves as some weird kind of freak. You kept your mouth shut and said nothing to no-one. Why, because society likes people to conform, and this screamed of non-conformity. So why would anything change when someone met their future wife? Didn't many of us think that it was just a passing phase? Where were we going to get some perspective on who we were and how we were not alone. I remember as a young adult going to the library to research this subject, and there was not very much material. Most of what could be found fit into psychiatry, OMG was I crazy.
Knowing what I know now, things would be totally different, but again hindsight is 20/20. My wife would have known sooner, it took 20 years of marriage. I would have accepted my quirks, gifts, whatever, sooner and been able to move on with my life. When I was born I didn't get an owners manual explaining my inherent nature, and neither did anyone else. We just stumble along doing the best that we can. It's just too bad that more people can't be more understanding.

[ReineD]

I can't speak for anyone else but the full sexual thing hit me at 8-9 years


Reine firstly it did not start for me at 22 it started at 12

Yes, I did mention teen or pre-teen. And if you're aware of childhood sexual development, some kids can have orgasmic experiences, meaning they experience intense pleasure even if there is no ejaculate, quite early.

[Becky Blue]

I really don't think that is relevant Reine, the topic is about how complex it can be with regards to telling or not telling our SO's. The fact that whatever it is started for some at age 4 or age 12 or age 50 or whether it was or is at one stage sexual really just adds to the complexity.

[ReineD]

Becky, the childhood sexual development comment was directed at Teresa, who brought up the sexual aspect at age 8 or 9. I quoted your "age 12" comment to point out that I didn't judge you as having started at age 22, I also said it could have been teen or pre-teen, which you subsequently confirmed. I was addressing your comment made to me, in your first paragraph of post #71. And, you did bring up that it was sexual for you at age 22 (and presumably earlier).

I know what the original topic is. And we'll just have to disagree on whether it is a progression or not for you. But, the vast majority of CDers do begin with sexual fantasies and sexual gratification, and it does change over time to instead wanting to interact with others as the target gender. But, since everyone has a different libido, for some CDers the intensity of the sexual aspect remains through middle age, while for others it abates greatly, and it abates completely for yet others.

As to whether or not to tell your wife, this all depends on how comfortable you are with not telling her. Most people tell their wives when they need to dress more often than they can comfortably hide.

[Becky Blue]

Reine, it seems to me as if you believe that all of us fit into one or two neat categories and that 'we' are all very similar, with just variations in timing and how far we go. if that is not your view then i apologise in advance.

There is a huge variation across this T world of ours which many people call a spectrum. Some are CD's at the start and are still CD's at the end. For some its sexual always for others never and for others the sexual side is a progression. Then others are clearly women trapped in the wrong bodies, for some this is almost from birth and for others its late onset.

By no means do all of us fall into those two categories there are many many others who define themselves as neither or both. I for example consider myself to be more Trans than CD but at different times in my life I have felt differently. 10 years ago I felt more than I do today.

[Paigeturner71]

I started out bi and had sexual encounters with females and males. Sex with men was usually followed with feelings of shame ay first. After I came to accept that part of my sexuality realizing that I a strong urgent feminine side did not manifest itself until many years later. Now I accept all that I am but still fearful of sharing it with the world. Necause it's a cruel world. I'm very happy I discovered these forums. Affirmation and acceptance are important to those that are different and struggling to make their way through the gauntlet of life.

[GeorgiaD]

Very true Becky. Life is complicated, and hindsight isn't any use to anyone. Do I wish my partner knew and embraced my alter ego? Yes, of course. Is it worth the risk of telling her? I'm risk averse, so no.

[ReineD]

Becky, you mention "one or two neat categories". You didn't name them, but I assume you had specific acronyms in mind.

I've learned over the years that acronyms that identify a person's gender identity are pretty useless. For example, three people who are not full-time might have similar motives, similar experiences, they might dress in similar ways and as frequently, etc. One might identify as CD, the other as TG, and the other as one of the non-binary labels.

So no, I don't think there are only two pigeonholes for members here. But, if a person has sexual fantasies about the crossdressing at an early age, this is a pretty good predictor that they will eventually crossdress and further, that for many if not most of them, the sexual aspect will eventually wane over the years, no matter how they end up identifying. I say this based on years of having read tens of thousands of posts here.

[AnnaMarie]

For many on here we start as occasional CDs and then things evolve often slowly, at what stage do we suddenly think OMG this is something I need to share with my SO? Not so simple....

And those who do tell at the start and a DADT situation results, do you regularly update the DADT SO when things change?

To bring things back on topic. I risked my marriage, family and everything I had telling my wife. I know she's got quite traditional values and even the thought of the lads in Duran Duran wearing lipstick in the 80's is a huge turn off for her. My feelings and needs got to such an intense level that I had so much guilt in wanting to go out, dress and meet others in a similar situation. Having lied twice about my whereabouts I couldn't do this again and it was getting me very down. I wrote everything in a letter and told her everything.
It went better than I thought until it sank in. Now it's not talked about. I've given time for questions even asking if there is anything she'd like to discuss. My dressing has been put in a mental cupboard and the door locked. She knows I do it, I get permission to go out, but we never ever discuss it. I don't think this will ever change.

[nikkiwindsor]

Life is so very different for all of us that I cannot imagine trying to suggest to others how to live it. I think everyone should decide for themselves how to relate to their significant other. And while the forum is a great way to communicate, it isn't a channel for effectively getting to know someone fully and understand the entire context of the life they live. So, any "advice" provided to someone else here could really miss the mark in what would be "best" for their relationship. In reading some of these posts, my thoughts were affirmed when I appreciated just how far off the mark some remarks between our forum members. How many times did someone say in this thread something to the effect of, "no, that's not the point" or "no, that's not what I meant" or " that's not how I felt." Each of us has a unique life, unique experiences, and a unique and unknown journey into the future. We cannot possibly have sufficient understanding to deliver advice, especially on matters as important and as deeply complex as gender, to someone else. Rather, an approach that seems to work well within the forum is for us to continue sharing our experiences, decisions, attitudes, beliefs, and ways of wandering this world and let others use it as they see fit within their own life. We're not in a position to judge others or know what is best for someone. Let's just be here for each other by providing support, inspiration, words of encouragement, and our own stories in the hope and with the desire that it helps others or simply brings a bit of joy or happiness. Nikki

[Samm]

Life is so very different for all of us that I cannot imagine trying to suggest to others how to live it. I think everyone should decide for themselves how to relate to their significant other. And while the forum is a great way to communicate, it isn't a channel for effectively getting to know someone fully and understand the entire context of the life they live. So, any "advice" provided to someone else here could really miss the mark in what would be "best" for their relationship. In reading some of these posts, my thoughts were affirmed when I appreciated just how far off the mark some remarks between our forum members. How many times did someone say in this thread something to the effect of, "no, that's not the point" or "no, that's not what I meant" or " that's not how I felt." Each of us has a unique life, unique experiences, and a unique and unknown journey into the future. We cannot possibly have sufficient understanding to deliver advice, especially on matters as important and as deeply complex as gender, to someone else. Rather, an approach that seems to work well within the forum is for us to continue sharing our experiences, decisions, attitudes, beliefs, and ways of wandering this world and let others use it as they see fit within their own life. We're not in a position to judge others or know what is best for someone. Let's just be here for each other by providing support, inspiration, words of encouragement, and our own stories in the hope and with the desire that it helps others or simply brings a bit of joy or happiness. Nikki

This should be a sticky in the forum rules section.

[Becky Blue]

Well said Nikki, instead of people saying you should or should not do or say X, rather say I did or said X and this is what happened or I believe that in my case.....