Ultimatum

[ChristinaK]

My wife just overheard a conversation with a gg friend about Christina. She has given me an ultimatum of her and my daughter or Christina. Complete purge or divorce. I'm very sad as Christina is part of me and the only happiness I have in my life. But, I don't want to lose my family either.

She knew I dress at home alone and suspected that I dress in public, but now has the proof. It's total control and she's forcing me to be "the man she married."

I don't think I can do it, but I don't want to lose my family.

[Rachael Leigh]

Christina I'm so sorry this is a very difficult situation but I for one hate ultimatums, it's not fair to you or really your spouse
Counseling needs to be the first step here and hopefully one who has gender variant experience.
I pray you and your wife can find some common ground

[sometimes_miss]

I'm going to second the suggestion that you find a gender friendly therapist, and hope you can get your wife to go with you. And stop referring to 'Christina' in third person. The first hurdle to address is admitting that it's all YOU. It's a big step, but It's not fooling anyone except yourself. As difficult as it may be to admit that you have female feelings, it's better than using all kinds of mental gymnastics to try to keep it as if it's an entire separate personality, all because of the taboo our society creates that keeps men from doing or displaying anything that might make us seem less manly. Once she sees that you can be both manly and feminine, perhaps she will realize that she's not 'losing the man she married', as so many others have put it. Not losing a husband but gaining a sometimes girlfriend? That will be a difficult thing for HER to adapt to, but it's better than splitting up over all this. Because the urge to crossdress is coming from somewhere, and it's not going to go away. You're going to have to reconcile this one way or another.

[ChristinaK]

I just saw the thread "no more dressing." I hadn't looked before I wrote. Very similar. I am seeing a therapist. My wife says she's just enabling me and is part of the problem and wants me to stop seeing her.

It's so difficult to talk to my wife about this. I wish she could understand just a little, but she is convinced this is all because I'm bored and retired.

[phili]

Refuse the ultimatum. It is a power play, perhaps from desperation, but you have equal power. Say no, we are a couple and we have a lot to live for, not to mention raising our daughter and supporting each other in the twilight years! We need to get the bottom of your fear and willingness to leave, and thought that you somehow own our daughter more than I do, just as much as we need to get to the bottom of why I feel I must crossdress! This is what it means to have and to hold, to cherish and protect, love and honor each other.

[char GG]

I am very sorry things are going this way for you. I am curious about your saying "this is the only happiness I have in my life". I am certainly not an expert on CDing or gender related issues but this seems more of a life statement. There should be more happiness in life than just one thing.

My husband is in a support group and one biggest complaint that I hear from wives is that it's not about the clothes but about the actions - Such as sneaking around, lying, keeping secrets, etc. You say that your wife "has the proof" that you dress in public. So, apparently she didn't know. It's hard to make amends after the fact but it sometimes can be done.

I am just suggesting that if you really want to keep you family together, make sure to let your wife know how you feel about her; that you want to be with her (if that is the case). Maybe she will come around to a compromise so you both will be happy. Best wishes to both of you.

[Micki_Finn]

Christina, I'm sorry for your situation, but she has every right to her feelings, especially if you were going behind her back with your dressing. You can't force her to be comfortable any more than she can force you to stop dressing. I don't think she's being purposely controlling. It sounds like she just ran into a hard limit for her and has drawn the line.

[kimdl93]

I too was puzzled and I guess saddened to see that reference to CDing as being your only happiness in life. If its true, what does that say about the time you spend with your wife and daughter (an adult by now, I presume). But think carefully, that sentence in the moment it was written, may not accurately and fully the value you place on your wife, your daughter and life, relative to CDing.

Once upon a time, a therapist suggested that thoughts and beliefs were rather like the layers of an onion....peel away one and you find another. Eventually, you may reach a tiny core. It could be the "real cause" but its just as likely, that the core is just another bit of the onion.

I can't speak to the place CDing has in your life, nor that of your family. I can tell you what its like to be alone at 64, after a long relationship...one that I am afraid I undervalued, relative my CDing. It sucks. I likely can't get it back, and my culpability is a deep and raw wound, even nearly 2 years afterward.

[Stephanie47]

I've read many of your previous posts and have commented on some. There was a post concerning having your ears pierced. Another you said you shave your body. These actions alone are enough to set off a non-accepting wife. It's an "in your face" action. You've indicated in your post or you indicated your wife said being a bored retiree has something to do with your cross dressing. Too much time on your hands? When I first retired and having a still working wife I admit to being totally consumed with a build up demand to be en femme. It lasted awhile. I realized I was not accomplishing many chores outside our home's four walls.

I always wonder about these threads where a wife has set down an ultimatum. Here, it's indicated there is no happiness in your life. That is not a good sign. I wonder if it is because you are focused solely on an activity which your wife does not appreciated. Your marriage is hardly a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" marriage.

Char makes a good point as far as how a woman/wife sees activities. Sneaking around does not go over well. I do realize many have to sneak around otherwise one cannot engage in cross dressing. If your wife thinks seeing a gender therapist only is enabling you that's going to be difficult to overcome unless your wife attends with you. I am curious as to why you are seeing a therapist. Is it to figure out where you are personally headed on this spectrum or is it to figure out how you balance the issues on the domestic front, i.e., your wife?

I always believe there is room for compromise in these situations. Sometimes laying all the cards on the table does get results. When a wife says it's between cross dressing or her there are consequences for her too if you divorce. There is loss of income. She may lose social status. Ask her if she is really willing to dissolve a marriage on this one issue.

I will say as one retiree to another, get out of the house and find something else to do to consume your time.

[NicoleScott]

I agree with phili that you should refuse the ultimatum. It's her way of transferring her decision (to stay or go) to you. So let her decide by not giving her an answer to her ultimatum (threat).
We're good now, but there was a rough patch long ago when my wife often threatened divorce. I suspected it was just her way of trying to win disagreements, so one time I dropped a phone book in her lap and said "call a lawyer". She quit doing that.
A conversation initiated by an employee went like this:
"If I am to continue working here, I have to have more money".
"I accept your resignation".
"Wait a minute. I didn't mean....I don't want to....."
He didn't quit.
Don't allow others to transfer their decisions to you. Of course, you have your own decisions to make (keep CDing or quit). Not much of choice, is it?

[Rachel05]

Having been through similar but not quite the same, one thing just struck me now, my wife did have the man she married as I was cross dressing way before I met her, dated her and married her, all through that time I dressed, it is very much part of who we are and for me, the way I am wired, but of course that is a very difficult thing to try and explain

I am just me and I love to dress in ladies clothes, always have and always will and in fact if she forces you to stop then actually you won't be the man she married and you may well struggle to leave Christina behind, which in my case brought its own set of problems

I really am sorry that you are having to go through this

[Judy-Somthing]

Wow, sorry about your situation. It's very similar to mine.
I about 18 months ago the Pink-Fog hit me hard and I was looking to get a professional makeover wen I found tis site.
Up until then I hadn't talk to anyone about my CDing in about thirty years. It felt good to tell others here.
This year after my wife found my 4" heels (which she threw out, thank you very much) I told her I had been dressing behind her back, she was pretty unhappy.

At this point the Pink-Fog is low and I haven't dressed or felt like dressing in three months, Purge 1/2 and put the rest in deep storage.
Three months ago when she was at her angriest point she said she doesn't want a devoice.
She wants me to stop dressing and said she knows I'll most likely dress again.

Good luck with your situation.

[Shaedow]

I agree mostly with Char. Your statement that dressing is the "only" happiness in your life says a lot about your feelings for your family. Please explore / evaluate your feelings behind this statement before you evaluate hers. Are you exhibiting your unhappiness (even if it's subconsciously) in your interactions with your wife? I would hazard a guess that she is unhappy as well, perhaps as a reflection of yours. Also, what is your goal in therapy? To validate your dressing so you can use it to try to influence your wife? This is a sad situation all the way around....

[Tracii G]

I'm in the camp of don't even entertain the ultimatum. Tell her no.
You have the right to be happy just as much as she does so stand your ground.
If she gets pissed give her an ultimatum.
I'm just guessing here but you don't assert your self very often do you? She makes all the decisions around the house you just say "yes dear"?
Stand up and say what you have to say at least she will respect you for speaking your mind because its obvious she does not respect you now.

[Fiona123]

You can purge, but you will be miserable, resentful and worse off than you are now. Purging does not last. Try counseling. Tracii may be right though, you need to be true to yourself.

[ChristinaK]

I'm going to therapy to deal with my transgender ism, how to improve my relationship and depression. I think I'm going to ignore what my wife said and see what happens. I'm sure at some point she will throw out all my stuff.

She's a good person and I don't want a divorce. So, I'll have to comply if she does that. Her clothes fit me so I know I'll go back to wearing her stuff. It's been with me my entire life and won't go away.

When I said being Christina is the only happiness I have, I meant besides my family.

Thank you all for your support and advise.

[Alice Torn]

It is tough to hear this. A real big challenge here. I feel for you. Not married, but i know if certain relatives or others who know me, found out, I would be in a world of crap. I agree with Sometimes Miss on this. it is you, not a third person. I hope she will be willing to go to a therapist with you. If not, maybe a separation would be good, not a divorce, so that maybe she will have time to be educated about this thing you do, and maybe compromise later? best wishes, in whatever happens. time can heal.

[Teresa]

Christina,
You don't say how long you've been married and your profile doesn't say your age. I don't mean to pry but it does have some bearing on the answers we can offer. Also are children involved , when you say you don't want to loose your family I assume there are.

To deal with the ultimatum I was going to suggest you call her bluff but as I've said it depends the points I've just made. The reason why I say this is my children are mid to late thirties and they both know about my CDing as do their married partners. I have the full support and respect from them so if my wife threatened the same thing she would have to negotiate with my children as well. In fact when we nearly separated it was their thoughts and influence that kept us together. They would have accepted the alternative but my wife and I knew we were going to hurt them .

OK your wife is upset, so what aspect worries her most, I also assume she is unhappy about getting it second hand from the overheard conversation.
I keep telling my wife she still has the man she married only there was a part she knew nothing about. I have pointed out that I would also like to have the woman I married but that isn't going to happen either, I respect her for deciding she no longer wants intimate contact, that goes back ten years now, and is nothing to do with my CDing, I haven't given any ultimatums but I'm still hurt by it. She know my CDing has substituted her , that's how she wants it and has to live with it.

I've just read your last reply and wonder if it's a wise move to continue to dress under the circumstances using her clothes, that appears to be rubbing salt in the wounds . I do feel you need to find yourself so you can give definite answers to why you can't stop dressing.

I would still say call her bluff, your family will understand, you won't lose them, my daughter is annoyed with my wife over her lack of understanding. I'm not sure about my son he relies on my wife so much he would probably support her rather than me .

[Tracii G]

Your last post sounds so defeatist Christina almost like you are giving in to her.
You have been conditioned to think you don't matter when in fact you DO matter.
Would your family survived all these years if you hadn't provided for them by earning an income?
Helped raise the kids, help keep the home up?.
She is being very stubborn and seems not to actually give two shits about you and what you need as far as support for your TGism.
I say call her bluff and just act like she couldn't have been serious.
This is all my opinion and I have no idea what the other side of the story is and how you have treated her during all of this.
If you have been an ahole and a jerk well maybe she does have a point.
Just calling it as I see it nothing more nothing less.

[ChristinaK]

Teresa, we've been married 13 years and have a 12 yr old daughter. I am 57, as is my wife. You are right about dealing with our daughter. She would be devastated if I had to leave, especially since it's my wife who chooses not to understand or consider my feelings.

Update: she's going to go to my next therapy meeting. She won't like what she hears, that's for sure, but maybe it will open the door a crack.

Her fear is that when I'm out, friends, coworkers or my daughters friends might see me and bring shame and ridicule on the family.

I have found most people to be very supportive. We live in California where people are pretty progressive. My neighbors have seen me. Big deal, nothing has happened as a result. Her best friend knows and my wife doesn't even know that she knows.

Seems kind of trivial to deny an important part of me for fear of her getting embarrassed, but maybe I'm totally wrong too.

[Teresa]

Christina,
Thanks for that, you daughter isn't at the age to offer the same support as mine she still needs yours, you have to be there for her.

My wife refused to attend counseling with me, I was the one with the problem so it was for me to get it fixed , that is hard because you can only move forward with a partner on board otherwise you just hit a brick wall. i also feel my wife didn't want to hear some home truths , I'd explained enough about my CDing for her to realise it wasn't going away and she would have to try and accommodate to some extent .

I have to say this fear of ridicule and embarrassment hasn't really happened for me either , OK people can and will talk behind your back at times without CDing coming into it , so many people know or have seen my pictures I'm beginning to forget , most of the fears are unfounded ones inside our heads .

[char GG]

Her clothes fit me so I know I'll go back to wearing her stuff.

You may want to rethink this activity. At least get your own stuff.

[Tracii G]

Wearing her clothes is a huge no no she will know you wore it trust me and that will piss her off to no end.
Wear your own stuff.
As far as the therapy session be firm and don't give in to your wife take a stand.
Show her you are a gown ass man that just happens to like womens clothes and is TG.

[Joni T]

Why is the first response always "You need counseling"??? The first thing you need to do is to get ALL your femme stuff out of the house--ALL OF IT, then sit down with your wife, try to have a civilized discussion, and see if you can come to a mutual disagreement. If that doesn't work, you have 2 choices, and only 2--family or dressing. Trust me, the dressing CAN be over come and losing the family will be a MAJOR expense, both emotionally and financially.
Good luck, my friend. I've been divorced twice and although the dressing wasn't a part of either, neither was pleasant.
Jon

[Tracii G]

The wife needs to stop using the daughter as a bargaining chip that alone is disgusting.
I hate when a parent tries to keep the other parent away from their kid. Its not the kids fault if the parents don't get along.

[AllieSF]

Sorry Joni, but recommending someone consider qualified professional third part therapy can be a great help for most people if they go into it looking for help and are open and honest about everything to the therapist. Of course, there are those people who fight therapy and therefore stand little chance of success. Also yes, sometimes we pick the wrong therapist, just like picking the wrong doctor. And there many options, like keep lying and hope for the best, keep trying in the communication area, separate, and no you are not doing bad for the kids if you separate and start living your own lives, as long as you pay your dues, alimony, child support and continue to be a loving parent to your children. With over a 50% divorce rate in the USA, many families find a way to maintain a decent life for themselves and for their children. In other words, separation can be the best alternative for all parties, including the children. I am totally against couples staying together for the children and then fight or argue all the time and create a worse environment for them.

[Aunt Kelly]

+1 to the suggestions to call her bluff. You are being manipulated. You don't have to make it confrontational or defensive, but you need to: a) Recognize that your TG nature is not going to go away, and b) proceed with finding constructive solutions within that reality. Ultimatums are destructive, yours or hers. You may or may not be able to get her to accept your TG nature as a permanent thing, but some kind of accommodation should be the goal. You will need professional help in this. All the rational discourse in the world will most likely appear as self-serving if it comes from you. Let her know that your family is your priority and that counseling, for both of you, is something you view as essential in getting past this very contentious place you've found yourselves.

[jennifer0918]

Put on your poker face,call her bluff, go all in. Life's a risk,no way she will remove the father of her child from her life. Like it or not you are a huge part of her life. Do not stand down,stand firm and carry on.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

I'm very sad as Christina is part of me and the only happiness I have in my life. But, I don't want to lose my family either.

I'm very sorry that things have come to this stage Christina.

When you say that your femme side is the only happiness you have in your life, it seems your marriage must really have been over many years ago and that what keeps you together is either your daughter, sheer financial necessity, or a shared fear of being alone.

When you say 'I don't think I can do it' what do you mean? Are you facing depression? Have you thoughts of harming yourself?

Is it time to get some professional help, at this crossroads in your life?



Show her you are a gown ass man...

Freudian slip of the week?

[Tiffany in heels]

From everything I read, it doesn't sound like his wife is bluffing. I think she would leave him and he would be left alone. Christina did not say she wouldn't let him see his daughter but the daughter usually goes with the mother when divorcing. But as i read, it sounds like we are not hearing everything that is going on. Neighbors know, wife friend knows and she obviously hates it. Christina probably just needs to make some compromises also. Maybe not dressing up and walking out of the house and in front of people you know. Seems like many here get dressed an go out in neighboring cities where thy are not known. Your wife probably would just appreciate it if you didn't parade it to everyone. If she would throw all your stuff out its probably because you have it somewhere she can access it and doesn't want to see it. Sounds like you should move it to another area of your house.

[Tina_gm]

I don't know if this will surprise,anyone on here who knows how I feel about favoring compromise and making deep sacrifices, but I would in not any nice way tell my wife where she could put an ultimatum.

Personally if it gets to that point I think the marriage or relationship is likely past the point of return. Or perhaps at best case scenario the cder who has been given such an ultimatum has never been at all good with communication or has not shown they can be honest and sincere. Not that that is a good scenario either, just that it might be a situation which could be recovered from. If it's just the partner pushing off that type of control, being that angry about something like this, to the point of demanding a total shut down, it really is imo time to go, or for her to go.

Because I am one of much compromise and sacrifice, should my wife ever then come to me and say no more or else i would be opening the door for her one last time. I've made it to where she really doesn't have to deal with it, other than the knowledge of it. If THAT isn't good enough, it is no longer about dressing, it's about control of a type I will never stand for. If she hates it so much, then there's no point in her being with me. That is how I would feel if I was given the ultimatum. Granted, as I've said, my wife doesn't really have to deal with much. What she does (leg shaving) and natural feminine mannerisms she has said she doesn't have problems with. If she starts to, then it really just starts to become an non repairable rift.

I'm all for big compromises and sacrifices, but not to a point where we sacrifice our entire core being.

[Devi SM]

"
Wow! Christina I'd like you read again and confirm what you wrote:

" I'm very sad as Christina is part of me and the only happiness I have in my life. But, I don't want to lose my family either."

Being who you are is your only happiness and you're going to renounce to it?
I know a family is important but you're not mother Teresa, if what you say is true and your family gives you less happiness than being you, what makes sense, you won't loose your family but youre gonna loose your happiness.


"I don't think I can do it, but I don't want to lose my family.[/QUOTE]

So if you're not sure to be able to keep you away of dressing, you're gonna loose your family anyway and in worse way but then you're gonna feel guilty for fail.

There's no way of lose a family.
If they kik you out their life without forgiveness what kind of family is.
You're looking nothing, but just people.you live with that don't let you be happy.

If your declaration are not correct think about it.

I passed for it and even things are not 100% good today, at least she knows, I don't feel guilty of lying. because I'm not longer lying and I keep my family and my happiness as Vanessa.

I don't want to get to end if my life with regrets of what I did but what I didn't do

[Stephanie47]

If Christina has been seen by neighbors and the wife's best friend knows and the world has not come to an end, maybe that should be conveyed to Christina's wife. The cats out of the bag so to speak. This is an ongoing problem with the dynamics between wives and cross dressing husbands. "What will the neighbors think?" Here come the hoards with pitchforks! It's not the cross dressing as much as the potential thought of loss of job, social status in the neighborhood and church and the family. "Why does she stay with a man who wears dresses, makeup and a wig? What wrong with her?"

I know, I know, women are going to argue they were not given the choice before saying "I do" to the marriage proposal. That's true. But, it is also in the past. Where do we go from here?" Decades of marriage and supposed happiness thrown down the drain because of fear of social norms? Maybe before a wife makes demands, as in Christina's and Judy's cases, they should take out the marriage scale and weigh the positive attributes of a husband against this little quirk of wearing women's clothing. Is it worth throwing the husband away? Kick him to the curb? If that's the answer I feel the woman is pretty shallow.

Yes, there can be compromise and boundaries set. I truly get it that a woman does not want another woman in the bedroom. Or to see her sitting in the living room all dolled up. A man should be willing to accommodate his wife's reasonable requests also.

[Alice Torn]

Very good post, Stephanie47. A list of positives and negatives of breaking up. I like your weighing it all on scales analogy.

[Aunt Kelly]

I'd like to add my appreciation for the wise words from Stephanie47. Boundaries and compromise are expected in virtually every other facet of long-term inter-personal relationships, but not in the case of a TG partner. Why? Yes, that's a rhetorical question, but feel free... :)

[Kelly DeWinter]

I'm still confused with this part from the op "My wife just overheard a conversation with a gg friend about Christina". ?????

[Tracii G]

I thought I was the only one that noticed that Kelly.

[Invisible Emily]

I'm sorry for your situation. I find it interesting that your wife is more concerned about upsetting the social norms when you are the one that is dressing. I just think she has no right to fear being embarrassed if it's not something that is connected to her as an individual. By giving you an ultimatum on something that means so much to you she is just perpetuating the problems society already has with cross dressing. I know she doesn't like it, but this situation isn't helping anyone and even if she doesn't approve of you dressing I would think your feelings and thoughts would mean more to her over the feelings of your neighbors or your daughters friends. Hope it works out.

[Tracii G]

Emily some women think the relationship is all about them and what they want and the husband is just a provider(earns money) and nothing more.
His wants and needs don't matter and they will suck the life out of a man just because he will let her.

[LeannS]

Christina

First off DON"T purge if you have to get a storage locker to put your stuff in. Don't throw it away!!!!
Divorce humm very tricky (ask a 3 timer) one thing no one is saying is if Divorce is put on the table if she works great no alimony for her
but since your daughter is 12 there is child support for the next 6 years will that eat into your retirement oh yes it will.
stop and think about it though Christina isn't going away but neither is child support.
Hope the best outcome for you really I do

Leann

[ChristinaK]

Teresa, I absolutely love the outfit you are wearing in your avatar picture and you look great! Your situation is very similar to mine, but you have made more progress and you give me a little hope.

Stephanie, I almost told her about her friend and the neighbors seeing me, but she's already upset that both her and my therapists know. She feels very betrayed, which I can understand. Maybe, when we are in therapy this week, I will mention that issue and that I have seen neither pitchforks nor torches.

For those that are wondering about my gg friend, she is an older lady that I became friends with who had a crossdressing husband. My wife has met her and is fine with it. I had asked her via a voice mail if it was okay to meet with her as Christina as we are going to get together this week after my group therapy where I present as Christina. She called back when I was on the couch with my wife, so I went into my bathroom to speak with her. My wife was listening at the door, unknown to me. She said she had come into the bedroom to get ready to leave. Who knows?

I have talked to my wife twice now. She has calmed down a little and said today she wants ME to throw away my stuff because if she does it I will hate her for it. What's the difference? I told her I can't do it and offered to move my clothes into my home office. That may be one compromise. She knows I've been going to group therapy dressed. 3 counselors have implored me to do so and the group has been very accepting, especially the women. They treat me like one of them and it feels great. So, again as a compromise, I told her I would stop that, which she appreciated. As for my mental health? She doesn't care about that. The counselors and group members will be disappointed.

I have tried to explain what it's like to grow up and spend your whole life hiding, living with shame, guilt and fear. She says she understands but will never accept it. She says I can control it and that it's a conscious decision to dress up and be a woman which I can choose to avoid. Besides the possibility of bringing shame to the family, she feels threatened by my dressing. I tried to assuage her fears, but she pointed out that my "sickness" has progressed and I might want to transition fully. I tried to assure her that I love her and my family and like to be a man too, so I will never transition.

She said she doesn't want to talk about this every day, but I told her we wouldn't, that she just found out and that we needed to talk things out and come to an understanding. I told her that an ultimatum is completely the wrong thing to threaten me with and not fair. That this a partnership, we're a couple and so we must compromise. Hopefully, after we see my therapist, she will lighten up a little. I think that if she would just try to compromise we could come to an understanding, such as me going out in another town, not dressing around her (which I don't) and me not having to keep things from her anymore.

I live in a city of 150,000. I don't hardly know my neighbors and don't work. When I did, it wasn't in this town. My wife doesn't work in this town either. My daughter's friend's parents probably wouldn't recognize me on the street in male mode, much less as Christina. I have no real friends in this town. So, I feel that dressing in this town is VERY low risk. But, I will drive 45 minutes to hang around in another town if that's what she requires.

Thank you again girls for your concern and advice.

[Tracii G]

Seems like you have asserted yourself some so thats good.
I think you talking to another woman on the phone no matter how old is a sticking point with her and I don't blame her for that.
Sickness? Oh really like what she is doing isn't borderline sickness using a mans child against him.
What would do her good is the therapist to go off on her ass for 30 mins and tell her what a bitch she is being.

[Invisible Emily]

Emily some women think the relationship is all about them and what they want and the husband is just a provider(earns money) and nothing more.
His wants and needs don't matter and they will suck the life out of a man just because he will let her.

Don't mean to come off harsh, but that's absolutely disgusting.

[Rogina B]

I'm going to therapy to deal with my transgender ism, how to improve my relationship and depression. I think I'm going to ignore what my wife said and see what happens. I'm sure at some point she will throw out all my stuff.

She's a good person and I don't want a divorce. So, I'll have to comply if she does that. Her clothes fit me so I know I'll go back to wearing her stuff.

When I said being Christina is the only happiness I have, I meant besides my family.

Thank you all for your support and advise.
You know that you can't give it up and wearing her clothes perhaps is part of the creepiness she feels ! You are a LONG way from normalizing your gender expression ! And that is half your fault..

[Tracii G]

Not too harsh Emily but its the truth.
Some women need 2 men in their life to be satisfied.
One is the husband to be the provider.the other to be the lover when they get tired of the husband.
I wish it wasn't that way but it is.

[phili]

My wife's reaction is pretty similar, but I take it mostly as she is very comfortable with the standard fairy tale that the husband is solid and manly and does predictable manly things, and she in turn has to go along with the womanly mirror tasks, which she is fine with. She really takes comfort in social norms as a guide to safety.

She gets my position theoretically, as a liberal would, but says it just turns her life upside down,and she is the type to continually agitate until she gets her way. That said, she knows that she has to defer to me if I insist. I don't like making her uncomfortable, and she thanks me when I change back into men's clothes so she can be comfortable. That feels good to me, and I go out and have a relationship as a cd with the faceless general public, and that works well enough so I don't feel critically confined.

The growth of this for me is that the more I go out and am accepted and life goes on, with me feeling like I finally can express my gender the way I feel it, the more secure I am. I just feel more integrated and peaceful, and ironically that helps me feel less worried or limited when I choose socially expected clothes.

[Kelly DeWinter]

Phili;

"but says it just turns her life upside down,and she is the type to continually agitate until she gets her way. That said, she knows that she has to defer to me if I insist. I don't like making her uncomfortable, and she thanks me when I change back into men's clothes so she can be comfortable."

I understand what you are saying, if it works for you, it works for you. This type of relationship would drive me bananas. It would be hard for me to have another relationship where I would be making someone uncomfortable or that they would agitate until they got their way. I prefer one where talking and encouraging one another in what makes them happy.

My ex MIL and FIL had the agitate until you got your way relationship. That poor man's only recreation was to go to the horse races once a month on the First Sat of the month. His wife would start on Monday and give him grief all week. Then on Sat at 9:30 AM he put his hat on went to the races, Came home at 4:30 on the dot. Put his winning on the Counter, kiss his wife on the cheek, pick up the paper and endure the silent treatment until dinner. At dinner after grace (where she would pray for his salvation from gambling) they would talk normal as you please , as if nothing happened. While doing the dishes the money would vanish into her apron pocket. This went on for 46 years. I later learned she would slip money into his coat pocket on Saturday morning. LOL.

[Tina_gm]

So many talk about going to see a therapist. In these situations though I don't see a whole lot being gained by doing so. 2 outcomes, the therapists tells the wife that there's nothing inherently wrong with it, and compromise and communication are the key blah blah blah, which the wife doesn't want to hear. then blames the husband for everything wrong with the therapist, especially if he picked the therapist out, or she did and got the new age crap therapists and blah blah blah. Or, a therapist that isn't into gender variant issues and then gives the CDer the bad news. Therapy is great for helping us to understand ourselves, or to couples that intend to work through this while understanding it is a part of the relationship.

[MelanieAnne]

Don't mean to come off harsh, but that's absolutely disgusting.

Don't mean to be harsh, but it's absolutely true!

From my ex mother in law to my father in law at the dinner table when he made a comment, "Shutup XXXX.. Go to your room". He got up and shuffled off to his room.
From my ex wife to her third husband, "My next husband is going to know how to fix cars"!

[NicoleScott]

GMutt, it was good that you pointed out the pitfalls of couples therapy. Asking a partner to see a therapist suggests they have a problem that needs fixing, when the partner thinks you have the problem that needs fixing. Seems to me that even if they are therapists, you might get better cooperation by calling it counselling.
At my ex's insistence, I agreed to go to a husband and wife team, both psychologists. We met with both of them individually and together. It was probably assumed that our objective was to save our marriage, but that was never really said. As it turned out, her goal was to cure my CDing, and mine was to gain her acceptance, but we never voiced that either. Of course, it was doomed to fail, and it did. I would advise discussing and agreeing what your counselling objectives are and to discuss them with your expert.

[TrishaLake]

seems like it is lawyer time to me...I would go see one asap

[Dana44]

Christina, It does seem like you are talking to her and she is responding. Yet not very well and do not purge as that will not work in the long run. Do move them if required. Yeah I had to pull mine from storage. LOL. yet, it has grown from there. But I will say that you are trying and sometimes that does not work. But in the long run if she comes around that would be good. But if she does not. Move your clothes and try to keep the marriage together. Life is hard sometimes and well. just do the best you can do.

[Stephanie47]

Christina, I reread not only your responses on this thread, but, also went back and read some of your previous posts. It appears you are totally mismatched with your wife and your extended family. I read your post where you were at dinner with female relatives who really really indicated intolerance for gays, gay pride marches, transgender women, etc. The a post concerning your eleven year old daughters seemingly intolerance which you indicated she espouses her mother's viewpoints. Then you posted about being en femme at a sociology class and talking before several hundred classmates. You go to social events/supportive groups en femme. You go out en femme.

I cannot help but think your life is a living hell. You have to be torn between conforming to intolerance and being yourself. I cannot imagine how this marriage is going to progress when everyone is so anti who you are. I read continually on this site posts where wives support or at least tolerate their husbands' crossdressing and share his secret. It's really a lousy marriage when a wife is openly critical all the time of her husband.

I checked your age and did some math. You and your wife have been married thirteen years which calculates to you getting married at age forty-four. It would appear both of you were pretty much set in your ways. I really do not see where you and her have grown together. How is this really going to work out in your retirement years?

[ChristinaK]

Hi girls,

I'll give you and update after we see the therapist tomorrow. May be good, may be bad. The therapist is definitely in my court, but she also knows how intransigent my wife is. We'll see....

[Invisible Emily]

Don't mean to be harsh, but it's absolutely true!

From my ex mother in law to my father in law at the dinner table when he made a comment, "Shutup XXXX.. Go to your room". He got up and shuffled off to his room.
From my ex wife to her third husband, "My next husband is going to know how to fix cars"!

Sad so many people are in those type of unhealthy relationships.

[Tina_gm]

I wouldn't expect much from a therapist, not in this instance. I think it is widely over used advice on here. A therapist telling her it is ok, natural etc etc, won't likely do much to change her mind. If anything she may feel like she is being ganged up on, and that can really backfire. Imagine you will or would feel by going to her clergy and them telling you how wrong you are and you need to be a regular man and do the right thing blah blah blah... Of course your wife will likely just then give the I told you so thing.

Without giving up WHO you are, my best advice is to work or rework an agreement, likely some sort of DADT. If she still says no to that, then you need to decide truly what is most important provided you can give it up.

[Aunt Kelly]

Gendermutt,
I disagree. Just because it is common for a SO to dig in her heels and refuse to participate in counseling, or to take the advice offered by counselors who understand gender issues, does not mean that the advice to seek counseling is "over used". It is, almost always, good advice.

[MelanieAnne]

People who issue ultimatums are generally not open to much therapy.

[Becky Blue]

Of course it is really hard to judge from the outside based on a small amount of information, but it sounds to me like your marriage may be in a bit of trouble anyway. The fact that your wife is not prepared to compromise could be an indicator. Perhaps some couples counselling is not a bad idea.

[ChristinaK]

Went to therapy. Lots of tears. I'm an ogre. She doesn't understand and it's all my fault. I'm a freak and she wishes I had illustrated that when we were dating. She doesn't think she can accept me. She made me feel like a really bad person. She doesn't want a divorce, just her husband back. I listened. It hurt me immensely and I have no idea what's to come. More later, I guess.

[Paige Dehart]

You are not an ogre or a freak, nor are you a really bad person. I am truly sorry you were hurt by her words, which she may come to regret.
It is a difficult situation for both of you. For your part you just want to be accepted as you are, which you should be. For her part she does not understand and possibly feels as if not only is her femininity under attack but so is her entire world and her future as she has dreamed it would be.
Some women after long and deep introspection as well as some good information can come to an understanding of themselves and cding. From there an acceptance or tolerance if not full participation may come.
IMHO She has some decisions to make. She cannot possibly have it both ways since non acceptance of who you are but no divorce makes for two unhappy people.
Best wishes to both of you.

[Stephanie47]

Unfortunately, sometimes marriage does not work out. I will stand by my comments at #53. Any man who can get up in front of a sociology class en femme and give a talk in front of hundreds of men and women should not have to endure such hostility in a marriage. Remember your wife's entire family seems to have negative thoughts about any person who is gays, lesbian or transgender. How can you possibly endure attacks on your lifestyle? All your wife wants back is the man she thinks she married. You're not the person she thinks she married. You're you. I believe you mentioned your daughter has been influenced by the negativity of your wife. She eleven years old now. You're fifty-seven. By the time you hit retirement years (65) your daughter will be 18 or 19 years old and either fully entrenched in negativity or has figured out dad is OK even if he wears dresses.

You're really going to have to make a choice. And, don't think just because you may be forced to purge all your feminine clothing, etc things will be forgiven and life will go on without non verbal communication or snide remarks made about people who are just like you on the inside. Your wife will know she has locked your mind up in a cell for the remainder of your days on earth.

[MelanieAnne]

Divorce is always a big step, and kind of scary. But a year or so later, you'll wonder why you waited so long.

[Devi SM]

Sometimes we're afraid of future or changes in our comfort zone that sometimes is not comfort.
I left my country 17 years ago, didn't have a job waiting for me in this country, my English still not being the best but I did it. I left everything after 40 years, I brought just 2 suitcases, wife and 3 kids. Kids made their own life here, here I confess everything about my bisexuality to my wife and of course cding, things are better than I expected, I'm pretty satisfied, more of the time we worry about things that never happens...
So go live your life, it's all that you have, one day kids will leave you and if wife doesn't let you be happy, she's selfish and doesn't deserve to live with a man that have and extra sensitivity for women things...

[ChristinaK]

Hi girls,

Well, so far my wife is ignoring the whole situation. I'm going to move Christina's things to my office. We're seeing the same therapist but to different ends. It's a sticky situation for sure and I have no idea where it will lead us, but I know that I'm very feminine and will push the envelope in that direction.

Sorry I can't be more difinitive, but I have no idea where this is going. I only know that I'm happy as Christina.

[Mollyanne]

Christina, our "need" to crossdress is NOT something that can be turned off with an ultimatum. For the unexplained reason as to why we do it has many an answer or better put an explanation, all of which are just theory. Seeing a therapist is the most effective tool you (and your wife) can use to save the marriage , save your sanity and give her some sense of peace. My spouse and I are seeing a therapist for the same reason(s) that your wife is demanding a sudden and drastic change in you. I have agreed that I will only dress when she is either out of the house or is sleeping. Most of the time our arrangement works but there have been times when she wakes up early and sees me totally dressed with the exception of hair and makeup. Choose a therapist together and go.

Mollyanne

[Kelly DeWinter]

It's great that you both are in counseling. You are both trying and that's a start a good start. kepp talking and don't forget about her feelings as well. Do things for her , show her you care.

And as far a pushing the envelope, put yourself in her place, would you want her to push the envelope with you ?

[Stephanie47]

An additional comment to my post at #62. The next time you're seeing the therapist together bring up the fact your wife and her entire family cast negativity towards sexual minorities. Your wife must be really hating herself for falling in love with "one of them!" Yikes, the horror of it all.