Do we play it too safe?

[vacambridge]

This may have already been discussed but I am new to this forum and I am curious as to the thoughts of others on the subject. For the better part of forty years, I was very, very, very cautious about where I went as Vanessa. I had to feel really, really, really safe and secure and I virtually never went out in broad daylight. Recently due to a new group of supportive friends, I have had several experiences including going out to a movie, several nights out to have dinner together, and a few shopping trips. While I can not say that these experiences were without incident, by and large, we were either easily accepted or totally ignored. Understanding that a tgirl still needs to exercise some caution has our society reached a point where a tgirl can feel relatively safe in most venues?

Or, if a girl has kept herself hidden for fear of hsarassment or ridicule or intimidation, should she stay right where she is?

Is the time right for the trangendered community to become more active in our society and more assertive in regards to our lifestyle.

Vanessa Glenne

[Jennaie]

I think that this depends on where you live. Some cities are known to be tg friendly and in places like this I think a t-girl could be more aggressive. Other cities and "areas of cities" still pose a very real threat as to what might happen if caught in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong aggressors.

I think we all have a responsibility to ourselves to live our lives safely and not take unnecessary risk that could place us in harms way.

[Melinda G]

I went out to do some errands today and get some groceries. I saw two different people, that I was not sure if they were male or female. I didn't stare. no one else did either. One of them was working in the store. I thought to myself, "was that a man or woman"? It's pretty common these days.

[Anna Teri]

I definetely believe in showing yourself to the world. If you hide yourself, you're just wasting away your years.

[GypsyKaren]

Hi Vanessa

I really don't worry to much when I go out, I stick to the same places I go to when I'm in drab. I'm always aware of my surroundings and such, and I've never really had any problems. I've found that the vast majority of people you come into contact with pay absolutely no attention to you, everybody's wrapped up in their own thoughts and problems. When I have to inter-act with someone I'm always very courteous and polite, and I always smile, and so far I get the same in return.

That being said, going out isn't for everybody, and that's cool too, nothing wrong with that. If someone is comfortable staying at home and just doesn't want to venture out, well they shouldn't feel like they have to. Everone has their own comfort level, once you find it maybe it's best not to push it.

As far as asserting rights and such, I like to do my own thing and go about my own business. I've fought more than my fair share of battles over the years, and I'm really not interested in going there again, let the young ones do that.

Karen

[Phoebe Reece]

Vanessa,

I am with you - at least in large metro areas like Atlanta. There are certainly smaller, more backward places where you might not be received as well. CD's in those locations may need to still take some care in their outings. In Atlanta though, there's no reason not to go ahead and be visible in all the normal places any woman would be. And there's no reason to just be a creature of the night. In the past year alone, I've been out dressed in the daytime to shopping malls, movie theaters, museums, the zoo, restaurants & fast food places, the MARTA rapid rail system, grocery stores, all kinds of other small and large stores, and even Home Depot.
Was I read as a crossdresser? - Plenty of times.
Were there any problems from that? - Never.

For those that are not yet comfortable with the idea of going out in public, but haven't totally dismissed the idea - my advice is to join a local support group. Going out with other TG friends the first time out can be a tremendous confidence booster.

[JoannaDees]

I agree, location, location, location.

But even with the best of locations, it is a matter of feeling the scardey cat high and going with it. Most times, nothing happens, and you are left with a feeling of why? The best answer is because we are real, we exist, and the world is changing to allow differences. People are more enlightened, even if they don't know or understand, at least they know enough to not make a scene.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Obviously location plays a part (I live in an urban area, so take the following for what it's worth) but I think attitude plays at least as big a part.

My experience has been that I act like I deserve respect and I usually get it. Frankly, I think we could learn a thing or two from our drag queen sisters about not taking sh*t from everyone and being prepared with a good wisecrack or two.

And if we never venture out, things will never change.

However as Gypsy Karen said going out isn't for everyone. But if you stay home, ideally do so because you want to, not because you're afraid to venture out.

[Mandy Salamander]

agreed, vanessa,,, tho' cincinnati is notoriously conservative, i always dress and act appropriately when out and have had remarkably few problems and am generally well received,,, thinking people mostly just have better things t'do than worry 'bout whether i'm a TG or a GG...

[HaleyPink2000]

It is time for us to have our own Leader in this. Just like the African American's had Martin Luther King. We need a person to lead us out of the closet and into the daylight so to speak.

I go out only with my TriEss group mostly. Have been to places shopping a few times, but not dressed. Only to buy and tryon while there. That’s why I like Wal-Mart so much. Friendly people and don't care that I'm a Man trying on skirts and dresses. Even lane Bryant Stores are nice.

But with this said, I still feel shut-in. Would like to be out to the world. Free from the hate and fears of people. So many times I look a women in stores and wish I could be dressed like them. Chatting about fashion with other women, about how I like this or that fabric. Or sitting at the local Coffee/Tea shop sipping tea with the Ladies on Saturday. Dressed to the nines, just talking about how the weather is, or how the week has been.

Why can’t we have our up rising and someone to lead it?

Haley:)

[VeronicaMoonlit]

It is time for us to have our own Leader in this. Just like the African American's had Martin Luther King. We need a person to lead us out of the closet and into the daylight so to speak.

Why can't we have our up rising and someone to lead it?

Haley:)

Well, Haley, maybe you should be asking Tri-Ess national that question. But it's not likely to happen because......we're all cowards, including me. No one wants to be the first. We've got people who can barely admit to themselves that they're crossdressers, let alone admit it to their wives or the public. We've got plenty of Bad Trannys. We've got CD's who are so scared of shopping regular stores that they're willing to pay a premium to disreputable companies taking advantage of their fear.

So the answer to the question is, if you want a tranny MLK are you willing to be that person? Because it seems no one else is willing to do it.


Veronica

[Kimberley]

It is time for us to have our own Leader in this. Just like the African American's had Martin Luther King. We need a person to lead us out of the closet and into the daylight so to speak.

Haley:)
************
I agree with you Haley, and it is something I have said all along. My feeling is that s/he doesnt even have to be a CD although it would be better, but the person would need a very high public profile and politically connected in order to be effective.

Still, the conservatives do have the reins so it is an uphill battle against the ignorance put out by these groups. It is too bad the religious right has such a huge influence is it not? I think political opinions will sway but religious ones will not.

After seeing Felicity Huffman's comments on her interview with Larry King I think she could do it very well. I got the impression she actually understood what this was about and she certainly empathized with us.

Failing that, how about we nominate Julie York???:cheeky:

Kimberley

[Melanie R]

Is the time right for the trangendered community to become more active in our society and more assertive in regards to our lifestyle.

Vanessa Glenne

Yes, we should be more active in society in being who we are. Being transgendered is a right of birth. We are born this way. It is not a lifestyle except one can choose to remain in the closet and not be active in our society. Many in organized religion see being transgendered as a lifestyle choice that is equated with being gay. Their ignorance breeds non-acceptance and confusion of who we really are. As we are becoming more accepting by society more are being more visable.

Melanie

[Julie Avery]

It is time for us to have our own Leader in this. Just like the African American's had Martin Luther King. We need a person to lead us out of the closet and into the daylight so to speak.

I nominate Julie York but like myself I don't think she goes out! She'd keep the bigots back on their heels though. Hmmm...Julie York....heels....

[Melanie R]

Well, Haley, maybe you should be asking Tri-Ess national that question. But it's not likely to happen because......we're all cowards, including me. No one wants to be the first. We've got people who can barely admit to themselves that they're crossdressers, let alone admit it to their wives or the public. We've got plenty of Bad Trannys. We've got CD's who are so scared of shopping regular stores that they're willing to pay a premium to disreputable companies taking advantage of their fear.

So the answer to the question is, if you want a tranny MLK are you willing to be that person? Because it seems no one else is willing to do it.


Veronica

Over the past 15 years my wife and I have put together 25 transgendered cruises for transgendered persons and their SO's. Our group of 20-50 TG's and SO's on each cruise are a small number among 1500-3000 other passengers but in those years we have educated over 50,000 people most who had never met a transgendered person before. When you are enfemme on a public cruise everyone knows who you are and many want to know more about our wonderful community. On one cruise 50 members of Jerry Falwell's Baptist church became our biggest supporters by the end of the 7 day cruise. Others on thsi froum have been on the cruises and can express their comments.

Melanie

[Paula Jaye]

To be accepted by society is often wished for by t-girls. Society can only come to accept something it is used to coming into contact with. Nobody is going to announce one day "OK Trannies it is safe to go out, off you go." If you want to be able to go out and about and be accpeted as a woman then you have to get out there. My experience is that most people couldn't care less about other folk going about their business. I have been out and about for years and never had any problems. Have I been read? Yes - probably a lot more than I've noticed. The answer is within yourself. You just need to summon your courage and get out there. The first steps are the worst. Use common sense and stick to places which you know would be safe for anyone: men, women, children, little old ladies. Dress in a manner appropriate for a wome of your age. If you can go with a friend then great (if you go with another trannie then remember you increase your chances of being read).

You don't need anyone's permission to get out there, so off you go what are you waiting for.

[Paula Jaye]

And another thing.....

If you want an inspirational figure you could always look to New Zealand and Georgina Beyer the world's first (and only?) transwoman Member of Parliament. Georgina became mayor of a small rural town and then stood for national government in a conservative, rural area and was elected. She was elected because she was good at the job and this was more important to her electorate than her history

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Over the past 15 years my wife and I have put together 25 transgendered cruises for transgendered persons and their SO's.
Melanie

I know about the Dignity Cruises...bigger closets for trannies with fat wallets. Thats essentially what they are. 50000 people is NOTHING in a nation of close to three hundred MILLION people, when you (or Jane Ellen or Lacey Leigh) could go on Oprah, use your real name and reach out to millions.

And don't get me started on Tri-Ess's silence during the Sam Walls and Peter Oiler affairs.


Veronica

[Julie Avery]

On one cruise 50 members of Jerry Falwell's Baptist church became our biggest supporters by the end of the 7 day cruise.

Melanie

That is awesome. When people meet people over a period of time, instead of sitting at home talking about the stereotypes folks have in their minds of people who are different from them, I guess sometimes good things happen. Kudos, Melanie.

[CharleneCD]

Over the past 15 years my wife and I have put together 25 transgendered cruises for transgendered persons and their SO's. Our group of 20-50 TG's and SO's on each cruise are a small number among 1500-3000 other passengers but in those years we have educated over 50,000 people most who had never met a transgendered person before. When you are enfemme on a public cruise everyone knows who you are and many want to know more about our wonderful community. On one cruise 50 members of Jerry Falwell's Baptist church became our biggest supporters by the end of the 7 day cruise. Others on thsi froum have been on the cruises and can express their comments.

Melanie

Melanie followed by Paula Jaye's comment Show what we realy need to do. Go out and show who we really are. As a group our biggest problem is that the only girls the general public see's and knows about are the drag queens. Since drag queens are gay most automaticaly assume the rest of us are and base their judgement on us as homosexuals. Being grouped with the LGBT community is a double edge sword. While they are wonderful people and have given us a good model on how to gain greater acceptance, There are unfortunately too many people who will never accept gays. While they are religious bigots on par with the taliban, they have a huge voice in our country. Showing these people how most of us really are, Normal, average, hardworking, and for the most part Christian, will go a long way towards gaining acceptance. I mean if Melanie can win over some of Falwells followers there is great hope.

So basicly we need to get out and show everybody we are not that different from them. We just like to express our inner gender as opposed to our outer. And as Paula said, Get them used to seeing and dealing with us. I dont know that we need an icon, or that we need to be militant. Just be seen. I know that my little trip out gown shopping showed several people in my community that while I am different I am not a weirdo freak. I showed comfort with who I was and what I was doing, and they treated me in the appropriate manner for the way I was dressed.

[Aileen]

I'm a coward and I never go out because I don't think I could pass, and I'm afraid of getting beaten up. Just Halloween is plenty for me.

[Paula Jaye]

Aileen raises two improtant points in her post.

One is that everyone should do what they feel comfortable with and not be made to feel that they need to push boundaries if they do not wish to do so. But we should all encourage those who wish to take the first steps outside the wardrobe and into the street.

The second point is the issue of "passing": whatever that means. A better term is possibly "passable". By that I mean will you stand out from the crowd. When out and about doing the weekly supermarket shop I just want to get o with the job in hand so I dress as women over 40 generally do during the day (OK I may wear a skirt or dress more often - but it's one suitable for the occassion). I may get second glances but not many. For most people I'm a middle aged woman shopping - a bit masculine maybe which brings me to the point I was trying to make. Look around any town centre or mall and you will see plenty of women who can best be described as "plain". You're pretty sure they are GGs but you wouldn't be surprised if they weren't. This may sound unkind but it's true. Part of the problem some have with passing is that feel that they can only "pass" if they look drop-dead gorgeous. Not many folk look that good but we all get on with our lives. As Frank Zappa wisely said "A message for all you beautiful people out there. Just remember there a whole lot more of us ugly *expletive deleted*!!!"

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

As has been said, if we're gonna wait around for someone to lead us out of the closet, we're gonna be waiting a long time. It's up to us.

Ideally, as Veronica said, it would mean be willing to appear in public using our own names. (For what it's worth, I do know at least one person who's active in LGBT circles who does this and even makes it a point to alternate showing up to meetings both en femme and en homme.) Realistically, not a lot of us -- including myself -- are ready to do this.

But there is a middle ground -- being public even if you're not out. I just went out today, nothing special, a little shopping, a little hanging out. As Paula points out there is an inherent contradiction. If we blend in successfully then no one knows that we're walking among them. OTOH, to be honest I'm dubious that too many of us are going to be mistaken for a GG in up close interaction -- I know I'm not.

So the folks I interacted today saw a man presenting himself as a woman. To be honest, with the PR "Transamerica" has gotten, they probably assumed I was a transsexual. I'm not a big fan of the Lacey Leigh approach of button-holing people, but when there's an opening, I take the opportunity to mention who I am and do a brief bit of education. For example, the sales clerk at the cosmetic counter mentioned it was her third day on the job, so I said that I bet I was probably her first transgendered customer. Which led to a brief discussion about crossdressing.

There's also letter-writing and other things you can do under your nom de femme. For example, I've always made it a point to write a note about the service I receive en femme. And I've sent emails in support or against proposed laws that affect us. I acknowledge that I'm writing under a pseudonym, but I make the point that regardless of what name I use, I still vote.

In short, regardless of your comfort level, there are things you can do.

[Jenny Warren]

Society can only come to accept something it is used to coming into contact with.

This is very true, but it's interesting that society seems more ready to accept negative issues than positive ones.

Things like rap songs with foul language, sex and violence in movies and on television, loud music at all hours and bad manners spring to mind.

Jenny

[sharifemme]

I think you are probably about as safe as a genetic woman in most places. I don't think I would have the courage to go to a biker bar or a teamsters union meeting dressed en femme but I wouldn't feel comfortable there if I were the most macho sissyboy in the world.

Is it time for the transgendered to speak out and be heard? Yes, it is probably the last great movement for equality in this country. If we do not stand up for our rights like the ethnic groups, gays, lesbians, and bisexuals have done, we will always be forced back into our closets. But as Pogo said, "I have met the enemy, and he is US!" We are afraid to speak out in any form, many times for our fears of being ostracized. You can however lend your support to groups like HRC, NYAGRA, etc. VIA the web and E-mail and still be anonymous until you feel comfortable being visible. You can even E-mail your legislators and government officials to let them know what you expect as a taxpayer. All law-abiding citizens deserve the same rights and protections under the law and it is time for us to demand that we be included.

Sharifemme

[Rikkicn]

I was like so many in not going out because I was sure that someone would point a finger at me and yell, at the top of their lungs, "that's a man wearing a dress, how disgusting"
I was sure that would happen in restaurants, malls and even walking down the streets.
Amazingly that has never happened. The follwing has happened though

I've been giggles at by a high school girl in a drive through McDonald's. that hurt and felt real bad.
I've been frowned at by an older woman on a busy shopping street. I kind od like that she had that reaction. she looked mean anyway.
I've been whispered about in a shoe store and a department store and pointed at once.
I've surprised a gas station worker

This is the worse that ever happened to me and I've been going out part time for 7 years and full time for the last two.
I've had nothing like this for the last 2 years.

I still get noticed from time to time but now I like that that happens because I feel like I'm doing a good thing for thr TG community. The more of us that people see the better it is for everyone of us.

Rikki

[sharifemme]

Rikki...

I guess many of us have learned that we have to be who we are and if others don't like it, too bad! There are things I don't like about others, too, but I try to keep it to myself. One thing that really does bother me is when I go to a nice restaurant and there are three or four guys in dirty barn/work clothes, a two day growth of dirty beard and wearing a stinky old baseball cap. But, I just hold my breath and my tongue and do my best to have fun anyway.

Sharifemme

[Melanie R]

And another thing.....

If you want an inspirational figure you could always look to New Zealand and Georgina Beyer the world's first (and only?) transwoman Member of Parliament. Georgina became mayor of a small rural town and then stood for national government in a conservative, rural area and was elected. She was elected because she was good at the job and this was more important to her electorate than her history

Peggy and I enjoyed meeting her as well as many other TG persons and their SO's when we visited Wellington and Auckland in 2001. We are returning next March to Christchurch and Auckland. Here is a picture below of Melanie with Claudia and Janet, the leaders of the NZ TG community.

Melanie

[Paula Jaye]

This is very true, but it's interesting that society seems more ready to accept negative issues than positive ones.

Things like rap songs with foul language, sex and violence in movies and on television, loud music at all hours and bad manners spring to mind.

Jenny

I agree Jenny and this thought occured to me as I typed my original post.

[Sierra Evon]

I would like to take charge in America and lead all CDers to not have to
worry about this dreaded issue , and make all cities CD/TG/TV friendly
watch for my television add's , OH-ya and I'll put a stop to that war
thing/stuff......:thumbsup:

[Rikkicn]

Melanie followed by Paula Jaye's comment Show what we realy need to do. Go out and show who we really are. As a group our biggest problem is that the only girls the general public see's and knows about are the drag queens. Since drag queens are gay most automaticaly assume the rest of us are and base their judgement on us as homosexuals. Being grouped with the LGBT community is a double edge sword. While they are wonderful people and have given us a good model on how to gain greater acceptance, There are unfortunately too many people who will never accept gays. While they are religious bigots on par with the taliban, they have a huge voice in our country. Showing these people how most of us really are, Normal, average, hardworking, and for the most part Christian, will go a long way towards gaining acceptance. I mean if Melanie can win over some of Falwells followers there is great hope.

So basicly we need to get out and show everybody we are not that different from them. We just like to express our inner gender as opposed to our outer. And as Paula said, Get them used to seeing and dealing with us. I dont know that we need an icon, or that we need to be militant. Just be seen. I know that my little trip out gown shopping showed several people in my community that while I am different I am not a weirdo freak. I showed comfort with who I was and what I was doing, and they treated me in the appropriate manner for the way I was dressed.

There is much I'd like to respond to in this post.

"Since drag queens are gay most automaticaly assume the rest of us are and base their judgement on us as homosexuals."

I think we are judged homosexual because we wear women's clothing. Any man, be they straight, gay or drag queen is percived to be homosexual if he is wearing a dress or appears very feminine. That has been the case long before there were drag queens.
Most gay bashing occurs to gay men that are tend to be effeminate. They are bashed because they violated gender norms.

"Showing these people how most of us really are, Normal, average, hardworking, and for the most part Christian, will go a long way towards gaining acceptance."

These people are just as invested in gender norms as they are sexual norms. They will never believe that because some of us are heterosexual, hardworking, average and Christian that they can accept us.
The fact is we are different! We were born with male bodies and like to dress and behave as women. I can't imagaine the Christian right saying "Oh Ok. You're cool, come and meet my daughter. It was wonderful to hear about the Falwell crusie but I don't for a minute think that any of them would want as as family members.

"Being grouped with the LGBT community is a double edge sword"

Who is out there fighting for the our rights? It's by and large organizations within the GLBT community. Do we really want to separate ourselves from this supporting community and go it alone. I would think that together along with every other oppressed minority we would fight for our freedom of self express, right to live safely and without discrimination of any kind. That's how real progress has been made in the past.
I think the GLBT community would be far more welcoming to us that the Christian right.

This also leaves many of us out. What if we're gay and cross dress do we get ostracized even more. What if we're not Christian? What do we do with them? What if they are want to earn their incomes in alternative ways and not pursue the corporate or mainstream occupations?

I suggest that no matter if we're gay, lesbian, transgendered, transexual, bi-sexual or intersexed we're all seen as different, unusual, abnormal and to some queer.
The only way out of this is if we help and support each other and make strong alliances with other all other oppressed populations.

All that being said, I beleive that the more we're out there the more people get used to us. the more they get used to us the less problems we'll have.

I quess that's enough for now. I'm sure to upset some people with what I've already said.

The Dali Lama says the key a better world is more affection in the home
Rikki

[Paula Jaye]

Peggy and I enjoyed meeting her as well as many other TG persons and their SO's when we visited Wellington and Auckland in 2001. We are returning next March to Christchurch and Auckland. Here is a picture below of Melanie with Claudia and Janet, the leaders of the NZ TG community.

Melanie

Glad you enjoyed your visit to NZ. I hope you get the chance to visit Wellington as well when you return next year. I am a recent arrival here but have already met Claudia and Janet who do so much for the TG community here.

[Paula Jaye]

Why are some many people here afraid to be seen as part of a GLBT community. I am not gay or bi but do not see it a great problem if "they" (whoever they might be) think I am. Being gay is not something to be ashamed of nor afraid of. We want tolerance for TG folk but too many show an intolerance of gay folk. I can not understand this contradiction. Being gay or TG does not prevent anyone being "Normal, average, hardworking, and for the most part Christian". With regard to the Christian reference I am devoutly non-religous but kow enough of Christian philosophy to suggest that it would urge love for one's fellow humans.

As Rikki has said the gay community in N America and Europe has fought for the right to be treated as equal to the rest of the population. We should respect them fro this and learn from their experiences. We should also value them as (mostly) sympathetic and accepting of TGs.

[CharleneCD]

Paula I dont think all that many of us are afraid of being part of the LGBT community. At this time they are the group of people most accepting of us, and they are very well organized. They also have the legal funds to make sure that major abuses can be stopped by using the court system. We would be nuts not to accept their inclusion, friendship, and help.

I still think it is a double edge sword, or like being in between a rock and a hard place. As Rikki said the religious right will never want us to meet their daughters, but tolerance is possible if we can been seen as other than gay, otherwise we are going to attract the worst of their bigoted hate. While I could care less for their friendship, because as I said before the religious right is no better than the taliban, it would be better not to attract their ire. While they will never accept us, bieng tolerated by them will allow those with more moderate beliefs to feel more comfortable with us. Basicly what I am saying is the goup with the ability to do us the most harm is at war with the group that already accepts and helps us. ( the funny thing is that the gay community shows better christian values ie. love and tolerance)

Please don't get me wrong I do not advocate going our separate ways, but we need to make sure we have our own identity within the group.

[Paula Jaye]

Charlene

The religous nutters will probably not accept any they perceive as offending against "God's word". Their acceptance or tolerance is very unlikely to be gained so they are not worth worrying about. People of moderate beliefs will, by and large, be comfortable with any in the broad church that is LGBT.

If we accept that the gay and TG communities can be "good friends" it seems odd to distance yourself from a friend just to avoid upsetting someoe who will never even be on speaking terms. Besides, some TG/TV/CD folk are actually gay or bi. Are you suggesting that we dump from our community any genetic male tranny who is attracted to men? What about a transwoman - what sex of partner is she allowed to avoid being jetisoned?

We do have our own identity within the GLBT definition but we must not forget that there is an element of overlap between the four terms: they are not mutually exclusive.

[Denise01]

I have only been going out femme now for a short period of time, but there are a couple of things i find most important.
1), Be confident in who you are, and what you are doing.
2) Carry yourself like it is the most normal thing you do, and that you do it every day.
3) Dress for the occassion. If it is nice and warm in the summer, and skirts are in order, it is ok for you to wear a nice summer skirt suitable to what you are doing. If you are in the Northern Cold climate, where 99% of the girls wear slacks when out at the mall, wear the same so as to blend in. If you are in a fancy skirt or dress and not going to a function you will stand out real quick

Be courteous to the people around you. Never go anywhere a gg would not go. I have found that i feel better in a mall during the day, when there are a reasonable number of shoppers, as most people do not even realize who is around them, outlone, wether the person next to them is TG or not

Act like a lady, and you will be treated like one.

Denise