Is it any wonder ?

[Jamie M]

That the GG's get narked off with us all from time to time ? I've been sat here watching the posts come in over the last month or so with a growing sense of bewilderment. Yes this is a place of saftey for us all. It's a place where we can be who we want to be without fear of rejections but, for me anyway, this has always been a place where I can learn who I am and a place where I could bring my SO to help her find some support and understanding of who I am .

So what have I introduced her to ? A world where we've had threads about imitaing pregnancy, wearing maxi pads in your knickers, wishing to be a bride and lastly a thread about "knowing my place".

Okay, i do understand that the last one was in jest and meant to be tongue in cheek but this was not the only one here so can you see why all these sorts of things upset our GG's colleagues so much ? We claim to be comlpimenting them by imitation but are we really ? We take all the best things about being a woman, make a mockery of them then have a laugh about it afterwards.

It seems most weeks there's someone here extolling the virtues of having GG's posting and shortly afterwards soomeone complaning about how little they do post but is it any wonder ? Even when they do post and try and bring a little reality to our world , they get shot down in flames for being intolerant ! Jeez !

I guess what I'm getting at is that as I get older, I'm beginning to see things more from Kelly's side of the fence. Take the threads that I already mentioned. A year ago I would have asked "So what ? It's just a little bit of fun" but now they really rub me up the wrong way and they make me feel like that, what about how it makes the GG's feel ?

We live in a harsh world where Joe public is out to make a mockery of us and that's why we come here to escape, I understand that. I also understand that our alto ego's live in a world of fantasy and this is a place to explore that fantasy but we also come here for advice, understanding and advancement of our selves. In my very humble opinion GG's make an extremely vital contribution to this task and for as long as we carry on like this without taking their feelings into consideration we risk losing their input . I for one don't want to see the day they abandon us.

Before any of you say, I'm fully aware that I'm speaking on behalf of GG's without really KNOWING what they're thinking. I just know how it makes me feel and I'm trying to put myself in your place. I invite the GG's to correct me if I'm wrong on this. Maybe I'm just being overly sensitive on the subject.

[Wendy-Anne]

Dear Julia,
Interesting train of thought.
Its been a while since I logged on. Found a slightly narky message about not having contibuted to the forum for some time
Truth is, there is a new job with early morning starts. Add that to giving clases and attending classes three nights a week and might weekly night out with my son, well, Wendy-Ann doesn't get much of a look-in.
One off the most touching moments of my life happened. In the throws of passion, my dear sweet wife produced a lace teddy from the lingerie drawer with the comment: It's been a while.............
Sigh.
A big part of my life is acceptance.
Accepting the people around me.
Accepting me
The he.
And the Wendy Anne me.
And accepting those who share the more secret, feminine aspects of who I am.
I can't spend much time in cyberspace. There are just too many good things to do in life and only twenty four hours in the day.
But I accept those with that choose to spend there time here.
Wendy-Anne 24/7 would be almost cyclonic and destructive.
So I find my own balance,as no doubt every person here does,in one way or another.
If there are those who choose to push the boundaries, ask for more or need to feed the soul of the girl within with more and more - I cannot criticise.
I remember a slogan from a place where I once found help and support. "Take what you like and leave the rest". It works.
I am grateful that this place is here.
I am grateful for the privelege of sharing.
take care.
Love
Wendy-Anne

[TGMarla]

I think your examples could drop the bride bit, as that is an example of an extreme feminine experience, where one wraps oneself in the most gorgeous trappings of womanhood for a day...but yes, the threads about pregnancy, maxi-pads, etc. do wear a bit thin, don't they? I'm also just a bit worn thin on threads that ask whether we sit down to pee, or whether panties should be worn under pantyhose. Who cares? I just heave a heavy sigh and remember that as guys, underneath, many of us are pigs. Sorry....truth hurts. I'm sure that many of our GGs here just roll their eyes and move on to the next thread, hoping it won't be more of the same.

[Sage GG]

Dear Julia Smith,
One thing you might remember the thread is like a TV if I don't feel comfortable reading something I just switch threads or forums( we are on three right now). I am grateful to all the help I have found here. The threads have started many discussions and I have learned so much about my husband and we have become much better communicators.

[GypsyKaren]

I know what you mean Julia, you too Marla. I know that I for one really, really value the input from all of the wonderful GG's who share this home with us. And don't you know, they don't have to be here at all, they don't have to devote their time and energy to trying to understand us, they do it because they want to, out of the kindness of their hearts.

To all of you GG's reading this; thank you so very much for being here with us. Thank you for all of your help and efforts, and especially for your honesty and kindness. You help in ways that you'll never know, and your prescence here is one of the treasures of this forum. You will always have my gratitude and appreciation, you're all a bunch of real sweethearts, and that's enough mush for now.

Karen

[Sharon]

I think anyone who visits this forum should realize that there is a huge spectrum of members here, literally thousands of people from all parts of society, spread around the globe. The only thing we all have in common is an interest in crossdressing.

I find some threads over the top, or even weird, but I realize that not everyone is going to have the same interests as I do. When I arrived on the site a year-and-a-half ago, I thought I knew everything, or, at least, was aware of everything that there was to know about crossdressing and transgenderism, but I am, instead, constantly learning new things here, some of which I wish I hadn't learned. :eek:

As long as we can communicate as adults and keep things clean, I don't mind anything that's posted, although I often roll my eyes at some of the stuff. :)

[Cathy Anderson]

Hi Julia,

I'm glad you expressed your concerns.

Personally, I like the more-or-less lassez faire approach of the forum administrators. I think they strike a good balance between allowing some of this stuff but not letting it get out of hand.

This is a heterogeneous group of people, with different interests and backgrounds and who are at different levels. If someone starts a thread on maxi-pads I just ignore it. I don't get mad. I don't judge the other person. But I don't read it. And GG's can do the same.

I think it' important for CDs to have a place where they can talk about some of these things. These are the fantasies people have. While some fantasies may seem absurd, if one looks deeper to what *motivates* the fantasies one may find they relate to fairly important issues. They probably symoblize something, and talking about them is one way to help understand them. As long as they're not too bad, it's better to make them conscious, where they can be talked about and understood. The alternative is to repress them collectively.

Concerning GGs: The way I understand it, GGs are welcome, but that's assuming they can handle (and want to put up with!) some of the nonsense. But mainly this is a place to help CDs themselves--and that requires a degree of honesty.

If GGs think there isn't a "dark side" to CDing, it's probably better they are disabused of that notion.

Just my .02

Cathy

[Deborah]

I wouldn't say it's a mockery on what i said about being a bride.
I'm one of the few here who wishes they were born a GG. Being one isn't imitating. :D

[Jenny Beth]

My wife often sits with me and we go through this site together. When we first found it two years ago there was very little if any in the way of moderating and there were some very disturbing topics posted and a few avatars and profile pics that were nothing less than pornographic. We learned very quickly to be careful what we opened and continue that to this day. As has been said this lifestyle covers a wide range of interests and even though some of them have my wife shaking her head she has never said a derogatory word about them. Her philosophy has always been "to each their own" but I have to agree that when GG's come here looking for answers they could easily be turned off the whole idea. Still though I do think we have a very clean site compared to others out there and it's just a matter of ignoring what isn't of interest. Having said that I would think that any GG who is totally against any of this would do better finding a GG only forum to discuss her concerns. Just my usual two cents worth!

[Cheery GG]

Hmmmm, where to start.........

Firstly i want to address Julia, you have just gone up in my estimatations a million fold, kelly should be very proud of you, and you of her too. What you said struck a cord with me, your thread is like a breathe of fresh air.

In reply to Gyspy karen, who stated us GG's dont HAVE to be here......its our choice...well, actually yes i do have to be here, for my own sanity and understanding of Lisa, yes i absolutely do have to be here !!!!!

I am speaking on behalf of myself and i think many other GG's when i say that i look at most of the threads in the MTF section, and to be honest if the title offends me, i dont read them.....i dont read many of them because of this reason. I feel that imitating pregnancy and feeling like a woman becuase of it is appauling, would you feel more like a woman with a menstrual cycle and chronic stomach cramps month in, month out ??? but i tend not to give my view on this....i tend to think each to theire own, who am i to judge !

I know many GG';s feel slandered in this section, as i do, most of us keep our mouths shut nowadays or at least post with much caution.

Im not having a go at anyone here, i guess were all different and are here for different reasons, but please be as considerate of us, as we try to be of you....!

cheery
x

[krista65]

Quick question...what the heck does "narky"mean?..LOL

[Cheery GG]

LOL...narky means...urm.....a bit angry, like a bit cross or mad...

cheery
xx

[krista65]

I think we need to "lighten up Franceses"..lol

Tahnks Cheery...i learn something new everyday!..is it ok to use that word in the US without getting into trouble?..LOL

[Cheery GG]

No idea honey...try it out and let us know....

cheery
xx

[Jennaie]

I believe it's probably a term that is used in the UK meaning "disturbed", "pissed", or otherwise dissenchanted.

[krista65]

Cheery, we should all be so lucky as to have an SO like you..xxx..Krista

[Julie York]

Good thread Julia and a subject that comes up now and then. As Sharon said, the common theme is that we wear women's clothing. This covers a wide range of interests and who is to say what is 'right' or wrong within our own collective. At one time there was a heavy leaning towards Transexuals, with a snobbery towards people who did it for thrills. Then there was a zealous management of "offensive" material so as to not upset visiting GGs who wanted to understand their boyfriends/husbands, but would be shocked or upset by any sexual connotations. And yet sex is a big part of crossdressing.

The thing is...it is a very broad subject and many CDs approach it from very different angles so what do you reject and who do you ignore? They may all be valid and in need of advice or discussion. I think the Mods have it pretty much as right as it can be given the complexities and the number of diverse views.

A quick note on GGs that I think needs saying....The views of a real woman on dressing and how they see it is valuable because it gives us some sort of insight in how we are perceived. However, just BECAUSE someone is a GG does not mean they are right by default, or have any more rights to criticise or express a view than anyone else. If anyone expresses a view that people agree with then the replies show that. If anyone expresses a view that people don't agree with then that shows too. So if a GG expresses a view that people don't agree with....it is not some sort of vendetta or lack of generosity if someone dares to actually contradict them.

[Cheery GG]

Cheery, we should all be so lucky as to have an SO like you..xxx..Krista


Lisa is a very very lucky lady...i tell her all the time....lol xx:D

[krista65]

I am new but I agree there are all soerts of types of crossdressers..and there is not one the same but one of the things that attracts me to this forum is that we can discuss a lot of issues in a safe place. I think it is wonderful that GGs can come here and learn things they are curious about so that in thier relationship with the one they love; they can be a better understanding partner. Lord knows I wished I could have showed this to a few girlfriends when I was a lot younger and there was no such thing as the internet or support groups for crossdressing. But I also agree that some of the comments are pretty unclassy and for a new GG completely unknowing of this lifestyle..and she is here for understanding and she hears remarks about feminine hygiene products..it would scare the hell out of me too if I were inthier shoes..so in other words this is a kind and classy place and I hope it stays that way!..hugs to all!..Krista (my0.02 )

[christine55]

The gg's who tolerate us improve this forum greatly. I am always interested to see a real girls thoughts to the issues which we have. The real girls feminize the forum as well. (duh) Without their input this forum would not be half what it is.
Hugs, Christine

[Lisa Scott]

Oh Boy...where to begin indeed...!!!

I guess this another one of those threads that is going to upset a few of the members...And while I agree "Each to their own", I cant help feeling its a little like smoking in a restuarant half-full of non smokers.... The Non smokers can choose not to smoke, but it will nevertheless be there right in their faces, so do they really have the option to avoid it.

I agree that there are alot of individuals in here who are driven in many different ways, and that we all have a right to be here in whatever capacity, which I have absolutely no problem with... but to so blatently fluant it in the faces of people with less perverse aspirations is something that I find difficult to agree with.

I constantly fail to understand how wearing maxipads or pregnancy simulators, stockings, high heels and skimpy underwear amongst other things (generally any attire that could be purchased from *****'s R Us) can make you feel like a woman.....and I totally see how this may offend our female SO's here trying to learn about and understand us.

If you are one of those that gets enjoyment from the above then great for you,... but I dont, and I would prefer not to hear about it. I totaly agree that you can choose not to read the thread if the title offends you, but why post those threads here, there are more than enough forums and chat rooms out there that cater for this and where your thoughts would be better suited.

Maybe its about time the members posting such topics should consider other members a little more before posting material others could find offensive, especially the GG's. Afterall, its the interaction with them, and their input that makes this forum different.

As for the GG's, I really appreciate their input on this site, and it has helped both myself and Cheery understand ourselves and each other. Isnt this the Primary objective of this forums existence....Mutual gain through understanding and open discussion...?

Just my two cents worth...not had a rant for a while...
Lisa x

[Lisa Scott]

Lisa is a very very lucky lady...i tell her all the time....lol xx:D

Thanks Krista,
I am very very very lucky...and I am told this alot......lol

I'm almost as Lucky as Cheery.... :p

[JoAnnDallas]

The one thing that I love about this site and the sister site "Crossdresser Club" is the mods don't let threads degrate into a nasty bitchfest. I have seen a couple of threads that were not in the spirt that this site hold dear and were cut off. Also the very helpful advice that one gets about her profile, pictures, avatar, and etc. This is one of the cleanest sites I have ever been on that covers so much that is crossdressing.
I know at times we tend to get a little testy with each other, but a mild heated debate is good. It makes us think and hopefully stimulate us to see the other person's side and ideals. There are topics that I might feel are not in the spirt of the site, but as long as the mods think they are OK, so be it. If you don't like the thread, then don't read if anymore. I always read any post that comes from a GG. These are the role models that we emulate. They are the experts and such should be listen to even if we might disagree. The other thing I love about this site is the age range that post here. I have seen posts from 17/18 year old all the way upto a post from a 70+ T-Girl. It is very enteresting to see the diverse ideas on a subject comparing how a older T-Girl may look at a subject compared to a younger modern T-Girl's Opinion on the same subject. Sometimes what we want to say is not always clear at first, but as the thread runs out, it usually becomes clear. Those of us that post our adventures are giving us a way to see thru thier eyes the wide wide world out there. One of the reasons I finially took the plung and started going out in daylight was that 99% of the adventures that were posted were positive and the T-Girl didn't have much of a problem. This showed to me that it is not the scary awful world that I had in my head. LOL
All I can hope for is the GG's will tolerate those of us that may offend an ideal or two, cause this is their world that we are attempting to live in and emulate.

[Anita Mae GG]

I agree to each his own but if something seriously offensive then if doesn't belong here. There are other sites that are more "raunchy" and that I don't care for (like URNotAlone) I personally hate that site cuz every time Danielle opens that site there is a crossdresser doing obscene things with a mannequin. so I AVOID it. I guess there will always be threads that people don't like. All I can say is try and be respectful of everyone not just GG's.

I am also one who hates hearing about maxi pads and pregnancy stuff on here. That is just absurd talk. PERIOD.....or maybe Cheery, Tamara, Kathy and I and the other GG's should just talk about how it "feels" to be kicked in the nuts...I wonder if they talk about that in the FtM section....hmmmmmm or stuff things in our pants and see what is "feels" like to have male anatomy...you would think that is dumb.....and it is!

Ok done ranting...had a stressful week and this just topped it off.

Thanks Julia for a great thread.

FOR THE RECORD......as someone in a prior post stated something in regard to this. I DO NOT EXPECT SPECIAL TREATMENT BECAUSE I AM A GG!!!

ok I'm done :)

[kathy gg]

Julia you have alot of empathy and for that, thanks for speaking your mind on a subject that will possibly cause some anger from your 'sisters'.

All I can say is this.

I don't come here so much to get support, but to offer it.

I come here to make freinds, some of whom I have been able to get to know in real time and have real phone coversations with and now consider part of my circle of friends. I dont' come here for "traditional" support in the way many gg's come here for. There is no topic that I have not already been exposed to or heard about. Nothing 'shocks' me as they say. I have been around too long and seen too much.

But topics do come up which I find disturbing or upsetting. And I have a good memory. If a person is going to brag about extramaritial affairs in 20 posts and then want to seek support and help with SO issues, I have to be honest I dont' feel any need to be part of the "help-wagon" to that peson. I suppose this is why I am not getting paid to be a professional counselor. Here I can pick and choose who I decide to offer help, support, and friendship to.

And I really get sad when I see some things which I am sure a "novice" gg or cd to the scene might freak out over. I often think that the newbies to the scene might retreat back into their holes after reading some of the more outrageous posts.

But I am certain that those who feel compelled to share more of the "seedier" sides of the trans/crossdressing world will not retreat from posting about 'touchy' subjects.

I am just glad I don't have to look at avatars of crotch shots!

[Deborah_UK]

A quick note on GGs that I think needs saying....The views of a real woman on dressing and how they see it is valuable because it gives us some sort of insight in how we are perceived. However, just BECAUSE someone is a GG does not mean they are right by default, or have any more rights to criticise or express a view than anyone else. If anyone expresses a view that people agree with then the replies show that. If anyone expresses a view that people don't agree with then that shows too. So if a GG expresses a view that people don't agree with....it is not some sort of vendetta or lack of generosity if someone dares to actually contradict them.

Great post JY.

Most of the posts that I see you write are humourous and mickey taking, so when you do post a serious thought it has so much more impact.

I really can't add any more than those thoughts - just wish I'd posted them first!! lol!

There are so many diverse types on here, and except for the trolls, so much to listen to.

I too was upset by the "pregnancy" thread, but where else could that be expressed.

I came out to a GG a few years ago and prior to my coming out to her she had expressed genuine feelings towards me, the person she had got to know, so I felt I could trust her, the abuse I received was heartbreaking - fortunately she did not know anyone in my circle to out me - and if it happened now I wouldn't really care. (oops gone a bit off topic)

This site is a haven to those on the transgendered spectrum, yes there are things we won't like, but as long as those feelings can be expressed without name calling, the I feel the site gets stronger because of the diversity not in spite of it.

[Ms. Donna]

I guess what I'm getting at is that as I get older, I'm beginning to see things more from Kelly's side of the fence. Take the threads that I already mentioned. A year ago I would have asked "So what ? It's just a little bit of fun" but now they really rub me up the wrong way and they make me feel like that, what about how it makes the GG's feel ?

Hi Julia,

I just read your blog entry. No one is going to flame you for your observations - at least no one who matters.

Getting older? No. Gaining insight? Yes.

There comes a point (for many at least) where all of this starts to take on a more 'serious' role in our lives. Not that we can't have fun with it, but we move past the need to announce that we've "just bought new knickers." We no longer feel the need to share all the 'quirks' we incorporate into this other part of our lives. In short, it all becomes a big 'so what' in the grand scheme of things. Like I said, many of us will reach this point - I suspect that you've joined the club.

The rest... Well, keep in mind that they're still working things out. If you have never had the opportunity to share this part of yourself and suddenly are able to do so, it can be hard contain that lifetime of not sharing. And while the knicker posts can get a bit old, it's something new and liberating for the person posting. I remember about ten years ago posting about my reacent 'purchases' - at the time, sharing that droll fact was important to me.

I agree that some of the more 'fringe' topics do not necessarily paint us in the most attractive of colours and to a 'newbie', it could border on frightening. What I try to keep in mind is that our reasons - and our outlets - for our feelings are all very different. Unless someone is advocating something harmful to themsevles or to others, it really isn't my place to judge the appropriateness of their actions. It's right for them - doesn't mean it right for me or anyone else. But maybe there's that one person reading who feels the same and finally can say "I'm not the only one like this." They came here for support and acceptance - and they found it. Isn't that point?

I can understand how the GGs here might read some of the stuff and wonder just what the hell they've gotten themselves into. Not unlike the rest of the known world, we are a diverse lot as evidenced by the variety of thread topics. QED. I think the best advice I have is to not take anything posted personally. I don't think that anyone here is starting threads with the intent to piss people off. If you take it all too personally, you'll wind up hurt and mad.

There will always be topics - and people - which will rub you the wrong way. Worst case, skip them. Or maybe, just read them and try to see from where that person is coming. You don't have to agree with them, but if you can try and understand their position, you'll have that much better a view into how diverse this all is.

There is a related thread (http://crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25074) running in the Lounge and I posted the following this morning:


I have been on Usenet for a long time and watched the crossdressing newsgroups go through the same cycles. The difference here is that there is some control to the forums so the chance of things getting out of hand like on Usenet are less likely. It's a delicate balance: enough moderation to keep the place friendly and helpful, but not so much that it stifles the spirit of the free exchange of ideas. So far, this is about the best online forum of which I've had the pleasure to be a member.

My opinion is we're cycling - and to the untrained eye possibly looking a bit naff at the moment - but not a good reason to give up on ourselves.

And if we give up on ourselves, who will we have left?

Love & Stuff,
Donna

[Julie Avery]

If you have never had the opportunity to share this part of yourself and suddenly are able to do so, it can be hard contain that lifetime of not sharing.

Great point, both about newcomers to a forum like this, and also about mtf crossdressers going a bit overboard after coming out to their partner and receiving a degree of acceptance.

[Butterfly Bill]

In the US a "nark" is a narcotics agent, and to nark on someone is to tell the police that he uses drugs. It can also mean to rat on someone for something more general. When I first saw "narky", I thought it had something to do with that.

[Julie Avery]

In the US a "nark" is a narcotics agent, and to nark on someone is to tell the police that he uses drugs. It can also mean to rat on someone for something more general. When I first saw "narky", I thought it had something to do with that.

I was gonna say that, but couldn't find a way to make "Your crossdressing makes me feel like becoming an undercover narcotics agent" seem funny. Where are Jay Leno's joke writers when you need them? ;)

[linnea]

I am sometimes amazed at the questions and the answers, but I am extraordinarily grateful to have a place where posting our questions, concerns, and ideas is virtually unlimited. Such a free exchange, especially for us on subjects particularly dear or desperate to CDs, is rare and the willingness of members to read and respond to them (sometimes responding by silence--that's a response too) is admirable and extremely valuable to me.
I appreciate that Julia raised the issue. We should, as a part of our open and free exchange, include questions about the propriety of behavior and comments.
I find exchanges thoughtful and thought-provoking, insightful and informative, surprising and enlivening, silly and naive, enriching and supportive, implausible and laughable, poignant and beautiful--a lot like life in general.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

As mentioned, we t*folk are a diverse group so SOs do get to see the range of the good, bad, yes sometimes ugly, behavior on our collective part.

Personally, I find some the posts here amusingly weird, some sadly weird, and some simply just plain weird. I think it would be useful for folks to sometimes take a step back and look at the persona they're presenting here. But as mentioned, one nice thing about the forum format (vs. a mailing list) is you can pick and choose what you what you want to read.

What I think gets forgotten is that while CDs/TGs/TSs are coming here for support, so are SOs. Like us, they generally didn't choose to be here and dealing with t* issues. Unlike us, they're often trying to come to speed in a few months or years with things that we've spent a lifetime dealing with. So I think it's worth bearing that in mind.

I don't we should hide things about t* stuff that might be disturbing, but I do think we should treat SOs (and everyone else) with respect. That doesn't SOs are inherently right or have more right to criticize than others, but to me it does mean we should give them the benefit of the doubt. The very fact that they're here means they're trying to come to terms with their husband's/boyfriend's t*ness -- the unaccepting ones never make here.

So I've personally been a bit appalled at times at the treatment GGs have gotten -- and sadly I can understand why some have said they feel they need to speak cautiously. Yes, they may be saying something that you don't want to hear. But if you're wise, you'll listen. It doesn't mean you'll end up agreeing with them, but you'll at least hear them out.

And I'm particularly annoyed by some of the hypocrisy I've seen from some members who insist that they be accepted as a guy in a dress, but who then turn around and talk about the ways women "should" dress/act. Sheesh....

Anyway, I've been part of online communities for years. And Ms. Donna points out they all tend to have their ups and downs.

[Cathy Anderson]

First, thanks to the GGs for participating in this discussion!

I'm a little surprised that the GGs here seem taken aback by the "pregnancy fantasy."

This is not a fantasy I really have. But I can see why some CDs do. For a man, that a woman can bring a new life into the world almost epitomizes femaleness--as well as everything lacking or diminished in the male personality.

Remember, we're not talking reality, here. Nobody fantasizes about morning sickeness or hot summer days. But I would think there's some genuine fascination and appreciation with things like the bliss of motherhood or the inexpressible love of a "madonna."

Doesn't a pregnant woman experience some of these emotions--ever? From appearances, it certainly seems this way. Since a common goal of CDs is to relax, it makes sense to me that they should find such feelings especially attractive.

Again, one might argue that it is precisely these "shadow" topics that are in most need of dicussion. If GGs and CDs could talk honestly about these things, it might do a lot of good! The alternative is to keep these things secret. If that happens, then I fear it breeds hidden jealousy and resentment of men towards women.

Just my .02

Cathy

[GypsyKaren]

I'd like to say one thing about this pregnancy "fantasy", and then personally I'd like to see it put to rest, but do what you want.

I have very strong thoughts about this issue because I had to deliver one of my kids, my dear, sweet, Daniel Patrick. It wasn't pretty, it wasn't anything like you see on TV, everything went wrong that could go wrong, and he left us after 16 days. So to me, this just isn't something you pretend or dream about, it's real life, not a dress up game. Each gender has it's own part to play in the miracle of life, so I think it's just best to leave it at that. This is just my own personal opinion, I'm not knocking or deriding anyone who does otherwise.

Karen

[Jamie M]

Thanks to everyone responding so far, I wasn't expecting such a heavy response, so lets try and respond to those which struck a cord with me. Of course I understand that this forum contains an extremely wide cross secion of our community with girls from all stages of their development and feel the forum is all the better for it .As Kathy aNd Ms Donna said, I have grown wiser and I now feel more empathy than ever before and it was for this reason that I felt something needed to be said, for my own sanity perhaps.

First off, of course I'm an adult and know that I can just choose to ignore any particular thread that I might find dis-tasteful. Of course we can all do that, we live in a land of free speach ( well most of us do anyway ).

Secondly, it's important to understand that I was trying to help you all make that leap of imagination by not focusing on any particular thread but to see certain aspects of the examples I mentioned in each and every one of us. Also to see that the majority of the GG's that post here are the enlightened ones. The one's that are most likely to try and understand us and that if we are narking them off what does that say of our GG's at home and of joe public in general.

Time and time again I see people here going on about how they feel like a woman. Do you really ? Or do you just feel like what you think a woman is feeling like ? There is a difference I'm sure. What can make this so infuriating for the GG's is that in showing them what we think a woman feels like , we are in fact showing them what we think of women and let me tell you not all of it is complimentry, not by a long shot. Now make another leap of imagination. If the GG's here are the accepting ones and your SO less you, can you see what effect this might have on her ?

Am I saintly ? Have I always been the vision of understanding ? Not on your nelly ! I've been there, done that and worse I'm sure but now I can see the error of my ways mainly by viewing them from the outside and if I can spare but one of you not so far along as I from making them same mistakes I did and magically transporting you to the point and which kelly and I are at now them all the slings and arrows I may recieve for this will be worth it .

One final thought. I'm all for people talking openly and freely about themselves and I would be dissappointed in the admin if they put censorship on anybody's thoughts and feelings, which thankfully they don't ( more credit to them ),but can you see that with these things you also have a degree of responsibilty to censor yourself ? If we all went off and said what we liked when we liked the whole thing would fall down , that's why we have conscience it's called respect for others feeelings.

[Billie Jean]

The nerve of some people saying things that erk me. Seriously though, freedom to say what we feel or need to get off our minds is what makes this site great. It not only opens up debate, but gives others the knowledge that they are not alone with some of their thoughts. As to the pregnancy threads, the ones who wrote this want to be as excepted as the ones who write about going to the mall dressed to shop. Someone compared this site to television. My Grandmother, whom was a great feminist without even knowing it, once told an Amish man who wouldn't help her load a TV because it was sinful that the reason they put knobs on it was that if you didn't want to see a program you could change it, watch the next channel or turn it off. lol Billie Jean

[Maria D]

Time and time again I see people here going on about how they feel like a woman. Do you really ? Or do you just feel like what you think a woman is feeling like ? There is a difference I'm sure

Interesting question. I wonder that myself, but we'll never know, will we? It does, of course, pre-suppose that women all feel the same, and we'll never know that either, will we?

Personally, I feel that society, though very diverse, classifies things as right and wrong to do, and is not very tolerant of things 'it' says are wrong. Crossdressing is merely one of the long list.
There are those that beg to differ, and just want to be themselves, as long as they don't hurt anyone. They just want their place in society.
This community is a micro-society, and has the same issues on a smaller scale. Posts about sanitary towels or whatever don't interest me, but like crossdressing to 'normal' society, isn't tolerance better?

I DO see your point, but take that point and run with it, and it's an easy leap to my fiancee's parent's attitude to me: intolerance because it's not what they want.

So, for me to ask anyone for tolerance of my TSness™ I must first extend that desired tolerance to everyone else.
That is, of course, just my view. If you disagree, I will kill you.
No, wait, tolerance.
I won't kill you. :)

[Lissa Stevens]

First of all I would like to say I appreciate all the GGs who come here and post. The ones who are accepting are REALLY wonderful. I only wish mine could be one. As for the pregnancy part I am thinking that these are TS's who wish to be a GG and experience the shebang. I am still trying to figure myself out and there have been times when I wished I could experience everything that a GG does. Including the monthly cramps and nine months of carrying a baby. I don't know for sure if I am correct when I say that this is the case with these other posters but it could be why they say what they do.
I will admit that some of the topics and posts can be silly and downright stupid, but what can you do? On behalf of us non GGs I would like to apologize to the GGs. You are great, and the moderators are great also.

[Patsy Stone GG]

Congratulations Julia Smith, you have gone so far up in my estimation that even I am amazed. You understand what empathy is, well done, stand up, curtsey and take the applause - you deserve it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuliaSmith
Time and time again I see people here going on about how they feel like a woman. Do you really ? Or do you just feel like what you think a woman is feeling like ? There is a difference I'm sure

That's right Julia, there is a difference - sometimes it's a huge difference (like the "I want to be pregnant as this is the epitomy of femininity" kind of thread) and, sometimes it's not so huge.

Quote:
Originally posted by Maria D in response to the post by JuliaSmith
Interesting question. I wonder that myself, but we'll never know, will we? It does, of course, pre-suppose that women all feel the same, and we'll never know that either, will we?

Maria, so you will never know will you?? So you don't ever read anything that is written here by any of the GG's? So you never listen to anything that is said by any GG? Do we all feel the same?? You'll never know that?? Are you crazy?? Do all males feel the same, do you feel the same as George W Bush, or Tony Blair, or your father or the guy down the street??? I don't think so, so why make the comment that you think that women all feel the same?? Are we all clones?? Again, are you crazy??

As for the various comments about the newbie GG's being put off the CD world by some of the threads posted in the MtF forum, I must correct you. My first experience of the CD/TS/TG world was in 1996 and sometimes you manage to be so insensitive/stupid about topics that it amazes me, and then you wonder why people get upset. I know, I know, I dont' (and the other GG's) have to read these threads - I think you'll find most of us don't read the "what kind of underwear is your favorite?" and "guess what I'm wearing" threads, but sometimes there are threads which are like car wrecks - we know it's going to be bad, but we just can't help looking. You want our input, and when you get it on topics like the pregnancy thread, suddenly GG's (and some CD's) become "unsupportive" because our opinions are voiced.
You want to be accepted for who you are?? Guess what, we all do. You want understanding and support for the "real you"?? Guess what, we all do. You want to write threads on any topic you choose and not get flamed on for having a different opinion?? Guess what.....we all do. Will it happen?? That's entirely up to you.

[ChristineRenee]

Nice post Patsy...well thought out and expressed.;)

[Khriss]

... I'm reminded of an old saying... "I may not be much... but I'm all I think about "
..not that there are'nt seriouse concernes here...surely there are !
but taking yerself too seriously seems a fatal flaw to me...
..hurt feelings , things taken the wrong way, or plain assinine responces ...are (frommyexperience) ..a part of "the deal" !????
while participating in "community".... I feel obligated to ...what? exactly???... short of bannished for offending a moderators ethical criteria?
( I do understand internet site demands ie: nudity-etc. )what gives? - "COMMON SENSE?" :eek: :straightface: - notsocommoneh?

careing , shareing = good things
bytheway?thisisacrossdresserswebsite?

[Dana]

Congratulations Julia Smith, you have gone so far up in my estimation that even I am amazed. You understand what empathy is, well done, stand up, curtsey and take the applause - you deserve it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuliaSmith
Time and time again I see people here going on about how they feel like a woman. Do you really ? Or do you just feel like what you think a woman is feeling like ? There is a difference I'm sure

That's right Julia, there is a difference - sometimes it's a huge difference (like the "I want to be pregnant as this is the epitomy of femininity" kind of thread) and, sometimes it's not so huge.

Quote:
Originally posted by Maria D in response to the post by JuliaSmith
Interesting question. I wonder that myself, but we'll never know, will we? It does, of course, pre-suppose that women all feel the same, and we'll never know that either, will we?

Maria, so you will never know will you?? So you don't ever read anything that is written here by any of the GG's? So you never listen to anything that is said by any GG? Do we all feel the same?? You'll never know that?? Are you crazy?? Do all males feel the same, do you feel the same as George W Bush, or Tony Blair, or your father or the guy down the street??? I don't think so, so why make the comment that you think that women all feel the same?? Are we all clones?? Again, are you crazy??

As for the various comments about the newbie GG's being put off the CD world by some of the threads posted in the MtF forum, I must correct you. My first experience of the CD/TS/TG world was in 1996 and sometimes you manage to be so insensitive/stupid about topics that it amazes me, and then you wonder why people get upset. I know, I know, I dont' (and the other GG's) have to read these threads - I think you'll find most of us don't read the "what kind of underwear is your favorite?" and "guess what I'm wearing" threads, but sometimes there are threads which are like car wrecks - we know it's going to be bad, but we just can't help looking. You want our input, and when you get it on topics like the pregnancy thread, suddenly GG's (and some CD's) become "unsupportive" because our opinions are voiced.
You want to be accepted for who you are?? Guess what, we all do. You want understanding and support for the "real you"?? Guess what, we all do. You want to write threads on any topic you choose and not get flamed on for having a different opinion?? Guess what.....we all do. Will it happen?? That's entirely up to you.


Bottom line? Let common sense prevail! When it comes to body functions ~ its just not in good taste to discuss in front of company ~ its called manners and good taste! Just that plain! Just that simple!

Maxi pads and tampons that's a little bit over the top and more information that I care for someone to share with me. Just is! I've a grown daughter, ~ and I don't want to discuss such things with her. And, I don't want to discuss her sex life either. She's married to a a fine gent, ~ and her sex life is her business! That's her business ~ handle your business ~ don't make it mine! Because its none of my business! And, I for one, am not going to let you make it my business!

The truth of the matter is that as biologically males ~ you can approach the event horizion of femininity ~ but you can NEVER completely cross it! You can't! Its not phyiscally possible! Its just not! You can have SRS, but you're NEVER ever going to be able to experience the completness, the totalitly of being a GG!

You can dress the part, you can walk the walk, you can talk the talk, ~ or at least a damn close approximation to it ~ but the fact is ~ you're never going to suffer through monthly menstrual cramps month after month after month! You'te never going to get pregnant! You're never going to lie in a a bed in a bedroom alone and grieve the lost of a miscarriage? Most men, most CD's, even most TS are never going to experience the fear of breast cancer!

[Maria D]

You can have SRS, but you're NEVER ever going to be able to experience the completness, the totalitly of being a GG!

You can dress the part, you can walk the walk, you can talk the talk, ~ or at least a damn close approximation to it ~ but the fact is ~ you're never going to suffer through monthly menstrual cramps month after month after month! You'te never going to get pregnant! You're never going to lie in a a bed in a bedroom alone and grieve the lost of a miscarriage? Most men, most CD's, even most TS are never going to experience the fear of breast cancer!

Actually TS people have to have mammograms because the risk, though less, is just as real.
As regards the rest of the quote, that's all true. But then, that all applies to some of my female friends. One born without a womb, one with other issues who has to catherise a hole in her side in order to pass urine, there are others, but, answer me one thing. Do they experience the totality of being GG? Please define that for me.

[Maria D]

Quote:
Originally posted by Maria D in response to the post by JuliaSmith
Interesting question. I wonder that myself, but we'll never know, will we? It does, of course, pre-suppose that women all feel the same, and we'll never know that either, will we?

Maria, so you will never know will you?? So you don't ever read anything that is written here by any of the GG's? So you never listen to anything that is said by any GG? Do we all feel the same?? You'll never know that?? Are you crazy?? Do all males feel the same, do you feel the same as George W Bush, or Tony Blair, or your father or the guy down the street??? I don't think so, so why make the comment that you think that women all feel the same?? Are we all clones?? Again, are you crazy??

No Patsy, I'll never know, because I don't know what other people feel, do I? If a GG tells me I'll never know what it's like to 'feel' like a woman, is that true? How do I know? I feel like me, that's all I know. You seem to imply that we all think differently. Ok, I'll run with that. Prove it to me. Until then, I don't know.
So, why make the comment that I've made a comment that I think that all women feel the same? I never said that, I never thought that, I merely pointed out that people thinking they think like women would pre-suppose the assumption that women think the same.

Am I crazy? In all probability, yes. Being TS does that to you. But your questioning of my sanity was based on mis-reading my post. Of course, that assumes I know what you're thinking...