Dressing in public: Reactions from men vs women?

[fashionisto]

I've been dressing in public quite a few times. Most of the times this is as a guy with female elements, sometimes fully female (using makeup, trying to cover my beard shadow, but not passing). I understand that some of you are trying to pass and blend in, while I like to provoke and stand out, although I do wish it were more acceptable to dress the way I do.

I have a cultural interest in watching people's reactions. My general finding is that a lot of people notice it, but men generally seem surprised or shocked, and women generally seem amused or delighted. This has been quite a pervasive pattern in different locations and situations in the Netherlands. I've seen quite a few facial expressions I had never seen before :) I find it kind of amusing that there can be so much commotion about such small things (such as small stud earrings), but I understand it must be terrible if you're trying to blend in. But generally, I find women's reactions heartening and even had some women approach me. It's some of the men's reactions I find kind of daunting, and dissuade me from doing it more often.

On forums I read about quite a range of reactions, and also differences in men's and women's reactions. Some people say that it's generally the women who don't accept it. My brief experience abroad has shown things can be different in different countries as I got aggression from women. So I wonder, do any of you experience the same thing, or do you see particular patterns?

Some more details. I spend quite a bit of attention to make sure it looks good, given that I don't pass. I have two female friends whom I ask their opinion. I feel this text is not complete without some examples. So there they are (most feminine first):

White a-line sundress with pink stripes, transparent panties, stiletto heels, long loose hair, eye shadow, feminine earrings.

Army green Cuban-style heels, black leggings, army green short dress (plain and kind of butch), ponytail.

Man's sandals, man's shorts, man's shirt with print, ponytail, eye shadow, feminine earrings. Here I do not wear any female clothes, but I dress my head in a feminine way. I call this "face crossdressing".

Man's dress shoes, man's "tailored" black trousers, black crop top, ponytail.

[Alice Torn]

I never go out half and half. Always guy, or gal. I try to avoid men as much as possible, and families, kids. So far, I have only been yelled at from a passing truck, by jeering men. have gone into a post office to buy stamps, and a drug store. No problems from the male cashiers. I have not been in close contact enough around men, and rednecks, or gang bangers enough, to experience street talk. Trying to avoid that.

[Patrica Gil]

While shopping as a male I tried on a pair of heels without being shy. The men were shocked and women just smiled. Once a woman just got in the way as if to try and scare me away. Don't really know what that was all about, nor did I care. Still got the dress I wanted.

[Dana44]

I have shopped for heels in male mode and ad no problems r reactions from people. But if I go as a girl I look like one and certainly no issues there. I have long hair and hoop earrings. IN male mode with hair down.. Nobody has said anything about them. I also have painted toes and in yoga class. everybody is used to that and the only comment I ever got was that they liked the orange color that I had done the last time. So as a non-binary person, I never got any comments except as my girly self. after a makeover on man stopped me and told me I was pretty. Kinda made my day.

[bonnie puff]

I have not yet crossdressed in public, but have recently ordered a full outfit and plan to do so shortly.
I have 2 kinds of public destinations i want to explore: 1. night clubs 2. malls during the day
Right now i plan to wear 4" heels and a sexy outfit to the clubs. I suspect that it being night and clubs being somewhat dark, my lack of possibility will be less noticed, and clientele will likely be more accepting of a crossdresser in general. And clubs generally have some security in case someone were to go berserk about it.

Malls and restaurants during the day seem potentially more intimidating because my lack of passibility will be higher. I intend there to wear lower/no heel and less sexy outfit so that i will not be so tall nor stand out as much.

In both of these cases, i do have some anxiety and fear of someone making a scene or worse. I don't fear women but only men who could be potentially threatening to my physical safety. I also don't want to have kids staring at me but that is more an issue of not wanting to be involuntarily exposing them to the taboos of crossdressing.

Does anyone have any feedback as to my thinking about these 2 different settings, and how one might dress or act differently in them?

[Teresa]

It's difficult to give an answer to this simply because you're using the facial hair when dressed to attract attention. I've found very little difference between male and female reaction but then I don't have facial hair or any body hair. I'm not going to say I pass but I have been called a convincing woman on more than one occasion and that's how I like it, I want to leave the guy behind and be seen and accepted as a woman .
Facial hair and the way you describe the clothes you wear is like walking round with a neon sign saying look at me , people will be confused and react more openly .

[Christie ann]

Generally speaking I find most women are quite accepting even when they are taken by surprise. Men on the other hand have a hard time seeing beyond their own ideas of what reality is supposed to be.

[fashionisto]

Great to get so much feedback on this! As to why women are generally more accepting, my guess is that it is a world they are familiar with. For me, the concept of wearing clothes made for women was completely alien, until I started doing it myself. Most men I've met know very little about women's clothes, makeup, etc., even though they appreciate a good-looking woman when they see one. Men can be extremely shy when it comes to their appearance. When I was young I was scared shitless about wearing something that might look inappropriate, so I experimented very little. As for all the surprised men I encounter, I hope some of them will follow in my footsteps :)

What I find puzzling is that a lot of CDers have an unaccepting partner, while generally, women seem not only accepting, but many also seem to like it. There is a big element of feeling betrayed when your partner hides something from you, whatever it is. Nevertheless I have a feeling there are other things wrong in some of those relationships. It seems to me there is a pattern where some CDing husbands cannot really talk openly about their feelings, and hide CDing because they intuitively feel it will not be accepted. Perhaps some are forced too much in a male role? I guess CDers with problems are more likely to seek out this forum.


It's difficult to give an answer to this simply because you're using the facial hair when dressed to attract attention.

Oh sorry. That's a misunderstanding. I don't have any facial hair. With beard cover I mean beard shadow (using concealer to cover it). I have blond hair, so my beard shadow is not too conspicuous. I try to pass some of the time, but fail all of the time, so I am trying to find a way to look good without getting too obsessed about passing. I have found that having a more feminine face does help improve the overall look, even when not passing. Curious thing, I have a kind of androgynous appearance, and often get misgendered at first even in male attire. But upon closer inspection, most people figure it out. Must be the skin texture. Most people are apologetic about it. Generally people are very sensitive about getting the gender right. When I try to look very feminine, and I love doing that, I do find people are more inclined to tiptoe around me, except in specific contexts (like a dress-up party or a drag queen bar). But I don't want people to tiptoe around me, so in that sense I feel more confortable not trying to look too feminine.

[Jackie7]

Thank you Fashionisto for your thoughtful post, which happens (lol) to mirror my own views and experience. I am socially out and about in NYC, which is about half of my time (we also have a country place where I dress at home but mostly do not go out). I'm older, the little hair I have is white, as are my whiskers, which I shave close but otherwise do nothing to hide beard shadow. It's translucent, but it is still there. I think that is just one of the many many clues people use to read us.

Gender is very important to us as a survival species, we automatically detect gender and age immediately. I generally dress to blend into the background as every-woman, nicely dressed middle-aged ladies are mostly invisible anyway, but anyone who focuses their attention on me is very likely to read me, with a few rare exceptions (or maybe they are just instances of kindness and politeness). As you say it is face shape and voice, but it is also stance, gait and gesture.

Anyway what you report is what I mostly experience when out and about - from women, knowing smiles, often warm and accepting. Blank looks from most older men, big grins from some men, no out-of-ordinary reaction whatever from 20-somethings and gen-xers.

Re partners, my exwife was among those who struggled to cope with it, by our fifties could not nor could I keep it under wraps, she wanted it held as a secret then outed me to everyone we knew in the form of complaining about her tough life. We divorced and with help from a counselor and a few friends in the CD community, I decided the only authentic path for me was to be boldly out. So while en femme, met my second wife, who knew my femme side from the start. She took me on as a new girlfriend whose fashion sense desperately needed help; she totally accepts my "differentness" and usually has fun with it. As do her close girlfriends, several of whom also have dated CD men. These experiences lead me to believe there is more acceptance among women in general than we may realize. The problem is, to meet an accepting partner, one must dare exposure and risk rejection. This path certainly was not easy but it did lead me and my partner to a rich and authentic life together.

[Helen_Highwater]

This is a question to which I feel the answers are more complex than it would initially seem.

Although I do not get the opportunity to go out enfemme that often when I do I spend extended time out in the muggle world. I've interacted with males on many occasions but it's usually while they're performing their work function, cashiers, that sort of thing. Only on one or two rare occasions have I felt out and out animosity towards me. I can't recall having the same from female SA's.

Walking around the shops in a crowded mall I think my aim to dress to blend works pretty well and can move around un-noticed by many. I do get read by some and the reactions vary from the classic double take, through to gentle smiles, hard stares (V rare) or by far the most common, a sort of so what, not bothered, move on, almost non reaction.

I have chatted to females however when traveling on public transport and again it's gone well. But this is where it gets complicated. Females will spontaneously talk to other females in those sorts of situations so when we present as female the likelihood of getting a positive response is greater than if we engaged in conversation with a male stranger. This is partly due to many still see us as being gay and associate the conversation with being "chatted up by a queer".

Even GG's engaging a male stranger in conversation are likely not to get as good as response as if they were talking to a female. There's a certain reticence to be found in making even that casual connection (unless the female in question is attractive and the male is attracted to her).

So in answer to the question, it all depends........

[docrobbysherry]

I go out a lot dressed completely. Never 1/2 way or to blend. I can never pass, however. Men in the US r generally not accepting and many act negatively. Some may have masculinity issues as they seem threatened. They may think I'm gay. Women on the other hand, can be quite inquisitive and appreciate my efforts and attire. They don't seem threatened at all. However, approving or even hanging with a dresser, is NOT the same as dating or marrying one!:doh:

If u dress androgenously, many folks may just assume you're gay. And, have no idea you're a CD.:brolleyes:

[Shelly Preston]

I think reactions always depend on your appearance. I can remember when punk rockers used to get funny due to the way they dress from almost everyone.
This makes it difficult to get a true impression of what people are thinking.

As someone who is out regularly in girl mode (which is most of the time), I do notice some differing reactions. If my presentation is at my best I do get noticed but its hard to tell if they see me as a female or not. Women ( not sales assistants) have been know to start conversations with me in shops. which is kind of unexpected. Some guys you can see looking others will pause for longer that they need too just to hold the door open for me.

Yes you will always get a few negative reactions but I can count those in single digits.


So if you dress to get a reaction you probably will.

[fashionisto]

Thanks again for your responses! I much appreciate your insights. Most of you say that women are more accepting than men. I half expected some to say it's the other way round. I also see a lot of you will not dress in a mixed/androgynous style. Me, I like to experiment with different styles. I totally get the point about this being a complex matter, and possibly being seen as gay. It's just I am trying to understand the psychology of dress. I think pictures are important, but I dare not post pictures in a public forum.

I like to map out styles on different axes. To me every piece of attire has a sexyness and a femininity factor. I notice a lot of women dress sexy rather than feminine. For example, with skinny jeans and close-fitting leather jackets. My guess is, to the uninformed public, if I wear something sexy that is outside of male dress code, that's "gay", while if I wear something feminine, it's "transvestite". Mixing masculine with feminine is more "shocking", while mixing "decent" with sexy not so much. I also watch pioneering men with interest, like Conchita Wurst (mixing), Jayden Smith (feminine), and Young Thug (sexy). Sexy styles outside of male dress code would be crop tops, open shoulders, and off-shoulder tops. Feminine styles would be a-line skirts and dresses, frilly styles, flower patterns, earrings, and flowers in your hair (though that's also little-girlish).

There's also something which I call "covert crossdressing". It started out like this for me. I would wear certain women's clothes that look indistinguishable from men's clothes, except they look smarter or more stylish. I read in another thread that some of you do this kind of crossdressing in public. I was a little surprised, I thought I was the only one. I guess this would be another axis, like "dressiness"?

[StevieTV]

I find men feel uncomfortable. Women on the other hand offer compliments.

[Nikki A.]

Women seem to be more accepting and complementary from the gitgo.
When I first started attending church, it was the women and the pastor that first made me feel comfortable. The men in general, didn't really know what to say or how to react it seems. Over time and in joining in on different conversations, it seems that they are more comfortable and accepting of my mode of dress and presentation. Hey one of the old timers even complemented my outfit, last week.

[Stephanie47]

Perhaps women do not view men appearing as a woman or the perception of a man being gay as competition for men who they feel are desirable. Once, I listen to a woman express her frustration upon finding out her husband was gay. She said, if a woman was trying to take her man, then she would have a chance of wooing him back. She expressed frustration with "How do I compete with a man?" I really do not believe women are more accepting of a man appearing as a woman. They may be more tolerant because they is no perception of a threat. Men? I think many men believe "unmanly" men are a threat to the masculinity of the male half of the species. "Unmanly" men maybe view it as a threat to their perceived dominance over women.

I'm pretty sure most cross dressers on this site who present only as a male have listened to some fairly bias attitudes from men and women toward cross dressers, transsexuals and cross dressers. Reveal yourself and the potential for losing friends and family really goes up.

[Nikki A.]

Stephanie, first of all all CDs are not gay or looking for men. When it comes to SOs and wives, the competition isn't always men, but, how do they compete against an idealized version of the "other" woman. Fear breeds jealousy
In my trying to find groups to I felt comfortable in joining, I thought that lesbians might be at least accepting. However, I received the coldest shoulder in any group I either attended or emailed to judge acceptance. I wanted to just be one of the "girls" (at that point I wasn't comfortable around men). Maybe they saw me as competition with an "advantage".

[Cherylgyno]

Fashionisto. I have had opposite responses by both genders in the same place. Had a guy call me afag for wearing pantyhose under shorts. A short time later another guy asked where I buy my pantyhose. Late 70's I few girls were massaging my pantyhose covered legs when another gg yelled he's a fag. The original gg,'and I went to my apt.
People are either going to be human and accept you or they'll act like a biggotted gorilla.

[Tracii G]

Guys will generally run the other way when they see a guy dressed in womens clothes wearing a 5 O'Clock shadow.
Sounds like you enjoy trying to shock people by being a bit strange. If you get a bad reaction well thats your fault.
Personally I like to blend and look like a female that way I'm not throwing my trans ness in their face.
If I am in 50/50 mode people may wonder but I'm not trying to be edgy and all up in their face demanding they see me. Thats just rude IMO
I would rather be left alone.

[susan54]

I find women much more accepting then men, but I hardly encounter men when I am out dressed, Most shops, bars, restaurants and beauticians are staffed by women. I prefer that anyway and if I am in a supermarket even as a guy I prefer to be served by the woman. In one boutique where I am a regular customer the owner says she prefers it if I am fully dressed as a woman (sometimes in male mode I wear a skirt). Lastly, to Bonnie Puff - don't wear 4" heels on your first time out. Heels that are comfortable on carpets at home can become intolerable on pavements and hard floors such as those in malls. I don't just mean uncomfortable - I mean intolerable. On lower heels than that I have had to buy flatter shoes just to be able to get home!

[sherri]

Ime the most common reaction from men is avoidance if at all possible, with women being slightly more willing to engage positively, but then again, two of the most negative reactions I've encountered were from women. I was window shopping an antiques store once when a 50ish couple came out, the woman really gave me the evil eye and I could tell she was thinking about confronting me, but I'm pretty sure her husband murmured something to her and they just got in the car and left, with her glaring all the while. Another time I thought a hotel maid was going to have an aneurysm when she spotted me carrying my things into the room, she was actually yelling at me from down the breezeway, I couldn't tell what she was saying so I just smiled and waved. She left in a huff, probably to report me to the front desk but of course nothing came of it. You just have to have a thick skin, respond to hostility with kindness if you can and be prepared to stand your ground if you have to but remember that with a hostile male discretion is the better part of valor.