Trans envy?

[drEdge]

Hi all. I just watched Louis Ck's newest comedy special, and he said something that really spoke to me.

Here's the quote (removed the profanity):
"I envy transgender people, though. I do.
It's a tough road,
but I envy them on this level
that they figured out what's going on
with them, and they fixed it.
What an amazing gift,
to know what [] is wrong with you.
Who else gets to have that?
It's just a mushy,
I don't [] have any idea!"

Anyone else experience this? I just can't figure out my own sexuality!! At least if I were trans I feel I would have some inner peace.

But as it is, I have no peace with my inner girl. I constantly feel self loathing and shame :( But when dressing, I feel euphoric and when I am being my inner girl I feel truly at peace. However that all goes away when it's time to turn back. I feel like if it weren't for all the people in my life who would freak out, I'd probably just be trans, but I can't because I'm scared what they would do. Also gender reassignment is expensive and I am a poor person :P Another issue with being trans is that I'm pretty straight. I love girls so much! although I can also get really gay, especially when dressing. But I am straight most of the time. So yeah, I don't know what to think about myself.

[Tracii G]

Maybe you are a CD and not trans at all.
Just because you like wearing clothes of the other gender doesn't change your sexual preference.
90% of MtF CD's are straight men that are married and have kids.
Gender expression and sexual preference are very different things
Trans seems to be the "in" thing to be right now and I think a lot of young people say they are trans but only do it for attention.
The trans girl on you tube called Milo is one of those confused trannies who's sexuality changes from week to week.

[drEdge]

Hmmm interesting. Then why do I feel so miserable as a man and so elated as a woman? Is this normal for CDs?

[Tracii G]

Thats a common feeling among CD's because they carry so much guilt over their CDing.
They love dressing up but feel guilt/shame because they think it makes them gay or worry it will mean their sexuality is under attack.
Then comes loathing when they are back in male mode.
A vicious circle for some but if you accept yourself and not give in to the old homophobic nonsense you learned growing up you might find an answer.

[Krisi]

I agree with Tracii G, especially about trans being the "in" thing. I suspect some of these people are going to regret some of the things they have done at some point.

As for being miserable as a male and elated as a woman, you aren't really a woman so you can't know what it is like to be one. Being a woman is far more than boobs, makeup and heels. As for "normal for CDs", well, we are not "normal" or we wouldn't be strapping on boobs and wigs.

In life, we all have to learn to accept what we are. If you're having a problem with that, professional help may be what you need.

[Tracii G]

Krisi you make a solid point about being normal.

What I see so much with younger people is the incessant need for attention. Some go nuts and tear up stuff and end up in jail and never grow up all for attention.
Then you have the bunch that grab whatever the new cool thing is and claim that because they are dying for attention and really have no idea what they are doing.
If someone has to question if they are trans or not most likely they aren't because if you were you would know it beyond a shadow of a doubt, same goes for being gay if you are gay you deff know it.

[NancySue]

Agree with Tracii. Being "trans" is the new "in" thing and is pushed as part of the GLBT agenda, so they're all for promoting those who can't seem to decide....x or y. I,too, think attention is #1 along with hope for some government freebies. I'm sure there are some truly confused people...transvestite, transgender or transsexual ?? Whatever. The armed forces are strongly considering enlisting transgenders. I proudly served in the U S Navy. Word of advice, one with indecision better know, for sure, before signing the dotted line. There's no turning back. They gotcha.

[Tracii G]

I hope I didn't make DrEdge mad by being totally honest. Its just the way I am and I usually piss the young ones off.
It does seem young adults think they have it all figured out and get mad at the messenger that tells them life haven't even started messing with them.

[Bobbi46]

Tracii, Nancy Sue,
valid points indeed, is it also a degree of maturity that needs to be in place also to see in what direction one is going?

[Dana44]

Yeah, try to be gender fluid. The switch is hard on us and when switch for a while we want to stay that way. But noooo. it switches back. We feel good both ways though. Sometimes the switch is hard.

[Tracii G]

Dana for some the switching is hard. They don't understand a lot of it depends on the mood they are in.
They don't realize you don't have to be one or the other and you can be both again depending on what mood they are in that day.

[jack-ie]

I couldn't agree more. I have days when I (almost) feel like the old "macho" Jack. Other when I'm just jackie. In truth, the old "macho" me was more a façade and jackie is much more liberating and natural.

[Ressie]

I thought CD is under the TG umbrella.

http://www.focusonthefamily.com/socialissues/family/public-restrooms-your-privacy-and-safety/who-is-included-in-the-transgender-umbrella

No wonder some people use the phrase "gender confused".

[Teresa]

DrEdge,
The quote does ring true .
Finding yourself no matter where you feel you are on the TG road is an amazing thing, to some we will never be fixed but that doesn't matter if we feel no shame and guilt and are totally comfortable with being dressed.

Most of us are straight but again does that really matter, if you don't have a problem with your sexuality why worry what others think. No matter how I dress I still prefer the girls .

At least I get to go out socially now and enjoy being dressed as Teresa , most of the public I've met don't have a problem with that.

[Rachael Leigh]

I'm gender fluid as well I've began to manage my not wanting to switch or the back en forth by incorporating my fem side
into my male side. I will wear makeup in male mode more often and of course underdressing

[Lana Mae]

First you need to get rid of the self loathing and shame! A professional may be what you need! You have to make peace with yourself before you worry about what others will think! IMHO Hugs Lana Mae

[RobertaFrancesca]

I like that you said you find peace in this and that you also find a euphoria because I feel the same way too. there really is nothing like it and I cannot believe how well this satisfies sexual and creative energy for me.

I spent a lot of my life in a small town and never had the courage to come out. I think it would have had to many negatives to deal with. Having moved far from home has been an amplification of the great peace and joy I feel while being dressed. As I practice my femme everyday I hope to become even more confident, be out and live that way whenever I choose, and to maybe be an example to others one day that it is ok.

Thanks for sharing hon.

[Ariana225]

I love having a male and female side! You get to experience both sides of everything. Another thing about being transgender full time is also the way women in society are treated. As a feminist I am not blind to the predjudice that trans and GG experience daily. You may miss some of your male experiences going full time. I recommend a qualified gender counselor if you feel you need to. There is no shame in that love! ❤️

[natalie edwards]

but as it is, i have no peace with my inner girl. I constantly feel self loathing and shame :( but when dressing, i feel euphoric and when i am being my inner girl i feel truly at peace. However that all goes away when it's time to turn back.

exactly!

[docrobbysherry]

Then again, some of us CD's don't have a "female inner side". We simply enjoy dressing up!:battingeyelashes:

[Tracii G]

Sherry thats where a lot of CD's get confused, they have heard others talk about it and assume because they like to dress they have have a female side too when that may not be the case.

[Aunt Kelly]

drEdge,

First of all, let's be clear. You are not going to get professional help on this forum, and that is what you should seek if the things you've described are really bothering you, and it sounds like they are.
You list some classic signs and symptoms of being transsexual, but you also list some that would rule out that diagnosis. It may be that "gender fluid" is a better term for you. Whatever label turns out to be the right one, labels won't fix you. That's on you. You will need to find a way to resolve the conflict between your fear of "freaking out" all those people in your life and the transgender feelings that are probably going to be a permanent part of you. Yes, you might successfully suppress them for a long time. Many of us have at one time or another, and most of those have found that it is a pointless fight. The feelings will come back, usually stronger and often at a markedly inopportune time, well into a long term relationship, for example.
There is nothing "wrong" with you. The professional help recommendation isn't because you need "fixing". It is because you need to find a way to find out who you are and accept it. And by the way, sexual preference usually has very little to do with gender identity. I am acquainted with three trans women. Two of them are not attracted to men. Most cross dressers, by far, are heterosexuals. And of course there are many who, like you, have sexual preferences that shift with their gender identity.
So give some thought to counseling and let someone help you figure out for yourself "what to think about" yourself.

Meanwhile, you are welcome, accepted and understood here. Your story is common and you will find many of us who can relate directly to the issues you're having.

Hugs,


Kelly

[Lorileah]

Anyone else experience this? I just can't figure out my own sexuality!! At least if I were trans I feel I would have some inner peace.

I wouldn't bet on it

[Ariana225]

Sherry thats where a lot of CD's get confused, they have heard others talk about it and assume because they like to dress they have have a female side too when that may not be the case.

I know I have that side and I embrace it. I cry over emotional videos, love chick flicks, etc. I envy women and am 100% feminist. I love being masculine and feminine. I am a romantic, love to cuddle, love bubble baths, etc. I don't know what qualifys as having a female side since every woman is different. But I guess the society driven label is a part of me. But not everything is black and white obviously! ☺️

[Tracii G]

Roberta how can you be a feminist when you were not born a woman?

[Dana44]

Tracii, you are totally wrong about gender fluid being a mood change. I have posted a switch and it really is the brain switch that may come from physical activity. or bio activity. Not at all a mood thing. where did you ever get that thought?

[Tracii G]

Dana I never said anything about gender fluid.
Some CD's talk about a switch turning on when the get their make up on or when they put their wig on.
Some CD's have a hard time trying to understand the reality of it all and where they fit in the grand scheme of things.
What activities have you been engaged in when you have had a switch?
Whats the difference between a physical activity and a bio activity?
Everybody has moods and the effects of those have a lot to do with what a person does.

[Ariana225]

Roberta how can you be a feminist when you were not born a woman?

Feminist "a person who supports feminism"

Feminism "the advocacy of women's rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes."

Very easily Tracii. You don't have to be a GG to be a supporter of feminism 😘

[Jean 103]

First if you envy a transgender person, you haven't got a clue what it is like. And they are all different. Gender fluid has been used to describe me. I represent as a guy at work and live as a transgender person the rest of the time. No matter what I'm wearing I'm the same person. I'm out. Im comfortable in whatever I'm wearing. I'm also BI, but only date guys right now, although that almost changed the other night at karaoke. They are just labels. I'm eather very free or crazy.

[Tracii G]

Roberta feminism as it is being portrayed in the news right now isn't real feminism its man hating.
Every company I have worked for for the past 45 years paid the women the same as the men for the same job.
Equality of the sexes thats funny men and women are already equal under the law.
So with all things being equal if a woman hits a man in anger he has the right to fight back in self defense right?
You tube is full of videos of girls getting their butts kicked because they hit a guy and weren't expecting the guy to hit back in self defense.
Hows that for equal treatment ?
No woman I know personally wants anything to do with the feminism of today.
They want to be treated with respect just like any one else.I think thats fair.
And no I am not a misogynist or a homophobe nor do I have male privilege so don't go there.

[drEdge]

I hope I didn't make DrEdge mad by being totally honest. Its just the way I am and I usually piss the young ones off.
It does seem young adults think they have it all figured out and get mad at the messenger that tells them life haven't even started messing with them.

You didn't make me mad at all, I appreciate your honesty and point of view. You make some good points. I did have pretty homophobic upbringing and I still am affected by it, it seems. I hate homophobia though! I just repress it in myself I guess.

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Yeah, try to be gender fluid. The switch is hard on us and when switch for a while we want to stay that way. But noooo. it switches back. We feel good both ways though. Sometimes the switch is hard.

Yeah yknow I've thought about that before... and it sounds highly appealing to me actually. But unfortunately I'm scared the people in my life will not approve... >.>

[Tracii G]

I think most guys have been brought up in a homophobic environment its just the way society is for the most part.
I call out people here for being homophobic all the time and yes we have a few of them here.

Being afraid of what the family will think is a common fear so you are not alone with that feeling.

[drEdge]

DrEdge,
The quote does ring true .
Finding yourself no matter where you feel you are on the TG road is an amazing thing, to some we will never be fixed but that doesn't matter if we feel no shame and guilt and are totally comfortable with being dressed.

Most of us are straight but again does that really matter, if you don't have a problem with your sexuality why worry what others think. No matter how I dress I still prefer the girls .

At least I get to go out socially now and enjoy being dressed as Teresa , most of the public I've met don't have a problem with that.

Interesting, you're right. I shouldn't worry what others think.. But I do worry what others think... Although it's not the public I'm too concerned about, it's my gf, friends and family I'm worried about what they would think. Can't let any of. them know... >.> (except my gf)

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First you need to get rid of the self loathing and shame! A professional may be what you need! You have to make peace with yourself before you worry about what others will think! IMHO Hugs Lana Mae

thanks hun... Yeesh maybe ur right about that professional thing. But I wonder how much that would cost.. lol aforementioned I am poor.
Also, nice signature!

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drEdge,

First of all, let's be clear. You are not going to get professional help on this forum, and that is what you should seek if the things you've described are really bothering you, and it sounds like they are.
You list some classic signs and symptoms of being transsexual, but you also list some that would rule out that diagnosis. It may be that "gender fluid" is a better term for you. Whatever label turns out to be the right one, labels won't fix you. That's on you. You will need to find a way to resolve the conflict between your fear of "freaking out" all those people in your life and the transgender feelings that are probably going to be a permanent part of you. Yes, you might successfully suppress them for a long time. Many of us have at one time or another, and most of those have found that it is a pointless fight. The feelings will come back, usually stronger and often at a markedly inopportune time, well into a long term relationship, for example.
There is nothing "wrong" with you. The professional help recommendation isn't because you need "fixing". It is because you need to find a way to find out who you are and accept it. And by the way, sexual preference usually has very little to do with gender identity. I am acquainted with three trans women. Two of them are not attracted to men. Most cross dressers, by far, are heterosexuals. And of course there are many who, like you, have sexual preferences that shift with their gender identity.
So give some thought to counseling and let someone help you figure out for yourself "what to think about" yourself.

Meanwhile, you are welcome, accepted and understood here. Your story is common and you will find many of us who can relate directly to the issues you're having.

Hugs,


Kelly

Thank you SO much for your heartfelt reply, tearing up a little here. Wait ... "there are many who have sexual preferences that shift with their identity"? Oh thank God! I thought I was alone in this. Why didnt anyone tell me?! Your making sense to me girl... your right labels wont change anything... maybe i should just give up on labels and find peace that way. gah I feel so much more enlightened after reading this thread, but yet still so confused. Maybe yall are right about that professional help idea... I guess after reading this thread... I feel like being gender fluid sounds like it might be right for me... .I could see myself switching back between the two genders that sounds amazing to me. Although here's my next problem... I still have friends and family and an SO who are all pretty in the dark about this. I don't know... what do I do? Just say 'sup guys, so Im a girl today'? What would my next step be?

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First if you envy a transgender person, you haven't got a clue what it is like. And they are all different. Gender fluid has been used to describe me. I represent as a guy at work and live as a transgender person the rest of the time. No matter what I'm wearing I'm the same person. I'm out. Im comfortable in whatever I'm wearing. I'm also BI, but only date guys right now, although that almost changed the other night at karaoke. They are just labels. I'm eather very free or crazy.

Yeah, I know it's a tough road as Louis said in the quote I posted. I am well aware they are not without their own problems. I just envy them in that one regard.
Yeah I suppose I could be considered bi too lol. But your right, those are just labels. Free and crazy!? now those are some labels I can get behind.

[Kate Simmons]

It's more about being comfortable in our own skin than anything else. Taking ownership of our feelings and making them work for us should be our ultimate goal. :battingeyelashes::)

[SaraLin]

Sorry hon, there are no easy answers to what you're going through, and nobody else can really answer them for you. You'll have to find your own course.

That said - by all means listen to the advice the other girls in here give you. You don't have to take any of it, but there is a lot of experience out there, and much of what they have to say could be helpful for you.

now for my two cents' worth...

Don't waste time in self-loathing and shame. Those are feelings you impose on yourself for not meeting what you believe are the expectations of others. I know it's tough, but you need to accept that you are exactly who you were meant to be.

being "trans" isn't something you do, it's something you are. Taking the path to body transformation is a very big step, and only to be taken by those who are positive that there is no other option. From what little I've read so far, it doesn't look like you're there yet - and might never be. That's OK too.

[Ariana225]

Tracii, there are extreme members that accociate with most groups. Just because you have never seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just because you have seen some glorified man hating extremism doesn't define feminism for everyone. Look up the video from the male students in Australia called 'why feminism is important to me'. For example there is still pride all over our country even though we won the right for them to get married. There is still many people in this country that think they are superior to the LGBT community. It's the same way with sexism and racism. So yes I'm a feminist because it is still happening in our society, other society's, the work place, and even in private places. Not witnessing something or experiencing something personally does not disprove it. It's okay if you disagree hun, I'm not here to make you change your mind, just describing my reason for being a male feminist.

[Krisi]

Roberta feminism as it is being portrayed in the news right now isn't real feminism its man hating.
Every company I have worked for for the past 45 years paid the women the same as the men for the same job.
Equality of the sexes thats funny men and women are already equal under the law.
So with all things being equal if a woman hits a man in anger he has the right to fight back in self defense right?
You tube is full of videos of girls getting their butts kicked because they hit a guy and weren't expecting the guy to hit back in self defense.
Hows that for equal treatment ?
No woman I know personally wants anything to do with the feminism of today.
They want to be treated with respect just like any one else.I think thats fair.
And no I am not a misogynist or a homophobe nor do I have male privilege so don't go there.

Well said!

[Fiona123]

We were down this road about a month ago. I am a feminist. I am transgender. I disagree with the notion that you need to be female to be feminist.

Back to the original post, I love Louis CK but I don't think all trans folks have it all figured out. I certainly don't. I applaud Louis' thought though anyways.

[Ressie]

Feminism breaks down into several issues, some that I don't agree with and others I do. But that's a different topic for a different forum and different website.

But this thread is getting very interesting. It becomes clear that we're all different and there are many aspects to this whole gender/transgender thing. We all have to deal with it in our own way because there's too much involved.

[Tracii G]

Yes Ressie the gender spectrum is not a one size fits all thing.
There are so many differences between us all it is very hard to understand at times.
Roberta everywhere I look at womens marches its nothing but extremist types whether its on you tube ,TV, or even the local womens march back at the first of the year.
Several of us were going to go join the march here locally and we were yelled at and called vile names by the women.
They sure didn't want LGBT people there that was obvious.
There are plenty of TG/MtF CDers that feel they have a female side so automatically think they are feminists.

[Aunt Kelly]

Steering the thread back toward topic... I can add nothing to what Sara has said. Be kind to yourself. Depending on where you live, low or no cost counseling may be readily available. That will help you sort things more easily.

[Fiona123]

My feminism is not automatically derived from my femme side. It comes from my heart.

[greeneyes]

Roberta feminism as it is being portrayed in the news right now isn't real feminism its man hating.
Every company I have worked for for the past 45 years paid the women the same as the men for the same job.
Equality of the sexes thats funny men and women are already equal under the law.
So with all things being equal if a woman hits a man in anger he has the right to fight back in self defense right?
You tube is full of videos of girls getting their butts kicked because they hit a guy and weren't expecting the guy to hit back in self defense.
Hows that for equal treatment ?
No woman I know personally wants anything to do with the feminism of today.
They want to be treated with respect just like any one else.I think thats fair.
And no I am not a misogynist or a homophobe nor do I have male privilege so don't go there.

I agree....Well said...as a woman of today I am ashamed of "feminists" who are just using that term to try and hate (and guilt trip or have control) on men!

[yuri]

I don't know if I'm a CD or trans. I have only ever had girlfriends but recently I have been fantasizing about guys.

I guess what I have is more of 'girl envy' than 'trans envy'.

[Sarah Doepner]

I appreciate Louis CK in the positive message he offers in that quote. It's unfortunate that he's looking at a pretty small sample, probably at those who fully transition and end up happy. There are a much larger number of us who are still working on finding out what is wrong, and possibly more important, what is right with us. Once we decide that accepting our individual take on gender is right and not wrong, it's a big step forward.

While I consider myself under the Trans umbrella, there are different bits and pieces that fit better than others and I'm still attempting to get a good handle on it. This is a current attempt to make sense of how I feel and what I need to do. It's just a theory and there are problems with it, but I try to parse out the major components of what bothers me. It seems in my arena of gender there are two pieces; Gender Dysphoria or the mental disconnect between how I feel and how I want to behave and see myself, and Body Dysphoria, or how discontented I am having a male body that doesn't match the feminine gender I often need to express. I think I have a stronger case of Gender Dysphoria than Body Dysphoria, so my self medication is primarily dressing and attitude, with less of an interest in hormones or eventual surgery. Does that make any sense at all?

[Tracii G]

Sarah good points and it proves there is no one size fits all answer.
Body dysphoria is what bothers me the most because my male body does not match how I feel inside and its frustrating to say the least.

[sometimes_miss]

Louie has made numerous remarks over the years, suggesting that he has had some gender/sexuality issues going on.

That said, figuring it all out doesn't necessarily make for a resolution to all the problems that exist, as he seems to think. Our mental health professions usually give us the impression that if we work out all our problems and understand why we feel the way we do, we'll get cured of everything and feel better. Nothing could be further from the truth. All they can promise, is that we MIGHT understand ourselves better, and be better able to deal with the situation we are in, and, become productive members of society instead of say, sitting in a dark corner feeling sorry for ourselves.

Consider the huge number of crossdressers who aren't attracted to men. We're stuck; we don't want anything sexually to do with men, and the number of women who want anything to do with us, is statistically insignificant; you can practically count them on a couple of hands, but there are MILLIONS of US. So, what to do? They have no answer for us.

Same thing with the TS folks. Sure, they have figured out who and what they are. But is there really a solution? How many of the soon to be opposite sex will actually accept them as mates? How many will suffer the loss of employment, family, and friends? Even loss of housing?

Louis conveniently forgets about all that.


Hmmm interesting. Then why do I feel so miserable as a man and so elated as a woman? Is this normal for CDs?
Because we're not actually being women. We're imagining only the good stuff.

[drEdge]

Louie has made numerous remarks over the years, suggesting that he has had some gender/sexuality issues going on.

That said, figuring it all out doesn't necessarily make for a resolution to all the problems that exist, as he seems to think. Our mental health professions usually give us the impression that if we work out all our problems and understand why we feel the way we do, we'll get cured of everything and feel better. Nothing could be further from the truth. All they can promise, is that we MIGHT understand ourselves better, and be better able to deal with the situation we are in, and, become productive members of society instead of say, sitting in a dark corner feeling sorry for ourselves.

Consider the huge number of crossdressers who aren't attracted to men. We're stuck; we don't want anything sexually to do with men, and the number of women who want anything to do with us, is statistically insignificant; you can practically count them on a couple of hands, but there are MILLIONS of US. So, what to do? They have no answer for us.


Oh God. You hit the nail on the head thats for sure...
So for those of us who are into women... are we just doomed to live in secrecy? Or to find a woman who loves us enough to tolerate us? That's the best we can do?

Your post is kinda bleak yknow that? :P



Because we're not actually being women. We're imagining only the good stuff.


Yeah you're right. That's one of the reasons why right now I'm questioning my gender identity. I feel like gender fluid or bigender might describe me, but I also realize that my fantasy is just a small aspect of being a woman. . .

[Ressie]

Louis CK's quote is from his comedy routine. He's talking about a post-op TS that knew he/she was a female at age 6. "that guy jeff, he's a woman now". Anyway, this is where the word transgender gets confusing thanks to the media. Does transgender equal transexual? If so, why did a new word have to be coined with the same meaning?

So what he's really talking about is transexuals that fix their situation with SRS. Since this is the crossdresser forum, we don't fit into that group. Some of us have considered that we might be transexual and most of us know we aren't. We are somewhere under the TG umbrella yet if a part time CD (in male mode) says that they're transgender it isn't understood.