DADT delema

[cdtraveler]

I am in a DADT arrangement with my SO since I came out to her. So the irony here is I want to talk about my dressing but she doesn't. When she does its bc she's found something I've left out or when she is fearful about something (sometimes related to my dressing other times its other things but she transfers the worry onto the dressing . Her biggest fear is all she has read about dressing being a progressive endenver and there coming a time.when where I want to go with things ia somewhere she can't. I think in the 4 + years since she's known we've set solid ground rules which I've stuck to but I find myself getting increasingly frustrated over the desire to be more open with her and her desire to pretend it doesn't exist. We have young kids and neither of us want to expose them to this side of me at least until they are older so I share her desire to keeps things under wraps. Just want her to want to know more about this side of me and maybe find a way to use this to become closer not further apart. Right now however the pretending it doesn't exist, dressing then not saying so.and hiding it from her so she doesn't have to be uncomfortable with the idea feels like the same wall that was there when she didn't know.
Some background:
We've been to couseling, i only dress closeted or on the road, we have a set of written boundries which i have honored and she's ok'd me having my make up bag in our closet and she has seen 1 picture of me dressed but thats it. Says she loves me, is glad we are together and that I am an attentive dad and husband and I have made sure my fem side doesn't mean she doesn't have her man when she wants him.

,



So would be grateful for input here from GGs and other gurls too.

Thank you

[Becky Blue]

The problem I see with a lot of DADT stories is that the conversations are only negative ones once the DADT is established. As you show above they relate to her finding something or her concerns about your progression. You never get to talk about how great it is or any of the positives. So your dressing becomes the dark side, meaning no good can come from it. How do you get nice positive discussions going? If I knew that I would have written THE book and retired on teh royalties by now I'm sure.

[Stephanie47]

traveler, I've traveled the same road since 1983. My wife chooses not to discuss my cross dressing. When we did have "The Talk" that many years ago she told me it was alright with her if I wanted to join a support group. At that time there were none in my area. There wasn't the Internet. Even if I leave an article of clothing out she'll pick it up, fold it and place it on top of the washer/dryer. She'll tell me, but, no conversation. Once I forgot to pop my falsies which were in the kitchen sink (water balloons). No discussion. She knows packages arrive. Since it is DADT I do not share my purchases with her, although she would probably feint. No woman she knows has over 150 dresses, panties by the score, slips by the hundreds.

I would not brand my story as 'negative.' If my wife has an aversion to men wearing women's clothing should I force it upon her? All this stuff I read saying if she loved me she would take all of me. If you love her you should not force cross dressing upon her. Before forcing the issue make a list of your goals, and, whether they are attainable. It sounds as if counseling was of some benefit to the extent your wife may understand what you are not, even though she may not know who you are. In my marriage that would be both of us.

[Sara Jessica]

I traveled your path, traveller (pun fully intended :) ). After a long relationship in college with one who was fully accepting, my marriage to someone else devolved into a situation where every day I'd wake up hoping it would be the day where I'd break through, whether with more positive communication or a step forward in the acceptance department (read: participation on her part). It never happened as I envisioned and every day I'd go to sleep with a slight pang of disappointment.

Liberation from this cycle came about when I found my social side away from the home. Developing true friendships allowed me to get to where I am now. I have zero expectation that she will ever come around more than she is now and I am 1000% OK with that. Having been liberated, it made a huge difference in my ability to cope with this whole thing.

[Krisi]

"I am in a DADT arrangement with my SO" ...........

OK, lets have a little more information here. Is this "SO" your wife and you have children? A long time, live in girlfriend and you have children together? Or a "girlfriend"?

If you are not married to this woman and you don't have children with her, perhaps you should consider if this is someone you want to spend the rest of your life with.

[Rachael Leigh]

As someone who broke boundaries in my DADT and now I'm seperated, I advise to go slow and make sure you are both together on anything new you wish to bring into your dressing.
Don't make the mistakes I've made.

[Vikky]

I am relate to your story as I am in a similar situation, the only difference is that we have not been to counselling.
My wife tolerates my CDing, and has bought me bits and pieces, but mainly pretends it is happening. Not sure what the answer is long term.
Vikky

[Jennie2]

I wish I could help, but I am in a similar situation and at this time I can't see a solution to break the cycle. it is the little sarcastic quips and comments that dash any hopes of having a more open discussion. I believe a lot of it is borne out of fear of my dressing becoming public and the humiliation it would bring on my wife, so it's not about me dressing but 'what would the neighbors think.:sad:

[LeannS]

Traveler
I have read in other posts write a letter to her and tell her what you think she needs to hear from you.

Jennie oh yes the neighbors what would they think thats what I hear also and to go along with that she knows a lot of people in our city.
well to hell with them I am having a great time doing what I want in my yard. I don't go in the front yard and stay only in the backyard
And if they see a hairy old woman oh well they shouldn't have been looking this way. right
hope everything will work out for you

Leann

[Shely]

Trailer,
My situation is identical. DADT is a wall between two. I would love to talk about this with my wife of 40 Years. There doesn't seem to be an easy way ahead.

[docrobbysherry]

Traveler, the problem is dressing is a huge part of our lives. So, it's natural that we wish to share with those we live with. I'm DADT with my live in adult daughter and am constantly biting my tongue when I begin to tell her something about Sherry she doesn't want to hear.:sad:

However, I choose to think of my dressing as an activity like golf. If we were all golf fanatics instead of dressers our loved ones wouldn't wish to hear about yet another, "Crazy thing that happened on the back 9", either. It makes it less personal and easier for me to just suck it up and shut up! :straightface:

[Aunt Kelly]

I am in a DADT arrangement with my SO since I came out to her. So the irony here is I want to talk about my dressing but she doesn't.

That would be breaking your agreement. Why do you want to upset the apple cart by talking about your dressing? That's not a rhetorical question by the way. I'm trying understand what is driving to risk what seems to have been a workable arrangement. Is it possible that your SO's fears are at least somewhat valid? Do you need something more than you are able to get under the current terms?

[Dana44]

I agree with what is said here A DADT situation is what it is and even though you want her to accept you she won't yet. Maybe in a few year after the kids are grown. Possibly not then. I went through so many women in my life before I found some support. But you have a wife that lets you do DADT and don't ever talk to her about it. Just enjoy your girly self. And if you travel. Yep you can be all you can be. I did that for many years of travel.

[Teresa]

CDtraveller,
I know many of us don't have a choice to accept DADT if we want to keep our relationship together. The problem I've found is the rules are all on the partners side, often with very little consideration of what is truly going on inside our heads. OK that does depend where we are on the TG road, the problem is hand on heart we can't truthfully answer that question.
Another problem with DADT is the goalposts keep moving, rules agreed to one day are chewed on over night and the next day you find you've taken two steps back.

Many of the fears are irrational ones, the what-ifs hardly ever happen if at all, OK I understand you not wanting your children to know , I commend you for that, the problem is there is never a right time to tell them.

The outcome of DADT running it's course is in my thread in loved ones. I finally couldn't take the restrictions , the rejection of part of my being , the sarcasm etc, etc, after facing gender counselling alone we have finally decided to try a separation . Neither of us are happy, my children are grown up and fully aware of the situation , we all knew the compromise we reached was just that but not a long term solution. I Still intend to be their for them, that is if I'm allowed to be, it may sound hard but that's their problem not mine, I have done my best but my dressing isn't going away, it's for life and now I want to live that part of my life before it's too late. At some point you have to take care of yourself, no one else is going to do it.

Setting boundaries can only work short term, at some point you have to be true to yourself , long term those restrictions are going to hurt, to me they say your partner is rejecting part of your being, it doesn't exist. My wife finally broke down and cried because she finally realised that level of rejection. As most women don't have that trait they will never understand it, so it's up to us to believe and accept ourselves to make that point clear . Most of us were born like it and it's for life, the sooner we accept that we can try and put the message across to others, that includes our close family and the general public. I have no regrets about being out, most of the fears are groundless, but at the same time we owe it to others to conduct ourselves sensibly if we hope to gain total acceptance.

[cdtraveler]

Appreciate the input greatly and hope more will add their's as well. To Aunt Kelly, my reply to the question posed about why upset a good thing is that I love my spouse and want to not have barriers between us. While she knows it still feels like a secret that I should be a shamed of . I do get that my decisions impact more than just me just bummed out there isn't yet the willingness to.engage or be curious. Hey one day at a time.

[JamieG]

A couple of thoughts from someone who started with DADT and is in more of "I support you but don't want to participate" relationship now: First, as long you find it shameful, she will too. Don't be so down on yourself. Second, humor is a fantastic way to break the ice. Once in a while (not more often than once a month), slip in a joke that alludes to your dressing. Ideally, it should come off as self-deprecating without sounding whiny. However, if the jokes fall flat then spread them out more. It is possible to overdue it and annoy her! But, if you can get her to laugh about the circumstances, or better yet, even make a good-natured joke (as opposed to a taunt) herself, that's a great start. Third, you need to find a way to show her that she (and the kids) are still more important to you than dressing. Remember, actions speak louder for words. I've repeated this story many times here, but a real turning point for my wife and I happened when she encouraged me to go a trans-meeting that I had been looking forward to for months, but I then chose to stay home because I could tell she was sicker than she let on and really needed me to help with the kids.

[Lisa85]

if we were all golf fanatics instead of dressers our loved ones wouldn't wish to hear about yet another, "crazy thing that happened on the back 9", either.

amen amen amen

I understand not wanting to talk about your situation, but without a feeling the world you live in, it's impossible to provide much. Humor is great in defusing a situation, but there are really different DADT situations from DADS with allocated personal time down to DADT with absolute denial and no freedom to express this side of who you are. What is your DADT, is it don't do it, or more don't talk about it, or don't leave props around, or what. More importantly, in your relationship do both of you have some free personal time, or must all time be joint time. [That may feel like time in the joint...]

[Teresa]

CDTraveller,
The simple answer to Aunt Kelly's question is you want more and to achieve that you want to be more open and accepting , you want to be totally honest and stop hiding . Eventually it will happen , that is inevitable , whether you have your wife on board or not, I had to find ways to work round mine, it doesn't lead to a happy situation as the pressure builds up.

I've tried the humourous side , as Jamie suggests , yes it does work as long as you don't overdo it, it depends how much your wife isn't telling you, if she truthfully hates it with avengeance then it's going to dig a bigger hole for you .

I don't want to appear too much of a doom monger but I've been there and experienced the situation you talk about and some things take their natural course and for many it's a similar route to mine.

[cdtraveler]

DADT or DADS..... my situation is more towards DADT but she hates when any reminder is left around primarily fearful that the kids will start asking questions which is completely understandable. As the kids grow and move on will be most interesting to see what she's. OK with but anything remotely like acceptance from her and she seems to catch herself. Almost like she's thinking" if I accept even a little then this will encourage more". Maybe she feels like she'd lose me to thw dressing but thats not based off of how I ve conducted myself todate by any stretch. The real irony here is she stands a better chance of losing me by stayimg the pressent course In fact if she embraced me as I am she'd have me forever..

[Meghan4now]

Amanda, it is tough, and I know exactly what you're talking about. I currently go out roughly about once a month or two. (Well grounded with bum leg for now). Mostly to Crossport. I find that keeping in low key helps. Always tell my wife that she is welcome, but not expected to come. Too bad because there are other couples that could help her feel welcome. We should talk to some of those couples about maybe a wives night, or maybe a drab night so the wives can get together and see that it's safe.

I might suggest that to the crossport board. And remember you can meet with others for lunch when your needing to talk. Don't have to be enfemme.

[Teresa]

CD Traveller,
Your last comment says it all, " If she embraced me as I am she'd have me forever !"

For me it's not going to happen, I kept hanging in hoping but instead received total rejection, now I'm afraid it's all too late. I could be the loser but living my own life on my terms is the only way I'm going discover that now.

Sometimes they are so blindly stubborn they will cut off their nose to spite their face before accepting the needs of a CDing partner .

[Julie1123]

My wife and I have a DADT, out of sight, out of mind agreement. I don't talk about it unless she asks, and as long as I keep it out of sight, she doesn't mind. Like you, I long to be able to talk to her about this side of me. However, this is one of the very few things that I can't do, per the boundaries we've agreed on, that I wish I could. Yes, being able to do so would bring us closer together. One more thing to share and talk about. My wife is completely pro-trans when it comes to political issues, she enjoys songs and movies that have crossdressers in them, but I think she worries for me and for how it would play out if people in our social circles knew. We all have fears and insecurities that we are able to deal with to different degrees. I'm forever grateful that my wife is willing to face her fear at least enough to allow me to do what I need to do and loves me enough to support me as best she can in this.

[Scarlett398]

Wow, Julie...I have the exact same scenario with my wife! Glad to here someone else is in the same situation with their wife as I'm in and for the same reasons!

XOXOXO Scarlett :love:

- - - Updated - - -

Hi Teresa, it's Scarlett....I just wanted to let you know that I love reading your posts. They are always well written and extremely insightful! They come from years of experience and knowledge regarding our world of cross dressing.

I'm so sorry you are separated from your wife. I know that will never be the case with me and my wife. We love each other way too much. She's my best friend and lover and I'm her best friend and lover. We love being around each other and spending lots of time together. I couldn't imagine life without her.

I am in a permanent don't ask don't tell situation when it comes to my cross dressing up as Scarlett. She is accepting of my cross dressing but wants me to do it totally in private and not discuss it with her. I'm 100% OK with that. My wife is very open when it comes to accepting people who are gay, lesbian, trans gender, and of different backgrounds or political parties. She has to be on the conservative side where we live because of her employment situation and because the area in which we live is a very conservative part of the country - this ain't exactly Los Vegas, San Francisco, or Bourbon Street in New Orleans - far from it indeed. She has a very high ranking job in our area and she and I can't take the chance of coming out with my cross dressing to anyone else besides ourselves. So I keep things private and I only dress up as Scarlett when she's not around. That's our established rule and I don't mind keeping the dressing private and out of sight from her and others.

Would I like to have a more open situation with my gorgeous and fun loving wife - you bet! I don't necessarily want to be able to dress up as Scarlett when she's around. As a matter of fact, I would probably feel really awkward about doing just that. However, I would like to have "The Talk" with her in detail and have her ask me as many questions about the cross dressing side of my life which has been there in one way or another since I was a young boy which is when most of us cross dressers started wearing certain articles of women's clothing.

I lightly hinted toward having "The Talk" over the past year or so on a very rare occasion with a response of "I'd rather not talk about it". So I doubt "The Talk" will never ever happen and I'm OK with that as well and don't plan on bringing up the subject again unless she does! I think she would be so much more accepting of my cross dressing if we were able to talk open about it and share the details as to when it started, why it started, and why I continue with it to this day. But if the talk will never happen, I'm really OK with it. I just thought if we had a good long conversation about it with me using my total honesty and sense of humor, all would be a bit more accepting with her. I still would want to keep the dressing as Scarlett private and out of sight from her but just have her have a better understanding of why I do it and how it in no way affects my unending love and appreciation of her.

You have probably read in a couple of my other posts that if it came between keeping my cross dressing going or my marriage going, it would be a no brainer and the cross dressing would have to go. But for now, all is well with the cross dressing as long as I keep it private and in a DADT mode. I do know if she ever comes home from work and catches me again in full up Scarlett mode which has happened only once before, I or she won't be packing our bags and heading for a separation or divorce court. She now calls me ahead of time if she's coming home from work way early so I have time to get back to full up husband mode before she gets home. It was really embarrassing the one and only time that happened and I got the silent treatment for a day and after that day went by and we went on our date night a couple of nights later, it was if nothing at all had happened and everything was back to normal. We had a super date night and made some wonderful love that night after the dinner and a movie and the CD subject never came up that night.

That's it for now Teresa, which is probably way too much. By the way, I had no plans of writing this long prose to you. I planned on just sending the first three short sentences and leaving off right there. But I just started writing and couldn't stop and knew you would probably have some sort of accepting response to what I've written here.

Thanks for reading girl friend and have a wonderful rest of the week! XOXOXO Scarlett :love:

[Teresa]

Scarlett,
Thanks for that, I know you show your birthdate in your profile but not your age.

I thought that at my age all this would be dying down instead it is growing stronger . I'm fully aware of your circumstances because I've lived them for a long time, now I know myself and what it means and discovering it's for life, the situation had to change, to have someone control your life and possibly continue for the rest of my life became unthinkable , at some point you know it's got to be totally out in the open to be able to come to terms with it. I have no regrets, OK I'm now saying my CDing perhaps comes before my marriage, but I'm afraid the strength of the inner feeling is greater than the the feelings of keeping my marriage together knowing it is never going to improve .I do believe both of us will be happier , the road we are on at the moment is becoming more unhappy. The decision is for the both of us and not a selfish act on my behalf, I'm trying to consider everyone in our situation.

Don't worry about long replies, it's good to see a member prepared to sit down and give a full account of their story , both of us are contributing something which might just help others, isn't that what the forum is mostly about ?

[LeannS]

Teresa
I am sorry to hear about you and your wife but I do understand oh I really do.

take care of you

Leann

[Alice B]

My relationship with my wife started at acceptance, with out any participation. A step above the minimum. IT has now (over 12 years) gone to my being able ti dress at home when I have the urge, go out dressed and some light kidding and conversation about dressing. We can comment on outfits we see in adds and on TV and side comments on items that she said might look good on me. But, she still prefers to not see me dressed to any extended time. All in all a pretty good relationship. As I have said before, it is all based upon honest conversation and a strong marriage.

[Micki_Finn]

I don't know that there's really a lot of advice to give here. Your wife has set a hard limit with regards to your dressing and isn't budging. All you can do is continue to diligently follow "the rules" and build up the trust. Maybe eventually she will open up, but you can't force it.

[char GG]

CDtraveler,
It seems like you have done everything that was expected after you came out to your SO. I guess I am wondering what there is to talk about? She knows that you dress, most likely - when you dress, you have adhered to the boundaries, she loves you, neither of you want to expose your young children to this side of you AND you've been to counseling. You are the man for her when she needs you. So what is the problem? Do you want to go further? What do you want to share with her? She apparently did not know when she met you about your dressing so not talking about it may be her way of coping with something that was sprung on her after you were already in a relationship. Maybe by not talking about it, makes it seem like "the old days" prior to knowing about something about you that she would not have chose.

Since I don't know either of you, this is just speculation. I wish the best for both of you.

[ChristinaK]

Hi Traveler,

I too feel your pain. I have found that the more I talk about it, the more she pushes back. Tread lightly. You're in a DADT relationship. That means no talking. It is painful to keep quiet about such an important part of you and, like me, it would help your feelings toward your wife and draw you closer to her. But, for her, it would cause pain, anguish and push her away.

Just 2 days ago, I too brought up the ugly CD issue. Bad idea. It just caused her anguish and I too as she is so passionate about her hatred toward Christina.

So, for many of us, it's a lonely part of us and we have to focus on our SOs feelings and not ours if we want peace a d harmony in our relationships. I'm not one to talk as I've talked way too much sometimes.

Teresa, I'm so sorry it didn't work out for you. But, you are correct in that if we feel the need to take it farther than our wives can tolerate, we must take care of ourselves first and not sacrifice our well being to remain in a relationship that only brings bad feelings. Sounds like you're doing okay with it and I hope the best for you.