Not Going Away. She can't.

[IleneD]

280300

Forum Sisters,

For the souls who know me on this forum, thank you.
I've had the worst week of my life; certainly the worst week of coming to grips with my inner woman and my crossdressing. I've been away for a while, and for good reason. Please understand, friends.

The acceptance battle was a cause I was gradually losing since coming out a year ago. There was, at first, an initial show of support; or something like it. It wasn't genuine and eventually showed itself to be hollow.

Our “discussions” on my crossdressing and feelings about it rarely ended well. There was name calling and derision the likes of which we’d not seen in 40 yrs of being together. The latest fight was bad; very bad. Things came out that I had no idea hovered inside her.

I had just experienced over a month of “being Ilene”. My wife was gone to take care of our granddaughter on the east coast. I had many weeks to myself to dress how I wanted and when I wanted. Except for times when I had outside obligations, I pretty much lived full time as Ilene for those weeks; including an air travel trip to attend my uncle’s funeral. It was a beautiful experience, and when my wife returned in mid-July I was stoked and full of Ilene.

I could tell almost from her first days home that she came back with a bad attitude regarding my crossdressing; or any LGBT or transgender issues for that matter. I began to pick up snide & derogatory comments when such issues popped up on the radio/TV; and they were usually voiced as an indirect criticism of me.

The wife suddenly became a champion of “choice”; i.e. that this dressing-up thing (or any aberrant behavior) was simply a matter of choice. The growing implication was clear. I could make a conscious CHOICE to stop dressing up, and just don’t do it.
This was coming out of her after she spent over 50 yrs as a cigarette smoker. Early this year she became dreadfully ill with respiratory problems. During the period when it was literally impossible to smoke, she broke her addiction (with a shitload of help and understand from me, BTW). She became zealot against addiction in her conversion.
And now…. she was making the case that CD was like a drug, and addictive. I was an addict.

This came out during the latest knock-down/drag out. I was an addict. I could voluntarily and consciously give up this CD silliness. My CD was embarrassing for her and the family (who does not know).

There was her reminder from a year ago. “This ( the news of coming out) changed everything forever. Our marriage relationship will never be the same.” This was stated at the outset, and she never changed her mind on that. I had no clue as to how far it could go.

The worst thing that I learned from the argument was that “There’s no such thing as unconditional love. There’s always conditions.” After 40 yrs, I was absolutely devastated by that.

The main points that I took away: [ and raise your hand if you've ever heard any of these yourself];

- There is no such thing as unconditional love. There are always conditions.
- You have ruined my life (hers’) with this crossdressing. Coming out last July permanently changed everything forever. Our relationship would never be same.
- The world is upside down now. Cops are criminals. War is peace. Men wanting to be women. “This is just bizarre!”; as thoughI was being influenced or pushed by pop culture to express my inner woman.
- She doesn’t want to be married to a woman (period).
- I discovered she had been lurking around the crossdressers.com website I frequent for blogs, education and “support”. “You can turn to your little queer buddies on your blog site where they all talk about their supportive “S.O.’s”; with an extra contemptuous emphasis on the term S.O. She added that "it ain't happening with this S.O."

After a couple sleepless nights, I made the decision to put away Ilene. She didn’t say I had to dispose of Ilene, but the message was clear. Our marriage and life could not go on with Ilene in consideration.

The Wife was gone from the house taking a friend to lunch. I was home alone with no car. The truck was still in the shop. Normally it would be a wondrous afternoon of dressing as Ilene. But today was different.

I found myself literally sobbing as I plucked my lady clothes from the closet. Each item lovingly folded and placed in an old suitcase. The light blue blouse I favored recently. Sob. The brown print skirt and white blouse I wore traveling. Weep. When I packed my spirit dress, Lady Blue, I had to stop. I bawled and got it out of my system.
I couldn’t believe myself; a grown man crying over dresses. To outsider or casual observer I could understand how strange it must have appeared. Was something wrong with me?

All of it got put away in the old, smelly flowered suitcase we somehow acquired from relatives. I think it was Mom’s once. The makeup kit. My wigs. The shoes; everything including panties and bra. No vestiges of Ilene would be around the house to remind me.

Grief followed.
I began to “mourn” for Ilene. I could tell it was grief because it arose suddenly in swells like grieving for a lost parent or loved one. It grew pretty deep, and I found myself a spontaneously sobbing mess throughout the next day, and trying very carefully to hide my tears. I was despondent. I grieved for myself and my lost inner woman.

I know this is the long version. God,I thank you all for being able to get it off my chest. This is cathartic. But, I'm literally flying without a safety net here. I have no one. Can't confide in the wife now. Can't talk to my son. Don't have any friends locally that I can truly trust to understand Ilene. And all my good friends are old squadron mates who also wouldn't be approachable (at this time). I'm absolutely despondent about this, and have no idea of where I'm going now with this.

I need time. Right now, I think I will seek professional help; maybe a good gender therapist. I'm not going away from the Forum. I probably need it more than ever now.
v/r
Ilene

[Tracy Irving]

Good Luck. We are here for you.

[Teresa]

Ilene,
WE all know there is no going back, the fact it's all packed away isn't going to change your wife's opinion. You know counselling wil only reinforce your feelings , I've been there and done all this.

I don't know if you have read my thread in the Loved Ones section ," Finally had the conversation ". We have come to the separation stage , it is going OK we both know we need the space, my wife can't honestly live with my CDing and I can't honestly live without it. We are both happier knowing it's is going to happen . Our children know the situation and we have both said we will be there for them, I will move a few miles away , I can have my own friends as she can.

This is the second time of going through this and this time it's going to happen, neither of us can go through the cycle again. If it comes to this point with you , you may find she wil sit back and carefully think what she is losing , we came up with compromises the first time, but they are short lived and become more one sided . We have done our bit as husband, father and grandfather, now I have to live the Teresa side of me for my own sake , it's not selfish but just being realistic when we know this part of us is a real as the guy was .

All my thoughts are with you, if it helps please PM me if you want to chat more .

[Becky Blue]

So sad Ilene, my heart goes out to you xxx... I hope you can find a compromise somehow that allows you to be yourself when you need to. I think seeing someone is a very good idea... best of luck xx

[bridget thronton]

Sorry things seem so dark right now - you are always welcome to share here

[jennifer0918]

Sorry to hear this Ilene we are all here for you.

[Persephone]

Very sorry to read your post Ilene. Will hold you in my thoughts and prayers.
Hugs,
Persephone.

[SaraLin]

Ilene,

I wish you all the best. You have chosen to sacrifice a large part of yourself for your wife. That shows a just how much love you have for her.

Sadly, I suspect that she won't appreciate your sacrifice. I'm afraid that rather than saying "oh, my darling, you did that for me? Oh, I love you so much. we can make it work somehow", she'll still hold it against you (forever), continue to make snide remarks and use the fact that you dress (dressed) against you whenever you do ANYthing to displease her. If/when you slip, I fear that she'll blow up even worse than before. She has learned how to get her way, and for her being right is more important than being happy. Even if you don't slip, I suspect that you'll find that any time you have alone is going to be met with suspicion and accusations.

I hope for your sake that I'm wrong.

Good luck,
Sara

[alwayshave]

Ilene, I very sorry that you're in this position. I can only pray that you get sometime to yourself where you can be yourself.

[suit]

from the point of view of someone who has never had successful relationship
I think if she gets any nastier about it...I'd put nicotine in her food....randomly...like some kind of fuscia fog that blindsides her opinionated ass and you can be totally unsympathetic, "it' a choice" the down side could be, a smoker that dies of small cell lung cancer.....to me it looks more like her decision set like a concrete block (28 days to 90 % strength) while away,but was pretty well formed before , and this is start of the war to cleave herself from you. I would find who is her go to confordount about this and get a lawyer to sue her for espionage of your marriage, be it a priest or her hair dresser. if it is war ,do not get out flanked. think of the losers in any war ...most lost everything down to their dirty worn out panties & most of there self confidence.

[Krea]

Hi Ilene,
I am really sorry to read that things are going badly for you at home. As a newish member i cannot really offer any useful advice, but i want to wish you the best from here and hope that your situation can somehow change and improve over time.
It's good to know that you will still be here on the forum for support & encouragement from us all. I remember that you were one of the first to post on my intro thread, a really kind message which made me feel welcome here and i enjoy your regular contributions. Hopefully this forum will provide you with the same reassurance now. Good luck and keep us updated. Nic :hugs:

[LaurenS]

Anytime you need to vent or talk, we will be here. Personal relationships are, well, "personal", so it would be hard for me to truly understand.

Having said that, her petty insults and closed mindedness is not a healthy attitude for either of you. The "cops are criminals" quote is especially intriguing to me in an anthropological and sociological sort of way.

Many, many people these days are projecting their ignorance and insecurities to receive some comfort in these days of uncertainty. Until they realize that and accept it, they cannot change their minds. It's simply easier to only surround yourself with people of like mind, and her way of doing that is by childishly coercing you to conform. (It's probably the only tool in her toolbox, so don't blame her)

Sometimes you just HAVE to look out for number 1. If not you, who?

Far too often, far too many people live a life that is not theirs.

[Elizabeth G]

Hi Ilene,

I'm sorry to hear that you're going through such hard times. Add had been said we're here for you. I'm slowly working through these issues with my wife and I know it's not easy. I'm lucky so far. She had been going with me to a great gender therapist and it has been very helpful. I wish you the best of luck and please feel free to reach out when you need a sympathetic ear.

Elizabeth

[Rhonda Darling]

Find a good LGBT friendly divorce lawyer and put them on retainer -- ready to help you the moment things go south. If you don't ever need them, fine -- but be ready.

Rhonda

[BrendaPDX]

Ilene,
We are all here for you, we always will be. I can't imagine your grief. Stay strong we/I will have good thoughts and hope you make it through this. Take care, Brenda

[ginapoodle]

Ilene,

Peace, blessings, healing, time, be Authentic.

[IleneD]

Teresa,
Thank you, dear.
I've watched your own journey over the last year, and (as you state) the gradual decline of your own marriage relationship. I had been heart breaking but your own courage and resolve through it appears remarkable. I don't know how you've gotten through to this point.

I've thought of leaving too, but I'm trying here. Trying to get things normalized or right, and not at the point of giving up.
I love this woman with all my being. We've been a great team for 4 decades (40 th anniversary was this weekend.... oh, you should have been at THAT celebration). For all those Navy years, she took care of the home and kids while I was away at sea for months. We survived 4 hurricanes,2 typhoons, an armed robbery, and a couple other life & death situations together. We've been great lovers (until the last7-8 since her Mother passed; a sexless marriage). I literally owe her my life in so many ways. I'd die for this person. That is why the harsh tone of her rejection diatribe stings.

Thanks, Teresa. If it means anything you are an example of one of the girls on the forum from whom I have learned. Your story and your posts have clearly demonstrated the joys and actual pitfalls of a CD life. I shall keep you also in my prayers.
Nothing good is ever easy.

[ClosetED]

Ilene, sorry to hear about your wife. I have a similar situation going - I was overjoyed when she went from DADT to offering to have me model clothes she bought for me and offering to have my legs waxed, to seeing pictures of me dressed and makeup. Then she returned to the silent treatment and I stayed away from Forum and no dressing at all hoping she would return to acceptance. She did not and I told her I needed a weekend to dress and now no sex since I dared to act on her prior offer of hairless legs.
I looked at my pictures to get me thru. Your wife may be different and she might come around. But at least you can say you tried to reduce it to a level she finds tolerable. Marriage is a compromise. Maybe she still has fears that both hearing from a therapist might help.
But we are here for you.
Hugs, Ellen

[Crystal 42]

Ilene, so sorry to hear this. My heart goes out to you. :hugs:
Crystal x

[Dana44]

Sorry to hear this Ilene, One thing I did while I was working. I said I was a girl and even though I was dressed as a male i was still a girl and got through the day okay. I did study what they did and in mind and spirit was with them. So don't put her away and find solace and if she don't really respond what you are going through. that would be bad.

[Laura912]

Ilene, you are right to seek counseling and hope that it will become a joint session. Hopefully your wife will earn the difference between addictive behavior and the hard wiring in our brains that leads to cross dressing and often to transition. I defie anyone to prove that at 6, I became "addicted" to this. Your prognosis for a continued marriage is not good without a major course change.

[Alice Torn]

Stunning photo!!! have address like that, and pearls, too. Love your style! I am very sorry and saddened by what has happened to you recently. This is so tough! I have not been married, nor had an SO, but have been told off by women who say i must quit, period. I do not know what to tell you, but feel free to vent on here anytime. I would cry and grieve also, if i had to part with my lovely dresses, shoes, wigs, tops, and skirts, and hose. i have no one to talk to about,it here, either. I hope you find a good therapist. It is a very lonely road for some of us, on here. I also see, that you may be better off, separating, for a time, then see if she is nicer about being together again, for your sanity's sake. I peaves me, when wives blast husbands for dressing, when women can wear anything they want. Huge unfair toxic double standards.

[ReineD]

Grief followed.
I began to “mourn” for Ilene. I could tell it was grief because it arose suddenly in swells like grieving for a lost parent or loved one. It grew pretty deep, and I found myself a spontaneously sobbing mess throughout the next day, and trying very carefully to hide my tears. I was despondent. I grieved for myself and my lost inner woman

Maybe you shouldn't hide your tears.

You speak of an inner woman, yet you describe clothing in your post. Do the clothes help you connect to your inner woman, or is it really just about the clothes.

If the clothes do help you connect to an inner femininity, please know that you can do so without the clothes, by allowing yourself to be vulnerable enough to show your grief. I'm a GG. I don't need to wear feminine clothing to be in touch with myself, in fact, I dress like millions of other GGs in blue jeans and Tshirts and I seldom wear makeup. But, I do not stoically hide my grief or other feelings from my loved ones. Maybe you could do the same.

[Pat]

Absolutely find a therapist. A commonly heard statement about transition is "I reached the point of having to transition or die." It sounds like you're being pushed hard and I'd hate for you to make the wrong choice. I can't (and don't) speak to marriage issues -- I actually count myself blessed that my marriage ended (for unrelated reasons) before I found the need to come out. But I can say that when you start needing to be your authentic self there's usually small chance of turning back. Having made the leap, I can look back on my earlier life and very comfortably say I don't miss any part of it and I am significantly happier day-to-day now. I'm not saying that transition is for you, I'm just saying it would be wise to investigate it with an experienced therapist to see if it's the path you need to take. Good Luck. :hugs:

[Alice Torn]

Laauren S. Very good post, well said. I have struggles to live my own life, and be myself, all my life, Toxic family of origin issues.

[DIANEF]

Ilene, I've just read your story, so very sad. I really hope things work out
Diane x

[rebecca34]

Ilene, I'm sorry honey but I don't have anything useful to add except to say you aren't alone; there's a whole bunch of us here that you can come to for help, advice, or just to rage and rant if you need to.

Hugs,
xx Becca xx

[RADER]

Ilene;
I cried as I read your story. I pray that your SO can find some guidance and see that
you are still you no mater what you are wearing. A good councilor might help.
Good luck.
Rader

[Teresa]

Ilene,
We will never forget the good times, no one can take that away, but it comes to a point where the pain of continual comments breaks down the residual love,the longer it's allowed to go on the more damage is done. I still want to support my children and at the moment we are all OK about the decision, I don't want to sour the relationship we still have, and the continual comments are going to do that.

At times I do feel guilty after 43 years of marriage, and my wife coming up to her retirement and facing it alone. We still intend to do things together and we may enjoy it more knowing there's not the same pressure.

She is still trying to implement DADT when we live apart, but I just shake my head and smile because there is nothing she can do about my CDing after we make our moves.

I do understand your comment saying you would die for her ! I've accepted that has changed and so has she , and there is a life beyond my wife now, she may well find someone else, and perhaps I will . To be truthful I'm looking forward to another chapter in my life, but the previous chapters won't be forgotten.

I'm not trying to persuade you to take my path, but it's maybe the correct one to take when you consider which way your life is going to go now, even if you stop dressing the damage is done. You aren't the same man she once knew, you have to be honest and admit that to yourself and to her.
I know I can't go back now , Teresa wasn't a reality because she was being totally denied and suppressed , discovering I was born with this trait and accepting I have GD and AGP ,I have to live it for peace of mind and it's never going to happen under the same roof as my wife .

[Meghan4now]

Ilene

Uhgh! Tough position, and I don't have a lot of room to talk. Or great advice. If I did, I'd write a book and make a million dollars.

However, it strikes me that if somehow, non-confrontationally, she could understand Choice better, maybe she could find better acceprance. After all, she too has choice. According to her logic, she could just choose to accept you, she could just choose to be in a "lesbian" relationship. One thing is certain, SHE CAN choose to not be nasty, or angry, or spiteful. That sword swings both ways. If she is embarrased, that is based on her own thoughts, and has little to do with the actual facts.

As far as what you OWE her, don't go there. Pretty sure that you've provided her with lots of love, support, and means to live a life as well. Marriage is not a 50/50, it's 80/80. If she is so willing to throw it all away, she must not have valued it highly to begin with.

I get it, she's mad and hurt and really can't see past herself right now. Maybe she never will. But at some point, that's her choice. Not that it's the only barometer, but what do YOU want? Ask her if your feelings are even important to her.

[Maria 60]

Being here we read about the good and the bad, of course we love to read about the good and hate to hear about the bad. For myself I almost try to pretend there is no bad, but it's there, this is more heart felt for me because when I post you always have great advice for me and always showing me a different side to my problems. This almost feels to close to home for me and I'm feeling your pain and hope you can find the strength and confidence to keep your head above water and swim threw this. From the bottom of my heart I hope you can get threw this strong and please don't leave us in the dark and keep us up to date. I wish you well, and from our past you seem like a very strong minded person and I'm sure you will be OK.

[CynthiaD]

I'd recommend seeing a marriage counselor if your wife is willing. Sometimes people harbor feelings for years waiting for an excuse to act on them. It sounds like your crossdressing was a trigger that made it "all right" to start letting some long-felt feelings out. If this is the case, you need to get at the root of the problem, and a marriage counselor could help. I don't think that crossdressing is your real problem.

[Sometimes Steffi]

Ilene

You're in a really tough position. I really feel for you.

My wife and I had some very intense "discussions". The worst thing she ever said to me was, "Why didn't you tell me before we got married. If I had known before we got married, I might not have married you." We just celebrated our 39th anniversary. I think I've been a very responsible husband and father. Just a couple of nights ago, we had a big fight, not at all related to CDing. Her parting comment, in anger, "I've put up with all these lies and deceptions [about crossdressing]" convinced me that her hatred for my CDing will never go away. It will always be like a volcano, just beneath the surface ready to explode.

For a couple of years I thought she would drop the divorce word any day. I was getting grief on many fronts not crossdressing related, and getting extreme grief about crossdressing. Several times I even looked for an apartment for one. I had a couple of friends offer me a place to stay. Ultimately, I decided that if I got an ultimatum to choose her or the crossdressing that she might be surprised at my answer.

So, in a poker sense, I called her bet. She didn't and still doesn't know what my "hole card" is. The fact that I would willingly accept a trial separation as a test for a divorce. After a few months of having girl time whenever I felt like it, I didn't expect that I'd return to CD jail. So either she would have to come around, or we'd permanently split. It never got that far, and we've devolved into a DADT, and I still go out a couple times a month. It works for us most of the time. But I'm always walking on eggshells, especially when she wants to talk.

I've tried the sneaking around bit. When I went out en femme, I'd tell my wife that I was going out with the guys, which was kind of true. But, the lying was killing me.

So, like Teresa and I, you'll have to decide on either Ilene or you wife, lay your card on the table and hope your wife is bluffing.

[Teri Ray]

Ilene,

Sorry to hear of your issue. I hope for you and your wife there is a path that meets both your needs. This is never easy but my fondest hope is that there is some common ground where you and your wife can find compromise. I am betting that your wife found you to be a great person before she and you talked about your crossdressing. You are likely that same good person and her knowing your desire to crossdress cannot change that perception or knowledge. Good people are good people queer, straight or otherwise. The desire to crossdress, which has likely has always been a part of you, did not change the person who you were or are currently. You are who you are and always were. The new knowledge of your desire to crossdress did not change who you are.

I am hoping for a path for you and your wife to discuss your desires and that you can find the common ground to mutual acceptance.

God bless you shipmate, and best wishes to you and your wife to find a path through this maze of love and compromise.

If you both can survive a full navy career you can figure this out as well. I am sure.

Best wishes

Teri

[Tracii G]

Sorry to read all that Ilene but do what you have to do.
Your wife is pretty much showing you no respect and that is sad.
Turn into a husband that does no cooking ,cleaning ,grocery shopping etc. She wants a man well give her one be a complete asshole and drink beer all day and bitch at her for not having your dinner on the table at 5:00 pm sharp.
If she asks you to go to the grocery and pick something up say no thats womans work I don't do that.

[OCCarly]

Hi Ilene. The fact that you grieved over losing your female self is indicative that cross dressing is far more than just a hobby for you. You need to see a gender therapist. My efforts to suppress my female self led to a very deep inner conflict, which manifested itself as physical panic attacks -- chest pains that originated in my esophagus, which often reached my heart and triggered ectopic heartbeats and heart arrhythmias. Very scary stuff. I managed on beta blockers for ten years without knowing what was causing it (thought it was my job). I limited my "fem side" to wearing speedos in my swimming pool. Then I got squamous cell skin cancer, and had to stop sun tanning a bikini line on my lower body.

That was when I went through a grieving process and connected the gender thing with the panic thing. A year later I was in gender therapy. very rapidly got diagnosed as transgender. Now after a year on hormones I am almost full time, and no more panic attacks. My wife has been slow to accept, but we have progressed to the point where she is starting to help me come out to her closest friends.

I cannot say how things will go with your wife, but I can tell you that Ilene is such an important part of you that you need to see a therapist in order to safeguard your mental health for sure, and maybe your physical health as well.

Hugs, Carly

[Jodie_Lynn]

Ilene my heart grieves for you. Reading your words there were tears flowing from my eyes. Tears for you, and for me, for I 'saw' and 'heard' the words my ex-wife spoke to me. The same accusations, remarks & comments.

Except, they were followed by the words "I want a divorce". No discussion, no compromise, no negotiation. She had made up her mind, and there was no changing it. This, after a year and a half of a "Jodie-free" environment. Apparently, even though I was NOT dressing, the fact that I visited this and other similar forums was 'too much'.

I am now divorced, on my own, and actually, happier! Jodie has blossomed, and continues to grow and become a larger part of my life.

My thoughts go to you Ilene, sending you love, support, and courage to face the road ahead. Godspeed and good luck sister!

[LisaKarenAZ]

Ilene,
Although everyone's situation is different, your story rings with so many similarities to the early days with my wife, after she found my things. At first, I thought that divorce was imminent, yet she stayed with me, even with the vitriol that she was sharing with me. The anger and aggression directed toward me sounds very similar to what you have described. Over the years, her "hatred" toward Lisa began to wane, once she became more understanding that this was a part of me that I did not choose to have. As she learned that this was not going to go away, she also realized that I was actually a better person when I was "in touch with my femininity".

My wife's health issues began shortly after she found out about Lisa (12 years ago), but didn't progress into something life threatening until about 4 years ago. She was diagnosed with another autoimmune disease, had her thyroid removed, and was diagnosed with thyroid cancer after the pathology report came back. The past 4 years have been full of struggles to recover from the surgery and follow up radiation therapy. I have been her caregiver throughout this time, and it has been this time that she has become accepting of Lisa, for the most part. There are still things she doesn't want to see, and compromises she has asked me for, but has actually begin to nurture this aspect of my being.

Our marriage was predicated on our being friends for close to 6 years before we broke the ice and started dating. We have been through the highs and lows during our time together, and have experienced our fair share of hardships together. We have always had a strong bond, even if we didn't have a strong marriage all the years. I will say, though, that the current state of our marriage is that we are the best that we have ever been. We are strong enough together to have people ask us what our secret is. Like you, I would die for this woman, and would be dead without her by my side all of these years.

As it is independent to each and everyone as to their belief systems are, moral compass directions, attitude, and personality, we are all still capable of changing. There is always hope that someone can change their beliefs. There are obviously no guarantees, but the possibility that your wife could change over time. You mentioned a number of life altering things that she has experienced that could always skew someone's thought process.

Prepare for the worse, hope for the best, and always put honesty at the forefront of your communications. Marriage is a dance of compromises, but they can't always be one way. You can't give up yourself, just simply because she's unhappy. I tried, and was almost not here to type this today because of it. Remember that you both deserve to be happy, and each needs to give something for things to work. Ask the question of "are we willing to throw away all of our history over this?".

Try a weekend away together at a nice spa/resort, with no mention of Ilene, or any other life stressors. Just spend the time together like you did when you first started dating.

I wish you the best of luck, and hope that the two of you are able to work things out.

[Sarah Louise]

Ilene, really sorry to hear about this. I hope things work out for you. Sometimes members of this site have to choose their marriage over their dressing which is sad. Some come back to it after a time. Some, we don't hear from again. Who knows if they succeed? The general concenscious is they won't but who really knows?

Although your wife has turned spiteful and angry, which I don't condone, I do understand that many don't like it and try and put a stop to it. She didn't sign up to this after all. You've decided to choose your marriage over your dressing which is commendable. It won't be easy and I wish you well. Hopefully in time you'll come to some compromise.

[Teresa]

Steffi,
I went through all this once, we settled on compromises and her version of DADT . Over time the compromises become more one sided , they basically want us to stop . Sadly my Cding goes right back to childhood, in fact I was born with the trait, by 8-9 years old it was set in stone , and now I finally realise it is a very powerful force inside some of us, and all the versions of DADT , all the comments that can be thrown at me can't stop the inner need.
I was honest with my wife this time and stated neither of us can live with this destructive cycle . Am I putting my CDing before my marriage ? No I believe I'm not but my wife chooses to , she is prepared to destroy part of my life to comply with her wishes , at some point you have to say this isn't right. I'm not the person she married for more than one reason and one of them is she's destroying a part of me and making me unhappy and bad tempered,. If there is the spark of love still remaining then keeping that intact means living apart. This is no bluff on my part , my wife knows this, I have selected areas where I could live and suitable properties in those areas .

[Jeri Ann]

Hey Ilene,

As you know your situation is very similar to mine. You and I have communicated in the past by pm and email and normally I would respond that way. However, there are so many people out there that are dealing with this same issue and might benefit from something that is said on the open forum.

First of all, let’s deal with your gender issues. You use the term crossdresser or cd a lot. Certainly, if you put women’s clothes on a male body, you are crossdressing. But, your gender issues, as you have communicated to me, are much deeper than cding. Your description of your weeks of expressing yourself when your wife was away involves more than getting a kick out of wearing women’s clothes or being enthralled by your appearance when transformed from male to female.

The fact that you grieved when putting away the girl stuff indicates that you are actually grieving the loss of opportunity to live authentically and finally be at peace with yourself. Did you grieve the loss of your male self when feminizing yourself? The clothes for you are just a necessity in order to be your natural self.

It is important for you to know, and keep in mind, that your gender issues are not under your control and not your fault. Modern medicine now considers it a medical condition. Quite simply it means that a female brain develops in a male body. You absolutely need to get involved with a good gender therapist.

Next is your relationship with your wife. My guess is she finds you disgusting. Mine did. My wife found out about my being transgendered twenty years ago. For two decades it was a malignant tumor that ate away at our relationship. “For better or worse and in sickness and health” had absolutely no meaning. Even after she understood that my condition is not my fault and it won’t go away she was totally intolerant. Oh, and by the way, family intolerance is the driving force behind the suicide attempts of 40% of transsexuals.

You say that you love your wife. I get that. I did too. You do need to exhaust all possibilities in order to avoid additional guilt. It does seem like the love in your relationship is one sided. In fact, it seems like you are trying to achieve only a level of pleasantness, devoid of persecution, by totally sacrificing yourself. You are trying to make her happy while destroying yourself. It could be that you are a success driven person and want to avoid failure at all cost. No matter how success driven you are, you cannot be successful at loving the family dog when it gets rabies.

Contemplated suicide? Me too. Several times I have studied the business end of a semiautomatic. It seems like such a simple solution. They clean up the mess, morn a little bit but you get relief from the struggle. I’m glad you reached out to the forum. It might save your life. Contacts with forum members saved mine. Thanks Lauri K and Kelly Marie.
So where do you go from here? I don’t know. There is not a simple or easy solution. I do know this, I have lost loved ones, status in the community, half of all assets and freedom to move about in my own little town. In short, my world has been turned upside down. But you know what? The underside of my world is looking better every day. I also have realized that I belong on this side.

Please know that I am not a therapist, doctor or a marriage counselor. Just someone who cares and knows what you are going through. Been there, still dealing with it. But, please also know that there is always hope. I didn’t believe there was. I couldn’t see it from where I was. Now I can.

You know how to contact me if you need to. Hang in there. Love you.

Jeri Ann

[Teresa]

Jeri Ann,
Your words resonate with me as well.
There is no turning the clock back, to how it was before, besides most of us couldn't live that way,as we often read on the forum.

I've been in the depths and thought ending my life is the easiest solution for all concerned. My near miss wasn't premeditated, I do know what it is like to be that desperate but have vowed never to go on that road again. Life is too short and I've almost found the light at the end of the tunnel. I know it won't be a bed of roses but the new friends I've made will give me the strength to see it through.

Ilene appears to fear the loss of all the friends she had, it has surprised me how accepting most of mine have been , I have to say joining a social group, is the best thing I did, it helped me find myself and gave me the confidence to be out and about.

I do admit my wife doesn't know all the facts, this is another reason why I decided separation had to happen , if and possibly when she does find out the whole balloon will go up again. We aren't children and yet we allow ourselves to treated as such , every aspect of our lives has to be explained away, we are given little or no space to have a private part of a life .

I totally agree that we aren't professionally trained or qualified to comment on TG issues. We are the source of the information they work with, they analyse us and then decide what is good or bad for us, but the important point is most of them haven't lived it , we have so who is more qualified to suggest ways with dealing with our situation ? We know how we feel inside they can only imagine it !

[Jeri Ann]

Hey Teresa,

My sister and my daughter made me pinky promise not to ever attempt to end it all. How about you and me? Want to pinky promise? Ilene?

By the way, where is UK? Is that in Texas? I don't think I have been through there. Lol

[Lana Mae]

Ilene, I cried when I read your post! I always looked up to you as an inspiration to me! I am so sorry this is happening! Please see a gender therapist for some close up help! We are always here for you, too! I have no advice to offer other than the above! My wife passed on before I actually realized the truth about all of this! Best wishes, prayers and love! Special hugs! Lana Mae

[IleneD]

Hey Teresa,

My sister and my daughter made me pinky promise not to ever attempt to end it all. How about you and me? Want to pinky promise? Ilene?

By the way, where is UK? Is that in Texas? I don't think I have been through there. Lol

NEVER. One thing about Ilene. She's a survivor with grit. Thanks Jeri Ann. You've received the endorsements of many forum members here for your experience and wisdom. I appreciate it.

- - - Updated - - -

Jeri
As stated below you are a font to wisdom and advice; all great.
We've had a couple more days of heated emotional discussions but they're becoming less confrontational. We had a 40th wedding anniversary in the middle of all of this too. Those anniversary days, I think, helped both of us to STOP, and consider the long wonderful trail we've been on together; maybe put things into a perspective.

She is a strong woman, very tough. I've always liked that about her and even cultivated it with her. I knew she had to be tough and self-reliant for the long periods I would be deployed. She knows what she likes and believes, and it's difficult to move her off that spot.
HOWEVER.... (a bit of light to shine), we've concluded with each other a desire to be together and see each other to the end of our days. In assessing our goals as a couple, we value each other. Too much invested in each other to give up. One of her other expressed fears during all this was that I was going to LEAVE her. I absolutely do not want that. But I also don't want to live in TG Hell for the next 25 yrs either. We are taking it one day, one week and one month at a time.

For you, Jeri, and all who have comforted me on this thread, God's blessings be upon you for you are doing Her work.

- - - Updated - - -

Sarah,
You are a star, darling.
I am not trying to characterize anything as spiteful. It is angry; and looking at it from her perspective and how my CD/TG landed on her like a nuclear bomb a year ago,.... I get it. I'd probably have fear and loathing too if the situation were reversed. I'm trying to give everyone a wide berth, enough for me to understand the diversity of opinions. You are right. She didn't sign up for this (quite the opposite).

Thanks for your show of love and concern.

[natalie_cheryl]

I'm really sad to hear all of this. You must feel almost betrayed by the sudden change of attitude in someone you've been devoted to for so long. I hope things get better Ilene I really do. Just remember we are all here to support each other.

[Charlotte Ann]

Truly sorry this breaks my heart every time I hear a story like this. I myself have never understood how this happens but I find the older I get the less I accually know . It is ok to be you and just because someone else is theathened by you does not give them a right to try to destroy you. Big hug
C

[Teresa]

Jeri,
I'm with you on that promise, besides I have so many lovely clothes now and somewhere to go and wear them !

Now if you're looking for the UK, take a good look to the right and you'll see the chunk of land that fell off the rest of Europe, funny how we can't wait to do it again !!

Ilene,
No she didn't sign up for it but she could be a little more understanding . We were discussing this point and we estimate that about 25% of the members of our social group are accompanied by their partners, they do it willingly and genuinely enjoy it. So it can and does happen, some GGs say they love their partners all the more for sharing their dressing . I just couldn't take anymore the feeling of being unloved and rejected, looking back those twenty years it should have been when we called it a day, the damage was done when I first came out but nearly ending my own life meant I had something to fight for , if I had walked away at that point I might not be here now .

[Bobbi46]

So much advice and all of good solid advice I have to say, my stance on this would be to show that in fact you are the strongest out of the two of you. You must stand up for yourself and stand your ground, your marriage may go down the pan but I feel that that is what will happen from what I read in your post and the way your wife treats you.
Its no good putting Ilene away in a box just to save a situation, Ilene will always be there wanting to get out of the box my advice is do not put Ilene in the box she is what you need and want out of life. Be yourself but be strong with it.

[IleneD]

Natalie;
Thanks for your kindness.
Betrayed isn't quite right. Surprised or disappointed perhaps.
I've read the "coming out" accounts of countless forum sisters. It is always a tricky affair, especially unveiling your inner self to people who have known you for a long time. Those people, including the wife, knew me as something entirely different from ILENE. And I very much understand how people may feel I had been less than honest in concealing my "issues". It's not a matter of lying or deceiving to hide crossdressing, it just was never a reasonable option to come out in a world that doesn't get it.

In a very real sense, "I get it" from the perspective of a spouse, sibling or friend who is ambushed by the news. In the back of my mind I hoped and prayed for the best; at least a response that didn't threaten the relationship. It is always a crap shoot on how specific loved ones may receive the news. And since I am the one changing the situation, I also have to responsibly accept that too have to be understanding (of their perspective).

THINGS ARE GOING TO GET BETTER. I believe this with all my heart. In my most dire situations The Lord has worked, and often worked through Ilene my inner woman [read my signature line] to save the day. Things will improve because we both want it to improve. I won't store up or save any hurtful words to be used in the future. I want no conflict so I have no need for weapons in this case. My heart (and the wife's too) is fixed on a future together, as we've always been. We have a goal. I just need to find the safe path there.
It is in the Lord's hands, and She has never failed me yet.

[Aunt Kelly]

It is in the Lord's hands, and She has never failed me yet.
I knew there was a reason I like you, Ilene. :)

I am so glad to hear that things have taken a better turn. You truly did have us worried.

Keep in mind that the hurt being experienced by others is nothing more than an artifact of your transgender awakening. It is not something you've chosen. It is not your fault, and it is unfair for anyone, yourself included to make you feel as if it is. I could go on about how the condition is invisible to others and it's the treatment that is the choice, but you know all that. It is important that your wife not just understand that, but internalize it. Skilled intervention will help. Please get some. It will provide more than just education, it can provide perspective that is not yours and not hers. And coping skills. The pro's have been at this for a long time, and have figured out what works. Does it always work? Sadly, no, but it will be your best shot at keeping your 40 year marriage together.

You will be in my prayers.

Hugs,


Kelly

[IleneD]

Kelly;

First, thanks for reaching out. Your PM was cathartic and helpful in putting a lot of this incident and my situation into perspective.

WE are not out of the woods. The fundamentals and foundation has always been good in our relationship, and that's probably the only thing saving us both. Even though there's been a lot of hurt to go around, we've decided to step back a bit, take a breath and remember rediscover each other. This will take time. But at the very least, the car was stopped before plummeting over the precipice.
As for me......I'm taking at least a month "off", and seriously consider where I can or intend to go with my dysphoria. I hate that. It still smacks of a mental disease (dysphoria), and I am NOT mentally disordered.
AND.... I will continue to reach out to Sisters like you. I was personally overwhelmed by the PM, personal interest and show of support here. You and many others on this page have once again proven the value and utility of this website. Certainly, I'm not the first one you rescued from the edge.
Peace. I love you all.

[CarlaWestin]

Ilene, I believe that for many of us the feminine experience is more enriching and enlightening than anything we've ever experienced. As my retirement approaches I can't imagine spending it doing just the usual male pursuits as only my male self. I truly need to experience life as Carla also because that is a big part of who I am. She is me and also a person that I need to have in my life. I'm two or so years past the great reveal but I don't really give it any celebrity. My wife has gone through all the name calling and when she's pissed she refers to the proclivity as play baby stuff. For a week I did what Tracii suggested and played the male asshole routine complete with chauvinistic comments about her appearance. She swore that it was the alcohol doing it but, I had already quit drinking.

Unfortunately, you're going through an awful rough spot on this journey. Joint counseling would level the playing field quite a lot. I went with her to her counseling session one time. She's never mentioned it since and I think it's because a lot of truth that she didn't like came out.

I wish you all the best.

[IleneD]

...for many of us the feminine experience is more enriching and enlightening than anything we've ever experienced.

Funny you should say this, Carla.
One thing I brought up during the talks was that my crossdressing was an ENHANCEMENT; an ADDITION to me and my persona. It doesn't subtract anything from me, my talents, values, abilities, etc. IMO, this strange but beautiful aspect of me deepens my human experience; not to mention that it is personally liberating to not have to conceal the inner life I have.
Thanks, Carla. Wonderful.

[suit]

the rule books were written to sell to insurance co.s claimable events for maximum profitability of the phi cic o taroristicas (bugs bunny ceria 1968)
once you clear all the labels and get back to what you care about....ooh look a pebble ripple in the pond of life..( you don't want to eat the neighbors kids, you just like to ....)

[greeneyes]

Ilene,
I am so sorry, you have my sympathy and my prayers. Keep your head up, and remember there isn't anything wrong with you. So not let anyone tear you down.
((hugs))
Greeneyes

[Aunt Kelly]

One thing I brought up during the talks was that my crossdressing was an ENHANCEMENT; an ADDITION to me and my persona. It doesn't subtract anything from me, my talents, values, abilities, etc.
IMO, this strange but beautiful aspect of me deepens my human experience...
You may quote the GG wife of one of your "queer buddies" here as saying exactly that about me, as my fem self came more to the surface. :)

[Teresa]

Ilene,
Just to comment on Carla's point.
This is the problem I'm having with my wife, so much of me is being rejected as if it doesn't exist . It isn't a nice feeling a good part of you is withering away because you are trying to retain remnants of a marriage . At some point you have to be realistic and accept if it's gone it's gone , no going back !

[Mickitv]

What a great post Ilene. You are not alone and I know others feel the same way. We are here for you.

[IleneD]

Teresa,
You are a dear, and I know you have suffered for yourself.
And I hear you (and others) loud and clear.

People are not so disposable with me, and I truly do love this woman and she has loved me. I know there's a way to make it all work; to accommodate Ilene, and remain with the best friend I ever had. I know because I see vestiges of it in the lives of well-accepted forum members here.
Change can be painful for everyone. There were some ugly surprises in our heated discourse. I take into account that it's equally difficult for her as me.

[OCCarly]

You are kind, beautiful and wise, Ilene. Your wife is lucky to have you -- even if she does not realize it.

[CarlaWestin]

Ilene,
Just to comment on Carla's point.
This is the problem I'm having with my wife, so much of me is being rejected as if it doesn't exist . It isn't a nice feeling a good part of you is withering away because you are trying to retain remnants of a marriage . At some point you have to be realistic and accept if it's gone it's gone , no going back !

One of my wife's comments was that she couldn't talk to family about it and she financially couldn't even leave. I was puzzled why she thought I was some kind of different person. So, being the problem solver, I said that with half of the proceeds from selling the house and her monthly fixed income I could set her up with a budget if she wanted to leave. And that I didn't care who she told. It sort of ended that thought. Every now and then I get a comment about my play baby crap as she calls it but, I really just don't care. She only tries to make it an issue when she's mad about something. And I've learned over the years to just do the 'whatever' routine. You should never try to put a fire out with gasoline.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Ilene:love:, There isn't anything to add that hasn't already been said,

But you know that you have hundreds of friends that are always here for you
anytime to lend an ear.>Orchid.

[Teresa]

Carla,
We have already sorted the financial split out, the valuers are coming on Monday , we are continually being told in their leaflet drops that they have prospective buyers for our style of house so I'm waiting to see if they can put their money where their mouth is !

Sometime ago I told her I have no objections who she chooses to tell if it helps her deal with my Cding , I also stressed it was none of my business unless she does decide to tell me. The difference for me is her brother and sister know as do their married partners, and my children know as well as their partners . She also appears to be OK with who knows in my social group, I do talk about them to her, I don't think she realises how many of the public have seen me at the hotel where we hold the meetings .