Is it wrong to Judge

[alwayshave]

I was out at my favorite watering hole with my fiancee, which overlooks a street in DC with many bars, restaurants, and night clubs, so there are lots of people who walk along the street. It was early in the evening prior to dusk and a fellow cross dresser walks by in a long dark dress, wig, no makeup, five-o-clock shadow, sneakers (chucks), black socks and hairy legs.

I tend to dress very girly, always shave my face twice and wear makeup with beard cover and my legs have not had hair on them in more than a decade. So, I tend to project my dressing standards on other dresser. I'd like to be more than a man-in-a-dress. So was I wrong to judge this individuals choices?

Interestingly, the same women walked by again with her wife and maybe three year old child. This time my fiancee sees and is none to happy about this being exposed to the child. She is accepting of my dressing but did not like the exposure of the child to crossdressing. I told my fiancee that's the parents call. She disagreed.

So I was defending and judging at the same moment. I guess sometimes I confuse myself.

[StephanieM]

I suppose it's like most things, we tend to think our way of doing things is the right way and other ways are wrong, and I don't mean just CDing. So when we see someone doing something we tend to judge them whether we mean to or not.

As for the defense part, it's also natural to defend those like us when someone else criticizes them. I suppose it's like don't pick on my brother only I can do that.

[Nigella]

We all have standards that we try to live by, and occasionally we do judge others by them. This individual is expressing themselves in their own standard. They may just be a crossdresser and nothing more, the majority on this site are not only crossdressers but female emulators. I think that is where you were coming from.

As for the children, you are right it is the parents responsibilty to teach. IMHO they were right to show that it is OK to express yourself in any way you wish, of course as long as it is legal. In today's modern society children are exposed to more damaging images/situations than seeing a bearded man in a dress, if it had not been one of the adults with them, it could have been any other man in a dress walking down the street minding their own business.

Prior to my coming out our daughter saw a crossdresser in our local Woolworths. She simply stated "Dad that man is wearing a dress". My respons was, "Is there anything wrong with that?". A simple reply was "No dad". That was the end of the matter for her and she went on with the rest of her day.

[Lana Mae]

It is not nice to judge! They did not meet your standards but why would they have to live by your standards? I was the same as you either fully dress and be like a female or don't do it at all! NO! After being on this site and reading threads and just thinking about it! (Phili comes to mind!) There are those who do not meet our standards and guess what they do not have to! It is their journey not ours! I think Phili presents well and is a very good representation of those who do not wish to shave! We are doing to them like the outside muggle world is doing to all of us! Acceptance in our world is key to our growth!
(Phili if I spelled the name wrong-sorry!)
Hugs Lana Mae

[JenniferMBlack]

Yes it is wrong to judge.Maybe that is who she is maybe her comfort level, you don't know. Do you want others judging you when you go out? Or do you just want to be excepted?

I am interested in your fiances reaction to the child being exposed, as you implied you go out and she is accepting of your dressing. So she is ok with ither poeples children being exposed but not the crissdressers?

[Nigella]

.. It is their journey not ours! We are doing to them like the outside muggle world is doing to all of us! Acceptance in our world is key to our growth!

Hugs Lana Mae
280589 ppppppp

[Jean 103]

Man in a dress is the question? Where do you draw the line, or do you? The look is not for me, but if this is you, I will support you. As I have said I have met two persons dressed this way , well men in skirts. Then there is fashion. This what I see it is all about. I wear what i like and works for me.

[Micki_Finn]

I'll admit that I react when I see that sort of thing as well. I don't think it's judgement in my case. I do cringe but I think I have an over devolved sense of empathy so seeing that makes me feel what it would be like for ME to be out "half dressed" and it makes me viscerally uncomfortable.

[Tracy Irving]

So, I tend to project my dressing standards on other dresser. I'd like to be more than a man-in-a-dress. So was I wrong to judge this individuals choice?

You have every right to feel the way you do about this individual just as he has every right judge you. As long as you keep it to yourself there is no problem. It is when you try to take away freedom and force your standards on someone else I draw the line.

[Stacy Darling]

People judging each other in this day is no better than it has ever been, less time judging and more time spent helping/promoting.

As far as exposing a child to reality goes?

If I say anymore I shall be only quoting Lana Mae and Nigella!

Stacy!

[alwayshave]

I am interested in your fiances reaction to the child being exposed, as you implied you go out and she is accepting of your dressing. So she is ok with ither poeples children being exposed but not the crissdressers?

Wbdavid, when out with her we tend go to transfriendly bars and other venues which do not have anyone under 21. Though your point is well taken, at least by me.

[Ressie]

But many crossdressers are out during the day too. Some children are gonna be exposed to CDs/TGs while others won't until they're a little older. Should kids live an uber sheltered life? If so, that's how they become ignorant adults.

[~Joanne~]

I wish I could say that I don't judge but honestly, in one way or another we all do whether we like it or not. Half dressed will always make me cringe, I don't know why, but it does not that I see a lot of CD's around here. I agree that whether the child is subjected to it or not is the parents choice, like Ressie said: sheltering your kids to everything that is life will make them ignorant adults.

[Jenn A116]

Wrong to judge? Well, maybe. But then again, don't we all do it?

My wife and I will often comment to each other about people we see that have a nice look to them. We will also comment about those that apparently have no mirrors to check their appearance. ;)

[Stephanie47]

I see nothing wrong to judge a person's presentation. You've never made a comment of a man's attire when his butt crack is fully exposed because he is morbidly obese and wears ill fitting pants? Or his beer gut sticks out from under his tee shirt? No matter how much I may enjoy a nicely shaped woman, I do not think the young woman cashier at my local Target wearing a top with her boobs falling out is appropriate. I would not choose to not associate with a person because of his or her presentation. However, how a person does present may give rise to other issues that would cause me to limit my association.

Your wife's comment is not unusual. Just read the comments on this site. I don't know if a three year old child is able to process the issues surrounding cross dressing. This is an issue which needs to be settled by the parents. It's not necessary for a child to be exposed to something or someone to be raised without prejudice.

[Pat]

Yes, it is wrong to judge. Yes, it is natural to judge. We are all imperfect beings -- in no small part because we all have different definitions of perfection. I think judging is OK when you realize that what you're saying is that the other person's truth doesn't work for you. It becomes not OK when you extend past that to say the other person must be punished for having a truth different than yours. (Which you seem to have avoided doing, so no foul.)

[Aunt Kelly]

With respect, that's the wrong question. We can't not judge. Every day, every single decision we make, from the time we wake to the time we fall asleep again, involves judgement.
A better question might be something like, "Is it wrong for me to think poorly of the man in a dress?" To that question, I would answer "perhaps." It depends on why you disapprove. A lack of fashion sense or basic slovenliness? Those are fair game. Not comporting himself in the manner "we" think a cross dresser should? Maybe not so much. Yes, yes. I hear you. His presentation reflects poorly on the rest of us, it's true, but I am me and he is... well, whatever he's trying to be. If others judge me by the slovenly man in a dress, it's their mistake. I can whine about it and leave them with their prejudices, or I can do the best I can to show them that "we" are not all like that, that I am someone else, someone quite unlike that.

[Dana44]

I would say different strokes for different folks. Don't Judge lest you want to be judged. And for the kid, The kid knows his father and is probably good with that. One thing on kids though there is threads on that very subject. should they know or not. Read them and come to your own conclusion. But never ever down another person especially another one of us. And he may be a male comfortable in his dress.

[Paige Dehart]

Acceptance of ourselves and others is key. She is on a different journey than you. What she is comfortable with and how she chooses to present is different than you. Her choice in appearance is simply not to your standards. Nothing wrong with either choice.
As for the child he or she is learning acceptance of differences in others early on. So what is wrong with that? Think about it, a whole new generation that accepts people not based on what they dress or look like but on who they are inside, wouldn’t that be wonderful.

[Jodie_Lynn]

We are doing to them like the outside muggle world is doing to all of us! Acceptance in our world is key to our growth!

Hugs Lana Mae


This says it all!

In our broad community, here on the forums and in the great wide world, we have so many different ways to present; from the secret underdresser, to the man-in-a-dress (no, not using the acronym), to full on passable girls and every variant in between. As long as no one is doing anything immoral or illegal, how can we fault our peers for presenting as they themselves see fit?

We want to be able to express ourselves as we please, we must allow, without judgement, others to do the same.

[Territx]

No easy answers to all of this, as my immediate thought was not that they were a crossdresser, but they had lost a bet, etc. I just know that, at least to some degree, we all judge and are judged -- nothing will ever change that fact.

[Tracy Irving]

Yes, yes. I hear you. His presentation reflects poorly on the rest of us, it's true, but I am me and he is... well, whatever he's trying to be.

Aunt Kelly,
I like what you have to say. One question though. Is it possible he thinks your presentation reflects poorly on the rest of us? After all, you are just another beautiful person blending into a crowd and he is trying to be a man in a dress. While he is standing out now, if there were more like him, and that presentation were more commonplace, he would blend better. Some current fashion trends have men in skirts (designed for them though).

[Helen_Highwater]

The last time I went to a social gathering while I was fully enfemme I met up with someone who was in a dress, flats and not makeup or wig. She was totally at ease with herself and while at first I must admit to being slightly perplexed and also curious as to the reception she got when out amongst the muggles, I came to the conclusion that if it works for her who am I to judge. More power to her elbow.

As for having the child in the company of the 2 parents. If we want society to accept us then you can't start by shielding kids from these things. If you do then by implication you're saying this activity is wrong hence I'm hiding it from my child.

[Lorileah]

I don't like asparagus. I can't tell you not to have it but I don't like it.

I do judge. I judge based on my agenda nd if, in some manner, someone interferes with my agenda. I don't "get" some people's ways. I try and understand but if they make my life harder or make me work harder to reach my goals, I judge them.

In re: the child. Ain't my kid, and as long as they aren't raising the child to interfere with me, I am all for it. But I come from a generation where hatred and prejudice were "normal". I saw how people were (are by the way) treated for their skin color, their religious beliefs, their origin. Thank Gawd my parents instilled a more open mind in me. Even though my father has taken a 180 on prejudice, I maintain and hold an open mind

As long as they don't interfere with MY agenda for my life

[Teresa]

Jamie,
As much as I try I still can't come to terms with MIAD, I apologise to those who feel comfortable in that mode, but I just couldn't go out in that situation . I feel the mixed message it gives out causes confusion and misunderstanding so the looks and comments are an inevitable consequence .

I personally would prefer to keep CDing away from young children , not because what we do is wrong but I wonder if it's fair to confuse a child when it's growing up. OK they have to learn the ways of the World at some point but I would hate to be accused of subverting a child , they have to understand what it means before they are exposed to it . We do want acceptance but I don't feel it's right to use and possibly manipulate children to gain it .

I wonder if you feel you were judging and defending at the same time because you still have some carry over of the guilt and shame associated with what we do. If you weren't a CDer and the parent of that child how would you have seen the situation ?

[Tracy Irving]

Theresa,

Is it possible...

There are crossdressers who don't think they are a woman and don't want to become a woman. They don't even want to present as one (wig and makeup) because, when doing so, they feel the mixed message it gives out causes confusion and misunderstanding. After all, many on this forum have no problem admitting they could never pass as a GG.

I just want everyone to be happy doing as much or as little crossdressing as they want.

[Teresa]

Tracy,
It's fine to discuss it between members on the forum but we are considering what the public think and their reaction, that child my have witnessed some bad comments first hand , is it really fair on that child ? Is it almost using and abusing that child to make a point it may not understand .

[Jodie_Lynn]

Teresa, think back to a time when interracial couples were on the front lines of discrimination. Do you think that their children were spared hateful comments? Should those couples have hidden their relationships in order to spare their kids?

Or should we show our children that there are many types of expression, and that not everyone is going to like what others do and say?

[kimdl93]

Of course its fair to judge...and unavoidable...so long as we keep our opinions to ourselves. (And share with our SOs at our own risk).

It is also fair to ask oneself why and how we arrived at that judgement.

[AllieSF]

We seem to use judging someone with a broad brush. Look at it this way, I don't "care" for how that person is dressed, however, I am not judgemental and that person can live their own life as they deem appropriate for herself. It is regularly used as just a comparison to our likes and dislikes, and is not in anyway limiting what others thinks or do when we keep that opinion to ourselves. If we share with others the tendency is to try to convince them to agree with us versus letting them form their own opinion. If you use judging as in comparing, then that is what we all do everyday when we look at people, pick fruit from the bin, pick a movie. We cannot and should not require others to live, or present or exist under terms that we personally deem proper, because those are usually based on societal norms that have been proven wrong in many cases over the past thousands of years.

Regarding presenting wrongly and thus giving others like us a bad reputation, I have always stated that is pure BS. First, us as a group are a tiny fraction of the total population. Us in that group that actually go out in public to be seen and many times interacted with are a growing but still very small percentage of that. I.e. We are a blip that only show up in a small number (compared to the total number) of people on this planet or even where we live. Dress how you want, when you want and where you want as long as it is legal. Trampy people go to church and get looked down upon. Hell, they are there to spend time with their God or supreme being, not to impress nor satisfy the other people there supposedly there for the same reason.

Regarding having little children seeing us and even interacting with us, that is their parents decision. I personally believe that they should see and learn to interact with us when possible in order to see that we (everyone on this planet) come in all shapes, sizes, colors, languages and presentations, and most importantly, we all have the same right to be here and go about our lives. If we start limiting or restricting their view of the world to our own, they may end up just like their closed minded unaccepting parents, and then ... the basic problem of acceptance of all by all continues to wallow in the mud, and we will unnecessarily continue to have these "acceptance" discussions long into the future

[Nikki A.]

I may not agree with how he dressed and I would not go out like that, but if he is comfortable presenting like that who are we to say it is wrong. To me it is the wig that doesn't belong.

[Ressie]

As crossdressers we judge each other very much the way GGs judge each other. But the judgement is superficial, at first glance. Judging a book by it's cover so to speak. I have an initial thought with every CD I meet about what they're wearing, makeup, wig etc. Cheap wigs are easy to spot for example. This is actually prejudgement isn't it? I'm sure others have thoughts about my makeup or outfits but they're nice enough not to say anything!

We should strive not to be judgemental IMO. There's enough people out there that condemn others according to their appearance. Once you talk to someone that's different (i.e. another CD) and get to know them, you may find a very nice person that deserves respect no matter how they present their self. Sometimes not.

[docrobbysherry]

The way to get past that is to get to know the person you've judged poorly. :thumbsup:

I've met 100's of dressers. Some were minimal dressers, as u described. Once I got to know them, they seemed to be as "normal" and "reasonable" as the "dress to the 9's" dressers I've met!:battingeyelashes:

If everyone that judges us, including us, could meet and chat with that dresser we judged? I do believe we would mostly all be friends AND accepted in bathrooms around the country overnite!:D

[Aunt Kelly]

Aunt Kelly,
I like what you have to say. One question though. Is it possible he thinks your presentation reflects poorly on the rest of us?
I suppose it is possible, but it is not based on reality. The plain truth is that we (the TG community) are all considered an aberration by a great many people. Nothing typifies that better for them than the obviously male figure wearing a dress. That act has next to nothing in common with the TG person who is actually trying to present as female. It maybe a a valid argument that more MIAD's would "normalize" dresses for men, but male fashion choices have next to nothing to do with the transgendered. It does not follow, logically, that said normalization would be of benefit to us.

[Tracii G]

You may not agree with her presentation or the fact their child was with them but you don't have the right to judge plain and simple.
We all judge others to some extent but knowing when to keep our mouths shut is the key.
People these days don't have much decency so they open their big mouths and start trouble if you don't fit their mold.
Be the better person and just don't comment in a negative way.

[Pat]

As far as kids go, I wouldn't worry too much. I've dealt with hundreds of kids in theatrical and school settings and my (TS) girlfriend, who is a children's magician, has dealt with literally (and, yes, I mean literally) tens of thousands of kids over the years. Most kids seem to just accept it as yet another weird thing about grown-ups. They're used to not asking grown-ups to justify themselves. But once in a while someone will come ask one of us, "Are you a boy or a girl?" or words to that effect. I generally smile and say, "Actually I'm a little of both." and wait for a follow-on question. Generally all I get is "Oh." and the kid geos back to what they were doing. My girlfriend says "I was born a boy, but now I'm a girl." There's almost never any follow-up -- my sense is the kids just want confirmation that they understood the situation correctly. I think kids are naturally accepting because they're still learning how things are. They only get upset if their parents or a grown-up tell them they ought to be upset. ;)

[Tracy Irving]

Tracy,
It's fine to discuss it between members on the forum but we are considering what the public think and their reaction, that child my have witnessed some bad comments first hand , is it really fair on that child ? Is it almost using and abusing that child to make a point it may not understand .

It has been discussed on this forum how super perceptive children can be. You could just as easily be writing about the child seeing a man in a wig and makeup, witnessing some bad comments first hand. Why would a three year old child totally understand a man in a wig and makeup but would be used and abused if he took it off?

I know you are not suggesting that crossdressers need to stay home and hide in the closet. We are all free to be what we want.

Peace, love and understanding, Tracy.



It maybe a a valid argument that more MIAD's would "normalize" dresses for men, but male fashion choices have next to nothing to do with the transgendered. It does not follow, logically, that said normalization would be of benefit to us.

If there is one thing I learned on this forum it is that a man in a dress (MIAD) falls under the fransgender umbrella. With that said, male fashion choices to wear a dress could benefit the transgender community that identifies as a MIAD.

I do agree with you that said normalization would do less for those trying to present as female. But, as part of this all inclusive transgender umbrella, I would applaud their success!

[Becky Blue]

This is always a tricky subject and its nice in theory to say people shouldn't judge but the reality is (as many of you have already said) everyone judges. One the one hand people should be able to present themselves however they want within the law because that is what freedom is all about on the other hand I think that a half dresser is not great for our community as a whole. I posted a thread a while back about seeing a guy out in a dress with a beard and the negative response it got from the 5 'normal' people I was with who all agreed that there was nothing wrong with a person cross dressing but that they felt the 'bearded lady look ' was weird and unnecessary. I think that the majority of ordinary people seeing this person 'half dressed' would be negative and having a child with him/her would have made most people even more uncomfortable.

[Tracii G]

It all boils down to this yes you can do it but should you do it.
Or just because you can doesn't mean you should.

[Teresa]

Somehow I still feel that you are saying kids will accept what ever goes on around them without question, we can behave how we chose and wear what we want, no one is saying those kids also have rights, and are they being given the chance to air them ? Is it right to assume they are super perceptive only to find they are behaving badly at school because their homelife is totally confusing them ?

Going back to Jamie's original thread , that child may have been playing merry hell in the car because it didn't like the way it's dad was dressed and maybe some promised treat had pacified it.

Some recent news in the UK appears to be going to far , parents being very upset when they are asked what gender they want their children to enter school. Very few children at that age are even aware of gender , they are just kids , we should allow them to be so and grow up in their own time and not inflict an adult situation on them. They need our support at that time not use them to support our needs they don't understand, they have rights too !

[Tracy Irving]

on the other hand I think that a half dresser is not great for our community as a whole.

I didn't post on this site for over six months. One of the reasons was because of the tiny "crossdresser" umbrella that didn't approve of crossdressers. I always thought crossdressers were a part of the crossdressing community as a whole. Crossdressing soon became way more than crossdressing. I learned some people feel that we need to present as female and hide who we are with a wig and a painted face to fit in here. But, I am back and ready to get banned from this site because I am a crossdresser. I am not a half dresser. I don't wear half a bra, one thigh high and half a dress. I fully crossdress, mostly without a wig and makeup, and I don't feel like I am missing out on anything.

I realize I shake up this world when I challenge the status quo and get people to think about the other side. They probably want me to take another sabbatical, lol.

I really do wish everyone success and happiness with their crossdressing choices.

[Teresa]

Tracy,
You are a crossdresser, or as now labelled MIAD. That is fine, and you enjoy it . Those among us who are TG/TS don't understand the inbetween look.

We don't hide behind a wig and painted faces, it is an outward expression to the World of our inner feelings, OK maybe you don't understand that . Most of us out to the public get accepted almost without question , no we don't pass, but if we look convincing enough we will be left alone to be the females we wish to be.
I do MIAD at home because at the moment I'm still in a DADT situation and rushing to put makeup on and then rushing to take it off is a waste of time, but I don't like appearing in the inbetween look , if anyone sees me they are justified saying I look ridiculous, it just doesn't work for me when I go out because I don't look ridiculous when I'm fully dressed , it feels totally right and natural, I'm comfortable being seen fully dressed .

[alwayshave]

I didn't post on this site for over six months. One of the reasons was because of the tiny "crossdresser" umbrella that didn't approve of crossdressers. I always thought crossdressers were a part of the crossdressing community as a whole.

Tracy, I hope that you did not take my post as an attack on you personally. I felt bad for the way I thought, judging. Not my proudest moment I know, but it did make me think.

[Aunt Kelly]

Sigh...
This is the problem with labels, they don't work because they don't quite fit. A man in a dress, or a skirt, if you will, is cross dresser unless you call the skirt a kilt. Then it is just another male fashion statement. If we accept the premise that enough exposure to men in dresses will "normalize" it to just another fashion choice, i.e. not cross dressing.
I reject the notion that a MIAD is TG. He does not identify as female, is not trying to appear female. He is simply wearing what he pleases. That is just fine, of course, but the motivation is not the same, at all. I realize that I am generalizing rather broadly but as I said, labels fail. To be sure, some MIADs are motivated by genuinely TH feelings, but the single item of clothing does not define the person who wears it.

[Jodie_Lynn]

Somehow I still feel that you are saying kids will accept what ever goes on around them without question


But they do just that! Until they are shown another way. And even then, the majority stick to what they 'know to be true'.
Think of the children of bigots. Do you really think that Mummy & Daddy bigot don't teach their kids to be baby bigots?
Another: Children of abused/abusive parents are more likely to end up in abusive relationships. Why? Because they have grown up thinking that it is normal.
Another: Children of alcoholics/addicts ted to become alcoholics/addicts themselves, partly due to genetic disposition, but also because their home lives normalize the behaviors.

[Tracy Irving]

We don't hide behind a wig and painted faces,

A quick search of.the web asking the purpose of applying makeup is very revealing. Basically, two answers stand out. The first is to highlight features that already exist. As a man, it would not help to look more manly when the goal is just the opposite. The second is to alter ones appearance. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "hide" but it is all just semantics. Is not the purpose of beard cover to hide the blue tinge commonly found on a freshly shaven face? Other cosmetics can hide blemishes and regulate skin color for the next step. I totally understand you wanting to express your feelings through makeup and I don't think anyone here would want to deny you that right. But, when we strip it down, you are altering your appearance from looking like a man to trying to look like a woman.

Aunt Kelly,
Again you make too much sense. When I learned on here that we are either cisgender or transgender, and a crossdresser can't be cisgender, I was, like, what? I have always stated that I do not think I am a woman, I do not feel like a woman, I do not want to be a woman or even pretend to be one. I actually have no problems with my gender. I know I will.get blasted for this viewpoint but I would like to agree with you 100% when you reject the notion that a MIAD is transgendered. Thank you.

[Teresa]

Jodie,
I know what some of those descriptions mean , my father drank heavily and was a bully, and it did affect me , my rights were never given a thought as a child. I always vowed to do the opposite of the way he lived his life, that's is aside from my CDing issue . He died at 53 and no one missed him. My family think far more of me despite my CDing , they all know now but have never seen me. My decision was not to let them find out until they were adults and old enough to understand and deal with it . I stand by that , they needed us to support them I didn't use them to support me , they all respect me for that . Now I have their support when I need them, I stood up for and protected their rights, I didn't abuse and ignore them .

Tracy,
If you want to continue that analogy, it is therefore vain for a man to shave everyday, being clean shaven is not natural, perhaps it's a very small step in feminising ! I am altering my appearance to align with how I feel inside , it's a trait of AGP to me , I want to be seen and accepted as a woman , that's why MIAD doesn't work for me , it's a contradiction to the way I feel and look .

[Mirya]

a fellow cross dresser walks by in a long dark dress, wig, no makeup, five-o-clock shadow, sneakers (chucks), black socks and hairy legs.

How do you even know they were a crossdresser? Did you ask them? Maybe they're a non-binary individual and that's their way of dressing and living authentically. Some non-binary and genderqueer people dress in 'women's clothes' but do not shave at all - such as Jacob Tobia.

Not everyone who is assigned-male-at-birth (AMAB) needs to present as a stereotypical female. Maybe this person was dressing and presenting as their true non-binary/genderqueer selves. But instead you judged them as a crossdresser who isn't up to your standards. That's not cool.

[Georgette_USA]

I don't comment here that often anymore.

Back in the older ages (1970s), few CDs would do so publicly. And most at that time that I knew were older with some younger. As a transitioning TS, the older ones always talked of blending in and passing. Not a great time to be public about being TS or CD.

Since I have come back to the LGBT community I have had to reconsider presentation for others. Yes I do tend to judge but let others decide how and when they dress.

Some of the younger CDs do present very well, and they definitely pass in club or private settings. Some of the older tend to dress way to young or ****ty, but that is what they intend. I have seen quite a few that are NB or Gender Fluid or Gender Queer or non-confirming. I find their presentation interesting, not to my tastes, but that is their decision.

I see the same in the TG/TS population also. As they progress they do tend to go more to the blending phase. And quite a few do so very well.

As to the children, some of the families do expose them in a loving manner to all this. I think this is good for the future.

[faltenrock]

I was out at my favorite watering hole with my fiancee, which overlooks a street in DC with many bars, restaurants, and night clubs, so there are lots of people who walk along the street. It was early in the evening prior to dusk and a fellow cross dresser walks by in a long dark dress, wig, no makeup, five-o-clock shadow, sneakers (chucks), black socks and hairy legs.

I tend to dress very girly, always shave my face twice and wear makeup with beard cover and my legs have not had hair on them in more than a decade. So, I tend to project my dressing standards on other dresser. I'd like to be more than a man-in-a-dress. So was I wrong to judge this individuals choices?

Interestingly, the same women walked by again with her wife and maybe three year old child. This time my fiancee sees and is none to happy about this being exposed to the child. She is accepting of my dressing but did not like the exposure of the child to crossdressing. I told my fiancee that's the parents call. She disagreed.

So I was defending and judging at the same moment. I guess sometimes I confuse myself.

I agree, we tend to judge people by look and behavior.
However, I think we should not do that when we see anotherCD.

One question, do you also judge women by their looks?

[suzanne]

In your lifetime, how much have you been judged for your crossdresssing? For transgressing the holy gender norms of western civilization? And how did it feel? Do you really need to turn around and heap it on the next available person? That's how bullying is propagated.

What we really need is to support one another. Everyone in this forum is living in the margins because we dress in a way that is outside the usual social standards . It's inexcusable to further marginalize them for not measuring up to your standard. I'm very happy that you are so meticulous in putting your presentation together. I do the same in my own way. My style means I presentably coordinate my outfits and shoes, I wax my legs, and shave my face, but does not include wig, makeup or breastforms. I'm pretty sure, based on what you wrote, that you would judge me harshly because of what I omit relative to you. And we just don't need that kind of infighting if we are to continue to gain respect in the world.

[Becky Blue]

There are two distinct 'approval' issues.. there is what we ie the T Community think and then there is the broader 'normal' one... my opinion is that people in general don't like variation and many disapprove of us because they do not understand us. I think that a guy with hairy legs in a dress is likely to get less approval in the broader community than a dresser who has made an attempt to look as genuine is possible...

[SaraLin]

I would have been -um- uncomfortable about the person's presentation, since it doesn't line up with with anything I would do.
I'm also uncomfortable around body piercings (ears are OK, of course), lots of tattoos, goth, extreme biker, or "club kid" styles. They are outside my wheelhouse, and I'm never sure exactly how to react to whatever it is that they're saying.

Yes, I'd be more uncomfortable around the not-fully-dressed person than some of the others, since IMO, it tends to stir up negative emotions among the general populace - and that might well be easily extended to the whole T* spectrum.

I'm not saying that this person shouldn't/couldn't do whatever he/she wants - just how I would feel personally. If that's judging, so be it. I wouldn't say anything or do anything to interfere. It's not my place to do so.

About the child - about my only real concern would that when it gets a bit older, the poor kid could be subjected to bullying/teasing by other kids ..."Your daddy's a queer. He wears a dress. Nyah,nyah...." You get the drift. That would be my biggest fear.

[Krisi]

We all judge. It's human nature. We judge our food, we judge cars and yes, we judge other people. We judge people (and things) by our own standards and experience.

Is it wrong? No, you can't help judging, it's human nature. It's when to take action based on your judgment that it can become wrong. It's OK to take action if you feel your steak is overdone, it's OK to slow down or speed up a car that looks like it may fall apart or is being driven by a drunk or someone on a cell phone.

It's OK to look away or walk away from someone you feel is dressed inappropriately, but it's not OK to say something to them or call attention to them. It is OK to talk to your wife o4 friends about it if the person can't hear you.

[SheriM]

Lets not get too confused with what our society says/thinks with what we think. And lets not confuse what we LIKE with what we think is wrong. I don't like to see a man in a dress but it doesn't offend me. I like to see a beautiful shapely woman and will not apologize for it. My likes/dislikes may not be the same as yours. They are only feelings, unless we try to impose them on others. Sure, exposing a child to a MIAD is probably in a grey area but unless the MIAD is hurting, abusing or imposing his will on others, it is his business, not mine. Lets live and let live. Lets all get along with each other.

[BrendaPDX]

I think is's natural to be at least a little judgmental, it's what you do with it that counts.

[Georgina]

There is nothing wrong with a man wearing a dress. What you have to say about it is your opinion not a judgment.

[Krisi]

"There is nothing wrong with a man wearing a dress"

Well, that's an opinion not shared by the general public. I hope you realize that.

[NicoleScott]

"Judge" can have two meanings.
If you mean "determine", have at it.
If you mean "condemn", reflect on your authority and exercise restraint.

[ellbee]

Not everyone who is assigned-male-at-birth (AMAB) needs to present as a stereotypical female. Maybe this person was dressing and presenting as their true non-binary/genderqueer selves. But instead you judged them as a crossdresser who isn't up to your standards. That's not cool.

I agree.


And BTW, maybe that person doesn't agree with those who get all dolled-up & present as totally traditionally female -- that they think it's a bit odd or something.


Hey, we all have our different reasons & different tastes for doing what we do. :)

[sometimes_miss]

If someone is clearly a man in a dress, no matter of additional make up, shaving, correct accessorizing, being fashionable, etc., is going to change how most of the public is going to think of him. So perhaps, knowing that, he just went ahead and went out as a 'man in a dress'.