That watershed moment for Suzy

[suzy1]

I remember Eddie Izzard once saying ‘I am a lesbian trapped in a mans body’ The moment I heard him say that I thought, hang on, he is talking about me! Of course I should have realized it all along but I am not the sharpest eye liner pencil in the make up bag.

It was a sort of watershed moment for me and felt rather nice at the time. it was important to me. Any confusion about what I am left me on that day.
We are all just normal people in our own ways girls but at the same time we are all beautiful and unique.

[LilSissyStevie]

Now you've gone and opened up that can of worms.:eek:

One thing I've learned from the gender/sexual orientation police here is that one can be a woman and have a penis but lesbians never have penises. Gender is subjective but sexual orientation is objective. I don't have the faintest idea how the logic works here. I think "male lesbian" is a perfectly good metaphor for how I felt when I first heard it. On further reflection, I don't think it exactly works in my case but it works to a great extent.

[Rita Leigh]

Suzy, while I feel like a lesbian in an old male body, I think having a penis could spoil the relationship for many non-trans lesbians. The option is always available for an artificial penis if desired but I for one would want a vagina and a rectum for maximum play...Rita Leigh

[Ariana225]

I think it's a perfect description for me as well! What better way to put it? A heterosexual crossdresser that not only adores women but adores themselves as an, at least a part time, woman.

Gender has multiple spectrums. So if you want to identify as a male lesbian, go for it! There is no political correctness when it comes to labeling yourself, only if you mislabel others.

[carhill2mn]

It is interesting how one comment from someone can have such an impact on another. I am happy for you to have reached this understanding.

[suzy1]

Now you've gone and opened up that can of worms.:eek:


Why? I am only talking about me. I think and feel like a woman, I would like to be one and I am attracted to women. If anybody reads more into this then I'm sorry.



It is interesting how one comment from someone can have such an impact on another. I am happy for you to have reached this understanding.

Thank you my friend.

[Robertacd]

Translesbian:

Being, or pertaining to being, both a trans woman and attracted to women (lesbian).

BTW: I did not make this up, but found Translesbien used and accepted on many transgender support sights.

[Tahoegurl]

I think it is awesome that are OK with who you are in your place in this life. I think that we are often caught up in a search to find what label we need to fit. I don't want a label and I am not sure if there is one that would match me.

[Sarah Doepner]

And I like a quote from another performer when I'm finally dressed and ready to head out the door. "I love it when a plan comes together." Hannibal Smith on The A Team. ;-)

[Jackiefl]

Here we go with labels again!

[Teresa]

Suzy,
I fully understand Eddie's comment, like you I totally relate to it.

The first time I used the term male lesbian on the forum I was slammed hard with comments saying there's no such thing and I must use bi-gender instead .

I still feel the term is correct for my thoughts on CDing and the need to share it with a woman .

[Nikki A.]

Suzy I'm perfectly fine with your thought process and to be honest I've used that term myself to describe myself also.

[suzy1]

Suzy I'm perfectly fine with your thought process and to be honest I've used that term myself to describe myself also.

Thank you Nicki and you other girls. Personalty I don't give a fig for labels. What I said describes me that's all.



Suzy,
I fully understand Eddie's comment, like you I totally relate to it.

The first time I used the term male lesbian on the forum I was slammed hard with comments saying there's no such thing and I must use bi-gender instead .
.


In the past I used to get a bit miffed when I was 'slammed hard' for my comments. Now Suzy is back with a thicker skin. :)

Thank you Teresa

[karenph]

you go girl!:)

[suzy1]

you go girl!:)

Hug from Suzy.

[Krisi]

I doubt you will ever find a lesbian who will go along with that "lesbian trapped in a man's body thing".

A lesbian is a woman who has sexual desires for other women. You can't be one if you are not a woman. It doesn't work that way.

[Teresa]

Krisi,
Sometimes you have to accept some of us have a different mindset , these feelings are genuine and not a whim . I repeatedly say it helps to go back and think how our CDing started, from the age of 8-9 years I know exactly how I felt inside , the problem is it's taken me far too long to understand it . My gender counsellor understood the term and recognised it as a reality.

You often say you are just a CDer and call it a hobby , some of us have far more going on and it's far from a hobby .

[Carole]

Welcome back Suzy, you have been missed from the forum. I too describe myself as a male lesbian; whilst I agree with Krisi that no female lesbian would entertain us in a sexual relationship, it describes me, for were I too go all the way with transition I would have no interest whatsoever with having a relationship with a male partner.
Teresa is right, for some of us this lifestyle is not a hobby but a partime/fulltime way of life.

[Helen_Highwater]

"‘I am a lesbian trapped in a mans body"

Isn't this just a way of saying as I crossdresser I'm not gay? I associate or define myself more on the female spectrum but have no interest in a sexual relationship with a male.

[karenph]

Helen - good observation.

[Megan G]

Sometimes you have to accept some of us have a different mindset , these feelings are genuine and not a whim .

Sorry Teresa but Krisi is correct, you cannot be a lesbian trapped in a male body. It just does not work.....unless your claiming to be a TS woman that has not began/ completed transition. And if that was the case I'm 99.9% sure just saying that would cause your GD to spike. Sorry. It's actually pretty simple to understand.

Lesbian= woman that is attracted to women.
CD'er that is attracted to women= heterosexual

I agree with Krisi...I think your going to have a hard time finding any lesbian that can or will agree with that....



You often say you are just a CDer and call it a hobby , some of us have far more going on and it's far from a hobby.

But yet you use words like "dressing", "lifestyle" and others that I could quote that not only imply hobby but also imply a choice. For someone that says they have a different mindset, you need to update your terminology.

My "lifestyle" involves driving my son all over the country for hockey, it involves enjoying time with my friends and family, enjoying the outdoors....... gender identity is not a lifestyle!

And as for the word "Dressing", I'm sorry but if your claiming to be more than a CD'er (not that there is anything wrong with that) than you need to learn to drop that and realize that your "dressing" is just you being you and it's just wearing clothes...

[Tracii G]

I think for many here it is about the clothes and nothing more.
No gender dysphoria issues of any kind.

[phili]

Wikipedia has some good additions to terminology in their discussion on transsexuals
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexual
- esp Gynephilic or androphilic- meaning attracted to females or males, and notes that anyone of any gender identity can feel either or both. That said, male lesbian is understandable, and some generous minded lesbians would be ok with the terminology. The point of labels is to give a sense of who we feel we are, and considering the messy nature of gender and sexuality, if we allow for lack of precision we can be supportive even if not entirely clear about the emaninglll

[Teresa]

Phili,
Thanks for pointing out the definitions .
This point came up before of telling people their inner feelings are wrong, we know what drives us and we know what we are naturally attracted to .

Megan,
We use words and definitions others are accustomed to , I use the word dressing as an outward sign to show the World how I feel inside.My lifestyle is about to change in big way when I move into my own home, I can finally adopt the lifestyle you talk of.

Whatever terms I use it's always been far from a hobby, hobbies don't cause the turmoil and heartache CDing can bring .

Maybe you should drop a line to Eddie Izzard too to tell him he's talking BS .

[Megan G]

I have no desire to to drop Mr. Izzard a line as he is not the one on this forum claiming to be a male lesbian....(omg that just sounds so ridiculous).

So, I did do a google search looking this up and do you know how many peer reviewed papers by professionals I found that referenced "male lesbian"......NONE

Did I find any reputable LGBT organizations that had this classified in their list of gender identities or sexual preferences.....NOPE

Did I find anything that explained the term "male lesbian" from anything that could be considered a reputable source.....HELL NO

What I DID FIND however was a bunch of angry lesbians responding to someone that claimed to be a "male lesbian"..... and the common claim....

Lesbians cannot have a penis....

So just saying "male lesbian" is insulting an entire demographic.

And just a closing note, Mr. Izzard now identifies as transgender, but when he elaborates further he shows that he is confused on the subject..

[Leslie Mary S]

I understand most of this stuff you all are discussing but when it all comes down to it, there is but one label that fits me perfect.
That label is

[kimdl93]

We give things names to convey meaning. Sometimes we combine words to convey more precise meaning... like "water" and "fall" put together to concisely describe a place where a river's flow plummets abruptly from one elevation to another.

Male lesbian is a bit different, in that its not a literal description, like waterfall. It falls into that murky area of poetic license...a term meant to evoke the inherent contradictions of meaning between male and lesbian. Its not science - it expressionism. And yet, it has meaning as a metaphor. Imagine a person spending an entire life feeling not entirely male, or not very male at all, and like most of society, assuming that being trans means gay. Then gradually, or perhaps suddenly, there is a realization that, I want to live differently...less masculine, perhaps mostly feminine, but at the same time continue to be attracted to women. The short hand certainly didn't originate with Eddy Izard.

I doubt he meant it as an insult or intrusion on lesbian identity.

[GeorgeA]

Phili
I think you formulated it well. I was formulating a reply in my head that a male lesbian can be a meaningful description, perhaps clinically not correct, but it conveys the meaning. Being a miad I only have an outside observation as to how these people may feel about themselves. A person who perceives himself a woman is attracted to women, therefore a lesbian.

[ricki4678]

we are all beautiful and unique.

Bingo. I completely agree

[suzy1]

So just saying "male lesbian" is insulting an entire demographic.
.

I did not say 'male lesbian' I simply said 'I feel like a lesbian trapped in a male body' I was just describing how I feel. nothiong more.
If others here have a problem with this or read into my coment more than was implied then its their problem, not mine.
I say this with respect for all of you and your right to your opinions.

Hugs all around girls.

[kimdl93]

And there is nothing wrong with that. The key words are "trapped in a male body"...and reaching that level of self awareness is quite something. The rest of what you said really adds further emotional detail to the identity of the person trappped in that body.

[LilSissyStevie]

It was only a matter of time before the gender Stasi showed up to tell us how we were allowed to express ourselves. There are always going to be those who try to bully their way through life by being offended by this or that even if they have to get the vapors on behalf of groups of which they are not a member. Nobody owns the word "lesbian" not even lesbians. Plenty of GGs get offended by anything to do with CD/TG/TS for appropriating "their" identity and frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn!

I notice that many of the same people that object to the idea of male lesbians also insist that there is "no relationship between gender identity and sexual orientation." If that is true, I don't see what the problem is. Gender: male; sexual orientation: lesbian. Since there is no relationship, there is no contradiction. LOL! That's not how I would use the term. I would only use it metaphorically where contradictions are allowed.

Back in the '80s psychologist Brian Gilmartin used term "male lesbian" (N.B.,also metaphorically) to describe a certain class of love-shy males in his book Shyness & Love: Causes, Consequences, and Treatment. His concept was somewhat different than what has been suggested here in that it excluded the so-called TG spectrum.

http://www.angelfire.com/ab6/polepino/Chapter05/Malelesbian.html

[suzy1]

he is not the one on this forum claiming to be a male lesbian....(omg that just sounds so ridiculous).
.

I did not claim to be a male lesbian?

A lesbian is a 'female' I am a 'male' Saying there are male lesbians is like saying there are a married bachelors!

[Teresa]

Suzy,
The important point is you were being honest with how you feel, and how Eddie Izzard's comment helped come to decision about your CDing lifestyle. Maybe I read it slightly wrong but I was being honest with how I feel about that situation, because some have those feelings or inclinations doesn't make it wrong . We are all different and the whole subject is very complex, as long as we can be happy in the life we chose to live is the important point, and you appear to have found the sweet spot , thanks for sharing it with us.